Yes of course, that's why we also read the Mathnavi although Rumi was not an Ismaili.swamidada wrote: According to you this means Bhuj Nirinjin is applicable to Ismailis also being as sufis, as MSMS in one of his Farmans said,"TAMEY SUFISM MA DIL LAGARO....".
can humans BE God?
The role of the Pirs is to show us the way to the Imam. Hence he also shows us how to pray to the Imam. The Dua is composed by the Pir for example.swamidada wrote:In one of your posts, you wrote,"Pirs are already merged with Noor e Imamat", But Pir has also said," HUM TUM DONU SAIYAA(N) EEK HAI(N), HUM SU(N) PARDAH KHOL", Means still there is curtain.
Hence in the Ginans he will express himself sometimes as a person who has seen God or sometimes as a seeker
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swamidada_2
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There is a Farman in which MSMS asked followers to study the philosophy of Mathnavi, though Rumi was not an Ismaili. BUT Pir Sadardin is an Ismaili Pir why not followers of Imam should read, study, reflect, and follow Bhuj Nirinjin.kmaherali wrote:Yes of course, that's why we also read the Mathnavi although Rumi was not an Ismaili.swamidada wrote: According to you this means Bhuj Nirinjin is applicable to Ismailis also being as sufis, as MSMS in one of his Farmans said,"TAMEY SUFISM MA DIL LAGARO....".
Did present Imam discarded Bhun Nirinjin and asked murids not to read or recite Bhuj?
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swamidada_2
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kmaherali wrote:The current Dua is not composed by any Satadari Pir but by Professor Jawad Al Musqati (not a Pir).swamidada wrote:In one of your posts, you wrote,"Pirs are already merged with Noor e Imamat", But Pir has also said," HUM TUM DONU SAIYAA(N) EEK HAI(N), HUM SU(N) PARDAH KHOL", Means still there is curtain. The Dua is composed by the Pir for example.
Several people from Syria were involved in the composition of the new Dua, they even claim they composed under instruction of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah and Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah approved. Syria Council was at that time under Pakistan Council so it is understandable that people there tried to take credit for the large contribution of the Syrian. Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah was Imam and Pir of Ismailis at that time, the task of approving the Dua came to him oviously.
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swamidada_2
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I have objection that you discard Bhuj Nirinjin as a Ginan/Grunth. Your understanding is that it may not be authored by Pir Sadardin. You are following Dr. Ali Asani.kmaherali wrote:Where have I said that we should discard Buj Niranjan? On the contrary have quoted verses from it to make some points.swamidada wrote: Did present Imam discarded Bhun Nirinjin and asked murids not to read or recite Bhuj?
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swamidada_2
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Professor Jawad Al Musqati was fluent in Arabic. He was a professor at University of Karachi, when he was given task of current Dua by MSMS. IT IS NO WHERE DOCUMENTED OR HEARD INVOLVEMENT OF SYRIANS. But it may be possibility that final draft was discussed with Syrians for Arabic text (double check).kmaherali wrote:In its final stages, it was discussed, finalized and authorized by MSMS at a hotel in Cairo.swamidada wrote: The current Dua is not composed by any Satadari Pir but by Professor Jawad Al Musqati (not a Pir).
Now important thing, apart from last sentence of Sajadah, When current Dua first introduced in Pakistan in 1960, there were some grammar mistakes which were corrected silently when a person from Pakistan indicated to President of then Ismailia Association (this is confirmed because he told me). Also, after some time few words and couple of sentences were removed and new induced. Beside this, raising hands in two parts were redirected.
Soul Medicine
Hi Karim,
For thousands of years, there have existed individuals who are capable of doing seemingly impossible things. Borderline miraculous feats that the rest of the world is unable to do.
From a group of monks in Tibet who are able to stand outside naked in sub-zero temperatures for days... to a terminally ill cancer patient who spontaneously heals themselves...
How is this possible? What hidden forces are they tapping into?
Today, I’d like to share a powerful “reality hack” I was taught a number of years ago that changed my life. It happened while we were filming a sage elder for a documentary we were making - and his words stopped us all in our tracks.
The short video below is the first segment of a free 3-part series that I’ve created for you called Inner Alchemy. These are some of the most transformative personal practices I’ve ever experienced.
Click Here To Watch Video 1 Now
https://inneralchemy.thesacredscience.com/day-1-int/
Hi Karim,
For thousands of years, there have existed individuals who are capable of doing seemingly impossible things. Borderline miraculous feats that the rest of the world is unable to do.
From a group of monks in Tibet who are able to stand outside naked in sub-zero temperatures for days... to a terminally ill cancer patient who spontaneously heals themselves...
How is this possible? What hidden forces are they tapping into?
Today, I’d like to share a powerful “reality hack” I was taught a number of years ago that changed my life. It happened while we were filming a sage elder for a documentary we were making - and his words stopped us all in our tracks.
The short video below is the first segment of a free 3-part series that I’ve created for you called Inner Alchemy. These are some of the most transformative personal practices I’ve ever experienced.
Click Here To Watch Video 1 Now
https://inneralchemy.thesacredscience.com/day-1-int/
This thread is not about anyone claiming to be God. It is about the potential and capacity of an individual soul and what can be attained by him.swamidada wrote:In the above article there is no mention of a man claiming himself God. Essence of God is in every particle. Inside every person there is inner world, sleeping in subconscious, one has to awaken it.
This is just the first part which is an introduction. Wait for the other two parts which will follow soon.
The title of thread is 'can humans be God' of course NOT, they can claim to be god with small 'g' but not with capital 'G'. In explanation you used two words potential and capacity means a human can claim to be God. Historically those who claimed to be God their heads were in their feet and not stayed on their shoulders.kmaherali wrote:This thread is not about anyone claiming to be God. It is about the potential and capacity of an individual soul and what can be attained by him.swamidada wrote:In the above article there is no mention of a man claiming himself God. Essence of God is in every particle. Inside every person there is inner world, sleeping in subconscious, one has to awaken it.
This is just the first part which is an introduction. Wait for the other two parts which will follow soon.
There is a huge difference between becoming God and claiming to be God. One can of course become God but it is wrong to claim to be God.swamidada wrote: The title of thread is 'can humans be God' of course NOT, they can claim to be god with small 'g' but not with capital 'G'. In explanation you used two words potential and capacity means a human can claim to be God. Historically those who claimed to be God their heads were in their feet and not stayed on their shoulders.
One who claims to be God sure his intention is to be God therefore he claims to be God. Nimrod and Pharaoh did, what happened!!?kmaherali wrote:There is a huge difference between becoming God and claiming to be God. One can of course become God but it is wrong to claim to be God.swamidada wrote: The title of thread is 'can humans be God' of course NOT, they can claim to be god with small 'g' but not with capital 'G'. In explanation you used two words potential and capacity means a human can claim to be God. Historically those who claimed to be God their heads were in their feet and not stayed on their shoulders.
You wrote;
One can of course become God but it is wrong to claim to be God.
You are trapped in your words.
If a person is unwilling to declare himself as God, then what is use of claiming to be God. What is the use of this exercise to become God. Insane person has hidden horns.
There is no trap at all! To elevate yourself and to become fana fi allah is the purpose of our existence, through which we attain peace and a complete understanding of the purpose and meaning of our existence.swamidada wrote: You are trapped in your words.
If a person is unwilling to declare himself as God, then what is use of claiming to be God. What is the use of this exercise to become God. Insane person has hidden horns.
However as indicated by our present Imam, we must keep that understanding to ourselves and not declare publicly. It can create misunderstanding especially amongst those who do not have background in esotericism or Sufism.
I am not against the concept of fana fi Allah. My objection is that the person who had or has union with grace of God can not claim to be God. In the words of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah a true Momin commits at least 7 sins a day, therefore a sinner can not be God because he/she is not perfect. present Imam said 'ONLY ALLAH IS PERFECT'.kmaherali wrote:There is no trap at all! To elevate yourself and to become fana fi allah is the purpose of our existence, through which we attain peace and a complete understanding of the purpose and meaning of our existence.swamidada wrote: You are trapped in your words.
If a person is unwilling to declare himself as God, then what is use of claiming to be God. What is the use of this exercise to become God. Insane person has hidden horns.
As I have said, a person who becomes Fana fi Allah should never reveal his attainment or success to others. It is his own. That is what the present Imam has told us.swamidada wrote: I am not against the concept of fana fi Allah. My objection is that the person who had or has union with grace of God can not claim to be God. In the words of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah a true Momin commits at least 7 sins a day, therefore a sinner can not be God because he/she is not perfect. present Imam said 'ONLY ALLAH IS PERFECT'.
That I have already clarified, if he tries will fail.kmaherali wrote:As I have said, a person who becomes Fana fi Allah should never reveal his attainment or success to others. It is his own.swamidada wrote: I am not against the concept of fana fi Allah. My objection is that the person who had or has union with grace of God can not claim to be God. In the words of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah a true Momin commits at least 7 sins a day, therefore a sinner can not be God because he/she is not perfect. present Imam said 'ONLY ALLAH IS PERFECT'.
JEEM GU(N)GHEY SAPNA PAYA
SAMAJH SAMAJH PACHHTAYA
But question stays where it was, can fana fi Allah person be called God?
When a person is in union with God as per MSMS, he is granted whatever he wishes. For example he could wish for anything and he would get it. Sayyed Imam Shah could order the Ganges to come to his place and he was recognized as being God by others. This is stated in the Ginan: Prabhaate Uthi Sarve Sa(n)g Snaan-ja Kareaaswamidada wrote: But question stays where it was, can fana fi Allah person be called God?
ire bhaai-re prabhaate uthi sarve sa(n)g snaan-ja kareaa,
ga(n)gaa jamanaa naavaa chaaleaa-ji....1
O dear brothers, waking up at dawn the entire group used to perform the bathing. They headed towards the Ganges and Yamuna rivers to bath therein.
jire bhaai-re un-ku(n) pir imaam shaahaa esaa kaheaa,
tamaaro sa(n)g kiye thaame jaave-ji.....2
O dear brothers, Pir Imam Shah asked them in this manner: Where is your group headed towards?
jire bhaai-re ga(n)gaa jamanaa tirath travenni,
amaaro sa(n)g tiyaa(n) naavaa-ne jaae-ji.....3
O dear brothers, At the confluence of the three rivers Ganges, Yamuna (and Saraswati) - the place of pilgrimage. Our group is headed there to perform the bathing.
jire bhaai-re pir imaam shaahaa tiyaa(n) hukam-ja kareaa,
ga(n)gaa jamanaa-naa kaanthaa bhiraaje-ji.....4
O dear brothers, There Pir Imam Shah ordered: The banks of rivers Ganges and Yamuna, take a sit here!
jire bhaai-re sa(n)ge tiyaa(n) imaan-ja aaneaa,
gur imaam shaahaa-ne prabhu pichhaaneaa-ji....5
O dear brothers, the group was filled with faith and recognized the guide Imam Shah as God
Miracles can happen with permission of God does not mean the person should claim to be God. It is Karam, kindness, benevolence, and generosity of God. Does Syed Imam Shah claimed to be God?kmaherali wrote:When a person is in union with God as per MSMS, he is granted whatever he wishes. For example he could wish for anything and he would get it.swamidada wrote: But question stays where it was, can fana fi Allah person be called God?
BARREY KARAM KE HAI(N) FAISLEY
BARREY NASIBU(N) KI BAAT HAI
YEH MERI GIRYAZARI HAI
TU NEY MERI LAAJ RAKHI
Sayyed Imam Shah did not have to claim to be God. His action convinced those who witnessed it, that he was indeed God. No ordinary person can do that, whether it is through the permission of God or not.swamidada wrote:
Miracles can happen with permission of God does not mean the person should claim to be God. It is Karam, kindness, benevolence, and generosity of God. Does Syed Imam Shah claimed to be God?
You wrote," Sayyed Imam Shah did not have to claim to be God".kmaherali wrote:Sayyed Imam Shah did not have to claim to be God. His action convinced those who witnessed it, that he was indeed God. No ordinary person can do that, whether it is through the permission of God or not.swamidada wrote:
Miracles can happen with permission of God does not mean the person should claim to be God. It is Karam, kindness, benevolence, and generosity of God. Does Syed Imam Shah claimed to be God?
Of course he was not God. He knew there is only one NIRIJIN in Universe to be worshiped. If some one's action convince people to be called God then in Khoja community there were and are many Wazirs/Waras who served jamaits should be entitled to be called God. or our Pirs who devoted their lives for Imam and jamaits should be called God, but it is not the case. For good work, service to humanity, and good deeds permission of God is not necessary. Such persons are automatically permitted, no need to disturb God.
In absence of the actual manager, if another individual performs all activities which only a manager can perform, workers in a company will consider this person as being the manager whether he/she is actually called/titled a manager. Similarly if a person has shown the capability of performing actions which only God can perform, then it is not inappropriate for people to consider or recognize him as God as stated in the Ginan.swamidada wrote: You wrote," Sayyed Imam Shah did not have to claim to be God".
Of course he was not God. He knew there is only one NIRIJIN in Universe to be worshiped. If some one's action convince people to be called God then in Khoja community there were and are many Wazirs/Waras who served jamaits should be entitled to be called God. or our Pirs who devoted their lives for Imam and jamaits should be called God, but it is not the case. For good work, service to humanity, and good deeds permission of God is not necessary. Such persons are automatically permitted, no need to disturb God.
The selected person by Boss or owner who perform duties of a manger is temporary and is called assistant.kmaherali wrote:In absence of the actual manager, if another individual performs all activities which only a manager can perform, workers in a company will consider this person as being the manager whether he/she is actually called/titled a manager.swamidada wrote: You wrote," Sayyed Imam Shah did not have to claim to be God".
Of course he was not God. He knew there is only one NIRIJIN in Universe to be worshiped. If some one's action convince people to be called God then in Khoja community there were and are many Wazirs/Waras who served jamaits should be entitled to be called God. or our Pirs who devoted their lives for Imam and jamaits should be called God, but it is not the case. For good work, service to humanity, and good deeds permission of God is not necessary. Such persons are automatically permitted, no need to disturb God.
If Kmaherali is asked to perform some govt tasks does not mean he is the real CM Justin Trudeau of Canada.kmaherali wrote:It doesn't matter what he is called, if he is performing the tasks of the manager he is considered as manager.swamidada wrote: The selected person by Boss or owner who perform duties of a manger is temporary and is called assistant.
So you agree with me that subordinate of PM can not claim to be PM of country. HE WHO IS BORN CAN NOT BE CALLED GOD. There is huge difference between CREATOR and CREATION.kmaherali wrote:Of course not, performing some government tasks is not equivalent of performing the tasks of a PM.swamidada wrote: If Kmaherali is asked to perform some govt tasks does not mean he is the real CM Justin Trudeau of Canada.