QUL

[shivaathervedi]

If Pir Sadardin had imposed Fatimi Tariqa Namaz on convetries then we should not have been discussing it today. Du'a in sub continent and Namaz in Central Asian countries continued side by side from 13th century to 20th century till today. To day majority of Ismailis perform Namaz and it is not optional for them. It shows importance of Namaz. Imam wants uniformity in our prayer system that's why he ordered the uniform Namaz for all his followers globally. In his 2008 Farman Imam's Hidayat is clear. He said,!!

While there are fundamental practices such as Dua which are uniform for all Ismailis, there has to be room for diversity to account for the different historical contexts in which our traditions have evolved. I think the non-optionality of Namaz for those who perform it is due to the context and not according to Farman. Please quote any Farman of the Imam's making Namaz non-optional for the majority. The Farman mentions the importance of having one uniform Namaz as opposed to different versions prevailing. It does not indicate that Namaz has to be preformed uniformly across our community. The uniform Namaz is available to those who choose to practice it.

Du'a is simple and plain, can you explain what kind of mysticism is involved in Du'a. More than 90% Ismailis of sub continent do not know even meaning of Du'a, what to talk about mysticism with them!!!

Mysticism is the essence of our faith which is esoteric. Without that our faith is no different than other exoteric traditions.

Quranic Ayats, Hadiths, and Du'aiya Kalimaat used in our Du'a are mostly common with other Tariqas except few, for example, recitation of names of our Imams. ( though Bohra and Shia communities recite names of their Imams in whom they believe).!!

That is true because we are first Muslims and then Ismailis. Hence we have common ayats with other tariqahs.

In 2008 Imam ordered, but almost 10 years passed still top leadership and ITREB are confused to implement it OR they do not want to implement it!!

There has never been an order to perform Namaz. It is optional depending upon each individual.

There is majority of Ismailis performing Namaz. Namaz/ salat is not a new thing for Ismailis. Throuthout the history, throughout the ages Ismailis have been saying Namaz. Let me take in this way; there are around 1.2 million khojas (an estimate) living in different countries and they recite Du'a, where as there are 12/13 million Ismailis who perform Namaz ( like Central Asian and Chinese Ismaili). So already majority is saying Namaz which is compulsory for them. Now Imam wants to streamline Namaz/ Du'a as he did for Chirag e Roshan and Nikah. Therefore uniform Namaz will be for all Ismailis and will be compulsory globaly for all Ismailis. Imam himself and his children perform Namaz.

[kmaherali]

If Ismailis are Muslim first and Ismail second then commands of Quran and established Sunna come first is it not?

Yes so long as the Sunna varies with time and is not anchored to any particular time in history. It cannot be the Sunna of the Prophet for example.

[kmaherali]

[quote="zznoor]If Ismailis are Muslim first then they do not need order to perform Namaz. Allah's order is recorded in his book Quran and method and timing are interpreted by by various Imams for their followers based on Prophetic Sunna.[/quote]That is where there is the difference between the Shia and the Sunnis. The Shias maintain that the Imam has the absolute authority to interpret the faith and prescribe practices that are relevant to a particular time. No need for reference to the sunna of the Prophet.

[kmaherali]

There was no Mystism during Prophets time or Tabiin or Ravi to Ian time.mystism is innovation and hand to hand with performance of quranic commands.

Sufism has existed since the time of the Prophet. Prophet Muhammad used to prescribe practices in addition to the Sharia practices. He himself used to spend extensive periods at Mt. Hira for contemplative practices.

[kmaherali]

There is majority of Ismailis performing Namaz. Namaz/ salat is not a new thing for Ismailis. Throuthout the history, throughout the ages Ismailis have been saying Namaz. Let me take in this way; there are around 1.2 million khojas (an estimate) living in different countries and they recite Du'a, where as there are 12/13 million Ismailis who perform Namaz ( like Central Asian and Chinese Ismaili). So already majority is saying Namaz which is compulsory for them. Now Imam wants to streamline Namaz/ Du'a as he did for Chirag e Roshan and Nikah. Therefore uniform Namaz will be for all Ismailis and will be compulsory globaly for all Ismailis. Imam himself and his children perform Namaz.

Are you saying that the majority are practicing Namaz as substitute of Dua? If they are doing so then they are not obeying the Farmans. I have never heard a Farman of the Imam to practice Namaz as a compulsory practice.

[shivaathervedi]

There is majority of Ismailis performing Namaz. Namaz/ salat is not a new thing for Ismailis. Throuthout the history, throughout the ages Ismailis have been saying Namaz. Let me take in this way; there are around 1.2 million khojas (an estimate) living in different countries and they recite Du'a, where as there are 12/13 million Ismailis who perform Namaz ( like Central Asian and Chinese Ismaili). So already majority is saying Namaz which is compulsory for them. Now Imam wants to streamline Namaz/ Du'a as he did for Chirag e Roshan and Nikah. Therefore uniform Namaz will be for all Ismailis and will be compulsory globaly for all Ismailis. Imam himself and his children perform Namaz.

Are you saying that the majority are practicing Namaz as substitute of Dua? If they are doing so then they are not obeying the Farmans. I have never heard a Farman of the Imam to practice Namaz as a compulsory practice.

From Prophet Muhammad to Mowla Ali to Imam Ja'far to Imam Mu'iz, in Fatimid era, in pro Alamout period and post Alamout period in Central Asian countries and China (except sub continent) Ismailis have been performing Salat/Namaz. Please consult history. Still in Central Asian countries Ismailis perform Namaz. Lately Du'a is introduced in Afghanistan where Ismailis perform Namaz and recite Du'a. So far Imam has not changed routine for these countries. Imam wants uniform Tariqa globally for Ismailis. For example in Pakistan Ismailis follow Sunni Hanafi Tariqa for Namaz and in other countries it is Shia Tariqa of not folding hands. OR let me give you another example;
In eastern countries of globe Ismailis perform Eid Namaz, Juma Namaz, Janaza Namaz which were changed in late 70's are NOT YET adopted in western countries of globe, like USA, Canada, Europe, and African countries where Ismailis live, so far still they are following old Tariqa. Imam wants to streamline Tariqa in single format. Now Farman made by Imam in 2008, you tell me so far why is it not adopted or implemented. As I wrote before, top leadership is confused or they do not have courage to implement!!

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad:
the levels for person interested in religion.
The lowest is acts of ritual then comes academic of religion the highest being Inspiration of Faith.
An ignorant akin to donkey or even those assuming themselves as secularly educated and religious have trying live the past in the dying and decaying topic ,with no broad understanding and acceptance of it.
Act of ritual have evolved since humanity appeared.like tribal dance prayer, red Indians,pooja and salaat of 1400 year old or dua/salaat of Ismaili today.it mean it evovkes with time and guider of that time.those anchored in the past are mostly screwed up.Today 40% of the world population have given a good kick to it.as it is below the level of understanding and belief.
2.all prayers have different names with saying and act and latter one has two basic fundamentals in it.praise God and seek grace,mercy & forgiveness.
Nothing novelty or great victory comes out of it.
More rigid and medevial the act greater the kick out ratio will be.
If I see two basic,I observe our tasbih covers the second part nicely in simple language and ginan/qasidas (NOOR) covers the praise beautifully and are melodious. I feel our act Dua could shorten looking at the need of the hour or subsumed into grater acts of prayers like ibaadat & khidmat ( majlis levels)
3.for MHI to have somebody present a revised sallaat need to be a pir of Ahle Bayt or rasikunfilm.They are nowhere seen near MHI.
To write a book for masters level the dean would give mandat e to PhD who has won Nobel prize and not a normal master degree holders.
Earlier in an analogy I said that time taken for 5 salaat to digesting 08 size standard onions and for 03 Ismaili Salaats as one onion medium size.
I feel in future we could have even small white onion (lasanya kanda/piaz) time value act, our ginan/ qasidas and tasbih are no less than Dua in essence and value.So to digest rather enjoy and relish one small onion a day along side ginan/qasidas/tasbih ( straters like kababs,tikka,samosas) and Biryani ( farman) would be a joy.
Majority of Shariati are to average 1.5 salaat ( 2.4 onions).Most will end up digesting only 1.6 onions a week (one jumma mid day salaat) and many would call it day and be done with onions without knowing meaning of one word in it.
Over 5-6 educated Shariati cannot explain the greater meaning of Allah uakbar ,which they are supposed yell out 40 times a day.
5.there is a sect in Sunni which does meditation ,their book need to be studied how the got follow the entity to a higher level,most quacks think that entity performed salaat in very late night and extra salaat dedicated to him on special day.
Having beard of 6 inch or having cloth over head in definitely not a religious order or behaviour of one person.
One can get totally screwed up.
It is matter of time that Trump & Putin end the extreme part of screwed up section on earth,they may just do it.
When we living in 2017 ,why try to hide and esacape like ostrich putting head in sand to copy paste medevial era acts.
1400 year back ,the people could have been barbaric and I illiterates ,so rigid act of 02 hours a day may have been a right then.NOT N NEVER NOW.because people who just not kick that out but even kick that person black and blue for that.
Even in army the new recruit have run one hour daily in morning and one hour in evening with 05 kilos on load in hands kept over their head.
While a army major haves his coffee in an arm rest chair during that same time. WHY WHY? Rational mind is a must even to understand Acts of Ritual a third grade topic maybe 6-10 feet above gutter level for proper debate.

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali Madad:
the levels for person interested in religion.
The lowest is acts of ritual then comes academic of religion the highest being Inspiration of Faith.
An ignorant akin to donkey or even those assuming themselves as secularly educated and religious have trying live the past in the dying and decaying topic ,with no broad understanding and acceptance of it.
Act of ritual have evolved since humanity appeared.like tribal dance prayer, red Indians,pooja and salaat of 1400 year old or dua/salaat of Ismaili today.it mean it evovkes with time and guider of that time.those anchored in the past are mostly screwed up.Today 40% of the world population have given a good kick to it.as it is below the level of understanding and belief.
2.all prayers have different names with saying and act and latter one has two basic fundamentals in it.praise God and seek grace,mercy & forgiveness.
Nothing novelty or great victory comes out of it.
More rigid and medevial the act greater the kick out ratio will be.
If I see two basic,I observe our tasbih covers the second part nicely in simple language and ginan/qasidas (NOOR) covers the praise beautifully and are melodious. I feel our act Dua could shorten looking at the need of the hour or subsumed into grater acts of prayers like ibaadat & khidmat ( majlis levels)
3.for MHI to have somebody present a revised sallaat need to be a pir of Ahle Bayt or rasikunfilm.They are nowhere seen near MHI.
To write a book for masters level the dean would give mandat e to PhD who has won Nobel prize and not a normal master degree holders.
Earlier in an analogy I said that time taken for 5 salaat to digesting 08 size standard onions and for 03 Ismaili Salaats as one onion medium size.
I feel in future we could have even small white onion (lasanya kanda/piaz) time value act, our ginan/ qasidas and tasbih are no less than Dua in essence and value.So to digest rather enjoy and relish one small onion a day along side ginan/qasidas/tasbih ( straters like kababs,tikka,samosas) and Biryani ( farman) would be a joy.
Majority of Shariati are to average 1.5 salaat ( 2.4 onions).Most will end up digesting only 1.6 onions a week (one jumma mid day salaat) and many would call it day and be done with onions without knowing meaning of one word in it.
Over 5-6 educated Shariati cannot explain the greater meaning of Allah uakbar ,which they are supposed yell out 40 times a day.
5.there is a sect in Sunni which does meditation ,their book need to be studied how the got follow the entity to a higher level,most quacks think that entity performed salaat in very late night and extra salaat dedicated to him on special day.
Having beard of 6 inch or having cloth over head in definitely not a religious order or behaviour of one person.
One can get totally screwed up.
It is matter of time that Trump & Putin end the extreme part of screwed up section on earth,they may just do it.
When we living in 2017 ,why try to hide and esacape like ostrich putting head in sand to copy paste medevial era acts.
1400 year back ,the people could have been barbaric and I illiterates ,so rigid act of 02 hours a day may have been a right then.NOT N NEVER NOW.because people who just not kick that out but even kick that person black and blue for that.
Even in army the new recruit have run one hour daily in morning and one hour in evening with 05 kilos on load in hands kept over their head.
While a army major haves his coffee in an arm rest chair during that same time. WHY WHY? Rational mind is a must even to understand Acts of Ritual a third grade topic maybe 6-10 feet above gutter level for proper debate.

There is nothing new in your above sermon. Same rhetoric, levels, grades, onions, kabob, biryani, beard, blah, blah. Are you the proprietor of a grocery store ot kabob shop? What onions have to do with Du'a or Namaz? What Mr. Trump or Mr. Putin have to do with Ismailism? The word Namaz is used in Ginans (you discredit Ginans) and in the Farman of Hazar Imam. In one of your post you mentioned that you skip names of Imams in Du'a to make it shorten. Who authorized you? Now question arises of yours being a rational minded. Farman is an order, you don't have to use your intellect there, you just have to obey it. When tough and real questions are asked you ducked down to avoid them Mr. Rational. Your quacks are going no where.
Imam Ja'far Sadiq said." We ( Imams ) are the Rasikhun fil Ilm." So it is the Imam who make Farmans according to changing times.

[kmaherali]

From Prophet Muhammad to Mowla Ali to Imam Ja'far to Imam Mu'iz, in Fatimid era, in pro Alamout period and post Alamout period in Central Asian countries and China (except sub continent) Ismailis have been performing Salat/Namaz. Please consult history. Still in Central Asian countries Ismailis perform Namaz.

"Throughout the Jamat's history, including during the Fatimid times, a consistent feature of the Ismaili Tariqah has been the complementarity between practices that are specific to our Tariqah, and those that are part of the Sharia, common to all Muslims, albeit with denominational specificities. Examples of this are the historic co-existence between Namaz and Du'a, and the concept of private prayer and personal search, which has an important place in Islam, since it concerns the relationship of faith with life." (Dec 13th, 2008)

According to the above Farman there has always been complementarity between Sharia and Tariqah practices. At no time in our history has Namaz existed without Dua. If you are saying that Ismailis are performing Namaz without Dua, then they are not observing our Tariqah.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
This dust quote Hz Ali then given by me the saying of the same Imam ,he escapes.
Same imam jaffer sadiq has said we are the face ,eyes and ears of Allah.
It another saying he has CLEARLY DEFINED the the name & word Allah.
Read that 10 times and khutba e bayn of Hz Ali and ask yourself are they telling lies or truth ?
Today 5x salaat(08 raw onions) has 70 % disobedience ,it was 10% appx 150 years back and in next 50 years it would be go to 90 % ,that mean just praying 10% of the order 01 in two days instead of tten.That would still be great then as other religion would be once a week( like jumma midday namaaz).
It is foolish for any scholar to dig into something without any knowledge and ground reality and big data analysis to for see the trend and future assumption.
Trump is right on the ASS of the hard core Shariati's,that only the beginning.if God does not punish ,some tyrant surely will ,history has shown that many times( Genghis khan,Hitler,idi amin).
Dust must prove that he atleast quasi Ismaili if not full Ismaili. For me at my level.,I see dust at ground level or underground in volcano waitijng to hurt somebody.
In miiyabhai area I stay ,the male attendance is just 01% for morning salaat,75% for mid day jumma sallat and 90% on eid day for local residents in that area.
Disobedience to Ali+ lah = Allah is 99% in morning salaat.
It is clearly going to the Dxxs in future.
Churches are bieng closed down in many western countries as nobody comes to pray.
DEKH TEREE SANSAR KI HALAAT
KYA HOGI GAYEE ALLAH.
KITNA BADAL GAYAA INSAAN.

[shivaathervedi]

From Prophet Muhammad to Mowla Ali to Imam Ja'far to Imam Mu'iz, in Fatimid era, in pro Alamout period and post Alamout period in Central Asian countries and China (except sub continent) Ismailis have been performing Salat/Namaz. Please consult history. Still in Central Asian countries Ismailis perform Namaz.

"Throughout the Jamat's history, including during the Fatimid times, a consistent feature of the Ismaili Tariqah has been the complementarity between practices that are specific to our Tariqah, and those that are part of the Sharia, common to all Muslims, albeit with denominational specificities. Examples of this are the historic co-existence between Namaz and Du'a, and the concept of private prayer and personal search, which has an important place in Islam, since it concerns the relationship of faith with life." (Dec 13th, 2008)

According to the above Farman there has always been complementarity between Sharia and Tariqah practices. At no time in our history has Namaz existed without Dua. If you are saying that Ismailis are performing Namaz without Dua, then they are not observing our Tariqah.

You are selective in answering by avoiding my other points. First you decide is Du'a= Namaz= Salat. Your words in above post are," that Ismails are performing Namaz without Du'a, then they are not observing our Tariqa." At present Satpunthi's are reciting Du'a only and not Namaz, and Central Asian Ismailis are performing Namaz without existing Du'a!! In all Islamic Tariqas Namaz/Salat is compulsory 5 times a day. At times of Mowla Murtaza Ali, In Fatimid era Ismailis performed Namaz 5 times a day and even in post Alamut period performed 5 times and still Afghan, Chinese, and Central Asian Ismailis perform Namaz 5 times a day!!

Can you mention wordings of Du'a along with 5 times Namaz in Fatimid era? What kind of Du'a was that? Was it similar to which we are reciting today?

Regarding private prayer and personal search, it is not compulsory upon every Ismaili because Imam said," It is not obligatory upon each Ismaili to come to BK." Extra Bandagi/Ibadat of BK is not for all Ismaili (only for those who want personal search and deep spiritual knowledge) BUT
Du'a/Salat/Namaz is compulsory for all Ismailis.

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali Madad.
This dust quote Hz Ali then given by me the saying of the same Imam ,he escapes.
Same imam jaffer sadiq has said we are the face ,eyes and ears of Allah.
It another saying he has CLEARLY DEFINED the the name & word Allah.
Read that 10 times and khutba e bayn of Hz Ali and ask yourself are they telling lies or truth ?
Today 5x salaat(08 raw onions) has 70 % disobedience ,it was 10% appx 150 years back and in next 50 years it would be go to 90 % ,that mean just praying 10% of the order 01 in two days instead of tten.That would still be great then as other religion would be once a week( like jumma midday namaaz).
It is foolish for any scholar to dig into something without any knowledge and ground reality and big data analysis to for see the trend and future assumption.
Trump is right on the ASS of the hard core Shariati's,that only the beginning.if God does not punish ,some tyrant surely will ,history has shown that many times( Genghis khan,Hitler,idi amin).
Dust must prove that he atleast quasi Ismaili if not full Ismaili. For me at my level.,I see dust at ground level or underground in volcano waitijng to hurt somebody.
In miiyabhai area I stay ,the male attendance is just 01% for morning salaat,75% for mid day jumma sallat and 90% on eid day for local residents in that area.
Disobedience to Ali+ lah = Allah is 99% in morning salaat.
It is clearly going to the Dxxs in future.
Churches are bieng closed down in many western countries as nobody comes to pray.
DEKH TEREE SANSAR KI HALAAT
KYA HOGI GAYEE ALLAH.
KITNA BADAL GAYAA INSAAN.

Merchant of ONIONS, Volcanic dust has buried your brain faculties. Once I asked you before (you did not replied),again I am asking you, WHO COMPILED KHUTBA E BAYANIAH, IN WHICH CENTURY, AND NAME OF COMPILER? LET ME SEE WHAT YOUR RESEARCH IS? kHUTBA E BAYANIAH was written centuries after NAHJUL BALAGAH.

You have quoted a couplet from a movie, original words are:
DEKH TEREY SANSAR KI HAALAT
KIA HO GAI BAGHWAAN....
I don't know in which Baghwaan you believe! If you believe in ALLAH means you are on Sirat e Mustaqeem.

You wrote," I live amongst Miya(n)bhais and their attendance is very low at time of morning prayers." My question to you, how many khojas are present prorie in BK and later on for morning Du'a/Namaz? Sure the attendance is worst than the Miya(n)bhais.

You wrote," If God does not punish, some tyrant surely will, history has shown it many times like Genghis khan, Hitler, Idi Amin." Mr. N, Helagu Khan Grand son of Genghis Khan massacred 70/80 thousand Ismaili, were there poor Ismailis Shariati? Hitler ordered to eliminate Jews, were they Shariatis? Idi Amin kicked out khojas were they Shariatis? Mowla Ali practiced Shariah, Hazar Imam and his children perform Namaz according to Hanafi Tariqa, Do you call them Shariati?

Yes I am DUST OF ABU TURAB'S FEET, and I think you even don't know who was ABU TURAB!!

[kmaherali]

You are selective in answering by avoiding my other points. First you decide is Du'a= Namaz= Salat. Your words in above post are," that Ismails are performing Namaz without Du'a, then they are not observing our Tariqa." At present Satpunthi's are reciting Du'a only and not Namaz, and Central Asian Ismailis are performing Namaz without existing Du'a!! In all Islamic Tariqas Namaz/Salat is compulsory 5 times a day. At times of Mowla Murtaza Ali, In Fatimid era Ismailis performed Namaz 5 times a day and even in post Alamut period performed 5 times and still Afghan, Chinese, and Central Asian Ismailis perform Namaz 5 times a day!!.

Namaz is not compulsory and no Sharia practices are compulsory in our Tariqah and indeed in Islam, as per Qur'an: "There is no compulsion in religion." According to the Farman, Dua is a Tariqah practice and Namaz is a Sharia practice there is a difference. There is no compulsion to join any tariqah in Islam but if you choose to join a tariqah then there are compulsory practices such as Dua. The Satpanthis are reciting Dua as a compulsory practice and Namaz as optional. It is OK to say Namaz so long as it is not a substitute for Dua. Dua is compulsory for all Ismailis regardless of the background.

Can you mention wordings of Du'a along with 5 times Namaz in Fatimid era? What kind of Du'a was that? Was it similar to which we are reciting today?.

Many esoteric traditions are not recorded and it would not be possible to say what Tariqah practices existed 1000 years. For Ismailis it is enough to accept the Imam's Farman that there were Tariqah practices during the Fatimid period. The form and content is irrelevant.

Regarding private prayer and personal search, it is not compulsory upon every Ismaili because Imam said," It is not obligatory upon each Ismaili to come to BK." Extra Bandagi/Ibadat of BK is not for all Ismaili (only for those who want personal search and deep spiritual knowledge) BUT
Du'a/Salat/Namaz is compulsory for all Ismailis.

Dua is compulsory, Namaz is optional. Please provide a Farman stating that Namaz is compulsory.

[kmaherali]

You are selective in answering by avoiding my other points. First you decide is Du'a= Namaz= Salat. Your words in above post are," that Ismails are performing Namaz without Du'a, then they are not observing our Tariqa." At present Satpunthi's are reciting Du'a only and not Namaz, and Central Asian Ismailis are performing Namaz without existing Du'a!! In all Islamic Tariqas Namaz/Salat is compulsory 5 times a day. At times of Mowla Murtaza Ali, In Fatimid era Ismailis performed Namaz 5 times a day and even in post Alamut period performed 5 times and still Afghan, Chinese, and Central Asian Ismailis perform Namaz 5 times a day!!.

Namaz is not compulsory and no Sharia practices are compulsory in our Tariqah and indeed in Islam, as per Qur'an: "There is no compulsion in religion." According to the Farman, Dua is a Tariqah practice and Namaz is a Sharia practice there is a difference. There is no compulsion to join any tariqah in Islam but if you choose to join a tariqah then there are compulsory practices such as Dua. The Satpanthis are reciting Dua as a compulsory practice and Namaz as optional. It is OK to say Namaz so long as it is not a substitute for Dua. Dua is compulsory for all Ismailis regardless of the background.

Can you mention wordings of Du'a along with 5 times Namaz in Fatimid era? What kind of Du'a was that? Was it similar to which we are reciting today?.

Many esoteric traditions are not recorded and it would not be possible to say what Tariqah practices existed 1000 years. For Ismailis it is enough to accept the Imam's Farman that there were Tariqah practices during the Fatimid period. The form and content is irrelevant.

Regarding private prayer and personal search, it is not compulsory upon every Ismaili because Imam said," It is not obligatory upon each Ismaili to come to BK." Extra Bandagi/Ibadat of BK is not for all Ismaili (only for those who want personal search and deep spiritual knowledge) BUT
Du'a/Salat/Namaz is compulsory for all Ismailis.

Dua is compulsory, Namaz is optional. Please provide a Farman stating that Namaz is compulsory.

[shivaathervedi]

You are selective in answering by avoiding my other points. First you decide is Du'a= Namaz= Salat. Your words in above post are," that Ismails are performing Namaz without Du'a, then they are not observing our Tariqa." At present Satpunthi's are reciting Du'a only and not Namaz, and Central Asian Ismailis are performing Namaz without existing Du'a!! In all Islamic Tariqas Namaz/Salat is compulsory 5 times a day. At times of Mowla Murtaza Ali, In Fatimid era Ismailis performed Namaz 5 times a day and even in post Alamut period performed 5 times and still Afghan, Chinese, and Central Asian Ismailis perform Namaz 5 times a day!!.

Namaz is not compulsory and no Sharia practices are compulsory in our Tariqah and indeed in Islam, as per Qur'an: "There is no compulsion in religion." According to the Farman, Dua is a Tariqah practice and Namaz is a Sharia practice there is a difference. There is no compulsion to join any tariqah in Islam but if you choose to join a tariqah then there are compulsory practices such as Dua. The Satpanthis are reciting Dua as a compulsory practice and Namaz as optional. It is OK to say Namaz so long as it is not a substitute for Dua. Dua is compulsory for all Ismailis regardless of the background.

Can you mention wordings of Du'a along with 5 times Namaz in Fatimid era? What kind of Du'a was that? Was it similar to which we are reciting today?.

Many esoteric traditions are not recorded and it would not be possible to say what Tariqah practices existed 1000 years. For Ismailis it is enough to accept the Imam's Farman that there were Tariqah practices during the Fatimid period. The form and content is irrelevant.

Regarding private prayer and personal search, it is not compulsory upon every Ismaili because Imam said," It is not obligatory upon each Ismaili to come to BK." Extra Bandagi/Ibadat of BK is not for all Ismaili (only for those who want personal search and deep spiritual knowledge) BUT
Du'a/Salat/Namaz is compulsory for all Ismailis.

Dua is compulsory, Namaz is optional. Please provide a Farman stating that Namaz is compulsory.

Once again you are selective in answering. You did not gave your opinion about the question I asked you. Let me try once again. I asked, Is Du'a= Namaz = Salat? Also, what is Shariyah in your opinion?

Prophet and his followers practiced 5 times Namaz/Salat, Mowla Ali and his followers practiced Salat 5 times, Imam Ja'far and his followers practiced Salat 5 times, was that practice optional or Fardhiyaat?

Either you misunderstood or you are misguiding the Ayat of Quran in relation to Shariyah. You wrote," No Shariyah practices are compulsory in our Tariqa, and indeed in Islam, as per Quran," There is no compulsion in religion." Please note, Quran repeatedly says "AQIMUS SALAT WA A'TU ZAKAAT". Order of Salat is there from Allah but if some one does not want to practice, it is up to him and there is no compulsion on that person to practice.

Let me ask you, Is Janaza Namaz, Eid Namaz, Juma Namaz, Ziarat of Mayyet, Khutab e Nikah Shariyati practices or not? Or you consider them as Ma'rifati Practices? Please pay attention to my statement,I wrote," At present Satpunthi Ismailis are reciting only Du'a and not Namaz, where as Central Asian /Chinese Ismailis are performing Namaz without existing Du'a." Now according to your explanation Sutpunthis are Tariqatis and Central Asians are Shariyatis.

It is strange that all practices and rituals of Fatimid era are almost recorded except format of Du'a in that period!! According to Farman, Namaz and Du'a existed both together then today we just recite Du'a and forget Namaz. Please note in FATIMID ERA NAMAZ/SALAT WAS COMPULSORY AND NOT OPTIONAL.
In 2008 Farman Imam has not mentioned that Namaz will be optional, this notion is only coming from your side.

[zznoor]

Please stop hiding behind
"There is no compulsion in religion."
It is not ment for Muslims so they can willy nilly practice innovative Rituals and say their Tariqa is correct

Just google "There is no compulsion in religion." and search for Yafseer of this Aya and you will find that this is ment for not forcing non Muslim to Islam

Here is Wikipedia on this

Quote:
Verse (ayah) 256 of Al-Baqara is one of the relatively well-known verses in the Islamic scripture, the Qur'an.[1] The verse includes the phrase that "there is no compulsion in religion."[2] Immediately after making this statement, the Qur'an offers a rationale for it: Since the revelation has, through explanation, clarification, and repetition, clearly distinguished the path of guidance from the path of misguidance, it is now up to people to choose the one or the other path.[1] This verse comes right after the Throne Verse.[3]

The overwhelming majority of Muslim scholars consider that verse to be a Medinan one,[4][5][6] when Muslims lived in their period of political ascendance,[7][8] and to be non abrogated,[9] including Ibn Taymiyya,[10] Ibn Qayyim,[11] Al-Tabari,[12] Abi ʿUbayd,[13] Al-Jaṣṣās,[14] Makki bin Abi Talib,[15] Al-Nahhas,[16] Ibn Jizziy,[17] Al-Suyuti,[18] Ibn Ashur,[19] Mustafa Zayd,[20] and many others.[ According to all the theories of language elaborated by Muslim legal scholars, the Qur'anic proclamation that 'There is no compulsion in religion. The right path has been distinguished from error' is as absolute and universal a statement as one finds, and so under no condition should an individual be forced to accept a religion or belief against his or her will according to the Quran.

The meaning of the principle that there is no compulsion in religion was not limited to freedom of individuals to choose their own religion. Islam also provided non-Muslims with considerable economic, cultural, and administrative rights.

End Quote

[Admin]

It is good to do copy paste from time to time, no doubt. But it has to mean something and should be related to the subject matter.

As you know we have our Imam to guide us while you have been looking for a long time for the Right Path which you have not been able to find up to now. I salute your patient search.

There is no compulsion in faith. Only Ismailis can afford to say this. For all other branches of Islam, it comes to some chinese charabia as this concep is too strong and too complicated for them to understand.

[shivaathervedi]

Please stop hiding behind
"There is no compulsion in religion."
It is not ment for Muslims so they can willy nilly practice innovative Rituals and say their Tariqa is correct

Just google "There is no compulsion in religion." and search for Yafseer of this Aya and you will find that this is ment for not forcing non Muslim to Islam

Here is Wikipedia on this

Quote:
Verse (ayah) 256 of Al-Baqara is one of the relatively well-known verses in the Islamic scripture, the Qur'an.[1] The verse includes the phrase that "there is no compulsion in religion."[2] Immediately after making this statement, the Qur'an offers a rationale for it: Since the revelation has, through explanation, clarification, and repetition, clearly distinguished the path of guidance from the path of misguidance, it is now up to people to choose the one or the other path.[1] This verse comes right after the Throne Verse.[3]

The overwhelming majority of Muslim scholars consider that verse to be a Medinan one,[4][5][6] when Muslims lived in their period of political ascendance,[7][8] and to be non abrogated,[9] including Ibn Taymiyya,[10] Ibn Qayyim,[11] Al-Tabari,[12] Abi ʿUbayd,[13] Al-Jaṣṣās,[14] Makki bin Abi Talib,[15] Al-Nahhas,[16] Ibn Jizziy,[17] Al-Suyuti,[18] Ibn Ashur,[19] Mustafa Zayd,[20] and many others.[ According to all the theories of language elaborated by Muslim legal scholars, the Qur'anic proclamation that 'There is no compulsion in religion. The right path has been distinguished from error' is as absolute and universal a statement as one finds, and so under no condition should an individual be forced to accept a religion or belief against his or her will according to the Quran.

The meaning of the principle that there is no compulsion in religion was not limited to freedom of individuals to choose their own religion. Islam also provided non-Muslims with considerable economic, cultural, and administrative rights.

End Quote

ASAK
LA IKRAH FI DIN. (Al Baqarah 256)
There is no compulsion in DEEN.
The word DEEN in broad sense covers all aspects of life. In Hebrew and Arabic DEEN also mean LAW, (laws of God or laws of Nature). Allah's DEEN is only one and that is Islam starting with Prophet Adam (other religions are man made). As DEEN is only one and laws of Nature are equal for all, hence in my opinion there is no need of conversion or compulsion to change Deen. Quran has not attached any instructions with this particular Ayat, it is opened to be understood in many ways.
As I understand Saum, Salat, Zakat, Hajj and other rituals come under umbrella of HUQQU ALLAH. These are related to Allah. If some one neglects or disobeying, it is in between Allah and that person. Allah will take care of it. Quran has not mentioned any physical punishment for that. Allah has not given any authority to any individual, Mulla, or government to punish, thrash, beat, or kill because he is not performing these acts prescribed by Allah in Quran and this is where Quran says, no compulsion or force should be applied on any person.

[zznoor]

ASAK
LA IKRAH FI DIN. (Al Baqarah 256)
There is no compulsion in DEEN.
The word DEEN in broad sense covers all aspects of life. In Hebrew and Arabic DEEN also mean LAW, (laws of God or laws of Nature). Allah's DEEN is only one and that is Islam starting with Prophet Adam (other religions are man made). As DEEN is only one and laws of Nature are equal for all, hence in my opinion there is no need of conversion or compulsion to change Deen. Quran has not attached any instructions with this particular Ayat, it is opened to be understood in many ways.
As I understand Saum, Salat, Zakat, Hajj and other rituals come under umbrella of HUQQU ALLAH. These are related to Allah. If some one neglects or disobeying, it is in between Allah and that person. Allah will take care of it. Quran has not mentioned any physical punishment for that. Allah has not given any authority to any individual, Mulla, or government to punish, thrash, beat, or kill because he is not performing these acts prescribed by Allah in Quran and this is where Quran says, no compulsion or force should be applied on any person.

ASAK
I am sure you read Quran.
Immediately after Al Fateha next chapter is Baqrah and beginning goes like this

2:1. Alef Lam Mim

2:2 This is the Book (Quran); there is no doubt about it, a guidance For the God-fearing.

2:3 Those who believe in what lies beyond the reach of human perception (Al Gaib), observe /establish Prayer/Salat and give of what We bestow upon them.

2:4 Those who believe in what has been revealed to you and what was revealed before you, and are certain of the Hereafter.

2:5 Those follow their Lord’s guidance, and they shall surely prosper.

2:6 For the unbelievers, it is alike whether you forewarn them or not, they will not accept the faith.

2:7 God has sealed their hearts and ears; their eyes are covered; and a grievous punishment awaits them

Deen was given to Bawa Adam and Salat, swam, Zakat and Hujj were performed. Whenever innovations were introduced Allah sent New Nabi to correct it. Muhammad SAW was last prophet and as per Quran there will be no Prophet after him.

So we Muslims (both Shia and Sunni) observe commands of Quran and Sunna to best of ability and with some differences.

Now Ayas I posted says you will be successful if you observe Salat and Zakat and also says those who are dis obidient Grivious punishment awaits them"

I believe Salat is Fird on every believing Muslim and no Ulil Amar has authority to nagate it.
There is no "Ati" in front of Ulil Amar in 4:59. Very first qualification to become Ulil Amar is to Obay Allah(Quran). And Prophet (his Sunnah).

Islam is simple and easy to observe.
Wasalam

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
The word ghiab in disappearance and hidden whose power in beyond comprehension is Batin.
Major translation error.
There have no prophets ,only linegse of Imamat.
Entity was send to introduce ALI & QURAN .
two things.
If book is kept on table as student have to graduate themselves is a disaster by itself.
99 % have secrewed up by wrong reading and feeling lost ,fighting amongst themselves and seen as Paris dogs by the Western world.
99% do not obey the morning time salaat,it mean it is 99% FAILURE in class

[zznoor]

Allah will take care of it. Quran has not mentioned any physical punishment for that. Allah has not given any authority to any individual, Mulla, or government to punish, thrash, beat, or kill because he is not performing these acts prescribed by Allah in Quran and this is where Quran says, no compulsion or force should be applied on any person.

You are correct but there is also a authentic Hadith of Prophet saying he would like to have Adhnan called and those who do not show up for Salat without excuse then he desired to go to their houses burn them.

[zznoor]

Ya Ali Madad.
The word ghiab in disappearance and hidden whose power in beyond comprehension is Batin.
Major translation error.
go to this page and see more than 40 translation no body translate it as batin mostly as "unseen "
(http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/3/default.htm)

There have no prophets ,only linegse of Imamat.
Entity was send to introduce ALI & QURAN .
two things.
muslim believe in Prophets there is no Imamate in Quran. Please post a Aya or a Hadith where it says " There will be Imams after Prophet or Muhammad your job is to introduce Ali and Quran.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
In holy book,God say he destroyed the civilaztion all of their population expect a handful in many prophet time.
Thus hint that majority were destinated to hell and not necessarily majority is right.
The word IMAM BE MUBEEN US CLEARLY MENTIONED IN QURAN.
Silly excuse of translation, bcoz challenging it to barbaric and savage is not easy.
There are many hadith where prophet said about ALI ,pls see Shia site .one I recollect I ma leaving behind two weight things Quran andy progeny and Ali is leader whose leader I am ,
Others someone can copy paste.
The hadith of entity to burn the houses is FAKE ,HE came rehmet ul almeen ,a grace for humanity and not as fury and absolute dictator to burn houses.
Based on max 1.5% shariatis just respecting the adhaan for morning prayer.
Then 98.50% should be burnt in their houses.
All these toxic messages & misunderstanding stamps Shariati as born as cursed ,either to burn somebody or get burned.
In any court of law of any any country ANY ANY RELIGIOUS book is higher than their constitution.
Court want eye witness for any hear say and printed material presented with evidence.so talk with no copy paste but ground reality of today and not escape with fake writings of quacks.
So one has to today compare in 2017 or future ,who are true or who is false.?
We do not have order if we do not attend JK ,THERE is any even soft punishment.We can pray in our house,in leiu of Dua time ,even tasbih acts as prayer.
Do you think that you should be burnt down in your house if just missed a salaat.
This is most savage and barbaric hadith I have read,this is absolute genocide.
If all fake hadiths and behaviour of the entity is shoved into xyz hole.than what MHI described the Entity at Seerat conference stands absolute truth.
Read the holy book again were the majority of mankind was decimated by God & saved few minority true followers with their prophet.
time is already telling who are cursed and who are blessed, it may take max 100 years more with zero illiterate population in Ummah ( presently around 25% currently.and new generation and judgement of children yet to be born in next and beyond 30 years from Now.
Today 40% feel religion is fake,imagine 100 years ,draw a tending line.WRUTING IS ON YHE WALL.
no religion anchored in past WILL survive.
These are words of Imam SMS ,that what is seen in reality ,so will Imam will open up time.
See MHI speech in uae,what will happen to Muslim belt in just 20 year.there is more bad to worse new is store for them.

[shivaathervedi]

ASAK
LA IKRAH FI DIN. (Al Baqarah 256)
There is no compulsion in DEEN.
The word DEEN in broad sense covers all aspects of life. In Hebrew and Arabic DEEN also mean LAW, (laws of God or laws of Nature). Allah's DEEN is only one and that is Islam starting with Prophet Adam (other religions are man made). As DEEN is only one and laws of Nature are equal for all, hence in my opinion there is no need of conversion or compulsion to change Deen. Quran has not attached any instructions with this particular Ayat, it is opened to be understood in many ways.
As I understand Saum, Salat, Zakat, Hajj and other rituals come under umbrella of HUQQU ALLAH. These are related to Allah. If some one neglects or disobeying, it is in between Allah and that person. Allah will take care of it. Quran has not mentioned any physical punishment for that. Allah has not given any authority to any individual, Mulla, or government to punish, thrash, beat, or kill because he is not performing these acts prescribed by Allah in Quran and this is where Quran says, no compulsion or force should be applied on any person.

ASAK
I am sure you read Quran.
Immediately after Al Fateha next chapter is Baqrah and beginning goes like this

2:1. Alef Lam Mim

2:2 This is the Book (Quran); there is no doubt about it, a guidance For the God-fearing.

2:3 Those who believe in what lies beyond the reach of human perception (Al Gaib), observe /establish Prayer/Salat and give of what We bestow upon them.

2:4 Those who believe in what has been revealed to you and what was revealed before you, and are certain of the Hereafter.

2:5 Those follow their Lord’s guidance, and they shall surely prosper.

2:6 For the unbelievers, it is alike whether you forewarn them or not, they will not accept the faith.

2:7 God has sealed their hearts and ears; their eyes are covered; and a grievous punishment awaits them

Deen was given to Bawa Adam and Salat, swam, Zakat and Hujj were performed. Whenever innovations were introduced Allah sent New Nabi to correct it. Muhammad SAW was last prophet and as per Quran there will be no Prophet after him.

So we Muslims (both Shia and Sunni) observe commands of Quran and Sunna to best of ability and with some differences.

Now Ayas I posted says you will be successful if you observe Salat and Zakat and also says those who are dis obidient Grivious punishment awaits them"

I believe Salat is Fird on every believing Muslim and no Ulil Amar has authority to nagate it.
There is no "Ati" in front of Ulil Amar in 4:59. Very first qualification to become Ulil Amar is to Obay Allah(Quran). And Prophet (his Sunnah).

Islam is simple and easy to observe.
Wasalam

ASAK

You are right, Islam is " DEENUL YUSER WA LA 'UCER."
I am a learner and not a scholar but shall try to explain how I understand the first RUKU' of Surah Bakarah you quoted.

ALIF LAAM MEEM; Al Bakarah starts with 3 alphabets. These are 'HURUF E MUQATI'AAT'. There are total 14 such alphabets used in Quran. So far, till today, for sure no one knows what they mean! There are scores of speculations in Tafsir books, out of which I think 2 are note worthy in my opinion. First, these alphabets are related to Prophet and are titles or names of Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Second, that these are CODED messages delivered to Prophet. I have an idea (may be others have thought of it) that an IT specialist by inducing these 14 HURUF E MUAQATI'AAT using logarthims figure out how many sentences can be formed out of these 14 alphabets (may be hundreds of thousands) and see how many are meaningful, that how one can decode the messages.

In second Ayat," ZALIKAL KITABU LA RAIB FIHI" the word Quran is not used in this Ayat but 'AL KITAB' is used, and ISMUL ISHARAH 'ZALIK' is used which means in Arabic " THAT". If the word Quran have been used then ISMUL ISHARAH should have been "HAZA" means "THIS" (book). Please notice the difference. Quran uses the words which means " THAT BOOK IN WHICH THERE IS NO DOUBT". In my opinion ZALIKAL KITAB means totality of books or revelations which came from God for GUIDANCE of human beings in different times. In Ayat 2:4 of Al Bakarah is written; "WALAZEEN YOU'MINUNA BIMA UNZILA ILAIKA WA MA UNZILA MIN QABLIK." Means they belive in what is reveled to you and in what was reveled before you. This Ayat is confirming what I explained above.

Salat is compulsory, but Salat in Arabic also means DU'A, and Satpunthi Ismaili of subcontinent usually use the word DU'A in place of Salat. It is true who obeys Allah, His Rasul and Ulil Amr shall be rewarded by Allah, and those who do not obey are like blind, deaf persons whose hearts are curtailed
and are gone astray.

We can not use the the word GAIB for Allah because he is PRESENT all the times. GAIB means which is not present. If God disappears then who will take care of universe. Please refer to Ayat e NOOR. Some poet has explained this notion in very beautiful way, he said;
NAZAR MEI(N) RAHTEY HO PAR NAZAR NAHI(N) AATEY
In this Ayat GAIB means Angels, Paradise, Hell, Jinns, and other not visible creation of Allah.

[shivaathervedi]

Allah will take care of it. Quran has not mentioned any physical punishment for that. Allah has not given any authority to any individual, Mulla, or government to punish, thrash, beat, or kill because he is not performing these acts prescribed by Allah in Quran and this is where Quran says, no compulsion or force should be applied on any person.

You are correct but there is also a authentic Hadith of Prophet saying he would like to have Adhnan called and those who do not show up for Salat without excuse then he desired to go to their houses burn them.

AADAAB;

You are well aware that hundreds of thousands FAKE Hadiths were circulating and are circulating in Muslim world. The Hadith which go against Quran is not VALID. Quran declared Prophet as RAHMATUL LIL AALAMEEN, then how come will he order that 'who do not show up for Salat in mosque their houses should be burnt'. One can understand, in that house could be living wife, children, elderly or relatives. Does he wanted to make a nation of homeless people? Prophet never cursed any person, how come RAHMAT SHOULD TURN INTO ZAHMAT. Prophet was to show Sirat e Mustaqeem patiently, humbly and with love.

[nuseri]

YA ALI MADAD:
the holy book has clearly mentions the deep undetstanding of the book by few thru ages to come.
It does not stast with Bismillah or Auzubillah,etc.
The entity of God being absolute and singular where NOOR is concerned ,but the humanity has belief of Trinity of last religion
Alif stands for ALI ( HOLY FATHER)
laam stand for jibraei ( holy spirit).
Mim stands for Mohammed ( holy son).
The baatin of the holy book is not easy.
It is a noble search ,even the name & word Allah merit a search. which imam Jaffer Sadiq has decoded and explained nicely.
Toxic n fake hadith give rise radicals and mislead believers and make them getaway in the name of an entity.
Most fake and naarow hadith is used by mullah to fear God make humans into barbaric and vegetated minds.
While message of all prophets was to love God ,one can only love if one can visualize and desire to see God.
If God was formless, headless,useless,and all thing less ,how can one love it ?
It is best to die as IMAANI ( faithful)
Better to die as Dharmi ( religious)
Good to die as namaazi ( obligated only to rituals).
Best is bury any topic on Act of Rituals ,if a scholar wishes to live in future and not in past.

[zznoor]

Allah will take care of it. Quran has not mentioned any physical punishment for that. Allah has not given any authority to any individual, Mulla, or government to punish, thrash, beat, or kill because he is not performing these acts prescribed by Allah in Quran and this is where Quran says, no compulsion or force should be applied on any person.

You are correct but there is also a authentic Hadith of Prophet saying he would like to have Adhnan called and those who do not show up for Salat without excuse then he desired to go to their houses burn them.

AADAAB;

You are well aware that hundreds of thousands FAKE Hadiths were circulating and are circulating in Muslim world. The Hadith which go against Quran is not VALID. Quran declared Prophet as RAHMATUL LIL AALAMEEN, then how come will he order that 'who do not show up for Salat in mosque their houses should be burnt'. One can understand, in that house could be living wife, children, elderly or relatives. Does he wanted to make a nation of homeless people? Prophet never cursed any person, how come RAHMAT SHOULD TURN INTO ZAHMAT. Prophet was to show Sirat e Mustaqeem patiently, humbly and with love.

The hadith is as follows and is graded Shahih:

Abu Hurayra (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates: "the Messenger of Allah said, ‘No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the morning and the night prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves in the mosques even if they had to crawl. Certainly I decided to order the muadhdhin to pronounce adhan and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.’"
(Bukhari, Adhan 29, Husumat 5, Ahkam 52; Muslim, Masajid 252, (651); Muwatta, Salatu'l-Jama'a 3, (1, 129-130); Abu Dawud, Salat 47, (548, 549); Tirmidhi, Salat 162, (217); Nasai, Imamah 49, (2, 107).


The hadith should be evaluated in the form of encouraging people to pray in congregation (one earns multiple Ajar in congregational Salat) and threatening those who abandon praying in congregation. The Prophet did not utter those words because he wanted to burn the houses of people. As a matter of fact, if he wanted to do so, he could have done it. That is, he preferred those words in order to express the importance of the issue. We also use different expressions for the important things in our daily lives. 
 

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali Madad.
The word ghiab in disappearance and hidden whose power in beyond comprehension is Batin.
Major translation error.
go to this page and see more than 40 translation no body translate it as batin mostly as "unseen "
(http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/3/default.htm)

There have no prophets ,only linegse of Imamat.
Entity was send to introduce ALI & QURAN .
two things.
muslim believe in Prophets there is no Imamate in Quran. Please post a Aya or a Hadith where it says " There will be Imams after Prophet or Muhammad your job is to introduce Ali and Quran.

ASAK

You wrote," Post a Ayah or a Hadith where it says, there will be Imam........"

Please refer to following Ayats;

" AND REMEMBER THAT ABRAHIM WAS TRIED BY HIS LORD WITH CERTAIN COMMANDS. WHICH HE FULFILLED. HE (GOD) SAID, I WILL MAKE YOU THE IMAM OF PEOPLE" (AL BAQARAH-124).

" WHEN WE SHALL CALL ALL GROUPS OF PEOPLE THROUGH THEIR IMAM." 17/71

" WE HAVE APPOINTED THEM IMAMS AND THEY ARE TO GUIDE WITH OUR ORDERS." 21/73

[nuseri]

To zznoor: Ya Ali Madad.
This ABSOLUTE FAKE HADITH is signifies an order.it give rise to three word totally opposite to an entity and ethics of Islam that is FEAR,ANGER AND REVENGE are signs of a devil/satanic person.
All person who narrate and complied fake hadith knowingly would be rotting in HELL.nothing less.
Holy book was one man show that is Ali+lah= Allah but byproduct of three entities God,Angel and prophet.
Composer,transmitter and receiver & speaker.
I try to visualize you wrapped in black burqa and bending at 45/60/90 degrees to bless yourself.
You are a fan of majority. Use your educated mind to observe the below.Out of 72 firqa one will on true path and 71 will go astray ,which is majority 71 and not 01.
If 72 children start as nursery and only becomes a PhD other dropout on the way up.
The entity was entity of marifat ,means 4 steps up.so lowest leve bunchl may be the highest and dropouts on the way up.
For one PhD status ,all has to go right from the word Go that syllabus, uprading of education as per upward movement and living coach to guide it to the top.
There is also mastering the art of giving for cause of God and humanity,that is inbuilt blessing and not a burden.
Why a college fees in community college is Nebraska is 5 times the fees of private premium school in Boston.the degree awarded is the same.result is the end quality of life for next 50 years for each of them.( advantage of 5x more offerings)
If this hadith is taken as admissible evidence than USA would ban all 53 countries and not just 07 and repack the existing those with residence rights.
How can you make 85% of fake hadith's a religious order for you?
Your choice amuses me.
Would your child or grand child follow your rubbish belief?
The majority of Ummah is lead by uneducated Mullah,moulanas who does not even know what Alif,laam,min mean in the first page.
Any true book codes the author, writer or transmitter and presenter.either in beggining or at the end.
That validates the work and makes it bonafide.
Even court of law all three aspect of the documents and each party to document can contested relating to its content.

[shivaathervedi]

YA ALI MADAD:

The entity of God being absolute and singular where NOOR is concerned ,but the humanity has belief of Trinity of last religion
Alif stands for ALI ( HOLY FATHER)
laam stand for jibraei ( holy spirit).
Mim stands for Mohammed ( holy son).

REPLY:
Ismailis do not believe in TRINITY OR TRIMURTI (it may be your belief because you come from that background). Let me quote Farman of Hazar Imam;
" THE PHYSICAL RELATIONSHIP OF A FATHER AND A SON IS A HUMAN CONCEPT, AND AS MUSLIMS WE ARE FORBIDDEN TO ATTACH HUMAN CONCEPTS TO GOD. THEREFORE, SUCH A RELATIONSHIP OF FATHER TO SON COULD NOT HAVE EXISTED." ( FARMAN BOMBAY, 22 NOVEMBER 1967).