Yam everyone!
I was just thinking about Pirs and Ginans, etc. I was wondering who was the first Pir - I know the Imam might have maintained Pirtan, but who was the first one. Also, another question I had was that does the Imam know that he will be the next Imam(Is he born as Imam) or does he find out when the previous Imam passes away. I rmr Hazar Imam telling the press that he found out he was the next Imam through MSMS's will, and the Imam would not lie. I also read on the message board, which I cannot guarantee the authenticity of, that Imam Hussain when he was young was sitting on Imam Ali's lap and Salman Farsi asked him "Do you know where you father is from?"(Or something like that. This is posted under the Adam section). Imam Hussain replied by saying he was here before there were 50,000 adams or something. I guess it could be that the Imams lineage is just divine in general. Thanks in advance for your responses
Pirs
There has been extensive discussion on Pirtan in this forum at:
Doctrines --> Pir and Prophet. You may want to go there.
On the issue of whether the Imam knows whether he will be the next Imam, the following is an excerpt from the IIS publication which will hopefully answer the question.
“If mankind knew what the Imamate is, no one would have entertained doubts such as these. If only they had realized that mutability cannot exist without some immutable central point, just as the circumference cannot exist without the centre point. For everything that rotates or moves requires a cause for its rotation and movement, and the moving force in relation to the object which rotates and moves must be stable and perfect, in order to be able to spin or move it. This is why it has been said in the Gospels: ‘Heaven and earth will change, but the commandment of the Sabbath will never be altered.’ This means that while the Prophets and the Hujjats may change – at one time this one, at another time that one, at one time in this community, at another time in that – the Imam will never change: ‘We are the people of eternity’. The essential nature of the Imam will never change, even when he is a drop of sperm in the loins of his father, or a fetus in the womb of his mother. It is a total impossibility to suppose that the true Imam could cease to exist, and the case of the acting (Mustawda) Imam such as our Lord (Mawlana) Hasan, could be any different. In reality, it is impossible for any past or future Imam to be better or more powerful than another, or to be better at one time than at another time. For example, it is wrong to suppose that he should be better when he reaches maturity than when he was a drop of sperm, or better when the designation was made than before it was made. The designation which is made is not in order to make him an Imam; it is only made so that people should recognize him as such – otherwise, from his standpoint and perspective, all such different states are one and the same. Such is the case because a perfect man must always exist amongst God’s creatures in order to raise those who are incomplete and deficient to a state of perfection. Even if you assume that he is not that person there would still have to be someone else. For if each imperfect soul needs a more perfect soul to perfect it, and the more perfect soul, in its turn, needs an even more perfect one, and in the final case, the chain must terminate with the perfect man who does not need anybody else, and through whose instruction all others may reach perfection. Such a perfect man is a logical necessity and the matter must ultimately finish there with him.”
- Mawlana Imam Hasan ala-dhikrihi al-salaam,
(quoted by Nasir al-Din al-Tusi, The Paradise of Submission, translated by Jalal Badakhchani, pp. 123)
Doctrines --> Pir and Prophet. You may want to go there.
On the issue of whether the Imam knows whether he will be the next Imam, the following is an excerpt from the IIS publication which will hopefully answer the question.
“If mankind knew what the Imamate is, no one would have entertained doubts such as these. If only they had realized that mutability cannot exist without some immutable central point, just as the circumference cannot exist without the centre point. For everything that rotates or moves requires a cause for its rotation and movement, and the moving force in relation to the object which rotates and moves must be stable and perfect, in order to be able to spin or move it. This is why it has been said in the Gospels: ‘Heaven and earth will change, but the commandment of the Sabbath will never be altered.’ This means that while the Prophets and the Hujjats may change – at one time this one, at another time that one, at one time in this community, at another time in that – the Imam will never change: ‘We are the people of eternity’. The essential nature of the Imam will never change, even when he is a drop of sperm in the loins of his father, or a fetus in the womb of his mother. It is a total impossibility to suppose that the true Imam could cease to exist, and the case of the acting (Mustawda) Imam such as our Lord (Mawlana) Hasan, could be any different. In reality, it is impossible for any past or future Imam to be better or more powerful than another, or to be better at one time than at another time. For example, it is wrong to suppose that he should be better when he reaches maturity than when he was a drop of sperm, or better when the designation was made than before it was made. The designation which is made is not in order to make him an Imam; it is only made so that people should recognize him as such – otherwise, from his standpoint and perspective, all such different states are one and the same. Such is the case because a perfect man must always exist amongst God’s creatures in order to raise those who are incomplete and deficient to a state of perfection. Even if you assume that he is not that person there would still have to be someone else. For if each imperfect soul needs a more perfect soul to perfect it, and the more perfect soul, in its turn, needs an even more perfect one, and in the final case, the chain must terminate with the perfect man who does not need anybody else, and through whose instruction all others may reach perfection. Such a perfect man is a logical necessity and the matter must ultimately finish there with him.”
- Mawlana Imam Hasan ala-dhikrihi al-salaam,
(quoted by Nasir al-Din al-Tusi, The Paradise of Submission, translated by Jalal Badakhchani, pp. 123)