Explaination needed of Koran Ayat.

[a_27826]

In today's world we have made god into a commodity....its a business....They say the more you give the more you get....tum 1 rupya doge woh 10 lakh dega remember ??

i think, this may be due to the following

Quran 002:245 Who is he that will lend God a good loan, and He will multiply it for him manifold? God grasps, and outspreads; and unto Him you shall be returned

Matthew 22:21 “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

maybe God is testing us with our valuable possessions given by Him, like He did it with Abraham

037:108 and when he had reached the age of running with him, he said, 'My son, I see in a dream that I shall sacrifice thee; consider, What do you think?'

He said, 'My father, do as you are bidden; you shall find me, God willing, one of the steadfast.'

When they had surrendered, and he flung him upon his brow, We called unto him, 'Abraham, you have confirmed the vision; even so We recompense the good-doers.

This is indeed the manifest trial.'

[shiraz.virani]

i think, this may be due to the following

Quran 002:245 Who is he that will lend God a good loan, and He will multiply it for him manifold? God grasps, and outspreads; and unto Him you shall be returned

Matthew 22:21 “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

maybe God is testing us with our valuable possessions given by Him, like He did it with Abraham

037:108 and when he had reached the age of running with him, he said, 'My son, I see in a dream that I shall sacrifice thee; consider, What do you think?'

He said, 'My father, do as you are bidden; you shall find me, God willing, one of the steadfast.'

When they had surrendered, and he flung him upon his brow, We called unto him, 'Abraham, you have confirmed the vision; even so We recompense the good-doers.

This is indeed the manifest trial.'

The aayat 2:177 sums up everything you said brother...and I completely agree with what you said @ above but what is goodly loan ??? Is it limited to money/wealth only ??

And plus if allah[swt] is asking for the loan why then is it that people give millions and millions of dollars to temples, mosques, jamatkhana and other religious places ??? Is god found only in those places my brother ??

Is money the only source which allah[swt] is gonna multiply many times ?? What about deeds ??

2:177

Righteousness is not that you turn your faces to the east and the west [in prayer]. But righteous is the one who believes in God, the Last Day, the Angels, the Scripture and the Prophets; who gives his wealth in spite of love for it to kinsfolk, orphans, the poor, the wayfarer, to those who ask and to set slaves free. And (righteous are) those who pray, pay alms, honor their agreements, and are patient in (times of) poverty, ailment and during conflict. Such are the people of truth. And they are pious.

This single aayat sums up everything is it not ??

[a_27826]

Is money the only source which allah[swt] is gonna multiply many times ?? What about deeds ??

no, not only money but any "good" loan as per 002:245.
remember Hazar Imam said he wanted us to spare "time and knowledge".

while giving, "intention" counts for the giver even if receiver misuses the given (without you, before hand, knowing).

lets take 37:102-107

Abraham dreamt that he should sacrifice his young son.

They both (Abraham and his son) submitted to vision of the Abraham's dream.

But Allah intervened when the Abraham was about to sacrifice his son and rewarded them both for their "good" deeds

Quran doesn't state that the dream was from Allah.

For all we know the dream could have from Satan and the father misinterpreted the source of the dream as being from Allah.

037:105 you have confirmed the vision; even so We recompense the good-doers.

[nuseri]

To: Mr Virani.
What CRAP have you posted?
You think you are taking the readers for a ride in your Garbage truck.
The simple question asked was for how n what in Baatin......?
you wrote about divinity(does it have a name?) for How, you copy pasted matter of Tahwid of Hallaj n Budhha.
We Ismailis(you may be not one) have heard,read n understood the Farmans ,Ginans n Al Waez's sermons for above matter n not the stinky kindergarten message of outside sources as you have posted.
I have 5 more question from second posting, so the total nos of questions will be TEN. I am trying to simplify the first question again.

Baatin means hidden n Didar is seeing visually.

How is the Baatin Didar attained/blessed? and What is Baatin Didaar...?
Please answer it in min 4-6 lines without stink of Garbage.
Give to the point answer to simple questions.
Do not wreck your frustrated and tangled brain for few line answer.

[agakhani]

How is the Baatin Didar attained/blessed? and What is Baatin Didaar...?

Good question Nuseri but I doubt that nobody in this forum will give you correct answer of your above question and specially in this forum where many participants are anti Ismailism.

As per my little knowledge to attain Baatin Didar you needs to practice on "BOL, JAAP" every day received from Mowla Bapa and if you do not have bol then you can recite any name ( I will suggest you " Ya ALI" since I noticed that you have tremendous high love towards H. Ali (s.a.)) do good deeds, go JK every day, do not insult any one, start to love each other even he/she doesn't agree with your thinking.
Give Sadka/donation, give Dasond of your earning. always speak true, never lie e.t.c. and I think you can attain Baatini Didar of MHI.

Baatini Didar means you can see the "NOOR OF ALLAH" in Bandagi. Good Luck.

[nuseri]

To agakhani :Ya Ali Madad.

YAAR AAP APNA LOG IN NAAM AGAKHANI SE IMAANI KAR DALO,

AAP SHARIAT SE HAQIQAT ME JUMP LEE LO GAY.

Your reply to the point is well taken.Little more clarification needed.

Your wrote Didar of MHI (Hazar Imam) and in the next line it
was the word 'NOOR OF ALLAH'.

the enemy of Ismailism (calling him Black sheep is an insult to the sheep).
wrote the word 'Divine'.

My conviction sum up all three names to the Name 'ALI'.

IS the word Divine,Hazar Imam,ALI,Noor of Allah is one or are they different entity ?
Please expand on this.

When you wrote what name to recite,you wanted to tell ALL by addressing it to me,A nice n pleasant move.

If I were to say that "I see the smiling face of ALI everyday"
I am seeing clear and I am living in year 2013 n not 1450
years back.
GUESS whose Face?

[ismaili103]

what is the "NOOR OF ALLAH"...!

ALLAH is indeed NOOR...

[ismaili103]

i need a favor plz plz anyone here tell me the great granth to munivar bhai(moman chitveni) is written in which language....plzz tell me soon

[agakhani]

In Khojki language , but it is also available in Gujarati language too, I have this in gujarati.
Allah is light therefore he/she/it has no shape therefore he appointed Hazarat Ali as a holder of his Noor in Gadir right now the current holder of Allah's noor is our current hazar Iman.This is our faith.

[shiraz.virani]

To: Mr Virani.
What CRAP have you posted?
You think you are taking the readers for a ride in your Garbage truck.
The simple question asked was for how n what in Baatin......?

Brother you're trying too hard, tooooooooooo hard to make me loose my temper. I'm afraid its not gonna happen

I told you in the beginning of my previous post that you're trying get an answer for something that your brain cannot process.

But if you still want me to make your understand what baatin deedar is as per you then here it goes....For you allah [swt] is stuck/ caged in one human body what we call imam e zaman. He does not have free will and dies a natural death right from H.adam[as] till Shah Sultan Muhammad Shah[48th].....and currently allah[swt] is caged in the body of Shah Karim Al Hussaini Hazar Imam....Now this is what your brain can process....Now what do you look for during the deedar ??? NOOR OF ALLAH[swt], and where is that ??? Inside Shah Karim Hazar Imam.....And after the deedar when you meet your friends and family you say " Bappa ke face pe NOOR dekha ?? "..This is baatin deedar for you my friend. If one side of imam's cheek looks brighter than the other one thats noor for you, right ???... I know you gonna trash talk again regarding this but Im cool with that.

you wrote about divinity(does it have a name?) for How, you copy pasted matter of Tahwid of Hallaj n Budhha.

Are mere popat laal....Does noor have a name ??...Does a soul have a shape ?? Your's might me because you're the baap of haqiqatis ...Just like you said to agakhani bhai and I quote :

YAAR AAP APNA LOG IN NAAM AGAKHANI SE IMAANI KAR DALO,

AAP SHARIAT SE HAQIQAT ME JUMP LEE LO GAY.

See its that simple for you....Changing ones ID from Agakhani to Imaani makes Agakhani bhai LOOK lemme repeat that word LOOK haqiqati.

I know agakhani bhai on this forum for a looooong time. He is more haqiqati than you can ever be in this life....He is the biggest contributor on this forum and yet you decide that just because his ID [not even his name] is shariati he is a shariati. NUSERI BHAI KI JAI HO !!!

We Ismailis(you may be not one) have heard,read n understood the Farmans ,Ginans n Al Waez's sermons for above matter n not the stinky kindergarten message of outside sources as you have posted.

See what did I tell you that you wanna get an answer that you like...why ?? Again because your mind cannot process anything else !!!....Remember you're god fearing, not god loving.

Eji Imaan amaaro salaamat raakhjo....thats all you pray for !!!....You want you imaan to be safe and secure so that it can lay eggs in future but you never want to expand your imaan which is the prime objective of our beautiful faith

I have 5 more question from second posting, so the total nos of questions will be TEN. I am trying to simplify the first question again.

When it is practically impossible for you to understand the very 1st word of your very 1st question that you asked i.e HOW ?? How then can baap of haqiqatis understand the rest ??

Baatin means hidden n Didar is seeing visually.

Ohhoooo babaji ki jai ho !!....Glad you clarified this with us because until now I used to think that my body is inside my soul and not the soul inside my body

Do not wreck your frustrated and tangled brain for few line answer.

A person who thinks quran is fabricated yet needs clarification of certain surahs

You tell me my friend who is more tangled and frustrated ??

I'll still tell you what is baatin deedar since you asked...but there are certain things that a person should do in order to see and feel divine.....yes I said FEEL

1] HAVE BELIEF IN ONE TRUE GOD
2] BE TRUTHFUL
3] BE RIGHTEOUS [ refer to gita ]

If you can achieve these 3 things in your lifetime which I really doubt then you'll see and feel batin deedar.

Baatin deedar is not seeing glowing face of hazar imam under beautiful bright lights [during the deedar] and say YIPPEEEEE I SAW NOOR OF ALLAH....Baatin deedar is felt from within.

There are soooo many batini's in our jamat who have seen and felt the REAL noorani deedar of the divine...but you wont see them going crazy like you HAK ALI, ALI ALI ALI.....DANCE ALI, DISCO ALI....The reason why you would never get an exact answer as AGAKHANI bhai have rightly said is because those who have seen it know its worth....it is something which cannot be described but instead FELT.

They bow their head when they experience it because that day my friend they have reached a place where they not only see the divine but............THEY ARE DIVINE [MARIFAT above MARIFAT above MARIFAT]

You will never understand this nor will sister zznoor will approve of this....so you keep doing what you do the best my friend and keep us entertained

[zznoor]

Shiraz
Just like the majority of muslims think god resides only in kaaba.

Where did you get this idea that Allah reside in Kaaba.
Please do not misrepresent Islam.

Shiraz
Same thing happened to me when I went to the mosque last eid where people stood in line facing a dome... But even there....there was no trace of god

Idiotic statement. Those praying Eid Namaaz were facing Mecca. Dome happened to be in between Nanazees and Mecca. Nanazees know god does not reside in dome they are facing. They just went to worship and thank Allah SWT for (either end of Ramadan or Eid ul Adha) one should not waste his time going to Mosque if he does not know purpose of prayers.

agakhani to nuseri
do good deeds, go JK every day, do not insult any one, start to love each other even he/she doesn't agree with your thinking

nuseri cannot say anything good about non Ismailis. Call then Shariti, insults their scholars etc.

Shiraz
this nor will sister zznoor will approve of this.

Did prophet, Ali, Hassan, Hussein, Bibi Fatima ever say that they had Baatini Deedar of anybody? They were all in Grade I and never graduated beyond that.

[shiraz.virani]

Where did you get this idea that Allah reside in Kaaba.
Please do not misrepresent Islam.

Me ???...Oh no its not my idea sister....Its the idea of most of my muslim friends [who workd with me] and also the majority of educated/uneducated muslims around the world who flock this place like hindu's flock badrinath, shirdi baba temple etc etc

You dont believe in this ???.....Well Congratulations !!! ....But most of them do believe that kaaba is the house of allah[swt].....and some even go far beyond that...for them not only kaaba is the house of god but it is also a place where satan [evil] is caught and captured or atleast symbolizes satan ...D

Could you tell the readers what happens on the 3rd day of hajj rituals ?? How many stones do they throw at pillars and why ??

Idiotic statement. Those praying Eid Namaaz were facing Mecca. Dome happened to be in between Nanazees and Mecca. Nanazees know god does not reside in dome they are facing. They just went to worship and thank Allah SWT for (either end of Ramadan or Eid ul Adha) one should not waste his time going to Mosque if he does not know purpose of prayers.

So if god does not reside in some dome [which I know] and if god does not reside in mecca [as per you]....whats the purpose of doing all this rituals sister ??

Just think about it sister !!!

1] People shaving their head during pilgrimage...Why would god need hair ?? Is he gonna make a wig out of it ??? ... where does all those hair go ??...They are exported overseas...People make money out of it.

2] Throwing a stone at satan [pillars] IN THE HOUSE OF GOD....Does it even make sense to you ??

3] Zam zam water which is regarded by many muslims [AGAIN !!!] as miraculous, why ?? ...Does it cure anybody ??...Do you know about a disease called "Arsenicosis" ??[google it if you can]. Would allah[swt] allow his followers to poison themselves [by drinking zam zam water] ??

Im not abusing you or your faith.....there are the things which you may not be doing and I congratulate you for that ...but there are other sunni's, wahabi's or what not who do this...since you happen to be a sunni who else can give me the answer BUT YOU

And also please tell the viewers whether such and such things are mentioned in holy quran.

Sister zznoor, you came out with stream and strength showing ismailis what is good and bad....How about you show love to your fellow brothers and sisters ??

Did prophet, Ali, Hassan, Hussein, Bibi Fatima ever say that they had Baatini Deedar of anybody? They were all in Grade I and never graduated beyond that.

I just gave a convincing answer to this question @ above i.e.....If a person is bestowed with baatini deedar he would never say or describe it but rather feel it because a normal person would never understand how it feels to be blessed with a baatini deedar.

Lets take your example, if god willing you come face to face with god ....how will you describe that situation... would you go tell your friends Yo, God is my peep, we had lunch together ....Your friends might think you are retarded.

They are in Grade I because your brain is stuck on grade I and cannot move beyond that....Like my friend nuseri who thinks he is the baap of haqiqatis and is just 1 step/stage away from marifat

To each his own !!!

[shiraz.virani]

Sister zznoor, you came out with stream and strength showing ismailis what is good and bad....How about you show love to your fellow brothers and sisters ??

Oh lord !!!....I wanted to say "Sister zznoor, you came out with full steam and strength NOT STREAM

[nuseri]

To Virani:(guess what I was going to name you?)

You are once again with your confused CRAP

You are mixing what is called a' Baatin Didar 'A sighting experienced by own eyes' by a person of GOD/ALI who is in full senses at that time.(external)

You are defining 'Tahwid'. which is one of facets of NOORANI DIDAR'.(ALI/God within U)(internal),it comes after Baatin Didar

The question of 'Baatin' was asked to the point by me. Very nicely put up by agakhani maybe interpreted out of a' Baitul Khyaal' majlis Farman

You are just copy pasting again seeking rubbish n garbage out of frustration,it looks like you have started loosing sleep n going Bonkers

Info needed from the readers:(Answer definitely needed).

1. Is the holy place of Muslims (Kaaba) the holiest shrine of Islam ,where Mouwla ALI was born?.

2. I presume and also not sure If Kaaba is considered as 'House of GOD' by Shariati's ?

HUM TO NAAM NUSERI CUNHE HAI.

HUM NE HAMARI JAAT KI 70 QURBANI

ALI KE HUZUR MEE PESHE KI HAI.

for virani:

MERE KI LEYE TO BUS 'SUBSE BADA RUPAIYA'

BHAAD ME JAYEE MERA IMAAN AUR TARIQA.

[zznoor]

Shiraz
Sister zznoor, you came out with stream and strength showing ismailis what is good and bad....How about you show love to your fellow brothers and sisters ??

There is no need for me to teach Ismailis what is good and bad. They have their MHI and clergy. Their brand of Islam is different from Shariti Islam.
Lot of religious education and regular schooling is going on in Islamic world. Even Aga Khan has contributed lot.

Being Muslim you should understand signification of Kaaba and signification of Hujj rituals.

Google "significance of kaaba in islam"

There are many articles even including some for Muslim Children on Hujj rituals

Also Google following

Effects and purposes of Hajj
HAJJ AS WORSHIP
Hajj in Islam
The virtues of Hajj
The history of Hajj
The Values of Hajj
The educational purposes of Hajj
Hajj and its role in strengthening our faith
Devotion in Hajj

It is not fault of Islam that some Muslims go to Hujj without understanding the rituals.

I do note want waste digital ink. You can take horse to water but cannot make it drink.

[zznoor]

In speech to over 170 Islamic scholars (quakes to nuseri) your MHI said

In the face of this changing world, which was once a universe to us and is now no more than an overcrowded island, confronted with a fundamental challenge to our understanding of time, surrounded by a foreign fleet of cultural and ideological ships which have broken loose, I ask, “Do we have a clear, firm and precise understanding of what Muslim Society is to be in times to come?” And if, as I believe, the answer is uncertain, where else can we search than in the Holy Quran, and in the example of Allah’s last and final Prophet?

Speech on http://ismaili.net/speech/s760312.html

He should have said there I am "Bolta Quran" I have 10 more chapters, that would have concluded debate on U Quran

[nuseri]

To zznoor:
Our Imam is mostly invited to such seminar n conferences mainly In Islamic country. The Protocol makes him to address them (bunch of Quakes n Disasters).
The Quran is a living book ONLY IF BAATIN maina is understood.
we do have Farman advising us that.
I have said "SHARIATO KA KHALIF TUHI" AS a SECOND LINE in describing ALI.
As a Muslim leader,He speaks out of a prepared speech, as the Shariati audience (very less of secular education) only wishes to hear to the word Quran n Prophet from Him.

As a matter of fact in one of his speeches he read a Sunni Kalima,
while in Farmans we have concept of ALI allah.

This extract of the speech does NOT make him Shariati or endorse that

We follow Farmans and NOT the speeches he make.I know of over 10 speeches n his farmans contradicting at Zahiri level.

the Speeches are to specific audience of the Quakes n disaster.
you can observe What havoc the Shariati have have doing in that same country.
A simple question"WAS ALI BORN IN KAABA? IS IT LOOKED UPON AS HOUSE OF GOD OR SOMETHING AKIN TO IT".
it can be replied in just two lines.

[shiraz.virani]

To Virani:(guess what I was going to name you?)

And what does this have to do with current topic ??

You are once again with your confused CRAP

Oh I see !!!.....I'm the one who'z running from pillar to post to get an answer for my questions eh ??

You are mixing what is called a' Baatin Didar 'A sighting experienced by own eyes' by a person of GOD/ALI who is in full senses at that time.(external)

Wrong !!!....A baatin deedar is not only something seen by our naked eye but also felt from within....What you witness in all deedars is external [which is a noorani deedar for you]....not me !!!

A person does not have to run here and there...attending deedar after deedar to see god...for god is within all of us. He can be anywhere and everywhere [and not limited to ismailis].

You are defining 'Tahwid'. which is one of facets of NOORANI DIDAR'.(ALI/God within U)(internal),it comes after Baatin Didar

The question of 'Baatin' was asked to the point by me. Very nicely put up by agakhani maybe interpreted out of a' Baitul Khyaal' majlis Farman

See I told you already bro that you wanna listen to only those things that support your ali allah theory...If you tell an idol worshipper what he wants to listen, he'll sit there all day and listen to all the made up stories regarding his dummy god....Same goes with you and your theory of god.

You are just copy pasting again seeking rubbish n garbage out of frustration,it looks like you have started loosing sleep n going Bonkers

Not at all !!...Matter of fact it was you the other night [Morning where you live at] who logged in just to see whether I posted something [while you were praying [haq ali, disco ali, dandiya ali] early in the morning that I shouldn't, hehehe

Anyways you just asked my opinion regarding baatin deedar and I gave you one. You like it or you don't is completely your choice.

Btw we are still waiting to hear your answer to the question as to why you're looking to get clarification on certain aayats from usman's book [as for some] which holds no value for you ?? Care to answer ??

Info needed from the readers:(Answer definitely needed).

1. Is the holy place of Muslims (Kaaba) the holiest shrine of Islam ,where Mouwla ALI was born?.

If this question suits your ali allah theory then yes !!!....Imam Ali[as] was born in kaaba

2. I presume and also not sure If Kaaba is considered as 'House of GOD' by Shariati's ?

For some yes....but for others like zznoor and many more...no !!!

HUM TO NAAM NUSERI CUNHE HAI.

HUM NE HAMARI JAAT KI 70 QURBANI

ALI KE HUZUR MEE PESHE KI HAI.

Qurbani ??? Jaat ??.....Never heard about this before my friend, btw whats your jaat ??

for virani:

MERE KI LEYE TO BUS 'SUBSE BADA RUPAIYA'

BHAAD ME JAYEE MERA IMAAN AUR TARIQA.

Nai yaar kahan ....the only business that is recession proof is man made religions and god's that people have created.

And honestly, its not the religion that is corrupt.....its the rituals or customs that are !!!

People like you changed the whole concept of god my friend. God was and always will be our friend but fools made him into a commodity and hanged him on the wall, some wear him on their wrist and some carry him in their pocket,car etc etc

aham ātmā guḍākeśa
sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ
aham ādiś ca madhyaḿ ca
bhūtānām anta eva ca

I am the Supersoul, seated in the hearts of all living entities. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings.

Where is god Nuseri ???

vedānāḿ sāma-vedo 'smi
devānām asmi vāsavaḥ
indriyāṇāḿ manaś cāsmi
bhūtānām asmi cetanā

Of the Vedas I am the Sāma Veda; of the demigods I am Indra, the king of heaven; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force [consciousness].

Where is god Nuseri ???

purodhasāḿ ca mukhyaḿ māḿ
viddhi pārtha bṛhaspatim
senānīnām ahaḿ skandaḥ
sarasām asmi sāgaraḥ

Of priests, O Arjuna[NUSERI], know Me to be the chief, Bṛhaspati. Of generals I am Kārtikeya, and of bodies of water I am the ocean.

Where is god Nuseri ???

sargāṇām ādir antaś ca
madhyaḿ caivāham arjuna
adhyātma-vidyā vidyānāḿ
vādaḥ pravadatām aham

Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O Arjuna[NUSERI]. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the self, and among logicians I am the conclusive truth.

Where is god Nuseri ???


dyūtaḿ chalayatām asmi
tejas tejasvinām aham
jayo 'smi vyavasāyo 'smi
sattvaḿ sattvavatām aham

I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong.

Where is god Nuseri ???

daṇḍo damayatām asmi
nītir asmi jigīṣatām
maunaḿ caivāsmi guhyānāḿ
jñānaḿ jñānavatām aham

Among all means of suppressing lawlessness I am punishment, and of those who seek victory I am morality. Of secret things I am silence, and of the wise I am the wisdom.

Where is god Nuseri ???

yac cāpi sarva-bhūtānāḿ
bījaḿ tad aham arjuna
na tad asti vinā yat syān
mayā bhūtaḿ carācaram

Furthermore, O Arjuna[NUSERI], I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being — moving or nonmoving — that can exist without Me.

Where is god Nuseri ???

nānto 'sti mama divyānāḿ
vibhūtīnāḿ parantapa
eṣa tūddeśataḥ prokto
vibhūter vistaro mayā

O mighty conqueror of enemies, there is no end to My divine manifestations. What I have spoken to you is but a mere indication of My infinite opulences.

Where is god Nuseri ??...Is he hidden in some living imam or is he divided in between some mosque, temple or church ?? Where is god Nuseri ???...Where is god ???

[zznoor]

Our Imam is mostly invited to such seminar n conferences mainly In Islamic country. The Protocol makes him to address them (bunch of Quakes n Disasters).
why does he waste his time and give lip service to Quakes?does he have anything better to do?

The Quran is a living book ONLY IF BAATIN maina is understood.
we do have Farman advising us that.
Baatini meaning is not a standard stuff. Whatever fencis you you jus make it up

I have said "SHARIATO KA KHALIF TUHI" AS a SECOND LINE in describing ALI.

do you know what Ali said about people like you?
“With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority of Muslims because Allah’s hand of protection is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”
(Source: Al-Islam.org, http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/126.htm)

As a Muslim leader,He speaks out of a prepared speech, as the Shariati audience (very less of secular education) only wishes to hear to the word Quran n Prophet from Him.

you make him look like he he is unprincipled person who likes to tell his audience sweet nothing.

As a matter of fact in one of his speeches he read a Sunni Kalima,
while in Farmans we have concept of ALI allah.
Sunni Kalima is in our holy book. There is no Ali Allah Kalima in Muslim holy book

This extract of the speech does NOT make him Shariati or endorse that
what you are saying that he is Hippocrate

We follow Farmans and NOT the speeches he make.I know of over 10 speeches n his farmans contradicting at Zahiri level.
so Elephent has set of teeth to show and set to chew. What is he afraid of? Why can't he say it in pubic? You make him coward !

the Speeches are to specific audience of the Quakes n disaster.
So he practices different strokes for different folks
shame on you talking like this about your God

A simple question"WAS ALI BORN IN KAABA? IS IT LOOKED UPON AS HOUSE OF GOD OR SOMETHING AKIN TO IT".
so what? Kaaba was full of Idols so he was born surrounded by Idols and now he is your Idol and you do his Puja everyday

[shiraz.virani]

There is no need for me to teach Ismailis what is good and bad. They have their MHI and clergy. Their brand of Islam is different from Shariti Islam.

And there are 72/73 different sects in islam that feel the same way

Lot of religious education and regular schooling is going on in Islamic world. Even Aga Khan has contributed lot.

Does that help ??

Being Muslim you should understand signification of Kaaba and signification of Hujj rituals.

I do !...I don't have to google it, trust me I do. But my way of thinking is slightly different than yours and that's because you're much more religious than I'am !!!

Effects and purposes of Hajj
HAJJ AS WORSHIP
Hajj in Islam
The virtues of Hajj
The history of Hajj
The Values of Hajj
The educational purposes of Hajj
Hajj and its role in strengthening our faith
Devotion in Hajj

Samething goes with Ismailism sister. Like effects,benefits,virtues of deedar of Imam e zaman....Here my ismaili brothers have idolized our imam and there on your side people have idolized the black stone. I dont see the difference at all when it comes to rituals.

It is not fault of Islam that some Muslims go to Hujj without understanding the rituals.

It never was sister....It never was !!....Islam itself means peace but unfortunately as I have said earlier, we have made it into pieces to suit our way of thinking.

I do note want waste digital ink. You can take horse to water but cannot make it drink.

RAJANIKANTH can !!!

[nuseri]

To: zznoor:

It is sad that you do not read the answers or the statement properly.
I said protocol ,which is like defined obligations he has to address the bunch of disasters.

What is the point of addressing quakes with the word like happiness,brotherhood, charity ,intellect, science ,concern for women .which amuses,annoy n angers those listeners because those very thing they are out to DESTROY.

I wrote at "Zahir" level the speech n Farmans differ at Baatin level we see no contradiction, as speeches are audience specific.

You answer WHY WHY WHY the world is calling you Shariatis as 'Absolutely ROTTEN human beings.

Please do not reach into conclusion if he said this or that,you reconstruct the phrase and use the words like Liar,hypocrite,coward etc for our Imam.
A mild word is diplomatic,which every leader should be.

That is the opinion you carry it is sad that you are enemy of your own soul.(Intense imbalance/conflict between mind n soul) The first sign in this world is prostate Cancer.

Be very careful of your after life for your soul.
NAFRAT ALI PEE HAI AAFAT TUMARI.

[shiraz.virani]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKzDtYJR2b4

nuseri ???...Im still waiting to get an answer from you

...Where is god ???

[nuseri]

To Virani:

It seems to look like you are barking to the hilt and gone ballistic and openly showed your immense hatred for Ismailis.

I see you JUST cannot walk without crutches,(external crap),it shows your intellectual bankruptcy you need to be sent to a Looney bin

I will only say what I see n perceive and not from any books.

Where is GOD ????
In absolute Human form ,he is our Hazar Imam (ALI) of the Shia Imami Ismailis.

The spark/rays of the GOD/ALI is in every human being (that is the soul.)
Each human being has the opportunity to find,communicate n unify within itself with the source/ALI when alive.

You may have copy pasted work of Sufis/Saga of different faith as you are confused where is GOD?,In order to safe guard your RUBBISH,you are taking multiple quotes/Chances.

It IS the Imam of the time which is acknowledging the prayer of each human beings on earth.

All religions and Faith have different view of Where is GOD?

I suggest you read Shams Tabriz,Nasir Khusraw and our Pirs on a Sufi perception n answer to Where is GOD/ALI?.

[Admin]

I request all participants not to attack individuals or criticize people posting here.

Criticizing ideas and stands is one thing, it is acceptable. Criticizing people is not acceptable.

Using mean and offensive language is also not acceptable. Discussions should remain in the boundary of politeness, even when the discussion is with your worst enemy.

[ShamsB]

To Sister ZZNOOR:

With a lot of respect, I say this; I think we better agree to disagree as a whole; as you have seen you haven't been able to convince us with your arguements and neither have we won you over with ours.

Let's just say both are right and leave it at that.

An intellectual discussion can only be had if both sides give up their biases; and neither side here is willing to do that.

And our Imam did say He is the Bolta Quran - Sunni Historians recorded Hazrat Ali presenting the chronologically compiled complete Quran to Uthman who knew it to be the the TRUE QURAN but Uthman rejected it at that time. What makes you think anyone will accept it today? Even you rejected the claims and are asking for more proof.

Anyways - using vernacular and proofs that you'll understand i.e. Verses from the Quran

Surah Kafiroon (109:6)
لَکُمۡ دِیۡنُکُمۡ وَلِیَ دِیۡنِ
Lakum dinukum wa-liya dini

"For you is your faith and for me, mine"

You will not win any converts here. Maybe a more shariati site would be more appropriate for you, versus the apostates on this one.
I think with your perspective if Rumi and Hafiz and Omar Khayyam and Tabrez were around along with Al Hallaj - you'd still put them to death today.

Let me put it more succinctly - if this belief system that I have is the sure fire path to Hell for eternity - then I want a FIRST CLASS TICKET.
If following the Imam-e-Zamaan is wrong - then I don't want to be right.

The Prophet has said - Ali is not with the TRUTH, rather the TRUTH IS WHERE ALI IS.

I am happy in my faith as are others here.

With a lot of apologies if I have hurt any feelings or ego.

Shams

[zznoor]

There is no dispute that Quran is not in chronological order.
Majority believe that prophet was divinely inspired to insert passages in present order.
If someone presents Quran in true chronological order there will be no problem.
There is existing disagreement among scholars wether passages are Makki or Madini! They cannot even resolve that.

BTW
Unless you consider yourself Kaffir, do not use Sura Al Kafirun as defense. Sura is addressed to Kaffirs, that is non believers in Islam.

Take care

[ShamsB]

There is no dispute that Quran is not in chronological order.
Majority believe that prophet was divinely inspired to insert passages in present order.
If someone presents Quran in true chronological order there will be no problem.
There is existing disagreement among scholars wether passages are Makki or Madini! They cannot even resolve that.

BTW
Unless you consider yourself Kaffir, do not use Sura Al Kafirun as defense. Sura is addressed to Kaffirs, that is non believers in Islam.

Take care

I thought the entire Qu'ran was for Muslims?

From your posts - it seems you consider us Kafiroon - not accepting our interpretation of the Faith that the Prophet brought.

Like I said - to you yours..to me/us - mine/ours.

Shams

[agakhani]

Let me put it more succinctly - if this belief system that I have is the sure fire path to Hell for eternity - then I want a FIRST CLASS TICKET.
If following the Imam-e-Zamaan is wrong - then I don't want to be right.

ShamsB,

Waah Bhai waah!! what a great answer and faith in Imam-e-Zamaan, very decent answer to sister ZZNoor I will also come with you with FIRST CLASS TICKET in hell if some one proves me ; that my Ismaili religion is wrong!

I salute you brother for great answer.

[agakhani]

BTW
Unless you consider yourself Kaffir, do not use Sura Al Kafirun as defense. Sura is addressed to Kaffirs, that is non believers in Islam

Reciting or posting 'Sura al Kafirun' doesn't mean that the person who is reciting or posting this Sura is Kafir! I know that this sura was first revealed to addressed to the Kafiruns.

I heard this sura reciting, pointing, addressing many Mullah, Molwis and missionaries and they didn't counted themselves as Kafirs.Or they didn't feel that reciting this Sura will automatically put in Kafirun stage.

What a humbug talk, sister!! Let me ask you this when you tilawat Noble Quran then are you skiping this Sura?? GIVE ME HONEST REPLY, IF YOU READ THIS SURA THEN YOU ARE ALSO KAFIR.

[shiraz.virani]

I will only say what I see n perceive and not from any books.

For the 1st time on this forum my friend, you spoke truth !!!....You said what you perceive or in other words it is your interpretation that ali is demigod.

Where is GOD ????
In absolute Human form ,he is our Hazar Imam (ALI) of the Shia Imami Ismailis.

Now what you have described @ above is an idol.....I'm asking you where is god ??? ....And if we are to agree with your interpretation of god =ali, then what about those who are not ismailis ??...What about those who does not recognize the imam of the time [but their deeds are as godly and god himself]....what about them ?? Will they go in heaven ??

What is your take on hindus, sikh's, jews, christians or an atheist who are kind hearted, who give charity, do good....what about them ??

The spark/rays of the GOD/ALI is in every human being (that is the soul.)
Each human being has the opportunity to find,communicate n unify within itself with the source/ALI when alive.

Agreed !!!....If the spark [soul] is in every human being then why limit god only to the imams[as] ??....You're rejecting your own arguement of ali allah theory @ above where on 1 hand god is hidden or exclusively in imams[as] and on the other hand god is in every human being....That's the reason why I asked you where is god ???

32:7-9 He Who has made everything which He has created most Good. He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay, And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him [something] of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!

You may have copy pasted work of Sufis/Saga of different faith as you are confused where is GOD?,In order to safe guard your RUBBISH,you are taking multiple quotes/Chances.

The faith of the human being has always been the same my friend....its people like you who divided god into religions and sects....For you hinduism might be different because they worship idols, What are you doing ??...Are you any different from them ??

It IS the Imam of the time which is acknowledging the prayer of each human beings on earth.

Aha !!....And what do you think allah[swt] is doing ??? Playing POKER ??

All religions and Faith have different view of Where is GOD?

There is only one god as per all the scriptures and religions and he is anywhere & everywhere [not limited to ismaili imams]. Did you ever asked yourself as to why people have different views as to where is god ??...Who taught them ?? Was it god himself or in their desperation they created their own idols ?? Huh ??

I suggest you read Shams Tabriz,Nasir Khusraw and our Pirs on a Sufi perception n answer to Where is GOD/ALI?.

Do you know who Ibn Sina is ??...Try to read his book "Floating Man" [Regarding the soul]