Is this what Islam says?

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:33 pm

MMA, a religious political party of Pakistan announced that no one should celebrate Newyear in North west frontier province of Pakistan because according to them celebration of new year is against Islam?? what do you think

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:07 pm

That  is not true.  Muslims as you might already know use the lunar calander.  Our new year is on March 21st. This day is known as the day of Navroz.  So if it is our new year, then why would we not celbrate it...it does not make any scence. 

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:06 pm

First, this Islamic calendar did not start until after the Hijra. The according to "Islamic Calendar" the New Year is Morrahaam 1. The Navrose is a Persian New Year day marking Spring 1 (March 21 Not long ago (around 1756 year of the Lord/CE) March was the first month in the calendar and January and February were the last two months that were added. There used to be 10 months to the year. Months begging from September Through December were Named after South Asian Numbers... I don't know how the numbering system and I am also trying to spell at the same time:
Sept-ember -7 santh
Oct-ober- 8 aanth
Nove-mber- 9 noue
Dece-mber- 10 dass

Visitor · Post by **Visitor** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:52 am

YAM,

I would think if you are living in Pakistan, you would do as Pakistanis do? Isn't That what Mowla recommends? If you are in Rome, do as Romans do.

The question is, being part of any religious or non religious festives is good or bad?

If you are in India, would you be part of someones happinness be it wedding or Diwali? Would you be a sinner if you did? Or would you achieve blessings from Allah for not being part of it?

Does Mowla or Quran say that we should not celebrate?
Are New Year celebrations considered as religious holiday?

Good questions. I never thought about this previously.

Yam Visitor

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:35 am

The fact that I made a topic is this what Islam say? is not that in my heart there is a doubt or question that Islam is against Newyear celebration etc but I wanted to point out narrowmindness of muslim leaders.

The extremist orthodox muslims are against celebration of Newyear,Valentine day etc. To them only doing terrorism and killing is what Islams say rest all is Haram which is certainly not as we all know.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:00 pm

In my first message I wrote about Muslim political party against new year celebration this was what I read in Pakistani Newspaper website [ I think I read that from Dawn, as I posted it long time ago I dont exactly remember]
My point is to show the narrowmindeness of people be it from Pakistan or any where in this world.

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:21 pm

star_munir wrote:In my first message I wrote about Muslim political party against new year celebration this was what I read in Pakistani Newspaper website [ I think I read that from Dawn, as I posted it long time ago I dont exactly remember]
My point is to show the narrowmindeness of people be it from Pakistan or any where in this world.

Do you think the narrow-mindedness exists within Ismaili Community? I know for the fact that there are many, many, many people even in the leadership position within the Jamet; be it in Canada, US, Europe, Africa or be it in Asia (I can't say anything about Australia) put the kind of narrow-mindedness you have described to shame!

tasbiha · Post by **tasbiha** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:58 pm

[quote="unnalhaq"][quote="star_munir"]In my first message I wrote about Muslim political party against new year celebration this was what I read in Pakistani Newspaper website [ I think I read that from Dawn, as I posted it long time ago I dont exactly remember]
My point is to show the narrowmindeness of people be it from Pakistan or any where in this world.[/quote]
Do you think the narrow-mindedness exists within Ismaili Community? I know for the fact that there are many, many, many people even in the leadership position within the Jamet; be it in Canada, US, Europe, Africa or be it in Asia (I can't say anything about Australia) put the kind of narrow-mindedness you have described to shame![/quote]

Missed you, unnalhaq.

Yes, there is racism, classism and prejudice within the Ismaili community, but we don't read or hear about present-day Ismailis sawing off peoples' heads, being suicide bombers, or crashing jetliners into skyscrapers.

Nor do Ismailis tell other Moslems what days they can or can't celebrate as holidays.

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:52 pm

tasbiha wrote: Yes, there is racism, classism and prejudice within the Ismaili community, but we don't read or hear about present-day Ismailis sawing off peoples' heads, being suicide bombers, or crashing jetliners into skyscrapers.

Forgive me, correct me if you can please, but isn't there a saying that the words (and/or actions) are deadlier than the sward! Just something to ponder about

tasbiha wrote: Nor do Ismailis tell other Moslems what days they can or can't celebrate as holidays.

Now, now that is too broad of a group you are talking about-Ismailis.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:36 pm

Surely there are some ismailis who are narrowminded. There are good and bad people following every religion and every sect but here the point is Ismailis are not forcing any one not to celebrate this and that in the name of Islam and if you do so they start calling you as Kafir...
The narrowmindness among some group of people some times converts into extremism and then it goes further ahead and takes the form of terrorism from which all the world is afraid of.

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:03 pm

star_munir wrote:Surely there are some ismailis who are narrowminded. There are good and bad people following every religion and every sect

Ok, just remember someone in an earlier form had said that the Ismaili <STRIKE>fate</STRIKE> faith is the best there is. And how come you are marginalizing it by comparing (and people) it to "every religion and every sect”?

star_munir wrote: The narrowmindness among some group of people some times converts into extremism and then it goes further ahead and takes the form of terrorism from which all the world is afraid of.

Please don't discount the world. I don't think we are not afraid of terrorism, however we like to face it head on or as my president would tell say being preemptive. Terrorism is the enemy, just like cancer is a disease; one must not be afraid of it but work to eliminate it.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:11 pm

I wrote in my post earlier that Ismailism is best and it is also as per Farman. There is a quote that Islam is the best religion but muslims are the worst people. It is also in Ginans that Satpanth [Ismailism..True religion Islam] is truth but followers are liars.
I never wrote that Ismailis are or muslims are superior then other.. What I wrote was about religion. You may check out I qouted 2 Farmans regarding this in topic elders of jamat and pluralism.
Terror is opposite of peace. Where there is terroe there is no peace and love therefore peace loving people are afraid of terror and wants to get rid from it.

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:35 am

star_munir wrote:There is a quote that Islam is the best religion but muslims are the worst people.

Now, that is not nice to say (or post or regurgitate). THINK AGAIN! HELLO! The Imam is a Muslim too!

star_munir wrote: It is also in Ginans that Satpanth [Ismailism..True religion Islam] is truth but followers are liars.

Well, that makes you...

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:50 pm

Hi,
You are not properly understanding quote and verse of Ginan.
There are many terrorist who are muslims. So does this means that Islam teaches terrorism? So there is diffrerence between Islam and Muslims. Try to understand that. There are also Ismailis who drink whisky and beer so do it means that Ismailism teaches to drink? Drinking is fobidden in Ismailism as Per Farman and Ginan but inspite of that also there are people who do.
Don't take the literal meanings that all Ismailis and Muslims are bad. There are terrorist who are hindus, christian, Jews but why in news all the time most of us we read is about Islamic Fundamentalist?? Because they are more powerful that can be the one reason but it not means that Islam is saying them to do so. There are many Non Muslims also who accept the fact that Islam is religion of peace and love but there are some muslims also who are ignorant about this. There are people who quote Quranic Verses for their own favour and try to promote terrorism through it. So does it means that Quran is saying to do terrorism? Definately not but the followers are liars. They are bad. Sat Panth is true religion if still people are doing lot of Sins it is not the fault of Imam, Pir or Religion.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:55 pm

What I wrote and answer of your question is also in two Farmans which I quoted in topic Elders of Jamat and Pluralism in our recent discussions.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:05 am

You wrote that THINK AGAIN! HELLO! The Imam is a Muslim too!
It is in Ginan
Anant Akhado by Pir Hassan Kabirdin verse 317 and 318
The Lord sang a poem(alluding to Holy Qur'an)
and it was the forth time that He did it
The Lord revealed himself in the Muslim form
and it is indeed Ali who was present at the beginning
The Lord revealed himself in the Muslim form
so that the world may see Him
To the momin souls he revealed his (inner)nature
which is the Divine Manifestation of the Lord

unnalhaq · Post by **unnalhaq** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:20 am

star_munir wrote:Hi,
You are not properly understanding quote

Let me guess it has a hidden menaing- "batin?"
You have clearly stated that:

star_munir wrote: I wrote in my post earlier that Ismailism is best and it is also as per Farman. There is a quote that Islam is the best religion but muslims are the worst people. It is also in Ginans that Satpanth [Ismailism..True religion Islam] is truth but followers are liars.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:33 am

No not batini meanings....just in sense of idiom.
We in our casual language often says like "I have explained you thousand times but yet you are not understanding"
Now this certainly not means exactly thousand times in number. It means many many times. Similarly here it is not at all means that each and every person but here it means most of all.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:40 am

All the other religions will lead you to heaven but it is only
Satpanth that will lead you to the eternal heaven (Amrapuri).

[From Ginan Momin Chetamani by Syed Imam Shah]

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:22 pm

http://www.dawn.com/2005/04/04/top2.htm

MMA men disrupt women's marathon

By Akram Malik

GUJRANWALA, April 3: Declaring girls' participation in public sports as an un-Islamic act, hundreds of activists of the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal, led by a member of the National Assembly, disrupted a mini-marathon here on Sunday.

They set on fire 19 vehicles outside the Jinnah Stadium and damaged other property.

Over a dozen MMA activists, including MNA Maulana Qazi Hamidullah and his son Maulana Kafaitullah, and three policemen were injured in a clash which erupted when police tried to prevent them from disrupting the event. Police later arrested the MNA and about 20 other people.

The district administration had been asked by the local leadership of the alliance to drop girls' event from the 3km marathon. The administration, however, went ahead with the plan, but failed to take adequate security measures. A similar event had been held in Lahore last month amid tight security.

The trouble started when about 800 MMA activists who had gathered outside the stadium were informed that the girls' race had started from the Divisional Public School. By that time the men's race, which begun half an hour earlier, had reached the stadium.

According to officials, the activists, who were armed with 'petrol bombs', clubs and bricks, attacked the participants of the men's race, police and district administration personnel.

They torched 12 cars and seven motorcycles and smashed window-panes of the stadium and adjacent buildings and shops. Police resorted to a baton-charge, but after failing to disperse the violent crowd they started firing in the air.

Cars belonging to Punjab Transport Minister Rana Shamshad Ahmad Khan, MPA Mohammad Ashraf Butt, Tehsil Municipal Administrator Chaudhry Zubair Nat, Pakistan Muslim League District president Chaudhry Zafarullah and the executive district officer, revenue, were among those set on fire.

The girls' race was stopped half way. Some officials said that people responsible for the violence might face trial under the Anti-Terrorism Act. MMA leaders blamed the administration for the incident and said they had warned the organizers no to hold the girls' marathon on the GT Road.

A press note issued by District Coordination Officer Fazeel Asghar alleged that the assailants had also used petrol bombs and fired at the main gate of the stadium with automatic weapons. MNA Hamidullah denied the allegation

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:26 pm

http://zeenews.com/znnew/index.html

Women banned from road race in Pak because of fears of attack

Lahore, Apr 05: Authorities have banned women from competing in a road race in eastern Pakistan, fearing attacks from supporters of a radical Islamic Coalition who hurled stones and bricks at participants of another race over the weekend, officials said today.

On Sunday, more than 200 supporters of Mutahida Majlis-e-Amal attacked a race in Gujranwala, a town in eastern Punjab province, protesting women's participation in the event.

The MMA is a coalition of radical Muslim parties seeking the strict implementation of Islamic Law in Pakistan.

Some 18 people, including eight policemen, were injured in clashes between the protesters and police, who intervened to protect the runners.

Anxious to avoid further attacks, organisers have decided to only allow men to run in a race scheduled for Friday in Sargodha, another town in Punjab, said Mahar Rashid, a government organiser of the competition.

Meanwhile, a lawmaker from the coalition, Qazi Hameedullah, and his son were arrested yesterday for allegedly leading Sunday's protest. They were charged under the anti-terrorism laws for attacking police and damaging public property, Gujranwala police chief Altaf Qamar said.

Members of Punjab's provincial legislature passed a resolution condemning the attack on the race, though one lawmaker from the MMA vowed to continue opposing the participation of women in such sporting events.

"We are not against active participation of women but it should be within some limits," Asghar Gujjar said in the Punjab assembly yesterday.

Bureau Report

pardesi · Post by **pardesi** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:32 am

I noticed that in the beginning of this topic few members talked about lunar calender and Islamic calender. The question that I have may be unsuitable under this topic, but since some members talked about it, I will ask. The Islamic Calender started after the Hijra. Who thought up the names of the months and the order they should be in?  Then again we know that Prophet Mohammad was born in Rabiul Awal 560 AD. Does that mean that the months were already in use. Were the months of Islamic calender part of some other Lunar Calender before the Hijra? Also the Islamic Calender starts with Moharram so how long after the actual Hijra did the Islamic calender kick in? Well these are too many questions but I hope someone can throw some light on them so a lot of members like me can learn.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:25 am

pardesi wrote:I noticed that in the beginning of this topic few members talked about lunar calender and Islamic calender. The question that I have may be unsuitable under this topic, but since some members talked about it, I will ask. The Islamic Calender started after the Hijra. Who thought up the names of the months and the order they should be in?  Then again we know that Prophet Mohammad was born in Rabiul Awal 560 AD. Does that mean that the months were already in use. Were the months of Islamic calender part of some other Lunar Calender before the Hijra? Also the Islamic Calender starts with Moharram so how long after the actual Hijra did the Islamic calender kick in? Well these are too many questions but I hope someone can throw some light on them so a lot of members like me can learn.

The usage of lunar month calender predates Islam. Arabs used this type of calendering long before Islam. The advent of Islam merely served as a 'marker' or reference point. The Islamic calender began on the 1st of Muharram immediately before the date of Hijra. The Hijra took place around September of 622 and Ist of Muharram of that year was on 16th July 622 - 1st day of Islamic calender.

The months were already in use and their naming have no relationship with Islam. For example 'Rabi al-Awwal' means "The first spring" , 'Ramadhan' means "The month of great heat" and 'Muharram' means "The sacred month".

There is a nice article on Islamic Calender in "The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam" by Cyril Glasse' under "Calender".

tasbiha · Post by **tasbiha** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:30 pm

" do you think when sultan mohd lived in india , he did what indian do, marry to indian woman ?"

That's exactly what he did.

VTECMAN786 · Post by **VTECMAN786** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:42 pm

Ive come to realize that the orthodox extremist Muslims do not follow the Quran, but rather they follow the Hadith..

The Quran is the final word of God, not Hadith..

I am an Ismaili, however, I follow the Quran, and not Hadith so much.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:28 pm

VTECMAN786 wrote:Ive come to realize that the orthodox extremist Muslims do not follow the Quran, but rather they follow the Hadith..

The Quran is the final word of God, not Hadith..

I am an Ismaili, however, I follow the Quran, and not Hadith so much.

If you are an Ismaili than the only thing you should follow is the Imam.
If the Imam says follow the quran..you do so..if he says don't follow the quran..you are bound to not follow the quran....

Shams

VTECMAN786 · Post by **VTECMAN786** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:44 pm

ShamsB wrote:
VTECMAN786 wrote:Ive come to realize that the orthodox extremist Muslims do not follow the Quran, but rather they follow the Hadith..

The Quran is the final word of God, not Hadith..

I am an Ismaili, however, I follow the Quran, and not Hadith so much.
If you are an Ismaili than the only thing you should follow is the Imam.
If the Imam says follow the quran..you do so..if he says don't follow the quran..you are bound to not follow the quran....

Shams

Umm, no. The Quran is also part of Shi'a Ismaili Muslims as well.

pakifellah · Post by **pakifellah** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:48 am

If you are an Ismaili than the only thing you should follow is the Imam. If the Imam says follow the quran..you do so..if he says don't follow the quran..you are bound to not follow the quran.... YA ALI MADAD:  so what does the imam says about the HOLY QURAN should we follow it or not to follow it,  any firman made by MHI in this regard. thanks.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:35 am

pakifellah wrote:If you are an Ismaili than the only thing you should follow is the Imam. If the Imam says follow the quran..you do so..if he says don't follow the quran..you are bound to not follow the quran.... YA ALI MADAD:  so what does the imam says about the HOLY QURAN should we follow it or not to follow it,  any firman made by MHI in this regard. thanks.

"I would like you to go on improving your knowledge and your understanding of the Dua and of those parts of the Quran-e-Shariff which are important to us in our everyday lives, in our understanding of our Faith."

pakifellah · Post by **pakifellah** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:31 am

YA ALI MADAD: MINE IS A SIMPLE QUESTION   IS THERE A FIRMAN  OR  NOT  IF YES THEN POST IT. LETS STICK TO THE QUESTION PLS. THE FIRST LINE AND A HALF IS A STATEMENT MADE BY SOMEONE ELSE I JUST USED IT FOR QUOTATION.

www.ismaili.net