786

[star_munir]

786 is used for wirting 'Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem' .
'786' is also aggregation of the numbers of Hari Krishna'.

H(a)iri Kr(i)shna h-5, r-200, r-10, k-20, r-200, sh-300, n-50, a-1 = Aggregate of 786

Thus, the aggregate number of these letters (Hari Krishna) equals 786

[Qizilbash]

Is this the letter code called The Abjad?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abjad_numerals

What is the importance of this system in Ismaili tradition?

[agakhani]

<BR><U>H(a)iri Kr(i)shna h-5, r-200, r-10, k-20, r-200, sh-300, n-50, a-1 = Aggregate of 786 <BR><BR>Thus, the aggregate number of these letters (Hari Krishna) equals 786[/quote]<BR><BR></U>Star_Munir, <BR>

From where did you find this aggregation? can you name that book? I do not mean it is wrong aggregation but I want to make sure if possible.

[haroon_adel]

786 is used for wirting 'Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem' .
'786' is also aggregation of the numbers of Hari Krishna'.

H(a)iri Kr(i)shna h-5, r-200, r-10, k-20, r-200, sh-300, n-50, a-1 = Aggregate of 786

Thus, the aggregate number of these letters (Hari Krishna) equals 786

What does "Hari Krishna" mean? And what's the significance of it in our religious? And where's the values for "i" and an "a"?

[arshad1988]

...And where's the values for "i" and an "a"?

In Arabic the short vowel sounds ("a," "i" "u") are absent and expressed through symbols written above/below the letters.

[zina.khan]

ALL ABOUT 786
This story dates back to several thousand years ago when man used to count things or events on his fingers. The Latin word for finger is 'digiti.' That has given us the English word 'digit' for a numeral.

Then man learned to use symbols for each number he needed to represent.

The Arabs used the alphabets of their language to denote numbers.

ABJAD HAWWAZ HUTTI KALEMAN
S'AFAS QARASHAT SAKKADH ZAZZAGH


Consequently the numbers assigned to each letter came out to be as follows:

LETTER VALUE

Alif 1

Ba 2

Jeem 3

Daal 4

Ha (round) 5

Wow 6

Za 7


HA (guttural) 8

Toey 9

Ya 10

Kaaf 20

Laam 30

Meem 40

Noon 50

Seen 60

Ayn 70

Fa 80

Swad 90

Qaaf 100

Ra 200

Sheen 300

Ta 400

Tha 500

Kha 600

Dhaal 700

Dhwaad 800

Zoey 900

Ghayn 1000


That gave the Arab poets a tool for recording significant events in history.

They were brilliant poets. So, they would compose a few lines of poetry in such a way that a line or a number of lines together would represent the exact date of the event.

The calculation of the date would be done just by adding the numbers assigned each one of the alphabets employed in that line of poetry by applying the values given above.

When Islam came the Holy Qur'an became the standard Arabic text in the community for all reading and writing.

The Prophet of Islam sent out letters of invitation to the surrounding areas.

Each letter that the Prophet dictated to his scribes would always begin with Bismillah Ar-Rahman ar-Raheem.

That also became the standard for all letter writing for Muslims.

However, there was a downside to that practice.

Not all letters were of great significance to a reader. Some were of great importance and the reader of the letter would want to keep it.

Others, on the other hand, were not important.

They had to be disposed off. Now, here was a problem. You cannot, as a believing and practicing Muslim throw a piece of paper in the dust bin if Allah's name is written on it.

Then someone found a brilliant solution to the problem.

If instead of writing the full 'bismillah' one could write a symbol which would remind the reader so that he would immediately recite 'bismillah' before begin to read the text of the letter, that would really solve the problem.

What better symbol could there be than depicting a number that would represent 'bismillah.'

The formula was already there.

So, 'bismillah' was written in long hand and each letter used in that phrase was ciphered to depict the exact number from the ABJAD.

That gave us the number 786.

Hence the practice of starting a letter with that number. The '786' written at the head of a letter is a reminder to the reader to recite 'bismillah' before starting to read the text of the letter.

There is neither any superstition in it nor is their any hidden black magic.

Curiously enough, I have not seen that practice among the Arabic speaking Muslims.

It is though very common among the Muslims of India and Pakistan.

New comers to Islam, and even some of the Arabs think that it is an innovation (bid'at). Nothing could be further from the truth.

It is a very intelligent way to save a Qur'anic verse from desecration by carelessness and lack of concern.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Syed-Mohsin Naquvi
============================================






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[haroon_adel]

ALL ABOUT 786
This story dates back to several thousand years ago when man used to count things or events on his fingers. The Latin word for finger is 'digiti.' That has given us the English word 'digit' for a numeral.

Then man learned to use symbols for each number he needed to represent.

The Arabs used the alphabets of their language to denote numbers.

ABJAD HAWWAZ HUTTI KALEMAN
S'AFAS QARASHAT SAKKADH ZAZZAGH


Consequently the numbers assigned to each letter came out to be as follows:

LETTER VALUE

Alif 1

Ba 2

Jeem 3

Daal 4

Ha (round) 5

Wow 6

Za 7


HA (guttural) 8

Toey 9

Ya 10

Kaaf 20

Laam 30

Meem 40

Noon 50

Seen 60

Ayn 70

Fa 80

Swad 90

Qaaf 100

Ra 200

Sheen 300

Ta 400

Tha 500

Kha 600

Dhaal 700

Dhwaad 800

Zoey 900

Ghayn 1000


That gave the Arab poets a tool for recording significant events in history.

They were brilliant poets. So, they would compose a few lines of poetry in such a way that a line or a number of lines together would represent the exact date of the event.

The calculation of the date would be done just by adding the numbers assigned each one of the alphabets employed in that line of poetry by applying the values given above.

When Islam came the Holy Qur'an became the standard Arabic text in the community for all reading and writing.

The Prophet of Islam sent out letters of invitation to the surrounding areas.

Each letter that the Prophet dictated to his scribes would always begin with Bismillah Ar-Rahman ar-Raheem.

That also became the standard for all letter writing for Muslims.

However, there was a downside to that practice.

Not all letters were of great significance to a reader. Some were of great importance and the reader of the letter would want to keep it.

Others, on the other hand, were not important.

They had to be disposed off. Now, here was a problem. You cannot, as a believing and practicing Muslim throw a piece of paper in the dust bin if Allah's name is written on it.

Then someone found a brilliant solution to the problem.

If instead of writing the full 'bismillah' one could write a symbol which would remind the reader so that he would immediately recite 'bismillah' before begin to read the text of the letter, that would really solve the problem.

What better symbol could there be than depicting a number that would represent 'bismillah.'

The formula was already there.

So, 'bismillah' was written in long hand and each letter used in that phrase was ciphered to depict the exact number from the ABJAD.

That gave us the number 786.

Hence the practice of starting a letter with that number. The '786' written at the head of a letter is a reminder to the reader to recite 'bismillah' before starting to read the text of the letter.

There is neither any superstition in it nor is their any hidden black magic.

Curiously enough, I have not seen that practice among the Arabic speaking Muslims.

It is though very common among the Muslims of India and Pakistan.

New comers to Islam, and even some of the Arabs think that it is an innovation (bid'at). Nothing could be further from the truth.

It is a very intelligent way to save a Qur'anic verse from desecration by carelessness and lack of concern.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Syed-Mohsin Naquvi
============================================






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!

Thank you Zina for this information.

@star_munir:

I would still want to know the connection of Hari Krishna, which has a hindu root, I guess with 786.

[zina.khan]

@star_munir:

I would still want to know the connection of Hari Krishna, which has a hindu root, I guess with 786 writes Haroon....

********************
I have found some information for you...it is not necessarily own viewpoints but you will find this information both on wikipedia and Youtube....enjoy...you now have both the perspectives to ponder over !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNraVirlP8U&feature=fvw

This "magical" number 786 is none other than

the Vedic holy letter "OM" written in Sanskrit.

This is a false comparison because Numerology is neither a language nor does it help in preserving or spreading the teachings of the Qur'aan. The sole purpose of Numerology is to make charms and amulets, which are used as a part of the religion to avert misfortune and evil eye.

Some believers even go further and conclude that :

The final analysis of the code 786

It is relevant in ‘Islam as “Bismillah”
AND

in Hindu’s as "Hare Krishna".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV9b3U9ZtJk

In a weekly youth conference in Jamea Masjid Preston, a very interesting topic was on the mat!! Maulaana Ilyas -the imam of the masjid was asked the meaning of 786. Does it have any significance in Islam ? Does it mean bismillah hirahmaanirraheem????

Sadly the answer was NO.

Due to our ignorance we have used these numbers believing them to be sacred .What they actually signify is the hindu God HARI OHM.. I felt sick when I heard this, so I decided to pass the info to as many people as possible.

When I was learning Arabic a few years ago my teacher told me there is a system in Arabic called the abjad system in which each Arabic letter signifies a number.


Javeria hussain

[haroon_adel]

@star_munir:

I would still want to know the connection of Hari Krishna, which has a hindu root, I guess with 786 writes Haroon....

********************
I have found some information for you...it is not necessarily own viewpoints but you will find this information both on wikipedia and Youtube....enjoy...you now have both the perspectives to ponder over !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNraVirlP8U&feature=fvw

This "magical" number 786 is none other than

the Vedic holy letter "OM" written in Sanskrit.

This is a false comparison because Numerology is neither a language nor does it help in preserving or spreading the teachings of the Qur'aan. The sole purpose of Numerology is to make charms and amulets, which are used as a part of the religion to avert misfortune and evil eye.

Some believers even go further and conclude that :

The final analysis of the code 786

It is relevant in ‘Islam as “Bismillah”
AND

in Hindu’s as "Hare Krishna".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV9b3U9ZtJk

In a weekly youth conference in Jamea Masjid Preston, a very interesting topic was on the mat!! Maulaana Ilyas -the imam of the masjid was asked the meaning of 786. Does it have any significance in Islam ? Does it mean bismillah hirahmaanirraheem????

Sadly the answer was NO.

Due to our ignorance we have used these numbers believing them to be sacred .What they actually signify is the hindu God HARI OHM.. I felt sick when I heard this, so I decided to pass the info to as many people as possible.

When I was learning Arabic a few years ago my teacher told me there is a system in Arabic called the abjad system in which each Arabic letter signifies a number.


Javeria hussain

hummm..... Interesting, indeed!!

[zznoor]

I goggled the following

What is the significance of 786 in Islam

I found the many hits

One Answer:

786 is numerological value to "Bismillah Ar Rahman Nir/ir Rahim" which has surfaced recent era and it is an innovation ( Bidah ) in Islam and it is forbidden or more specifically "Haram" since Quran opposes Astrology,fortune telling, Numerology and such business and queries.


The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Every innovation is misguidance and going astray, and all what drives man astray leads to Hell-Fire."

This tradition is not from the time of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, or his Companions. It developed much later, perhaps during the later `Abbasid period.

Few people derived this 786 from the ancient arabic numerology and this sometimes also refers to a hindu religious slogan called " hare krishna " and makes it further unsuable.

Those who invented the "786", are GUILTY of tampering with the text of the Holy Qur'an. Muslims are invited to give up this EVIL and disgusting practice of using 786. It is, I repeat, an innovation, evil and in NO WAY sacred. It is a conspiracy against the kitaab (book) of Allah.

Another answer

786 is the numerical representation of "Bismillahirrahamaanirraheem" has no religious or Islamic significance.

The numerals 786 or any other numerals in no way represent 'Bismillaah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem' or other Surahs of the noble Qur'ân and is not the Sunnah either.

CAN NUMBER 786 REPLACE THE HOLY NAME OF GOD?

Allaah say in Qur'ân "Verily, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'ân in order that you may understand" (Surah Yousuf 12:2).

We are instructed to recite the Qur'an Majeed, as can be seen from the following verses: "And (it is) a Qur'ân which We have divided (into parts), in order that you might recite it to me n at intervals. And We have revealed it by stages. (in 23 years)." (Surah Bani Israil 17:106); "....So RECITE as much of the Qur'ân as may be easy (for you),..." (Surah Muzammil 73:20).

Now would one recite the Qur'an if it is reduced to numbers? As an example, we shall reduce the Surah Fatihah to numerical figures for the benefit of the reader.

Bismillaahir Rahmaanir Raheem............................................... 786
Al-humdolillaahir rubbuaalamin............................................... 632
Ar-Rahmaan-ur-Raheem........................................................ 618
Malikay yawm-midhdeen...................................................... 242
Eeyya ka Na' Bo-du Wa eeyya ka nastha'een........................... 836
Ah'daynas-sira thalmustaqeem...........and in NO WAY sacred. It is a conspiracy against the Holy Book of Allaah.

This old game of numbers was practised by the ancient Egyptians, as did many other civilizations. Islam came to ELIMINATE ALL such superstitions, mysteries and numerological mumbo-jumbo. However, Muslims are still enslaved to the number game, and think that 786 represent BISMILLAAHIR RAHMAANIR RAHEEM.
The innovation of writing '786' replacing 'Bismillaah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem' has been adopted for a long time and the majority of the Ummah is still indulged in it inadvertently. Apart from the common folk, the scholars also heed no attention towards it and to avoid disrespect to the Holy Words they use it in their letters and documents. They adopt it as 'correct' and 'better' way to invite Allah's blessings and have also started replacing the Holy Words by this number on their houses, offices, buildings, etc. Unfortunately, this tendency is gradually gaining momentum. But, do we see this number instead of the Holy Words in the Holy Qur'ân? Or, can we write it there as well?
Can we remove 'Bismillaah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem' from the top of Surah al-Fatihah and replace it with the number 786? Obviously not.
If we study the Qur'ân, we see it carries the holy words in a letter from Prophet Solomon (pbuh) to the Queen of Sheeba - Bilqis - who was an infidel at that time. Even Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in his letters to different heads of states and governments, used the holy words at the top. Therefore, whosoever uses 786 with the intention to obtain Allaah's blessings, is a misguided person and any attempt to justify it, is ignorance.
More astonishing is that fact that '786' is an aggregation of the numbers of Hindu 'Lord Hari Krishna'.
H(a)ri Kr(I)shna h-5, R-200, R-10, k-20, R-200, sh-300, n-50, a-1 = Aggregate of 786, Thus, the aggregate number of these letters (Hari Krishna) equals 786. This is also the case of 'Bismillaah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem'. There can be many word that can make that count. The above was just an example and not to be taken in the wrong sense.
Islam's foundation is laid on the belief in Taw heed (oneness of God). If we associate anyone with Allah's exalted names orally or practically, we would be committing infidelity which is an unpardonable sin. The Qur'an warns us, one who finds a rival against Allah, Allah will never allow him to enter paradise, and his abode is the hell. The letters by the Prophet (pbuh) to non-Muslim Kings and chiefs bear the holy words 'Bismillaah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem'. This was also the case of his noble companions. Did the Prophet (pbuh) and his companions respect the Holy Words less than we do? Was the verse, 'Today I completed your religion for you' (Surah Maidah 5:3), revealed to the Prophet (pbuh) or to the so called scholars of our age who are all bent to amend the Divine principles.
Now, when it became known that '786' is written in place of Hindu, 'Lord Krishna', and has no significance in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, it is obviously an innovation and goes against the Divine doctrine of 'Obey Allah and His Prophet'. Beware, of newly-innovated matters, for every innovation is a going astray (Jahanam).
Similarly, some Muslims replace Allah's name by the number '66' and the Prophet's name by '92'. But if one ask, the number '420' is used against somebody's name and he is called '420'. Can he bear such an insult?
Calling someone by a nick name is also a sin. Allah Ta'ala says, 'Don't call one another by nick names'. If Allah prohibits the use of nicknames for fellow human beings, how can He allow the use of such insulting replacement number for Himself and His Prophet (pbuh).'Bismillaah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem' great significance in the Qur'an and Muslims are ordered to begin any work but in the names Allah, not in the number of '786' or any other substitution.
Note : I copy/pasted these answers
zz

[zina.khan]

"...A book of verses of which are well expounded, a discourse in Arabic for people who understand(41:3) We have revealed the Qur’an in Arabic so that you may understand..."

Empty vessels as always make the most noise ! why have you not answered my simple questions which I had asked you to give me from your arabic text? What are you afraid of? or are you simply boasting when you can't even read or write arabic?

Secondly 80% of the muslims are reading texts which are non-arabic including yourself and the ayats that you quote here in this forum, is from english versions and you have conceded in this forum that these translations are faulty?

The ayats you show above say that only a discourse in arabic is what people will understand and yet you are quoting in english and giving "lectures" and forming obscurantist opinions though the quran itself is full of symbols and parable and it is not easy other than to show generosity of differing interpretations....