A small ball of soil used to melt in Niaz!!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:24 am

Did you know that:-
Till the time of Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah (s.a.) and during the time our old Gatpat Du'a ceremony a small ball of soil (clay)
( માટી, میتی ) known as "GOLI" used to melt in Abesafa?

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:50 pm

I think that this way of devotion still exists in ishna shari group....they use this clay of karbala and mix it with zam zam water

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:36 pm

Interesting,
Does Ishashari sect has Abesaga ceremony like Ismailis? or they just melt the Karbala clay in water?

In my opinion it is nothing wrong to melt Karabala clay in water and drink it, therefore we Ismailis did that for long time, it only shows the devotion towards Imam Hussain (s.a.) and the 71 other peoples, who were killed during "Battle of Karbala". I salute these peoples.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:27 pm

Interesting,
Does Ishashari sect has Abesaga ceremony like Ismailis? or they just melt the Karbala clay in water?

I dont think that our brothers and sisters of ishna shari sect have an official ghatpat ceremony but yes even they treat this holy water [clay from karbala mixed with zam zam water] with atmost respect. I dunno if they call it abe shafa or zam zam paani but whatever it is , it doesnt bother me because as long as the person has faith ....HE'Z GOOD

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:42 am

Btw I would really appreciate if you promote love instead of hatred towards our fellow brothers and sisters.

I dont think that our brothers and sisters of ishna shari sect have an official ghatpat ceremony

And I totally agree with you Shiraz, We should respects all our Muslims brothers and sisters no matter which sects they follows, we are all Muslims that is bottom line.

ohifwinterends · Post by **ohifwinterends** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:55 pm

agakhani wrote:Interesting,
Does Ishashari sect has Abesaga ceremony like Ismailis? or they just melt the Karbala clay in water?

In my opinion it is nothing wrong to melt Karabala clay in water and drink it, therefore we Ismailis did that for long time, it only shows the devotion towards Imam Hussain (s.a.) and the 71 other peoples, who were killed during "Battle of Karbala". I salute these peoples.

No, it is not a part of mainstream twelver Shi'a practice to drink Karbala clay mixed with water. (I am ithna ashari by the way.)

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:23 am

No, it is not a part of mainstream twelver Shi'a practice to drink Karbala clay mixed with water. (I am ithna ashari by the way.)

Thanks for correcting us, that means you drink only water of "ZamZam' well as a holy water without mixing clay of Karbala, is this is true?
Second question since you are Ithna Ashri brother.
I heard that after you finish your Namaz/salat you recites the names of your 11 Imams (or some Imams) and send salam walekum to them? and also send salam to Prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.) too, is this true too?

ohifwinterends · Post by **ohifwinterends** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:15 pm

agakhani wrote:
No, it is not a part of mainstream twelver Shi'a practice to drink Karbala clay mixed with water. (I am ithna ashari by the way.)
Thanks for correcting us, that means you drink only water of "ZamZam' well as a holy water without mixing clay of Karbala, is this is true?
Second question since you are Ithna Ashri brother.
I heard that after you finish your Namaz/salat you recites the names of your 11 Imams (or some Imams) and send salam walekum to them? and also send salam to Prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.) too, is this true too?

Yes, zam zam water, but no Karbala clay in it. The only thing we use Karbala clay for is the turbah.
Oh, I am a sister by the way, haha.

I actually do not. Ithna Ashari may send peace on the 12 imams after namaz, but I cannot verify this, because I have never seen a Shi'a person pray in real life. There is a Shi'a masjid over here, but it's not open all the time and is very disorganized. During the namaz though, both Sunni and Shi'a wish peace on Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) and Ahlul Bait.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:00 am

My bad sister, sorry for my big mistake.
Thanks again for your decent explanation, one more question here, what is "Turbah" and if you not mind to tell us why you converted from Sunny to Ithna ashari?

both Sunni and Shi'a wish peace on Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) and Ahlul Bait.

So do we Ismailis, we are Shi'a Muslim, we also send peace on Prophet Mohmmad (s.a.) and his Aal( Ahle Bait) many times in our prayers and in salwats.

ohifwinterends · Post by **ohifwinterends** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:21 pm

agakhani wrote:My bad sister, sorry for my big mistake.
Thanks again for your decent explanation, one more question here, what is "Turbah" and if you not mind to tell us why you converted from Sunny to Ithna ashari?
both Sunni and Shi'a wish peace on Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) and Ahlul Bait.
So do we Ismailis, we are Shi'a Muslim, we also send peace on Prophet Mohmmad (s.a.) and his Aal( Ahle Bait) many times in our prayers and in salwats.

Shi'a pray with a little clay stone from Karbala. When we prostrate out forehead touches the stone. The reason why Shi'a do this is because in ahadith Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) was known to pray on dirt or clay more than other things. We use Karbala clay because of it's great significance. Here is a picture of a turbah:

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:00 am

Here is a picture of a turbah:

Thanks for the cute and nice picture of a Turbah.

how Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) passed down succession to Ali (AS) at Ghadeer Khum and many ahadith about the elevated status of Ahlul Bait (AS). I then became Shi'a.

You did a right move and become Shi'a, that is true that there are many hadiths about Ghadeer Khum and many ayats in Qurans as well about the Hazarat Ali (s.a.) but the interpreters always hided Hazarat Ali (s.a.) and his importance roll.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:29 pm

Interesting !!...Now since we have a shia imami ismaili = Agakhani bhai and Non ismaili Shia = You...I would like to ask both of you a very simple question

We all say that our sect will enter paradise, shia's would say the same about their sects and sunnis would do the same....and not just that even christians believe that and so do hindus,sikhs and jews.

Im not sure whether you both came accross a sura in holy quran where almighty said ....No matter who you are [jew/muslim/christian or a member of any other faith] ...If you do good and believe in god you'll enter paradise...@ above is not the literal aayat but I just interpreted it in my way

So when almighty has cleared our confusion as to who we should be or shouldnt what makes you both think that your religion is the only religion that would guarantee janah while other religion would not ??

I know this is not related to the above topic but I would really appreciate if you could give your insight about the above question

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:24 am

So when almighty has cleared our confusion as to who we should be or shouldnt what makes you both think that your religion is the only religion that would guarantee janah while other religion would not ??

Shirz, as a scholar, educated and talented person like you ask me this question is really surprise me but since you already asked me this question then I have to give you answer, my answer is very simple and very short and it is 'NO', you don't need to be a Shi'ite or Ismailis to enter in heaven, any followers of Almighty Allah can go in heaven or in hell no matter which sect they follows if heaven and hell really exist. In my opinion all followers are same in the eyes of Almighty Allah and Allah treat all them same way because they also created by him. but we should act and do good deeds in our lives to get this benefits, you must heard this very popular proverb from Bible :-
"As you sow, so shall you reap" and also you must heard this Krishna's saying in Gita;
"कर्म करेजा फल की इच्छा मत कर यह इन्सान,
जैसा कर्म करेंगा वैसा फल देगा भगवान"

As per my thinking every one goes in heaven ( if heaven is really exists because this issue is very controversial issue for a longtime) if they do good deeds in their lives,no matter which sects they follows Sunny sect, Christianity , Buddhism, Jewish, Hinduism or Shi'ite sect they will go in heaven or receive benefits for their good deeds in their lives, but if they do bad deeds in their lives then they will go in hell or they will face lots of difficluties in their lives.

Let me ask you same old question here does heaven and hell really exist? the ayah you referred above is true and I also heard that many time but if we goes by this ayahs then there should be heaven and hell some where in this universe, but where are they? why we can not see them? other hand lots of people believe that heaven and hell is nothing else but it is our state of mind There is no geographical places for heaven and hell.

"All other religions are exoteric, if in this world you do good deeds then after your death you will go to Heaven. But our religion is such that if you act with a clean heart according to its preachings, pray regularly and be pure, then you can acquire Heaven during your life time"(MSMS, Precious Pearls, No. 53)
Above quote has been taken from Kbhai's post, from the following link you may visit this link for more detail, but here I am repeating my answer again; "NO" you don't need to be a Ismaili or Shi'ite sect followers to go in heaven any followers can go heaven if he/she do good deeds in their lives, this is my answer as per my little knowledge and ability.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... eaven+hell

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:25 pm

Shirz, as a scholar, educated and talented person like you ask me this question is really surprise me but since you already asked me this question then I have to give you answer, my answer is very simple and very short and it is 'NO', you don't need to be a Shi'ite or Ismailis to enter in heaven, any followers of Almighty Allah can go in heaven or in hell no matter which sect they follows if heaven and hell really exist. In my opinion all followers are same in the eyes of Almighty Allah and Allah treat all them same way because they also created by him. but we should act and do good deeds in our lives to get this benefits, you must heard this very popular proverb from Bible :-
"As you sow, so shall you reap" and also you must heard this Krishna's saying in Gita;
"कर्म करेजा फल की इच्छा मत कर यह इन्सान,
जैसा कर्म करेंगा वैसा फल देगा भगवान"

Thank you agakhani bhai for your quick response...Now we both agree that you dont have to belong to particular sect in order to reach your final destination = Jannah[7th stage or heaven].....but if we read our ginans, our pirs say that this religion or sect = ismailism is the only true religion that will take us or lead us to jannah [7th stage/ 7th heaven] .

And in my previous posts i.e Heaven and Hell I did mentioned that heaven according to me = Progress = Getting higher and higher in ranks and we humans currently reside on the lowest heaven [there are 7 heavens mentioned in quran] ....A human may or may not climb all or reach all 7 heavens during his lifetime but his soul can !! As we all know that a soul never dies but instead finds its sustanence[spell check] from almighty ....So yes heaven is of 2 kinds = Physical and spiritual

But my question to you is if all the religions lead to allah[swt] or help a person lead to its final destination = 7th heaven why do some ismaili pirs say that this religion is the only religion that guarantees heaven ?? Not just the even our missionaries say the same story again n again n again ...why ??

Pir Sadardin in one of his ginans said

Eji Aa kaljoog maa(n)he pir bahot kilaave
Ne tis thaki se(n)sa na mate
Ek ji o ji, jirebhai re

O Brother, In this Kaljoog there are false Pirs
through whose guidance the
final goal can never be reached.
He is the only Glorious, O brother.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:42 am

Brother shiraz,
May be I am wrong but I never read anywhere in Ismaili ginans that any pir claimed that Ismaili religion is the only true religion.
Of course Ismaili pirs wrote about "SATPANTH DHARAM" or "SANATAN DHARMA" and true meaning of these two words in Arabic is "Shiratal Mustakim" but this could be any religion not necessarily Ismaili religion only it could be Shi'ite, it could be Sunnis, it could be Christianity, Hinduism, or any other religion which follows according the guideline and hidayat received from Allah through their prophets during their times.
Of course pirs has criticized others in their ginans for "Butparasti" idol worshiping, take bath in Ganga rivers, worshiping trees and fire and so on but in my thinking they never claimed that Ismaili is the only true religion.
The religion of King Harishchandra during his time was Satpanth, the religion of Pandavs during their time was also Satpanth and they all received salvation or in other words they all went in heaven according Hindu purans and our ginans and their religion were not Ismaili or they were not the followers of Allah matter of fact nobody knows the name of Allah at that time!!
The ginanic verses noted above by you doesn't say that Ismaili religion is the only true religion. I need more ginanic verses from you which shows that pir claimed that only Ismaili religion is the only true religion, if you have in mind please write it here.
That is right some untrained and young waezin who usually memorizes few farmans, few ginans, few ayats,and few hadiths from here and there and start to consider themselves as a big waezin and big scholar and this type waezin "MAY AND PERHAPS" tell this that Ismaili is the only true religion in jamat khanas because I never heard this in any waez but well trained, experienced waezins will not.
Now my turn for question.
Prophet Mohammaed ( Sallaho Allahi Waslam) told in one Hadith that: There will be 73 sects in my ummah, 72 of them will go to hell while only one will go in heaven.
This hadith has been written by well known Sunny scholars in many books and also well known 3 books from "Sihah Sitta i.e Ibne Maja, Abu Daood and Sahih Tirmizi too.
Question: which sect will be that lucky sect which will go in heaven?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:58 am

shiraz.virani wrote: But my question to you is if all the religions lead to allah[swt] or help a person lead to its final destination = 7th heaven why do some ismaili pirs say that this religion is the only religion that guarantees heaven ?? Not just the even our missionaries say the same story again n again n again ...why ??

The Pirs in the past might have said things for valid reasons reflecting the conditions then. The present Pir encourages us to seek wisdom from wherever so long as it strengthens our understanding of our own culture and traditions. Below is a pertinent quote.

"All cultures naturally influence each other to a greater or lesser degree; the strongest are those in which the dominant elements remain dominant and refuse to be overwhelmed by external forces. They become stronger still when they retain the ability to select, to absorb that which invigorates and enriches and to reject that which is inimicable." [MHI Speech 26 Sept. 1978]

MSMS in his memoirs has said:

"And I further pray that all who truly and sincerely believe in God, be they Christian, Jew, Buddhist, or Brahmin, who strive to do good and avoid evil, who are gentle and kind, will be joined in Heaven and be granted final pardon and peace."

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:36 pm

The Pirs in the past might have said things for valid reasons reflecting the conditions then

I don't think any Pirs from past has also written any where that Ismaili or Islam is the only religion which will lead you to heaven, but they used the word "Satpanth" "Sanatan" instead and any religion can be called satpanth dharma or shiratal Mustakim or " a true religion" as long as the followers of this religion follow the hidayat of Allah and do good deeds in their lives and those peoples are entitled to enter in heaven, no matter which sect they are coming from.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:06 pm

agakhani wrote:
The Pirs in the past might have said things for valid reasons reflecting the conditions then
I don't think any Pirs from past has also written any where that Ismaili or Islam is the only religion which will lead you to heaven, but they used the word "Satpanth" "Sanatan" instead and any religion can be called satpanth dharma or shiratal Mustakim or " a true religion" as long as the followers of this religion follow the hidayat of Allah and do good deeds in their lives and those peoples are entitled to enter in heaven, no matter which sect they are coming from.

The Satpanth that the Pirs refer to in the Ginans is implicitly our tradition established by them in Jampu deep (Indo pak sub continent) predicated upon the devotion to Imamat.

In the aarti there are verses which state:

eji khat darshan to sunya pujaaye
satpanth dharamko maram na paaye.........aartee keeje.........7

O momins! the six schools of Hindu philosophy(or the six methods of salvation) are void of real worship since they have not attained the inner mysteries of the Right Path (i.e. the recognition of the True Guide).

eji satpanth dharma aaraadho moraa bhaai
to anant karodd jeevne hui chhe vadhaayi..aartee keeje........8

O momins! if you follow the Right Path(properly), then there will be good news to the innumerable liberated souls(as you will be joining them).

Then in the varanni (refrain) after every verse we recite:

satgur sohodev raah bataai
baargur peer sadardeen dish bataai....aartee keeje......

The True Guide, Peer Sadardeen(Sohdev) has shown the Way.
The Guide of twelve crore liberated ones(Bargur - Peer Sadardeen) has shown the (right) direction.

Hence Satpanth is the path shown by Pir Sadardeen

In the Ginan Nur te khak nipaya it is stated:

"Follow the path of Panjtan Paak:
(And) keep your faith on (this) true path (Sat panth)"

Which implies that Satpanth is the path of Panjtan Pak.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:44 pm

Thank you maherali bhai and Agakhani bhai for your views....We all agree that you dont have to be an ismaili/shia/sunni to enter heaven....In short its not your religion thats gonna guarantee heaven or hell but your actions or intention

Btw agakhani bhai I dont believe in man made hadiths because often people find out that its fake but atleast all of us do agree on onething that you dont have to belong to special sect in order to recieve special treatment....all are equal in the eyes of god !

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:11 am

I dont believe in man made hadiths because often people find out that its fake

That is right not all Hadiths are true specially by Abu Hurraira and some rivayats told by Ummul Moamanin Bibi Ayesha some hadiths of these two ravis are not true and acceptable, but SMS once told that, "I know that there are many ayats which are not true and man made during the time of Muawiya, Yazid but if you find some thing good in those ayats then you should accept it even though they are not true". (not exact words of farmans)
I have read many Hadiths from Sahih Bukhari which are not true, not acceptable and does not tally with other Hadith books, so does Muslim and Ibne Maja, but the names of Haidya books I quoted above are very trustable hadith books by many and "Biradaren Sunnat Jamat" accept these 3 books as a reliable source of Prophet Mohammad's sayings and these 3 books are among "Sihah Sitta". ( six Hadith books collections together are called Sihah Sitta)
FYI:-1, I read one Hadith last night according the rivayatkar or ravi Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) told once that there will be only 12 imams after my death, the rivayatkar also gives the names of these 12 Imams which are basically the names of Twelvers Imams, but question arise here is according their faith their last (12th) Imam Mehdi has been disappeared more than 1000 years ago, so basically there is no Imam present at this time??!! Which is not possible Imam should be remain present on this Universe all the time, otherwise this universe destroyed.
FYI:- 2, In Saudi Arabia not long ago a separate sect has been just born, the name of this sect is "Ahle Hadith" or Wahabi sect!!! This sect only formed on Hadiths, they do not give more Importantane to Quran , they also do not give more importance to Prophet Mohammad (s.a.) but what a strange (!!) they give much importance to Prophet Mohammad (s.a.) saying not Prophet Mohammad (s.a.) himself!!!! ??

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:51 pm

1, I read one Hadith last night according the rivayatkar or ravi Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) told once that there will be only 12 imams after my death, the rivayatkar also gives the names of these 12 Imams which are basically the names of Twelvers Imams, but question arise here is according their faith their last (12th) Imam Mehdi has been disappeared more than 1000 years ago, so basically there is no Imam present at this time??!! Which is not possible Imam should be remain present on this Universe all the time, otherwise this universe destroyed.

According to you MAY BE !!...But i dont think your god and my god = allah[swt] rests only in one person ...In the same holy quran allah[swt] says where ever you turn you'll see face of allah[swt]....It does not necessarily have to be shia ismaili imam or shia ishna shari imams...because the religions in the past may have their own imams or guides so again this hadith is FAKE HADITH for allah[swt] has his very own way of building a relationship with a person [be it of any religion]

We ismailis say that because imamat is the heart and soul of our religion !!...Without imam there is no ismailism.....same for our shia brothers and sisters, In order to continue their faith they should have HOPE , with HOPE you gain TRUST and with TRUST you often stay away from things that are prohibited...got it ??

Bottom line, even if Ismaili Imam leaves this world the world would still survive for god is all merciful ....he doesnt need advocates, WE DO !!! infact he appointed one =H.Adam[as]

FYI:- 2, In Saudi Arabia not long ago a separate sect has been just born, the name of this sect is "Ahle Hadith" or Wahabi sect!!! This sect only formed on Hadiths, they do not give more Importantane to Quran , they also do not give more importance to Prophet Mohammad (s.a.) but what a strange (!!) they give much importance to Prophet Mohammad (s.a.) saying not Prophet Mohammad (s.a.) himself!!!! ??

Saudis are the biggest liars and Darpok kaum in this whole wide world...And I can say this with the present condition in the middle east...the problem with saudis is that they prefer trusting the western world more than their own brothers and sisters[shia/sunni etc etc] ....Not just wahabism brother all the religions [sub sects] of islam trace their presence from hadiths only !!!.... Its good to have respect for rasool[saw] and its a compulsion in religion as mentioned in quran so yes they are right on that but doing something which rasool[saw] used to do some 1400 years ago might not sit right in modern world and plus Do you expect saudis following word by word of holy quran ?? Naaahhhh !!!

But there are somethings that we might learn from our holy prophet[saw] that are still useful and helpful in modern times ie...being caring, showing compassion, helping the poor and needy etc etc....This is the only sure shot thing that would gaurantee us eternal peace , not only that it will also help elevate the soul

Hope I answered your question

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:42 pm

Bottom line, even if Ismaili Imam leaves this world the world would still survive for god is all merciful

It may be true for you Shiraz but not for me, but no biggy bro, cuz everyone has their own believes, my belief is according our faith, and as per my belief this whole Universe will destroyed in less than a second if Imam leaves this world or imam doesn't remain present on this earth.
I can bombard here with many Hadiths and Ayats to prove my point but I am at work and I don't have these info handy at this moments but let me give you just one small example :-
Once SMS told that," even if only two peoples remain on this earth for some reason than one will be Imam from these two peoples, that means Imam should be present all the time till Qayamat this is my belief.
By the twelvers also believes that Imam should be present all the time and they believe that their twelve Imam Mehdi is still alive in cave and he will come back soon. They also believe that without imam this world can not be survive.

Post by **Admin** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:59 pm

Mowla msaid often you can get the right answers by asking the right question. I think the right question should be can the world survice a second if God leaves this world to itself. The answer is obvious. And for those who knows the spiritual status of the Imam, the answer is also obvious.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:52 am

Admin,
Here we go, you are saying what I exactly wrote above but you described it with different approach, however answer remain same, I am outspoken person I don't like to hide anything when you know what is right and what is wrong.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:42 pm

I think the right question should be can the world survice a second if God leaves this world to itself.

The answer is NO , there I said it

....But can the world survive without a spiritual leader ?[ Be it of any sect or religion? ]...Sure !!!

Can the spiritual leader reach space and beyond ?? ....Answer No !!! ...Can god reach space and beyond ?? ....Answer Yes !!!

But I do respect your views and all others and I have no problem with that....To each his own !!

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:50 pm

Admin,
Here we go, you are saying what I exactly wrote above but you described it with different approach, however answer remain same, I am outspoken person I don't like to hide anything when you know what is right and what is wrong.

You're not only outspoken person agakhani bhai, aap buddhimaan hai, shakti man hai....balki mein toh kehta hoon aap purush hi nai.................................................................................MAHAPURUSH HAI

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:53 am

[/quote]Can the spiritual leader reach space and beyond ??

Not only spiritual leader can reach in space and beyond but you can do that too, only thing you need to be very advance in Bandagi.
There were and there are many yogis/rishis in this world they claims that they can go in space even in moon and sun and can come back, so it is not impossible. However to believe this kind claim or not is different story, if few yogis had claimed this then it is possible that they may lied but there are many yogis claiming this even now a days, so that we can't denied that we can not go in space during meditation.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:57 pm

Not only spiritual leader can reach in space and beyond but you can do that too, only thing you need to be very advance in Bandagi.

What is this advanced bandagi ??

There were and there are many yogis/rishis in this world they claims that they can go in space even in moon and sun and can come back, so it is not impossible.

Agakhani bhai , dint I tell you aap purush hi nai mahapurush hai....you always come up with out of this world answers just like @ above....Bhai aap yogis ko chodo [forget about the yogis] .....Human never landed on the moon either spiritually or physically.

Sun, Moon are not public parks where you go for the long walk

However to believe this kind claim or not is different story, if few yogis had claimed this then it is possible that they may lied but there are many yogis claiming this even now a days, so that we can't denied that we can not go in space during meditation.

All these so called yogis will jump in the well saying that leads to jannah would you do the same ???

Maherali bhai copy/pasted the ginan in his post go read it one more time and see what pir is talkin about hindus and their scriptures.

eji khat darshan to sunya pujaaye
satpanth dharamko maram na paaye.........aartee keeje.........7

O momins! the six schools of Hindu philosophy(or the six methods of salvation) are void of real worship since they have not attained the inner mysteries of the Right Path (i.e. the recognition of the True Guide).

Hope I answered your question

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:20 am

If you read my above post carefully then you may noticed that I already cleared that " believe this kind claims or not is different story",so if you don't like it just ignored it, but I will still stick with what I wrote above and that is true and correct, yes it is possible that you can travel in space and even you can go in moon, Mars and sun and come back without and problems this kind travelling called "Astral Travel" or "Out of Body Experience" there are many lucky peoples in this world who have achived this kind ability,, these peoples can travel any where in this world any city of of the world with their Astral body.
Travel in space (Astral Travel) or OBE is not new theory, it was there before and it is still here, there are many groups in USA and Canada and I am pretty sure that there are some in Houston area too, you need to visit these group one of days and listen what they are saying.

About Advance bandgi, this is the last but very hard to achieve stage in mediation, it is also called "samadhi" as per "Yog Sutra" wirtten by Maharshi Patanjali but if you reach that far then you can do lots of super natural things like ordinary human can not like walking on water, travel here and there, know your past and future e.t.c.

پہلے اپنے گربان مے دیکھئے جناب
"Pehle apne gireban me dekhiye janab!"
Now about out of this world answer?
my answer is"Pehle apne gireban me dekhiye janab!" ha!! ask your self why I am telling this? because you also gave some weird answers in your many posts related to Alien, UFO, Flying saucer e.t.c. and obviously your answers were not believable even in this advance in technology time so it seems they were out of this world answers to me which were not acceptable by me or by anyone else but nobody criticized you for that.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:35 am

agakhani wrote:
About Advance bandgi, this is the last but very hard to achieve stage in mediation, it is also called "samadhi" as per "Yog Sutra" wirtten by Maharshi Patanjali but if you reach that far then you can do lots of things like ordinary human can not like walking on water, travel here and there, know your past and future e.t.c.

Absolutely. There has been discussion on the possibilities of spiritual elevation at:

Doctrines --> can humans BE God?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... sc&start=0

In the Ginan Sakhi Mahapad keri vaat, Pir Sadardeen says:

sakhee arasparas naa kott joyaa neesaree re
evaa sapt dip nav khand ke joyaa parakhee re.....................10

O beloved ones, (In this state), I have observed having gone to that state, marble forts and palaces. I have also seen and verified for myself,
the seven islands and the nine continents (the entire world) in the experience.

Paramahansa Yoganada describes his experience of cosmic consciousness attained through spiritual elevation in his autobiography:

"An oceanic joy broke upon calm endless shores of my soul. The Spirit of God, I realized, is exhaustless Bliss; His body is countless tissues of light. A swelling glory within me began to envelop towns, continents, the earth, solar and stellar systems, tenuous nebulae, and floating universes. The entire cosmos, gently luminous, like a city seen afar at night, glimmered within the infinitude of my being. The sharply etched global outlines faded somewhat at the farthest edges; there I could see a mellow radiance, ever-undiminished. It was indescribably subtle; the planetary pictures were formed of a grosser light.

The divine dispersion of rays poured from an Eternal Source, blazing into galaxies, transfigured with ineffable auras. Again and again I saw the creative beams condense into constellations, then resolve into sheets of transparent flame. By rhythmic reversion, sextillion worlds passed into diaphanous luster; fire became firmament. "

http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap14.html