black clothes ???

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:18 pm

zeeshan30 wrote:shams-will MHI make us volunteers take off our trousers/skirts when we are performing duty at his darbar in the UK? We will never know under what circumstances MHI made mukhi take his socks off, and you know what they say about chinese whispers!

Actually - i do know the circumstances....

Shams

zeeshan30 · Post by **zeeshan30** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:31 pm

so u were there in 1964 when it happened? ok cool i dont really care anyways-this has become a petty argument

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:26 pm

zeeshan30 wrote:so u were there in 1964 when it happened? ok cool i dont really care anyways-this has become a petty argument

It hasn't actually - you've basically missed the key points of the arguement.

I don't care what you wear in jamat khana - I will not wear black in jamatkhana..and i know that there are many others that will not wear black.

Ask anyone that has sung ginan in the Huzur of the Imam or recited Tilawat - and they will tell you that a coordinator from Aiglemont flies down and teaches Adab in the Huzur of the Imam - one of the things they request is that you AVOID wearing black - as that is not the preference of the Imam.

You seem to be a student - have you studied Physics? if so...think of the color spectrum and the symbolism or the value of black - Nothing - black is VOID - Black is VACUUM.......

Black also absorbs heat and other energies...and I would recommend that you read a few books on the Faith and the significance of Auras amongst other things before you can continue this discussion.

Shams

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:50 am

zeeshan30 wrote:in my opinion, you people are too "rigid" and i thought sunni's were bad! we are supposed to be more broad minded than them we will have to agree to disagree...! i wear my volunteer uniform with pride; it does not bother me that my trousers are black there is no blackness in my heart and thats what matters-and Maula's knows it! period.

Why you used to thought Sunnis as bad ! Being good Ismaili u should not think some one bad on the basis that they are Sunni, Shia or non muslim.

How will you feel that there is no blackness in heart if heart feels pride to do na farmani of Imam !

I request you to read the previous pages of discussions and you will get more idea about why not to wear black dresses with references of Farmans of different Imams, Ginans and Hadiths of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

zeeshan30 · Post by **zeeshan30** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:17 pm

i did not call sunni's bad...i was merely referring to them being "rigid and narrow minded" which is bad... the people in this forum appear equally as rigid if not worse (just my opinion) the fact that this argument was raised in the first place means you people are conscious about it. this is something which never even crossed my mind to be honest so that proves i have no malice/wrong intention in my heart about wearing black items of clothing. we are in Maula's huzur everytime we are in JK...so...? and we will again be in Maula's physical huzur when he visits in the UK. i will let you guys know when we get told to whip our "black" volunteer trousers off at padrahmni! i think Maulana Sultan Mohd Shah asked ladies not to wear black dresses in JK cos they attract the wrong type of attention! p.s. i have seen guys reciting tilawat with black skull caps on in front of maula (and of course Maula wears his black hat!)

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:06 pm

zeeshan30 wrote:i did not call sunni's bad...i was merely referring to them being "rigid and narrow minded" which is bad... the people in this forum appear equally as rigid if not worse (just my opinion) the fact that this argument was raised in the first place means you people are conscious about it. this is something which never even crossed my mind to be honest so that proves i have no malice/wrong intention in my heart about wearing black items of clothing. we are in Maula's huzur everytime we are in JK...so...? and we will again be in Maula's physical huzur when he visits in the UK. i will let you guys know when we get told to whip our "black" volunteer trousers off at padrahmni! i think Maulana Sultan Mohd Shah asked ladies not to wear black dresses in JK cos they attract the wrong type of attention! p.s. i have seen guys reciting tilawat with black skull caps on in front of maula (and of course Maula wears his black hat!)

And Maula wears shoes inside Jamat Khana - based on this arguement you should be allowed to wear shoes inside Jamat Khana as well.

Shams

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:22 pm

As you said, Such thing never crossed your mind, so now you should think about it.
In Ginan Moman Chetamni verse 620, Syed Imam Shah says : " Do not look at what Ali does, but obey what He says, for as the times
will change, Ali's actions may be beyond your comprehension."

The thing is no matter how much broad minded we are, but we have no right to make ammendmends in teachings of our faith. What will you say if some Ismaili eat pork intentionally and will say it does'nt matter as he/she has not hurt or given harm to any one by eating pork and the heart is clean with no bad intentions.

From your post it appears that you think that Farmans, Ginans and Hadiths which tells not to wear black dresses are may be out dated or has some esoteric meaning or were applicable for particular period of time.
Now I request you to really study all of them with open mind ! Why not to wear black dresses in Jamat Khana, in the light of Farmans of different Imams, in light of Ginans and sayings of the Prophet (Pbuh) and also from Scientific point of view. Then hopefully you will have better understanding and clarification of this issue.

sherali786 · Post by **sherali786** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:59 pm

star_munir wrote:As you said, Such thing never crossed your mind, so now you should think about it.
In Ginan Moman Chetamni verse 620, Syed Imam Shah says : " Do not look at what Ali does, but obey what He says, for as the times
will change, Ali's actions may be beyond your comprehension."

I agree with you. Your absolutely right. People even raise such questions with intercast marriages. Its sad. They always take a different meaning out of what imam says and does.
Hes the IMAM...We dont even follow a single word of our religion and you people call yourself ismailis.

Imam says..he is still alive...And everyday is a kushyali for us. Why wear black? Gothic people symbolizes color black. We have our father..our IMAM...Then why wearing depressing clothes to khane?
Jamat Khana is for praying not some type of fashion show or anything. People have made khane as a social gathering. Its just pathetic...And on top of that they argue with whats wrong wearing black and what.
When you enter khane..angels greet you...and bless you. If you wear black with also symbolizes Evil...They don't greet you and bless you.
Its good you dress up with all bright colors..Its like..your sharing your hapiness.

Have you heard of that ginan? Suno suno
Let me post a last stanza of that ginan...and its so true.

aalam koee bujhe naahee(n), sab jaahel ho jaave jee;

elam ku(n) koee bujhe naahee(n),

sab leebaas kapadde pahechhaane jee;

reshamee kapadde pahen-kar aave, use khudaa kar maane jee;

ye dase baateeaa(n) sahee kar bujho, cheto bhaaee saveraa jee;

duneeaa me(n) se barakat mohobat sharam esee dase baateeaa(n) chaleeyaa(n),

tab keeaamat kee neesaanee jee;

peer shamas kala(n)dar eeyu(n) kaheaa,

aayaa kaaem shaahaa kaa vaaraa jee..........

Translation:

No learned man will understand, and all will become ignorant. No one will understand knowledge, but all will recognise just clothes and dress. They will consider the one who comes dressed in silken clothes to be God.
Understand properly these ten things, and take heed in good time, o brother. When the ten things, such as prosperity, love and modesty have entirely departed from the world, then the sign of the Resurrection appears. Peer Shams the Qalandar says: the time of the Lord of the Resurrection has come.

feri · Post by **feri** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:29 am

ok..if black is so forbidden, then how come during didar/darbar the mukhi/kamadiasahebs wear black topi?

also in certain JKs, there r occasions when the entire youth decides to dress in black..how come mukhi/kamadiasahebs dont object? shldnt they object as they r the rep of MHI afterall?

and regarding MHI asking a mukhi to remove his black socks..well, maybe his socks were dirty or something..and just coincidince that it was black

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:05 am

feri wrote:ok..if black is so forbidden, then how come during didar/darbar the mukhi/kamadiasahebs wear black topi?

also in certain JKs, there r occasions when the entire youth decides to dress in black..how come mukhi/kamadiasahebs dont object? shldnt they object as they r the rep of MHI afterall?

and regarding MHI asking a mukhi to remove his black socks..well, maybe his socks were dirty or something..and just coincidince that it was black

The words MHI used were MUKHI you are wearing BLACK inside my JAMATKHANA?

Remember those topis are given to the M/Ks by MHI...it goes back to ..do as the Imam tells you..not as he does.

Shams

sherali786 · Post by **sherali786** » Sat May 17, 2008 6:07 pm

I appreciate the person above...good job ! Do what imam says ...dont try to find excuses...would you disrespect your parents like that ? Think over it.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:47 pm

feri wrote:ok..if black is so forbidden, then how come during didar/darbar the mukhi/kamadiasahebs wear black topi?

also in certain JKs, there r occasions when the entire youth decides to dress in black..how come mukhi/kamadiasahebs dont object? shldnt they object as they r the rep of MHI afterall?

and regarding MHI asking a mukhi to remove his black socks..well, maybe his socks were dirty or something..and just coincidince that it was black

There is a current farman that is available in the PanjeBhenu Majlis farmans where it states I don't want you to wear black.

Please refer to that farman - and recall our Baiyats.

Shams

feri · Post by **feri** » Sun May 18, 2008 12:19 am

ShamsB wrote:
feri wrote:ok..if black is so forbidden, then how come during didar/darbar the mukhi/kamadiasahebs wear black topi?

also in certain JKs, there r occasions when the entire youth decides to dress in black..how come mukhi/kamadiasahebs dont object? shldnt they object as they r the rep of MHI afterall?

and regarding MHI asking a mukhi to remove his black socks..well, maybe his socks were dirty or something..and just coincidince that it was black
The words MHI used were MUKHI you are wearing BLACK inside my JAMATKHANA?

Remember those topis are given to the M/Ks by MHI...it goes back to ..do as the Imam tells you..not as he does.

Shams

oops i missed reading that part.

and now since u say there is a recent farman rgd this, then that shld end this discussion.

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Mon May 26, 2008 11:24 pm

DELETED

asifmomin1 · Post by **asifmomin1** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:23 pm

Ya Ali Madad brothers and sisters,

"Jyaare tamee maanas ne juoo choo tyaree teni shakal jovaamaa aave chee, haath, pugg, moodhu, aankhon, sarveiy dithaa maa aave chee, punn Rooh dithaa maa aavtoo nathin; tamein Rooh neiy jovaane tajweej karoo."

I have nothing to say except quote the above farman made by our beloved Imam in his 48th Jomaa. Imam wants us to FOCUS on ROOH and nothing else, but here, let alone body we are squabbling on a trivial topic of outfit.

Mawla has also made it clear in his Farman that

"Aa je saghlaa farmaan thai chey temaa tamaaraa Rooh noo chuhtkoo thai te padoo"

In my opinion we need to re-examine our approach towards our faith.

Please forgive me if I offended anyone in anyways.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:40 pm

asifmomin1 wrote:Ya Ali Madad brothers and sisters,

"Jyaare tamee maanas ne juoo choo tyaree teni shakal jovaamaa aave chee, haath, pugg, moodhu, aankhon, sarveiy dithaa maa aave chee, punn Rooh dithaa maa aavtoo nathin; tamein Rooh neiy jovaane tajweej karoo."

I have nothing to say except quote the above farman made by our beloved Imam in his 48th Jomaa. Imam wants us to FOCUS on ROOH and nothing else, but here, let alone body we are squabbling on a trivial topic of outfit.

Mawla has also made it clear in his Farman that

"Aa je saghlaa farmaan thai chey temaa tamaaraa Rooh noo chuhtkoo thai te padoo"

In my opinion we need to re-examine our approach towards our faith.

Please forgive me if I offended anyone in anyways.

Our faith is based upon one thing and one thing only - the farmanbardari to the Imam - at times we follow without questioning - Ismailism has no choice - it is a true dictatorship - for lack of a better word, where we've submitted ourselves to the whims and will of our mursheed. There is a BUK farman of MSMS where he quotes Hafiz : "if your mursheed were to tell you to say your salat on a wine soaked musallah - do so..for you know not what he is aware of."
Think of it this way - there are many farmans made...we have to follow them to instill discipline in them.
If we aren't able to follow a simple farman about what to wear and what not to wear - next we'll have people talking about not being able to do bandagi between 4-5 am and changing that time - oh wait..that's already being discussed...

Read the Farmans present in the Panje Bhenu Majlis book - they are farmans that are still in circulation and current where the Imam forbids us to wear black - simple as that...
AME DIVAS KAHIYE TO DIVAS ANE RAAT KAHIYE TO RAAT...

Shams

asifmomin1 · Post by **asifmomin1** » Wed May 28, 2008 9:47 am

Ya Ali Madad brothers and sisters,

ShamsB wrote
Our faith is based upon one thing and one thing only - the farmanbardari to the Imam

Thanks a lot brother Shams for enhancing my understanding. I Completely agree on that. Matter on fact, I would like to take it one step further; Farmanbardari = Ismailism; period.

On the above note we must also make sure that we are Ismaili to begin with. Mowla has given us a guage to determine for ourself whether we are Ismaili or not and I'll quote it below;

"Tamaaraa maa ghahnaa aivaa chei jevoo kaheiy chee ke ameiy Ismaili chihyee, punn Ismaili din shu chee aneiy taynee khubee shu chee te thee tewoo agnyaan chee; tewoo naadaan chee"

"Amaaraa farmaan dhyaan maa nahin leiy te murkh naadaan chee; nadaan din noo dushman chee"

"Tameiy kahoo choo keiy amoo Moman chiyee, punn amoo puchyeiy chiyee keiy janaawar kartaa kayoo hunnar tamaaraa maa wadhaareiy chee"

Boils down to one fact "Farmaan maano too feiraa taleiy"

Please forgive me if I offended anyone in anyways.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Wed May 28, 2008 5:05 pm

asifmomin1 wrote:Ya Ali Madad brothers and sisters,

ShamsB wrote
Our faith is based upon one thing and one thing only - the farmanbardari to the Imam

Thanks a lot brother Shams for enhancing my understanding. I Completely agree on that. Matter on fact, I would like to take it one step further; Farmanbardari = Ismailism; period.

On the above note we must also make sure that we are Ismaili to begin with. Mowla has given us a guage to determine for ourself whether we are Ismaili or not and I'll quote it below;

"Tamaaraa maa ghahnaa aivaa chei jevoo kaheiy chee ke ameiy Ismaili chihyee, punn Ismaili din shu chee aneiy taynee khubee shu chee te thee tewoo agnyaan chee; tewoo naadaan chee"

"Amaaraa farmaan dhyaan maa nahin leiy te murkh naadaan chee; nadaan din noo dushman chee"

"Tameiy kahoo choo keiy amoo Moman chiyee, punn amoo puchyeiy chiyee keiy janaawar kartaa kayoo hunnar tamaaraa maa wadhaareiy chee"

Boils down to one fact "Farmaan maano too feiraa taleiy"

Please forgive me if I offended anyone in anyways.

Right - so as per this..WE FOLLOW ALL FARMANS OF THE IMAM....WHETHER THEY PERTAIN TO IBADAT OR TO NOT WEARING BLACK CLOTHES IN JAMATKHANA...

You CAN NOT pick and choose which to follow - you follow all unconditionally.....

If we can't follow simple farmans like attendance in Jamat khana or not wearing black clothes - how are we going to follow complex farmans relating to Ibadat?

Shams

asifmomin1 · Post by **asifmomin1** » Thu May 29, 2008 9:50 am

Ya Ali Madad brothers and sisters,

"Badan naa mooman ane Rooh naa mooman"

"Badan ne joonaar budd parast chee"

"Zahir nu saghlu duniyaa ne lagtu cheiy, baatun joshoo too tamaaraa kaam thashaiy"

"Hakikati deen dil ni andar paalvaanoo cheiy"

"Aa be waato chee, banneiynaa vichharoo judaa judaa chee, aa kitaab, rozaa, namaaz, ane bandagi ne chhaheiy chee; te umaid aazadi ni raakheiy chee. "

Does that ring a bell? Ours is an individual faith, with an individual connection to our Mursheed. Every one is entitled to an individual interpretation, understanding, and opinion. As Mowla has said, "Aamaaraa farmaan wachwaanee aneiy teneiy mainaa kadhwaani je koi manaa kareiy chee te deen noo dushman chee." We can all disagree respectfully and at the same time discuss a topic in a constructive manner.
I am really glad and proud to discover so many Ismaili brothers and sisters who are so willing to share their immense wealth of knowledge on various forums. As Mowla has said,

"Je looko aye potaana majhab visheiy maahiti melawvani naim rakhee chee teyonaiy ane jeoo aa baabat maa bijaaoneiy sahaay kare chee teooneiy amoo amaara vahaal bharyaa dua ashish farmaawiya chiyye."

Hey guys, by the way, on the main page, Prince Amyn Muhammad is seen wearing a black polo shirt, lol, just kidding

Please forgive me if I offended anyone in anyways.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Thu May 29, 2008 12:53 pm

asifmomin1 wrote:Ya Ali Madad brothers and sisters,

"Badan naa mooman ane Rooh naa mooman"

"Badan ne joonaar budd parast chee"

"Zahir nu saghlu duniyaa ne lagtu cheiy, baatun joshoo too tamaaraa kaam thashaiy"

"Hakikati deen dil ni andar paalvaanoo cheiy"

"Aa be waato chee, banneiynaa vichharoo judaa judaa chee, aa kitaab, rozaa, namaaz, ane bandagi ne chhaheiy chee; te umaid aazadi ni raakheiy chee. "

Does that ring a bell? Ours is an individual faith, with an individual connection to our Mursheed. Every one is entitled to an individual interpretation, understanding, and opinion. As Mowla has said, "Aamaaraa farmaan wachwaanee aneiy teneiy mainaa kadhwaani je koi manaa kareiy chee te deen noo dushman chee." We can all disagree respectfully and at the same time discuss a topic in a constructive manner.
I am really glad and proud to discover so many Ismaili brothers and sisters who are so willing to share their immense wealth of knowledge on various forums. As Mowla has said,

"Je looko aye potaana majhab visheiy maahiti melawvani naim rakhee chee teyonaiy ane jeoo aa baabat maa bijaaoneiy sahaay kare chee teooneiy amoo amaara vahaal bharyaa dua ashish farmaawiya chiyye."

Hey guys, by the way, on the main page, Prince Amyn Muhammad is seen wearing a black polo shirt, lol, just kidding

Please forgive me if I offended anyone in anyways.

Yes and Hazar Imam wears shoes inside Jamat Khana - should we?

Every faith has it's disciplines - you can't follow the faith if you can't follow the disciplines and you can't follow this faith by selecting which farmans to follow and which not to follow. The black clothes farman is a current farman; thus we are all bound to follow it..whether we are spiritually advanced or not ~ just like the farman to say our dua 3x a day.

Shams

asifmomin1 · Post by **asifmomin1** » Thu May 29, 2008 4:54 pm

Ya Ali Madad brother Shams and my other brothers and sisters;

Nobody is denying to maintain discipline in Jamatkhana, all I'm trying to convey is that we should not get judgemental about others. We must only speak for ourself. Sage Valmiki, who wrote Ramayana was a ducait most of his life, until the time came when he heard the true message and his life changed for good. Per Mowla's instruction all we should do is "Naanaa motaa sarveiy neiy amaaraa farmaan nee yaadi aapta rehjoo." In my opinion what that means is that without putting stuff in our words we should try to convey our point by referring to Mowla's Farmaan, to avoid unneccesary arguments and frictions and then let that person think over it.

As Mowla said in his 48th Jomaa;

"Koi punn mooman athwaa maanas noo insaaf karwoo ae tamaaru kaam nathin"

"Insaan jyaa sudhee aa duniyaa maa chee tyaa sudhee te school maa shikhnaar vidyarthee maafak chee"

"Tamaaraamaa ghanaa aivaa chee jeiy bijaaoneiy jooveiy chee, tamaraiy teim nahin karvu joiyaiy"

In one Farman Mowla in his 48th Jomaa has cited an example of Ummar Khyyaam and I'll quote it below,

"Ummar Khyyam ek Sunni maanas sharyati kaazi hatoo, teinaa haath maa kitaab hatee, haath pugg dhowaanee nakaame waatoo kartoo hato"

As we all know, haath pugg dhowaa (wazu) is one of the basic tenet (sunnah) of Sunni Islam, just like Dua is for us, and Ummar Khyyam being a Sunni Muslim was following just that, but Mowla still termed is as "nakaame." What is he trying to tell us here is for each one of us to interpret and determine.

I still put a lot of weight and urge you guys to think on the below line from a Farmaan of our beloved Hazar Imam in his 48th Jomaa,

" Aa je saghlaa farmaan thai temaa tamaaraa Rooh no chutkoo thai te padoo"

My dear brother Shams, as for Hazar Imam wearing shoes in Jamatkhana and Prince Amyn Muhammad wearing black polo shirt...hmm... sorry to say, but I respectfully disagree with your analogy, may be I completely missed your point; If I did, I apologize for it.

Please forgive me if I offended anyone in anyways.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Thu May 29, 2008 6:41 pm

asifmomin1 wrote:Ya Ali Madad brother Shams and my other brothers and sisters;

Nobody is denying to maintain discipline in Jamatkhana, all I'm trying to convey is that we should not get judgemental about others. We must only speak for ourself. Sage Valmiki, who wrote Ramayana was a ducait most of his life, until the time came when he heard the true message and his life changed for good. Per Mowla's instruction all we should do is "Naanaa motaa sarveiy neiy amaaraa farmaan nee yaadi aapta rehjoo." In my opinion what that means is that without putting stuff in our words we should try to convey our point by referring to Mowla's Farmaan, to avoid unneccesary arguments and frictions and then let that person think over it.

As Mowla said in his 48th Jomaa;

"Koi punn mooman athwaa maanas noo insaaf karwoo ae tamaaru kaam nathin"

"Insaan jyaa sudhee aa duniyaa maa chee tyaa sudhee te school maa shikhnaar vidyarthee maafak chee"

"Tamaaraamaa ghanaa aivaa chee jeiy bijaaoneiy jooveiy chee, tamaraiy teim nahin karvu joiyaiy"

In one Farman Mowla in his 48th Jomaa has cited an example of Ummar Khyyaam and I'll quote it below,

"Ummar Khyyam ek Sunni maanas sharyati kaazi hatoo, teinaa haath maa kitaab hatee, haath pugg dhowaanee nakaame waatoo kartoo hato"

As we all know, haath pugg dhowaa (wazu) is one of the basic tenet (sunnah) of Sunni Islam, just like Dua is for us, and Ummar Khyyam being a Sunni Muslim was following just that, but Mowla still termed is as "nakaame." What is he trying to tell us here is for each one of us to interpret and determine.

I still put a lot of weight and urge you guys to think on the below line from a Farmaan of our beloved Hazar Imam in his 48th Jomaa,

" Aa je saghlaa farmaan thai temaa tamaaraa Rooh no chutkoo thai te padoo"

My dear brother Shams, as for Hazar Imam wearing shoes in Jamatkhana and Prince Amyn Muhammad wearing black polo shirt...hmm... sorry to say, but I respectfully disagree with your analogy, may be I completely missed your point; If I did, I apologize for it.

Please forgive me if I offended anyone in anyways.

You've missed the point totally - i'd suggest reading the whole thread.

It isn't about discipline in jamatkhana - but discipline within the faith..the practise of the faith.

We're flogging a dead horse..

Shams

asifmomin1 · Post by **asifmomin1** » Fri May 30, 2008 3:11 pm

Ya Ali Madad brother Shams

ShamsB wrote: We're flogging a dead horse

I guess you are right; this discussion isn't taking us anywhere. After reading all the threads, per your suggestion, I think your points make more sense in the context of this topic. I apologize for boarding a running train.

Nevertheless, I would like to humbly request everyone reading this post to make it a practice of reading at least one Farman a day. If that's not possible, just read one paragraph a day, and even if that's too much, one line a day should be a manageable task for most of us.

As Mowla has reiterated

"Ek Ek shabd maa ghanaa ghanaa bheid aneiy khubiyoon samaayeli chee"

"Ek Ek liti hazaar liti baraabar chee"

"Farmaan padoo tyaareiy vichaar karoo, aa taraf punn vichaar karoo aneiy peli taraf punn vichaar karoo"

"Ghanu Ghanu vaachshoo, tyaareiy thoodi gahni khabar padshaiy"

"Amaaraa Farmaan vaachho, sambhloo, aneiy vichaar karoo, jeim ke Isa khudaa maa fanaa thayaa hataa"

Based on the above lines, taking Farmans only at their face value and assuming that the literal meaning is the only meaning would be, in my opinion, a grave mistake. It would not be in line with the intellectual tradition of Shia Islam, as in my opinion, reading any text not just Farmans, literally, does not require any thinking.

Brother Shams, as with all your posts, your views on this forum were very educative and I thank you for that.

The above ideas, apart from the quoted Farmans are my personal opinions (and I know I could be completely wrong.)

Please forgive me if I offended anyone in anyways.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:06 pm

Speaking about his enemies and the enemies of Ahle-Bait Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said "The sign of our enemies will be that they will wear black clothes." Black was also color of Abbasids during their caliphate. (Source: Ismaili Tariqah by Abualy)

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed May 27, 2009 9:14 am

Specially in North America I noticed that more than 50% Jamati members are wearing 'BLACK SUITS' in Jamat Khana on Friday, Chand Raat and other religious occasions, I heard a waez yesterday that wearing BLACK clothes in Khane is forbidden by our Imam and also quoted in Quran that angels does not come close to the person who wearing Black clothes during prayer? Till last Friday I was wearing black suit ( I was uanware about the forbidden that time) but now I am confussed what should I need to do now? can I wear black clothes or not in Khane? Any right answer for my querry.

TheMaw · Post by **TheMaw** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:33 am

agakhani wrote:Specially in North America I noticed that more than 50% Jamati members are wearing 'BLACK SUITS' in Jamat Khana on Friday, Chand Raat and other religious occasions, I heard a waez yesterday that wearing BLACK clothes in Khane is forbidden by our Imam and also quoted in Quran that angels does not come close to the person who wearing Black clothes during prayer? Till last Friday I was wearing black suit ( I was uanware about the forbidden that time) but now I am confussed what should I need to do now? can I wear black clothes or not in Khane? Any right answer for my querry.

Abualy's Ismaili Tariqah observes both that it is against Ismaili tradition to wear black and cites a 1920 statement by Imam Sultan Muhammadshah against black clothes in the khane. (He was also chastising them for wearing expensive clothing.) A mu'min wears simple, clean and decent clothing.

So yeah, no miniskirts, no "banana hammocks" and no black clothing.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:50 am

http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation. ... ng-colors/

1. Introduction on how different colours have spiritual effect on us

We all make choices on a daily basis with regard to colour. An example is choosing the colour of the clothes that we will wear for the day. From time to time we may need to choose the colour of the next set of bed linen that we purchase. Sometimes we have to choose the colour of paint for the walls in our home.

Through spiritual research, we have found that depending on the colour we choose (be it clothes or our surroundings), we will be affected accordingly at a spiritual level. In this article, we share some of our spiritual research on the many ways colours affect us so that our readers are better equipped to make decisions that will enhance their lives.

2. How different colours affect us spiritually?

The entire Universe, at a subtle intangible level, is made up of three subtle-components of Sattva, Raja and Tama. We have explained this in detail on our website and urge you to familiarise yourself with this concept, so as to gain a better understanding of this article.

Colours are also categorised as sāttvik, rājasik or tāmasik depending on their predominant subtle-components. Sattva stands for ‘spiritual purity’ while Raja and Tama stand for ‘action’ and ‘spiritual ignorance’ respectively. When we wear clothes that are of sattvik colours, it helps us with our spiritual practice, while colours that are Raja-Tama in nature are detrimental towards making spiritual progress. Wearing clothes that have a Raja-Tama predominance increases the negative spiritual vibrations around us. Hence we are also more likely to attract negative energies as they too are Raja-Tama predominant.

The following is a list of colours and their effect on our spiritual state. When a colour is described as being ‘Helpful’, as mentioned in the chart below, it means that the colour helps to attract spiritually positive vibrations and repel negative vibrations. ‘Harmful’ indicates the ability to attract negative vibrations whilst simultaneously alienating us from spiritually positive vibrations.

http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation. ... ng-colors/

As you can see from the chart above, colours such as white, yellow and blue assist in increasing the spiritual purity around us. The colour black on the other hand, has harmful vibrations which not only attract negative energies but repel any positive spiritual energy.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:52 am

shivaathervedi wrote:To day ie, on Sep 2, 2016, on Heritage front page I saw photo of Hazar Imam in BLACK ATTIRE at time of Didar in Karachi, October 2000. Is the black attire allowed for Ismailis even in khane though MSMS banned it. Any comments.

Generally in Ismailism we do not follow what the Imam does but what he tells us to do. He is not a role model for us.

MSMS writes in his Memoirs about the passing away of King George:

"I am deeply touched to hear the terrible news of the death of the KingEmperor. I have decided to stop all activities in connection with my Golden Jubilee celebrations, except the purely religious rites. We are in deep mourning. I myself will wear black clothes, and my people will wear their national mourning dress. The King-Emperor was not only a great ruler, but he was in the true sense a great man. His Majesty was always most kind to me personally. I am sure that the new King-Emperor will, with his knowledge of the world and of the whole Empire, be a worthy successor to Queen Victoria, to King Edward and to King George."

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:31 am

shivaathervedi wrote:Imam does not have to follow Sirat e Mustaqeem because his farmans are Sirat e Mustaqeem for followers. I belong to young generation of 21st century and not living in 12th century blindfolded.
Followers follow the leader and leaders set example for followers.

In Ismailism as per our Du'a Imams are pure (1st part). They do not need Siratal Mustaqeem to purify themselves. As per discussion of this thread, black colour has harmful effects but the Imams being pure are not effected by time as per Ginan verse:

Eji Nisi jal hoveto kuchh kaar na aave
Pir-ne farmaayaa bandaa sohi kamaave.. so allaah. 2

If one is as pure as water, he is not effected by time. He acts accrding to the Farmans of the Pir.

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/3812

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:35 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:To day ie, on Sep 2, 2016, on Heritage front page I saw photo of Hazar Imam in BLACK ATTIRE at time of Didar in Karachi, October 2000. Is the black attire allowed for Ismailis even in khane though MSMS banned it. Any comments.
Generally in Ismailism we do not follow what the Imam does but what he tells us to do. He is not a role model for us.

MSMS writes in his Memoirs about the passing away of King George:

"I am deeply touched to hear the terrible news of the death of the KingEmperor. I have decided to stop all activities in connection with my Golden Jubilee celebrations, except the purely religious rites. We are in deep mourning. I myself will wear black clothes, and my people will wear their national mourning dress. The King-Emperor was not only a great ruler, but he was in the true sense a great man. His Majesty was always most kind to me personally. I am sure that the new King-Emperor will, with his knowledge of the world and of the whole Empire, be a worthy successor to Queen Victoria, to King Edward and to King George."

You wrote," He (Imam) is not a role model for us."
Question is," Is he a role model for non Ismailis or human beings?"
In my opinion he is a role model for us in charity works, he is a role model in practical pluralism, he is a role model in ethical values, he is role model in calmness, coolness, and patience and so on.
A person wearing black attire and recites Du'a humbly is better than a person who wears multi color dress and does not say Du'a.

www.ismaili.net

black clothes ???

can I wear black suit?

Re: can I wear black suit?