There is a difference between commentaries of the Qur'an and Hadiths. Elevated souls such as Mowlana Rumi were able to confirm this Prophetic miracle through their own spiritual experiences.swamidada wrote: As I mentioned before, the Hadith in which split of moon is mentioned is a week (dhaeef hadith). It was introduced around 100+ years after demise of Prophet.
Are SAU KIRUA AND BHAWAN BODH in allegorical forms? Ginanic words speak for themselves. Ginans are poetical literature. One must understand the literal meaning. The parts of Momin Chetamani which you mentioned are a clear message. The converted followers of Syed Imam Shah were not highly educated having masters in Ginanic literature to understand allegories in Ginans!kmaherali wrote:Ginans are allegorical and hence they have many layers of meaning. Do not impose your literalist outlook on them.swamidada wrote: Let examine part 522;
Does souls reaching AMRAPURI really need big houses made of golden bricks and diamonds with precious mud of Kasturi??
The discussion is about Insaanul Kamil and not the ability of any person to reach original abode. It is an open field, any person be Sunni or Shia, Muslim or non Muslim, Jew or Christian, Hindu or Bhudh can reach the highest abode. Let me clarify my point by a paragraph from Wikipedia.kmaherali wrote:Usul-e-din Farman of MSMS (Dar es Salaam 1899)swamidada wrote: In Shia Islamic terminology, Insaanul Kamil is Prophet Muhammad or Mowla Ali.
"The ability to reach man's original abode is not confined to Hazarat Ali’s progeny. Whoever is determined enough will be able to attain the goal."
According to the Indian Muslim scholar Abdullah Yusuf Ali, the moon will split again when the day of judgment approaches. He says that the verses may also have an allegorical meaning.kmaherali wrote:There is a difference between commentaries of the Qur'an and Hadiths. Elevated souls such as Mowlana Rumi were able to confirm this Prophetic miracle through their own spiritual experiences.swamidada wrote: As I mentioned before, the Hadith in which split of moon is mentioned is a week (dhaeef hadith). It was introduced around 100+ years after demise of Prophet.
Some Ginans can be interpreted allegorically and others can be literal. Obviously one needs to apply intelligence as well. Obviously we cannot have physical entities in heaven. Hence allegorical interpretation is required.swamidada wrote: Are SAU KIRUA AND BHAWAN BODH in allegorical forms? Ginanic words speak for themselves. Ginans are poetical literature. One must understand the literal meaning. The parts of Momin Chetamani which you mentioned are a clear message. The converted followers of Syed Imam Shah were not highly educated having masters in Ginanic literature to understand allegories in Ginans!
Yes anyone who makes sincere efforts can become Insan al Kameel by becoming one with God. That is the potential and purpose of a human being.swamidada wrote: The discussion is about Insaanul Kamil and not the ability of any person to reach original abode. It is an open field, any person be Sunni or Shia, Muslim or non Muslim, Jew or Christian, Hindu or Bhudh can reach the highest abode. Let me clarify my point by a paragraph from Wikipedia.
It depends upon whom you trust. I would place more faith on Rumi's interpretation because it is based and confirmed by his own spiritual experiences.swamidada wrote: According to the Indian Muslim scholar Abdullah Yusuf Ali, the moon will split again when the day of judgment approaches. He says that the verses may also have an allegorical meaning.
In 2010, NASA Lunar Science Institute (NLSI) staff scientist Brad Bailey said, "No current scientific evidence reports that the Moon was split into two (or more) parts and then reassembled at any point in the past
Al Insaanull Kamil is vicegerent of God to guide people, where as becoming one with God is optional for public, any one can make sincere efforts to merge with God.kmaherali wrote:Yes anyone who makes sincere efforts can become Insan al Kameel by becoming one with God. That is the potential and purpose of a human being.swamidada wrote: The discussion is about Insaanul Kamil and not the ability of any person to reach original abode. It is an open field, any person be Sunni or Shia, Muslim or non Muslim, Jew or Christian, Hindu or Bhudh can reach the highest abode. Let me clarify my point by a paragraph from Wikipedia.
MSMS says in his Usuledin Farman:
"You must keep on asking yourself: "What is God and why cannot I become one with Him?" You should have such aspirations, and you should meditate over what I am saying. For instance, Jesus became one with God. He was in love with the HAQIQAT. As a result, his nature became united with that of God."
Let me quote a sentence from one of your previous posts.kmaherali wrote:Some Ginans can be interpreted allegorically and others can be literal. Obviously one needs to apply intelligence as well. Obviously we cannot have physical entities in heaven. Hence allegorical interpretation is required.swamidada wrote: Are SAU KIRUA AND BHAWAN BODH in allegorical forms? Ginanic words speak for themselves. Ginans are poetical literature. One must understand the literal meaning. The parts of Momin Chetamani which you mentioned are a clear message. The converted followers of Syed Imam Shah were not highly educated having masters in Ginanic literature to understand allegories in Ginans!
AZAZIL was knowledgeable had read 'chhatrees crore kitaba'. Why was he fallen from grace? God had told him not to pray or prostrate in front of any one but Me. When God ordered him to prostrate Adam, he argued with God saying, Sir before you told me not to prostrate in front any one and I abide by your order. You are my Master and not this statute of Adam made of clay. Azazil was in immense love with God that's why he refused.kmaherali wrote:We have an example of highly read Azazil who did not understand the mysteries despite his knowledge.swamidada wrote: Are SAU KIRUA AND BHAWAN BODH in allegorical forms? Ginanic words speak for themselves. Ginans are poetical literature. One must understand the literal meaning. The parts of Momin Chetamani which you mentioned are a clear message. The converted followers of Syed Imam Shah were not highly educated having masters in Ginanic literature to understand allegories in Ginans!
It is optional but possible for anyone, hence anyone can perfection and become Imsaan al Kameel. Not restricted to one family only!swamidada wrote: Al Insaanull Kamil is vicegerent of God to guide people, where as becoming one with God is optional for public, any one can make sincere efforts to merge with God.
He wrote them as allegorical expression of happiness that can be attained through practice of faith. What is wrong with luring followers to practice their faith and attain happiness of freedom?swamidada wrote: When there are no physical entities in Heaven as you wrote, then how come Syed Saheb quoted them. Obviously to lure followers by bribing them. In this world you got one but in Heaven you will get 50.
Azazil did not want any one should come in between him and God. He considered Adam as a villain. He did not want any one should share love with God. He was completely merged in love of God.kmaherali wrote:How can you disobey someone whom you love?swamidada wrote: Azazil was in immense love with God that's why he refused.
Attain happiness of freedom or freedom of playing with 50 beauties. To day, why not some Mukhi or Missionary give such kind of glad tidings, may be there is no such golden house left in paradise.kmaherali wrote:What is wrong with luring followers to practice their faith and attain happiness of freedom?swamidada wrote: When there are no physical entities in Heaven as you wrote, then how come Syed Saheb quoted them. Obviously to lure followers by bribing them. In this world you got one but in Heaven you will get 50.
Do you consider Prophet Muhammad and Mowla Ali as Insaanul Kamil?kmaherali wrote:It is optional but possible for anyone, hence anyone can perfection and become Imsaan al Kameel. Not restricted to one family only!swamidada wrote: Al Insaanull Kamil is vicegerent of God to guide people, where as becoming one with God is optional for public, any one can make sincere efforts to merge with God.
When one is completely merged in God, there is no more fear left or any pride. There is total submission and no room for nafarmani.swamidada wrote: He was completely merged in love of God.
No need to keep repeating such glad tidings. There are always there and the golden house is always available for those who follow the path:swamidada wrote: Attain happiness of freedom or freedom of playing with 50 beauties. To day, why not some Mukhi or Missionary give such kind of glad tidings, may be there is no such golden house left in paradise.
What worldly goodies have to do with spiritual world.kmaherali wrote:No need to keep repeating such glad tidings. There are always there and the golden house is always available for those who follow the path:swamidada wrote: Attain happiness of freedom or freedom of playing with 50 beauties. To day, why not some Mukhi or Missionary give such kind of glad tidings, may be there is no such golden house left in paradise.
ejee sonaanee i(n)ttaddee ne rupaanaa tha(m)bhajee
saav kasturee keraa gaaraajee................................7
The bricks are of gold and the pillars are of silver. The plaster is of pure musk.
ejee evaa evaa mohol apanne saahebe upaayaajee
karannee kamaavo to e ghar paamojee..........................8
Such are the mansions our Lord has built. Earn good deeds so that you may earn such an abode.
Let me give an example. There was a boy friend and a girl friend. Deep in love with each other. Then there came other boy. Girl was inclined to other boy. The first one thought she promised with me, now she has turned to other. KIYA HUVA TERA WOH WAIDA. Hence first boy became enemy of other. It is a love story. Azazil was in deep love with God and did not want to share his love.kmaherali wrote:When one is completely merged in God, there is no more fear left or any pride. There is total submission and no room for nafarmani.swamidada wrote: He was completely merged in love of God.
jee ajaajeel feerashtaa buzarag kaheeye
ane budheeva(n)t kaheeye tesaa
chhatrees karodd keetaabaa paddeeyaa
pann bheetar bhed na paayaa..............illaahee............6
The angel Azazil is regarded as very honoured and is also considered to be very intelligent.
He read and studied thirty six crore books but did not realise the essence of the interior (soul, heart).
Learning without humility is destructive.
Yes they will have the spiritual status of the Prophet and Mowla Ali, but they will not declare themselves as such nor will they be recognized as such. Only Mowla Ali can function as the Imam.swamidada wrote: Mean all other ones equivalent to Prophet and Mowla Ali !!
These are not worldly goodies but are symbolic of spiritual goodies which do not have expression in human language and hence must be expressed using symbols.swamidada wrote: What worldly goodies have to do with spiritual world.
KARAN(N)I KAMAAVO TO EVA GHAR PAAMO JI
IT is completely to lure and bribe followers. It is like a mother who tells her son, finish your school home work I shall give you lollipop.
This analogy does not work for the relation between God and Azazil. Of course God cannot love one person only. God was not abandoning or diminishing his love for Azazil when he asked him to recognize Adam's dignity.swamidada wrote:[
Let me give an example. There was a boy friend and a girl friend. Deep in love with each other. Then there came other boy. Girl was inclined to other boy. The first one thought she promised with me, now she has turned to other. KIYA HUVA TERA WOH WAIDA. Hence first boy became enemy of other. It is a love story. Azazil was in deep love with God and did not want to share his love.
Quran explained about DARAJAAT (grades, degrees, status) amongst people and Prophets. No one is equivalent to status of Prophet Muhammad or Mowla Ali, and no one dare to claim status in comparison to these highest entities. They can not declare such status because declaration will come from Allah and not by themselves.kmaherali wrote:Yes they will have the spiritual status of the Prophet and Mowla Ali, but they will not declare themselves as such nor will they be recognized as such.swamidada wrote: Mean all other ones equivalent to Prophet and Mowla Ali !!
One Bhartaar+50 Huru(n)+500 sons +500 Maliks, a real big house will be needed to accommodate all of them. Can Bhartaar afford expenses of mortgage, property tax, utility bills, grocery, other over heads, or these expenses will be covered by Treasury of God!!kmaherali wrote:These are not worldly goodies but are symbolic of spiritual goodies which do not have expression in human language and hence must be expressed using symbols.swamidada wrote: What worldly goodies have to do with spiritual world.
KARAN(N)I KAMAAVO TO EVA GHAR PAAMO JI
IT is completely to lure and bribe followers. It is like a mother who tells her son, finish your school home work I shall give you lollipop.
If Azazil disobeyed God so Adam did also. Adam also disobeyed command of God residing in Paradise. Now where you draw the line?kmaherali wrote:This analogy does not work for the relation between God and Azazil. Of course God cannot love one person only. God was not abandoning or diminishing his love for Azazil when he asked him to recognize Adam's dignity.swamidada wrote:[
Let me give an example. There was a boy friend and a girl friend. Deep in love with each other. Then there came other boy. Girl was inclined to other boy. The first one thought she promised with me, now she has turned to other. KIYA HUVA TERA WOH WAIDA. Hence first boy became enemy of other. It is a love story. Azazil was in deep love with God and did not want to share his love.
If a person is totally devoted to and is in love with God, he must submit to His command unconditionally.
That is what I have said as well . No one can claim to be the Prophet or the Imam. That does not preclude one to become their spiritual status as per the statements of MSMS that I alluded to earlier. Becoming one with God is attainable and is the goal and purpose of life.swamidada wrote:They can not declare such status because declaration will come from Allah and not by themselves.