Reincarnation in Islam

[Admin]

Ya Ali Madad.
Where is my posting in reply to above post gone?
What was adverse in it ?.
It is unfair.

Personal insults towards anyone are not allowed in this Forum. If you have one personal insult in a 500 lines post, the whole post will be deleted.

[nuseri]

To zznoor: Ya Ali Madad.
Nice posting made by you.I would explain as perceived by me.
1.firstly then 15% quality of explanation is diluted and another 5% by translator.so what we is 80% correct what God wishes to stay.
2. There are a word True before the word success.
True means haqiqat makaam/asal makaam.
For that one needs to yesrn for quest of Truth,recognition of truth, seeing of truth, experining the truth.If God is thuth ,then must happen for TRUE SUCCESS..
3.This ayat is different form or akin to it is said in other holy book since ages.
4.humble submission,means love,mercy and seeking grace from God,need not be xyz style or particular words.
God accept humble submission of a faithful of all religions.
5.Zakar or charity is must ,that act by itself is aust as a prayer for true success.
So the key words are faith and generosity, which I defined Ismailsm in other post last week.
6.So for a human to pray, he may not a pat of Sahada( candle no 1).
7. For true success no Roza is needed ( candle no 4).
.For true success no hajj is needed ( candle no 5).
Ismaili exactly reflects this ayat with ibaadat added to it to achieve what can be a success and what should be TRUE SUCCESS.
if mullah ,kazi understood this ayat ,the state of shariatis would not have in such a horrible state ,
Just by bending body and uttering ayats does reflects submission,may be not a humble one and quest for truth if words of ayat is understood in the first place.
I am willing to take question on my statements.

[kmaherali]

Chilling Reincarnation Stories: Meet 3 Children Who Lived Before

Slide show:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/lifestyle/smar ... ut#image=1

[shivaathervedi]

BELIEVE IT OR NOT:

Some time back I was told the following story by an Ismaili from USA.

In USA, some where a RC teacher (I don not want to mention the name of person or location of RC) told his 9th grade students that this is his 8th janam
(incarnation) and in his previous janam (means 7th janam he was a LADIES TAILOR in a village near Mumbai.
Students burst into laughter and some made fun of his story. While cross questioning the teacher was unable to satisfy reincarnation theory resulting few students quit attending his class and some parents of students criticized teacher saying reincarnation is not part of our faith and it is not supposed to be imposed on students.
In new RC syllabus from 1st to 12th grade there is no mention of reincarnation theory.

[kmaherali]

BELIEVE IT OR NOT:

Some time back I was told the following story by an Ismaili from USA.

In USA, some where a RC teacher (I don not want to mention the name of person or location of RC) told his 9th grade students that this is his 8th janam
(incarnation) and in his previous janam (means 7th janam he was a LADIES TAILOR in a village near Mumbai.
Students burst into laughter and some made fun of his story. While cross questioning the teacher was unable to satisfy reincarnation theory resulting few students quit attending his class and some parents of students criticized teacher saying reincarnation is not part of our faith and it is not supposed to be imposed on students.
In new RC syllabus from 1st to 12th grade there is no mention of reincarnation theory.

Of course you have to apply your intellects to determine what stories are credible or not. The stories that I have posted are quite credible.

[shivaathervedi]

BELIEVE IT OR NOT:

Some time back I was told the following story by an Ismaili from USA.

In USA, some where a RC teacher (I don not want to mention the name of person or location of RC) told his 9th grade students that this is his 8th janam
(incarnation) and in his previous janam (means 7th janam he was a LADIES TAILOR in a village near Mumbai.
Students burst into laughter and some made fun of his story. While cross questioning the teacher was unable to satisfy reincarnation theory resulting few students quit attending his class and some parents of students criticized teacher saying reincarnation is not part of our faith and it is not supposed to be imposed on students.
In new RC syllabus from 1st to 12th grade there is no mention of reincarnation theory.

Of course you have to apply your intellects to determine what stories are credible or not. The stories that I have posted are quite credible.

Of course every one has to apply his/her intellect in sophisticated intellectual exercises.
According to laws of nature which are applied in same way on human beings, a dead person's soul can not be coming back until and unless there is some other applicable law of nature for Re-Cycling of human souls. Human soul is not like chicken soul produce as many millions you like!!

[shivaathervedi]

Karma has no menu. You get served what you deserve.

[kmaherali]

Titanic survivors and WWII pilots: The eerie stories of kids who recall their 'past lives'

One morning in the year 2000, 2-year-old James Leininger woke up from a vivid nightmare and started telling his parents about a man named Lt. James McCready Huston.

It’s normal for kids to have nightmares, isn’t it? James’s mom and dad, Andrea and Bruce thought so. And one like their son’s wouldn’t have normally worried them.

Only, as far as they both knew, James had never met or heard of this man before. No one had – he was a WWII fighter pilot who died on the March 3, 1945.

“Just after his second birthday, [James] started having night terrors that he was in a plane that got shot down and crashed into the water, and that he couldn’t get out,” Andrea said on Fox morning television in 2013.

“And his actions would mimic those of somebody who was trying to get out of something, as if he was trapped in the box and trying to kick his way out.”

Then came the drawings. At 3, James began drawing pictures of fighter jets and battles, signing them off as ‘James 3’, even though he hadn’t yet learnt to write his name. He could also list off the names of his ‘fellow pilots’ and the name of the ship his jet took off from.

It was only after some research that James’s parents realized their toddler was recalling details of WWII battles as if they were his own memories. As if he… was there.

Reincarnation, or having a past life, is for many just a myth. For some, it's part of their religion and for others, like James and his family, it's a reality.

Researchers have studied young children’s reports of past-life memories for the last 45 years, with over 2,500 cases having been investigated worldwide, the Children's Report of Past-Life Memories: A Review reports.

More...
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/ti ... ailsignout

[aatimaram_1]

This Article is adopted from Ismailignosis.com.

What is the Ismaili Muslim View on Reincarnation?
Reincarnation - the idea that the human soul can be reborn into the physical world in another physical body - is explicitly rejected by the Ismaili Imams and thinkers of the Fatimid period and thereafter. The Ismaili Ginans composed in South Asia do mention reincarnation, but not as a doctrinal teaching or as a fact. Reincarnation in the Ginans is evoked always as a negative outcome – in the sense of a warning or a threat – if one does not recognise the Imam of the time. Reincarnation in the Ginans is evoked as a symbol of perpetual imprisonement and not asserted as an Ismaili doctrine. On this point, Aziz Esmail - a scholar of South Asian Ismaili literature - remarks on the subject of rebirth in the Ginans deserve reflection:

“The doctrine of reincarnation is a very old one, as is evident in its presence in cultures across the world from Ancient Greece, Africa, through to India. It is not to be found, of course, in scriptural traditions in the Semitic languages… Like Arabo-Persian Islam, Arabo-Persian Isma‘ilism is reported to have vigorously repudiated this doctrine. The Fatimid Caliph al-Mu’izz is reported to have sharply REPRIMANDED one of his missionaries in Sind for tolerating the belief.”
– Aziz Esmail, (A Scent of Sandlewood, 65)
“By the time we come to the Ginans, however, we find this theme very much part of their texture. Perhaps ‘theme’ is a wrong word. The doctrine is not canvassed or urged – it is a given, taken for granted. It is part of the atmosphere from which the literature inhales its substance. The Ginans invoke the doctrine; they do not assert it. An asserted idea is the object of thought; an invoked idea is a means, often unconscious, to some other conscious object or purpose.”
– Aziz Esmail, (A Scent of Sandalwood, 65)
“As it happens, the Ginans are eclectic rather than exclusive in this regard. They mention not only reincarnation, but also what we might call the prophetic model of life after death. Both are present without contradiction, without straining after logical resolution… In the Ginans one is told that to know the truth, which can be only through the true faith, is necessary for smashing, once and for all, the relentless chain of karma, of action and its consequences, which make the wheel of rebirth spin on and on. In this way, the idea of re-birth is invoked not to promote it as an object of belief, but to promote commitment to the true faith… The other model – what we call the ‘prophetic model’ – with its emphasis on judgment in the hereafter by God, and of paradise and hell as alternative destinations, exists harmoniously, side by side, with the doctrine of reincarnation. In fact, the prophetic model is more pronounced, more consciously elaborated. Reincarnation occurs in a formulaic form. But the other idea is more often elaborated, and frequently in vivid, graphic terms. We are never presented with an anecdote or a descriptive account of a soul caught in the cycle of rebirth. We are only reminded, in passing, of the misery of such a fate. But the other idea, divine judgment in the hereafter on one’s conduct in the world, forms the subject of the whole of a short Ginan and of many verses in numerous other hymns.”
– Aziz Esmail, (A Scent of Sandalwood, 66-67)
The most recent guidance of the Ismaili Imamat on the subject of reincarnation comes from Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah. Below is the question and answer to this question posed by the Ismaili Missionaries in 1954 and the Imam's response:

On 12th February, 1954, Count Paroo wrote to Khudavind asking following question: “Do the Ismailis believe that there is re-birth on this earth to repay and receive repayment of Karmic debt or do we believe that this re-birth will be in a (higher) creation than the human beings?

The Imam replied: “Obviously reborn means in a higher sphere than this earth. Without going to the final spiritual sphere there will be further triumph before the highest points are reached unless those highest points are reached in this world and on this earth by the general rules of the Ismaili faith beginning with kindness, gentleness, etc and going up to highest love of union with Imam.”

Source: Subjects Discussed By The Religious Study Group of Mombasa, Count Paroo, 12th February, 1954

The Imam's response denied rebirth back into this physical world and stated that the human soul is only reborn into a sphere or plane higher than or beyond the physical world. More on the nature of the Afterlife and the higher planes of being than this physical world is explained here: http://ismailignosis.helpscoutdocs.com/ ... fter-death

[kmaherali]

This Article is adopted from Ismailignosis.com.

What is the Ismaili Muslim View on Reincarnation?
Reincarnation - the idea that the human soul can be reborn into the physical world in another physical body - is explicitly rejected by the Ismaili Imams and thinkers of the Fatimid period and thereafter.

How do you explain children recalling their past lives in my last post?

[Admin]

And how do one explain Farmans of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah and aga Ali Shah about the lakh chorasi and people reincarnating as animal

this amusing Hadith: al-Tirmidhi (2212) narrated from ‘Imraan ibn Husayn that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Among this ummah, people will be transformed into monkeys and pigs, swallowed up in the earth, and pelted with stones.”

And this reverse reincarnation: Quran 5:60 Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs

unbeatable

[aatimaram_1]

And how do one explain Farmans of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah and aga Ali Shah about the lakh chorasi and people reincarnating as animal

this amusing Hadith: al-Tirmidhi (2212) narrated from ‘Imraan ibn Husayn that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Among this ummah, people will be transformed into monkeys and pigs, swallowed up in the earth, and pelted with stones.”

And this reverse reincarnation: Quran 5:60 Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs

unbeatable

Looks like you have not read the complete article. Let me resubmit the last paragraph;

On 12th February, 1954, Count Paroo wrote to Khudavind asking following question: “Do the Ismailis believe that there is re-birth on this earth to repay and receive repayment of Karmic debt or do we believe that this re-birth will be in a (higher) creation than the human beings?

The Imam replied: “Obviously reborn means in a higher sphere than this earth. Without going to the final spiritual sphere there will be further triumph before the highest points are reached unless those highest points are reached in this world and on this earth by the general rules of the Ismaili faith beginning with kindness, gentleness, etc and going up to highest love of union with Imam.”

Source: Subjects Discussed By The Religious Study Group of Mombasa, Count Paroo, 12th February, 1954

The Imam's response denied rebirth back into this physical world and stated that the human soul is only reborn into a sphere or plane higher than or beyond the physical world. More on the nature of the Afterlife and the higher planes of being than this physical world is explained here: http://ismailignosis.helpscoutdocs.com/ ... fter-death.
The Hadith you quoted of Tirmidhi is 'GHAREEB' means poor in narration because it does not carry proper channel of narrators till Prophet.

[kmaherali]

I think the way to resolve this apparent contradiction in the statements of the Imam is by considering the duality of the Zaheri and the Batini perspectives. In the verse of the Granth Sloko Nano, Pir Sadardeen states:

satgur kahere: jutthaa marnnaa to sab jug mare
ane saachaa na mare koi
aa gur geenaane je mare
teese bohor marann na hoy re.....................17

The True Guide says: All creatures can die false(repeated) deaths but not all of them die real deaths. Whoever dies after knowing the True Guide(or after getting knowledge from the True Guide), will not have to die again and again.

The state at the hereafter is dependent upon the state/consciousness at the moment of death. From a Batini perspective, a person who recognizes the Imam in his essence as God at the moment of his death, will not have any rebirths because he has the understanding of the Imam as someone to whom he returns or someone whose status he can attain. Hence his aspiration at the moment of death is towards God/Imam. There is a verse of Granth See Harfi which states:

keett bhamareekaa tame dekho khelaa
esaa paayaa gur su(n) chelaa.....................................10

Look at the relationship between a worm (larva) and a bee. When a worm endures the leaking of a bee, it is transformed into the nature of the bee. Similarly when a disciple rigorously follows the guide, he is transformed into the nature of the Guide, i.e. becomes Divine himself.

Thus even if he does not attain Fanna fi Allah immediately upon death, he will be purified at higher levels and hence experience rebirths at the higher spheres as per MSMSs hidayat to the study group. That's why the Imam gives blessings for eternal peace for the ruhanis.

From a Zaheri perspective, those who do not attain the recognition or knowledge of the essence of Imam as God at the moment of death, will have to take reincarnation as humans and even animals depending upon the state/consciousness at that moment. This is either due to unfulfilled desires in the material plane or confused understanding of the Imam.

[aatimaram]

I think the way to resolve this apparent contradiction in the statements of the Imam is by considering the duality of the Zaheri and the Batini perspectives. In the verse of the Granth Sloko Nano, Pir Sadardeen states:

satgur kahere: jutthaa marnnaa to sab jug mare
ane saachaa na mare koi
aa gur geenaane je mare
teese bohor marann na hoy re.....................17

The True Guide says: All creatures can die false(repeated) deaths but not all of them die real deaths. Whoever dies after knowing the True Guide(or after getting knowledge from the True Guide), will not have to die again and again.

The state at the hereafter is dependent upon the state/consciousness at the moment of death. From a Batini perspective, a person who recognizes the Imam in his essence as God at the moment of his death, will not have any rebirths because he has the understanding of the Imam as someone to whom he returns or someone whose status he can attain. Hence his aspiration at the moment of death is towards God/Imam. There is a verse of Granth See Harfi which states:

keett bhamareekaa tame dekho khelaa
esaa paayaa gur su(n) chelaa.....................................10

Look at the relationship between a worm (larva) and a bee. When a worm endures the leaking of a bee, it is transformed into the nature of the bee. Similarly when a disciple rigorously follows the guide, he is transformed into the nature of the Guide, i.e. becomes Divine himself.

Thus even if he does not attain Fanna fi Allah immediately upon death, he will be purified at higher levels and hence experience rebirths at the higher spheres as per MSMSs hidayat to the study group. That's why the Imam gives blessings for eternal peace for the ruhanis.

From a Zaheri perspective, those who do not attain the recognition or knowledge of the essence of Imam as God at the moment of death, will have to take reincarnation as humans and even animals depending upon the state/consciousness at that moment. This is either due to unfulfilled desires in the material plane or confused understanding of the Imam.

You have right to translate Ginan according to your ideology but I think it is not correct. Look at the following part of saloko nano you mentioned. For jutha marna you translated ' can die false repeated deaths '. For God sake where is word 'repeated' used in this part. There is no mention of reincarnation in this part.

satgur kahere: jutthaa marnnaa to sab jug mare
ane saachaa na mare koi
aa gur geenaane je mare
teese bohor marann na hoy re.....................

The True Guide says: All creatures can die false(repeated) deaths but not all of them die real deaths. Whoever dies after knowing the True Guide(or after getting knowledge from the True Guide), will not have to die again and again.

Also in the following part of si harfi, you gave example of worm and bee means only 2 transformations. It is like an example of egg and chicken. Also this is not a proper example of reincarnation.

keett bhamareekaa tame dekho khelaa
esaa paayaa gur su(n) chelaa.............................

I believe Hazar Imam's murid should pass the final test in first attempt to avoid chakars.

[kmaherali]

You have right to translate Ginan according to your ideology but I think it is not correct. Look at the following part of saloko nano you mentioned. For jutha marna you translated ' can die false repeated deaths '. For God sake where is word 'repeated' used in this part. There is no mention of reincarnation in this part.

Repeated is in brackets. False death means that it is not final but is intermediary and hence will be repeated. Real death means that it is final and there is no coming back.

Also in the following part of si harfi, you gave example of worm and bee means only 2 transformations. It is like an example of egg and chicken. Also this is not a proper example of reincarnation.

The verse was not meant to convey the idea of reincarnation. It was meant to convey that a murid is transformed into the nature of the Imam when he dies finally - Fanna Fi Allah

[aatimaram]

You have right to translate Ginan according to your ideology but I think it is not correct. Look at the following part of saloko nano you mentioned. For jutha marna you translated ' can die false repeated deaths '. For God sake where is word 'repeated' used in this part. There is no mention of reincarnation in this part.

Repeated is in brackets. False death means that it is not final but is intermediary and hence will be repeated. Real death means that it is final and there is no coming back.

Also in the following part of si harfi, you gave example of worm and bee means only 2 transformations. It is like an example of egg and chicken. Also this is not a proper example of reincarnation.

The verse was not meant to convey the idea of reincarnation. It was meant to convey that a murid is transformed into the nature of the Imam when he dies finally - Fanna Fi Allah

Repeated in brackets means that is your personal opinion and not necessarily mentioned in Ginan. In Islam and Ismailism once Izrael took the soul out of body there is no coming back of soul.

The discussion in above post is about reincarnation and not about fana.

[kmaherali]

Repeated in brackets means that is your personal opinion and not necessarily mentioned in Ginan. In Islam and Ismailism once Izrael took the soul out of body there is no coming back of soul.

The discussion in above post is about reincarnation and not about fana.

You mentioned MSMS's guidance about rebirth and I expressed my view that form the Zaheri point of you rebirth may take the form of reincarnation. From the Batini point of you rebirth takes place at higher realms ultimately leading to Fana.

[aatimaram]

Repeated in brackets means that is your personal opinion and not necessarily mentioned in Ginan. In Islam and Ismailism once Izrael took the soul out of body there is no coming back of soul.

The discussion in above post is about reincarnation and not about fana.

You mentioned MSMS's guidance about rebirth and I expressed my view that form the Zaheri point of you rebirth may take the form of reincarnation. From the Batini point of you rebirth takes place at higher realms ultimately leading to Fana.

Soul is a batin or hidden affair it does not die. Please review the wordings of MSMS. He said, "obviously reborn means in a higher sphere than the earth". It means reborn in higher sphere and not back on planet earth.

[kmaherali]

Soul is a batin or hidden affair it does not die. Please review the wordings of MSMS. He said, "obviously reborn means in a higher sphere than the earth". It means reborn in higher sphere and not back on planet earth.

I asked you a question in one of my posts which you did not answer. How do you explain small children recalling their previous lives according to modern research? There are over 2000 known cases!

[aatimaram]

Soul is a batin or hidden affair it does not die. Please review the wordings of MSMS. He said, "obviously reborn means in a higher sphere than the earth". It means reborn in higher sphere and not back on planet earth.

I asked you a question in one of my posts which you did not answer. How do you explain small children recalling their previous lives according to modern research? There are over 2000 known cases!

This is second time Admin deleted my answer to kmaherali for his above query. I do not understand what pain he has with my postings. The discussion is in between myself and kmaherali and not with Admin. Let me try once again.

Reply to kmaherali:

You wrote there are known 2000 cases and I assume mostly are from India. Now divide 2000 with 7.5 billion human beings and see what is the percentage. It is negligible. I also assume many are fake stories. Let me give an example. It is a common practice in dharma that priests or saints or missionaries coin such kind of stories to enhance iman of followers.

Scientifically any child or a person can be hypnotized and taken into trance by putting words or story in his/her subconscious which when he/she awake can repeat like tape recorder.

[Admin]

Soul is a batin or hidden affair it does not die. Please review the wordings of MSMS. He said, "obviously reborn means in a higher sphere than the earth". It means reborn in higher sphere and not back on planet earth.

I asked you a question in one of my posts which you did not answer. How do you explain small children recalling their previous lives according to modern research? There are over 2000 known cases!

This is second time Admin deleted my answer to kmaherali for his above query. I do not understand what pain he has with my postings. The discussion is in between myself and kmaherali and not with Admin.

You are most welcome to have a conversation by email.

Here in the Forum, any post has to be formulated for all those who read. For personnel exchange, feel free to email directly kmaherali

[kmaherali]

You wrote there are known 2000 cases and I assume mostly are from India. Now divide 2000 with 7.5 billion human beings and see what is the percentage. It is negligible. I also assume many are fake stories. Let me give an example. It is a common practice in dharma that priests or saints or missionaries coin such kind of stories to enhance iman of followers.

Scientifically any child or a person can be hypnotized and taken into trance by putting words or story in his/her subconscious which when he/she awake can repeat like tape recorder.

These are cases from all over the world and across cultures. As per article below which you have obviously not read.

Researchers have studied young children’s reports of past-life memories for the last 45 years, with over 2,500 cases having been investigated worldwide, the Children's Report of Past-Life Memories: A Review reports.

More...
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/ti ... ailsignout

Over 2500 are cases that have been investigated through modern scientific techniques. There could be many many more occurrences which have either been ignored by parents or not brought to the attention of the world.

And these very small children would not have been allowed to be hypnotised by anyone by their parents.

Please read the article!

[kmaherali]

Look! I Am a Whale!
Here is a poem by Hafiz, a Persian poet whose prose can only lift your spirit and inflame your heart!


Look! I Am a Whale!


We live on the Sun's playground.
Here, everyone gets what they want.

Sometimes the body of a beautiful woman,
Sometimes the body of a beautiful man,
Sometimes the body of both in one.

We used to play that kind of tag
In the animal world, too.
Now a mouse, now a tiger,
Look! I am a whale -- I got tired of the land,
Went back to the ocean for a while.

What power is it in our sinew and mind
That will not die,
That keeps us shopping for the perfect dress?

We have all heard the Flute Player
And keep dancing toward Him.

Hafiz, you have seen the Flute Player
and cannot help but whirl.

[shivaathervedi_2]

You wrote there are known 2000 cases and I assume mostly are from India. Now divide 2000 with 7.5 billion human beings and see what is the percentage. It is negligible. I also assume many are fake stories. Let me give an example. It is a common practice in dharma that priests or saints or missionaries coin such kind of stories to enhance iman of followers.

Scientifically any child or a person can be hypnotized and taken into trance by putting words or story in his/her subconscious which when he/she awake can repeat like tape recorder.

These are cases from all over the world and across cultures. As per article below which you have obviously not read.

Researchers have studied young children’s reports of past-life memories for the last 45 years, with over 2,500 cases having been investigated worldwide, the Children's Report of Past-Life Memories: A Review reports.

More...
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/ti ... ailsignout

Over 2500 are cases that have been investigated through modern scientific techniques. There could be many many more occurrences which have either been ignored by parents or not brought to the attention of the world.

And these very small children would not have been allowed to be hypnotised by anyone by their parents.

Please read the article!

I am posting a quote, posted date 17 April, 2018 on front page of Heritage by Admin which is self explanatory.

The deserted village will rehabitate and the poor will become rich. However, there is one astonishing sight: Brother, nobody can come to life after dying. [Sloko Nano]

-- Pir Shams


First Ismaili Electronic Library and Database - Welcome to the First web site dedicated to H.H. The Aga Khan and Ismailism.

Last Updated on April 17, 2018 at 15:40 EST

Please note Pir Shams had said, " Brother, nobody can come to life after dying".

[shivaathervedi_2]

You wrote there are known 2000 cases and I assume mostly are from India. Now divide 2000 with 7.5 billion human beings and see what is the percentage. It is negligible. I also assume many are fake stories. Let me give an example. It is a common practice in dharma that priests or saints or missionaries coin such kind of stories to enhance iman of followers.

Scientifically any child or a person can be hypnotized and taken into trance by putting words or story in his/her subconscious which when he/she awake can repeat like tape recorder.

These are cases from all over the world and across cultures. As per article below which you have obviously not read.

Researchers have studied young children’s reports of past-life memories for the last 45 years, with over 2,500 cases having been investigated worldwide, the Children's Report of Past-Life Memories: A Review reports.

More...
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/ti ... ailsignout

Over 2500 are cases that have been investigated through modern scientific techniques. There could be many many more occurrences which have either been ignored by parents or not brought to the attention of the world.

And these very small children would not have been allowed to be hypnotised by anyone by their parents.

Please read the article!

I am not sure whether you are aware of this story or not.
Around 1965/66 a woman named ZEHRA FONA in Indonesia claimed she is pregnant and carrying Mahdi Aakhir Zaman. The proof was baby was talking and saying " I am Mahdi Aakhir Zaman". Many Zaireen from different countries visited Zehra Fona's home to listen the words. She got lot of money and gifts from Zaireen for baby Mahdi. Finally she and her husband were caught. End result, there was a tiny tape recorder implanted in the private organ of that woman which kept saying ' I am Mahdi '. In modern era lots of such miracles can happen with help of Inter Net and chip technology.

The 2000 cases which you mentioned are not examples of REINCARNATION but of NEUROLOGY and NEUROSIS, these examples happened once, and not 184,000 cycles, or these can be VISIONS.

Out of 7.5 billions only 2000 cases traced out, what is the ratio?

[kmaherali]

The 2000 cases which you mentioned are not examples of REINCARNATION but of NEUROLOGY and NEUROSIS, these examples happened once, and not 184,000 cycles, or these can be VISIONS.

Out of 7.5 billions only 2000 cases traced out, what is the ratio?

Did you read the article? 2000+ cases are a sample of cases that have been studied scientifically demonstrating the phenomena of reincarnation. There could of course be millions of more happenings.

[shivaathervedi_2]

You wrote there are known 2000 cases and I assume mostly are from India. Now divide 2000 with 7.5 billion human beings and see what is the percentage. It is negligible. I also assume many are fake stories. Let me give an example. It is a common practice in dharma that priests or saints or missionaries coin such kind of stories to enhance iman of followers.

Scientifically any child or a person can be hypnotized and taken into trance by putting words or story in his/her subconscious which when he/she awake can repeat like tape recorder.

These are cases from all over the world and across cultures. As per article below which you have obviously not read.

Researchers have studied young children’s reports of past-life memories for the last 45 years, with over 2,500 cases having been investigated worldwide, the Children's Report of Past-Life Memories: A Review reports.

More...
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/ti ... ailsignout

Over 2500 are cases that have been investigated through modern scientific techniques. There could be many many more occurrences which have either been ignored by parents or not brought to the attention of the world.

And these very small children would not have been allowed to be hypnotised by anyone by their parents.

Please read the article!

I am posting a quote, posted date 17 April, 2018 on front page of Heritage by Admin which is self explanatory.

The deserted village will rehabitate and the poor will become rich. However, there is one astonishing sight: Brother, nobody can come to life after dying. [Sloko Nano]

-- Pir Shams


First Ismaili Electronic Library and Database - Welcome to the First web site dedicated to H.H. The Aga Khan and Ismailism.

Last Updated on April 17, 2018 at 15:40 EST

Please note Pir Shams had said, " Brother, nobody can come to life after dying".

To Admin and kmaherali,
You people did not answered my above post. Who is right regarding reincarnation, Admin or Pir Shams?
Pir Shams wrote and posted by Admin," Brother, nobody can come to life after dying".

[shivaathervedi_2]

The 2000 cases which you mentioned are not examples of REINCARNATION but of NEUROLOGY and NEUROSIS, these examples happened once, and not 184,000 cycles, or these can be VISIONS.

Out of 7.5 billions only 2000 cases traced out, what is the ratio?

Did you read the article? 2000+ cases are a sample of cases that have been studied scientifically demonstrating the phenomena of reincarnation. There could of course be millions of more happenings.

Other millions as you quoted were negligible that's why neglected by scientists.
These 2000 cases out of 7.5 billions does not fit in the reincarnation category, because that happened only once in the life of these persons, where as reincarnation philosophy says about 184,000 cycles. Let me ask you, does a person came in human form in first attempt or he passed through 184,000 cycles then took form of a human?

[shivaathervedi_2]

LIFE DOES NOT HAS REWIND BUTTON.

SHIVA

[kmaherali]

Other millions as you quoted were negligible that's why neglected by scientists.
These 2000 cases out of 7.5 billions does not fit in the reincarnation category, because that happened only once in the life of these persons, where as reincarnation philosophy says about 184,000 cycles. Let me ask you, does a person came in human form in first attempt or he passed through 184,000 cycles then took form of a human?

It is practically impossible to conduct thorough research on every case. There is no time or resources available. However a sample of 2000+ is statistically significant to conclude that remembrance of past lives does occur in the lives of young children.

!84,000 is just a figurative expression indicating many cycles. It is not exact. Even if the recall of previous existence happened in one existence it is significant to prove the concept of reincarnation. It does not necessarily have to happen in many lives.