Is Quran compilation complete?

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:20 am

kmaherali wrote:
junglikhan4 wrote:It was the copy of same Usmania Quran kissed by Shah Karim Hazar Imam in public.
In first paragraph of preamble, Imam has mentioned," Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind and is universal and eternal."
That is the zahir for the whole mankind. But from the batin there is a verse of the Ginan: E Sabhaga:

e sabhaagaa aape shaah mulaa aape shaah kaazee
aape ved kuraan sabhaagaa.............................8

O fortunate one, the Imam himself is the scholar, He himself is the judge, He himself is the ved (holy scriptures) and the Qur'aan, fortunate one.

Wow I love you Pirs...

Look at the verse , Pir tell us everything ,but only fortunate can get it that real Quran is itself Imam.

Its sad that most of the ismailies are unfortunate that they didn't know that Imam is Itself Quran and they keep believing that Allah's guidance is only limited in 30 chapter....you know why, because their Allah is too small and not more than 30 chapters, but my ALLAH IS GREAT. He give me guidance time by time.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:53 am

Ya Ali Madad. For our 2 non ismailis members.
Acknowledging something and accepting have both different definition.
We Ismailis do acknowledge the Holy Book, but strictly accept n follow the farmans of MHI.( bolta Quran).
Admin may acknowledge one as member in the forum, may be not accept that member as an Ismaili.I accept the same one as a serpent.
Do a test of common sense with student Muslims n nonmuslims n see their
reply.

I told few muslim n non muslims person from age 12 to 16 all studying in English grade school n college.There were no ismaili amongst them.

If a person dictate or delivers messages to be stored in memories of person
1370 year back when 98% were illiterates. and message carved on stone, skins ,camel shoulders ,etc blah blah for 22 years.
Now the same data from memories of morons and places n written on different medias is collated n complied in 7 years times by one person
with politics n religion playing then.
What can be error that that final compiled data.
Is it 100 % correct ?
or there can be error in it?
even most science data n research mention say from 2-10% plus or minus in data. taking all precautions in mordern time.
WHO IS FOOLING WHOM.
All the student gave on reply.
we all know it.

Even the most intelligent knowing all answer by heart till last minute of exam find diffucult to score over 95% marks out of 100.
short memory give 5 % error.
Imagine memories of unlearned holding to re tell over 22 years.
even poems are forgotten by students after 5 years to recite it fully.
It was accepted by then population because it was published by a ruler
( who could kill anybody with power therein and in name of GOD)
the 2 thing s EXECUTIVE POWER and NAME OF GOD.
that copy ( mushaf) become as 'holy book' by one caliph.
H. ALI did not accept it. he may acknowledge it to be in line with ground reality.
I wish all to to pose this question od data n compilation.
and only one question.
Can a Giganantic work of that order n circumstances then produce
a data with 0% ERROR.
The tafseer done on it also at mediocre level n tawil of it light yers away for Zahiris.
I wish test result from two non Imailis done on those mix religion people with rational sense.( do impartial test).
they will the TRUTH.

With bolta Quran/GOD with us. we have also had ( they/many) rasikiunfilIlm like our Pirs, khusraw, rumi, shams tabriz who made excellent tawil of it. we are advised to read that minutely.

There is a farman of Imam SMS to ignore the braying n barking of zahiris/Ismaili dislikers.

Admin: do you wish to make your website a ZOO?
Answer in one word YES or NO.

Post by **Admin** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:31 am

nuseri wrote:
Admin: do you wish to make your website a ZOO?
Answer in one word YES or NO.

Since I am your employee, please send my salary and I will feel bound to reply to you. And of course I will delete your post. It does not seem that you understand the rules of this Forum. Please make sure to read again.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:31 pm

Nuseri,
Don't forget that their are many Quran Hafiz persons they can recite Quran easily without any mistake!
There are many Ismailis who can recites ginans without any mistakes, my dad knows almost 300 ginans! and whenever some one ask for any ginans! he used to recites without any books!
There were many missionaries who used to recites 600 ginans without mistakes

but look at our short lasted memories! Our memory and remembering abilities haas been dropped dramatically even yonger generation forget what they had eaten yesterday in a lunch? They can not remembers their own relatives!
Now whom to blame? I think TV, VIDEO GAME and cell phones Texta messages are not only one but there are many other reasons are also liable! A junk food, not enough religious trainings, parents responsibilities towards their kids, drug, alcohol habits e.t.c
But if you ask them who is the actors in BAJRANGI BHAIJAAN, OR BAHUBALI? Then they have answers ready for you! But if you ask them who was emperor Humayu? Then I promiss they will take silence!!!

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:18 pm

Admin wrote:You forgot

"MOHMAN DIL QURAN"

Follow the Bolto Quran. If you are an Ismaili it matters a lot, else it does not matter what you follow.

Reply,

" Momin dil Quran " means a momin respect and act according to Quran.
Pir Sadruddin was Hafiz e Quran.
Famous poet Allamah Iqbal ( a friend of MSMS, with whom he discussed a lot about religion and mono realism ) has said in poetry,

HAR LAHZA HAI MOMIN KI NAI AAN NAI SHAN
GIFTAR MEY KIRDAR MEY ALLAH KA QURAN

And in other verse he said about momin,
QARI NAZAR AATA HAI HAQIQAT MEY HAI QURAN

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:23 pm

agakhani wrote:Nuseri,
Don't forget that their are many Quran Hafiz persons they can recite Quran easily without any mistake!
There are many Ismailis who can recites ginans without any mistakes, my dad knows almost 300 ginans! and whenever some one ask for any ginans! he used to recites without any books!
There were many missionaries who used to recites 600 ginans without mistakes but look at our short lasted memories! Our memory and remembering abilities haas been dropped dramatically even yonger generation forget what they had eaten yesterday in a lunch? They can not remembers their own relatives!
Now whom to blame? I think TV, VIDEO GAME and cell phones Texta messages are not only one but there are many other reasons are also liable! A junk food, not enough religious trainings, parents responsibilities towards their kids, drug, alcohol habits e.t.c
But if you ask them who is the actors in BAJRANGI BHAIJAAN, OR BAHUBALI? Then they have answers ready for you! But if you ask them who was emperor Humayu? Then I promiss they will take silence!!!

Mr. AK day by day you are getting wiser. Good reply to Nuseri baba. There are lots of so called babaas in Maharashtra, he is one of them.

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:12 pm

kmaherali wrote:
junglikhan4 wrote:It was the copy of same Usmania Quran kissed by Shah Karim Hazar Imam in public.
In first paragraph of preamble, Imam has mentioned," Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind and is universal and eternal."
That is the zahir for the whole mankind. But from the batin there is a verse of the Ginan: E Sabhaga:

e sabhaagaa aape shaah mulaa aape shaah kaazee
aape ved kuraan sabhaagaa.............................8

O fortunate one, the Imam himself is the scholar, He himself is the judge, He himself is the ved (holy scriptures) and the Qur'aan, fortunate one.

Reply,
When Imam comes for didaar, first Quran is recited and then ginan
Km, I consider you the master of twisting the meanings. What is the meaning of mulaa tell me. Is it scholar? By the way in spainish mulla means money.
Our pirs follow the philosophy of PANTHEISM, the doctrine which means God is every thing.
Let me quote here a couplet of Sachal Sarmast,

GAH MULLA GAH QAZI MUHTASIB, GAH HALLAJ AST BI CHIZ MI SHAWAD
GAH AAYAD DAR JALAL WA DAR JAMAL, ASHKAR RAA KAMTAR MI SHAWAD.

TRANSLATION;
Some times He becomes mulla some times becomes judge, and some times in hijab of Hallaj and is captured. Some times in hijab of jalal sand some times in hijab of jamal. O Ashkaar ( pen name of sachal ) some times He is " aajiz "
means humble and down to earth.

Post by **Admin** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:27 pm

junglikhan4 wrote: " Momin dil Quran " means a momin respect and act according to Quran.

You are looking in the wrong dictionary. This is the problem when people do not understand the kanguage and use some dictionary

I remember reading on a shirt, made in Turkey, in French written "Fait en Dinde".

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:38 pm

ismaili103 wrote:
kmaherali wrote:
junglikhan4 wrote:It was the copy of same Usmania Quran kissed by Shah Karim Hazar Imam in public.
In first paragraph of preamble, Imam has mentioned," Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind and is universal and eternal."
That is the zahir for the whole mankind. But from the batin there is a verse of the Ginan: E Sabhaga:

e sabhaagaa aape shaah mulaa aape shaah kaazee
aape ved kuraan sabhaagaa.............................8

O fortunate one, the Imam himself is the scholar, He himself is the judge, He himself is the ved (holy scriptures) and the Qur'aan, fortunate one.
Wow I love you Pirs...

Look at the verse , Pir tell us everything ,but only fortunate can get it that real Quran is itself Imam.

Its sad that most of the ismailies are unfortunate that they didn't know that Imam is Itself Quran and they keep believing that Allah's guidance is only limited in 30 chapter....you know why, because their Allah is too small and not more than 30 chapters, but my ALLAH IS GREAT. He give me guidance time by time.

Reply,

You wrote," Wow I love Pirs.." So do I.
Imam is the real interpreter of Quran and "RASIKHUN FIL ILM", as IMAM JA'FER SADIQ said.
You wrote," Allah is too small and is not more than 30 chapters". Kid, you start your Du'a with name of ALLAH ( BISMILLAHIR RAHMANIR RAHIM ) and count how many times you repeat in Du'a. What message you are conveying to other muslims. Look like you people have not learnt your lesson.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:48 am

To Agakhani: Ya Ali Madad.
what was literacy lvel now n 1400 years back.
if a student learn peom at age 5 , then at age 12 has other subject n topic in those 7 years. so by nature and law of probability he can remember all the poem fully then.try it our around you to see the realilty.
While giving examples of ginans. one read n recite those from childhood till death on daily basis with nothing much to do for their .
You ask those around you id a monumental data spread of different media and memory of persons for 22 year. are they certain that there would no error in compilation which takes 7 year.
Ask them give me their answers.
You are giving your own personal observation some with great memory
some with near zero memory of not remembering previous day meal.
I wish all member both Ismailis n non Ismaili put this problem to educated one.please post the honest answers to those to problem posed.
In any court or dispute setelement One has to make a scenario of past on test on those living now to reflect was can be a collective answers from people with reasoning. that outcome is a valid point for judge to form opinion.
Please try and give result n do not run or escape of giving s small test to educated around you'll.
I definitely love the test result form Agakhani n of course zznoor ( a IT pro with analaytics and awareness of 'law of probability' n 'margin of error'

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:39 am

Look at the verse , Pir tell us everything ,but only fortunate can get it that real Quran is and they keep believing that Allah's guidance is only limited in 30 chapter....you know why, because their Allah is too small and not more than 30 chapters, but my ALLAH IS GREAT. He give me guidance time by time.

Their Allah is Allah, universal GOD. Your Allah has many faces. Quran is not Allah but Allah's Kalam. Please know the difference.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:58 pm

100 direct instructions by Allah in the Quran for Mankind

1. Do not be rude in speech (3:159)
2. Restrain Anger (3:134)
3. Be good to others (4:36)
4. Do not be arrogant (7:13)
5. Forgive others for their mistakes (7:199)
6. Speak to people mildly (20:44)
7. Lower your voice (31:19)
8. Do not ridicule others (49:11)
9. Be dutiful to parents(17:23)
10. Do not say a word of disrespect to parents (17:23)
11. Do not enter parents’ private room without asking permission (24:58)
12. Write down the debt (2:282)
13. Do not follow anyone blindly (2:170)
14. Grant more time to repay if the debtor is in hard time (2:280)
15. Don’t consume interest (2:275)
16. Do not engage in bribery (2:188)
17. Do not break the promise (2:177)
18. Keep the trust (2:283)
19. Do not mix the truth with falsehood (2:42)
20. Judge with justice between people (4:58)
21. Stand out firmly for justice (4:135)
22. Wealth of the dead should be distributed among his family members (4:7)
23. Women also have the right for inheritance (4:7)
24. Do not devour the property of orphans (4:10)
25. Protect orphans (2:220)
26. Do not consume one another’s wealth unjustly (4:29)
27. Try for settlement between people (49:9)
28. Avoid suspicion (49:12)
29. Do not spy and backbite (2:283)
30. Do not spy or backbite (49:12)
31. Spend wealth in charity (57:7)
32. Encourage feeding poor (107:3)
33. Help those in need by finding them (2:273)
34. Do not spend money extravagantly (17:29)
35. Do not invalidate charity with reminders (2:264)
36. Honor guests (51:26)
37. Order righteousness to people only after practicing it yourself(2:44)
38. Do not commit abuse on the earth (2:60)
39. Do not prevent people from mosques (2:114)
40. Fight only with those who fight you (2:190)
41. Keep the etiquettes of war (2:191)
42. Do not turn back in battle (8:15)
43. No compulsion in religion (2:256)
44. Believe in all prophets (2:285)
45. Do not have sexual intercourse during menstrual period (2:222)
46. Breast feed your children for two complete years (2:233)
47. Do not even approach unlawful sexual intercourse (17:32)
48. Choose rulers by their merit (2:247)
49. Do not burden a person beyond his scope (2:286)
50. Do not become divided (3:103)
51. Think deeply about the wonders and creation of this universe (3:191)
52. Men and Women have equal rewards for their deeds (3:195)
53. Do not marry those in your blood relation (4:23)
54. Family should be led by men (4:34)
55. Do not be miserly (4:37)
56.Do not keep envy (4:54)
57. Do not kill each other (4:92)
58. Do not be an advocate for deceit (4:105)
59. Do not cooperate in sin and aggression (5:2)
60. Cooperate in righteousness (5:2)
61. ’Having majority’ is not a criterion of truth (6:116)
62. Be just (5:8)
63. Punish for crimes in an exemplary way (5:38)
64. Strive against sinful and unlawful acts (5:63)
65. Dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine are prohibited (5:3)
66. Avoid intoxicants and alcohol (5:90)
67. Do not gamble (5:90)
68. Do not insult others’ deities (6:108)
69. Don’t reduce weight or measure to cheat people (6:152)
70. Eat and Drink, But Be Not Excessive (7:31)
71. Wear good cloths during prayer times (7:31)
72. protect and help those who seek protection (9:6)
73. Keep Purity (9:108)
74. Never give up hope of Allah’s Mercy (12:87)
75. Allah will forgive those who have done wrong out of ignorance (16:119)
76. Invitation to God should be with wisdom and good instruction (16:125)
77. No one will bear others’ sins (17:15)
78. Do not kill your children for fear of poverty (17:31)
79. Do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge (17:36)
80. Keep aloof from what is vain (23:3)
81. Do not enter others’ houses without seeking permission (24:27)
82. Allah will provide security for those who believe only in Allah (24:55)
83. Walk on earth in humility (25:63)
84. Do not neglect your portion of this world (28:77)
85. Invoke not any other god along with Allah (28:88)
86. Do not engage in homosexuality (29:29)
87. Enjoin right, forbid wrong (31:17)
88. Do not walk in insolence through the earth (31:18)
89. Women should not display their finery (33:33)
90. Allah forgives all sins (39:53)
91. Do not despair of the mercy of Allah (39:53)
92. Repel evil by good (41:34)
93. Decide on affairs by consultation (42:38)
94. Most noble of you is the most righteous (49:13)
95. No Monasticism in religion (57:27)
96. Those who have knowledge will be given a higher degree by Allah (58:11)
97. Treat non-Muslims in a kind and fair manner (60:8)98. Save yourself from covetousness (64:16)
99. Seek forgiveness of Allah. He is Forgiving and Merciful (73:20)
100. Do not repel one who asks (93:10)[/b]

please add more instructions if you find

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:27 pm

Look at the verse , Pir tell us everything ,but only fortunate can get it that real Quran is and they keep believing that Allah's guidance is only limited in 30 chapter....you know why, because their Allah is too small and not more than 30 chapters, but my ALLAH IS GREAT. He give me guidance time by time.

Quran has Guidance/Instructin for mankind, you have to find it and follow on it.

See 100 above

Post by **Admin** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:04 pm

Most of these obvious rules for a balanced society are also found in the Ginans, the Bible, the Gita and many other religious book. I don't think anyone will disagree. But what is the purpose of the copy-paste as far as the thread is concerned? Or are we just filing pages?

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:05 am

Ya Ali Madad. to all members.
I have put a test question to all members based on this topic heading.
to star any debate.one sided stand with religious affiliation may be futile at times.
I have three points on the copy perceived to be our Holy book.

The first very simple n basic question.

CAN THERE BE ANY SMALL OR BIG OR MICRO MARGIN OF ERROR IN COMPILATION OF monumental DATA DELIVERED OVER 22 YEARS ON MANY MEDIA N MEMORIES ,WHERE 98% WERE ILLITERATES AND SAME COMPLIED OF OF IT IN 7 YEARS TIME.?
Every thing need to be looked holistically with rational mind.
I have observed zznoor, when she has tell the truth against her religious affiliation she doe not reply.she jumps in to petty posting of other members.
Let start with the basics with facts/data of 1370 year back.
The collective rational answers of members and those you may have asked as a test will give us to move further to make our POV.
let truth n rationality rule your mind.
Please reply as it is a very simple and easy question

Please note our POV can be basis in future scholars of any international debate
that may happen n also be watched LIVE by billions on TV n seek their answer impartial.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:14 am

junglikhan4 wrote:Reply,
When Imam comes for didaar, first Quran is recited and then ginan.

Yes the zaher is first and the batin follows. Qur'an is the zaher ( message for mankind) and Ginans are the batin (interpretation for the Jamat). Then of cousre the Farman which may be considered as Batin al- Batin. The Farman is most imporatnt for the occasion!

junglikhan4 wrote: Km, I consider you the master of twisting the meanings. What is the meaning of mulaa tell me. Is it scholar? By the way in spainish mulla means money.

When you google the word Mullah you get:

www.thefreedictionary.com/mullah
A religious teacher or leader, especially in Shiite practice. 2. Used as a form of address for such a teacher.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/mullah

mullah. title given in Muslim lands to one learned in theology and sacred law, 1610s, from Turkish molla, Persian and Urdu mulla, from Arabic mawla "master," from waliya "reigned, governed."

You may interpret the word to mean money but it does not change the fact that the Imam is the Qur'an!

junglikhan4 wrote: Our pirs follow the philosophy of PANTHEISM, the doctrine which means God is every thing.

That's not true. Provide an example from a Ginan to prove your point.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:26 am

zznoor wrote:Their Allah is Allah, universal GOD. Your Allah has many faces. Quran is not Allah but Allah's Kalam. Please know the difference.

That is the zaher, from the batin it can be anything - the Imam being the Mazhar of Allah is also the bolta Qur'an, hence Imam = Qur'an.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:01 am

That is the zaher, from the batin it can be anything - the Imam being the Mazhar of Allah is also the bolta Qur'an, hence Imam = Qur'an.

Kbhai,

Well Explanation on Zaher, Batin, Imam and Quran and only in single sentence!! but all peoples will not understand that as Ismaili103 wrote earlier that " very few fortunate persons only understand the ginans" because Ginans are a treasure of gold for those fortunate persons ! Ismaili sect is a Batini religion, we are above the Shariya! [/b]while majority Muslims brothers are still trapped in shariyati level! they only see the Zaheri level Imam kisses the Quran? that is true but they usually forget that Imam also give same position to ginans too. let me give you an event which is related to an importance of ginans:
I think this event happened in Africa, it was very short noticed visit of MHI, the leaders tried very hard to accommodate whatever they can do in just few days! Mowla came in hall, Quranic Tilawat was recited ! after that Molwa looked at Mukhi Saheb and asked "No ginan today"!!? (salwat) Mukhi Saheb answered Mowla it was very short notice of your visit we forget to arrange ginans! and Mukhi called some one from front raw and he recited ginans and Mowla became very happy and gave him Dua ashish and Khananwadan.

Post by **Admin** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:09 am

agakhani wrote:you must still remember that I told you when I rejoined again : that I will not insult you but other people's I mentioned their names too; that if they goes out of boundary then I will not stop my shelf, my condition is still there

Let me remind you that insult to anyone is not allowed in this Forum.

I wonder why people dilute important messages within a series of insults and that makes their post so less valuable yet they allow their anger to surpass their willingness to share knowledge.

This said, a last reminder, you are in no position to dictate your rules and conditions on this Forum, you have to follow the rules which applies to all and which, if respected. will ensure that your posts are not deleted.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:58 pm

I will appreciate if some one tell the date and place where MHI requested Mukhi to arrange some one to recite ginan after quranic tilawat? May be admin has answer.

Post by **Admin** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:54 pm

agakhani wrote:I will appreciate if some one tell the date and place where MHI requested Mukhi to arrange some one to recite ginan after quranic tilawat? May be admin has answer.

I have read this Farman but my memory is not good enough to remember the date and place...

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:39 pm

agakhani wrote:I will appreciate if some one tell the date and place where MHI requested Mukhi to arrange some one to recite ginan after quranic tilawat? May be admin has answer.

The anecdote is mentioned in the thread below:

Importance of Ginans
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... opic&t=112

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:20 am

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.

I feel since joining this forum.the 100 points highlighted of of holy book is the best posting ever.i appreciate it n God bless you.over 20 more points are overlooked I feel.( Point no. 61 does sounds true)

This is ALI or to you as ALI+Lah+Allah speaking out as third person out a media.( prophet.) 1370 year back.
we have ALI all the way in person to explain many of those value ,ethics,moral and virtues according to time we live in his Farmans
All of it is said as 'Ethics of Islam' along with faith, meditation,Intellect, education, health, housing,welfare and 20 others topics.
you look at tree ( 1) by laying on the ground while we see it from top along with it's sorroundings.(1+19)

To All educated members with great memories:
All members from alphabets : Ad to Zz.
I want answer to my question.
Based on facts of 1370 years n people's profile.

Can the now the compiled available n perceived as HOLY BOOK is sure shot 100% ERROR FREE ?

AAPNA IMAM, DHARAM KI DHONG AUR KRIYA SE UPAR RAKHO.

UPAAR IMAN AUR ILM JAYENGA ,JISM NAHI AUR BHEJA NAHI.

The time starts now.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:25 am

Sorry Typo error. the couplet should be read as
AAPNA IMAAN n not as AAPNA IMAM

Post by **Admin** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:57 am

Please refrain from personal messages and dispute in these forum. Any post containing personal messages between 2 or more users will be deleted. Stick to the issues, not to the person.

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:59 am

kmaherali wrote:
zznoor wrote:Their Allah is Allah, universal GOD. Your Allah has many faces. Quran is not Allah but Allah's Kalam. Please know the difference.
That is the zaher, from the batin it can be anything - the Imam being the Mazhar of Allah is also the bolta Qur'an, hence Imam = Qur'an.

Reply,

You equate Imam = Quran.
But Quran is word of Allah and not Allah it self. Same way Mazhar of Allah is not
Allah himself.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:15 am

Ya Ali Madad.
As said by MHI that our faith is of Sufi tariqa.
So come baatin interpretation of Many worsd n saying.
the book is just printed pages.
the content is said to be NOOR. Ali+lah=Allah is also defined as NOOR.

so Quran= Noor= GOD/Ali/Imam
so at baatin n logic Quran = Imam.

Even is word Allah is one shade inferior to the word n Name ALI.
as one is ultimate name n other penultimate name given to search with many life cycles on Earth to know n see the truth.

Mazar mean manfestation or appereance of GOD.

The word mazar get sublimed Aperreance itself is GOD.
Only ignorant fool doe not realize it.

If a Pir say moman dil Quran.It is right.

as noor dwell in Quran in the same way noor of God dwell in the heart of the believer.
so the word Dil /Heart equated to Quran.( both as dwelling place).

Sufi will personify all holistic thing to highest level.

a small will debate endlessly with a graduate.
as child say it is water while say it is H2O( HydrogendioOxide).

A Sufi may personify it be as Life,as water is most important element to sustain life for all on Earth.
Each to its level of intellect?Noor.
I feel ignorant Non Ismailis to stay away from baatin debates

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:25 am

Ya Ali Madad:
I have seen almost all members have said something on this topic in last 47 pages n over a period of time.
Why anyone of you is not replying to my question?
positive or negative reply can start a healthy debate on it.

Post by **Admin** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:54 am

A Mzee (Buzurg) living in Nairobi, once told me that Hazar Imam has said that often you can get the right answer if you ask the right question.

Since I heard him told me this, I always question myself: "Am I asking the right question? " When I do not receive an answer or receive a wrong answers, I think to myself that I may have improperly or unclearly expressed the question and I should perhaps reformulate it properly.

You should do the same.

Admin

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:34 am

junglikhan4 wrote:You equate Imam = Quran.
But Quran is word of Allah and not Allah it self. Same way Mazhar of Allah is not
Allah himself.

Please explain the difference between Mazhar of Allah and Allah. Then we can discuss the rest.