YAM,
Out of curiousity, does anyone know if there are any Bohra (Vohra) or Druze mosques in Vancouver?... I would assume these two are the ones closest to us Ismailis and would be curious to know how they practice in their mosque or whatever they might call it.
Thanks!
S786
Bohra or Druze Mosque in Vancouver?
I would imagine that they would be practising their faith as it was practised during the Fatimid period with minor ajustments. They would be reciting namaz and observing the fasts etc as the Ismailis during the Fatimid period did.
There has also been discussion on this in this forum under:
Current Issues --> Differences in belief between Boharas and Nizaris.
There has also been discussion on this in this forum under:
Current Issues --> Differences in belief between Boharas and Nizaris.
Ya Ali madad!
There is a Bohra mosque in the southern suburbs of Chicago. I really shocked them when I went there (I know they wore white, so I wore a white shalwar kurta). I really seemed like an outsider and didn't get any straight answers from the guy I spoke with.
I think being closed, as far as discussing the religion with outsiders, runs through the entire Ismaili tradition, Nizari and Musta'li.
For what it's worth, their mosque was absolutely beautiful. Far beautiful, in my humble opinion, than even al-Haram in Mekkah.
As far as a Bohra jamaat in Vancouver, on Mumineen, a Bohra website, I found this information.
Mowla hafiz,
ON
There is a Bohra mosque in the southern suburbs of Chicago. I really shocked them when I went there (I know they wore white, so I wore a white shalwar kurta). I really seemed like an outsider and didn't get any straight answers from the guy I spoke with.
I think being closed, as far as discussing the religion with outsiders, runs through the entire Ismaili tradition, Nizari and Musta'li.
For what it's worth, their mosque was absolutely beautiful. Far beautiful, in my humble opinion, than even al-Haram in Mekkah.
As far as a Bohra jamaat in Vancouver, on Mumineen, a Bohra website, I found this information.
Mowla hafiz,
ON
About Bohras, I ws in Cairo recently and went to visit the Mowlana al-Hakim MOsque. It is now under the control of Bohras from India who have renovated it. At 6 pm, lots of Bohras [men and women] came in white dress, it was a special feeling to listen to all those people speaking Gujrati in Cairo...
Nagib
Nagib
This is interesting. Would you know how many are there and what do they do in Cairo? This together with the Al Azhar park will rekindle interest in the Fatimid phase of its history. For most locals Fatimid period is kind of in the back burner. Very few know about it.nagib wrote:About Bohras, I ws in Cairo recently and went to visit the Mowlana al-Hakim MOsque. It is now under the control of Bohras from India who have renovated it. At 6 pm, lots of Bohras [men and women] came in white dress, it was a special feeling to listen to all those people speaking Gujrati in Cairo...
Nagib
Ya Ali madad!
As far as the Druze as concerned, trying to find a group might be useless. The Druze are secretive about their religion. They, furthermore, do not recognize converts. The higher beliefs and practices of the religion are kept even from members of the religion.
The Druze divide their society into two groups: the elders (uqqal) and the ignorant (juhhal). The elders lead the group, know the religion's doctrines and practices, observe certain rules, and have access to the religion's sacred texts. The ignorant serve the elders.
For more information, I recommend Wikipedia. I suppose one would learn more about the Druze from academic or scholarly writings than talking to the Druze. I do not think they would be even willing to discuss their religion. Their reasons for not doing so resemble and are different from those of other Isma'ili groups.
I think the main reason is similar to why the discussion of doctrines, theology, and practices is restricted among the faithful of Bohra and Aga Khani Isma'ilism. There is a system of restricting knowledge: giving to a person what he/she is recognized to be prepared for. Those who are not seen to be prepared are not told. Outsiders are always part of those who are seen as not prepared.
However, an outsider may eventually have access to the restricted by becoming a member of the faith and advance in the learning and comprehension of the group's fundamental doctrines, theology, and practices. I suppose an outsider, once he/she becomes an insider, advances like any other insider. But for the Druze this does not exist: an outsider (non-Druze) is always an outsider, as conversion is not recognized.
For what it's worth, from what I have read, the Bohras are far more restrictive than Nizari Ismailis. For more information on the Bohras, I recommend Mullahs on the Mainframe by Jonah Blank. (I have this book: it's simply fascinating and marvelous!)
Mowla hafiz,
ON
As far as the Druze as concerned, trying to find a group might be useless. The Druze are secretive about their religion. They, furthermore, do not recognize converts. The higher beliefs and practices of the religion are kept even from members of the religion.
The Druze divide their society into two groups: the elders (uqqal) and the ignorant (juhhal). The elders lead the group, know the religion's doctrines and practices, observe certain rules, and have access to the religion's sacred texts. The ignorant serve the elders.
For more information, I recommend Wikipedia. I suppose one would learn more about the Druze from academic or scholarly writings than talking to the Druze. I do not think they would be even willing to discuss their religion. Their reasons for not doing so resemble and are different from those of other Isma'ili groups.
I think the main reason is similar to why the discussion of doctrines, theology, and practices is restricted among the faithful of Bohra and Aga Khani Isma'ilism. There is a system of restricting knowledge: giving to a person what he/she is recognized to be prepared for. Those who are not seen to be prepared are not told. Outsiders are always part of those who are seen as not prepared.
However, an outsider may eventually have access to the restricted by becoming a member of the faith and advance in the learning and comprehension of the group's fundamental doctrines, theology, and practices. I suppose an outsider, once he/she becomes an insider, advances like any other insider. But for the Druze this does not exist: an outsider (non-Druze) is always an outsider, as conversion is not recognized.
For what it's worth, from what I have read, the Bohras are far more restrictive than Nizari Ismailis. For more information on the Bohras, I recommend Mullahs on the Mainframe by Jonah Blank. (I have this book: it's simply fascinating and marvelous!)
Mowla hafiz,
ON
There is a large community of Druze in the Arab section of Jerusalem.ONiazi wrote:Ya Ali madad!
As far as the Druze as concerned, trying to find a group might be useless. The Druze are secretive about their religion. They, furthermore, do not recognize converts. The higher beliefs and practices of the religion are kept even from members of the religion.
The Druze divide their society into two groups: the elders (uqqal) and the ignorant (juhhal). The elders lead the group, know the religion's doctrines and practices, observe certain rules, and have access to the religion's sacred texts. The ignorant serve the elders.
For more information, I recommend Wikipedia. I suppose one would learn more about the Druze from academic or scholarly writings than talking to the Druze. I do not think they would be even willing to discuss their religion. Their reasons for not doing so resemble and are different from those of other Isma'ili groups.
I think the main reason is similar to why the discussion of doctrines, theology, and practices is restricted among the faithful of Bohra and Aga Khani Isma'ilism. There is a system of restricting knowledge: giving to a person what he/she is recognized to be prepared for. Those who are not seen to be prepared are not told. Outsiders are always part of those who are seen as not prepared.
However, an outsider may eventually have access to the restricted by becoming a member of the faith and advance in the learning and comprehension of the group's fundamental doctrines, theology, and practices. I suppose an outsider, once he/she becomes an insider, advances like any other insider. But for the Druze this does not exist: an outsider (non-Druze) is always an outsider, as conversion is not recognized.
For what it's worth, from what I have read, the Bohras are far more restrictive than Nizari Ismailis. For more information on the Bohras, I recommend Mullahs on the Mainframe by Jonah Blank. (I have this book: it's simply fascinating and marvelous!)
Mowla hafiz,
ON
I know this is somewhat off the topic.
Shams
When you say "Mowlana al-Hakim Mosque". Are you referring to Al-Hakimbi Amrillah ?nagib wrote:About Bohras, I ws in Cairo recently and went to visit the Mowlana al-Hakim MOsque. It is now under the control of Bohras from India who have renovated it. At 6 pm, lots of Bohras [men and women] came in white dress, it was a special feeling to listen to all those people speaking Gujrati in Cairo...
Nagib
ONiazi, What is so fascinating about the book Mullahs o­n the Main frame by Johan Blank? It is the propoganda of the present dai and his people. Even Blank agreed that he had not known about the "atrocities" that were being committed in the name of the Dai against the dissenters, e.g. like desecrecating graves, especially o­ne of a wife of a prominent Bohora person who refused to hand over the land that the present Mullah has built a hospital o­n, and pouring kerosene o­n the opponents and setting them ablaze, etc. There is a Bohora site, not the malumaat or mumineen. but another o­ne, I do not truly remember, which is created by Asgharali Engineer. You can visit that site and see what the followers of dai are doing, not forgetting, how much money they extract from their followers. Blank was totally blank about this. And God forbid somebody in your family passes away, the Mullahs sit like hungry lions waiting for their prey, and their prey is the surviving spouse or family members. I have bohora friends from whom I have come to learn this. They are now Ithansheris. I have seen the Johan Blank book and I put it aside after a few pages because this is not what is practiced by the Dai and his family.<BR><BR>Virgo2<BR><BR>