when we get dua asish why we dont ask from Allah (swt)

sh12430 · Post by **sh12430** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:14 pm

When we get dua asish in jamat khana from mukhi or kameria saheb why they say
"Ya Ali" and the dua . Why dont they say "Ya Allah" and the dua. In Quran their are lots of verse which stated that ask from me no one elss. Any other sect in muslim example sunni they never say "ya Muhammad" always take almighty name Allah (swt) .

Can any on please tell me why we make comparison of the Maula or Ali name and never say Allah ? Who grant our wishes/dua the almighty Allah or his prophets/ Imam?

Post by **Admin** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:51 pm

Ali is also the name of Allah. You should therefore not have any objection that both mean the same and can be used interchangeably. In fact I would suggest that you also use that name in your prayers and do not discriminate between the vaous names of Alah.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:12 am

Admin wrote:Ali is also the name of Allah. You should therefore not have any objection that both mean the same and can be used interchangeably. In fact I would suggest that you also use that name in your prayers and do not discriminate between the vaous names of Alah.

sh12430

What admin said is not correct

Ali was a person who was born and died, he was not god.

Ali is not another name of Allah
Allah or Khuda in Farsi has 99 Attribute
One of attribute is

"AL-'ALIYY"
meaning The Most High
and is referenced in (2:255) (4:34) (31:30) (42:4) (42:51)

Google "99 names of God" You would find all 99 attributes.

You do not call Allah by other attribute like
"Ya Al-Hadi", or "Ya Al-Gafur" or "Ya Al-Kabir"
Why you call "Ya Ali"?

As per Tauhid you only ask Allah for favors.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:35 am

In his memoir, our 48th Imam states:

"The Shias have therefore always held that after the Prophet's death, Divine power, guidance and leadership manifested themselves in Hazrat Ali as the first Imam or spiritual chief of the devout."

There have been many discussions on the topic. You may want to go to one of them at:

Doctrines --> CAN SAYING 'YA ALY' BE A SIN.

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... sc&start=0

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:43 am

Kmaherali

It does not matter who Ismailis ask for help or they call 'Ya Ali'.

It is mistake to say Ali is another name of Allah. Ali is not another name of Allah.

Allah has 99 attributes and one of them is Al Aliyya

I was making that point

Post by **Admin** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:01 pm

Who did our prophet (PBUH) call to his help at the battle of Khayber?

Did he call Ali the Name of Allah
Did he call Ali the Attribute of Allah
Did he call Ali the Eternal Imam?

Who came when he called Ali to his help?

Did not all 3 [concepts] three of them come all in One?

Who won the war for the Prophet [PBUH]? Which Ali?

Which Ali did the Prophet (PBUH) praised and credited for the Victory?

sh12430 · Post by **sh12430** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:52 am

Well isnt that shirk when we ask from the name of Ali. Even Imam Ali is send by almight Allah (swt). In the Quran their are so many references, where it says ask from the creator.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:57 am

sh12430 wrote:Well isnt that shirk when we ask from the name of Ali. Even Imam Ali is send by almight Allah (swt). In the Quran their are so many references, where it says ask from the creator.

There are many Ayas in Quran which prohibits joining other gods, saints, auliyas or religious leaders with Allah. Joing others with Allah is Shirk.
Here is one

“…and be not amongst those who join gods with Allah, those who split up their Religion, and become shias (sects) - each party rejoicing in that which is with itself.” (Quran, 30:31-32)

So majority of Muslims do not associate anybody with Allah

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:13 pm

Admin wrote:Who did our prophet (PBUH) call to his help at the battle of Khayber?

Did he call Ali the Name of Allah

He called Ali and asked him to help him. Do you have his exact words?

Did he call Ali the Attribute of Allah

I do not think he did but do you have proof?

Did he call Ali the Eternal Imam?

I do not think he did but do you have proof?

Who came when he called Ali to his help?

Hz Imam Ali

Did not all 3 [concepts] three of them come all in One?

I do not think all 3 concepts did but do you have proof otherwise or it is your belief?

Who won the war for the Prophet [PBUH]? Which Ali?

Hz Imam Ali(s), a exaulted human being

Which Ali did the Prophet (PBUH) praised and credited for the Victory?

Hz Imam Ali (s), a exaulted human being

Post by **Admin** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:25 pm

I am not an optician in the business of selling glasses, if I was, I would give you a free gift to replace your yellow glasses with clear transparent glasses so you could see things as they are from the eyes of a believer and not distorted with the yellow colour of Shariah. Sorry.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:21 pm

Admin wrote:I am not an optician in the business of selling glasses, if I was, I would give you a free gift to replace your yellow glasses with clear transparent glasses so you could see things as they are from the eyes of a believer and not distorted with the yellow colour of Shariah. Sorry.

No Thank you
I have 20/20 vision
I am practicing, Progressive Muslim and believe in "There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his last Prophet".

I accept fact that eye of believer can see same thing in different shade.

There are millions of Muslims practicing some sort of Sharia and they out number those who practice Baatil Sharia.

All I am trying to make a point is that Hz Ali is not Allah nor Ali is alternate name of Allah from perspective of majority of Muslims and Qur'an supports it.There is only one Qur'an availble to Umma and all pretendders of "Bolta Qur'an" are silent so far.
We will cross the bridge when they decide to open their mouth or publish their version of Qur'an.

Do not feel sorry for me. I have faith in Allah and his commands as in Qur'an and do utmost to follow it. Allah has been very kind to me.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:43 pm

All I am trying to make a point is that Hz Ali is not Allah nor Ali is alternate name of Allah from perspective of majority of Muslims and Qur'an supports it.There is only one Qur'an availble to Umma and all pretendders of "Bolta Qur'an" are silent so far.
We will cross the bridge when they decide to open their mouth or publish their version of Qur'an.

But Zznoor, the shias believe in wasila...what is so wrong in taking H.Imam Ali[as] as the wasila.

In the same holy quran, allah[swt] forgives the sins of the sinners when rasool[saw] ask for forgiveness.

Im not saying Imam Ali[as] is god or god head...All Im saying is all the imams are representative of allah[swt] and if we ask forgiveness from allah[swt] through H.Imam Ali[as] [unlike in the past, how people used to ask forgiveness through prophet[saw]]....what is sooo wrong with that ??

Once again I dont believe in ali allah theory...because its a theory, but I do believe that Im a shia of ali[as]....the lion of allah[swt]

Hadith Al Wilayah

"Verily, ALI and I are inseparable, and he is the master (wali) of every believer after me."

Sunni Refernces:

* Al Tirmidhi, in his Sahih, ii, 297,

* Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iv, 437, v, 356;

* Abu Dawud al Tayalisi in his Musnad, iii, 111, xi, 360;

* al Haythami, Majma al Zawaid, ix, 109, 127, 128, 199;

* al Khatib al Baghdadi, Tarikh Baghdad, iv, 339;

* al Muhibb al Tabari, al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 203, 171;

* al Muttaqi al Hindi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 154, 155, 396, 401;

* Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, v, 94;

* Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya, vi, 294;

*al Nasa'i, Khasais, 19, 23;

Hadith Al-Muqatalah

Al Nasa'i in Khasa'is, 40, reports this tradition on the authority of Abu Said al Khudri:

Abu Said al Khudri reports: "We sat waiting for the Messenger of Allah (pbuh&hp) when he came out to meet us. The strap of his sandal was broken and he tossed it to Ali. Then he (pbuh&hp) said: "A man amongst you will fight the people over the tawil (interpretation) of the Quran in the same way as I have fought over its tanzil (revelation)." Thereupon Abu Bakr said, 'Is that I?' The Prophet (pbuh&hp) said: "No." Then Umar asked him, 'Is that I?' "No." said the Prophet (pbuh&hp). "It is the mender of the sandal (i.e. Ali)."

Other Sunni References:

* al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 122;

* Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iii, 33, 82;

* Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya', i, 67;

* Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, iii, 282, iv, 33;

* Ibn Hajar, al Isabah, i, 22, iv, 152;

* Ibn Abd al Barr, al lsti`ab, ii, 423;

* al Haythami, Majma al Zawa'id, v, 186;

* al Muttaqi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 155, 390, 391.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:50 pm

We will cross the bridge when they decide to open their mouth or publish their version of Qur'an.

The Prophet (P.B.U.H) said, “No one is permitted on the Bridge except by the wilayat of Ali (A.S).” Ibn Al-Maghazeli, 15; Al-Isti^ab, 2/457 [sunni]

But I pray that you do cross that bridge

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:04 pm

There are millions of Muslims practicing some sort of Sharia and they out number those who practice Baatil Sharia

The Prophet (P.B.U.H) said, “The position of Ali (A.S) amongst the people is like Surat Qul Hu Allahu Ahad in the Qur’an.”

Sunni :

Muslim, 1/48; Al-Tirmidhi, 2/299; Al-Nisa’i, 27; Musnad Ahmad, 6/299; Ibn Al-Maghazeli, 191.

http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/books.asp

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:37 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:
There are millions of Muslims practicing some sort of Sharia and they out number those who practice Baatil Sharia
The Prophet (P.B.U.H) said, “The position of Ali (A.S) amongst the people is like Surat Qul Hu Allahu Ahad in the Qur’an.”

Sunni :

Muslim, 1/48; Al-Tirmidhi, 2/299; Al-Nisa’i, 27; Musnad Ahmad, 6/299; Ibn Al-Maghazeli, 191.

http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/books.asp

Shiraz

Link is incomplete

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:59 pm

Shiraz

Link is incomplete

Zznoor,

No acutally you have to click on the icon that looks more like a DNA

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:28 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:
Shiraz

Link is incomplete
Zznoor,

No acutally you have to click on the icon that looks more like a DNA

I am trying to verify Ahadith referred

First 2 are as below

Sahih Muslim Book 001, Hadith Number 0048.
Sahih Muslim Book 01. Faith
Chapter : He who meets his Lord with implicit faith would enter Heaven and fire would be forbidden to harm him.
It is narrated on the authority of Mu'adh b. Jabal that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Mu'adh, do you know the right of Allah over His bondsmen? He (Mu'adh) said: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Messenger of Allah) said: That Allah alone should be worshipped and nothing should be associated with Him. He (the Holy Prophet) said: What right have they (bondsmen) upon Him in case they do it? He (Mu'adh) said: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) said: That He would not punish them.

Sunan at-Timidhi
Chapter no: 2, Book of Salah (Prayers) hadis, hadeeth, hadist
Hadith no: 299
Narrated / Authority of:
A similar version from the same sanad is reported by sanad from a Marwan ibn Mu'awiyah and Abu Mu'awiyah who from Aasim Ahwal, saying: (You are blessed O Owner of Glory and Honour) There is no God but Allah Alone. He has no partner. To Him belongs the Kingdom and for Him is all praise. He gives life and causes death. And, He is over all things Capable. 0 Allah, no one can deny what you grant and no one can give what you deny. And the effort of one who makes effort cannot help him against You He would also say: Glorified be you, Lord of Majesty above what they describe! And peace be upon the Messenger and all praise belongs to Allah, the Lord of the worlds. These are verses of the Quran 37: 180.182

I could not find hadith quoted by you
I believe in trust but verify

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:11 pm

I could not find hadith quoted by you
I believe in trust but verify

Because you are looking at the wrong place my dear....Its not Al Tirmidhi book 2 hadith 297-299

Its Al Tirmidhi VOLUME 2, page number 297 ...Hope this helps

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:11 am

Shiraz

What do you understand of hadith you posted?
So far I am not successful to locate full hadith.

The Prophet (P.B.U.H) said, “The position of Ali (A.S) amongst the people is like Surat Qul Hu Allahu Ahad in the Qur’an.”

Surat Ikhalass is about Tauhid.

It is about unity of one God (Allah), but how that connects to Imam Ali?

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:23 pm

Zznoor,

The problem is that there are sooo many publishers who publish these hadiths and sometimes its really difficult for us to find out the exact hadith or the exact page number that they have given us.

But I will try to find the name of the publisher if I could

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:52 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:Zznoor,

The problem is that there are sooo many publishers who publish these hadiths and sometimes its really difficult for us to find out the exact hadith or the exact page number that they have given us.

But I will try to find the name of the publisher if I could

Shiraz
Following Shiachat forum has Hadith praising Imam Ali but

I did not find hadith you posted

Some of the famous traditions in praise of Imam Ali recorded in the books of our Sunni Brothers
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php ... ni-hadith/[/b]

mominmomin103 · Post by **mominmomin103** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:35 am

i gave u sugeestion read the ginan of pir shams

"haq tun pak tun" u will get the answer of these question