Even if the entire duration of the world's existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left before the Day of Judgment, God (Arabic:Allah) will expand that day to such a length of time, as to accommodate the kingdom of a person out of my Ahl al-Bayt who will be called by my name. He will then fill the Earth with peace and justice as it will have been filled with injustice and tyranny before then.
Sahih Tirmidhi, V2, P86, V9, P74-75.
The 6th Imam, Jafar al-Sadiq, is reported to have said:
*Before the appearance of the one who will rise, peace be upon him, the people will be reprimanded for their acts of disobedience by a fire that will appear in the sky and a redness that will cover the sky. It will swallow up Baghdad, and will swallow up Kufa. Their blood will be shed and houses destroyed. Death will occur amid their people and a fear will come over the people of Iraq from which they shall have no rest."
Hazraat Muhammad said:
* A section of my people will not cease fighting for the Truth and will prevail till the Day of Resurrection. He said: Jesus son of Mary would then descend and their (Muslims') commander would invite him to come and lead them in prayer, but he would say: No, some amongst you are commanders over some (amongst you). This is the honour from Allah for this Ummah..
* Jesus Christ will decline the offer and invitation of Imam Mahdi to come and lead the Muslims in prayer, and say his prayer behind Imam Mahdi..
* Jesus (peace be upon him) will come and will perform the obligatory prayers behind the Mahdi and follow him.
* (Jesus) will be following the Mahdi, the master of the time, and that is why he will be offering his prayers behind him
*** Friend discuses according to teaching of Ismailism ***
THANKS.
Concept of Qaim al Qiyamat
These are very interesting and intriguing facts to reflect upon. The first quote clearly alludes to the non occurence of the Qiyama in the absolute sense, i.e., the world will not come to a complete absolution. There will be divine intervention through the mediation/form of Ahl-i-bayt. In other words, creation will continue as it is perpetual as per Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah's statement in his memoir.
Whether this 'relative' Qiyama is imminent, is debatable but events in Baghdad and Kufa seem to bear out the predictions of Imam Jaffer al-Sadiq. Saddam in his final moments of wisdom even alluded to the present condition of Iraq as hell!
If the Qiyama were to happen, then the appearance of the Christ concurrent with that of Mahdi would be the best possible way to bring about the wider recognition of the Mahdi and harmonize the two prevailing notions of eschatology involving Christ of Christianity and Mahdi of Shia Islam.
Looking at the last saying of the Prophet (AS), from an Ismaili traditional point of view, Muhammad, the Pir gave a wider recognition of the Imam the Mazhar of the Godhead to Muslims (regardless of whether that recognition was accepted) at Ghadir. Similarly the appearance of Christ the Pir would give the proper recognition to the Christians of who the Father is.
Whether this 'relative' Qiyama is imminent, is debatable but events in Baghdad and Kufa seem to bear out the predictions of Imam Jaffer al-Sadiq. Saddam in his final moments of wisdom even alluded to the present condition of Iraq as hell!
If the Qiyama were to happen, then the appearance of the Christ concurrent with that of Mahdi would be the best possible way to bring about the wider recognition of the Mahdi and harmonize the two prevailing notions of eschatology involving Christ of Christianity and Mahdi of Shia Islam.
Looking at the last saying of the Prophet (AS), from an Ismaili traditional point of view, Muhammad, the Pir gave a wider recognition of the Imam the Mazhar of the Godhead to Muslims (regardless of whether that recognition was accepted) at Ghadir. Similarly the appearance of Christ the Pir would give the proper recognition to the Christians of who the Father is.
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nowroozalisabiti
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:29 am
- Location: Afghanistan
Qiyamat means arising, resurrection and doomsday. Qayim means he who arises to make firm the Deen. One who reveals the Reality (Haqiqat) of the Deen. He makes clear the concepts of Shari’a for the peoples. Qayim and Imam are the same, the difference is that Qayim is who Imam who brings about changes in conditions of Shari’a. There are six owners of the Shari’s (Adam, Noh, Ibrahim, Musa, Isa and Muhammad). If we look at the Creation, Allah has created the world and universe in 6 days and in the 7th day He has completed it, as the Holy Quran states. As the World of Creation completed in 7th days, so the World of Deen( Relegion) should be completed in 7 owners of Shari’a. And the 7th owner of the Shari’a is the Qayim Qiyamat . So, the period of prophethood has finished on Muhammad(S), and the Period of Imamat began. After the 6 Imam came the 7th Imam,he is Imam as well as Qayim al-Qiayamat. Mawlana Muhammd bin Ismail. The 7th Imam, the 14th, the 21st, the 28th, the 35th and the 42th and 49th are all Qayim al-qiyamat.Thus, Mawlana Shah Karim al-Husaini is the 49th Imam, so, he is the 7th Qayim. If we divide 49 on 7; it is become seven times 7. If we look at the history of Ismailiya, we will find out that in the time of each Qayim there came out many great changes. And the Ismaili community has divided in to groups like Qarmati, Deruz, Mustalawi. Qasim Shahi and …
So, Mawlana Shah Karim al-Husaini is the Qayim of his Time. All the Qayims interpret the Quran according to era in which they live.
Nasir Khusraw has stated in one Qaseedah ( Ginan) and it is in Persian:
Dar sal sheen o Ghain o Fe, dar ghurahi mahi Rajab
Mahdi akhir zaman royi jahan khahad grift
It means that Mahdi of the Resurection Day will reveal in the 1st date of the month of Rajab (Arabic month) in 1380 h.q. Here, if we count the three mentioned letters and count them by Abjad form; Sheen =300, Ghain=1000 and Fe =80 and in total sum of these letters is 1380. We saw that in the mentioned year, the Iamam of the Time had given his first in deedar(vision) in Gilgit. As Nasir al-Deen Nasir Hunzai has chanted a poem in the arrival time of Mawlana Hazar Iamam under the title of “BAB AL-KARIM”. If we count the letters of this world it will be 1380. He has chanted:
Yad tashrif qudoomash bad az “BAB AL-KARIM”
SHAGHF bishmareed ke sal hejrat khair al-wara ast
The mahdi of Akher al-Zaman is our Hazar Imam. Isa never descends from the sky, because the prophet (Isa) was human being and should live keeping with the law of nature. Also the 12th Imam of the twelvers never comes again; because Imam is always among the community of human being to guide them every time. Imam is always present, in the community, not absent. How can an absentee Imam guide the community, especially one who has disappeared 1000 years ago? If the Twelvers wait for his arising more than million years, there absent Imam will never return. So, the English lanauge is a second language for me if there is something wrong in conveying the concept please forgive me and do,t hesitate to ask,
Regars and YAM
Nowrooz Ali Sabiti
So, Mawlana Shah Karim al-Husaini is the Qayim of his Time. All the Qayims interpret the Quran according to era in which they live.
Nasir Khusraw has stated in one Qaseedah ( Ginan) and it is in Persian:
Dar sal sheen o Ghain o Fe, dar ghurahi mahi Rajab
Mahdi akhir zaman royi jahan khahad grift
It means that Mahdi of the Resurection Day will reveal in the 1st date of the month of Rajab (Arabic month) in 1380 h.q. Here, if we count the three mentioned letters and count them by Abjad form; Sheen =300, Ghain=1000 and Fe =80 and in total sum of these letters is 1380. We saw that in the mentioned year, the Iamam of the Time had given his first in deedar(vision) in Gilgit. As Nasir al-Deen Nasir Hunzai has chanted a poem in the arrival time of Mawlana Hazar Iamam under the title of “BAB AL-KARIM”. If we count the letters of this world it will be 1380. He has chanted:
Yad tashrif qudoomash bad az “BAB AL-KARIM”
SHAGHF bishmareed ke sal hejrat khair al-wara ast
The mahdi of Akher al-Zaman is our Hazar Imam. Isa never descends from the sky, because the prophet (Isa) was human being and should live keeping with the law of nature. Also the 12th Imam of the twelvers never comes again; because Imam is always among the community of human being to guide them every time. Imam is always present, in the community, not absent. How can an absentee Imam guide the community, especially one who has disappeared 1000 years ago? If the Twelvers wait for his arising more than million years, there absent Imam will never return. So, the English lanauge is a second language for me if there is something wrong in conveying the concept please forgive me and do,t hesitate to ask,
Regars and YAM
Nowrooz Ali Sabiti
YA ALI MADAD
Wonder ful,
thanks alot 4 sharing
one thing which i think was a Typo Mistake
You wrote "this world it will be 1380. He has chanted: "
i think it should be
"this word*** it will be 1380. He has chanted: "
so, i think it was word, not world!
just for readers correction
please do write more on this topic or others!
regards,
Wonder ful,
thanks alot 4 sharing
one thing which i think was a Typo Mistake
You wrote "this world it will be 1380. He has chanted: "
i think it should be
"this word*** it will be 1380. He has chanted: "
so, i think it was word, not world!
just for readers correction
please do write more on this topic or others!
regards,
In my view the concept of Qaim al Qiyama has very limited significance for Ismaili tariqah. By virtue of accepting Divine guidance manifesting in the living Imam and hence accepting the notion of continuous revelations, we are already in the mode of ongoing resurrection (Qiyama). For Ismailis every moment is a moment of enlightenment (Qiyama) and every Imam is a Qaim. There is no difference between Imams. Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah said “In every time, Imam has something new to reveal”.
Historically during the Fatimid period, this concept may have had its significance by virtue of the fact that we used to follow the Sharia as other Muslims. Today the times have changed and Sharia as practiced by other Muslims has limited relevance for Ismailis who have evolved their own Sharia.
You mentioned that there were major events at the times of 7th, 14th, 21st …Imams. According to my understanding there has been nothing unusual or extra ordinary about them. All Imams have been equal in this respect. The period of our 7th Imam was in fact the commencement of our taqqiyah. So it is difficult to interpret that as a major moment of resurrection.
However Qaim al Qiyama can have relevance if by Qiyama, we understand it in a broader context as the revival/resurrection of the society/humanity at large. In this respect a Mahdi from Ahl-i-Bayt can appear in the sense that the current Imam can assume a broader role in the Muslim Umma temporarily to bring positive changes. He does not have to appear from no where (as per the 12 ver Shia belief) but rather to assume a wider role in the Umma. With the current volatile and intractable situation in the Middle East, it is possible that MHI can assume a greater role being the most credible leader in the Umma and hence become a Qaim, a resurrector of the Umma.
Historically during the Fatimid period, this concept may have had its significance by virtue of the fact that we used to follow the Sharia as other Muslims. Today the times have changed and Sharia as practiced by other Muslims has limited relevance for Ismailis who have evolved their own Sharia.
You mentioned that there were major events at the times of 7th, 14th, 21st …Imams. According to my understanding there has been nothing unusual or extra ordinary about them. All Imams have been equal in this respect. The period of our 7th Imam was in fact the commencement of our taqqiyah. So it is difficult to interpret that as a major moment of resurrection.
However Qaim al Qiyama can have relevance if by Qiyama, we understand it in a broader context as the revival/resurrection of the society/humanity at large. In this respect a Mahdi from Ahl-i-Bayt can appear in the sense that the current Imam can assume a broader role in the Muslim Umma temporarily to bring positive changes. He does not have to appear from no where (as per the 12 ver Shia belief) but rather to assume a wider role in the Umma. With the current volatile and intractable situation in the Middle East, it is possible that MHI can assume a greater role being the most credible leader in the Umma and hence become a Qaim, a resurrector of the Umma.
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nowroozalisabiti
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:29 am
- Location: Afghanistan
Posted: 06 Jan 2007 12:46 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skaswani wrote:
YA ALI MADAD
Wonder ful,
thanks alot 4 sharing
one thing which i think was a Typo Mistake
You wrote "this world it will be 1380. He has chanted: "
i think it should be
"this word*** it will be 1380. He has chanted: "
so, i think it was word, not world!
just for readers correction
please do write more on this topic or others!
regards,
Thanks Skaswani. yes skaswani you are right. I am grateful of you for making correct my mistake. Yes, it is word, not world. Also, I thank kmaherali for the clearance of the concept of Qiyamat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skaswani wrote:
YA ALI MADAD
Wonder ful,
thanks alot 4 sharing
one thing which i think was a Typo Mistake
You wrote "this world it will be 1380. He has chanted: "
i think it should be
"this word*** it will be 1380. He has chanted: "
so, i think it was word, not world!
just for readers correction
please do write more on this topic or others!
regards,
Thanks Skaswani. yes skaswani you are right. I am grateful of you for making correct my mistake. Yes, it is word, not world. Also, I thank kmaherali for the clearance of the concept of Qiyamat.
The 6th Imam, Jafar al-Sadiq, is reported to have said:
*Before the appearance of the one who will rise, peace be upon him, the people will be reprimanded for their acts of disobedience by a fire that will appear in the sky and a redness that will cover the sky. It will swallow up Baghdad, and will swallow up Kufa. Their blood will be shed and houses destroyed. Death will occur amid their people and a fear will come over the people of Iraq from which they shall have no rest."
where can i find the reference to this quote?
which book where can i find the book
please help
ya ali madad
*Before the appearance of the one who will rise, peace be upon him, the people will be reprimanded for their acts of disobedience by a fire that will appear in the sky and a redness that will cover the sky. It will swallow up Baghdad, and will swallow up Kufa. Their blood will be shed and houses destroyed. Death will occur amid their people and a fear will come over the people of Iraq from which they shall have no rest."
where can i find the reference to this quote?
which book where can i find the book
please help
ya ali madad
dchandani wrote:The 6th Imam, Jafar al-Sadiq, is reported to have said:
*Before the appearance of the one who will rise, peace be upon him, the people will be reprimanded for their acts of disobedience by a fire that will appear in the sky and a redness that will cover the sky. It will swallow up Baghdad, and will swallow up Kufa. Their blood will be shed and houses destroyed. Death will occur amid their people and a fear will come over the people of Iraq from which they shall have no rest."
where can i find the reference to this quote?
which book where can i find the book
please help
ya ali madad
Very interesting quote here - Can the redness be meant to imply the Republican Party of the US (i.e. Bush and his cronies)?.
Look at what is happening in Iraq - the war came from the air - More Iraqis have died than Americans almost a 10 fold difference in numbers.
Shams
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RahmatHajikuttch
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This hadiths is from ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi ).
Complete:
"" Signs indicating the emergence of the Mahdi ""
Shi'a sources :
according to Shia sources no one can detemine the time of Imam Mahdi's emergence and whoever determines any specific time is a liar (Kamal ul-din, p 484, Hadith #4). Nevertheless, there are some signs for his emergence, most of which are not necessary conditions for his reappearance.
The 6th Shi'a Imam, Jafar al-Sadiq, is reported to have said:
"Before the appearance of the one who will rise, peace be upon him, the people will be reprimanded for their acts of disobedience by a fire that will appear in the sky and a redness that will cover the sky. It will swallow up Baghdad, and will swallow up Kufa. Their blood will be shed and houses destroyed. Death will occur amid their people and a fear will come over the people of Iraq from which they shall have no rest."
There will be an insurgence by the Sufyani, a descendant of Abu Sufyan. Abu Sufyan is considered by Shias to have been one of Muhammad's worst enemies, along with his son, Muawiya I and Muawiya's son, Yazid. According to Shia narrations, the Sufyani's revolution will start from Palestine/Jordan, and his reign of tyranny will span the Middle East from Iraq to Egypt.
A loud call from the sky signals the Mahdi's appearance.
Complete:
"" Signs indicating the emergence of the Mahdi ""
Shi'a sources :
according to Shia sources no one can detemine the time of Imam Mahdi's emergence and whoever determines any specific time is a liar (Kamal ul-din, p 484, Hadith #4). Nevertheless, there are some signs for his emergence, most of which are not necessary conditions for his reappearance.
The 6th Shi'a Imam, Jafar al-Sadiq, is reported to have said:
"Before the appearance of the one who will rise, peace be upon him, the people will be reprimanded for their acts of disobedience by a fire that will appear in the sky and a redness that will cover the sky. It will swallow up Baghdad, and will swallow up Kufa. Their blood will be shed and houses destroyed. Death will occur amid their people and a fear will come over the people of Iraq from which they shall have no rest."
There will be an insurgence by the Sufyani, a descendant of Abu Sufyan. Abu Sufyan is considered by Shias to have been one of Muhammad's worst enemies, along with his son, Muawiya I and Muawiya's son, Yazid. According to Shia narrations, the Sufyani's revolution will start from Palestine/Jordan, and his reign of tyranny will span the Middle East from Iraq to Egypt.
A loud call from the sky signals the Mahdi's appearance.
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pakifellah
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YA ALI MADAD: Reading this statement about the SHARIA you wrote:<BR><BR>Historically during the Fatimid period, this concept may have had its significance by virtue of the fact that we used to follow the Sharia as other Muslims. Today the times have changed and Sharia as practiced by other Muslims has limited relevance for Ismailis who have evolved their own Sharia. <BR><BR><BR>Please explain further what is that you mean by ISMAILIS WHO HAVE EVOLVED THEIR OWN SHARIA.<BR> <BR>Is it different from the Islamic sharia? <BR>Is this Ismaili sharia documented way of life?<BR><BR>please throw some light may be a lot of light o­n this subject, this is something new and very interesting to learn at my age.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
This issue has been discussed in this forum under:pakifellah wrote:YA ALI MADAD: Reading this statement about the SHARIA you wrote:<BR><BR>Historically during the Fatimid period, this concept may have had its significance by virtue of the fact that we used to follow the Sharia as other Muslims. Today the times have changed and Sharia as practiced by other Muslims has limited relevance for Ismailis who have evolved their own Sharia. <BR><BR><BR>Please explain further what is that you mean by ISMAILIS WHO HAVE EVOLVED THEIR OWN SHARIA.<BR> <BR>Is it different from the Islamic sharia? <BR>Is this Ismaili sharia documented way of life?<BR><BR>please throw some light may be a lot of light o­n this subject, this is something new and very interesting to learn at my age.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
Customs and Traditions --> Praying 3X a oppposed to 5X
You may want to go there.
The Qā’im and Qiyāma Doctrines in the Thought of Fāṭimid and Alamūt Ismāʿīlism, the Evolution of a Doctrine
https://www.academia.edu/3985091/The_Q& ... a_Doctrine
https://www.academia.edu/3985091/The_Q& ... a_Doctrine
The Qaim and Qiyama Doctrines in the Thought of Fatimid and Alamut Ismailism, the Evolution of a Doctrinekmaherali wrote:The Qā’im and Qiyāma Doctrines in the Thought of Fāṭimid and Alamūt Ismāʿīlism, the Evolution of a Doctrine
https://www.academia.edu/3985091/The_Q& ... a_Doctrine
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junglikhan4
- Posts: 208
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kmaherali wrote:The Qaim and Qiyama Doctrines in the Thought of Fatimid and Alamut Ismailism, the Evolution of a Doctrinekmaherali wrote:The Qā’im and Qiyāma Doctrines in the Thought of Fāṭimid and Alamūt Ismāʿīlism, the Evolution of a Doctrine
https://www.academia.edu/3985091/The_Q& ... a_Doctrine
Reply,
The theory or doctrine of Qaim and Qiyamah was not present at time of Imam Ja'far Sadiq. Al Qaim first appeared for Imam Muhammad bin Ismail. So far there are three theories about Al Qaim. The doctrine at time of Fatmid is different than the doctrine of Almout. I believe that Imam Hasan Alla Zikrihisallam never abrogated the Shariyat. There was a religious gathering,
Imam gave didar to followers and gave a sermon on spiritual aspects of religion.That sermon was given in Arabic before audience of Persian speaking people. The opponents of Ismailis used that occasion as propaganda tool to degrade and defame Ismailis and they were successful. Mostly sunni authors used this event against Ismailis because Ismaili da'wa was getting momentum. The situation got worst and Imam Hasan was assassinated by his brother in law named Hasan Naamwar.
The Syrian delegation present to the Declaration was told to share it with the Syrian Jamat. Up to today they understood the Farman as meaning that the Imam relieved us from the burden of Shariah. That was again confirmed by Rashidudin Sinan in a letter to Nooreddin Zenki. The fact that we stop the 5 namaz immediately after the Declaration and this also for 8 Centuries is proof enough. Obviously you have no access to Farmans in Shariat and Haqiqat....
The Arab delegation at the Declaration of the Qyamah did not need the translation, they heard the Farman in their own language as according to you the Imam made the Declaration in Arabic right?
Or was the Imam thinking in French and speaking in Arabic and therefore needed your corrections?
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The Arab delegation at the Declaration of the Qyamah did not need the translation, they heard the Farman in their own language as according to you the Imam made the Declaration in Arabic right?
Or was the Imam thinking in French and speaking in Arabic and therefore needed your corrections?
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junglikhan4
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Admin wrote:The Syrian delegation present to the Declaration was told to share it with the Syrian Jamat. Up to today they understood the Farman as meaning that the Imam relieved us from the burden of Shariah. That was again confirmed by Rashidudin Sinan in a letter to Nooreddin Zenki. The fact that we stop the 5 namaz immediately after the Declaration and this also for 8 Centuries is proof enough. Obviously you have no access to Farmans in Shariat and Haqiqat....
The Arab delegation at the Declaration of the Qyamah did not need the translation, they heard the Farman in their own language as according to you the Imam made the Declaration in Arabic right?
Or was the Imam thinking in French and speaking in Arabic and therefore needed your corrections?
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Reply,
I checked 3 history books none shed light that any delegation from Syria was ever present at the time of declaration. Farhad Daftary in his book "The Ismailis " on page 387 wrote," In Syria, too, the qiyama was announced, evidently a while later". Further on page 400, he wrote," When Hasan 2nd announced the doctrine of the qiyama in 1164 in Alamut and there upon sent messengers carrying the tidings to the Nizars of other territories, it fell upon Sinan to inaugurate the new dispensation in Syria. Sinan did proclaim the Resurrection in Syria, and the doctrine of the qiyama was introduced there, but the doctrine seems to have had a very limited impact on the Syrian Nizari community." On page 396, he wrote,"The doctrine of the qiyama now effectively replaced the doctrine of Ta'lim as central in Nizari thought."
Shariyat was not abrogated by Imam, the proof is after delivering khutba, Imam stepped down from the mimber and said two raq'at of namaz facing Ka'batullah and when he delivered khutba he faced towards ka'ba.
It depends upon Imam to think in French and speak in English. One point should be noted, why Imam Hasan spoke in Arabic when audience was Persian.
Imam speaks the language that He choose to speak.
One can only speculate. There was the Arab delegation (one of the 4 delegation) and Imam spoke Arabic.
The delegation stood separately according to the place they were coming from. The Arabic speaking were all together, Syrian included, There are several article on this in French by Corbin and even his student Jean Claude Frere, just google it.
The Imam conducted the last Namaz recited by Ismailis and then abrogated the Shariah showing the people that He now changed the Time and even ordered a big Jamanr, feast on that afternoon middle of the month of Ramadan and he ate with the delegation, the same way our present Imam called all Europe delegation at Aiglemont in Ramadan afternoon and ate with them and his children and wife and sister and brother in 1983.
.
One can only speculate. There was the Arab delegation (one of the 4 delegation) and Imam spoke Arabic.
The delegation stood separately according to the place they were coming from. The Arabic speaking were all together, Syrian included, There are several article on this in French by Corbin and even his student Jean Claude Frere, just google it.
The Imam conducted the last Namaz recited by Ismailis and then abrogated the Shariah showing the people that He now changed the Time and even ordered a big Jamanr, feast on that afternoon middle of the month of Ramadan and he ate with the delegation, the same way our present Imam called all Europe delegation at Aiglemont in Ramadan afternoon and ate with them and his children and wife and sister and brother in 1983.
.
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junglikhan4
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Reply,Admin wrote:Imam speaks the language that He choose to speak.
One can only speculate. There was the Arab delegation (one of the 4 delegation) and Imam spoke Arabic.
The delegation stood separately according to the place they were coming from. The Arabic speaking were all together, Syrian included, There are several article on this in French by Corbin and even his student Jean Claude Frere, just google it.
The Imam conducted the last Namaz recited by Ismailis and then abrogated the Shariah showing the people that He now changed the Time and even ordered a big Jamanr, feast on that afternoon middle of the month of Ramadan and he ate with the delegation, the same way our present Imam called all Europe delegation at Aiglemont in Ramadan afternoon and ate with them and his children and wife and sister and brother in 1983.
.
I gave you name of book, author's name and page#, but you mentioned the names of Corbin and Jean Claude and asked me to google it. Please mention the name of books and page #s. Fahad Daftary has quoted Corbin many times, how come he did not mentioned what you are claiming.
SUPPOSE, suppose if Imam Ala zikrihissalam abrogated shariat in his time, but later on Imam Jalaluddin Hasan reinstated the shariat. DAFTARY wrote,
" Our Persian historians relate that upon his accession, Hasan publicly repudiated the doctrine of Qiyamah and proclaimed his adherence to Sunni Islam, ordering his followers to observe the sharia in its sunni form" page # 405.
He is mistaken. and rightly because he can not understand the Farmans from an Ismaili point of view nor has access to the number of Farmans of several Imams that we have (actually, that I have, I am not sure about you)
We have the Farman of imam Alazikrihis Salaam. There is no Farman of any subsequent "repudiation".
In fact there are even confirmation of Imam Alazikrihis Salaam Farman by other subsequent Imams. You have read them on THIS forum and you have not been satisfied. Lets agree to disagree on this topic. You have taken all of us many time round and round on the same topic so you can go back to the discussions and read all the answers you have been given already umpteen times on your allegations.
I am confirming to you that I have no objection with those who think otherwise,
Lakum Dinakum Wali Dini [Rawalpindi 23 March 1983)
We have the Farman of imam Alazikrihis Salaam. There is no Farman of any subsequent "repudiation".
In fact there are even confirmation of Imam Alazikrihis Salaam Farman by other subsequent Imams. You have read them on THIS forum and you have not been satisfied. Lets agree to disagree on this topic. You have taken all of us many time round and round on the same topic so you can go back to the discussions and read all the answers you have been given already umpteen times on your allegations.
I am confirming to you that I have no objection with those who think otherwise,
Lakum Dinakum Wali Dini [Rawalpindi 23 March 1983)
I think regardless of the vagaries of history, we will always have aspects of Sharia in our Tariqah to contend with, as per the Farman:
"Throughout the Jamat's history, including during the Fatimid times, a consistent feature of the Ismaili Tariqah has been the complementarity between practices that are specific to our Tariqah, and those that are part of the Sharia, common to all Muslims, albeit with denominational specificities. Examples of this are the historic co-existence between Namaz and Du'a, and the concept of private prayer and personal search, which has an important place in Islam, since it concerns the relationship of faith with life." (Dec 13, 2008)
In view of the globalization of the Jamat, there will be the need for some Jamats to observe the Sharia practices in addition to the Tariqah practices. Otherwise MHI would not mention the complimentarity aspect in this important Farman. Hence we will have the Ismaili Namaz when it available for those who may need it. The Sharia has not been completely obliterated. Some parts of it may be necessary according to the needs of the context.
"Throughout the Jamat's history, including during the Fatimid times, a consistent feature of the Ismaili Tariqah has been the complementarity between practices that are specific to our Tariqah, and those that are part of the Sharia, common to all Muslims, albeit with denominational specificities. Examples of this are the historic co-existence between Namaz and Du'a, and the concept of private prayer and personal search, which has an important place in Islam, since it concerns the relationship of faith with life." (Dec 13, 2008)
In view of the globalization of the Jamat, there will be the need for some Jamats to observe the Sharia practices in addition to the Tariqah practices. Otherwise MHI would not mention the complimentarity aspect in this important Farman. Hence we will have the Ismaili Namaz when it available for those who may need it. The Sharia has not been completely obliterated. Some parts of it may be necessary according to the needs of the context.
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junglikhan4
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Admin wrote:He is mistaken. and rightly because he can not understand the Farmans from an Ismaili point of view nor has access to the number of Farmans of several Imams that we have (actually, that I have, I am not sure about you)
We have the Farman of imam Alazikrihis Salaam. There is no Farman of any subsequent "repudiation".
In fact there are even confirmation of Imam Alazikrihis Salaam Farman by other subsequent Imams. You have read them on THIS forum and you have not been satisfied. Lets agree to disagree on this topic. You have taken all of us many time round and round on the same topic so you can go back to the discussions and read all the answers you have been given already umpteen times on your allegations.
I am confirming to you that I have no objection with those who think otherwise,
Lakum Dinakum Wali Dini [Rawalpindi 23 March 1983)
Reply,
I am giving the account of what histories say on this subject. You know Daftary is a well known scholar affiliated with IIS, and his history is taught in our institutions. I believe he has excess to all kind of literary material at IIS. My assertion is that sunni writers took advantage of qiyamah situation and started defaming and degrading Ismailis. Let me give another example.
Almost same account is given in history book named ' TAARIKH A'AMAI ISMA'ILIA' part 3 published by Ismailia association Pakistan in 1980. Also there is an account of Imam Jalaluddin Hasan's mother's Hajj to Mecca. Daftary's book was published in 1990.
I am not a reformer but giviing you the correct information. MSMS allowed Ismailis of sub continent to practice Sunni Hanafi Tariqa. There fore Ismailis at that time were saying eid namaz, juma namaz, janaza namaz, ziarat on Sunni Tariqa. In proof I have books printed by associations at that time.
Thesis
The Qā’im and Qiyāma Doctrines in the
Thought of Fāṭimid and Alamūt Ismāʿīlism:
The Evolution of a Doctrine
By Nadim Pabani
The entire thesis can be accessed at:
https://www.academia.edu/3985091/The_Q% ... card=title
The Qā’im and Qiyāma Doctrines in the
Thought of Fāṭimid and Alamūt Ismāʿīlism:
The Evolution of a Doctrine
By Nadim Pabani
The entire thesis can be accessed at:
https://www.academia.edu/3985091/The_Q% ... card=title