Elders of the Jamat versus Pluralism

[ngangji]

Aapni Naath chhori means severing relationship with our Master (MHI). The Peer is telling us not to have relationship with any other master at the expense of the relationship with the Imam. So long as you are steadfast in your relationship with the Imam, other relationships including personal are possible (though difficult to maintain). <BR><BR>Thank you very much for elaborating the gist of the above verse.&nbsp;&nbsp; We were always taught that it meant not to marry outside our religion.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have taught my kids the same, yet have had no courage to admit that I myself question it.&nbsp; <BR><BR>But my children do question it, yet obey what their mother has taught them.&nbsp; o&shy;nce again, I'm thankful for this site and the numerous discussions--what a sea of knowledge, wisdom, and togetherness![/i]

[kmaherali]

It is in Memoirs of Aga Khan.
Since he was shia of the narrowest outlook he concentrated his most ferocious hatred not on non muslims, not even on those who persecuted the Prophet, his daughter and two grand children, His son in law Ali and about four or five of the closest companions of Hazrat Ali,all others were enemies of God and His Prophet, who had striven to encompass the Prophet’s death and after His death had brutally murdered Ali__ His adoped Son and natural Successor and Ali’s Sons, His beloved Grand children.

YAM,

This statement is not accurate. I checked the "Memoirs" and it seems there is a problem with the statement in it as well. I suggest you delete it.

Also you have quoted various disjoint statements which make it appear that it is all a single continuous statement. Please make marks such "..." after each disjoint statement.

[star_munir]

Mowla Ali Madad
As you wrote,"This statement is not accurate. I checked the "Memoirs" and it seems there is a problem with the statement in it as well. I suggest you delete it. "
ok I will delete it but first let me know the problem. Do you mean I have written wrong or there is some thing different written in book of Memoirs which you have or what regarding this statement..
I quoted it here as it is related to the topic of pluralism..As the teacher was narrowminded and thought every one who not believes to his interpretation of Islam will go to hell.....
Also I sent you private message today so reply me soon.

[kmaherali]

Mowla Ali Madad
As you wrote,"This statement is not accurate. I checked the "Memoirs" and it seems there is a problem with the statement in it as well. I suggest you delete it. "
ok I will delete it but first let me know the problem. Do you mean I have written wrong or there is some thing different written in book of Memoirs which you have or what regarding this statement..
I quoted it here as it is related to the topic of pluralism..As the teacher was narrowminded and thought every one who not believes to his interpretation of Islam will go to hell.....
Also I sent you private message today so reply me soon.

In my opinion this statement has been misquoted in the Memoirs. It does not make sense to me.

[star_munir]

Aashaajee Heendu musalmaan Shaah-jee naa jeevdda
kenee bhraant na kaaddho jee
sahu jeev malshe Shaah jeene paase
lekhaa leshe Naaraayann.................Haree anant..177

Oh Lord The Hindus and the Muslims are all the souls of the Lord
do not bring out the doubts(errors) of others
All the souls will meet in the presence of the Lord
and the Lord will take account of all actions done by
them
Haree You are eternal...

Aashaajee Heendu musalmaan sarve ekttha
te rup karyaa Naaraayann jee
sahu koi yaan eysaa jaanne
pann orkhyaa vinaa andhaaraa............Haree anant..180

Oh Lord The Hindus and the Muslims all together are one being
the Lord has given them different forms and shapes
Everybody here knows it as such
but without real recognition of this fact it is all
darkness
Haree You are eternal...

[star_munir]

Farman of Hazir Imam
"You must work together with mutual forbearance and with repect for each other. Only thus shall we achieve the harmony and happiness which is necessary for the true advancement of our faith."
[Kampala October 25,1957]

[unnalhaq]

I feel vindicated atlas! By the recent Farman in Vancouver, Canada June 10, 2005; For posting that I respect the Ginans (the Traditions) and I do not follow/believe in them and saying that one thing that is common is The Imam. May be someone can post the exact (unedited) text of the Farman.

[star_munir]

With regards to Pluralism in One Farman Hazir Imam says,"..And within that context of building bridges with other people remember that your faith is yours." [October 24,1986 Nairobi]

[unnalhaq]

I was commenting on the connection that kmaherali drew from the translation of Qurainc verse sura Al- Fajr 89:1-5 to Das Avtar. It is cute when people quote or state a few lines with out stating or reading the entire passage in its context.

What would be your interpretation of the verses?

I know it has been some time (about six months) since I was asked about Sura Al-Fajar 89. As I was asked to give my take on it and I have read this entire Sura all 30 Ayyas over and over and once The entire Book as well. And I had a chance research it in the region of its’ origin or revelation where the native language and translation can be viewed in both 9th centaury and today’s time. And I must add that just researching this Sura has allowed me to declare my intentions for Pilgrimage in next 5yrs God willing during those 10 days as the Sura refers to.
The first five Ayyas refers to the 10 first ten days of Dhul-Hijj.
Ayyas 6-13 Refers to Pyramids that were built by Pharaoh and Pharaoh’s terror on the slaves (Hebrew slaves) and how “God poured on them different but sever tormented.”
Ayyas 14-20 Talks about helping the poor and warns against infringing the rights of poor and orphans (You could say, not fulfilling: alms/ tithes /zakat).
Ayyas 21-30 Talks about the Day of Judgment.

[kmaherali]

I know it has been some time (about six months) since I was asked about Sura Al-Fajar 89. As I was asked to give my take on it and I have read this entire Sura all 30 Ayyas over and over and once The entire Book as well. And I had a chance research it in the region of its’ origin or revelation where the native language and translation can be viewed in both 9th centaury and today’s time. And I must add that just researching this Sura has allowed me to declare my intentions for Pilgrimage in next 5yrs God willing during those 10 days as the Sura refers to.
The first five Ayyas refers to the 10 first ten days of Dhul-Hijj.

Thanks for sharing the results of your intensive research on this subject. As my knowledge about the pilgrimage is not very good, I have a few questions. The first five ayats state:

89:1 - I swear by the Dawn
89:2 - And the Ten Nights,
89:3 - And the Even and the Odd,
89:4 - And the night when it departeth,
89:5 - There surely is an oath for thinking man

Could you provide us with the explanation of the highlighted terms in the context of the pilgrimage. Why 10 days? Thanks!

[unnalhaq]

I know it has been some time (about six months) since I was asked about Sura Al-Fajar 89. As I was asked to give my take on it and I have read this entire Sura all 30 Ayyas over and over and once The entire Book as well. And I had a chance research it in the region of its’ origin or revelation where the native language and translation can be viewed in both 9th centaury and today’s time. And I must add that just researching this Sura has allowed me to declare my intentions for Pilgrimage in next 5yrs God willing during those 10 days as the Sura refers to.
The first five Ayyas refers to the 10 first ten days of Dhul-Hijj.

Thanks for sharing the results of your intensive research on this subject. As my knowledge about the pilgrimage is not very good, I have a few questions. The first five ayats state:

89:1 - I swear by the Dawn
89:2 - And the Ten Nights,
89:3 - And the Even and the Odd,
89:4 - And the night when it departeth,
89:5 - There surely is an oath for thinking man

Could you provide us with the explanation of the highlighted terms in the context of the pilgrimage. Why 10 days? Thanks!

The Dawn is the First morning of Dhul-Hijj and the following Ten day are the Hajj ritual and ceremonies and reenactment and remembering of Ismail's Birth. The Even can be interpreted as God's Creations mainly male and female and Odd being God Himself; whereas the evens pilgrimage to the Odd. OR Some would tell people would tell you that out of 5 prays, 4 (even)are during Day-Light times and the 5th (odd) is after sun set or as an Ismaili you'd have one (odd) in the morning DUA and two (even) in the evening DUA. The Aya 4 is the dusk of the 10 day period. If you understand the Middle-Eastern culture you would know that when you are talking or explaining something or a process you need to encapsulate, sort of like parenthesis so "(" would be Aya 1 the Dawn and ")" would be Aya 4 the Dusk. But for you to understand or research something beyond the literal translation you need to read an entire Sura and some times finding out what was the time (even though Quran is timeless) or occasion the Sura was reveled and it's chronological order, meaning what was before that Suar and after.