QUL

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad:
It signifies the spiritual relation.
All messages came spiritually.
We still have concept of spirtual father and spiritual children very much strong and maternal love of Imam as Pir also that encompasses the status of Pir as Spiritual mother.
In zahir it is difficult to digest by a person with low Imaan but in truth trinity existed from creation and be observed in Ahle Bayt.( one entity but three facets.)
For an ignorant hydrogen and oxygen does not exist or form a parts of water but for an educated ration that composition in absolute truth and cannot be seen.

[shivaathervedi]

Two units of Hydrogen and one unit of Oxygen does make water but this theory can not be used for Noor. Prophet said," ANA WA ALIYUN MIN NOORIN WAHID." means " I and Ali are from Wahid (one) noor" therefore concept of Trinity is not primordial but developed later on by human beings. One can not be equal to 2 or 3. Relationship between a murid and Imam is a spiritual bond, it is not a one child but are millions.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad:
Almost all main religion have Trinity perception of their religion in form of pyramid with 3 name at ground and one tapering at top and two gets sublimated for tawhis only oneness remain with believer.
Hindus have trinity,Christian have trinity.Shias have Ali ,Allah and Mohammed ,which form daily part in our tasbih and Dua.
Trinity, duality are ground level perception and beliefs.
That is lower end of faith.
Other members can put extract of ginan of three name.
There is only one at top ALI ,if prophet ismeazam was known what word he meditated on was ALI ALI.
bcoz the previous phase the prophet was of Jesus ,whos last word of God was ELLI/ALI,ELLI/ALI.
so the entity was ordained even before his birth and name of God and his SPIRITUAL FATHER.
draw the simple line.
Hadith goes as To see face of ALI is worship.
Imam jaffer sadiq said we are the face of ALLAH.
So guess who is on the top of the pyramid.
I personally consider me seeing even foto of MHI as God is my submission and my prayer, at least my eyes are open.
Steve bannon wants to collect all the dust and put them in a container to moon.

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali Madad:
Almost all main religion have Trinity perception of their religion in form of pyramid with 3 name at ground and one tapering at top and two gets sublimated for tawhis only oneness remain with believer.
Hindus have trinity,Christian have trinity.Shias have Ali ,Allah and Mohammed ,which form daily part in our tasbih and Dua.
Trinity, duality are ground level perception and beliefs.
That is lower end of faith.
Other members can put extract of ginan of three name.
There is only one at top ALI ,if prophet ismeazam was known what word he meditated on was ALI ALI.
bcoz the previous phase the prophet was of Jesus ,whos last word of God was ELLI/ALI,ELLI/ALI.
so the entity was ordained even before his birth and name of God and his SPIRITUAL FATHER.
draw the simple line.
Hadith goes as To see face of ALI is worship.
Imam jaffer sadiq said we are the face of ALLAH.
So guess who is on the top of the pyramid.
I personally consider me seeing even foto of MHI as God is my submission and my prayer, at least my eyes are open.
Steve bannon wants to collect all the dust and put them in a container to moon.

You and Steve Bannon are of same nature, he is prophet of hatred, by the way he also believes in Trinity. As I wrote before, Ismailis believe in TAWHID AND NOT IN TRINITY. Concept of TAWHID is pivotal in Islam and Ismailism, which Ismailis reaffirmed through Du'a daily 3 times. You usually quoted verses of Syed Ahmad Shah which in original form are,
AHMAD HARI HARI KARANTA
PECHHE HONI HOYA SO HOYA.
It isn't ALI ALI karanta!!!
In Du'a when we prostrate say, ALLAHUMA LAKA SUJUDI WA TA'ATI and not ALI LAKA SUJUDI WA TA'ATI. You don't know Du'a or its meaning even (according to you) have shortened your Du'a by eliminating names of Imams. BUT YOU FORGOT THAT THE LIST OF IMAM NAMES START WITH NAME OF ALI!!?
Your pyramid's foundation is on 3 entities, if you remove one and send it up some where, then the result is pyramid will unbalance and fall. Ali does not have three faces, Ali is not Trimurti.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
Simple common sense needed.
One is just a name and a word. Other is dead and gone introducing name and a living entity.We have now is a liv
ing one of the three.
I need a guide in my car to reach the destination.So just formless,faceless ,unimaginable, name and one dead serves NO PURPOSE FOR MY TAWHID.
so one needs to unite with ONE.
prayers lead to taqwa ( haqiqat ).
Once truth is known ,then two names time gone & pass names are NOT NEEDED AT ALL.
All tradition material are subject to modification,the name changes but the essence does not.
Even Hari= Krishna = ALI.
I am capable of composing my own submission and poems.
Spiritual Intellect and And Baatin is still alive in Ismailsm.
Even ibaadat of the prophet was YA ALI YALI ,before revelations came to him.
Nobody is aware of his long ibaadat and what word he was meditating.BAATIN open door to all ,if ALI wishes that info to his/her blessed murid ( can be of any religion).

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali Madad.
Simple common sense needed.
One is just a name and a word. Other is dead and gone introducing name and a living entity.We have now is a liv
ing one of the three.
I need a guide in my car to reach the destination.So just formless,faceless ,unimaginable, name and one dead serves NO PURPOSE FOR MY TAWHID.
so one needs to unite with ONE.
prayers lead to taqwa ( haqiqat ).
Once truth is known ,then two names time gone & pass names are NOT NEEDED AT ALL.
All tradition material are subject to modification,the name changes but the essence does not.
Even Hari= Krishna = ALI.
I am capable of composing my own submission and poems.
Spiritual Intellect and And Baatin is still alive in Ismailsm.
Even ibaadat of the prophet was YA ALI YALI ,before revelations came to him.
Nobody is aware of his long ibaadat and what word he was meditating.BAATIN open door to all ,if ALI wishes that info to his/her blessed murid ( can be of any religion).

Revisit your previous posts where you wrote against Ginans and Pirs. In your words, Pirs are dead, 700 years old Ginan philosophy can't be adopted in modern era, now you somersaulted and wrote," Hari=Krishna=Ali. Good for you.
You wrote," one is just a name and a word, other is dead...". Can you elaborate this sentence, do you mean Ali Murtaza is dead?!, then which Ali are you adoring!!
You wrote," Even ibadat of the Prophet was Ya Ali- Ya Ali," Were you present at that time or Prophet whispered in your ears about his ibadat. This is your nonsense quote.
You wrote," I am capable of composing my own poems." What your this sentence has to do with topic of Tawhid. By the way, I shall encourage you to write poetry, BUT for God sake, do not steal a line from one movie song and other line from other song. Keep practicing one day we shall call you Qavi Nuseri.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
The name and word is Allah ,one not alive is prophet only ALI is present and alive.
Even holy book starts with single alphabet ,not easy to understand so a word of two alphabet.
Even one and few words only a baatin inspired can understa
nd .ALI/MHI is Alive for me.
I was born aage of nearly 14 this iseazam was part of breadth from my last life.
What is baatin.it not whisper but writing on the wall what an entity would meditate on.
Jesus next phase was Mohammed with last name taken of ALI ALI his God and spiritual father so new phase begin with a miracle with even ALI by his side ,that's why prophecy cycle ended.
If a team a made to modify our Tariqa and reccomdations on it.I can be good player in the team.ALI has my biodata of last 1400 years.
As per imam SMS, ignore braying & barking of Zahiris.
I am stopping too low to an absolute ignorant on Ismailism and mystic of Sufism and tawhid.

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali Madad.
The name and word is Allah ,one not alive is prophet only ALI is present and alive.
Even holy book starts with single alphabet ,not easy to understand so a word of two alphabet.
Even one and few words only a baatin inspired can understa
nd .ALI/MHI is Alive for me.
I was born aage of nearly 14 this iseazam was part of breadth from my last life.
What is baatin.it not whisper but writing on the wall what an entity would meditate on.
Jesus next phase was Mohammed with last name taken of ALI ALI his God and spiritual father so new phase begin with a miracle with even ALI by his side ,that's why prophecy cycle ended.
If a team a made to modify our Tariqa and reccomdations on it.I can be good player in the team.ALI has my biodata of last 1400 years.
As per imam SMS, ignore braying & barking of Zahiris.
I am stopping too low to an absolute ignorant on Ismailism and mystic of Sufism and tawhid.

Same rhetoric on same wave length.
From your posts when questions are asked to clarify, you dodged these questions and start singing same song.
For your information the very first revelation started with the word IQRA' and not with single alphabet as you wrote.
You are talking about your last life, I don't know how many cycles you have completed, ' OUUR ABHI TAK CHAKAR MEY HO'.
You look like inspired by Christianity and its philosophy of Trinity. I quoted a Farman of Hazar Imam which you are neglecting. Let me quote it again;

" THE PHYSICAL RELATIONSHIP OF A FATHER AND A SON IS A HUMAN CONCEPT, AND AS MUSLIMS WE ARE FORBIDDEN TO ATTACH HUMAN CONCEPTS TO GOD. THEREFORE, SUCH A RELATIONSHIP OF FATHER TO SON COULD NOT HAVE EXISTED." ( FARMAN BOMBAY, 22 NOVEMBER 1967).

If you ignore this above Farman (you call yourself an Isamili) means you are worst than braying and barking of zahirs.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad:
The word physical relation is mentioned. As Christians believe of physical status and not spiritual which was the truth.
Even MHI have relation of spiritual father and children 24x for whole of humanity.
So that does negetate the concept of trinity.
Follower go wrong on basic fundamental expression of their prophets.
If then believer who would have observed the our prophet ,what time meditated and what word he meditated on?
all under the questions were asked to an entity ,why not on how and what he meditated.
This is grratrs blunder in Islam.instead jumping onto marifat band wagon ,they jumped into sunnah bandwagon of beard size,head gear and 3/4 pyjama the entity wore to clone him even till now.
Do not replace if word spiritual is used to physical.even a word holy is used ( we ismailes see at spiritual relation.)
Has Imam SMS made denial and negetated the sptirual relationship ,that word is not used.bcoz he used that word in every farman.
Reading word and proper understanding the content and context.
Ismaili are glowing ,prospering and feel blessed bcoz the follow MHI today and not an entity said 1400 years or what act of ritual were petformed 1000 years back.,who wore,behaved what.?
WE CARE A DAM. ABOUT IT.
same Imam said about donkies who are not aware of baatin and suspect or amused by it as dogs and donkies( not same wordings used but my explanation in simple English).
Are the name at bottom of pyramid of ALI ,MOHAMMED & ALLAH are three or one ,we are believing them at tariqat level ,so three is quoted as trinity.,so correlated concept of one entity with 3 facets( not faces) link us on positive note with Chritanity and Hinduism,Shais that is almost 70% of the world population.

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali Madad:
The word physical relation is mentioned. As Christians believe of physical status and not spiritual which was the truth.
Even MHI have relation of spiritual father and children 24x for whole of humanity.
So that does negetate the concept of trinity.
Follower go wrong on basic fundamental expression of their prophets.
If then believer who would have observed the our prophet ,what time meditated and what word he meditated on?
all under the questions were asked to an entity ,why not on how and what he meditated.
This is grratrs blunder in Islam.instead jumping onto marifat band wagon ,they jumped into sunnah bandwagon of beard size,head gear and 3/4 pyjama the entity wore to clone him even till now.
Do not replace if word spiritual is used to physical.even a word holy is used ( we ismailes see at spiritual relation.)
Has Imam SMS made denial and negetated the sptirual relationship ,that word is not used.bcoz he used that word in every farman.
Reading word and proper understanding the content and context.
Ismaili are glowing ,prospering and feel blessed bcoz the follow MHI today and not an entity said 1400 years or what act of ritual were petformed 1000 years back.,who wore,behaved what.?
WE CARE A DAM. ABOUT IT.
same Imam said about donkies who are not aware of baatin and suspect or amused by it as dogs and donkies( not same wordings used but my explanation in simple English).
Are the name at bottom of pyramid of ALI ,MOHAMMED & ALLAH are three or one ,we are believing them at tariqat level ,so three is quoted as trinity.,so correlated concept of one entity with 3 facets( not faces) link us on positive note with Chritanity and Hinduism,Shais that is almost 70% of the world population.

Christians do believe in the spirituality of Jesus Christ. Did God slept with Mary and Jesus was conceived?! Understand what Imam explained. He is talking about Tawhid, oneness of God. In Ginan it is said," ALLAH EEK KHASUM SABHU KA DUNIYA USS KI SAARI."
Crossed eyed/ Squint- eyed sees three but in REAL VISION HE IS ONE AND UNIQUE. You look POLYTHEIST because you believe in 3 WHICH IS AGAINST TAWHID. You are breaking one in three parts, hence one will not be unique. If three GODS rule, the universe will collapse, because they will be fighting on JURISDICTION.
Christians and Hindus do not believe in Shia Trinity, IF ANY SUCH SHIA TRINITY EVEN EXISTS. Christians and Hindus do not believe in Allah, Muhammad,and Ali.

[shivaathervedi]

In Quran there are 5 surahs which start with the word QUL.
Surah Jinn
Surah Kafirun
Surah Ikhlas
Surah Falaq
Surah Naas

[shivaathervedi]

Following Surahs have their Title after names of following Prophets:

Surah Nuh
Surah Ibrahim
Surah Hud
Surah Yousuf
Surah Younus
Surah Muhammad

Prophet Adam mentioned in Quran 25 times
Prophet Moses 136 times
Prophet Issa (Jesus Christ) 25 times
Prophet Muhammad 4 times
Bibi Mariam (Mary) 34 times

[Admin]

Christians do believe in the spirituality of Jesus Christ. Did God slept with Mary and Jesus was conceived?!

Your account has been suspended. This is not a fish market. Once you decide to straightened your vocabulary and become a little more polite and respectful, your account will be reinstated but certainly not before 15 days.

Admin

[shivaathervedi]

Unfortunately Admin deleted my previous post. Let me try again. I was responding to person while discussion on Trinity. I quoted the following Farman of Hazar Imam.

" THE PHYSICAL RELATIONSHIP OF A FATHER AND A SON IS A HUMAN CONCEPT, AND AS MUSLIMS WE ARE FORBIDDEN TO ATTACH HUMAN CONCEPTS TO GOD. THEREFORE, SUCH A RELATIONSHIP OF FATHER TO SON COULD NOT HAVE EXISTED." ( FARMAN BOMBAY, 22 NOVEMBER 1967).

His reply was," The word physical relation is mentioned, as Christians believe of physical status and not spiritual." If we read the Farman, it negates the philosophy of Trinity or relation of father to son as Imam said.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
It was typo error,,,,,it does not negetate the theory of trinity.
Today Christian follow nearest to their prophet that love,charity and also do have meditation.
They are blessed upon mainly with white skins,income and fertile land with good weather.
They are at least 5x ahead in terms of quality of life.
They are blessed by our same ALI/MHI.
Jesus was Haqiqati entity but follower do follow that level inspite of err of understanding his relationship with God.
Mohammed was a marfiti entity ,but unfortunately followed at his shaira/sunnah level .( no baatin,no face of God,no intellect, everything no no no).
See where they are scattered,country with 15% of world sunni population ,Bangladesh have 65% of its population at household income o less than $ 85 per month,a in humane life.
It is Christian countries that has taken over million refugees ,while 05 rich gulf countries has not taken even a dozen of Arabic speaking Muslim refugees.
Where will the Grace/rahmet of God/ALI be with ?

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali Madad.
It was typo error,,,,,it does not negetate the theory of trinity.
Today Christian follow nearest to their prophet that love,charity and also do have meditation.
They are blessed upon mainly with white skins,income and fertile land with good weather.
They are at least 5x ahead in terms of quality of life.
They are blessed by our same ALI/MHI.
Jesus was Haqiqati entity but follower do follow that level inspite of err of understanding his relationship with God.
Mohammed was a marfiti entity ,but unfortunately followed at his shaira/sunnah level .( no baatin,no face of God,no intellect, everything no no no).
See where they are scattered,country with 15% of world sunni population ,Bangladesh have 65% of its population at household income o less than $ 85 per month,a in humane life.
It is Christian countries that has taken over million refugees ,while 05 rich gulf countries has not taken even a dozen of Arabic speaking Muslim refugees.
Where will the Grace/rahmet of God/ALI be with ?

Your this assertion is completely wrong that only WHITE SKIN people are blessed. It means brown, yellow, dark brown, and black population is not blessed and are cursed people. All human beings are created from same universal soul. Color of skin has no value. May be you are obsessed with white skin. ( chitti kuri sohni lagdi eh). In USA, Europe, Canada, there are millions living under poverty line. Middle class is crushed. Upto 55% of income goes into various taxes and insurances. Regarding weather 5 months are treacherous, below 0 cold, snow, and wind chill.

In subcontinent high poverty rate and low quality of life is because of unfaithful and corrupt politicians, leaders, and government servants.

Your this calculation is also wrong that Christian countries have taken in millions of refuges. They haven taken hardly 200,000 including Europe continent and Canada, where as USA has refused. Only few thousands got permission in USA during previous admin. In comparison, Jordon, Turkey, Egypt, Lebnon and some other middle eastern countries have taken in 5 MILLIONS.

[shivaathervedi]

Some one provided me an assignment book on Ginans for RC students, published by Ismailia Association for USA. That assignment book contains a GIST on 'HAQQ TU(N) PAAK TU(N) BADSHAH' Ginan.

GIST ON GINAN HAQQ TU(N) PAAK TU(N):

AL-ALI is one of the 99 names of ALLAH which means 'THE EXALTED LORD'. In this short Ginan Pir Shams praises Almighty Allah. The Exalted Lord, with a deep feeling of awe and reverence. As he sings the praise of Allah, he submits himself before his Exalted Lord, Who is above all praise, and says very humbly, I am your servant, O Exalted Lord.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad:
As I am aware and observe almost all Alwaez are at haqiqati leve of their conviction and try to balance between haqiqat and tariqat aspect in their waez.
We what we see is a disaster in Ummah trying to understand a Marfati ( prophet) at ( coomon sense) sharia level.
It would be disaster for any board try to assign a marfiti (Pits) writings to someone hanging/struggling between sharia & tariqat Muslim.
This ginan has haqiqati explanation given by every tom dick & harry Alwaez.
ITREB if they do not a find a marfiti ,then second choice would be a haqiqati Alwaez of high esteem,as per protocol refer to a coordinatier for ITREB at international level.then to IIS.
It is absolutely FAKE NEW that such thing be asked to an IGNORANT Muslim.
I strongly feel that ISMAILI 103 should check with ITREB Karachi of such issue.
Taking name of IMAM & ITREB to impress upon one's shallow view.It is at a treason.
This website should be careful when one uses MHI or ITREB name with a throw of a hat.
This is a very dangerous strategy by this member,it can do harm if let loose post amything under name of MHI & ITREB.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad:
I wish to know the EXACT wordings of this Ginan.is the word Allah is mention in it.or it word AL Ali is mentioned exactly like it.
I personally feel no Pir/Dai is worth it's salt by not expressing it absolute conviction in not expressing ALI as God directly ,relatively and partially masked way.
Ismaili association then in some country is particular period ,reissued most haqiqati material as masked presentation as they perceived in order to protect the interest of Imamat activites and most important of Ismailis staying that country.
I personally consider reciting those with absolute truth essence ,I consider those Ginans/Qasidas ( as much value as Ayats of the holy book) as NOOR and take it as MAJOR part of my prayers/humble submission.
UNDERSTAND THE GINANS/QASIDAS its essence,it become your ABSOLUTE prayer on recital or hearing it , not just words and lines for reading with academic aspect.
The scope and mode of submission in Ismailsim is just beautiful and flexible, rhythmic and melodious.

[Admin]

Hukam tera Bhi Ya Ali.

We can debate till hell freezes, it will be impossible to convince anyone. Each side is right, those who say Ali refer to Ali and those who say Ali refers to Allah. Lets put this debate to rest.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
When Pir ( a marfati entity) is submitting and praying to ALI in form of a prayer.(THAT IS HIS GOD ,FULL STOP)
Why did he not write the word YA ALI as Allah or AL Ali in the first place?
so from where does the two later words land up?
Pir/Dai primarily take absolute true name that is ALI ,then retaltive true name of/as Allah and then titles ( Imam,Moula,shah,dhani,badshah)to make prom rhythmic.

[shivaathervedi]

ITREBS and IIS follow Hidayat and instructions of Hazar Imam. Let me quote few lines from the preschool religious program developed by IIS department of education to instruct preschool RC kids. ( preschool training of kids ).
Allah made us all.
Thanking and praising Allah for His gifts.
Encouraging the children to pray to Allah.
Allah is most kind.
Allah is great.
Allah is one and He is every where.
Allah sees, hears, and knows every thing.
Ka'ba is house of Allah.
Hazar Imam is Noor of Allah.
In RC curriculum from 1st to 10th grade, there is no mention of Hari, Vishnu, Krishan, Rama, Brahma and soon.
There is no mention of Ali Allah philosophy in curriculum.
As I mentioned before in one of my postings about the current Hidayat of Hazar Imam for Indian jamaits is," REMEMBER ALLAH THROUGHOUT THE DAY." Please note he did not used the words, Hari, Brahma, Vishnu, Krishan, or Ali.

[Admin]

These books are open to be used by all Muslims and even non Muslims to know about Islam. They are not Tariqah Specific. In the same ways there are many levels of initiations but what is pubic is only for the first grade where some are stuck.

[shivaathervedi]

These books are open to be used by all Muslims and even non Muslims to know about Islam. They are not Tariqah Specific. In the same ways there are many levels of initiations but what is pubic is only for the first grade where some are stuck.

It is not the question, that books are open to Muslims and non Muslims. My point is about the Ismaili children. A kid's brain is like a neat, clean, and clear paper, what teachings or message you print on that paper will stay there for ever. For example, the ethical values which are taught to kids at their early age, shall stay with them. Same way in RC when a kid is taught about Allah, Muhammad, and Ali that will become foundation of their Iman. The IIS curriculum which I quoted is devised for RC preschool Ismaili kids.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad:
Last time stooping low to 1.66 level.
Poems on water in nursery ,nobody remember even primary level syllabus.
At higher level TRUTH the composition of water is taught ,as child at nursery level cannot absorb it.
One must read thesis on water by PhD's,they write the try symbol of water and not word water.
1 is Shariat,2 is Tariqat,3 is Haqiqat,4 is Marifat.
IIS is at 1.75 level.that tariqat material observed and in correlation with Sharia and other religion,every word they print is legaali vetted.They confine to academics,research and copy paste at zahiri level mainly.
ITREB by its name to work in tariqat boundary they are 2.5 level,that all printed material to reflect tariqat but the truth within it to preach at level 3 at verbal level in private confined within walls of JK.
the work of all Pit/Dai s pure level 3 ,who start and end with true entity that is ALI and the Allah being one of names like 259 names of God said by different prophets.
During Fatimid Era ,100 of scholar have their work at different levels,,one Marfati by name of Nadir Khusraw inspired ALI ALI then as absolute,
Today his effort of ten of millions Ismaili.
His words are part of our submission even today in JK.
while work of scholars are rusting in libraries,
No work other than Marfati words like holy book,farmans,ginans/tasbih is ALLOWED IN JK for submission.
No nursery books,work of scholars, articles ,minutes and shahiri of non Ismailia can be material for a scholar.
For a momins only and only words of marifat is ORDERED
for his/her soul.
So a person at level of 1.5 MUST NEVER TRY even to post something even at level 2,because he/she is ignorant even at level 1.51 and above.
There is a farman of MHI in my understood the bottom line that read the holy book ONLY if you can EXPLAIN THE BAATIN TO OTHER'S.
in my understanding DO NOT TRY EVEN TO READ it have no baatin blessings.(not many Ismailia read it)
If try to read it ,with no baatin blessings ,then just SHUT UP keep it yourself.
same as it is for Ayat the other form of words of marifat like farmans,ginan,qasidas should be explained even of level 3 person if does not have baatin depth,a person at level of 1.5 should stay away atleast 10 meters from all this material even at academic level,( they are also at 1.75 level )

[Admin]

These books are open to be used by all Muslims and even non Muslims to know about Islam. They are not Tariqah Specific. In the same ways there are many levels of initiations but what is pubic is only for the first grade where some are stuck.

It is not the question, that books are open to Muslims and non Muslims. My point is about the Ismaili children. A kid's brain is like a neat, clean, and clear paper, what teachings or message you print on that paper will stay there for ever. For example, the ethical values which are taught to kids at their early age, shall stay with them. Same way in RC when a kid is taught about Allah, Muhammad, and Ali that will become foundation of their Iman. The IIS curriculum which I quoted is devised for RC preschool Ismaili kids.

There is no doubt that the IIS curriculum is not perfect. It has to be supplemented by Tariqa material which never came as IIS pretends to have the monopole of Wisdom and ITREB forfeited their responsibility which was clearly defined in the Ismaili Constitution to assist in research and publication. Itreb forfeited their responsibility in killing all waezin and their independence of thinking and of acting, they forfeited their responsibility to produce publication on Ismaili Tariqa. And the various Chairman of ITREB who come to office and swear in their oath of office with a hand on the Ismaili Constitution, have never read and implemented their work as defined in the Constitution.

8.4 Each Tariqah Religious Education Board shall, under the direction and guidance Mawlana Hazar Imam:

(a) implement a comprehensive programme and curriculum of religious education at all levels within the Shia Imami Ismaili Tariqah of Islam;

(b) implement programmes for the training and upgrading of waezeen and religion teachers;

(c) engage in or support research in the relevant aspects of Islam and the Ismaili Tariqah;

(d) undertake publication of book and materials on relevant aspects of Islam and the Ismaili Tariqah;

[kmaherali]

Same way in RC when a kid is taught about Allah, Muhammad, and Ali that will become foundation of their Iman. The IIS curriculum which I quoted is devised for RC preschool Ismaili kids.

An esoteric tradition is dynamic and evolving. It is not static. The understanding evolves as a person continues on the path. The understanding that is implanted at pre-school level is not the same as that at high school or university level.

[shivaathervedi]

These books are open to be used by all Muslims and even non Muslims to know about Islam. They are not Tariqah Specific. In the same ways there are many levels of initiations but what is pubic is only for the first grade where some are stuck.

It is not the question, that books are open to Muslims and non Muslims. My point is about the Ismaili children. A kid's brain is like a neat, clean, and clear paper, what teachings or message you print on that paper will stay there for ever. For example, the ethical values which are taught to kids at their early age, shall stay with them. Same way in RC when a kid is taught about Allah, Muhammad, and Ali that will become foundation of their Iman. The IIS curriculum which I quoted is devised for RC preschool Ismaili kids.

There is no doubt that the IIS curriculum is not perfect. It has to be supplemented by Tariqa material which never came as IIS pretends to have the monopole of Wisdom and ITREB forfeited their responsibility which was clearly defined in the Ismaili Constitution to assist in research and publication. Itreb forfeited their responsibility in killing all waezin and their independence of thinking and of acting, they forfeited their responsibility to produce publication on Ismaili Tariqa. And the various Chairman of ITREB who come to office and swear in their oath of office with a hand on the Ismaili Constitution, have never read and implemented their work as defined in the Constitution.

8.4 Each Tariqah Religious Education Board shall, under the direction and guidance Mawlana Hazar Imam:

(a) implement a comprehensive programme and curriculum of religious education at all levels within the Shia Imami Ismaili Tariqah of Islam;

(b) implement programmes for the training and upgrading of waezeen and religion teachers;

(c) engage in or support research in the relevant aspects of Islam and the Ismaili Tariqah;

(d) undertake publication of book and materials on relevant aspects of Islam and the Ismaili Tariqah;

I do not understand why some members feel pain when I mention name of ALLAH. In DJ Salwat pledge section you have quoted a Farman. You wrote:
" IN KENYA MOWLANA HAZAR IMAM QUOTED FROM HOLY QURAN THAT ALLAH HAS CREATED ALL MANKIND FROM ONE SOUL." I am writing about same ALLAH who is creator of Universe.
You have mentioned article b:8.4 of constitution that each Tariqa Religious Education board shall, under the direction and guidance of Mowlana Hazar Imam...... Here it is clear that all ITREB FOLLOW GUIDANCE OF HAZAR IMAM AND ACT ACCORDINGLY.
My question is, why Imam took pain and spent millions of dollars to establish curriculum department at IIS who spent more than 10 years to create curriculum for preschool to higher classes. The changes made in curriculum on Hidayat of Imam. Compare the 1950's curriculum to today's there you will find plenty of differences.

[shivaathervedi]

Same way in RC when a kid is taught about Allah, Muhammad, and Ali that will become foundation of their Iman. The IIS curriculum which I quoted is devised for RC preschool Ismaili kids.

An esoteric tradition is dynamic and evolving. It is not static. The understanding evolves as a person continues on the path. The understanding that is implanted at pre-school level is not the same as that at high school or university level.

You are missing my point. I agree that the understanding that is implanted at preschool level is not same at higher levels. My question is about preschool religious training of 4/5 years. Why Imam started this preschool curriculum? and to teach them about ALLAH, the creator of Universe? Imam wants to put in kids mind and to print name of ALLAH on the clean sheet of their brain and soul, so that when they grow up should not go stray.

[kmaherali]

You are missing my point. I agree that the understanding that is implanted at preschool level is not same at higher levels. My question is about preschool religious training of 4/5 years. Why Imam started this preschool curriculum? and to teach them about ALLAH, the creator of Universe? Imam wants to put in kids mind and to print name of ALLAH on the clean sheet of their brain and soul, so that when they grow up should not go stray.

Of course the first concept to know is that of Allah and then Imamat and later on the mazhar, hujjat etc. It just does not end there, that the beginning.