Ya Aly Madad Everyone,
Hope everyone is doing ok. I have a question I would like to be discussed here
ALLAH v/s NAME OF ALLAH.
what are the similarities and differences if any and why?
Hope it stimulates deep contemplation
Ya Aly Madad
Shams
ALLAH v/s NAME OF ALLAH
COME ON PEOPLE
Come on people.
Give me some feedback.
Give me some feedback.
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star_munir
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alinizar313
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Re: ALLAH v/s NAME OF ALLAH
Shamsu, It is not clear what do you mean by name of Allah. Anyhow I am trying to put some light on it. " Khuda" is used for God in persian while Allah is said in Arabic. In arabic the word "LA" means nothing and then we put "Al" before it to signify its glory as 'al' is normally used with the name of king. Just like we use 'Al' before our Imams in fatmid period as a ruler of that time.shamsu wrote:Ya Aly Madad Everyone,
Hope everyone is doing ok. I have a question I would like to be discussed here
ALLAH v/s NAME OF ALLAH.
what are the similarities and differences if any and why?
Hope it stimulates deep contemplation
Ya Aly Madad
Shams
Naam Nirinjan ki dau bhati.
Ek jaati dooji sifati
Utam ismaiy Jaati ( Si herfi) I couldn't mention the exact wordings.
So there are two categories of His Name. One is Zaati i,e His personal name or His essence and is "ALLAH". Second one is Sifati i,e His attributes and that is His 99 Names. God is beyond our thought and imagination. If we think of God , we never reach to Him. Know Allah by Allah. "Khaliq shabad khaliq shabad pichhane" (Ginan ). Nothing (LA) means Allah that is why we use the Word "Allah" As His Zaati Name. " Jiyare kaain notu tiyare mowla Murtaza Ali e nanno saroop dharan kariyo hetoo." (K.I.M 1)Now the question arises what is the object of these Sifati names.
Love (Ishq) play a vital role in spiritual journey and untill we do not see the Wajud (form), we can't make love or it does not come into play. Therefore we take the assistance from His attributes ( 99 Names) doing His Hamd-o-Sana, Dua or Namaz, praising, TOOHINTOO, trying to be like Him (by having its attributes in our Zaat). But we Ismaili are very lucky that we have Sut Shabd ( Ism-e-Azam) and that is God Himself and the only function of Bol is nothing but to enrich with Love.
"Amaiy temara mataiy Ishq Ichhiyaiy chhiye taithi saaro rusto temnaiy daikhadiye chhiye."
Aad thaki ek soon nipaya, taraiy soon ma thi shabad nipaya (Imam Shah)
We will do seperate discussion on "ISHQ"
Re: ALLAH v/s NAME OF ALLAH
[quote="alinizar313]
Aad thaki ek soon nipaya, taraiy soon ma thi shabad nipaya (Imam Shah)
We will do seperate discussion on "ISHQ"[/quote]
The following verse from Bhraham Prakash illuminates this concept.
teen maas rattanaa beech rahyaa, peechhe naam brahmaa so kahyaa.4
If you maintain constant remembrance for at least a period of three months, it becomes the word of "Brahmaa".
[The "BOL" given by the Satguru has a pronounciable sound which eventually becomes "non- pronounciable". It develops into "Divine sound vibrations" and becomes "Ajampia Jaap"(non pronounciable word) as said by Peer Sadardeen in some other geenaan. After three months of constant practice, the "BOL" develops into a "Divine Sound" or "Primordial Sound". This primordial sound existed long ago before the invention of any language and could only be communicated to people by Haazar Imaam and through Him by His appointed successor. According to most religions, long before the creation, there was only "Primordial Light" and from the light came the "Word" and the "Word" was "God". After three months of constant practice, one does realise the significance of the "BOL", as explained by Peer below.]
Aad thaki ek soon nipaya, taraiy soon ma thi shabad nipaya (Imam Shah)
We will do seperate discussion on "ISHQ"[/quote]
The following verse from Bhraham Prakash illuminates this concept.
teen maas rattanaa beech rahyaa, peechhe naam brahmaa so kahyaa.4
If you maintain constant remembrance for at least a period of three months, it becomes the word of "Brahmaa".
[The "BOL" given by the Satguru has a pronounciable sound which eventually becomes "non- pronounciable". It develops into "Divine sound vibrations" and becomes "Ajampia Jaap"(non pronounciable word) as said by Peer Sadardeen in some other geenaan. After three months of constant practice, the "BOL" develops into a "Divine Sound" or "Primordial Sound". This primordial sound existed long ago before the invention of any language and could only be communicated to people by Haazar Imaam and through Him by His appointed successor. According to most religions, long before the creation, there was only "Primordial Light" and from the light came the "Word" and the "Word" was "God". After three months of constant practice, one does realise the significance of the "BOL", as explained by Peer below.]
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alinizar313
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This is an interesting discussion! Yes by Soon I mean the Soon as in "Aad thaki ek Soon" and that derived from SoonKaal.alinizar313 wrote:Karim bhai, Can u please throw some more light on "Primordial Sound" and "Primordial Light"? Are you talking about Soon derived from Soonkarl. Can you relate it with Ishq.
We entered into a very fruitful discussion.
After the experience of "Ajampia Jaamp" one experiences real LOVE and ISHK as explained by Peer Shamsh in the following verses of Bhraham Prakash.
naam letaa bhayaa prem prakaashaa, tab upajyaa manvishvaas......5
By taking the name, light of "love" starts shining in one's mind and deep faith "IMAAN" or "CONTENTMENT" gets generated.[Love and faith become one as without the one the other cannot exist.]
kaho prem laksha kesaare bhaai, gupta bhed kahu(n) pragatta bataai6
Brother, you may ask, what is this Light of Love? Let me tell you openly the secret.
gad gad laheree premakee utthe, taa(n) beech sheeree mukhakee chhutte.........................................................7
There will gush forth waves of love in your mind and the divine nector will flow freely into your mouth.
hot gal galee sukhme agaahee, taa(n) beech manvaa rahyaa samaai.8
Happiness(or bliss) bubbles and your mind gets enveloped into it.
chale tratt jahaa(n) premkee dhaaraa, pivat prem hovat matvaalaa9
When there is such a flow of love, the drinker becomes drunk with love. He becomes "mast"(like mast fakir).
chhakee kar bakeeyaa anbhaya baanee, dur paho(n)chekee yehee neeshaanee.....................................................10
"Chhakee" means drunk or divinely intoxicated. "Chhakee" gets so drunk with love that he fearlessly recites his experience. This is a sign that he has reached far. In other words he has made progress. [In the present time the Imaam has discouraged people to articulate this experience.]
brahm sukhakee kyaa kahu(n) vaddaai, maheemaa adheek kahee nav jaai
..........11
How can I describe this happiness of Brahmaa? This bliss? It's importance is beyond words and is undescribable.
pothee pataraa vaa(n)chee sunaave, vaa(n) sukh kee gatee ve nahee paave..........................................................12
No amount of reading of books(scriptures, philosophy books e.t.c.) can give you the experience of this happiness, also no sermons can describe the experience of this bliss.
Remember one thing, Allah has no bounds anything. If you read Hazar Imams Batul-Kayal firmans you will see he constantly says "He who is above all else" You can not attribute anything to Allah. Becuse the minute you do that, you are confining Him in the imagination of your mind. So for convinence we call our God Allah. Because when people ask you who is your God what will you say Allah rite you wont say we cant give him a name becuase he is above that? The 99 names of Allah are atributes of Allah but that too, when you say the Most Beinficent what do you mean by that.....and remember what evert you think of Allah is above that. There are no words to describe Allah. Etleast this is my view of things.
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alinizar313
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No need to confuse between the word "Allah", God and "Khuda". Allah is in Arabic and Khuda is an persian (Farsi) word. La means nothing in Arabic.It is just relative term. As we say "it is above all" means human eye can't see, human mind can't perceive or think and when it happens then we say it is nothing. When you say that we can't reach Him, then you are wrong as well as right. In relative term, you are right but in absolute term. you are wrong. When we reach to nothing through JOOGTI, then the exactly reversal of what we think will occur, Now the Noor of Allah to whom we say 'nothing' or 'above all 'becomes "Everything" and this futile material world becomes 'nothing'. And it is limitless, timeless, unwrittenable, uncomparable, without attributes and so on. Then the term most benovelent, beneficient etc... does not apply.aminL wrote:Remember one thing, Allah has no bounds anything. If you read Hazar Imams Batul-Kayal firmans you will see he constantly says "He who is above all else" You can not attribute anything to Allah. Becuse the minute you do that, you are confining Him in the imagination of your mind. So for convinence we call our God Allah. Because when people ask you who is your God what will you say Allah rite you wont say we cant give him a name becuase he is above that? The 99 names of Allah are atributes of Allah but that too, when you say the Most Beinficent what do you mean by that.....and remember what evert you think of Allah is above that. There are no words to describe Allah. Etleast this is my view of things.
Same thing apply to ourself. We are nothing with relative to God. But if we are in God then we are everthing with relative to this Material world.
Bol - Noor
Are you saying only BOL has Noor. What about Ismailis in Iran who have had Batunui Deedar without BOL. What about Hafiz who had no BOL.aminL wrote:This can only be achived through Ibadat though. As long as you dont have th Bol, and you continue you to just say a name of Allah for example As-Salaam that word is just a name, but the minute that word is given to you as Bol it is no longer a word anymore it is Noor, it is light.
Consider the following poem of Hafiz.
Now
The sky-drum plays
All by itself in my head
Singing all day long
"Allah, Allah,
Allah."
Isn't that Noor! I have said it before in other forums and I will repeat it again. In my opinion, MHI gives BOL to Khoja Ismailis because of their excessive attachment to materialism. There is offcourse grace attached to it. However, if you are pure and recite any name of Allah or Imam, you could still elevate yourself. There is nothing exclusive about Noor in BOL.
It is misleading to say that you can only elevate yourself through BOL. All other forms of Ibaadat such as Dua, Dasond Seva can all be elevating.
That is ttue but there is only so much tta you can do with out a bol then. At one time or another in your life time you will need the Bol to progress further for that matter you can progress in Ibadat without a Bol you are right but at one time you will need a Guru (Sha Karim) and a Bol to help you to get further in your spiritual journey
Contact with Guru
Contact with the Guru and Ibaadat begin at Bayat and not when given BOL. How you live by the commitments of the Bayat will determine whether or not you need BOL. For some living by Dasond, Dua, constant remembrance and Sukreet is adequate and enlightening. Others feel the need of BOL as a boost.aminL wrote:That is ttue but there is only so much tta you can do with out a bol then. At one time or another in your life time you will need the Bol to progress further for that matter you can progress in Ibadat without a Bol you are right but at one time you will need a Guru (Sha Karim) and a Bol to help you to get further in your spiritual journey
Offcourse you can always renew your Bayat through Dua Karaavi.
Bol
The Bol is itself the Original Noor of Imam.
Imam has said to people who have Bol that they have Noor.
Everyones prayer,Bandagi, Ibadaat is done with the aim of achieving Noorani Deedar.
People with Bol have the Noor itself. When you do zikr with bol, in your mind you are literally bathing in Noor .
You become Noorani.
The difficulty arises when it is a gadha like me who has the diamond tied around his neck.
Not realising the value of which causes him to ignore it and treat it like any other zikr word.
Think of it like this
When you call upon the Almighty it is you who wants him.
With the Bol, it is you who went to him and he gave it to you and it is composed of him entirely.
I see this as Qayum Paya in the spiritual realm (the realm of reality).
I have noticed one thing, it is only those who Mowla wants who understand what I am saying. The majority either dismiss it or argue against it.
To understand reality attempts can be made but you will only start to recognize it when you free your self from the constraints of current concepts and belief (I mean believe what you perceive through your 5 senses+mann,chit,budhi and ahankar).
Once you succeed in freeing yourself everything begins to make sense. The reason for things to be as they are becomes clear.
The future and the past are seen in the present.
More later
SHAMS
Imam has said to people who have Bol that they have Noor.
Everyones prayer,Bandagi, Ibadaat is done with the aim of achieving Noorani Deedar.
People with Bol have the Noor itself. When you do zikr with bol, in your mind you are literally bathing in Noor .
You become Noorani.
The difficulty arises when it is a gadha like me who has the diamond tied around his neck.
Not realising the value of which causes him to ignore it and treat it like any other zikr word.
Think of it like this
When you call upon the Almighty it is you who wants him.
With the Bol, it is you who went to him and he gave it to you and it is composed of him entirely.
I see this as Qayum Paya in the spiritual realm (the realm of reality).
I have noticed one thing, it is only those who Mowla wants who understand what I am saying. The majority either dismiss it or argue against it.
To understand reality attempts can be made but you will only start to recognize it when you free your self from the constraints of current concepts and belief (I mean believe what you perceive through your 5 senses+mann,chit,budhi and ahankar).
Once you succeed in freeing yourself everything begins to make sense. The reason for things to be as they are becomes clear.
The future and the past are seen in the present.
More later
SHAMS
Please continue discussion on Allah vs Name of Allah but the leave the Bol subject out of this discussion.
I understand that this is linked but I do not want to see any more discussion on BOL here. Imam has made clear the restrictions on this matter and some of you have been almost mentioning the BOL, what kind of respect are you showing for BK farmans?
In any case, if there is one more discussion on Bol, the whole topic will be deleted.
Admin
I understand that this is linked but I do not want to see any more discussion on BOL here. Imam has made clear the restrictions on this matter and some of you have been almost mentioning the BOL, what kind of respect are you showing for BK farmans?
In any case, if there is one more discussion on Bol, the whole topic will be deleted.
Admin
Bol and Other Duties
I am not trying to undermine the importance of BOL. There are two issues related to it.
- By itself it does not yield results. It is not to be regarded as a substitute for other facets of Ibaadat such as Dua and Dasond. It is above and beyond these.
- It has to be a total commitment and not taken up lightly.
That is why MHI does not impose this upon us. It is upto us to determine the need for it individually and then take it up as a total commitment.
- By itself it does not yield results. It is not to be regarded as a substitute for other facets of Ibaadat such as Dua and Dasond. It is above and beyond these.
- It has to be a total commitment and not taken up lightly.
That is why MHI does not impose this upon us. It is upto us to determine the need for it individually and then take it up as a total commitment.