the present Dua has evolved as it is not recited today as it was when it first came to Jamats around 1956...
If you are from the generation that learned both asal dua and the present dua or learned it in 1956 and then followed the changes up to 1969, please share your knowledge with us.
Admin
Dua
dua' and prayers
To those who know.
Question: Does anybody know the reason why our prayers were changed to that which is recited currently from that which was prayed by the Prophet (PBUH)?
Question: Does anybody know if Parorie prayers are compulsory?
Question: Does anybody know why Hazer Imam doesn't lead prayers with his community?
Question: Does anybody know the reason why our prayers were changed to that which is recited currently from that which was prayed by the Prophet (PBUH)?
Question: Does anybody know if Parorie prayers are compulsory?
Question: Does anybody know why Hazer Imam doesn't lead prayers with his community?
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
Prayers are changed but not the religion. The prayer at the time of Prophet Muhammad[PBUH] was different from the prayer at the time of Hazrat Noah,Jesus ,Moses etc that not means that other prophets taught wrong religion.
Prayers changes from time to time. Namaz recited by muslims as taught by Prophet Muhammad[pbuh] is not the same prayer which all prophets taught. Every prophet taught prayers in different wayaccording to that time. Prophet Muhammad was from Arabia so Namaz was in Arabic.
For example there are not names of 49 Imams in namaz because at that time there were no Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah,Imam Ali Shah etc so their names were not included just like now we say name of Prophet Muhammad in prayer but the name of Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] was not recited in prayers of the people before Prophet Muhammad [pbuh]. This is one reason and there are many other reasons too but the most important is that it is farman of Imam to recite this Dua instead of namaz asa true ismaili we may not make arguments and follow whatever is said by Imam.
Prayers changes from time to time. Namaz recited by muslims as taught by Prophet Muhammad[pbuh] is not the same prayer which all prophets taught. Every prophet taught prayers in different wayaccording to that time. Prophet Muhammad was from Arabia so Namaz was in Arabic.
For example there are not names of 49 Imams in namaz because at that time there were no Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah,Imam Ali Shah etc so their names were not included just like now we say name of Prophet Muhammad in prayer but the name of Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] was not recited in prayers of the people before Prophet Muhammad [pbuh]. This is one reason and there are many other reasons too but the most important is that it is farman of Imam to recite this Dua instead of namaz asa true ismaili we may not make arguments and follow whatever is said by Imam.
I agree with Star_munir when he says that all the prophets brought in the same religion that is faith in Almighty Allah. Irrespective of the differences in language and prayers the faith or underlying ideology was the same.
But what I don't understand is that we ismailis are afterall muslims and when we recite and preserve Quran in Arabic then why not the namaz? Even Naad - e - Ali is also in Arabic. Similarly even the Ismaili community is well spread around the world but we offer the same dua and not native duas for different JKs ???? Not to forget even the Dua has its major portions in Arabic?
Likewise I would also want you to comment whether namaz is abstrained or is it non-obligatory because in the latter case it would be optional and not 'na-farmani' to offer namaz.
Also, what about when we offer a pilgrimage to Ka'aba (Umra or Hajj) do we say our namaz then because without namaz we cannot complete Umra or Hajj??
Please answer my queries and oblige,
Saadi
But what I don't understand is that we ismailis are afterall muslims and when we recite and preserve Quran in Arabic then why not the namaz? Even Naad - e - Ali is also in Arabic. Similarly even the Ismaili community is well spread around the world but we offer the same dua and not native duas for different JKs ???? Not to forget even the Dua has its major portions in Arabic?
Likewise I would also want you to comment whether namaz is abstrained or is it non-obligatory because in the latter case it would be optional and not 'na-farmani' to offer namaz.
Also, what about when we offer a pilgrimage to Ka'aba (Umra or Hajj) do we say our namaz then because without namaz we cannot complete Umra or Hajj??
Please answer my queries and oblige,
Saadi
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
I have told that prayers changes from time to time. Pir Sadar din made prayer in Gujrati as ismailis of that time do not know arabic at all and for a long period of time ismailis recited prayer in Gujrati thats not important that prayers must be in Arabic only. If Imam will tell us to say Dua in Sanskrit than we have to do that also because God knows all language not onlyArabic and present Dua is in Arabic .Ismailis are living in different countries and all of them not know Gujrati andthere is not any language which is spoken by each and every ismaili but Arabic is language of Quran and therefore imporatant language and our Dua is in Arabic. Our Salat is not namaz but Dua because namaz was suitable for that period of time.
We recite Quran in Arabic as if read translations there is not one translation but many. Arabic is such a language that there are many meanings of the same word. And just like if you read ramayan in pure urdu instead of hindi you will not get the same thing same word etc so it is Good if you know arabic and read Quran but if not Than by just readin in Arabic you can get sawab but not hidayat from it.
Reciting namaz is not sin. There is not ant thing wrong in it It was prayer at the time of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] but what you will call me if I recite old gujrati dua instead of the present Arabic Dua. Than namaz is even more old than gujrati dua.
Regarding Hajj you can recite namaz. We also recite namaz in eid.
If you see face of Imam [Deedar] it is Hajj.
We recite Quran in Arabic as if read translations there is not one translation but many. Arabic is such a language that there are many meanings of the same word. And just like if you read ramayan in pure urdu instead of hindi you will not get the same thing same word etc so it is Good if you know arabic and read Quran but if not Than by just readin in Arabic you can get sawab but not hidayat from it.
Reciting namaz is not sin. There is not ant thing wrong in it It was prayer at the time of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] but what you will call me if I recite old gujrati dua instead of the present Arabic Dua. Than namaz is even more old than gujrati dua.
Regarding Hajj you can recite namaz. We also recite namaz in eid.
If you see face of Imam [Deedar] it is Hajj.
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
Dua
There are many reasons that namaz was for only that period of time for example one reason I mentioned that in namaz there are no names of Imams. Similarly if you have seen any one reciting namaz they not recite sitting they stand up than sit down than stand again .......
People of nowadays are not so much active and healthy and in Jamat Khana there are boys,girls,men,women,children,old men etc old men even sit in chairs who have pain in legs so it is not possible for every one to perform the namaz properly.
People of nowadays are not so much active and healthy and in Jamat Khana there are boys,girls,men,women,children,old men etc old men even sit in chairs who have pain in legs so it is not possible for every one to perform the namaz properly.
Last edited by star_munir on Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
namaz/salat
Ya Ali Madat Brothers and Sisters.
Firstly, Nasir-i Khusraw explains that the three positions in the salat or namaz have importance meaning. He explained that the standing, bowing(ruku) and prostrating(sijdah) all have Baten as well as Zahir importance. Since we don't stand in the dua or bow I think this means that we are missing something out of the faith both Baten/Zahir that has been prescribed to us. This was out of an article on the Ismaili Insistute of Studies (www.iis.ac.uk).
I don't believe the religion that was can't be the religion that is. Religion doesn't expire just as the message to the Prophet (PBUH) from Allah(Most High, Most Gracious) can't expire. The Prophet(PBUH) taught Imam Ali(PBUH) how to pray and so all the Imam's(PBUT) prayed. It's not something so hard to do. So why should it be changed? And as it has great meaning and importance as part of the religion.
I believe that with every small change here and there and you end up with something totally new. Nasir-i Khusraw said in his Safarnama that he one met a muslim people called the Qarmatis who claimed that they didn't have to practise the Zahir part of Islam. He considered them just as bad as those didn't have the Baten understanding of Islam and praticed Islam mechanically.
Even if people are less active today than in the time of the Prophet, does it mean that they can't pray salat/namaz - how do other muslim communities do it? Okay, if you are unable perform it because of sickness or other physical unablily to perform the actions there are provisions for those people but not for healthy people who can do it. I mean we're praying to Allah! Some people in Khane don't even prostrate to Allah they make actions with their hands, from the floor to their faces, to make sijdah - is that also because people are less active today?
Does the fact that Ismailis don't understand Arabic as in the time of the Prophet and earlier Imams mean that they can't make Dua or Salat in Arabic? Why not if one can read and learn the translations and understand their meanings? Even for an Arab, if he or she knows the Zahir meanings of the words but not the Baten meaning then his/her salat are void. This is because our Dua as well as the Salat are derived from the Qur'an. And since there must be both Zahir and Baten understanding of the Qur'an then doesn't it mean that one should have Zahir+Baten meaning of both what they do and say in their prayers.
Arabic can't be as complex and esoteric as people make it out - one word meaning so many things that the translation of one sura is not even worth the ink used (Allah-forbid). If that were the case then how could anyone have spread the word of Allah to non-Arabs without giving it a completely random and probably false meaning?
If there is anything contraversial it is not the meaning of each word but the meaning of several words that make up a passage - that is the collective meaning of the words. And that kind of translation is more relevant to the Zahir/Baten philosophical dichotomy than it is to liguistics.
Islam advocates learning and gaining knowledge and understanding. Learning Arabic could be an important key to gaining some of that knowledge pertaining to our religion that is still locked up in Arabic/Farsi writings from times closer to the Prophet's (PBUH).
Peace be with you
Firstly, Nasir-i Khusraw explains that the three positions in the salat or namaz have importance meaning. He explained that the standing, bowing(ruku) and prostrating(sijdah) all have Baten as well as Zahir importance. Since we don't stand in the dua or bow I think this means that we are missing something out of the faith both Baten/Zahir that has been prescribed to us. This was out of an article on the Ismaili Insistute of Studies (www.iis.ac.uk).
I don't believe the religion that was can't be the religion that is. Religion doesn't expire just as the message to the Prophet (PBUH) from Allah(Most High, Most Gracious) can't expire. The Prophet(PBUH) taught Imam Ali(PBUH) how to pray and so all the Imam's(PBUT) prayed. It's not something so hard to do. So why should it be changed? And as it has great meaning and importance as part of the religion.
I believe that with every small change here and there and you end up with something totally new. Nasir-i Khusraw said in his Safarnama that he one met a muslim people called the Qarmatis who claimed that they didn't have to practise the Zahir part of Islam. He considered them just as bad as those didn't have the Baten understanding of Islam and praticed Islam mechanically.
Even if people are less active today than in the time of the Prophet, does it mean that they can't pray salat/namaz - how do other muslim communities do it? Okay, if you are unable perform it because of sickness or other physical unablily to perform the actions there are provisions for those people but not for healthy people who can do it. I mean we're praying to Allah! Some people in Khane don't even prostrate to Allah they make actions with their hands, from the floor to their faces, to make sijdah - is that also because people are less active today?
Does the fact that Ismailis don't understand Arabic as in the time of the Prophet and earlier Imams mean that they can't make Dua or Salat in Arabic? Why not if one can read and learn the translations and understand their meanings? Even for an Arab, if he or she knows the Zahir meanings of the words but not the Baten meaning then his/her salat are void. This is because our Dua as well as the Salat are derived from the Qur'an. And since there must be both Zahir and Baten understanding of the Qur'an then doesn't it mean that one should have Zahir+Baten meaning of both what they do and say in their prayers.
Arabic can't be as complex and esoteric as people make it out - one word meaning so many things that the translation of one sura is not even worth the ink used (Allah-forbid). If that were the case then how could anyone have spread the word of Allah to non-Arabs without giving it a completely random and probably false meaning?
If there is anything contraversial it is not the meaning of each word but the meaning of several words that make up a passage - that is the collective meaning of the words. And that kind of translation is more relevant to the Zahir/Baten philosophical dichotomy than it is to liguistics.
Islam advocates learning and gaining knowledge and understanding. Learning Arabic could be an important key to gaining some of that knowledge pertaining to our religion that is still locked up in Arabic/Farsi writings from times closer to the Prophet's (PBUH).
Peace be with you
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
YOU SAID THAT
Firstly, Nasir-i Khusraw explains that the three positions in the salat or namaz have importance meaning. He explained that the standing, bowing(ruku) and prostrating(sijdah) all have Baten as well as Zahir importance. Since we don't stand in the dua or bow I think this means that we are missing something out of the faith both Baten/Zahir that has been prescribed to us. This was out of an article on the Ismaili Insistute of Studies (www.iis.ac.uk).
FIRST OF ALL THERE IS PROSTRATING [SIJDAH] IN DUA.
NASIR KHUSRAW TOLD THE IMPORTANCE OF ARABIC NAMAZ AS IT WAS DUA AT THAT TIME SO THERE WAS IMPORTANCE OF IT AT THAT TIME BUT NOT NOW.
FOR EXAMPLE AS A MUSLIM WE BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST AS PROPHET OF GOD SO IF I BELIEVE HIM TRUE PROPHET SHOULD I START RECITING THOSE PRAYERS WHICH WERE TAUGHT BY HIM??? THOSE PRAYERS ALSO HAD IMPORTANCE.HAZRAT MUHAMMAD [PBUH] SAID NAMAZ BUT THE PRAYER AT THE TIME OF JESUS CHRIST WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE PRAYER AS ORDERED BY PROPHET MUHAMMAD[PBUH] THAT NOT MEANS THAT THE RELIGION OF HAZRAT MUHAMMAD WAS DIFFERENT FROM JESUS CHRIST
ACCORDINGTO YOU
don't believe the religion that was can't be the religion that is. Religion doesn't expire just as the message to the Prophet (PBUH) from Allah(Most High, Most Gracious) can't expire
WHEN RELIGION WAS CHANGED? YOU THINK THAT BY RECITING DUA RELIGION IS CHANGED THAN DO YOU BELIEVE THAT EVERY PROPHET TAUGHT SAME ARABIC NAMAZ WHICH WAS TAUGHT BY PROPHET MUHAMMAD [PBUH] ?DEFINATELY NOT SO THIS NOT MEANS THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS CHANGED OR EVERY PROPHET TAUGHT DIFFERENT RELIGION.
IT SEEMS THAT ACCORDING TO YOU ISMAILISM IS NOT PURE ISLAM BUT ISMAILISM IS PURE ISLAM.
CHANTA,SUKREET,MEHMANI,NANDI,NIAZ,JURA ETC ALL WERE AT THE TIME OF PROPHET MUHAMMD [PBUH] BUT NOW ONLY ISMAILIS HAVE THIS CEREMONIES.
WE PRAY DUA THREE TIMES AND IT IS IN QURAN TO RECITE PRAYERS 3 TIMES.
YOU WROTE THAT
The Prophet(PBUH) taught Imam Ali(PBUH) how to pray and so all the Imam's(PBUT) prayed. It's not something so hard to do. So why should it be changed? And as it has great meaning and importance as part of the religion.
AS A ISMAILI YOU MUST KNOW THAT IMAM NOT NEEDS TO PRAY NAMAZ OR DUA BUT ITS JUST FOR TEACHING PEOPLE.
Even if people are less active today than in the time of the Prophet, does it mean that they can't pray salat/namaz - how do other muslim communities do it?
ONLY FEW NON ISMAILIS ARE THERE WHO RECITE 5 TIME NAMAZ OTHERS DO NOT . YOU CAN GO TO MASJID MAINLY WOMEN AND GIRLS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER AND PRAY IN MASJID. THERE ARE NOT MUCH PEOPLE SPECIALLY AT THE MORNING TIME . YOU CAN SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE COME DAILY IN JAMAT KHANA AND THAN GO TO MOSQUE YOU WILL SEE THAT MANY FEW PEOPLE CAME THARE.
Firstly, Nasir-i Khusraw explains that the three positions in the salat or namaz have importance meaning. He explained that the standing, bowing(ruku) and prostrating(sijdah) all have Baten as well as Zahir importance. Since we don't stand in the dua or bow I think this means that we are missing something out of the faith both Baten/Zahir that has been prescribed to us. This was out of an article on the Ismaili Insistute of Studies (www.iis.ac.uk).
FIRST OF ALL THERE IS PROSTRATING [SIJDAH] IN DUA.
NASIR KHUSRAW TOLD THE IMPORTANCE OF ARABIC NAMAZ AS IT WAS DUA AT THAT TIME SO THERE WAS IMPORTANCE OF IT AT THAT TIME BUT NOT NOW.
FOR EXAMPLE AS A MUSLIM WE BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST AS PROPHET OF GOD SO IF I BELIEVE HIM TRUE PROPHET SHOULD I START RECITING THOSE PRAYERS WHICH WERE TAUGHT BY HIM??? THOSE PRAYERS ALSO HAD IMPORTANCE.HAZRAT MUHAMMAD [PBUH] SAID NAMAZ BUT THE PRAYER AT THE TIME OF JESUS CHRIST WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE PRAYER AS ORDERED BY PROPHET MUHAMMAD[PBUH] THAT NOT MEANS THAT THE RELIGION OF HAZRAT MUHAMMAD WAS DIFFERENT FROM JESUS CHRIST
ACCORDINGTO YOU
don't believe the religion that was can't be the religion that is. Religion doesn't expire just as the message to the Prophet (PBUH) from Allah(Most High, Most Gracious) can't expire
WHEN RELIGION WAS CHANGED? YOU THINK THAT BY RECITING DUA RELIGION IS CHANGED THAN DO YOU BELIEVE THAT EVERY PROPHET TAUGHT SAME ARABIC NAMAZ WHICH WAS TAUGHT BY PROPHET MUHAMMAD [PBUH] ?DEFINATELY NOT SO THIS NOT MEANS THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS CHANGED OR EVERY PROPHET TAUGHT DIFFERENT RELIGION.
IT SEEMS THAT ACCORDING TO YOU ISMAILISM IS NOT PURE ISLAM BUT ISMAILISM IS PURE ISLAM.
CHANTA,SUKREET,MEHMANI,NANDI,NIAZ,JURA ETC ALL WERE AT THE TIME OF PROPHET MUHAMMD [PBUH] BUT NOW ONLY ISMAILIS HAVE THIS CEREMONIES.
WE PRAY DUA THREE TIMES AND IT IS IN QURAN TO RECITE PRAYERS 3 TIMES.
YOU WROTE THAT
The Prophet(PBUH) taught Imam Ali(PBUH) how to pray and so all the Imam's(PBUT) prayed. It's not something so hard to do. So why should it be changed? And as it has great meaning and importance as part of the religion.
AS A ISMAILI YOU MUST KNOW THAT IMAM NOT NEEDS TO PRAY NAMAZ OR DUA BUT ITS JUST FOR TEACHING PEOPLE.
Even if people are less active today than in the time of the Prophet, does it mean that they can't pray salat/namaz - how do other muslim communities do it?
ONLY FEW NON ISMAILIS ARE THERE WHO RECITE 5 TIME NAMAZ OTHERS DO NOT . YOU CAN GO TO MASJID MAINLY WOMEN AND GIRLS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER AND PRAY IN MASJID. THERE ARE NOT MUCH PEOPLE SPECIALLY AT THE MORNING TIME . YOU CAN SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE COME DAILY IN JAMAT KHANA AND THAN GO TO MOSQUE YOU WILL SEE THAT MANY FEW PEOPLE CAME THARE.
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
ACCORDING TO YOU
The Prophet(PBUH) taught Imam Ali(PBUH) how to pray and so all the Imam's(PBUT) prayed.
IMAM DO NOT PRAY BECAUSE OF THE ORDER OF PROPHET. THERE IS NO NEED OF OFFERING SALAT TO IMAM AND PROPHET MUHAMMAD [PBUH] THEY RECITE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN LEAR FROM THEM.
AN EXAMPLE FROM HINDUISM. HINDUS BELIEVE RAAM AS GOD BUT IT IS IN RAMAYAN THAT RAAM RESPECTED SADHUS WHY???HE WANTED TO GIVE LESSON TO RESPECT THE SAINTS.
YOU SAID THAT
Arabic can't be as complex and esoteric as people make it out - one word meaning
YOU WILL SEE DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS. QURAN IS SAME IN ARABIC BUT SHIAS CLAIM THAT THERE ARE MANY VERSES ABOUT IMAMT AND ALI IN QURAN BUT SUNNIS CLAIMS THAT THERE IS NOT EVEN A SINGLE VERSE WITH THE CONCEPT OF IMAMAT OR ALI.
YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND PROPERLY QURAN WITHOUT FARMANS.THERE IS SUMMARY OF QURAN IN GINAN.
YOU SAID THAT
Learning Arabic could be an important key to gaining some of that knowledge pertaining to our religion that is still locked up in Arabic/Farsi writings from times closer to the Prophet's (PBUH).
THERE IS NOT SUCH A THING.IF YOU KNOW GINANS THAN DEFINATELY NOT ANY SUCH THING.
The Prophet(PBUH) taught Imam Ali(PBUH) how to pray and so all the Imam's(PBUT) prayed.
IMAM DO NOT PRAY BECAUSE OF THE ORDER OF PROPHET. THERE IS NO NEED OF OFFERING SALAT TO IMAM AND PROPHET MUHAMMAD [PBUH] THEY RECITE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN LEAR FROM THEM.
AN EXAMPLE FROM HINDUISM. HINDUS BELIEVE RAAM AS GOD BUT IT IS IN RAMAYAN THAT RAAM RESPECTED SADHUS WHY???HE WANTED TO GIVE LESSON TO RESPECT THE SAINTS.
YOU SAID THAT
Arabic can't be as complex and esoteric as people make it out - one word meaning
YOU WILL SEE DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS. QURAN IS SAME IN ARABIC BUT SHIAS CLAIM THAT THERE ARE MANY VERSES ABOUT IMAMT AND ALI IN QURAN BUT SUNNIS CLAIMS THAT THERE IS NOT EVEN A SINGLE VERSE WITH THE CONCEPT OF IMAMAT OR ALI.
YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND PROPERLY QURAN WITHOUT FARMANS.THERE IS SUMMARY OF QURAN IN GINAN.
YOU SAID THAT
Learning Arabic could be an important key to gaining some of that knowledge pertaining to our religion that is still locked up in Arabic/Farsi writings from times closer to the Prophet's (PBUH).
THERE IS NOT SUCH A THING.IF YOU KNOW GINANS THAN DEFINATELY NOT ANY SUCH THING.
dua'/salat/Ismaili philosophy
In the Ismaili dua sijdah is made - although there is a trend for some to use their hands to touch the ground and then their faces as a replacement for it. Okay, fine, Understood. but where's Ruku'?
Why is Namaz given in Eid if it is not the way of today as well?
Mohammed(pbuh) was the last messenger to bring the faith and so the way he brought is followed to this day. Isa'(pbuh) way was brought before that so his way was followed.
Muhammed (pbuh) and Isa'(pbuh) and all the Imams (peace be upon them all) are not at the same level as Allah(most high). All of them prayed for Allah's mercy and peace and blessings and to this day we pray that Allah's mercy and peace and blessings be on them in dua, salat or whatever. Therefore it must be that they relied and rely and prayed and pray to Allah (most high) and cannot be exempt from prayer. Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) was closer to the Universal Intellect then we are - that's why he received the message. The Imams are closer too but not as close as Muhammed. But they are all still human (they exist in this world). The only beings exempt from prayer in this world are animals and plants - they have no intellect.
If the Hindus believe that Ram was God then it's out of the Islamic league. Allah(Most High, Most Gracious) cannot have physical attributes thus Ram cannot be God. Just in the same way Isa cannot be God as the Christians believe. So Ram may have been setting an example to respect the saints but he surely wasn't doing it as God.
Farmans are a right guidance by the Imam of the time to help us to interpret the meaning of the Qur'an. Understood. But it's not a replacement for reading the actual Qur'an ourselves. The Imam is the teacher the Qur'an is the textbook. Sometimes we have to go back to the textbook to understand what the teacher is saying too.
Ginans are other peoples interpretations of the Qur'an I believe. They can't replace the Qur'an (Allah's(Most high, Most gracious) words or the Farmans of the Imams(peace be upon them) or the teachings of the the Prophets(peace be upon them) which are all given on right authority and wisdom.
I think that Ismailism has had a lot of contact with Hinduism in the past and that some of the interpretations of the Qur'an in that period came from a Hinduistic approach. In that light some of those interpretations are probably not going to agree with Islam. Indeed some of the practices of Ismailism have resemblance to Hinduism. Remember the pictures of Hazir Imam at the backs of Khane where people would ask for his blessings and eat rose petals? Well that's not too far off from the pictures and statues of different gods that hindus pray to for their blessings. It's no wonder that that practice was forbidden from Khanes.
In that respect I believe that there is much more to learn about Ismailism than what we are presented with in terms of Ginans. And there's plenty out there for us to learn and understand.
About Masjids:
1. It is a misconception that Women and children are not allowed into masjids.
2. Attendance of the compulsory Juma' prayers and Khutba on Fridays is phenomenal there is often the need to squeeze in.
3. My experience with other Muslims is that any chance to pray in collective is taken since the Prophet said this was better.
Why is Namaz given in Eid if it is not the way of today as well?
Mohammed(pbuh) was the last messenger to bring the faith and so the way he brought is followed to this day. Isa'(pbuh) way was brought before that so his way was followed.
Muhammed (pbuh) and Isa'(pbuh) and all the Imams (peace be upon them all) are not at the same level as Allah(most high). All of them prayed for Allah's mercy and peace and blessings and to this day we pray that Allah's mercy and peace and blessings be on them in dua, salat or whatever. Therefore it must be that they relied and rely and prayed and pray to Allah (most high) and cannot be exempt from prayer. Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) was closer to the Universal Intellect then we are - that's why he received the message. The Imams are closer too but not as close as Muhammed. But they are all still human (they exist in this world). The only beings exempt from prayer in this world are animals and plants - they have no intellect.
If the Hindus believe that Ram was God then it's out of the Islamic league. Allah(Most High, Most Gracious) cannot have physical attributes thus Ram cannot be God. Just in the same way Isa cannot be God as the Christians believe. So Ram may have been setting an example to respect the saints but he surely wasn't doing it as God.
Farmans are a right guidance by the Imam of the time to help us to interpret the meaning of the Qur'an. Understood. But it's not a replacement for reading the actual Qur'an ourselves. The Imam is the teacher the Qur'an is the textbook. Sometimes we have to go back to the textbook to understand what the teacher is saying too.
Ginans are other peoples interpretations of the Qur'an I believe. They can't replace the Qur'an (Allah's(Most high, Most gracious) words or the Farmans of the Imams(peace be upon them) or the teachings of the the Prophets(peace be upon them) which are all given on right authority and wisdom.
I think that Ismailism has had a lot of contact with Hinduism in the past and that some of the interpretations of the Qur'an in that period came from a Hinduistic approach. In that light some of those interpretations are probably not going to agree with Islam. Indeed some of the practices of Ismailism have resemblance to Hinduism. Remember the pictures of Hazir Imam at the backs of Khane where people would ask for his blessings and eat rose petals? Well that's not too far off from the pictures and statues of different gods that hindus pray to for their blessings. It's no wonder that that practice was forbidden from Khanes.
In that respect I believe that there is much more to learn about Ismailism than what we are presented with in terms of Ginans. And there's plenty out there for us to learn and understand.
About Masjids:
1. It is a misconception that Women and children are not allowed into masjids.
2. Attendance of the compulsory Juma' prayers and Khutba on Fridays is phenomenal there is often the need to squeeze in.
3. My experience with other Muslims is that any chance to pray in collective is taken since the Prophet said this was better.
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
YOU WROTE THAT
In the Ismaili dua sijdah is made - although there is a trend for some to use their hands to touch the ground and then their faces as a replacement for it. Okay, fine, Understood. but where's Ruku'?
IT IS IN GINAN THAT
Aashaajee Maseet maanhe jai baang-j deshe
unke deel maanhe esaa jee
rasul vinaa jo neemaaz gujaare
te velaa hoyshe andheraa................Haree anant..178
Oh Lord Those who go to the mosque and invoke the name of God
that's how they feel in their hearts
If one performs the nimaaz without the
Messenger(Murshid)
he/she will have wasted his time in darkness
Haree You are eternal...
CAN YOU TELL ME WHY RUKKU IS SO MUCH IMPORTANT THAT WITHOUT RUKKU YOU CAN NOT REMEMBER GOD OR PERFORM YOUR PRAYERS?
fOR PRAYING IS NOT CONCERNED WITH STANDING UP AND SITTING DOWN BUT WITH HEART AND TRUE LOVE FOR GOD.
Why is Namaz given in Eid if it is not the way of today as well?
EID NAMAZ IS NOT OBLIGATORY AS I NOT EVER READ FARMAN OR GINAN REGARDING IT.
In the Ismaili dua sijdah is made - although there is a trend for some to use their hands to touch the ground and then their faces as a replacement for it. Okay, fine, Understood. but where's Ruku'?
IT IS IN GINAN THAT
Aashaajee Maseet maanhe jai baang-j deshe
unke deel maanhe esaa jee
rasul vinaa jo neemaaz gujaare
te velaa hoyshe andheraa................Haree anant..178
Oh Lord Those who go to the mosque and invoke the name of God
that's how they feel in their hearts
If one performs the nimaaz without the
Messenger(Murshid)
he/she will have wasted his time in darkness
Haree You are eternal...
CAN YOU TELL ME WHY RUKKU IS SO MUCH IMPORTANT THAT WITHOUT RUKKU YOU CAN NOT REMEMBER GOD OR PERFORM YOUR PRAYERS?
fOR PRAYING IS NOT CONCERNED WITH STANDING UP AND SITTING DOWN BUT WITH HEART AND TRUE LOVE FOR GOD.
Why is Namaz given in Eid if it is not the way of today as well?
EID NAMAZ IS NOT OBLIGATORY AS I NOT EVER READ FARMAN OR GINAN REGARDING IT.
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
KKICKER WROTE THAT
Muhammed (pbuh) and Isa'(pbuh) and all the Imams (peace be upon them all) are not at the same level as Allah(most high). All of them prayed for Allah's mercy and peace and blessings and to this day we pray that Allah's mercy and peace and blessings be on them in dua, salat or whatever
YOU ARE RIGHT THAT IMAM ALSO RECITE NAMAZ. IN PAKISTAN HAZIR IMAM RECITED NAMAZ. IMAM SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH ALSO PRAYED BUT NOT WORSHIP GOD BUT PRAY AS GIVING BLESSINGS TO ISMAILIS.
IMAM SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH SAID THAT
I AM A DIRECT DESCENDANT OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD AND A LARGE NUMBER OF MOHAMMADAN FAITH TODAY NUMBERING ABOUT 2000000 ACKNOWLEDGED ME AS THEIR SPIRITUAL HEAD .THEY PAY ME TRIBUTE AND WORSHIP ME.....
IMAM ACTUALLY NOT NEEDS TO PRAY AS HE IS NOOR OF GOD HE PRAY FOR GIVING BLESSINGS NOW IT IS HIS WILL WHETHER HE GO TO MOSQUE OR TEMPLE OR CHURCH.
ONCE IMAM SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH WENT TO MOSQUE ON FRIDAY ALONG WITH SIR ABDUL HAMEED,SIR ABDUL QADEER, MR.LATEEFI AND MR AHSAAN-UL-HAQ TO RECITE NAMAZ.THE MOLVISAIDSPEECH ON IMAM SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH AND THAT NON ISMAILI MOLVI INFRONT OF ALL NON ISMAILI MUSLIMS SAID IN HIS SPEECH IN MASJID THAT
A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WORSHIP HIM AS KRISHAN AVTAAR.
THIS IS NOT A JOKE OR FALSE STORY BUT HISTORY. IT IS IN BOOK NOORUM MUBIN. THERE IS NO NEED FOR IMAM TO PRAY. YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THE TRUE CONCEPT OF IMAMAT IN LIGHT OF QURAN HADITH FARMAN AND GINAN THAN YOU WILL GET ANSWER OF THIS AND MANY OTHER QUESTIONS LIKE THIS.
WHEN WE SAY IMAM THAN THERE ARE TWO THINGS ONE PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY AND ANOTHER NOOR DIVINE LIGHT OF GOD.
WE SENT SALWAT ON PHYSICAL BODY NOT NOOR
IMAM AS HUMAN WAS BORN ON 13 DECEMBER BUT NOOR OF IMAM IS ALWAYS AND WILL ALWAYS PRESENT IN THIS WORLD.
ACCORDING TO YOU
Therefore it must be that they relied and rely and prayed and pray to Allah (most high) and cannot be exempt from prayer. Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) was closer to the Universal Intellect then we are - that's why he received the message. The Imams are closer too but not as close as Muhammed. But they are all still human (they exist in this world). The only beings exempt from prayer in this world are animals and plants - they have no intellect.
PROPHET MUHAMMAD AND IMAM ALI ARE ONE NOOR OF GOD. IT IS OLD DUA IT IS IN HADITH AND IT IS ISMAILISM YOU ARE TELLING CONCEPT OF ISNASHARI NOT OF ISMAILISM ALL IMAM HAVE SAME NOOR IT IS IN FARMAN. CAN ONE NOOR BE GREATER THAN ANOTHER. I KNOW THERE ARE MANY FALSE HADITHS WHICH YOU CAN WRITE BUT I DO NOT BELIVE IN THOSE HADITHS
HAZRAT MUHAMMAD [PBUH] SAID THAT I AND ALI ARE FROM SAME DIVINE LIGHT.
HE SAID AFTER WAR OF KHYBER THAT O ALI YOU ARE FROM ME AND I AM FROM YOU ... YOUR FLESHIS MY FLESH YOUR BLOOD IS MY BLOOD
THERE ARE MANY HADITH LIKE THIS. IF YOU WILL READ THEM AND THINK OVER IT YOU WILL KNOW THAT CONCEPT OF IMAMAT ACCORDING TO ISMAILISM IS TRUE CONCEPT.
YOU SAID
If the Hindus believe that Ram was God then it's out of the Islamic league. Allah(Most High, Most Gracious) cannot have physical attributes thus Ram cannot be God. Just in the same way Isa cannot be God as the Christians believe
REGARDING JESUS CHRIST, HE WAS NOT GOD ACCORDING TO QURAN,FARMAN,GINANS AND HADITHS BUT GOD HAS PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES.
IT IS IN QURAN HAZRAT MUSA SAW LIGHT OF ALLAH IN TRESS.
HAZRAT MUSA GAVE SIJDA TO TRESS SAID YOU ARE MY GOD. HAZTRAT MUSA DID NOT BELIEVE TREE AS GOD BUT HE DO SIJDA TO ALLAH.
IF STILL YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THAN IT IS MY ADVISE FOR YOU TO READ THE BOOK RISLA DARHAQIQAT DEEN WRITTEN BY PIR SHAHBUDDIN SHAH. THIS BOOK IS IN PERSIAN BUT YOU CAN GET ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS AS IT IS TRANSLATED IN MANY LANGUAGES
IN THIS BOOK HE HAS PROVED ABOUT PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES IN LIGHT OF QURAN AND HADITHS SO READ IT .
YOU WROTE THAT
Farmans are a right guidance by the Imam of the time to help us to interpret the meaning of the Qur'an. Understood. But it's not a replacement for reading the actual Qur'an ourselves. The Imam is the teacher the Qur'an is the textbook. Sometimes we have to go back to the textbook to understand what the teacher is saying too.
I AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS. IT IS ALSO IN FARMAN TO READ QURAN BUT WITHOUT UNDERSTADING TRUE CONCEPT OF IMAM AND ALLAH AND PROPHET ANY ONE CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THE QURAN.
ACCORDING TO YOU
Ginans are other peoples interpretations of the Qur'an I believe. They can't replace the Qur'an (Allah's(Most high, Most gracious) words or the Farmans of the Imams(peace be upon them) or the teachings of the the Prophets(peace be upon them) which are all given on right authority and wisdom.
I think that Ismailism has had a lot of contact with Hinduism in the past and that some of the interpretations of the Qur'an in that period came from a Hinduistic approach. In that light some of those interpretations are probably not going to agree with Islam. Indeed some of the practices of Ismailism have resemblance to Hinduism. Remember the pictures of Hazir Imam at the backs of Khane where people would ask for his blessings and eat rose petals? Well that's not too far off from the pictures and statues of different gods that hindus pray to for their blessings. It's no wonder that that practice was forbidden from Khanes.
THERE IS MUCH IMPORTANCE OF GINAN IN OUR RELIGION. THE TRUE TEACHINGS OF PROPHET AND GOD IS IN GINAN. IT YOU WILL READ FARMANS OF HAZIR IMAM AND SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH THAN YOU WILL KNOW WHAT IS IMPORTANCE OF GINAN IN OUR RELIGION.
KHOJAS WERE CONVERTED TO MUSLIMS FROM HINDUS BY PIR BUT ISMAILISM IS DIFFERENT FROM HINDUISM.
THERE IS NOT STATUE OF IMAM TO WHICH WE WORSHIP THERE IS PHOTO OF IMAM BECAUE WE LOVE HIM IN HIS BODY IS DIVINE LIGHT.
IF WE SEE HIS PHOTO THIS IS IBADAT ACCORDING TO HADITH WHCH IS IF YOU SEE FACE OF ALI IT IS WORSHIP.
THESE ARE THE THINGS YOU WILL FIND IN BOOKS OF NON ISMAILIS.
IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO PRAY INFRONT OF HIS PHOTO. HE IS EVERY WHERE.
ABOUT MASJID YOU SAID THAT
About Masjids:
1. It is a misconception that Women and children are not allowed into masjids.
IN COUNTRIESLIKE TURKEY IT IS ALLOWED BUT IN MOST OF THE MOSQUE WOMEN ARE NOT ALLOWED AS MANY MUSLIMS SAYS THAT WOMEN MUST WEAR VEIL AND ALWAYS REMAIN IN HOME. EXTREMIST MUSLIMS CONSIDER WOMEN AS DELICATE AND ACCORDING TO THEM STATUS OF WOMEN IS LOWER THAN MEN ACCORDING TO ISLAM THATS WHY WE NEED IMAM TO GUIDE WHATS RIGHT AND WHATS WRONG. WE ARE LUCKY THAT WE ARE ISMAILIS. TELL ME THE NAME OF ANY SECT WHO HAS SPIRITUAL HEAD LIKE THAT OF OURS. NO ONE IS PRESENT.
SO WE MUST NOT MAKE ARGUMENTS THAT WHY THIS AND WHY THAT.
YOU SAID
My experience with other Muslims is that any chance to pray in collective is taken since the Prophet said this was better.
YOUR FREINDS ARE NON ISMAILIS BUT DONT BELIEVE THEM WHEN THEY SAY SOME THING WHICH IS NOT IN ISMAILISM BUT IS IN THEIR RELIGION.
Muhammed (pbuh) and Isa'(pbuh) and all the Imams (peace be upon them all) are not at the same level as Allah(most high). All of them prayed for Allah's mercy and peace and blessings and to this day we pray that Allah's mercy and peace and blessings be on them in dua, salat or whatever
YOU ARE RIGHT THAT IMAM ALSO RECITE NAMAZ. IN PAKISTAN HAZIR IMAM RECITED NAMAZ. IMAM SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH ALSO PRAYED BUT NOT WORSHIP GOD BUT PRAY AS GIVING BLESSINGS TO ISMAILIS.
IMAM SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH SAID THAT
I AM A DIRECT DESCENDANT OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD AND A LARGE NUMBER OF MOHAMMADAN FAITH TODAY NUMBERING ABOUT 2000000 ACKNOWLEDGED ME AS THEIR SPIRITUAL HEAD .THEY PAY ME TRIBUTE AND WORSHIP ME.....
IMAM ACTUALLY NOT NEEDS TO PRAY AS HE IS NOOR OF GOD HE PRAY FOR GIVING BLESSINGS NOW IT IS HIS WILL WHETHER HE GO TO MOSQUE OR TEMPLE OR CHURCH.
ONCE IMAM SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH WENT TO MOSQUE ON FRIDAY ALONG WITH SIR ABDUL HAMEED,SIR ABDUL QADEER, MR.LATEEFI AND MR AHSAAN-UL-HAQ TO RECITE NAMAZ.THE MOLVISAIDSPEECH ON IMAM SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH AND THAT NON ISMAILI MOLVI INFRONT OF ALL NON ISMAILI MUSLIMS SAID IN HIS SPEECH IN MASJID THAT
A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WORSHIP HIM AS KRISHAN AVTAAR.
THIS IS NOT A JOKE OR FALSE STORY BUT HISTORY. IT IS IN BOOK NOORUM MUBIN. THERE IS NO NEED FOR IMAM TO PRAY. YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THE TRUE CONCEPT OF IMAMAT IN LIGHT OF QURAN HADITH FARMAN AND GINAN THAN YOU WILL GET ANSWER OF THIS AND MANY OTHER QUESTIONS LIKE THIS.
WHEN WE SAY IMAM THAN THERE ARE TWO THINGS ONE PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY AND ANOTHER NOOR DIVINE LIGHT OF GOD.
WE SENT SALWAT ON PHYSICAL BODY NOT NOOR
IMAM AS HUMAN WAS BORN ON 13 DECEMBER BUT NOOR OF IMAM IS ALWAYS AND WILL ALWAYS PRESENT IN THIS WORLD.
ACCORDING TO YOU
Therefore it must be that they relied and rely and prayed and pray to Allah (most high) and cannot be exempt from prayer. Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) was closer to the Universal Intellect then we are - that's why he received the message. The Imams are closer too but not as close as Muhammed. But they are all still human (they exist in this world). The only beings exempt from prayer in this world are animals and plants - they have no intellect.
PROPHET MUHAMMAD AND IMAM ALI ARE ONE NOOR OF GOD. IT IS OLD DUA IT IS IN HADITH AND IT IS ISMAILISM YOU ARE TELLING CONCEPT OF ISNASHARI NOT OF ISMAILISM ALL IMAM HAVE SAME NOOR IT IS IN FARMAN. CAN ONE NOOR BE GREATER THAN ANOTHER. I KNOW THERE ARE MANY FALSE HADITHS WHICH YOU CAN WRITE BUT I DO NOT BELIVE IN THOSE HADITHS
HAZRAT MUHAMMAD [PBUH] SAID THAT I AND ALI ARE FROM SAME DIVINE LIGHT.
HE SAID AFTER WAR OF KHYBER THAT O ALI YOU ARE FROM ME AND I AM FROM YOU ... YOUR FLESHIS MY FLESH YOUR BLOOD IS MY BLOOD
THERE ARE MANY HADITH LIKE THIS. IF YOU WILL READ THEM AND THINK OVER IT YOU WILL KNOW THAT CONCEPT OF IMAMAT ACCORDING TO ISMAILISM IS TRUE CONCEPT.
YOU SAID
If the Hindus believe that Ram was God then it's out of the Islamic league. Allah(Most High, Most Gracious) cannot have physical attributes thus Ram cannot be God. Just in the same way Isa cannot be God as the Christians believe
REGARDING JESUS CHRIST, HE WAS NOT GOD ACCORDING TO QURAN,FARMAN,GINANS AND HADITHS BUT GOD HAS PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES.
IT IS IN QURAN HAZRAT MUSA SAW LIGHT OF ALLAH IN TRESS.
HAZRAT MUSA GAVE SIJDA TO TRESS SAID YOU ARE MY GOD. HAZTRAT MUSA DID NOT BELIEVE TREE AS GOD BUT HE DO SIJDA TO ALLAH.
IF STILL YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THAN IT IS MY ADVISE FOR YOU TO READ THE BOOK RISLA DARHAQIQAT DEEN WRITTEN BY PIR SHAHBUDDIN SHAH. THIS BOOK IS IN PERSIAN BUT YOU CAN GET ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS AS IT IS TRANSLATED IN MANY LANGUAGES
IN THIS BOOK HE HAS PROVED ABOUT PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES IN LIGHT OF QURAN AND HADITHS SO READ IT .
YOU WROTE THAT
Farmans are a right guidance by the Imam of the time to help us to interpret the meaning of the Qur'an. Understood. But it's not a replacement for reading the actual Qur'an ourselves. The Imam is the teacher the Qur'an is the textbook. Sometimes we have to go back to the textbook to understand what the teacher is saying too.
I AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS. IT IS ALSO IN FARMAN TO READ QURAN BUT WITHOUT UNDERSTADING TRUE CONCEPT OF IMAM AND ALLAH AND PROPHET ANY ONE CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THE QURAN.
ACCORDING TO YOU
Ginans are other peoples interpretations of the Qur'an I believe. They can't replace the Qur'an (Allah's(Most high, Most gracious) words or the Farmans of the Imams(peace be upon them) or the teachings of the the Prophets(peace be upon them) which are all given on right authority and wisdom.
I think that Ismailism has had a lot of contact with Hinduism in the past and that some of the interpretations of the Qur'an in that period came from a Hinduistic approach. In that light some of those interpretations are probably not going to agree with Islam. Indeed some of the practices of Ismailism have resemblance to Hinduism. Remember the pictures of Hazir Imam at the backs of Khane where people would ask for his blessings and eat rose petals? Well that's not too far off from the pictures and statues of different gods that hindus pray to for their blessings. It's no wonder that that practice was forbidden from Khanes.
THERE IS MUCH IMPORTANCE OF GINAN IN OUR RELIGION. THE TRUE TEACHINGS OF PROPHET AND GOD IS IN GINAN. IT YOU WILL READ FARMANS OF HAZIR IMAM AND SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH THAN YOU WILL KNOW WHAT IS IMPORTANCE OF GINAN IN OUR RELIGION.
KHOJAS WERE CONVERTED TO MUSLIMS FROM HINDUS BY PIR BUT ISMAILISM IS DIFFERENT FROM HINDUISM.
THERE IS NOT STATUE OF IMAM TO WHICH WE WORSHIP THERE IS PHOTO OF IMAM BECAUE WE LOVE HIM IN HIS BODY IS DIVINE LIGHT.
IF WE SEE HIS PHOTO THIS IS IBADAT ACCORDING TO HADITH WHCH IS IF YOU SEE FACE OF ALI IT IS WORSHIP.
THESE ARE THE THINGS YOU WILL FIND IN BOOKS OF NON ISMAILIS.
IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO PRAY INFRONT OF HIS PHOTO. HE IS EVERY WHERE.
ABOUT MASJID YOU SAID THAT
About Masjids:
1. It is a misconception that Women and children are not allowed into masjids.
IN COUNTRIESLIKE TURKEY IT IS ALLOWED BUT IN MOST OF THE MOSQUE WOMEN ARE NOT ALLOWED AS MANY MUSLIMS SAYS THAT WOMEN MUST WEAR VEIL AND ALWAYS REMAIN IN HOME. EXTREMIST MUSLIMS CONSIDER WOMEN AS DELICATE AND ACCORDING TO THEM STATUS OF WOMEN IS LOWER THAN MEN ACCORDING TO ISLAM THATS WHY WE NEED IMAM TO GUIDE WHATS RIGHT AND WHATS WRONG. WE ARE LUCKY THAT WE ARE ISMAILIS. TELL ME THE NAME OF ANY SECT WHO HAS SPIRITUAL HEAD LIKE THAT OF OURS. NO ONE IS PRESENT.
SO WE MUST NOT MAKE ARGUMENTS THAT WHY THIS AND WHY THAT.
YOU SAID
My experience with other Muslims is that any chance to pray in collective is taken since the Prophet said this was better.
YOUR FREINDS ARE NON ISMAILIS BUT DONT BELIEVE THEM WHEN THEY SAY SOME THING WHICH IS NOT IN ISMAILISM BUT IS IN THEIR RELIGION.
Allah, Prophethood and Imamate
Ya Ali Madad,
Indeed your questions concerning Ismailism are valid.
The principle of function of a Prophet is to deliver the Message of God. But, what does that really mean?
It means that the Prophet, by virtue of his purified soul, has the ability to access the abstract truths and realities of the Universal Intellect and then express these truths in concrete representation.
In the cosmic hierarchy, the Universal Soul is below the Universal Intellect and the former receives knowledge from the latter. The Prophet Muhammad is thus the Epiphanic form of this Universal Soul. He is able to take the Divine Realities and express them through Parables and metaphors so humans can access the Divine Realities in this way.
The function of the Imam is to interpet the Revelation revealed to the Prophet. What does that really mean?
If the Prophet converts abstract to concrete, then the Imam does the opposite - he takes the Divine Message in its parable and metaphoric form and "returns" it back to its true reality. The Imam basically possesses within him the Divine Realities of the Revelation. He is thus the epiphanic form of the Universal Intellect.
That is why the Cycle of Imamat came after that of Prophecy, so mankind could first be shown the True Path to God, and then the Divine Guide came to actually take them along the True Path. That is why Prophet Muhammad referred to the Imams as the Ark of Noah, because this Ark will return one to God.
Indeed your questions concerning Ismailism are valid.
The principle of function of a Prophet is to deliver the Message of God. But, what does that really mean?
It means that the Prophet, by virtue of his purified soul, has the ability to access the abstract truths and realities of the Universal Intellect and then express these truths in concrete representation.
In the cosmic hierarchy, the Universal Soul is below the Universal Intellect and the former receives knowledge from the latter. The Prophet Muhammad is thus the Epiphanic form of this Universal Soul. He is able to take the Divine Realities and express them through Parables and metaphors so humans can access the Divine Realities in this way.
The function of the Imam is to interpet the Revelation revealed to the Prophet. What does that really mean?
If the Prophet converts abstract to concrete, then the Imam does the opposite - he takes the Divine Message in its parable and metaphoric form and "returns" it back to its true reality. The Imam basically possesses within him the Divine Realities of the Revelation. He is thus the epiphanic form of the Universal Intellect.
That is why the Cycle of Imamat came after that of Prophecy, so mankind could first be shown the True Path to God, and then the Divine Guide came to actually take them along the True Path. That is why Prophet Muhammad referred to the Imams as the Ark of Noah, because this Ark will return one to God.
I will absolutely agree with kkicker. I think his perceptions are very clear and that is exactly what we need in this day and age, a clear idea about the Muslim and more importantly about the Ismaili Ideology
Star_munir's posts are always a delight as his astute study and and knowledge, not to forget his references contribute massively to widen our views.
In my humble opinion, the beauty of Ismailism is its tolerance and underlying motivation to bridge the gaps between the varying outlooks about Islam. Therefore it would be futile to be intensely assertive about your individual beliefs. We as ambassadors of Ismailism are motivated towards doing the maximum for the welfare of the entire muslim ummah and not just Ismailis. The Aga Khan network does not discriminate the ones who perform ruku and those who do not.
I too believe that the Prophets and Imams were closer to Allah hence their knowledge and wisdom far surpasses ours. It would be a fruitless debate to ponder did they need to say their prayers or not but yes I agree with KKicker when he says that we should follow the WAY they did it.
Although there maybe many criticisms against my opinion and I may not be able to negate all but what i understand is that its human nature to express and that is why in Surah-e-Rehman Allah says that it is Him who has tuaght us to speak. It is true that we pratice the batini school of thought yet in my opinion it is rather human to express with action.
I mean take an example of any human relatioship. It is only when a mother takes pains to raise her children, a father struggles to provide the best for his children and a lover expresses his or her heartfelt love through words or actions, do we, the average humanbeings conclude that yes the love, respect, concern and care exists. In other words its human nature to expect physical action or prominent and noticeable backing to support the intangible feelings.
Therefopre I see prayers, the zaheri part with numerous spiritual (batini) advantages as a way for us to express our love, belief, fear or request for help to Allah. In previous ages and in numerous present cultures, it is common to take the most pains for different religious rituals such as the Christians usually fast for 24 hours.
Now going back to the Surah-e-Rehman's reference, it is Allah who intended to teach us (the human race) and ofcourse the medium was via prophets. It is by following the holy Prophet, Hazrat Mohammad that we can attain the righteous path. The zaheri and batini practices must compliment each other as each is incomplete without the other. When for mortal beings we may take pains and make efforts to express our feelings why not Allah, our supreme master.
Nothingh must supercede the thought that Islam is the ideal and the most practical religion. When the deen has been perfected for us and simplified to meet the lifestyle needs for all the times to come, then why make further ammendments. Here we must affirm that the Hazar Imam interprets and answers our queries about our religion. I see him to be exhuasting all his energioes and resources for the betterment of the Muslim Ummah, may they belive in his Immamat or not and that is why the Dawah is officially not propagated. He intends us to be united and ofcourse we all know that the biggest congregation of Muslimjs is the Hajj where All of us offer salat together.
Regards,
Saadi
Star_munir's posts are always a delight as his astute study and and knowledge, not to forget his references contribute massively to widen our views.
In my humble opinion, the beauty of Ismailism is its tolerance and underlying motivation to bridge the gaps between the varying outlooks about Islam. Therefore it would be futile to be intensely assertive about your individual beliefs. We as ambassadors of Ismailism are motivated towards doing the maximum for the welfare of the entire muslim ummah and not just Ismailis. The Aga Khan network does not discriminate the ones who perform ruku and those who do not.
I too believe that the Prophets and Imams were closer to Allah hence their knowledge and wisdom far surpasses ours. It would be a fruitless debate to ponder did they need to say their prayers or not but yes I agree with KKicker when he says that we should follow the WAY they did it.
Although there maybe many criticisms against my opinion and I may not be able to negate all but what i understand is that its human nature to express and that is why in Surah-e-Rehman Allah says that it is Him who has tuaght us to speak. It is true that we pratice the batini school of thought yet in my opinion it is rather human to express with action.
I mean take an example of any human relatioship. It is only when a mother takes pains to raise her children, a father struggles to provide the best for his children and a lover expresses his or her heartfelt love through words or actions, do we, the average humanbeings conclude that yes the love, respect, concern and care exists. In other words its human nature to expect physical action or prominent and noticeable backing to support the intangible feelings.
Therefopre I see prayers, the zaheri part with numerous spiritual (batini) advantages as a way for us to express our love, belief, fear or request for help to Allah. In previous ages and in numerous present cultures, it is common to take the most pains for different religious rituals such as the Christians usually fast for 24 hours.
Now going back to the Surah-e-Rehman's reference, it is Allah who intended to teach us (the human race) and ofcourse the medium was via prophets. It is by following the holy Prophet, Hazrat Mohammad that we can attain the righteous path. The zaheri and batini practices must compliment each other as each is incomplete without the other. When for mortal beings we may take pains and make efforts to express our feelings why not Allah, our supreme master.
Nothingh must supercede the thought that Islam is the ideal and the most practical religion. When the deen has been perfected for us and simplified to meet the lifestyle needs for all the times to come, then why make further ammendments. Here we must affirm that the Hazar Imam interprets and answers our queries about our religion. I see him to be exhuasting all his energioes and resources for the betterment of the Muslim Ummah, may they belive in his Immamat or not and that is why the Dawah is officially not propagated. He intends us to be united and ofcourse we all know that the biggest congregation of Muslimjs is the Hajj where All of us offer salat together.
Regards,
Saadi
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
I would like to answer the question of Saadi which was
When the deen has been perfected for us and simplified to meet the lifestyle needs for all the times to come, then why make further ammendments?
Second caliph [Khalifa] Hazrat Omar Farooq made changes in Azzan made by Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] by adding sentence in it.
If Khalifa has right to make ammendmends and changes who have no spiritual authority than why not it is right of Imam who has authority to do according to Quran and hadiths,who is Aal-e Rasool,Noor of Rasool.
It is in ismaili constitution
Article 1.1
Mawlana Hazar Imam has inherent right and absolute and unfettered power and authority over and in respect of all religious and Jamati matters of the Ismailis
In an interview Hazir Imam was asked
Have you used your power to make any radical changes in the Ismaili religion?
"You don't change the religion. But you might change certain traditions
Reference Sunday Times weekly review December 12 1965.
When the deen has been perfected for us and simplified to meet the lifestyle needs for all the times to come, then why make further ammendments?
Second caliph [Khalifa] Hazrat Omar Farooq made changes in Azzan made by Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] by adding sentence in it.
If Khalifa has right to make ammendmends and changes who have no spiritual authority than why not it is right of Imam who has authority to do according to Quran and hadiths,who is Aal-e Rasool,Noor of Rasool.
It is in ismaili constitution
Article 1.1
Mawlana Hazar Imam has inherent right and absolute and unfettered power and authority over and in respect of all religious and Jamati matters of the Ismailis
In an interview Hazir Imam was asked
Have you used your power to make any radical changes in the Ismaili religion?
"You don't change the religion. But you might change certain traditions
Reference Sunday Times weekly review December 12 1965.
What makes you so sure that the present Namaz or Salaat prayer is what the Holy Prophet (pbuh) really prayed?star_munir wrote:Namaz recited by muslims as taught by Prophet Muhammad[pbuh] is not the same prayer which all prophets taught.
You guys are making a nice intellectual argument, but the bottom line is, what do you FEEL after doing the namaz compared to what you FEEL after doing the Holy Dua prayer?
..get what I mean?
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
What do you feel after reciting dua or namaz depends on your belief
for example hindu would feel inner satisfaction by singing bhajans but muslim will not feel so. So this depends on your belief.
There may be importance of rukku or othere actions in namaz.
I do not say namaz is wrong. It was prayer at the time of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] but the present prayer is dua. There is also importance of dua. For example we recite surah Fatiha and Ikhlaas in dua
According to hadith you get reward of reciting full Qran if you will recite surah Fatiha and by reciting 3 times Surah Ikhlas one can get reward of reciting full Quran so if an ismaili daily recite 3 times prayer he get reward of reading 4 times a Quran in one day. According to Ginan one can also get reward of Hajj by reciting Surah Fatiha.
Each and every verse of dua has its own importance. I dont want to debate on which one is more better and more correct dua or namaz?They both are correct and both have importance but namaz was for that period of time and dua is for this period of time.
for example hindu would feel inner satisfaction by singing bhajans but muslim will not feel so. So this depends on your belief.
There may be importance of rukku or othere actions in namaz.
I do not say namaz is wrong. It was prayer at the time of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] but the present prayer is dua. There is also importance of dua. For example we recite surah Fatiha and Ikhlaas in dua
According to hadith you get reward of reciting full Qran if you will recite surah Fatiha and by reciting 3 times Surah Ikhlas one can get reward of reciting full Quran so if an ismaili daily recite 3 times prayer he get reward of reading 4 times a Quran in one day. According to Ginan one can also get reward of Hajj by reciting Surah Fatiha.
Each and every verse of dua has its own importance. I dont want to debate on which one is more better and more correct dua or namaz?They both are correct and both have importance but namaz was for that period of time and dua is for this period of time.
I agree with star_munir about the underlying belief and ideology being directly related to the satisfaction one gets from reciting or practicing any religious rite.
I would like to add that just like it is best to study and know as much of quran as possible similarly we should also learn namaz even if we don't recite and say offer them as regularly as dua. Namaz may not be obligatory for us Ismailis but still its a part of the religion and we are not prohibited from it. This gives us a good grip on our religion. Especially since for Hajj and Umra we have to say namaz, we should also try to learn the old dua.
Can somebody point out for me as to when was namaz replaced with dua?
I would like to add that just like it is best to study and know as much of quran as possible similarly we should also learn namaz even if we don't recite and say offer them as regularly as dua. Namaz may not be obligatory for us Ismailis but still its a part of the religion and we are not prohibited from it. This gives us a good grip on our religion. Especially since for Hajj and Umra we have to say namaz, we should also try to learn the old dua.
Can somebody point out for me as to when was namaz replaced with dua?
-
star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
I agree with you that if any one want to learn namaz or old dua there is not any thing wrong in it.
Namaz is Persian word for prayer and meaning of Dua,namaz and salat is same.
The gujrati dua was introduced by Pir Sadardin when he converted hindus into muslims.As gujrati was their language and they completely did not understand Arabic their salat was in their own language.
The new Dua which we recite now was introduced by Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah. From Imam Islam Shah till Imam Sultan Muhammad shah ismailis reciteddua made by Pirsadar din although changes were made and it was shortened.
Present dua is in Arabic language and according to present time.Ismailis are not only living in Gujrat or India and Pakistan they are in Canada,in Africa,in Afghanistan,Syria,Iran,U.A.E, etc Culture and language of each country different from another.There is not any language which is spoken by each and every ismaili of the world.Quran is in Arabic.Language of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH].Dua has Quranic verses.Our dua is in Arabic but it is necessary that one should know and understand the meaning of Dua.
Namaz is Persian word for prayer and meaning of Dua,namaz and salat is same.
The gujrati dua was introduced by Pir Sadardin when he converted hindus into muslims.As gujrati was their language and they completely did not understand Arabic their salat was in their own language.
The new Dua which we recite now was introduced by Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah. From Imam Islam Shah till Imam Sultan Muhammad shah ismailis reciteddua made by Pirsadar din although changes were made and it was shortened.
Present dua is in Arabic language and according to present time.Ismailis are not only living in Gujrat or India and Pakistan they are in Canada,in Africa,in Afghanistan,Syria,Iran,U.A.E, etc Culture and language of each country different from another.There is not any language which is spoken by each and every ismaili of the world.Quran is in Arabic.Language of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH].Dua has Quranic verses.Our dua is in Arabic but it is necessary that one should know and understand the meaning of Dua.
DUA
FIRST OF ALL WE DO NOT AND CANNOT PRAY THE DUA.
WE MERELY STAND AS WITNESSES WHILE THE DUA IS RECITED BY THE PIR TO THE IMAM.
In the old dua there was a sentance
pir toe dua padhe
bando venti kare
saccho shah kabul kare.
why do u think Mukhi saheb says bismillah
the one saying the dua says amr mukhisahebjo
mukhi corrects him and says amr hazar imamjo
the person reciting dua is just carrying out the duty of reciting the dua for the pir who happens to be hazar imam and it is with mowlas order (amr) that he or she does so.
this whole thing about how you feel after dua is a misconception which arises from thinking that it is us who recite the dua.
How can u feel if you are a mere witness.
You do not exist when the dua is going on.
There is only the creator as the pir and shah come together.
How can I, a creation, exist in the prescence of the Creator.
Can a shadow exist in the prescence of the Sun.
How can that which doesnt exist ever feel anything.
No it is the pir who recites the dua and we witness it in a state or inner stillness, utmost silence, a state of nothingness.
The level of Pir is reached when Mowla accepts 50,000 years of Bandagi. (according to the ginans)
It is a person at that level who says the dua.
How many of us have the audacity to allege that we have ever done even 1 year of bandagi.
"we say the dua" --I dont think so.
we can only witness the dua and thats it.
listen to the ginans do u not see that it is the love between the Pir and the Imam that is everything.
There are nafs-e-qul and aql-e-qul (both emanating from the same noor) and that which exists between them (i.e. love) is what creation is in my opinion.
so creation is the manifestation (or the reflection) of the love which exists between them both.
Can spiritual children exist without love between the spiritual mother and spiritual father?
We are symbols of that love and that is why we are so dear to our Imam.
We know that all our actions are mere sins in the oceans of Deeds that surround us all.
If we think for a mere second that our Mowla loves us for what we do then I think we have to remember that we are completely dependent on him, so how can we think we have done something to deserve his love.
The Quran states that all bad deeds come from mans own nafs and all good comes from Allah.
so all good is from him. How can I stake my claim on that which is his. Isn't that stealing?
THINK REFLECT ANALYZE AND INTERNALIZE
again these are my own beliefs
pardon me if they hurt instead of stimulate intellectually
shams
WE MERELY STAND AS WITNESSES WHILE THE DUA IS RECITED BY THE PIR TO THE IMAM.
In the old dua there was a sentance
pir toe dua padhe
bando venti kare
saccho shah kabul kare.
why do u think Mukhi saheb says bismillah
the one saying the dua says amr mukhisahebjo
mukhi corrects him and says amr hazar imamjo
the person reciting dua is just carrying out the duty of reciting the dua for the pir who happens to be hazar imam and it is with mowlas order (amr) that he or she does so.
this whole thing about how you feel after dua is a misconception which arises from thinking that it is us who recite the dua.
How can u feel if you are a mere witness.
You do not exist when the dua is going on.
There is only the creator as the pir and shah come together.
How can I, a creation, exist in the prescence of the Creator.
Can a shadow exist in the prescence of the Sun.
How can that which doesnt exist ever feel anything.
No it is the pir who recites the dua and we witness it in a state or inner stillness, utmost silence, a state of nothingness.
The level of Pir is reached when Mowla accepts 50,000 years of Bandagi. (according to the ginans)
It is a person at that level who says the dua.
How many of us have the audacity to allege that we have ever done even 1 year of bandagi.
"we say the dua" --I dont think so.
we can only witness the dua and thats it.
listen to the ginans do u not see that it is the love between the Pir and the Imam that is everything.
There are nafs-e-qul and aql-e-qul (both emanating from the same noor) and that which exists between them (i.e. love) is what creation is in my opinion.
so creation is the manifestation (or the reflection) of the love which exists between them both.
Can spiritual children exist without love between the spiritual mother and spiritual father?
We are symbols of that love and that is why we are so dear to our Imam.
We know that all our actions are mere sins in the oceans of Deeds that surround us all.
If we think for a mere second that our Mowla loves us for what we do then I think we have to remember that we are completely dependent on him, so how can we think we have done something to deserve his love.
The Quran states that all bad deeds come from mans own nafs and all good comes from Allah.
so all good is from him. How can I stake my claim on that which is his. Isn't that stealing?
THINK REFLECT ANALYZE AND INTERNALIZE
again these are my own beliefs
pardon me if they hurt instead of stimulate intellectually
shams
-
noumanmomin
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:54 pm
- Location: Pakistan
Re: dua' and prayers
<BR><BR><BR>"According to Pir Sadruddin Dua to Pir Padhe meaning that it is the Murshid who leads the prayer. Our Holy Prophet led every prayer even during his illness. in the same way the muhki of a jamat, being the representative of the Holy Imam is duty-bound to lead the prayer; however, he ca delegate this dutyto the Kamaria or someone in the jamat occasionally."<BR><BR>above information is quated from <EM>AbuAly A. Aziz</EM> Book "<STRONG>Ismaili Tariq</STRONG>" <BR>kkicker wrote:To those who know.<BR>Question: Does anybody know the reason why our prayers were changed to that which is recited currently from that which was prayed by the Prophet (PBUH)?<BR>Question: Does anybody know if Parorie prayers are compulsory?<BR>Question: Does anybody know why Hazer Imam doesn't lead prayers with his community?
-
_thaillestlunatic_
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:06 pm
saadi wrote:
But what I don't understand is that we ismailis are afterall muslims and when we recite and preserve Quran in Arabic then why not the namaz? Even Naad - e - Ali is also in Arabic. Similarly even the Ismaili community is well spread around the world but we offer the same dua and not native duas for different JKs ???? Not to forget even the Dua has its major portions in Arabic?
Saadi
I was trying not to get into this debate but couldn't hold off any longer...
if one were to take the arguement at face value that because other muslims say namaz we should too..then the arguement also becomes they treat their women like animals and we should too...they are hypocrites and we should be too...
to understand our dua..one has to look at the way MHI has structured our dua..from the 1st part to the last part..
in our dua we say 7 suras of the quran daily...3x7 = 21 surahs of the quran in all.
Namaz there are 4 suras each time 4X5 = 20
Our dua is very very specific to our practice of the faith..
ie first part opens with surah fateha..talking about the mercy and the creation aspect of allah..then talks about guiding us to the right path..
the 2nd part tells us who to ask for guidance..
"obey allah, obey the apostle, and obey the holders of authority from amongst you" and then the main ayat ..."wa kulla ashain asaina hufi imamin mubeen"..talking about the imam..
the 3rd part..refers to Hajjutul Vida and the incident of Ghadirekhum..(ie. where to look for the imam)...
the 4th part is about baiyat, the 5th about not betraying the imam..the 6th has suratul ikhlas and our history...
where in the namaz does it state that..?
The majority of the practises of our faith are community based (with the exception of bandagi)...
Namaz isn't standardized..so anyone can pick and choose any verse from the quran..dua is standardrized..so anyone can go up and lead the namaz for the whole congregation and it will be the same..and it is a discipline of our faith..we are bound to perform dua..not namaz..dua 3x a day..
it is amazing that we have ismaili brethren on here advocating the practise of namaz 5x a day when the same can't fulfill the farmans of the imam when it relates to attendance in jamat khana or dasondh or charity to fellow ismailies...
let's follow one small farman to completion before we try to change our faith..and by the way..the only person who can do that is the Imam of the time...
No FLAMES please.
Shams
-
_thaillestlunatic_
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:06 pm
saying Dua once is like saying the entire Quran numerous times. Everything is in the dua and if Imam has said to recite the Dua then we will, no bullshit about why we should say namaz. It is very clear, in today's time the Imam has instructed us to say the Dua. Now if our Dua as 7 surahs and the Namaz only 4 surahs u tell me which prayer is better?
It is because of ignorance that we split up at Gadir E khum, Nabi Muhammed clearly numerous times indicated Aly would be the Imam.
Now if one wants to say the Namaz so be it, who am I to judge anyway. But remember we have a living Imam to guide us and we should do as to what he has asked.
Ya Aly Madat,
It is because of ignorance that we split up at Gadir E khum, Nabi Muhammed clearly numerous times indicated Aly would be the Imam.
Now if one wants to say the Namaz so be it, who am I to judge anyway. But remember we have a living Imam to guide us and we should do as to what he has asked.
Ya Aly Madat,
AS RECEIVED
The Quran uses the word "Salaat" that is assumed by the entire population of "Muslims" to be synonymous with Namaz.
In actual fact the word Namaz is not an Arabic word but is borrowed from the Zoroastrians who use that term in their native Persian to describe their ritual prayers.
In truth the word Namaz in not an Arabic word.
It is not found in the Quran. And it was never used by Muhammad nor the generations of Arabs that followed him after his demise.
The Quran mentions the word Salaat quite a few times. I am amazed that it never, however, mentions any ritual associated with it.
The Deen of Islam puts us as servants and Allah as the Master.
In this scenario the true Salaat is one where we have to change our lives and work hard for a result.....and so what do you work hard for? "Roti kapada aur makan.." !!!
Being righteous, doing the right things and performing good deeds are often replaced by rituals promulgated by Mullahs..and the Mowlanas....
These rituals tell us that we have no power over our destiny.
They tell us that all work is to be done by Allah and that we are only to visit buildings and chant Arabic words (without understanding them) and then Allah will do all the work for us as if He is our servant.
This type of thinking has to stop.
We must educate our people to read the Quran and interpret it using their intellect and reason as Islam is a rational faith !
The Quran uses the word "Salaat" that is assumed by the entire population of "Muslims" to be synonymous with Namaz.
In actual fact the word Namaz is not an Arabic word but is borrowed from the Zoroastrians who use that term in their native Persian to describe their ritual prayers.
In truth the word Namaz in not an Arabic word.
It is not found in the Quran. And it was never used by Muhammad nor the generations of Arabs that followed him after his demise.
The Quran mentions the word Salaat quite a few times. I am amazed that it never, however, mentions any ritual associated with it.
The Deen of Islam puts us as servants and Allah as the Master.
In this scenario the true Salaat is one where we have to change our lives and work hard for a result.....and so what do you work hard for? "Roti kapada aur makan.." !!!
Being righteous, doing the right things and performing good deeds are often replaced by rituals promulgated by Mullahs..and the Mowlanas....
These rituals tell us that we have no power over our destiny.
They tell us that all work is to be done by Allah and that we are only to visit buildings and chant Arabic words (without understanding them) and then Allah will do all the work for us as if He is our servant.
This type of thinking has to stop.
We must educate our people to read the Quran and interpret it using their intellect and reason as Islam is a rational faith !
There is a related discussion at:
Dua Old and New
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 21&start=0
Dua Old and New
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 21&start=0
-
mazharshah
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:08 pm
Admin wrote:AS RECEIVED
The Quran uses the word "Salaat" that is assumed by the entire population of "Muslims" to be synonymous with Namaz.
In actual fact the word Namaz is not an Arabic word but is borrowed from the Zoroastrians who use that term in their native Persian to describe their ritual prayers.
In truth the word Namaz in not an Arabic word.
It is not found in the Quran. And it was never used by Muhammad nor the generations of Arabs that followed him after his demise.
The Quran mentions the word Salaat quite a few times. I am amazed that it never, however, mentions any ritual associated with it.
The Deen of Islam puts us as servants and Allah as the Master.
In this scenario the true Salaat is one where we have to change our lives and work hard for a result.....and so what do you work hard for? "Roti kapada aur makan.." !!!
Being righteous, doing the right things and performing good deeds are often replaced by rituals promulgated by Mullahs..and the Mowlanas....
These rituals tell us that we have no power over our destiny.
They tell us that all work is to be done by Allah and that we are only to visit buildings and chant Arabic words (without understanding them) and then Allah will do all the work for us as if He is our servant.
This type of thinking has to stop.
We must educate our people to read the Quran and interpret it using their intellect and reason as Islam is a rational faith !
Admins.
You have complaint that I am not posting in proper thread, and when I follow your instructions still you keep deleting my posts. What was wrong with my previous post when I mentioned that Du'a is foundation of our Tariqa.
Du'a is given by Imam and it is compulsory. Understand the meaning of Du'a
that what Imam has mentioned many times. Therefore understand the meaning of Du'a, understand the Islamic philosophy there in and follow the Hidayat mentioned in Du'a.
NEW: ISMAILI DUA APP FOR ANDROID
Listen to and Read Du'a and meanings right from your phone with the DUA App. Get worldly and spiritual satisfaction. Download the app onto your android phone here:
http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/AppDua
APP FEATURES
Easy access to Du'a
includes information and meanings
includes various recitations
USAGE
French and English Translation
Read Du'a by Paragraph
Read Du'a by Phrase
Browse the glossary of common words
Listen to Du'a by choosing a reciter
Listen to and Read Du'a and meanings right from your phone with the DUA App. Get worldly and spiritual satisfaction. Download the app onto your android phone here:
http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/AppDua
APP FEATURES
Easy access to Du'a
includes information and meanings
includes various recitations
USAGE
French and English Translation
Read Du'a by Paragraph
Read Du'a by Phrase
Browse the glossary of common words
Listen to Du'a by choosing a reciter
Words can be changed.Jasonroy wrote:Duas keep changing and the primary objective is that we stick to the gist of the prayer. As long as the main objective of dua which is guidance is intact, words can be changed.
When words are changed the meaning will also change. When meaning is changed, it will affect the concepts. Hazar Imam has emphasized to learn the meaning of Dua to understand the concepts which will help to guide on sirat e mustaqeem.