Humanity better off without religions.

[kmaherali]

..,.you will realize that ham means I. For example:
Eji Man meraa musallah Alaah meraa kaaji
kaayaa hameri masitaa e-bhi alaah 6

Sorry ham means 'my'. Also note that it is not khalik but khalak and the meaning of the verse that I quoted above is:

The mind(heart) is my prayer mat, the Lord is my judge (He is both the witness
and the judge of my supplications and prayers to Him), and my body is the mosque
(a sanctuary, a Jammat Khaanaa from where I offer my
prayers to Him)..............He is indeed the Lord

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad:
My personal thinking.
what is the point of an act where 50% of muslims (women cannot join in or pray that day.
I feel in a western country if time taken to perform iwth othere two eid namaaz with commuting travel could be 2 hours.
if a person Just pray a short prayer for 3.5 minute each on those two days there is savings of over 1.5 hour to work on those very ideals meant for those days. A person can minmium $8 - 30, depending upon job n country in those 90 minutes.
there is beautiful programe in India ,acclaimed internationally which feeds mid day meal in school. for just rs 750 of US$ 12 ( google it). They feed the child for
ONE YEAR.
one is an act of prayer with moving of body,bending etc all sides.
One is the spirit of faith inspired by religion to give charity.

UPARWALA HILNA HILANA NAHI DEKTHA,WOH TO NIYAT DEKH THAA HAI.

at low level we see obligation of body to God and at higher level
we see obligation n duty of mind, body and money for the cause of GOD.
Ignorant will see this as sin as reducing prayer time .
Wise one will see the intent in lesser prayer time n balance time used to feed a poor child midday meal for one year.

I WOULD SAY A MORAL N CIVILIZED HUMANITY WITH VALUES IS 100 TIME BETTER THAN SYMBOL,RITUAL N ANTIQS OF ALL RELIGION.

DADI,TOPI AUR NAUTANKI DUNIYA KO BARBAD KARNE CHALE HAI.

[kmaherali]

Ya Ali madad:
one is an act of prayer with moving of body,bending etc all sides.
One is the spirit of faith inspired by religion to give charity.


I WOULD SAY A MORAL N CIVILIZED HUMANITY WITH VALUES IS 100 TIME BETTER THAN SYMBOL,RITUAL N ANTIQS OF ALL RELIGION.

DADI,TOPI AUR NAUTANKI DUNIYA KO BARBAD KARNE CHALE HAI.

You do not need to commute daily for 2 hours to pray. You can say your prayers wherever you are. According to MSMS in his Memoirs, Prayer is a daily necessity, a direct communication of the spark with the Universal flame.

The rites and cermonies according to the Farman are the back-bone of our faith, so it is important to attend JK whenever possible. Without our traditions we would not be a Jamat.

So charitable acts are important but to practice your faith and traditions is also important. The rituals provide timeless meaning and purpose in life in the midst of rapid change.

[zznoor]

Ya Ali madad:
My personal thinking.
what is the point of an act where 50% of muslims (women cannot join in or pray that day.
I feel in a western country if time taken to perform iwth othere two eid namaaz with commuting travel could be 2 hours.
if a person Just pray a short prayer for 3.5 minute each on those two days there is savings of over 1.5 hour to work on those very ideals meant for those days. A person can minmium $8 - 30, depending upon job n country in those 90 minutes.
there is beautiful programe in India ,acclaimed internationally which feeds mid day meal in school. for just rs 750 of US$ 12 ( google it). They feed the child for
ONE YEAR.
one is an act of prayer with moving of body,bending etc all sides.
One is the spirit of faith inspired by religion to give charity.

UPARWALA HILNA HILANA NAHI DEKTHA,WOH TO NIYAT DEKH THAA HAI.

at low level we see obligation of body to God and at higher level
we see obligation n duty of mind, body and money for the cause of GOD.
Ignorant will see this as sin as reducing prayer time .
Wise one will see the intent in lesser prayer time n balance time used to feed a poor child midday meal for one year.

I WOULD SAY A MORAL N CIVILIZED HUMANITY WITH VALUES IS 100 TIME BETTER THAN SYMBOL,RITUAL N ANTIQS OF ALL RELIGION

DADI,TOPI AUR NAUTANKI DUNIYA KO BARBAD KARNE CHALE HAI.

Christians go to church on Sunday , are they westing time?
Hindus go to mandir, are they westing time?
Ismailis go to JK, 3 time a day, are they westing time?

Why are you so bent on harping on rituals established by Quran/Prophet and interpreted by respective Imams for mainstream Shia and Sunni brothers?
What makes you believe that Muslim Umma neglect charity?
Where does Eidhi Foundation get money for their charitable work,
for example?

Doesn't one Ismaili Noorani prince sport DADI?
Doesn't Imam Karim Shah wear TOPI in Darbar and Didars?
Is Salat ritual a Natak?

[Admin]

God accept the intentions of all, even of those idol-worshipers who are lost, God judgement is not on action but on intention.

The only think is that you can pedal as much as you have strength and you can go very fast and very far but unless you have the Imam to show the true direction, you will not reach necessarily where you want to reach.

This said, Allah is Merciful and Generous. trust will be rewarded at some point. I am always sad to see empty churches, mandir, masjid, jk, synagogue etc.. Very sad to see not many trust God.

[mazharshah]

GAR CHE QURAN AZ LAB E PAIGAMBER AST
HAR KE GUYAD HAQQ NA GUFT UU KAFIR AST (RUMI)

You wrote ' momin dil Quran' meaning a momin's heart is the Quran. Let me quote here Allamah Iqbal,

HAR LAHZA HAI MOMIN KI NAI AAN NAI SHAN
GIFTAAR ME KIRDAAR ME ALLAH KA QURAN.

Meanings please!



Reply,

GAR CHE QURAN AZ LAB E PAIGAMBER AST
HAR KE GUYAD HAQQ NA GUFT UU KAFIR AST

Meaning: Though Quran is (narrated) from the lips (mouth) of Prophet Muhammad, if any one says (denies) it is nor kalam e haqq (saying or conversation of God) is considered Kafir. ( speech of Allah through mouth of Prophet).

HAR LAHZA HAI MOMIN KI NAI AAN NAI SHAN
GIFTAAR ME KIRDAAR ME ALLAH KA QURAN

Meaning: Every moment of a momin is graceful and dignified. His speech and character is completely according to Quran.

[junglikhan4]

Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 10731

PostPosted: 19 Jul 2015 06:52 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
kmaherali wrote:
..,.you will realize that ham means I. For example:
Eji Man meraa musallah Alaah meraa kaaji
kaayaa hameri masitaa e-bhi alaah 6

Sorry ham means 'my'. Also note that it is not khalik but khalak and the meaning of the verse that I quoted above is:

The mind(heart) is my prayer mat, the Lord is my judge (He is both the witness
and the judge of my supplications and prayers to Him), and my body is the mosque
(a sanctuary, a Jammat Khaanaa from where I offer my
prayers to Him)..............He is indeed the Lord


Reply,

In Persian/Urdu/Hindi literature there is a term used, known as " REKHTA". Means mixing up of words of different languages in poetry or songs. In sub continent it was started by Famous Pesian and Hindi poet of 13th century known as Amir Khusru. There are two famous Khusrus. One of sub continent Amir Khusru and other of central Asia Nasir Khusru. Let me give an example of Rekhta by Amir Khusru;

ZA HAL E MISKEEN MA KUN TAGHAFUL, DO RAI NAINA BANAI BATIYAN
KE TAAB E HIJRAN NA DAREM AY JANAN,NA LAHIO KAAHEY LAGAI CHHATIYAN (Amir Khusru)

This is an example of Rekhta, half persian and half Hindi. You can find Persian/Urdu/Hindi mix up of wordings in Bollywood songs a lot now adays.

Now come to ginanic literature, our pirs also have used this technique of Rekhta. In many ginans we find wordings of different languages mix up together and this is the beauti of poetry. Pirs have used different languages in ginans, Hindi, Sindhi, Gujrati, Marhathi, Bhojpuri, Punjabi, Siraiki/Multani, Persian, Arabic and so on, that's why pir Sadruddin used the term "chhatrees varan"in one of his ginan.

[nuseri]

To:Kmaherali:ya Ali madad.
in which cover of the book called memoirs name of Imam MSMS is written.It is written as Agakhan III.
this books indifference has been posted by agakhani n other member on it's content.
I respect n acknowledge it's contents,but do not follow it.
Imam spiritiual/intellectual wave length for the audience was at x level as AgakhanIII , as an Imam MSMS to general jamat a farman is at X+ level,
ao member of comitted higher mijalis is x++ level.and to noorani momins it directly to their hearts.
Same Imam in his farmans has told to become like shams tabriz,jesus and hassan bin sabbah.
were they into 24x7 into rites,rituals,customs,ceremonies,tradition symbols etc or much much beyond that.
hassan bin sabbah even eliminated his son of being intent of anti imam inspite of being born n rasied as an Ismaili.
Siratllmustakim if following farmans of present Imam n not memior of past Imam which was foreworded by a christain who may changed the sentence grammertically,which in turns changes the true meaning meant in it.
I have hi expectations from you as an alumni of IIS.
Please use the word Agakhan III and not the word MSMS when quoting
from memoirs ,which you always do n mention the level of expression of that entity.
Study farmans of MHI closely rather than memoirs of Agakhan III.

To zznor:ya Ali madad.
You must thank your parents being ismaili otherwise in a fair probability
you would beeb a kamwaali bai in a city of gujrat now.

Shariati are stereotyped with unkept bushy beards of 6 inches or more n skull caps.etc.
You do not have to go in to personal attack .we ismailis do not wear cap n beard as symbol which separates our physical identity.
Imam does wear cap on ceremonial occasion as per traditions.not 24x7.
sporting a well manicured beard for some person for fancy n few months to suit the face or french beard is OK.
It does NOT reflect a a monk type appearance.we Ismailis have not jumped into mimicking that.
I mentioned the time taken to pray just 2 namaz plus commuting time.
I advocated to saving time by saying thank u god,you are great, bless me god from 19 minutes to 3.5 minutes. repeating same n same thing again as if GOD is deaf or has weak hearing ability.
I just calculated just the time saved is put to work to earn wages or fees to
help humanity.
at level 1.
praying for your own self is good.(level2)
praying for own self and taking qualitative care of own family is better.
praying with intent ( duration can diifer with one's conscience) and serve humanity over n above with mind,body n wealth.is best.(level 3)
A supporting hadith.
The best of religion is service to Humanity.
It is very sad that the ummah observed the external acts of an entity rather than his intellect/noor at higher level of his sayings.

I have not said of elimination of prayers but shortening its repeatation assuming God can hear well.and develop genoursity out of it.
BTW in essence of marifiat there is no shariat.
It is take off from the base at Godspeed.

SAMAJDARO KO ISHAARA KAFI HAI.

Btw where is tret? hello,we all miss you with your sermons n doctrines with it

[kmaherali]

I have hi expectations from you as an alumni of IIS.
Please use the word Agakhan III and not the word MSMS when quoting
from memoirs ,which you always do n mention the level of expression of that entity.
Study farmans of MHI closely rather than memoirs of Agakhan III.

When the Imam speaks to others, he just expresses himself differently. He does not change himself from being MSMS to being Aga Khan III. As far as Ismailis are concerned, he is the same person. For the rest of the world he is the Aga Khan, but for Ismailis he is always MHI, whether he makes a Farman or speaks in public.

Are you saying that we should not follow whatever the Imam speaks in public?

As far as prayers are concerned, all the Imams have expressed importance. MHI has said in his Farman.

"Attend Jamat Khana regularly and pray regularly because it is only this that can give you real happiness."

"You must above all be regular in your religious duties, in your prayers."

[nuseri]

To Kmaherali: Ya Ali madad.

I respect you as a wise Haqiqati momin on this forum.

As a respect I do not name MHI as Agakhan IV mostly as 'ALI' the ultimate name of GOD as we say that in our tasbih. not even initials SKAH as SHAH KARIM AL HUSAINY.

Why are you stooping down to level of memoirs.
There was farman of Imam SMS to undermine the message written in his memoirs as it was not meant for Ismailis to inspire or follow it.

BTW, I do not follow the speeches of Agakhan IV to be binding upon me.I respect n acknowledge them totally

Your name comes moderator in green ink in bottom.

[Admin]

To Kmaherali: Your name comes moderator in green ink in bottom.

There is no such thing as name coming in green ink.
Kmaherali is not a Moderator.
The only Moderator on this Board is Admin.

[kmaherali]

Why are you stooping down to level of memoirs.
There was farman of Imam SMS to undermine the message written in his memoirs as it was not meant for Ismailis to inspire or follow it.

BTW, I do not follow the speeches of Agakhan IV to be binding upon me.I respect n acknowledge them totally

Your name comes moderator in green ink in bottom.

Memoirs contain interesting and useful information about MSMS. Wouldn't you consider it as a useful source of information.

Just because it is directed towards non-Ismailis and hence it's expression is different, it does not follow that we should not accept the information and knowledge inside it.

Since the Imam addresses humanity in his speeches, are you not part of humanity as well? Or do you consider yourself above everyone else?

[kmaherali]

There is an interesting article on the problems that secularization has created.

"Secularisation has really created a void of understanding"

http://en.qantara.de/content/interview- ... -a-void-of

Excerpt:

The relationship between Europe and religion has been extremely difficult for the past 300 years. How do the conditions of secularisation and atheism influence the relationship between Europe and the Muslims living here? Does a post-Christian Europe influence the European concept of Islam?

Mishra: It does to a great extent, because having lost a vital link to Christianity, which was really in many ways a kind of invisible basis of European unity down through centuries, I think the whole experience of what it is to be a religious person – to have one's horizons defined by a transcendental presence, by a being who is not visible, who is constantly watching over you – very few people who are secularised now, who have lost faith, who have lost religious faith, who are no longer Christians, to whom Christianity is only a name, have great difficulty understanding that for many people in the world today – not just Muslims – morality, a way of being in the world, can really only come from religion and from religious faith.

I think that is creating a big problem of understanding in large parts of Europe because Europe has lost that experience that very few people are religious in the old way in Europe and that secularisation has really created a void of understanding.

[junglikhan4]

Is God on vacation?
There are calamities and miseries on planet earth, disasters after disasters, wars, hunger, illnesses, killings, migration of victims; Where is manager of universe? Why not God stops sending more innocent souls on earth when previous ones are in hardships. God restore the order or wind up the universe. When God is on vacation, who is the care taker!

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad:
ALI is not on vacation.
But the world who is paying the price for its ignorance for not accepting final book and Imam.
In his speech HH the AgaKhan is Houston few years back,its extract is there today of top of the home page.
The world debate on right religion is clash of ignorance maybe 95-99% of world population.
The cost of that ignorance will at their PERIL.
The simple desi word meaning aafat an barbaadi.
That what is seen today. Taking que from Ayats n sayings of Imams,this Peril is just a tip of the iceberg.it may go even 10-100 times more worse.
Science in few decades that world is not warming but Boiling.
Ayats tell what will happen to unbelievers and those who wronged the world of Ali+lah= Allah.
It is the prayers of devouts of all religions ALI is still merciful.
But the price has to paid .
There ma b real hell who hates the concept of ALI.
it is matter of one generation of earlier to SEE that.
Mini samples of it are seen on TV daily.

[kmaherali]

Is God on vacation?
There are calamities and miseries on planet earth, disasters after disasters, wars, hunger, illnesses, killings, migration of victims; Where is manager of universe? Why not God stops sending more innocent souls on earth when previous ones are in hardships. God restore the order or wind up the universe. When God is on vacation, who is the care taker!

There is a pertinent artcile at:

Tsunami and God
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... sunami+god
Excerpt:

The same truth can be applied to earthquakes, hurricanes, lightning and tornadoes. Most of the time, most of us, whether rich or poor, live in complete safety, unshaken, unburned, untouched by the ravages of nature. God's providential goodness is simply taken for granted.
Ironically, the cataclysmic events that most often lead many to question God, can, in their absence, provide some of the strongest evidence of God's caring and protecting presence. And sometimes, it takes a disaster to wake us up to this fact.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad:.
Just on news ticker on CNN right now.
Humans won't survive the heat in Arabian gulf countries.
I reminds me of an ayat.can anyone tell which it could be?
ALI WILL SPARE NO ROD.

[kmaherali]

Ya Ali Madad:.
Just on news ticker on CNN right now.
Humans won't survive the heat in Arabian gulf countries.
I reminds me of an ayat.can anyone tell which it could be?
ALI WILL SPARE NO ROD.

That may be true as per article below:

Deadly Heat Is Forecast in Persian Gulf by 2100

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/27/scien ... d=71987722

However I don't share your interpretations about it.

[mazharshah]

Ya Ali Madad:.
Just on news ticker on CNN right now.
Humans won't survive the heat in Arabian gulf countries.
I reminds me of an ayat.can anyone tell which it could be?
ALI WILL SPARE NO ROD.

That may be true as per article below:

Deadly Heat Is Forecast in Persian Gulf by 2100

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/27/scien ... d=71987722

However I don't share your interpretations about it.

That will happen sooner or later because of carpet bombing of few areas in middle east. Oil wells and oil facilities will catch fire and that will be scene of dooms day. This heat will affect parts of Pakistan and India as well.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad:
Very poor information and ignorance.
In any event of fire or blast in oil field or refineries.
The physical effect of asset is maximum up to 2 km diameters. The fire are put off in days or a week.the heat impact from core area is maximum around 500 meters diameter for first few hours only.
The smog or oil may can spread out across areas.
They harm marine life not humans directly.
Many news of such blast n fires come on TV ,thing are normal in town 10 kms away.

[mazharshah]

Ya Ali Madad:
Very poor information and ignorance.
In any event of fire or blast in oil field or refineries.
The physical effect of asset is maximum up to 2 km diameters. The fire are put off in days or a week.the heat impact from core area is maximum around 500 meters diameter for first few hours only.
The smog or oil may can spread out across areas.
They harm marine life not humans directly.
Many news of such blast n fires come on TV ,thing are normal in town 10 kms away.

Beside marine life , human health is also affected. In first Iraq/USA war,Saddam ordered to burn the oil wells in Kuwait. 1000+ oil wells were set on fire that affected the climate resulting shortness of breath and sufferings for Asthma patients. It took more than three months to put off that fires but damage was done. Few years back in Karachi 400,000+ dead fishes found
on surface of sea. Same situation happened couple of times at coastal line of India from Gujrat to Kerala. Just imagine some fanatic group or any government can use smart tiny atom bomb in that area, that will affect not only the whole region but definitely will affect subcontinent. Just think of tsunamis.

[Admin]

ca.style.yahoo.com/post/134430706280/climate-change-will-make-these-major-cities

Climate Change Will Make These Major Cities Uninhabitable By 2100


December 2, 2015

It’s scary stuff, but according to a new scientific study, recently released in Nature Climate Change, cities such as Dubai, Doha, Abu Dhabi, and Bandar Abbas in the Persian Gulf will be too hot to sustain human life. Looking at current populations of those cities, that’s nearly 5 million people who would be displaced.

The study explores regional climate models for the Middle East, concluding that a shift in normal temperatures could see extreme heat waves reach up to 170 degrees Fahrenheit by the year 2100, impacting human habitability in the region.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
There would be some study that that the heat waves can hit 20-30 years earlier in cities like Riyadh and Jeddah area.
It also faces the threat of MERS virus to activate.Not to forget acts of Russia to finish the origin
of ideologyideology areas.

[kmaherali]

Farman Regarding Diaappearance of the Ummah

The identification with a tradition of interpretation of Islam and its intellectual strength is a guiding principle. Part of the Muslim world is going precisely in the opposite direction of obscurantist, narrow-minded, blinkered attitudes which are anchored in past times, and which in my view would mean the ultimate disappearance of much of the Ummah, because they will face either a form of marginalization from the modern world, or they will adopt the modern world and forget their traditional values. This is not the interpretation of Islam that I will ever wish to see in our Jamat.

Aiglemont, July 8, 1999

This is the echo of MSMS's Farman: Deens not based on reason will gradually disappear.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
Excellent research.
May be a generation away it would be Ismailis followed by Christians and then a part of Ummah (that would be Shia and Sunni practising ibaadat n Sufi tariqa guided by Noor of Ali)
2015 look like begining,there are 37% of the world is non religious,
In 75 year what percentage it can Be? it was near zero 100 years back.the speed took up in last 15 years from 20% to 37%.
Any guess?

[FreeLancer]

We pray, and pray, and pray but 99.99% of our prayers are not granted. No doubt these prayers stay in the super computer of God for process till number comes (first come first served) Banda muk janda ee.
God is a good listener but accepting prayers is slow in action. Therefore why waste our time repeatedly imploring and disturbing God, at all He has other appointments also. God is awake we can not awake Him more. Let us use our brain power and struggle.

[kmaherali]

We pray, and pray, and pray but 99.99% of our prayers are not granted. No doubt these prayers stay in the super computer of God for process till number comes (first come first served) Banda muk janda ee.
God is a good listener but accepting prayers is slow in action. Therefore why waste our time repeatedly imploring and disturbing God, at all He has other appointments also. God is awake we can not awake Him more. Let us use our brain power and struggle.

The function of prayer is not to influence God,
but rather to change the nature of the one who prays.
- Soren Kierkegaard

[FreeLancer]

We pray, and pray, and pray but 99.99% of our prayers are not granted. No doubt these prayers stay in the super computer of God for process till number comes (first come first served) Banda muk janda ee.
God is a good listener but accepting prayers is slow in action. Therefore why waste our time repeatedly imploring and disturbing God, at all He has other appointments also. God is awake we can not awake Him more. Let us use our brain power and struggle.

The function of prayer is not to influence God,
but rather to change the nature of the one who prays.
- Soren Kierkegaard

Of course the function of prayer is not to influence God, because in prayer a person beseech, implore, request down to earth, do giryahzari for problem solving, blessings, khair o Aafiyat, progress, success and so on.
I could not grasp second line ' but rather to change the nature of the one who prays', can you elaborate?

[FreeLancer]

VOICE MAIL OF GOD:

We have all learned to live with voice mail as a necessary part of modern life. But you may have wondered, "What if God decided to install voice mail?" Imagine praying and hearing this...

Thank you for calling My office.
Please select one of the following options:

Press 1 for request
Press 2 for thanksgiving
Press 3 for complaints
Press 4 for all other inquiries

What if God used the familiar excuse, "All the angels are helping other customers right now. Please stay on the line. Your call will be answered in the order it was received.


Can you imagine getting these kinds of response as you call on God in prayer?

If you would like to speak to Adam, press 1 now
If you would like to speak to Noah, press 2 now
For a directory of other Prophets, press 3 now
If you would like to hear Quran, press 4 now
If you would like to hear Hadiths press 5 now
To find out if a love one has been assigned to heaven, enter his or her
date of birth now.

For reservations at Heaven, press the numbers 786.

For answers on questions about Noor, Soul, Qayamah, the age of earth and where Noah's Ark is, please wait until you arrive here.

Our computers show that you have already called once today. Please hang up and try again tomorrow.

[kmaherali]

I could not grasp second line ' but rather to change the nature of the one who prays', can you elaborate?

Prayer is the expression of our insufficiency and total reliance on God. We realize that whatever God wills for us is the best that can happen regardless of whether our wishes are fulfilled.

Hence prayer engenders humility and gratitude.