How many Ismaili-Muslims are actually there in the world?
I've read different numbers, ranging from 15 millions to 20 millions...
Let's count in lump sum...with modest exaggeration.
1 quarter of million in North America (U.S. and Canada)
1 quarter of million in Europe and Middle East (Syria and other Arab countries)
1 half of million in the whole African Continent
1 million in Indian Sub Continent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc...)
2 million in central Asia (Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, and other former USSR)
1 million in China, Australia, New Zealand and other Asian countries.
0 in Antarctica...I suppose, if not hope
That's just 5 million...Where are the rest of at least 10 million or more? I've spoken with few people around the world, specially from Central Asia (due to general lack of details about the area) but no one could explain the numbers. I have even sent e-mails to prominent Ismaili web sites ( IIS and theismaili.org) but got no response back. What am I missing here? Where am I wrong?
I am thinking about contacting directly to His Highness The Aga Khan thru His secretariat on this matter...
How many Ismaili-Muslims are actually there in the world?
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Mehreen1221
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From_Alamut
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Re: How many Ismaili-Muslims are actually there in the world
First of all, you forgot about Russia, since Russia is the largest country in the world there are millions and millions of Shia Ismaili Muslim (Mashallah) in each part of their provinces, but since they are not Russian citizenship and can not effort to get them because of the evil government, the Ismailis are suffering from polices and therefore they are under secret account.
Second, the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslim they live around the world, approximately 25 countries.
Third, as much the world moves and generation past to new generation, that much new child born into each Ismaili Muslim families around the world and at the same time new people convert in Ismailism faith, by that the number increase step by step. The world is getting smaller but their population get increase.
Second, the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslim they live around the world, approximately 25 countries.
Third, as much the world moves and generation past to new generation, that much new child born into each Ismaili Muslim families around the world and at the same time new people convert in Ismailism faith, by that the number increase step by step. The world is getting smaller but their population get increase.
Mehreen1221 wrote:How many Ismaili-Muslims are actually there in the world?
I've read different numbers, ranging from 15 millions to 20 millions...
Let's count in lump sum...with modest exaggeration.
1 quarter of million in North America (U.S. and Canada)
1 quarter of million in Europe and Middle East (Syria and other Arab countries)
1 half of million in the whole African Continent
1 million in Indian Sub Continent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc...)
2 million in central Asia (Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, and other former USSR)
1 million in China, Australia, New Zealand and other Asian countries.
0 in Antarctica...I suppose, if not hope
That's just 5 million...Where are the rest of at least 10 million or more? I've spoken with few people around the world, specially from Central Asia (due to general lack of details about the area) but no one could explain the numbers. I have even sent e-mails to prominent Ismaili web sites ( IIS and theismaili.org) but got no response back. What am I missing here? Where am I wrong?
I am thinking about contacting directly to His Highness The Aga Khan thru His secretariat on this matter...
This is an excerpt from MHI's speech....
Speech by His Highness the Aga Khan
Lisbon, 19 December 2005
excerpt:
"Portugal is a small country, with a long history, and its role in the world has been illuminated by peaks of glory. The Ismaili Community is a small community with a long history also illuminated by peaks of glory. Our respective histories have also, at times, been arked by conflict and internal challenges. They have often strengthened us.
Portugal's population is only slightly smaller than that of the Ismaili
Community worldwide today. We have, therefore, very much in common, which underscores the logic of our new and formal relationship. But
there are also differences.
Portugal is rooted in the centuries old Christian world, whereas the Ismaili Imamat is rooted in the centuries old Muslim world. Portugal's influence has been essentially in Africa and South America, with an occasional presence in Asia. The Ismaili Community is significantly present in Central and South Asia, the Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa, but it is nearly totally absent from South America. What brings us together is not only our historical similarities and our mutual respect for our past, but our wish to work together better to address the opportunities and the problems which will confront us in the decades ahead. Our respective histories have taught us to place our trust in human values and to root them in an ethical view of life."
Portugal's population is about 11million.
Speech by His Highness the Aga Khan
Lisbon, 19 December 2005
excerpt:
"Portugal is a small country, with a long history, and its role in the world has been illuminated by peaks of glory. The Ismaili Community is a small community with a long history also illuminated by peaks of glory. Our respective histories have also, at times, been arked by conflict and internal challenges. They have often strengthened us.
Portugal's population is only slightly smaller than that of the Ismaili
Community worldwide today. We have, therefore, very much in common, which underscores the logic of our new and formal relationship. But
there are also differences.
Portugal is rooted in the centuries old Christian world, whereas the Ismaili Imamat is rooted in the centuries old Muslim world. Portugal's influence has been essentially in Africa and South America, with an occasional presence in Asia. The Ismaili Community is significantly present in Central and South Asia, the Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa, but it is nearly totally absent from South America. What brings us together is not only our historical similarities and our mutual respect for our past, but our wish to work together better to address the opportunities and the problems which will confront us in the decades ahead. Our respective histories have taught us to place our trust in human values and to root them in an ethical view of life."
Portugal's population is about 11million.
Being an Ismaili is a matter of the soul, not of the body. Only Imam knows whose soul he calls his beloved spiritual children. Imam's saying is therefore final in this matter.
However think in this terms:
If you have been to Masyaf, you know there are 5 or 6 different types of Ismaili groups.. all believe in Imam Ismail [therefore are Ismailis] but not necessarily in the present Imam.
The Druzes are Ismailis. The Whoras - Mustealians are Ismailis. There are one million Mustealian Ismailis in saudi arabia. There is a large concentration in Yemen, also they are known as whoras in India. Druzes are in the mountains, mostly in Syria, Lebanon, Golan hights, now South America also since more then half Century. Joumblat, the leader of the Druze has previously indicated their intention of joining the main stream under the leadership of Hazar Imam. 25 years ago we had about 500 Druzes in Montreal, Canada. I don't know about other places in the Western World but they started migrating very early.
There are 4.5 millions followers of Ramdev Pir, in Rajasthan, an offshoot of Ismailis that will join back in a twinkle of the eye when the Imam decides.
In 1988, I went to Pirana, Gujrat. I met with the Mota Kaka of Imam Shahis, he told me that they are an offshot of the Fatimids. Hindus maybe trying to convert them but they know they are not Hindus but ismailis.
Few years ago I came across books by some Hindus... they looked like Bhajan books. reading them, they were countless reference to Panj Tan Pak, Shah Nizar, Alamut etc... During the SOS Khojki Conference, al Waez Salim Musa mentioned some neighbours in Toronto that used to recite our ginans, upon inquiring, they said they were Athias since Centuries. Some of them found about main stream Ismailism and few later joined back our Jamat.
Pir Shams opened 84 jk in China in his time. The population of China was small at that times. Now there are more then 50 millions Muslims, many Ismailis, still in secret. The rulers in Vietnam during Fatimid times were ismailis, our Dai went to preach very far.
In Iran, which is dominated by Ithnashris, they are not openly saying they are Ismailis but they are tons.
When I was a kid, the general belief was that there were no Ismailis left in Soviet Union because of decades upon decades of religious restriction. Soviet Union has disappeared but Ismailis are still there. How long did it take to our ex Soviet Ismailis to come in the open? Once Imam decide, all will come out.
12 millions? 15 Millions? 20 millions? who cares. Maybe there are more. maybe many will leave the Imam in our times and some day we will be less.
When the Imam was asked if he plans to increase the number of Ismaiis during his Imamat, he replied absolutely NOT! The Imam knows better.
However think in this terms:
If you have been to Masyaf, you know there are 5 or 6 different types of Ismaili groups.. all believe in Imam Ismail [therefore are Ismailis] but not necessarily in the present Imam.
The Druzes are Ismailis. The Whoras - Mustealians are Ismailis. There are one million Mustealian Ismailis in saudi arabia. There is a large concentration in Yemen, also they are known as whoras in India. Druzes are in the mountains, mostly in Syria, Lebanon, Golan hights, now South America also since more then half Century. Joumblat, the leader of the Druze has previously indicated their intention of joining the main stream under the leadership of Hazar Imam. 25 years ago we had about 500 Druzes in Montreal, Canada. I don't know about other places in the Western World but they started migrating very early.
There are 4.5 millions followers of Ramdev Pir, in Rajasthan, an offshoot of Ismailis that will join back in a twinkle of the eye when the Imam decides.
In 1988, I went to Pirana, Gujrat. I met with the Mota Kaka of Imam Shahis, he told me that they are an offshot of the Fatimids. Hindus maybe trying to convert them but they know they are not Hindus but ismailis.
Few years ago I came across books by some Hindus... they looked like Bhajan books. reading them, they were countless reference to Panj Tan Pak, Shah Nizar, Alamut etc... During the SOS Khojki Conference, al Waez Salim Musa mentioned some neighbours in Toronto that used to recite our ginans, upon inquiring, they said they were Athias since Centuries. Some of them found about main stream Ismailism and few later joined back our Jamat.
Pir Shams opened 84 jk in China in his time. The population of China was small at that times. Now there are more then 50 millions Muslims, many Ismailis, still in secret. The rulers in Vietnam during Fatimid times were ismailis, our Dai went to preach very far.
In Iran, which is dominated by Ithnashris, they are not openly saying they are Ismailis but they are tons.
When I was a kid, the general belief was that there were no Ismailis left in Soviet Union because of decades upon decades of religious restriction. Soviet Union has disappeared but Ismailis are still there. How long did it take to our ex Soviet Ismailis to come in the open? Once Imam decide, all will come out.
12 millions? 15 Millions? 20 millions? who cares. Maybe there are more. maybe many will leave the Imam in our times and some day we will be less.
When the Imam was asked if he plans to increase the number of Ismaiis during his Imamat, he replied absolutely NOT! The Imam knows better.
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Mehreen1221
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How many Ismaili Muslims are there in the world?
Well, I did not forget Russia, as it was part of former USSR. So how many Ismailies are there in Russia? I am not looking for guesses, imaginations and folklores. Beside that I am a Russian and did not appreciate some one calling my government evil. Please stick with the topic with relevance and sensitivity. And I think that how many countries Ismaili Muslims live in or new born and dead or converts are not directly affecting the numbers significantly as that mostly evens out.
Kmaherali, you provided a very substantial excerpt of His Highness The Aga Khan's speech regarding my inquiry. This quote definitely backs up the number of Ismailies between 11 million to 15 million. However, I am not able to add up the numbers to that with the information I have. Let’s agree on that there are 15 million (less or more) Ismaili Muslims in the world, the point is where actually are that other than 5 million I counted.
Admin, I think when the world generally talks about Ismaili Muslims, it means Shia Imami Ismaili Nizari Muslims, The spiritual followers of His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan IV, not any other sects of Shia Islam. In fact the numbers will be much higher than 15 million if we count all the people of other sub sects who followed Hazrat Ismail (AS) the son of Hazrat Jafar Sadiq (AS) as their Imam.
Most people seem to shrug off my question by saying "who cares?" and it seems like most people don't care about the actual numbers. But I do for some reasons.
By looking on the world map and digging up Shia Ismailia history of last few centuries it seems to me that China, Central Asia, Iran and Russia may have millions of unaccounted followers of His Highness Karim Aga Khan.
Kmaherali, you provided a very substantial excerpt of His Highness The Aga Khan's speech regarding my inquiry. This quote definitely backs up the number of Ismailies between 11 million to 15 million. However, I am not able to add up the numbers to that with the information I have. Let’s agree on that there are 15 million (less or more) Ismaili Muslims in the world, the point is where actually are that other than 5 million I counted.
Admin, I think when the world generally talks about Ismaili Muslims, it means Shia Imami Ismaili Nizari Muslims, The spiritual followers of His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan IV, not any other sects of Shia Islam. In fact the numbers will be much higher than 15 million if we count all the people of other sub sects who followed Hazrat Ismail (AS) the son of Hazrat Jafar Sadiq (AS) as their Imam.
Most people seem to shrug off my question by saying "who cares?" and it seems like most people don't care about the actual numbers. But I do for some reasons.
By looking on the world map and digging up Shia Ismailia history of last few centuries it seems to me that China, Central Asia, Iran and Russia may have millions of unaccounted followers of His Highness Karim Aga Khan.
Millions still to be discovered
Yeah its a fact that there are milllion of Ismaili Muslims living in China and RUssia.....and their number is increasing day by day.......I heard this from a wellknown missionary (his name was Abu Ali I guess)who came to Garden Karachi back in 2005/06...although he was not supposed to say this ...but his ecstasy didnt let him hide this from general Jamat........He was saying that there are more than 5/6 million Ismaili in china and such number is living in Russia in secret.....I dont remeber the actual numbers but I remeber the numbers were to my surprise.....and I have heard from some sources that HI is in contact with these hidden Ismailis......soon its will be the time when they will no more be hidden.......and that time will be time of great change.....again this is not me who is saying this......it was the missionary who said this................and the biggest surprise was ...........SOON (within few decades) we are gona have Ismaili Kingdom Worldwide!!!
Re: How many Ismaili Muslims are there in the world?
Abually Missionary in an article: Ismaili Population in the World written in 1978, gave the following figures.Mehreen1221 wrote: By looking on the world map and digging up Shia Ismailia history of last few centuries it seems to me that China, Central Asia, Iran and Russia may have millions of unaccounted followers of His Highness Karim Aga Khan.
Afghanistan 600,000
China and Mangolia 6,500,000
Europe, North and South
America & Africa 120,000
India, Pakistan & Far East 700,000
Iran, Iraq, Turkey 1,000,000
Middle East 150,000
Russia 14,000,000
========
TOTAL 23, 070,000
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Mehreen1221
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Hunzai, if you meant the "Ismaili Kingdom" in political sense, then I think that is very unlikely...almost impossible and sounds too fictional. Contemporary Ismaili Muslim traditions and Aga Khan III and IV pacifically have rejected such notions repeatedly. There won't be another Alamaut, or Fatimid Empire or such.
Anyways, Kmaherali, these numbers from the article of Missionary Abuali are very surprising to me. Somehow I don't believe in some of that, though I might be wrong.
I have listened to abuali's few lectures and I think he is too optimistic and sometimes prophetic about different social issue and sort of gets carried away. He sounds almost too good to be true though I cannot judge his spiritual and religious knowledge and strength.
So, if China and Russia and may be other parts of central and East Asia have about half of the Ismailies in the world, that is a very fascinating phenomenon to me.
Today, we are living in the information age and Global Society. Every aspects of it is linked together so profoundly and here I wonder how these Ismailies are living like, what are there religious and social traditions, languages, customs, political psyches, educational and health backgrounds, whether they are they poor or wealthy in their respective societies and how are their religious literary materials and places of prayers like. And above all of that, how are they in contact with Imamati Institutions? We don't get news and information about them at all…when was the last time His Highness visited Chinese or Russian Ismaili Jamat? I am sure He has His ways and means to do all that…but that is all sort of hidden from general population…
Maybe I am too optimistic about the Global Society and we are not completely there yet.
Or maybe this matter is, after all, as esoteric as the faith itself…just between the Murshid and His Murids.
Anyways, Kmaherali, these numbers from the article of Missionary Abuali are very surprising to me. Somehow I don't believe in some of that, though I might be wrong.
I have listened to abuali's few lectures and I think he is too optimistic and sometimes prophetic about different social issue and sort of gets carried away. He sounds almost too good to be true though I cannot judge his spiritual and religious knowledge and strength.
So, if China and Russia and may be other parts of central and East Asia have about half of the Ismailies in the world, that is a very fascinating phenomenon to me.
Today, we are living in the information age and Global Society. Every aspects of it is linked together so profoundly and here I wonder how these Ismailies are living like, what are there religious and social traditions, languages, customs, political psyches, educational and health backgrounds, whether they are they poor or wealthy in their respective societies and how are their religious literary materials and places of prayers like. And above all of that, how are they in contact with Imamati Institutions? We don't get news and information about them at all…when was the last time His Highness visited Chinese or Russian Ismaili Jamat? I am sure He has His ways and means to do all that…but that is all sort of hidden from general population…
Maybe I am too optimistic about the Global Society and we are not completely there yet.
Or maybe this matter is, after all, as esoteric as the faith itself…just between the Murshid and His Murids.
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salmanali786
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your wrote "Hunzai, if you meant the "Ismaili Kingdom" in political sense, then I think that is very unlikely...almost impossible and sounds too fictional. Contemporary Ismaili Muslim traditions and Aga Khan III and IV pacifically have rejected such notions repeatedly. There won't be another Alamaut, or Fatimid Empire or such. "
In many Al Waez have said that Fatimid period will come and our Imam will rule again. That is in ginans too. From what I have understood from Ginan and all they this will be by the middle of this century. If you take a look at Imam's developments you can see that this will be happening.
In many Al Waez have said that Fatimid period will come and our Imam will rule again. That is in ginans too. From what I have understood from Ginan and all they this will be by the middle of this century. If you take a look at Imam's developments you can see that this will be happening.
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From_Alamut
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salmanali786 wrote:your wrote "Hunzai, if you meant the "Ismaili Kingdom" in political sense, then I think that is very unlikely...almost impossible and sounds too fictional. Contemporary Ismaili Muslim traditions and Aga Khan III and IV pacifically have rejected such notions repeatedly. There won't be another Alamaut, or Fatimid Empire or such. "
In many Al Waez have said that Fatimid period will come and our Imam will rule again. That is in ginans too. From what I have understood from Ginan and all they this will be by the middle of this century. If you take a look at Imam's developments you can see that this will be happening.
Ya Ali Madad and Salam
I heard from an Al-Waez in a private conversation. He said that Our Imam said in a 5 within 15 years that the Mustali Ismaili will unit Inshallah with us and we will revival Fatimat Empire back. They will accept our Imam as (Mehdi)
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Mehreen1221
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Al-waez? He/she has a name?
Some al waezers are way too optimistic and prophetic...but are no divine authority...
A waezer named Abu Ali from Canada said in a waez that Pakistan will soon be progressing like a rocket...LOL...LMAO...and today the existence of State of Pakistan is kinda doubtful and its future seems very dire unless Pakistani people change their attitude that they have had about everything since Britain left them about...
Which Ginan mentions that?
Imam’s development? WHAT?
I think, the notion of anything even close to an Ismailia state or country is technically, logically, politically, economically, morally, ethically, socially, intellectually, theoritically, scientifically, mathematically, literally, religiously, spiritually, culturally, and potentially just incomprehensive, impossible and undesirable as well.
Some al waezers are way too optimistic and prophetic...but are no divine authority...
A waezer named Abu Ali from Canada said in a waez that Pakistan will soon be progressing like a rocket...LOL...LMAO...and today the existence of State of Pakistan is kinda doubtful and its future seems very dire unless Pakistani people change their attitude that they have had about everything since Britain left them about...
Which Ginan mentions that?
Imam’s development? WHAT?
I think, the notion of anything even close to an Ismailia state or country is technically, logically, politically, economically, morally, ethically, socially, intellectually, theoritically, scientifically, mathematically, literally, religiously, spiritually, culturally, and potentially just incomprehensive, impossible and undesirable as well.
Last edited by Mehreen1221 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
Both MHI and his late gradfather have expressed great confidence in the destiny of Pakistan. Although the current circumstances do not reflect that, the Imam's vision is very long term and will prevail insha allah. Below are two quotes from MHI's speeches.Mehreen1221 wrote: Which Ginan mentions that?
Imam’s development? WHAT?
"You all know that My grandfather was one of the founders of Pakistan. He, His associates and His co-workers struggled mightily for the establishment of this great country. He always had the profoundest faith in the destiny of Pakistan. These views and that faith are Mine. This country is in My heart, for as you all know My beloved Grandfather was born here."(Speech at Karachi, Pakistan, August 4, 1957)
http://www.ismaili.net/speech/s570804.html
"It may be asked why I wished to establish the Aga Khan University here in Pakistan. That question may be answered by a simple analogy. If you plant a tree, you plant for future generations to enjoy its shade. But you must plant in soil which is good today, soil from which the sapling can draw the nourishment to grow to full maturity. This will be a Muslim university and Pakistan lies near the geographical centre of the Muslim ummah, a world community of the faithful which stretches as far east as Indonesia and as far west as Morocco. Pakistan is typical of many Muslim countries, with the same problems, the same needs, the same aspirations. Furthermore, it is a rising force in Islam. Though not endowed with the immense wealth of some neighbouring states, Pakistan has become a valued partner."(SPEECH AT THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE CHARTER OF THE AGA KHAN UNIVERSITY, KARACHI, PAKISTAN, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 16th 1983)
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:Pj ... =clnk&cd=3
I agree with you.Mehreen1221 wrote: I think, the notion of anything even close to an Ismailia state or country is technically, logically, politically, morally, ethically, socially, intellectually, scientifically, literally, religiously, spiritually and potentially just incomprehensive, impossible and undesirable as well.
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Mehreen1221
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I know His Highness has great appreciations/admiration and concerns for the state of Pakistan and it's people due to His family and Ismailia community links and the causes of general Muslim Ummah.
However, I think these references could probably be interpreted in the context of the occasion and could be reflecting the realities of that time or period. It may not necessarily be any kind of endorsement in the political sense rather could be just the reflections of His eagerness and aspirations on social and development commitments for Pakistan. As time changes, things change and so would the people and so forth…on the ground.
However, I think these references could probably be interpreted in the context of the occasion and could be reflecting the realities of that time or period. It may not necessarily be any kind of endorsement in the political sense rather could be just the reflections of His eagerness and aspirations on social and development commitments for Pakistan. As time changes, things change and so would the people and so forth…on the ground.
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YaAliYaMowla
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My reading of history and mass conversions in various areas leads me to believe that what was the former USSR has several million Ismailis. These areas have had Ismailis hiding and continuing to hide for a very long period of time. It is hard to come up with accurate estimates because of lack of Jamatkhanas and inaccessibility of most Ismailis to go to Didars as things work differently there (most cannot attend Didars like in the West and Indian subcontinent).
MSMS called China one of the most important Ismaili communities in memoirs so I believe that this population also numbers in millions because of the size of areas and mass conversions. There are other Ismaili communities that MSMS spoke of in memoirs that have developed in isolation but exist and those are in Yemen, Iraq, Egypt, Turkey, etc. These Ismailis are also in hiding and because of lack of JKs and high dispersion in rural areas it is very hard to come up with precise estimates.
I believe that the estimates of 15+ million are believable and as time moves forward we will come into contact with these other Ismailis more and more insha Allah. The number, in and of itself, doesnt matter to me, what matters to me is the prospect of us meeting these other Ismailis and learning from their traditions, practices, and culture, which i am very excited for.
MSMS called China one of the most important Ismaili communities in memoirs so I believe that this population also numbers in millions because of the size of areas and mass conversions. There are other Ismaili communities that MSMS spoke of in memoirs that have developed in isolation but exist and those are in Yemen, Iraq, Egypt, Turkey, etc. These Ismailis are also in hiding and because of lack of JKs and high dispersion in rural areas it is very hard to come up with precise estimates.
I believe that the estimates of 15+ million are believable and as time moves forward we will come into contact with these other Ismailis more and more insha Allah. The number, in and of itself, doesnt matter to me, what matters to me is the prospect of us meeting these other Ismailis and learning from their traditions, practices, and culture, which i am very excited for.
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Mehreen1221
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Mehreen1221
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Long Live Mother Russia!
I think the problem is that majority of the people, on the west side of the Atlantic, are mentally blind. They are given just a bunch of news channels, websites and papers to watch or read which are just in total control of their owners which are about 0.0000001 % of the total population...so they have no idea of the truth or reality of the world and have lost the simple logic and common senses over the decades...so welcome to the mass mental slavery of North America...
[Offensive language and insulting words have been removed by ADMIN]
I think the problem is that majority of the people, on the west side of the Atlantic, are mentally blind. They are given just a bunch of news channels, websites and papers to watch or read which are just in total control of their owners which are about 0.0000001 % of the total population...so they have no idea of the truth or reality of the world and have lost the simple logic and common senses over the decades...so welcome to the mass mental slavery of North America...
[Offensive language and insulting words have been removed by ADMIN]
Ismaili in Rajastan.
Admin,Admin wrote:Being an Ismaili is a matter of the soul, not of the body. Only Imam knows whose soul he calls his beloved spiritual children. Imam's saying is therefore final in this matter.
However think in this terms:
If you have been to Masyaf, you know there are 5 or 6 different types of Ismaili groups.. all believe in Imam Ismail [therefore are Ismailis] but not necessarily in the present Imam.
The Druzes are Ismailis. The Whoras - Mustealians are Ismailis. There are one million Mustealian Ismailis in saudi arabia. There is a large concentration in Yemen, also they are known as whoras in India. Druzes are in the mountains, mostly in Syria, Lebanon, Golan hights, now South America also since more then half Century. Joumblat, the leader of the Druze has previously indicated their intention of joining the main stream under the leadership of Hazar Imam. 25 years ago we had about 500 Druzes in Montreal, Canada. I don't know about other places in the Western World but they started migrating very early.
There are 4.5 millions followers of Ramdev Pir, in Rajasthan, an offshoot of Ismailis that will join back in a twinkle of the eye when the Imam decides.
In 1988, I went to Pirana, Gujrat. I met with the Mota Kaka of Imam Shahis, he told me that they are an offshot of the Fatimids. Hindus maybe trying to convert them but they know they are not Hindus but ismailis.
Few years ago I came across books by some Hindus... they looked like Bhajan books. reading them, they were countless reference to Panj Tan Pak, Shah Nizar, Alamut etc... During the SOS Khojki Conference, al Waez Salim Musa mentioned some neighbours in Toronto that used to recite our ginans, upon inquiring, they said they were Athias since Centuries. Some of them found about main stream Ismailism and few later joined back our Jamat.
Pir Shams opened 84 jk in China in his time. The population of China was small at that times. Now there are more then 50 millions Muslims, many Ismailis, still in secret. The rulers in Vietnam during Fatimid times were ismailis, our Dai went to preach very far.
In Iran, which is dominated by Ithnashris, they are not openly saying they are Ismailis but they are tons.
When I was a kid, the general belief was that there were no Ismailis left in Soviet Union because of decades upon decades of religious restriction. Soviet Union has disappeared but Ismailis are still there. How long did it take to our ex Soviet Ismailis to come in the open? Once Imam decide, all will come out.
12 millions? 15 Millions? 20 millions? who cares. Maybe there are more. maybe many will leave the Imam in our times and some day we will be less.
When the Imam was asked if he plans to increase the number of Ismaiis during his Imamat, he replied absolutely NOT! The Imam knows better.
I am surprised to read that, there are some Ismailis in Rajasthan! they believe in Ramdev Pir, are they still Ismailis? I have not heard about them when I used to live in Gujarat State which is neighbor state of Rajasthan? can you give me some detail about this sect?
By the way future of Pakistan is very bright, whatever Rai Abu Ali told in his waezs will come true one of day, that is for sure we have to wait and see.
Admin, can you or anybody tell me that how many Ismailis are still in 'Saurastra" mostly called Kathiawad in Gujarat State now a days?
research is continuing in this field of Ram Dev Pir's Ismailis
See for example:
Conversions and Shifting Identities : Ramdev Pir and the Ismailis in Rajasthan/Dominique-Sila Khan. Reprint. New Delhi, Manohar, 2003, 294 p., map, illus., (pbk). ISBN 81-7304-489-9.
Contents: Foreword. Introduction. I. Nizari Ismailism and the Nizar Panth: 1. The Ismailis in the Indian subcontinent: exchanges and confrontations. 2. Ramdev and other Rajput Pirs: the Nizari Dawa in Rajasthan. 3. Hindu and Muslim Pirs: the community fragmented. 4. Hymns and rituals : a comparative study of the Nizarpanthi and Khoja religious literatures and ceremonies. 5. Ismailism and the Harijans. II. Other forgotten branches of Ismailism: secession and dissidence: 6. Ai Mata and the Ai Panth of Bilara. 7. Jambha Pir, the Prahladvanshis and the Bishnoi Panth. 8. Jasnath, the Siddhs and the Jasnathi Sampraday. 9. The Nizari Dawa and the Nath Sampraday. 10. Ram and Rahim: Nizari Ismailism and the Sant Parampara. Conclusion. Bibliography. Indexes.
"Using a combination of ethnographic data based on the description of shrines and rituals and of popular literature, this book seeks to investigate Hindu ‘folk’ traditions in Rajasthan (especially cults associated with Ramdev, Jambha, Jasnath, Ai Mata), where the presence of Muslim elements is conspicuous. The author reaches the conclusion that the followers of these cults had originally been converted to Ismailism during the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries by missionaries acting under the direction of the central Ismaili dawa in the Multan region.
"With the decline of that central authority from the fifteenth century onwards, such communities apparently broke away from the parent body and came under the control of various Pirs and Gurus, whilst at the same time interacting with other religious groups such as the Nath Jogis and the Sants. Although they retain traces of their former Ismaili affiliation, these communities have in modern times come under increasing pressure to either adopt a more conventional Hindu identity or assimilate to Sunni or Twelver Shia Islam.
"In short, the study opens up new research prospects which are likely to alter the general landscape of its major themes: Rajasthan, popular religion, Ismailism and beyond." (jacket)
See for example:
Conversions and Shifting Identities : Ramdev Pir and the Ismailis in Rajasthan/Dominique-Sila Khan. Reprint. New Delhi, Manohar, 2003, 294 p., map, illus., (pbk). ISBN 81-7304-489-9.
Contents: Foreword. Introduction. I. Nizari Ismailism and the Nizar Panth: 1. The Ismailis in the Indian subcontinent: exchanges and confrontations. 2. Ramdev and other Rajput Pirs: the Nizari Dawa in Rajasthan. 3. Hindu and Muslim Pirs: the community fragmented. 4. Hymns and rituals : a comparative study of the Nizarpanthi and Khoja religious literatures and ceremonies. 5. Ismailism and the Harijans. II. Other forgotten branches of Ismailism: secession and dissidence: 6. Ai Mata and the Ai Panth of Bilara. 7. Jambha Pir, the Prahladvanshis and the Bishnoi Panth. 8. Jasnath, the Siddhs and the Jasnathi Sampraday. 9. The Nizari Dawa and the Nath Sampraday. 10. Ram and Rahim: Nizari Ismailism and the Sant Parampara. Conclusion. Bibliography. Indexes.
"Using a combination of ethnographic data based on the description of shrines and rituals and of popular literature, this book seeks to investigate Hindu ‘folk’ traditions in Rajasthan (especially cults associated with Ramdev, Jambha, Jasnath, Ai Mata), where the presence of Muslim elements is conspicuous. The author reaches the conclusion that the followers of these cults had originally been converted to Ismailism during the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries by missionaries acting under the direction of the central Ismaili dawa in the Multan region.
"With the decline of that central authority from the fifteenth century onwards, such communities apparently broke away from the parent body and came under the control of various Pirs and Gurus, whilst at the same time interacting with other religious groups such as the Nath Jogis and the Sants. Although they retain traces of their former Ismaili affiliation, these communities have in modern times come under increasing pressure to either adopt a more conventional Hindu identity or assimilate to Sunni or Twelver Shia Islam.
"In short, the study opens up new research prospects which are likely to alter the general landscape of its major themes: Rajasthan, popular religion, Ismailism and beyond." (jacket)
There is an interesting article on Ramdev Pir and the connection to Ismailism at:
Doctrines --> link between hinduism and ismalism
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... sc&start=0
Doctrines --> link between hinduism and ismalism
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... sc&start=0
Ya Ali Madad,
Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah has said in his farmans that on the day of judgment, 18 universes worth of Ismaili will come together. In our tariqah, the day of death is the day of judgment. Mowlana Hazir Imam in his farmans several times has said that there are 15 million Ismailis in this world (planet earth). Although, I believe Mowla has not just created this universe for plant earth only. Therefore there could be other places where Ismailis reside amongst this universe, what I am referring to is those ruhanis that are not in human form. Just something to think about...
May mowla bless you all and give you Iman-ji-salamati
Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah has said in his farmans that on the day of judgment, 18 universes worth of Ismaili will come together. In our tariqah, the day of death is the day of judgment. Mowlana Hazir Imam in his farmans several times has said that there are 15 million Ismailis in this world (planet earth). Although, I believe Mowla has not just created this universe for plant earth only. Therefore there could be other places where Ismailis reside amongst this universe, what I am referring to is those ruhanis that are not in human form. Just something to think about...
May mowla bless you all and give you Iman-ji-salamati
It is quoted in Al-Fatiha.
Karim,
Yes, there are many other universes too as per one Quranic Aayat which we all recite daily in our Dua. Al- Fatiha
We recite that
Bismillahir Rahmani Rahim: Shuru karta hu Allah ke nam se jo bada Raheman aour Rahim Hai.
Alhamdo Lillahir RABBIL AALMEEN" Tarif us parvardigar ki jo kayenate ka palanhar hai.( if there are only one Aalam then it should be quoted "Rabbul Aalam" kayenat ka palan karne vala. but in this ayat it is quoted as Rabbil Aalmeen menas more than one kayenat
AALAM: MEANS ONE KAYENAT
AALMEEN: MEANS MORE THAN ONE KAYENAT
One more proof Prophet Mohammad Rasool ( S.A.) Call and remembere as;
RAHEMTULA AALMEEN" means sari kaynate pe raham karne vaala.
Scientist still has to discover the other universal, I read once that the scientist of University of Texas has been discovered another universe around 5-10 years ago and since then I have not heard any thing about new discovery.
Yes, there are many other universes too as per one Quranic Aayat which we all recite daily in our Dua. Al- Fatiha
We recite that
Bismillahir Rahmani Rahim: Shuru karta hu Allah ke nam se jo bada Raheman aour Rahim Hai.
Alhamdo Lillahir RABBIL AALMEEN" Tarif us parvardigar ki jo kayenate ka palanhar hai.( if there are only one Aalam then it should be quoted "Rabbul Aalam" kayenat ka palan karne vala. but in this ayat it is quoted as Rabbil Aalmeen menas more than one kayenat
AALAM: MEANS ONE KAYENAT
AALMEEN: MEANS MORE THAN ONE KAYENAT
One more proof Prophet Mohammad Rasool ( S.A.) Call and remembere as;
RAHEMTULA AALMEEN" means sari kaynate pe raham karne vaala.
Scientist still has to discover the other universal, I read once that the scientist of University of Texas has been discovered another universe around 5-10 years ago and since then I have not heard any thing about new discovery.
1960, November 2: Under the auspices of the Royal Commonwealth Society at Oxford University, H.H. The Aga Khan, Mowlana Hazar Imam delivered a lecture on "Ismaili Community and its Contribution to the Commonwealth." - "The Ismailis today live in 22 different countries....Together with Russian Turkestan and Communist China, they number in all around 20 million. It is impossible for me to be more precise about the number as I do not have a community census, nor do the Governments hold national censuses in many of the states I have mentioned."