I always thought, Human's Personaliy is Totally Based on the Enviroment and the parent's Attention they make for there kids.. if the Enviroment is Bad and Parents attention is not that good, CHild or the Human will be Spoiled, So WHY ROOH/SOUL has to Suffer the Pain .. Like HELL
Like the Question is ... If A Child gets the good RELIGIOUS EDUCATION he will be the Good MAN / ELSE will be the BAD .. Is there ANY Involvement of ROOH for the Child to become Good/BAD??
When the Child is BORN, he is very innocent and he knows nothing.. Eventually he learns Good/bad thingz from this World...
I hope u r getting my question
WHY always HUMAN's SOUL has to Suffer the Pain After Death??
These are my views...
I will begin with the fundamental premise of Islam, that is, Allah is merciful and kind. Creation is meant for our ultimate good and whatever we experience is also for our ultimate good.
In Islam there is no dichotomy, the promises of the paradise of the hereafter can be actually realized in this life. If an individual is leaving a life of complete submission, he/she is enjoying paradise here and now.
Sometimes in our moments of ignorance and neglect, we tend to deviate from the Right Path. Allah in his infinite mercy punishes us to bring us back to the path of paradise. In that sense what appears as punishment or hell is really a blessing.
All apparent experiences of hell whether in this life or the hereafter are all meant to purify us and bring us to paradise ultimately.
I will begin with the fundamental premise of Islam, that is, Allah is merciful and kind. Creation is meant for our ultimate good and whatever we experience is also for our ultimate good.
In Islam there is no dichotomy, the promises of the paradise of the hereafter can be actually realized in this life. If an individual is leaving a life of complete submission, he/she is enjoying paradise here and now.
Sometimes in our moments of ignorance and neglect, we tend to deviate from the Right Path. Allah in his infinite mercy punishes us to bring us back to the path of paradise. In that sense what appears as punishment or hell is really a blessing.
All apparent experiences of hell whether in this life or the hereafter are all meant to purify us and bring us to paradise ultimately.
What is The Fault of ROOH to Be Borned Under BAD FAMILY ????
You are right Absoultly
but my question was little different then u expected ..
u said a ROOH get all the "expreiences"
OK.. RIGHT .. 100%
Let's Take 1 example .. to give u a better view of my question
Let us Assusme
Example 1
A Child name "ALI" is Born in "Pakistan"<== in a Muslim NOT Welled Of Family, Getting a BAD Religious Education. HE IS UN-FORTUNATE (Bcoz His parents TRAINED HIM BAD) and thu he BORNED in Muslim Family thats a PLUS for him. but He does Bad things like Lieing, Stealing, Jealously ETC
A Child name "ARJUN" is Born in "India " <== in a Hindu Family let us Assume his Attitude is very Good. let us assume His Parents Trained him well later On he Become a very Good person. he helps other pplz.. In the end.
NOW, WHO WILL Goto the Paradise Here After ALI/ARJUN .. u tell me?
Now we are Ismailies, We have a Living Guide, we are In a TO THE POINT PATH or DIRECT PATH, for those who doesn't have IMAM/Guide. Mostly they are very confused pplz.
We think, we are Fortunate, NOW tell me about them, Y others are Unfortunate??? Some Child get a Good religious Education. and in the End he will go to Heaven. BCOZ he is LUCKY to have it ... other will not.. Bcoz they are unlucky. What was the Fault of ROOH .. to be Borned Under a Hindu Family ???.. What is the Fault of Rooh to Belong in the Muslim, But not Educated Family.
Who will of TWO ALI/ Arujun goto paradise ?? .. if u Say ALI will not goto Paradise?? Y not ?? What was Ali's Fault ?? he didn't born in a well off Family is that his Fault ???
but my question was little different then u expected ..
u said a ROOH get all the "expreiences"
OK.. RIGHT .. 100%
Let's Take 1 example .. to give u a better view of my question
Let us Assusme
Example 1
A Child name "ALI" is Born in "Pakistan"<== in a Muslim NOT Welled Of Family, Getting a BAD Religious Education. HE IS UN-FORTUNATE (Bcoz His parents TRAINED HIM BAD) and thu he BORNED in Muslim Family thats a PLUS for him. but He does Bad things like Lieing, Stealing, Jealously ETC
A Child name "ARJUN" is Born in "India " <== in a Hindu Family let us Assume his Attitude is very Good. let us assume His Parents Trained him well later On he Become a very Good person. he helps other pplz.. In the end.
NOW, WHO WILL Goto the Paradise Here After ALI/ARJUN .. u tell me?
Now we are Ismailies, We have a Living Guide, we are In a TO THE POINT PATH or DIRECT PATH, for those who doesn't have IMAM/Guide. Mostly they are very confused pplz.
We think, we are Fortunate, NOW tell me about them, Y others are Unfortunate??? Some Child get a Good religious Education. and in the End he will go to Heaven. BCOZ he is LUCKY to have it ... other will not.. Bcoz they are unlucky. What was the Fault of ROOH .. to be Borned Under a Hindu Family ???.. What is the Fault of Rooh to Belong in the Muslim, But not Educated Family.
Who will of TWO ALI/ Arujun goto paradise ?? .. if u Say ALI will not goto Paradise?? Y not ?? What was Ali's Fault ?? he didn't born in a well off Family is that his Fault ???
Regardless of background, everyone one of us is destined for paradise. That is the essential nature and purpose of creation. All appearances of hell are only temporary and they are only meant to purify. So nobody is condemned to hell for ever.
If a person is not given proper education and training, he/she will learn from experience and reflection and will eventually be purified.
So all of us will end up in heaven. There is no permanent hell.
If a person is not given proper education and training, he/she will learn from experience and reflection and will eventually be purified.
So all of us will end up in heaven. There is no permanent hell.
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star_munir
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As you wrote,"Regardless of background, everyone one of us is destined for paradise. That is the essential nature and purpose of creation. All appearances of hell are only temporary and they are only meant to purify"
Also it is in Memoirs of Aga Khan,"....And I further pray that all who truly and sincerely believe in God, be be they christian, jew, buddhist or brahmin, who strive to good and avoid evil, who are gentle and kind will be joined in heaven and be granted final pardon and peace."
But what do you say about hadith also quoted by Pir Shabuddin that,"Any one who dies without having known the Imam of his time dies as an unbeliever or idolater" and also about Ginan of Pir Sadardin rovey rovey hindura...in which it is said like all who not accept Imam will cry...
Also it is in Memoirs of Aga Khan,"....And I further pray that all who truly and sincerely believe in God, be be they christian, jew, buddhist or brahmin, who strive to good and avoid evil, who are gentle and kind will be joined in heaven and be granted final pardon and peace."
But what do you say about hadith also quoted by Pir Shabuddin that,"Any one who dies without having known the Imam of his time dies as an unbeliever or idolater" and also about Ginan of Pir Sadardin rovey rovey hindura...in which it is said like all who not accept Imam will cry...
First of all I do not believe that it is desirable for everyone to recognise the Imam. There is strength in pluralism, differences are beneficial. Therefore I do not believe that those who do not recognise the Imam will be condemned to hell. They will be made to recognise the Imam if not during this life, than in the purifying hellfire in the hereafter. Refer to the Baavan Bodh and Vis TOL ginans.star_munir wrote: But what do you say about hadith also quoted by Pir Shabuddin that,"Any one who dies without having known the Imam of his time dies as an unbeliever or idolater" and also about Ginan of Pir Sadardin rovey rovey hindura...in which it is said like all who not accept Imam will cry...
Also we must be aware that knowing the Imam is not at the superficial level of the shariati. It is the recognition at the marifati level that gives freedom. I believe that mystics of all traditions would recognise the Imam at the marifati level eventually.
In my opinion the intent behind the hadith and the Ginan verse you quoted was to make us aware of what we have and to value it. If you are born in this exalted faith, than it is important that you obey him and not waste this opportunity.
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star_munir
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Why the human soul has to suffer after death
YAM to All,
kmaherali wrote:
"First of all I do not believe that it is desirable for everyone to recognise the Imam."
According to Imam's farman, it clearly says; without recognizing Ali your ibadat will not prosper. The human being is created to recognize Ali. This is according to Sultan Mohammad Shah's farman KIM.
On the day of judgement everyone will be standing under the flag of their Imam of their time.
May Mowla bless you all.
kmaherali wrote:
"First of all I do not believe that it is desirable for everyone to recognise the Imam."
According to Imam's farman, it clearly says; without recognizing Ali your ibadat will not prosper. The human being is created to recognize Ali. This is according to Sultan Mohammad Shah's farman KIM.
On the day of judgement everyone will be standing under the flag of their Imam of their time.
May Mowla bless you all.
Re: Why the human soul has to suffer after death
Karim,karimqazi wrote:YAM to All,
kmaherali wrote:
"First of all I do not believe that it is desirable for everyone to recognise the Imam."
According to Imam's farman, it clearly says; without recognizing Ali your ibadat will not prosper. The human being is created to recognize Ali. This is according to Sultan Mohammad Shah's farman KIM.
On the day of judgement everyone will be standing under the flag of their Imam of their time.
May Mowla bless you all.
One most realize the context of Kmaherali's arguement ...which stems from the fact that Kmaherali doesn't accept physical reincarnation....for him there is only this physical birth.
am i correct Kmaherali?
Shams
Re: Why the human soul has to suffer after death
YAM,ShamsB wrote: Karim,
One most realize the context of Kmaherali's arguement ...which stems from the fact that Kmaherali doesn't accept physical reincarnation....for him there is only this physical birth.
am i correct Kmaherali?
Shams
No, it is to do with the fact that I do not believe that salvation is only meant for Ismailis. No doubt our path is easy, prosperous and efficient if we are Farmanbardari. But others can also achieve salvation if they strive for it.
In one of the anecdotes that I posted for the Deedar preparations, there is mention of a non Ismaili getting the recognition of the Imam in a manner that convinced him about the truth that very few Ismailis have had. He even had the courage to publish a book about MHI. This man had never recognized HazarImam before, but what he had in him was the quest for the truth. He searched and read extensively and was rewarded for his efforts. So what matters is the intensity of the search and the desire for truth. If we do not have these, then being physically in the presence of the Imam will have no effect.
As Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah remarked, the sect that will achieve salvation will be comprised of all pious people of all sects.
Today we are exposed to a variety of enlightened literature, works of art and wisdom which have come from people who have apparently not recognized the Imam. Are we going to discard them just because they are not enlightened as per our definition?