YAM Everybody,
I'm a new member posting for the first time. I have been reading the forums for a couple of months and I must say I have learned alot.
I put forward my post today seeking the advice from fellow members and especially those who are more learned than myself. I am a single mother of two fairly young children. I have tried my very best in raising them in the Ismaili faith, ie regular attendance in JamatKhana, religious classes, etc. My dilema is this.. Within the past year or so we have had a Sunni family and a Shia ithnashari family move into our neighborhood. Both families have children the same age as my own. The children became very close very quickly, playing together almost daily, walking to school together etc. It soon became known that we were an Ismaili family and from that day forward both sets of children from the Sunni & the Shia family stopped all contact with my children. Nothing meanspirited was ever said to my children nor did they have an argument or falling out with any of the other children. They just all of a sudden stopped playing with my kids, yet they still play and speak with one another. I can only assume this was at the direction of the parents. Needless to say, both my children are quit hurt by these actions, and I'm at a loss as to how to explain this to them. I've always emphasized to my children that they must be accepting of everyone regardless of color, faith, disability etc. I was hoping to get some advice on how I might gingerly explain this to a 5 and 7 year old. It is contradicting the behavior I have tried to raise them with and that which they are learning through their Bait Ul Ilm classes. By the way, neither sets of parents speak to me or any of the other neighbors for that matter so approaching them I feel would just cause unneccessary conflict and may end up embarassing my own children. Any thoughts would be most appreciated.
Muslim on Muslim discrimintation
Re: Muslim on Muslim discrimintation
LaylaLayla786 wrote:YAM Everybody,
I'm a new member posting for the first time. I have been reading the forums for a couple of months and I must say I have learned alot.
I put forward my post today seeking the advice from fellow members and especially those who are more learned than myself. I am a single mother of two fairly young children. I have tried my very best in raising them in the Ismaili faith, ie regular attendance in JamatKhana, religious classes, etc. My dilema is this.. Within the past year or so we have had a Sunni family and a Shia ithnashari family move into our neighborhood. Both families have children the same age as my own. The children became very close very quickly, playing together almost daily, walking to school together etc. It soon became known that we were an Ismaili family and from that day forward both sets of children from the Sunni & the Shia family stopped all contact with my children. Nothing meanspirited was ever said to my children nor did they have an argument or falling out with any of the other children. They just all of a sudden stopped playing with my kids, yet they still play and speak with one another. I can only assume this was at the direction of the parents. Needless to say, both my children are quit hurt by these actions, and I'm at a loss as to how to explain this to them. I've always emphasized to my children that they must be accepting of everyone regardless of color, faith, disability etc. I was hoping to get some advice on how I might gingerly explain this to a 5 and 7 year old. It is contradicting the behavior I have tried to raise them with and that which they are learning through their Bait Ul Ilm classes. By the way, neither sets of parents speak to me or any of the other neighbors for that matter so approaching them I feel would just cause unneccessary conflict and may end up embarassing my own children. Any thoughts would be most appreciated.
As for approaching other parents - I would refer you to the recent farmans of MHI during his US Darbars - that there will be people that will listen and be open to your faith - and there will be people who won't - those that will listen - engage them - those that don't listen - walk away - let them be..and that is what I will tell you about the parents.
I would explain to your children that there is nothing wrong with your children - it is just that some folks are in awe of us and our abilities
sorry i don't have kids of my own - so i can't give further advice on that.
Shams
As MHI said in his speech in Mombas last year:
"It is striking that modern neuro-sciences have demonstrated that long before the age of 6, children are aware of the different cultural backgrounds amongst each other in their classes. It is thus before that age that pluralism can be instilled as a life value."
Hence it is parents duty to instil the pluralistic values in our children before they become intolerant of others. In your case, clearly the parents had a major role in creating that friction and to reinforce the innate tendencies towards differntiation mentioned above.
In my opinion you should try to talk to the parents and let them know that you want to live in the atmosphere of peace and harmony as is enloined by our faith and that there is no need to create hostilities between children. At the same time you should let your children know that our faith teaches us to behave in a brotherly/sisterly manner with members of other faiths.
"It is striking that modern neuro-sciences have demonstrated that long before the age of 6, children are aware of the different cultural backgrounds amongst each other in their classes. It is thus before that age that pluralism can be instilled as a life value."
Hence it is parents duty to instil the pluralistic values in our children before they become intolerant of others. In your case, clearly the parents had a major role in creating that friction and to reinforce the innate tendencies towards differntiation mentioned above.
In my opinion you should try to talk to the parents and let them know that you want to live in the atmosphere of peace and harmony as is enloined by our faith and that there is no need to create hostilities between children. At the same time you should let your children know that our faith teaches us to behave in a brotherly/sisterly manner with members of other faiths.
-
uganda
Re: Muslim on Muslim discrimintation
May Mawla give you more strength in your endeavor in raising the kids.Layla786 wrote:YAM Everybody,
I'm a new member posting for the first time. I have been reading the forums for a couple of months and I must say I have learned alot.
I put forward my post today seeking the advice from fellow members and especially those who are more learned than myself. I am a single mother of two fairly young children. I have tried my very best in raising them in the Ismaili faith, ie regular attendance in JamatKhana, religious classes, etc. My dilema is this.. Within the past year or so we have had a Sunni family and a Shia ithnashari family move into our neighborhood. Both families have children the same age as my own. The children became very close very quickly, playing together almost daily, walking to school together etc. It soon became known that we were an Ismaili family and from that day forward both sets of children from the Sunni & the Shia family stopped all contact with my children. Nothing meanspirited was ever said to my children nor did they have an argument or falling out with any of the other children. They just all of a sudden stopped playing with my kids, yet they still play and speak with one another. I can only assume this was at the direction of the parents. Needless to say, both my children are quit hurt by these actions, and I'm at a loss as to how to explain this to them. I've always emphasized to my children that they must be accepting of everyone regardless of color, faith, disability etc. I was hoping to get some advice on how I might gingerly explain this to a 5 and 7 year old. It is contradicting the behavior I have tried to raise them with and that which they are learning through their Bait Ul Ilm classes. By the way, neither sets of parents speak to me or any of the other neighbors for that matter so approaching them I feel would just cause unneccessary conflict and may end up embarassing my own children. Any thoughts would be most appreciated.
In our Tariqah, Taqqiyah is very important and it has many benefits.
I strongly advise people to give names that allow taqqiya. It has tremendous benefits in all walks of life.
And do it without development of a persecution complex.
Also learn the classical prayer and appreciate its benefits also.
Now why did that family kids stopped talking to your kids.
Its not discrimination. From there point of view Ismailism is heretic. They will not understand it. BUT WE ARE GUILTY ALSO. We have ourselves not properly practicised our on Tariqah with honesty. Internecine jealousies, petty thinking, petty competitions, intellectual matters and horizons overcome with inconsequential narrow matters, not doing sacrifice for little things. Read some of the literature of the western science where in the old era, scholars would send their papers at considerable effort to their colleagues upon simple request.
How am I to follow mawla's firman when I do not even remember it ?
Our community can develop a soft power just by being more faithful to the Mawla's firmans.
Ya Ali Madad
YAM
I dont know why you are upset!!......you said its your Dilema!!......Dear, I dont think if its your Dilema.....rather you should feel pity for such ill-educated neighbour "Muslims"....who dont have any wisdom or intellect to tolerate differences........Sister, YOu should realize that we are blessed with Intellect and wisdom to tolerate differences........
If they are not letting their children to interact with yours......fine.....Keep your head up.......if you get a chance to do them a favour....do it with Pleasure!.....they will realize their mistakes later.
You dont need to hide anything...we are Proud to b Ismaili.......
I appreciate you care about Deen and Dunya of your children so much!!
YAM
If they are not letting their children to interact with yours......fine.....Keep your head up.......if you get a chance to do them a favour....do it with Pleasure!.....they will realize their mistakes later.
You dont need to hide anything...we are Proud to b Ismaili.......
I appreciate you care about Deen and Dunya of your children so much!!
YAM
Dear brother,First off brother, please do realize that Allah swt gives us strength, not a man
but you are right...from most non-ismaili viewpoints, your sect is considered anti-islamic.
To the OP, that is unfortunate, I am sorry to hear of this and I express my apologies
Your apologies are useless because you have just confirmed thru your response that you are as much a bigot as the sunni and Ithna families concerned.
You say:
Obviously, you have not understood the Qur'an and nor have you understood or read the ahadith of Bukhari, to whom you give a lot of credence.First of brother, please do realise that Allah swt gives strength not a man
I cannot give you a lesson on an Islamic faith based on Qur'an and ahadith, because that is upto your Mullah, and good luck with them. However, I shall say this: There are numerous ahadith in which the Prophet has said that people should listen to him, even while they are praying because without listening to him, their prayers are not accepted.
And as for your Ithna friends, they pray to Allah s.w.t. thru their Imams. They cannot pray to Allah swt direct. Ask them. If they deny this then they are liars because Imam Jafar as-Sadiq A.S. has said, "Allah is prayed through us, Imams". So they cannot pray direct.
In the Qur'an Allah swt tells the Prophet to forgive his people and then only Allah will forgive them.
In ahadith, Prophet is asked to pray for the rain, and in another they even ask Omar to pray for rain when the Prophet was gone. So why were the people asking the Prophet and Omar to do so when Allah s.w.t.
can be approached directly?
So when Ismailis say, May Mowla give you strength, it means through the Wasila of Mowla may God give you strength! You people were will never understand Ismailism because your brains are limited by your Mullas.
In the Qur'an Allah s.w.t says: "Seek a Wasilla". Now what do you think, should we listen to you and the rest or should we use our Intellect and follow Ahl al-bayt?
As for the rest of your : "non Ismaili Muslims" consider Ismailis non-Muslims, I had to laugh at that pathetic, ignorant remark.
So, you and the Ithnas are good Muslims so why do the Sunnis kill Shias in their Mosques during Mohoram and vice-versa. And the Sunnis do not even consider the Ithnas as Muslims! They call them infidels.
Do you mean to say that killing Muslims or innocent people is your right to kill because you consider yourselves Muslims? Where in Islam is it permissible to do so?
The 9/11 bombers and suicide bombers around the world are true Muslims? Why not? They are your own cult and creed! They call Ismailis and other Muslims non-Muslims!
Bin Laden and the Talibans practice the same way as you do, so you consider them Muslims? No wonder people think Islam is the worst religion.
Coming back to the sister: Listen to Shams and Maherally. They are both right. However, the Sunni and Ithna families are ignorant and to me they are not true Muslims, because they are causing Fitnas! If I were you, I would move away from them because such fanatics would not hesitate to cause harm, although in the West we are more protected.
Shams is right because you cannot help the ignoramuses as they chose to be ignorant.
On the other Maherally is right because we should try but again, if people chose to remain ignorant and are a breeding grounds of hatred, you cannot change them, but there is no harm in trying.
Virgo2
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/derek-flo ... 14615.html Posted: June 11, 2009 09:03 PM
Hashoo Bombers Strike Again
Afpak, Aga Khan, Benazir Bhutto, Islamabad, Islamabad Marriott, Ismaili, Lahore, Pakistan, Pakistan Taliban, Pc Hotel Blast, Peshawar, Serena Hotel, Takfirism, Terrorism, World News
Late Tuesday night another one of the Hashwani family's hotels was demolished in a well-planned and executed suicide attack in Peshawar, Pakistan. The Pearl Continental (PC) Hotel chain is owned by perhaps Pakistan's most prominent Ismaili family, the Hashwanis. Major cooperations in Pakistan, when not wholly owned subsidiaries of the Pakistani Army, are most often familial enterprises such as the Hashwani's Hashoo Group. The Hashwanis had been in talks with the U.S. government to sell it the PC Peshawar property to be used as its new consular offices in light of war-torn North West Frontier Province's ever growing importance in U.S. foreign policy. There are rumors that the Hashwani's were or are considering getting out of the hospitality industry altogether. Last year's Islamabad Marriott bombing was devastating to the family's investment portfolio though its patriarch, Saddaruddin Hashwani, issued a defiant statement to the press that he would rebuild the Islamabad Marriott and would not bow to terrorist intimidation.
While covering the Pakistani elections last year, I often worked out of the PC Lahore's business centre and devoured some incredible international fare at the hotel's excellent restaurant after long days trudging up and down Mall Road looking for stories. Even if I could have afforded to stay there, I wouldn't have because of its obviousness as a high-value target in the wave of jihadist violence that had already engulfed the country by mid-2007. Partly for my safety, I stayed at a low profile guest house down the road. Sadly, it doesn't help that the 5-star hotels in Pakistan are owned by a group of Ismailis, a branch of Shi'ism that holds the Aga Khan in highest esteem as living imam, when considering the militants takfiri ideology. The Sunni extremists that claim to adhere to takfirism believe that individuals may declare those who follow different strains of Islam apostates and can therefore justify acts of previously imaginable terror throughout South Asia and the Middle East. Takfirism is essential in creating a sense of the "Other" in the militant mind which is used to justify attacks against those praying in mosques and eating in hotel dining rooms. Shia Muslims whether the traditional Twelvers or the lesser known Ismaili Seveners are some of the Takfiri militants favored targets.
Undoubtedly, the reasoning behind the attack will be attributed to either the PC's international clientele or its possible sale to the Americans. The Ismailis as a cultural subset are extraordinarily successful business people with Shah Karim al-Hussayni, the Aga Khan, chief among them. The Aga Khan and the Hashwanis represent immense wealth in a region wracked by poverty and illiteracy-related militancy. They both provide relatively large investment opportunities and job creation that have become a target of nihilist militants who's ideology has become somehow even more vile.
When I was working in Afghanistan last year, the Afghan Taleban targeted the telecom company Roshan's mobile phone transmission towers in the southern provinces after having previously attacked the Aga Khan's Serena hotel in Kabul. The Taleban issued a communique stating they wanted the towers shut down at night because they believed their movements could be tracked by coalition forces and the mobile signals emitted from their phones were being used to target them. Ismaili business interests seemed to be under sustained assault. His charitable work, which often focuses on his Ismaili minority, is underwritten by the for profit arm of his empire with the luxurious Serena chain as its face. Now again, the Taleban's attacks on the Roshan towers and the Serena were very likely of a purely strategic nature but the fact that the towers are owned by the Aga Khan (and his European consortium partners) doesn't exactly help. A major segment of the Aga Khan's charitable work is aiding remote Ismaili communities in Central and South Asia who the Taleban consider to be apostates similar to the Twelver Shia Hazaras they attempted to annihilate in central and northern Afghanistan in the 1990's.
I had some of the same thoughts regarding the return of Benazir Bhutto. Though she was still beloved by many, she had neither the strategy nor the credibility to defeat the takfiris who were determined to eliminate her. Not only was she Shia, like her father Zufliqar and Pakistan's founding father Mohammed Ali Jinnah, but she came from the rich and resented zamindar feudal structure in Sindh province that is another post-colonial relict of British divide et impera strategy. As I've written previously regarding Sri Lanka, the Crown's modus operandi was to favor ethnic and religious minorities over the "unwashed masses" in order to maintain control over the populace and extract the natural wealth of their colonies with as little disruption as possible. I'm sure the Pakistani Taleban didn't need Benazir to be a land owning Twelver to declare her an enemy (and therefore punishable by death) but I doubt her lineage and status helped her case. Benzair spent the last morning of her life meeting with Hamid Karzai at the Aga Khan's opulent Islamabad Serena (where a friend of mine photographed the two hours before Bhutto's assassination). People across the region who depend on the Ismaili establishment for employment, sustenance and remittances have suffered enormously from the Taleban's unforgiving insurgency and reconciliation cannot begin soon enough should the kinetic war-fighting cease anytime soon. Inshallah!
Hashoo Bombers Strike Again
Afpak, Aga Khan, Benazir Bhutto, Islamabad, Islamabad Marriott, Ismaili, Lahore, Pakistan, Pakistan Taliban, Pc Hotel Blast, Peshawar, Serena Hotel, Takfirism, Terrorism, World News
Late Tuesday night another one of the Hashwani family's hotels was demolished in a well-planned and executed suicide attack in Peshawar, Pakistan. The Pearl Continental (PC) Hotel chain is owned by perhaps Pakistan's most prominent Ismaili family, the Hashwanis. Major cooperations in Pakistan, when not wholly owned subsidiaries of the Pakistani Army, are most often familial enterprises such as the Hashwani's Hashoo Group. The Hashwanis had been in talks with the U.S. government to sell it the PC Peshawar property to be used as its new consular offices in light of war-torn North West Frontier Province's ever growing importance in U.S. foreign policy. There are rumors that the Hashwani's were or are considering getting out of the hospitality industry altogether. Last year's Islamabad Marriott bombing was devastating to the family's investment portfolio though its patriarch, Saddaruddin Hashwani, issued a defiant statement to the press that he would rebuild the Islamabad Marriott and would not bow to terrorist intimidation.
While covering the Pakistani elections last year, I often worked out of the PC Lahore's business centre and devoured some incredible international fare at the hotel's excellent restaurant after long days trudging up and down Mall Road looking for stories. Even if I could have afforded to stay there, I wouldn't have because of its obviousness as a high-value target in the wave of jihadist violence that had already engulfed the country by mid-2007. Partly for my safety, I stayed at a low profile guest house down the road. Sadly, it doesn't help that the 5-star hotels in Pakistan are owned by a group of Ismailis, a branch of Shi'ism that holds the Aga Khan in highest esteem as living imam, when considering the militants takfiri ideology. The Sunni extremists that claim to adhere to takfirism believe that individuals may declare those who follow different strains of Islam apostates and can therefore justify acts of previously imaginable terror throughout South Asia and the Middle East. Takfirism is essential in creating a sense of the "Other" in the militant mind which is used to justify attacks against those praying in mosques and eating in hotel dining rooms. Shia Muslims whether the traditional Twelvers or the lesser known Ismaili Seveners are some of the Takfiri militants favored targets.
Undoubtedly, the reasoning behind the attack will be attributed to either the PC's international clientele or its possible sale to the Americans. The Ismailis as a cultural subset are extraordinarily successful business people with Shah Karim al-Hussayni, the Aga Khan, chief among them. The Aga Khan and the Hashwanis represent immense wealth in a region wracked by poverty and illiteracy-related militancy. They both provide relatively large investment opportunities and job creation that have become a target of nihilist militants who's ideology has become somehow even more vile.
When I was working in Afghanistan last year, the Afghan Taleban targeted the telecom company Roshan's mobile phone transmission towers in the southern provinces after having previously attacked the Aga Khan's Serena hotel in Kabul. The Taleban issued a communique stating they wanted the towers shut down at night because they believed their movements could be tracked by coalition forces and the mobile signals emitted from their phones were being used to target them. Ismaili business interests seemed to be under sustained assault. His charitable work, which often focuses on his Ismaili minority, is underwritten by the for profit arm of his empire with the luxurious Serena chain as its face. Now again, the Taleban's attacks on the Roshan towers and the Serena were very likely of a purely strategic nature but the fact that the towers are owned by the Aga Khan (and his European consortium partners) doesn't exactly help. A major segment of the Aga Khan's charitable work is aiding remote Ismaili communities in Central and South Asia who the Taleban consider to be apostates similar to the Twelver Shia Hazaras they attempted to annihilate in central and northern Afghanistan in the 1990's.
I had some of the same thoughts regarding the return of Benazir Bhutto. Though she was still beloved by many, she had neither the strategy nor the credibility to defeat the takfiris who were determined to eliminate her. Not only was she Shia, like her father Zufliqar and Pakistan's founding father Mohammed Ali Jinnah, but she came from the rich and resented zamindar feudal structure in Sindh province that is another post-colonial relict of British divide et impera strategy. As I've written previously regarding Sri Lanka, the Crown's modus operandi was to favor ethnic and religious minorities over the "unwashed masses" in order to maintain control over the populace and extract the natural wealth of their colonies with as little disruption as possible. I'm sure the Pakistani Taleban didn't need Benazir to be a land owning Twelver to declare her an enemy (and therefore punishable by death) but I doubt her lineage and status helped her case. Benzair spent the last morning of her life meeting with Hamid Karzai at the Aga Khan's opulent Islamabad Serena (where a friend of mine photographed the two hours before Bhutto's assassination). People across the region who depend on the Ismaili establishment for employment, sustenance and remittances have suffered enormously from the Taleban's unforgiving insurgency and reconciliation cannot begin soon enough should the kinetic war-fighting cease anytime soon. Inshallah!
-
shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
I'm a new member posting for the first time. I have been reading the forums for a couple of months and I must say I have learned alot.
I put forward my post today seeking the advice from fellow members and especially those who are more learned than myself. I am a single mother of two fairly young children. I have tried my very best in raising them in the Ismaili faith, ie regular attendance in JamatKhana, religious classes, etc. My dilema is this.. Within the past year or so we have had a Sunni family and a Shia ithnashari family move into our neighborhood. Both families have children the same age as my own. The children became very close very quickly, playing together almost daily, walking to school together etc. It soon became known that we were an Ismaili family and from that day forward both sets of children from the Sunni & the Shia family stopped all contact with my children. Nothing meanspirited was ever said to my children nor did they have an argument or falling out with any of the other children. They just all of a sudden stopped playing with my kids, yet they still play and speak with one another. I can only assume this was at the direction of the parents. Needless to say, both my children are quit hurt by these actions, and I'm at a loss as to how to explain this to them. I've always emphasized to my children that they must be accepting of everyone regardless of color, faith, disability etc. I was hoping to get some advice on how I might gingerly explain this to a 5 and 7 year old. It is contradicting the behavior I have tried to raise them with and that which they are learning through their Bait Ul Ilm classes. By the way, neither sets of parents speak to me or any of the other neighbors for that matter so approaching them I feel would just cause unneccessary conflict and may end up embarassing my own children. Any thoughts would be most appreciated.
dear layla, ya ali madad wa as-salam alaikum [ may peace be upon you ]
the problems that you're facing is not because they are arrogant, its because you dont have complete knowledge about our tarikah and if you do you can face them
try getting some talim bcoz thats what our imam wants us to do
you're preparing your children thats good but what about your aakhirat ???
ya ali madad