SOUL OR SPIRIT?

tret · Post by **tret** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:35 am

ismailignosis wrote:An Examination of the terms "Soul" (nafs) and "Spirit" (ruh) in the Qur'an

thank you.

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:05 pm

tret wrote:
ismailignosis wrote:An Examination of the terms "Soul" (nafs) and "Spirit" (ruh) in the Qur'an
thank you.

to: ismailignosis

I join Tret to thank you for sharing what you know.

God bless you and peace be with you.

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:59 pm

Quran says," Wa yasalunak 'anir Ruh. Qulir Ruhu min amri Rabbi. Wa ma utitum minal Ilm illa Qallia." 17/85
Translation:They are asking you (Prophet) concerning the Ruh (spirit). Say (tell them) that the Ruh is Amr (command) of my Rabb. And you people are granted very little of Ilm (knowledge, wisdom).
There are three important words used in this ayat.Ar Ruh(the spirit), Amr (command), and Ilm (spiritual knowledge and wisdom). In Quran the word Ruh is used in singular form. Many Islamic scholars have interpreted Ar Ruh as Holy Spirit, Gibrael Amin, Al Insanul Kamil or mazhar of Allah. In ginanic literature there is a very sensitive and deep meaning couplet:
EJI RUH PURUSH TO AMAR CHHEY
ANEY KAYA TE MARI MARI JAYEY
According to my understanding the words RUH, PURUSH, AMR are very important and they are according to Quranic ayat. Now who is this Purush. Here Purush is ar Ruh, he is amr of Rabb, he is al Insanul Kamil and he is Imam e zaman. All souls are connected to this Purush, which is ar RUH, whom we call supreme soul or universal soul. Mowla Murtaza Ali said," ANNA AMRULLAH WA RUHULLAH ". In human body the center of ar Ruh is forehead (jabeen, peshani). The spiritual journey starts through this center of jabeen, which is bhamar gufa, or ghar e hira, or spiritual cave. That's why pir said:
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
Andar baith means in this ghare hira, bhamar gufa, I concentrate on ar Ruh who is my final destination.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:18 am

mazharshah wrote:Quran says," Wa yasalunak 'anir Ruh. Qulir Ruhu min amri Rabbi. Wa ma utitum minal Ilm illa Qallia." 17/85
Translation:They are asking you (Prophet) concerning the Ruh (spirit). Say (tell them) that the Ruh is Amr (command) of my Rabb. And you people are granted very little of Ilm (knowledge, wisdom).
There are three important words used in this ayat.Ar Ruh(the spirit), Amr (command), and Ilm (spiritual knowledge and wisdom). In Quran the word Ruh is used in singular form. Many Islamic scholars have interpreted Ar Ruh as Holy Spirit, Gibrael Amin, Al Insanul Kamil or mazhar of Allah. In ginanic literature there is a very sensitive and deep meaning couplet:
EJI RUH PURUSH TO AMAR CHHEY
ANEY KAYA TE MARI MARI JAYEY
According to my understanding the words RUH, PURUSH, AMR are very important and they are according to Quranic ayat. Now who is this Purush. Here Purush is ar Ruh, he is amr of Rabb, he is al Insanul Kamil and he is Imam e zaman. All souls are connected to this Purush, which is ar RUH, whom we call supreme soul or universal soul. Mowla Murtaza Ali said," ANNA AMRULLAH WA RUHULLAH ". In human body the center of ar Ruh is forehead (jabeen, peshani). The spiritual journey starts through this center of jabeen, which is bhamar gufa, or ghar e hira, or spiritual cave. That's why pir said:
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
Andar baith means in this ghare hira, bhamar gufa, I concentrate on ar Ruh who is my final destination.

Little correction..

The verse of Ginan is like.

" PRAAN PURUSH TO AMAR CHE" its not Ruh purush.

Praan purush means RUH...

Praan means life and purush means male or you can say head of the family.

Praan purush means Ruh controls our life.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:35 am

ismaili103 wrote:Little correction..

The verse of Ginan is like.

" PRAAN PURUSH TO AMAR CHE" its not Ruh purush.

Praan purush means RUH...

Praan means life and purush means male or you can say head of the family.

Praan purush means Ruh controls our life.

Which Ginan is this from?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:41 am

mazharshah wrote:The spiritual journey starts through this center of jabeen, which is bhamar gufa, or ghar e hira, or spiritual cave. That's why pir said:
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
Andar baith means in this ghare hira, bhamar gufa, I concentrate on ar Ruh who is my final destination.

I don't think ANDAR refers to bhamar Gufa. Consider the verse before this one.

ejee man meraa musallah allah meraa kaajee
kaayaa hameree maseetaa......................ebhee allah.....6

The mind(heart) is my prayer mat, the Lord is my judge (He is both the witness
and the judge of my supplications and prayers to Him), and my body is the mosque
(a sanctuary, a Jammat Khaanaa from where I offer my
prayers to Him)..............He is indeed the Lord

ejee a(n)dar baytth me namaaz gujaaru(n),
murakh kiyaa jaane taa-et hamaaree...........ebhee allah.....7

I sit within my inner sanctuary and offer my prayers. How would fools know
(the nature of) my worship?....He is indeed the Lord

So ANDAR refers to the kaaya which is the body and is called the masita - mosque.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:15 pm

kmaherali wrote:
ismaili103 wrote:Little correction..

The verse of Ginan is like.

" PRAAN PURUSH TO AMAR CHE" its not Ruh purush.

Praan purush means RUH...

Praan means life and purush means male or you can say head of the family.

Praan purush means Ruh controls our life.
Which Ginan is this from?

I heard it in the one waez of late Abu Ali, i request others to give us name of this Ginan.

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:42 pm

ismaili103 wrote:
mazharshah wrote:Quran says," Wa yasalunak 'anir Ruh. Qulir Ruhu min amri Rabbi. Wa ma utitum minal Ilm illa Qallia." 17/85
Translation:They are asking you (Prophet) concerning the Ruh (spirit). Say (tell them) that the Ruh is Amr (command) of my Rabb. And you people are granted very little of Ilm (knowledge, wisdom).
There are three important words used in this ayat.Ar Ruh(the spirit), Amr (command), and Ilm (spiritual knowledge and wisdom). In Quran the word Ruh is used in singular form. Many Islamic scholars have interpreted Ar Ruh as Holy Spirit, Gibrael Amin, Al Insanul Kamil or mazhar of Allah. In ginanic literature there is a very sensitive and deep meaning couplet:
EJI RUH PURUSH TO AMAR CHHEY
ANEY KAYA TE MARI MARI JAYEY
According to my understanding the words RUH, PURUSH, AMR are very important and they are according to Quranic ayat. Now who is this Purush. Here Purush is ar Ruh, he is amr of Rabb, he is al Insanul Kamil and he is Imam e zaman. All souls are connected to this Purush, which is ar RUH, whom we call supreme soul or universal soul. Mowla Murtaza Ali said," ANNA AMRULLAH WA RUHULLAH ". In human body the center of ar Ruh is forehead (jabeen, peshani). The spiritual journey starts through this center of jabeen, which is bhamar gufa, or ghar e hira, or spiritual cave. That's why pir said:
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
Andar baith means in this ghare hira, bhamar gufa, I concentrate on ar Ruh who is my final destination.
Little correction..

The verse of Ginan is like.

" PRAAN PURUSH TO AMAR CHE" its not Ruh purush.

Praan purush means RUH...

Praan means life and purush means male or you can say head of the family.

Praan purush means Ruh controls our life.[/quote

Thanks for correction.

Post by **Admin** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:46 pm

Purush also means God.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:03 pm

Be honest, In above ginanic verses pir has used the word 'PRAN PURUSH" for the "soul" of human being but there are many other meanings of word 'PURUSH" let me put it 10 out of 43 different meanings for interesting readers

1, Pupil of the eye
2, God
3, Human being
4, Dhani (Husband)
5, Paro (Mercury)
6, Ancestor
7, Human measurment
8, Freind
9, Servant
10, Daint (devil )
By the way there are 43 different meanings of a single word 'PURUSH"!!!

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:09 pm

Admin wrote:Purush also means God.

To Admin.

This is your assertion that Purush means God, where as Mr. AK has given 10 meanings out of which 2 are God and devil. How come God becomes devil as devil is creation of God. Quran says," AR RUHU MIN AMR I RABB" AND GINAN SAYS," PRAN PURUSH AMR CHHEY". Amr i Rabbi can not be Rabb because Amr is the command from Rabb and this same meaning applies to ginan. I therefore explained, ' AR RUH AS UNIVERSAL SOUL'.

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:48 pm

kmaherali wrote:
mazharshah wrote:The spiritual journey starts through this center of jabeen, which is bhamar gufa, or ghar e hira, or spiritual cave. That's why pir said:
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU
MURAKH KIA JANEY TA'AT HAMARI
Andar baith means in this ghare hira, bhamar gufa, I concentrate on ar Ruh who is my final destination.
I don't think ANDAR refers to bhamar Gufa. Consider the verse before this one.

ejee man meraa musallah allah meraa kaajee
kaayaa hameree maseetaa......................ebhee allah.....6

The mind(heart) is my prayer mat, the Lord is my judge (He is both the witness
and the judge of my supplications and prayers to Him), and my body is the mosque
(a sanctuary, a Jammat Khaanaa from where I offer my
prayers to Him)..............He is indeed the Lord

ejee a(n)dar baytth me namaaz gujaaru(n),
murakh kiyaa jaane taa-et hamaaree...........ebhee allah.....7

I sit within my inner sanctuary and offer my prayers. How would fools know
(the nature of) my worship?....He is indeed the Lord

So ANDAR refers to the kaaya which is the body and is called the masita - mosque.

To KM,

You have right to explain ginan as you like and I do in my way as I understood. Poetry is a vast field and any one can explain according to his/her experiences and relgious or social envirnment.
While saying Du'a, Namaz,or sitting in bandagi we concentrate. The point of concentration is in forehead (jabeen) which I called Bhamar ghufa or Ghar e Hira,or spiritual cave. The Ghar e Hira example I related to Prophet Muhammad, because for years he did bandagi in Ghar e Hira and got first revelation through Jibrael.

Regarding 'kaya meri maseeta', many sufis have explained kaya as grave, mundir, masjid, tomb etc. Regarding this 'kaya meri maseeta', if my body is masjid I am concentrating on namaz, then there should be ( pesh ) Imam.
That Imam we can find and concentrate in Bhamar Ghufa.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:31 am

mazharshah wrote:To KM,

You have right to explain ginan as you like and I do in my way as I understood. Poetry is a vast field and any one can explain according to his/her experiences and relgious or social envirnment.

That is true, nevertheless it helps to consider the whole Ginan instead of taking verses in isolation. Some verses are interrelated.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:06 am

How come God becomes devil as devil is creation of God. Quran says," AR RUHU MIN AMR I RABB"

The same way when Allah can become AL-KAHHAR, AL-GAFETH, AL-DARR. AL-MUJJIL AL- JABBAR then why not he can not be devil!!? use your common scenes the meaning of the Purush has taken as "devil " as a destroyer. and if you wants to know it as per quranic word then "AL-MUMIT"

'kaya meri maseeta',

As long as the whole ginan's meanings are concern! then Pir has taken the meaning of 'KAYA' as a human body, it is that simple.

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:55 am

kmaherali wrote:
ismaili103 wrote:Little correction..

The verse of Ginan is like.

" PRAAN PURUSH TO AMAR CHE" its not Ruh purush.

Praan purush means RUH...

Praan means life and purush means male or you can say head of the family.

Praan purush means Ruh controls our life.
Which Ginan is this from?

To Km,

The couplet is from, " momin chit varni " said by syed Imam Shah.

mazharshah · Post by **mazharshah** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:15 am

agakhani wrote:
How come God becomes devil as devil is creation of God. Quran says," AR RUHU MIN AMR I RABB"
The same way when Allah can become AL-KAHHAR, AL-GAFETH, AL-DARR. AL-MUJJIL AL- JABBAR then why not he can not be devil!!? use your common scenes the meaning of the Purush has taken as "devil " as a destroyer. and if you wants to know it as per quranic word then "AL-MUMIT"

'kaya meri maseeta',
As long as the whole ginan's meanings are concern! then Pir has taken the meaning of 'KAYA' as a human body, it is that simple.

To AK,

You are equating Allah with Iblees, Satan, and Devil!!
So according to you God being Devil is forcing humans to steal, kill, rape, cheat, act unethically, punj bhu, and so on. Al Jabbar, Al Qahar, Al Darr are God's attributal names. Iblees/Satan is creation of God and not God himself.
I have already explained about KAYA in my post above and that is simple.
If you don't understand it is not my fault.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:48 am

You are equating Allah with Iblees, Satan, and Devil!!

If you think that way then that is not my fault either! but I explained you earlier that Allah is also 'AL-MUMIT" I am not saying this but Quran says this you can find the word AL-MUMIT in Quran many times! , Oh I forget : taking wrong meaning and take wrong interpretation on every thing is your old hobby!!! doesn't it

erumsuleman · Post by **erumsuleman** » Mon May 16, 2016 1:45 am

here is an article on the differences between soul and spirit

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxo4uN ... sp=sharing