Accomodations / Transportation
http://www.visit2005.ca
Online registration for Canadian Ismailis
http://www.iicanada.org/register2005
It has been confirmed that on Sunday June 5th there is a dinner and dandia program at the international center near the Toronto Airport. There is also a plan to host JK ceremonies there as well.
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REGISTRATION - Non-Canadian
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Q. I'm arriving last day, how to I register and get my pass?
Get yourself registered, either through family/friend in Canada or online. Then you can pick up the pass after June 3rd at JK you're registered.
Q. I do not have a family or friend in Canada. How do I get one?
Visitors can register themselves online.
Q. I'm registered, how do I pick up the pass if I'm arriving just hours before the deedar?
You'll be able to pickup your pass before deedar. More info soon
Q. I live in Toronto and I cannot attend the deedar because i'm out of town. I am able to make if for Vancouver deedar. How do I register for different city?
You need to find a family or friend in Vancouver that can register you. More info soon.
Q. I do not have a US passport, what else can I register with?
You need to provide your Green Card number with valid photo ID. If you do not have a Green Card, then you need to provide Citizenship Certificate with valid photo ID.
Q: What are the dates of the didar?
A: June 8th in Toronto
Q: How many didars will take place in a given day?
A: 2 in Toronto (AM & PM)
Q: What is the venue for the didar in Toronto?
A: CNE, located in downtown Toronto
Q: How far is CNE from the Toronto Airport
A: Aprox 20 minutes drive time
Q: I have or know someone that has a special needs child. How do I handle this
A: There is a special form that needs to be filled out in person so arrangements can be made to assist you with this.
Q: How can I register for the Toronto Didar if I live in the states?
A: You will need to provide your full name, address, phone #, passport #, & DOB to your friends or relatives in canada. (Registration is taking place this week)
Q: Who determines if I am able to attend the AM session or PM session for the didar?
A: Registration forms that are processed based on the JK location, determines who is signed up for which time slot. [non-residents which will be given the PM slot)
Canada Visit June 2005
Unofficial Deedar Info (Vancouver, BC)
There will be two sittings for the deedar 10am and 5pm (time
subject to change)
Doors for first sitting will open at 5:30am
Snacks will be served between 7am - 8am
Clean up 8am - 9am.
Waiting 9am - 10am (Ginan recital, Waez etc)
Deedar 10am - 11:15am.
After His Highness has left the premises, the Jamat will be
shuttled to PNE where lunch will be provided and Dandia Raas
program to follow.
11:30 - 12:30 cleaning of hall.
12:30 Doors open for second sitting. Similar schedule as first
sitting will follow.
The street around Pan Pacific (PP) will be blocked off so there will not be
any drop offs. Wheel chair assistance will be provided. There will be
plenty of parking available at PNE.
There will be two sittings for the deedar 10am and 5pm (time
subject to change)
Doors for first sitting will open at 5:30am
Snacks will be served between 7am - 8am
Clean up 8am - 9am.
Waiting 9am - 10am (Ginan recital, Waez etc)
Deedar 10am - 11:15am.
After His Highness has left the premises, the Jamat will be
shuttled to PNE where lunch will be provided and Dandia Raas
program to follow.
11:30 - 12:30 cleaning of hall.
12:30 Doors open for second sitting. Similar schedule as first
sitting will follow.
The street around Pan Pacific (PP) will be blocked off so there will not be
any drop offs. Wheel chair assistance will be provided. There will be
plenty of parking available at PNE.
Toronto Padhramni Information Update;
All Badged & Non-Badged Volunteers (across Greater Toronto Area)
are to be informed that there will be a General Meeting Tonight (after JK ceremonies );
Thursday June 2nd, 2005 at 2 large JK centres.
Willowdale JK; for North-East, East and South-East Sectored JKs
Etobicoke JK ; for North-West, West and any South-East Sectored JKs
All Badged & Non-Badged Volunteers (across Greater Toronto Area)
are to be informed that there will be a General Meeting Tonight (after JK ceremonies );
Thursday June 2nd, 2005 at 2 large JK centres.
Willowdale JK; for North-East, East and South-East Sectored JKs
Etobicoke JK ; for North-West, West and any South-East Sectored JKs
2005, June 6 Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson, Governor General of Canada, will present the insignia of Companion of the Order of Canada to His Highness the Aga Khan during a private ceremony at Rideau Hall, on Monday, June 6, 2005, at 6:00 p.m. The ceremony is not open to the public.
Governor General to invest His Highness the Aga Khan as Honorary Companion of the Order of Canada
To view news release, please click on the link below:
http://www.gg.ca/media/doc.asp?lang=e&DocID=4458
La Gouverneure générale investira Son altesse l'Aga Khan en tant que Compagnon honoraire de l'Ordre du Canada
Veuillez cliquer sur le lien ci-dessous pour accéder au communiqué :
http://www.gg.ca/media/doc.asp?lang=f&DocID=4458
Governor General to invest His Highness the Aga Khan as Honorary Companion of the Order of Canada
To view news release, please click on the link below:
http://www.gg.ca/media/doc.asp?lang=e&DocID=4458
La Gouverneure générale investira Son altesse l'Aga Khan en tant que Compagnon honoraire de l'Ordre du Canada
Veuillez cliquer sur le lien ci-dessous pour accéder au communiqué :
http://www.gg.ca/media/doc.asp?lang=f&DocID=4458
Padhramni Hall - Vancouver
Look at the video for a 360° view of the Exhibition Hall.
http://www.vanconex.com/facility/floorp ... hibit.html
All 3 halls will be used --- Total Capacity 20,188
Look at the video for a 360° view of the Exhibition Hall.
http://www.vanconex.com/facility/floorp ... hibit.html
All 3 halls will be used --- Total Capacity 20,188
VANCOUVER, BC - AM/PM SESSION
Find out if your scheduled for the AM session or PM session based on the JK that you registered at:
Morning seating is for Darkhana and Burnaby Lake JKs with half of Calgary and Edmonton. Afternoon seating will be for Lions Gate and Richmond JKs again with the other half of Calgary and Edmonton jamats. There has been no news on the max number allowed for the Deedar. There will be 2 separate celebrations on Deedar day. The morning people will celebrate at PNE and the afternoon will be at the Convention Centre.
Morning Session:
Burnaby Lake
Darkhana
Downtown
Edmonton Belllerive (North)
Edmonton West
SFU
UBC
UNBC
UVIC
Calgary Headquarters
Calgary Airways
Regina
Saskatoon
Medicine Hat
Winnipeg
Lethbridge
Afternoon Session:
Abbotsford
Chilliwack
Fraser Valley
Headquarters Lion's Gate
Kamloops
Nanaimo
Richmond
Tri-City
Victoria
Fort MacMurray
Calgary NorthWest
Calgary South
Calgary Franklin
Edmonton Headquarters
Red Deer
Kelowna
Find out if your scheduled for the AM session or PM session based on the JK that you registered at:
Morning seating is for Darkhana and Burnaby Lake JKs with half of Calgary and Edmonton. Afternoon seating will be for Lions Gate and Richmond JKs again with the other half of Calgary and Edmonton jamats. There has been no news on the max number allowed for the Deedar. There will be 2 separate celebrations on Deedar day. The morning people will celebrate at PNE and the afternoon will be at the Convention Centre.
Morning Session:
Burnaby Lake
Darkhana
Downtown
Edmonton Belllerive (North)
Edmonton West
SFU
UBC
UNBC
UVIC
Calgary Headquarters
Calgary Airways
Regina
Saskatoon
Medicine Hat
Winnipeg
Lethbridge
Afternoon Session:
Abbotsford
Chilliwack
Fraser Valley
Headquarters Lion's Gate
Kamloops
Nanaimo
Richmond
Tri-City
Victoria
Fort MacMurray
Calgary NorthWest
Calgary South
Calgary Franklin
Edmonton Headquarters
Red Deer
Kelowna
TORONTO, ON
Major Entertainment Program planned for Saturday Night at the International Center. Well known signers are suppose to be there
Dandia will begin tomorrow night at the International Center and will continue for the next 7 Days at the same venue.
Breakfast/Lunch arrangements are set for all visitors from this Saturday 6/3 thru Friday at the International Center
Outside visitors can begin picking up the passes starting tomorrow 6/3 at the International Center at 4 PM. Proper ID will be required in order to pick them up.
On the day of the Deedar, you will need to bring with you not only your Deedar pass but also proper ID as you may be asked to verify that your ID matches up correctly.
No cell phones, cameras, or recording devices are allowed at the Intezaar Hall on Deedar day.
There are a lot of security measures that are in place for everyone's safety. Everyone is requested to provide full cooperation to all volunteers. They have been working day and night to make sure that everyone is safe and properly accommodated.
For senior citizens requiring chairs for the Deedar hall, please register in person and make the request thru someone at the "Visit 2005" booth at the local JK.
Major Entertainment Program planned for Saturday Night at the International Center. Well known signers are suppose to be there
Dandia will begin tomorrow night at the International Center and will continue for the next 7 Days at the same venue.
Breakfast/Lunch arrangements are set for all visitors from this Saturday 6/3 thru Friday at the International Center
Outside visitors can begin picking up the passes starting tomorrow 6/3 at the International Center at 4 PM. Proper ID will be required in order to pick them up.
On the day of the Deedar, you will need to bring with you not only your Deedar pass but also proper ID as you may be asked to verify that your ID matches up correctly.
No cell phones, cameras, or recording devices are allowed at the Intezaar Hall on Deedar day.
There are a lot of security measures that are in place for everyone's safety. Everyone is requested to provide full cooperation to all volunteers. They have been working day and night to make sure that everyone is safe and properly accommodated.
For senior citizens requiring chairs for the Deedar hall, please register in person and make the request thru someone at the "Visit 2005" booth at the local JK.
Padhramni
Padhramni
Padhramni, padhramni, padhramni
Jovo aavi Shah Karim nee padhramni
Etc..
DELETED BY ADMIN
PLEASE POST IN GENERAL TEXT AND POEMS ON DIDAR!
This section is only for practical ingfo on Didar in this visit. NO general text or poems!!!!!1
Admin
Padhramni, padhramni, padhramni
Jovo aavi Shah Karim nee padhramni
Etc..
DELETED BY ADMIN
PLEASE POST IN GENERAL TEXT AND POEMS ON DIDAR!
This section is only for practical ingfo on Didar in this visit. NO general text or poems!!!!!1
Admin
Last edited by alisa on Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As we know there will be 2 seating for Deedar and there are some estimates out there of total of 30,000 people attending the Vancouver event. All 3 halls combined the capacity according to the web site is 9,908 therefore, X2 would be 19,816. I don't get it: Are the estimates over stated as things are in always overstated or there are intentions of bending or breaking rules and codes. I don't know, may be someone can shed a light on this please and don't PM me the answer please just post it here for all to understand this.Admin wrote:Padhramni Hall - Vancouver
Look at the video for a 360° view of the Exhibition Hall.
http://www.vanconex.com/facility/floorp ... hibit.html
All 3 halls will be used --- Total Capacity 20,188
I don't get it! Not this or some small-town in Iowa spending millions on "security measures". I just want to know, has there been any credible threats? Or it is just a bandwagon of 911. That everyone uses "security measures" it is just as miss used as "there is no I in a Team". Just get real or to the truth please.Admin wrote: There are a lot of security measures that are in place for everyone's safety. Everyone is requested to provide full cooperation to all volunteers. They have been working day and night to make sure that everyone is safe and properly accommodated.
There musn't be any Ismailies in Quebec City (not listed). I thought Don Mills was in the morning.
In any case, can I take it for granted that Parking will be made available for PM visit even if I were to come minutes before the doors close for the deedar? I'm just preparing for the any unexpected events that I should be delayed eg. traffic, etc..
Thanks.
In any case, can I take it for granted that Parking will be made available for PM visit even if I were to come minutes before the doors close for the deedar? I'm just preparing for the any unexpected events that I should be delayed eg. traffic, etc..
Thanks.
[quote="unnalhaq] I don't get it! Not this or some small-town in Iowa spending millions on "security measures". I just want to know, has there been any credible threats? [/quote]
Wait.. soon they will have security devices to erase the memory of each people who attended didar. Memory detector wil be placed at the exit of didar doors. Just to make sure no one remembers exactely what was in the Farmans.
That way, it is easier to manipulate the "official" Farman while if ever one person out of the 100,000 people who are going to attend, comes with an accurate audio, it becames very difficult to justify the zillions of editing and corrections... After all, he speaks Harvard English, not Cambridge English like the editors
Nagib
Wait.. soon they will have security devices to erase the memory of each people who attended didar. Memory detector wil be placed at the exit of didar doors. Just to make sure no one remembers exactely what was in the Farmans.
That way, it is easier to manipulate the "official" Farman while if ever one person out of the 100,000 people who are going to attend, comes with an accurate audio, it becames very difficult to justify the zillions of editing and corrections... After all, he speaks Harvard English, not Cambridge English like the editors
Nagib
canada june 2005 deedar
Dear Ismaili brothers and sisters,
Mubaraki on the deedar, i was immensely happy for both the Imam and the jamats of Canada and USA for the fortune, I recall the firman of Imam of the Time, he made in Mozambique where he intimates how he misses the jamats physically, i wish you all excellent deedar.We were blessed with deedar in March, and I was fortunate to be a delegate at the IPI Congress with the jamats prayers.We in East Africa have been very very fortunate during the last few years, make the most of it,I hope spiruitual preparations were also a part of the deedar programme put in place by the council, as I understand you are all having a ball.
Mubaraki on the deedar, i was immensely happy for both the Imam and the jamats of Canada and USA for the fortune, I recall the firman of Imam of the Time, he made in Mozambique where he intimates how he misses the jamats physically, i wish you all excellent deedar.We were blessed with deedar in March, and I was fortunate to be a delegate at the IPI Congress with the jamats prayers.We in East Africa have been very very fortunate during the last few years, make the most of it,I hope spiruitual preparations were also a part of the deedar programme put in place by the council, as I understand you are all having a ball.
Toronto Deedar
I was quite impressed and the excellent organization of the morning Deedar in Toronto. Everything proceeded like clockwork with no delays, hassles, etc. MHI walked by all the rows and made eye contact with many of us. His firman was excellent.
Alnoor
Alnoor
I apologize if this offends anyone, because that's not my intention, but I was very disappointed with this morning's deedar, and wanted to know if I happened to be the only one? The appearance was so short, the firman taught us nothing new (i.e. last time, he introduced the community to the concept of "meritocracy"; and its importance in our ongoing lives. This time, after 13 years, all I got was a reiteration of the importance of institutions and some discussion of the nebulous term called "values")
And what bothered me most was that there is now so much focus on the absolute worship of and submission to the Imam himself, rather than seeing him as a guide to Allah; Even in his Firman, the mention of thinking of your faith of prayer time o­nly mentioned calling the name of Muhammed, Ali, and the Imams, and made absolutely no mention of Allah himself.
Am I the only one that was bothered by that??
And what bothered me most was that there is now so much focus on the absolute worship of and submission to the Imam himself, rather than seeing him as a guide to Allah; Even in his Firman, the mention of thinking of your faith of prayer time o­nly mentioned calling the name of Muhammed, Ali, and the Imams, and made absolutely no mention of Allah himself.
Am I the only one that was bothered by that??
Disappointed Salym
Dear Salym, no need to apologise. I perfectly understand you. My advice to you is next time it would be wise to stay home and pray to Allah. Allah guides to His Light whoever He wishes. Think about it: HIS LIGHT (Noor). The light that disappointed you. Perhaps this is a message for you.
Peace be upon you.
Well, Salym, I apologize if this offends you, because that's not my intention.
But a deedar is not exactly a concert, and the one who gives a farman is not exactly a popular singer who would have to please his audience with a new tube every year, or every 13 years for instance.
One just does not attend such an event with a consumer spirit.
So, if "all you got" was a reiteration of the importance of institutions and some "discussion about the nebulous term called "values"", then it is indeed all you "got".
Because you get what you bring.
You're supposed to be a Muslim, aren't you?
So I guess you get the reminiscence of The Creator everyday of your life, at least thrice six times per day : "Bismi-llahi-r-Rahmani-r-Rahim, al-hamdu lillahi rabbi-l-'alamin, ar-rahman ar-rahim, maliki yawmi-d-din, iyyaka na'budu wa iyyaka nasta'in, ihdinas sirata-l-mustaqim, sirata-l-adhina an'amta alyhim, gayri-l-magdubi 'alayhim wa la-d-dallin".
Or am I the only one who recalls this?
Now, you're supposed to be an Isma'ili Muslim, aren't you?
Or else I guess you would not have attended the deedar.
And when the Imam of the time does ask you to recall the names of the Imams, the name of 'Ali, and the name of Muhammad, the Imam brings you to the Imams who preceded him, the Imams bring you to 'Ali, and 'Ali brings you to Muhammad.
And I ask you : who does Muhammad bring you to?
Is this not to The One Who created man from a clot, The One who taught him the use of the pen, The One who taught him what he knew not?
Or am I the only one who recalls this?
"And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided." (3:103)
Is this verse not on the emblem of one of the institutions founded by this Imam of ours?
Then I ask you, what bothers you?
And what, then, may be that rope?
Say, since you are an Isma'ili Muslim.
For if you start worshipping the Imam, then, surely, you are confused.
Maybe you should buy a ticket, and go to a show, enter a theater, and watch a movie.
There is a good one around there, where you live.
It is called "What the bleep do we know?"
Maybe, then, you would ask yourself: but what the #! is reality?
What is this obscure thing called din?
What is this obscure thing called dunya?
And what is this nebulous thing called al-haqq?
Yes, same ol' show, as 13 years ago.
And same ol' show, as 1400 years ago.
And same ol' show, as when Adam came to the world.
So, since you ask, what then may be these "nebulous" things called "values"?
Maybe, after all, is this "all what you got".
Maybe this deedar was nothing but an opportunity for you to reflect upon "values".
What indeed may be values?
Or am I the only one who is not bothered by that?
Peace be upon you.
[/i]
Well, Salym, I apologize if this offends you, because that's not my intention.
But a deedar is not exactly a concert, and the one who gives a farman is not exactly a popular singer who would have to please his audience with a new tube every year, or every 13 years for instance.
One just does not attend such an event with a consumer spirit.
So, if "all you got" was a reiteration of the importance of institutions and some "discussion about the nebulous term called "values"", then it is indeed all you "got".
Because you get what you bring.
You're supposed to be a Muslim, aren't you?
So I guess you get the reminiscence of The Creator everyday of your life, at least thrice six times per day : "Bismi-llahi-r-Rahmani-r-Rahim, al-hamdu lillahi rabbi-l-'alamin, ar-rahman ar-rahim, maliki yawmi-d-din, iyyaka na'budu wa iyyaka nasta'in, ihdinas sirata-l-mustaqim, sirata-l-adhina an'amta alyhim, gayri-l-magdubi 'alayhim wa la-d-dallin".
Or am I the only one who recalls this?
Now, you're supposed to be an Isma'ili Muslim, aren't you?
Or else I guess you would not have attended the deedar.
And when the Imam of the time does ask you to recall the names of the Imams, the name of 'Ali, and the name of Muhammad, the Imam brings you to the Imams who preceded him, the Imams bring you to 'Ali, and 'Ali brings you to Muhammad.
And I ask you : who does Muhammad bring you to?
Is this not to The One Who created man from a clot, The One who taught him the use of the pen, The One who taught him what he knew not?
Or am I the only one who recalls this?
"And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided." (3:103)
Is this verse not on the emblem of one of the institutions founded by this Imam of ours?
Then I ask you, what bothers you?
And what, then, may be that rope?
Say, since you are an Isma'ili Muslim.
For if you start worshipping the Imam, then, surely, you are confused.
Maybe you should buy a ticket, and go to a show, enter a theater, and watch a movie.
There is a good one around there, where you live.
It is called "What the bleep do we know?"
Maybe, then, you would ask yourself: but what the #! is reality?
What is this obscure thing called din?
What is this obscure thing called dunya?
And what is this nebulous thing called al-haqq?
Yes, same ol' show, as 13 years ago.
And same ol' show, as 1400 years ago.
And same ol' show, as when Adam came to the world.
So, since you ask, what then may be these "nebulous" things called "values"?
Maybe, after all, is this "all what you got".
Maybe this deedar was nothing but an opportunity for you to reflect upon "values".
What indeed may be values?
Or am I the only one who is not bothered by that?
Peace be upon you.
[/i]
-
QuestioningIsmaili
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:40 am
I'm with Salym on this one...
Xsi, thanks, but cutting and pasting Qur'anic excerpts isn't really addressing the issue of today.
To address your statement that said "For if you start
worshipping the Imam, then, surely, you are confused," I completely
agree! My discomfort today stemmed largely from "worship" of the Imam
that I believe I witnessed. As I looked around the room, I saw people
weeping and shaking at the sight of the Imam before them. Rather than
turning to him for actual spiritual guidance, many people seemed to be
basking in his physical manifestation alone. So much of the session
today entailed one person after another garlanding him with gifts and
then slowly backstepping away. Perhaps I'm a bad Ismaili, or even of
a new generation/mindset, but I believe that the Imam is here to
provide guidance in our search for Allah, and not for us to be
worshipping directly and showering with worldly possessions.
Moreover, his brief remarks today focused almost exclusively on wordly
guidance about building and enabling institutions to support one
another, or how to live with our 'values' in the western world - both
of which I agree with and feel are important, however I wish we had
spent more time learning and receiving guidance on how we can become
closer to Allah. However, after 13 years, I would much have prefered to receive more of his insights on Quranic interpretation from our Imam IN ADDITIION TO hearing to his advice on how we can improve our worldly standing and help our community prosper materially. Am I alone in this desire to balance the material with the spiritual in terms of the guidance we receive as well?
Xsi, thanks, but cutting and pasting Qur'anic excerpts isn't really addressing the issue of today.
To address your statement that said "For if you start
worshipping the Imam, then, surely, you are confused," I completely
agree! My discomfort today stemmed largely from "worship" of the Imam
that I believe I witnessed. As I looked around the room, I saw people
weeping and shaking at the sight of the Imam before them. Rather than
turning to him for actual spiritual guidance, many people seemed to be
basking in his physical manifestation alone. So much of the session
today entailed one person after another garlanding him with gifts and
then slowly backstepping away. Perhaps I'm a bad Ismaili, or even of
a new generation/mindset, but I believe that the Imam is here to
provide guidance in our search for Allah, and not for us to be
worshipping directly and showering with worldly possessions.
Moreover, his brief remarks today focused almost exclusively on wordly
guidance about building and enabling institutions to support one
another, or how to live with our 'values' in the western world - both
of which I agree with and feel are important, however I wish we had
spent more time learning and receiving guidance on how we can become
closer to Allah. However, after 13 years, I would much have prefered to receive more of his insights on Quranic interpretation from our Imam IN ADDITIION TO hearing to his advice on how we can improve our worldly standing and help our community prosper materially. Am I alone in this desire to balance the material with the spiritual in terms of the guidance we receive as well?
QuestioningIsmaili & Salym,
Ya Ali Madad and Deedar Mubarak to you. I am not sure of your age, your background, etc... but let me very honestly put it straight forward to you, that about two months ago, I was in the same boat as you. I'm 19 years old and had gone to the Dar-Es-Salaam, Nairobi, and Kampala deedars just in March of this year. I was asking similar questions to you... and this is simply because today when I look in khane, I ask my parents, no body gives you the correct answer... they ask you to "Shh..!" and follow... I was fed up and then I found this forum and asked my heart out... and today?... I have solidified all of my answers and don't even doubt Ismailism or the Imam one bit.
I would encourage both of you (unless you are the same person ... ) to join in on at the forum:
Doctrines --> Is Hazer Imam God?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... &start=345
Ask questions there, and you will get your answers. I guess you'll have to wait till after our Vancouver deedar is over till everyone can start posting and replying to you.
But I will leave you with one thing to think about... do a little digging and you will find that today Hazar Imam has the dual role of "Pir" and "Imam"... the role of the "Pir" is that to "guide" you to the "Imam"... and the Imam is who?.... well:
Who were Lord Ram and Lord Krishna to the Hindus during their time?
Just because we are only 25 million Muslims our of a total population of 1.2 billion does not mean the majority are right... Sure when you see the Imam as a guide, that is him as Pir... giving you the Firman, but Islam is not like how the Pope fulfills his papacy, where he has to give up his wordly life and base it strictly on a religious life and preach soley that... We are meant to live our "Duniya" with "Din"... But anyway, reflect... if you genuinly care for the correct info, you will find it... but if you are here to be a jerkoff and prove a point that you're not interested, then you might as well leave now.
Either way, the best of luck to you... and once again, deedar mubarak
S786
Ya Ali Madad and Deedar Mubarak to you. I am not sure of your age, your background, etc... but let me very honestly put it straight forward to you, that about two months ago, I was in the same boat as you. I'm 19 years old and had gone to the Dar-Es-Salaam, Nairobi, and Kampala deedars just in March of this year. I was asking similar questions to you... and this is simply because today when I look in khane, I ask my parents, no body gives you the correct answer... they ask you to "Shh..!" and follow... I was fed up and then I found this forum and asked my heart out... and today?... I have solidified all of my answers and don't even doubt Ismailism or the Imam one bit.
I would encourage both of you (unless you are the same person
... ) to join in on at the forum:Doctrines --> Is Hazer Imam God?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... &start=345
Ask questions there, and you will get your answers. I guess you'll have to wait till after our Vancouver deedar is over till everyone can start posting and replying to you.
But I will leave you with one thing to think about... do a little digging and you will find that today Hazar Imam has the dual role of "Pir" and "Imam"... the role of the "Pir" is that to "guide" you to the "Imam"... and the Imam is who?.... well:
Who were Lord Ram and Lord Krishna to the Hindus during their time?
Just because we are only 25 million Muslims our of a total population of 1.2 billion does not mean the majority are right... Sure when you see the Imam as a guide, that is him as Pir... giving you the Firman, but Islam is not like how the Pope fulfills his papacy, where he has to give up his wordly life and base it strictly on a religious life and preach soley that... We are meant to live our "Duniya" with "Din"... But anyway, reflect... if you genuinly care for the correct info, you will find it... but if you are here to be a jerkoff and prove a point that you're not interested, then you might as well leave now.
Either way, the best of luck to you... and once again, deedar mubarak
S786
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QuestioningIsmaili
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:40 am
S786,
Thank you for your story and your suggestion of which forums to check out. In fact, I'm not new at asking the questions that I'm asking - I've got a few years of experience on you, and have been talking to various people for many years about my thoughts... this deedar simply catalyzed my desire to gain "knowledge", as the Imam suggested. However, that being said, I wouldn't be so ignorant as to suggest that your young age would preclude you from providing valuable insight, so I appreciate your input, and I will certainly check out the forum(s) you suggest.
In the meantime, I don't think your references to the Imam/Pir dual role and the Imam vs. Ram/Krishna analogy do anything to answer the questions that I raised above. Nor do I suggest that because Ismailis are such a small minority, we are incorrect in our beliefs. Similarly, I also did not argue that the Imam should follow in the example of the Pope, giving up a worldly life to focus solely on the spiritual guidance of his people, although I do believe that there is a whole lot more "duniya" being talked about nowadays than "din", even by the Imam himself. Many would say "it's his perogative to lead us as he chooses", and I respect those that believe that. But I also respect a firman that Hazar Imam made many years ago that encouraged his followers, especially the younger generations, to use our intellect and to ask questions in the search of knowledge. While I do not question the Imam's focus on helping our brothers and sisters abroad build safe and peaceful lives, I do have some concerns that so little of what he talks about has to do with Allah, and how to practice our faith in accordance with His intentions.
By the way, I do wish to be completely civil in these discussions, but I will say this: nothing bugs me more than people like Mr/Ms. Al-Azhar above, who basically implied to Salym that if he wasn't satisfied with the deedar, then God likely didn't want him lead to His light. Get over yourself Al-Azhar!... This is not the time or forum for you to be placing yourself on a pedestal as a chosen person because you happen not to question what you experienced. However, if you or others have legitimate points to bring to bear on this discussion, I really welcome them and would love to hear them.
Thank you for your story and your suggestion of which forums to check out. In fact, I'm not new at asking the questions that I'm asking - I've got a few years of experience on you, and have been talking to various people for many years about my thoughts... this deedar simply catalyzed my desire to gain "knowledge", as the Imam suggested. However, that being said, I wouldn't be so ignorant as to suggest that your young age would preclude you from providing valuable insight, so I appreciate your input, and I will certainly check out the forum(s) you suggest.
In the meantime, I don't think your references to the Imam/Pir dual role and the Imam vs. Ram/Krishna analogy do anything to answer the questions that I raised above. Nor do I suggest that because Ismailis are such a small minority, we are incorrect in our beliefs. Similarly, I also did not argue that the Imam should follow in the example of the Pope, giving up a worldly life to focus solely on the spiritual guidance of his people, although I do believe that there is a whole lot more "duniya" being talked about nowadays than "din", even by the Imam himself. Many would say "it's his perogative to lead us as he chooses", and I respect those that believe that. But I also respect a firman that Hazar Imam made many years ago that encouraged his followers, especially the younger generations, to use our intellect and to ask questions in the search of knowledge. While I do not question the Imam's focus on helping our brothers and sisters abroad build safe and peaceful lives, I do have some concerns that so little of what he talks about has to do with Allah, and how to practice our faith in accordance with His intentions.
By the way, I do wish to be completely civil in these discussions, but I will say this: nothing bugs me more than people like Mr/Ms. Al-Azhar above, who basically implied to Salym that if he wasn't satisfied with the deedar, then God likely didn't want him lead to His light. Get over yourself Al-Azhar!... This is not the time or forum for you to be placing yourself on a pedestal as a chosen person because you happen not to question what you experienced. However, if you or others have legitimate points to bring to bear on this discussion, I really welcome them and would love to hear them.
May be the duniya is going astray and needs more attention then before in order to balance the life with din?? Just a comment.although I do believe that there is a whole lot more "duniya" being talked about nowadays than "din"
And to comment in general, especially to those who missed anything relating to Allah. All I can say is that He is zahir and batin at the same time, just like how Qur'an refers to the pairs Allah has created in everything. So at the end of the day, you go to a physical deedar or a concert show, it doesn't really matter, because all you get back is what you perceive in the first place.
And you see, I feel sad for those who cringe and feel depressed by all these celebrations, dandiya, music etc because it is after all a celebration to enjoy, the worldly enjoyment your soul needs knowing the Imam is coming to you so you can see him physically with your naked eyes (not via internet, not via video or pictures but via your own physical living breathing eyes). So why not celebrate? Why not rejoice? I mean, He's giving you an opportunity to see Him instead of you struggling to see Him.
But then, some of us really don't see Him, we don't see Him even when we're looking at Him with our physical naked eyes, but as I said already, this is all okay. You not seeing Him is fine with Him too, because if you are living and breathing with happiness then that's all it matters to Him.
He gave you soul with heart and mind, so you use 'em to achieve happiness here and in hereafter.
But then, some of us really don't see Him, we don't see Him even when we're looking at Him with our physical naked eyes, but as I said already, this is all okay. You not seeing Him is fine with Him too, because if you are living and breathing with happiness then that's all it matters to Him.
He gave you soul with heart and mind, so you use 'em to achieve happiness here and in hereafter.
Salym, you have a very interesting post here. I am actually delighted to meet an Ismaili like you. Yours is a quintessential view of any typical Ismaili who are in the faith--and I'm sorry to say--but living without "knowledge". So below, allow me to write my own comments in general, they are not particularly addressed to you directly.
I know, I don't need to give you any advice or any sarcastic lecture but the problem I see with your post is that you are missing knowledge. You want knowledge to come to you rather than you getting to the knowledge. You see, Imam and Prophets have been saying for years "seek knowledge". May be you just need a flash or a zap of lightening in your mind to understand this basic concept.
I mean why were you expecting something "new"? Were you looking for a miracle, because Qur'ran is the only miracle in Islam. Why were you looking for spiritual guidance just only on that particular moment or day? Spiritual guidance is all available prior to Imam visiting Canada in 2005, right?. I don't have to tell you this but you already know the zahir and batin meaning of the word knowledge.
And you were troubled by not seeing him as guide to Allah? He is guide to Allah but you see, he cannot be a guide to Allah without you, and you admitted that you were worried, so you missed that opportunity.
He didn't mentioned Allah? Knowledge my friend, knowledge. Seek it and you will get the answers to "everything" (emphasis added on purpose).
I know, I don't need to give you any advice or any sarcastic lecture but the problem I see with your post is that you are missing knowledge. You want knowledge to come to you rather than you getting to the knowledge. You see, Imam and Prophets have been saying for years "seek knowledge". May be you just need a flash or a zap of lightening in your mind to understand this basic concept.
I mean why were you expecting something "new"? Were you looking for a miracle, because Qur'ran is the only miracle in Islam. Why were you looking for spiritual guidance just only on that particular moment or day? Spiritual guidance is all available prior to Imam visiting Canada in 2005, right?. I don't have to tell you this but you already know the zahir and batin meaning of the word knowledge.
And you were troubled by not seeing him as guide to Allah? He is guide to Allah but you see, he cannot be a guide to Allah without you, and you admitted that you were worried, so you missed that opportunity.
He didn't mentioned Allah? Knowledge my friend, knowledge. Seek it and you will get the answers to "everything" (emphasis added on purpose).
salym wrote:I apologize if this offends anyone, because that's not my intention, but I was very disappointed with this morning's deedar, and wanted to know if I happened to be the only one? The appearance was so short, the firman taught us nothing new (i.e. last time, he introduced the community to the concept of "meritocracy"; and its importance in our ongoing lives. This time, after 13 years, all I got was a reiteration of the importance of institutions and some discussion of the nebulous term called "values")
And what bothered me most was that there is now so much focus on the absolute worship of and submission to the Imam himself, rather than seeing him as a guide to Allah; Even in his Firman, the mention of thinking of your faith of prayer time o­nly mentioned calling the name of Muhammed, Ali, and the Imams, and made absolutely no mention of Allah himself.
Am I the only one that was bothered by that??
And before my friend Alik comes here and complain about these people registering on June 8 and posting on June 8 (of course without going through previous emails posted by others on this forum and wrongly criticizing al-azhar because he's been here for long 
). I just wish to say this to all, that do expect a large crowd gathering with all sorts of questions. So brace yourself for a busy rush hour once people go back to their homes after visiting the Niagra falls.
I know KMeherally and ShamsB will be really fresh to take on the new day with ease. 
And I have no idea how Admins are going to deal with this flow which will be coming through without any metal detectors at the gates. 
). I just wish to say this to all, that do expect a large crowd gathering with all sorts of questions. So brace yourself for a busy rush hour once people go back to their homes after visiting the Niagra falls. I know KMeherally and ShamsB will be really fresh to take on the new day with ease. And I have no idea how Admins are going to deal with this flow which will be coming through without any metal detectors at the gates. -
QuestioningIsmaili
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:40 am
I'm sorry curious 2... that was the most ridiculous post I've ever read. How can you seriously sit there and say "seek knowledge" and then the most insightful thing you have to say in your entire commentary is "May be you just need a flash or a zap of lightening in your mind to understand this basic concept."
Perhaps, my friend, it's not so basic. Perhaps someone has thought to ask a question about something you accept as a given... And perhaps, that is what Hazar Imam refers to when he says that this is a faith of intellect. Intellect entails asking tough questions, having engaged discussions, and coming to joint or seperate realizations of what the 'truth' is, not just simply blindly accepting something as is, and putting down those that don't agree as lacking knowledge or unenlightened. (or in the case of Al-Azhar's comments, un-chosen by Allah).
I'm sorry that I expected more from this post than a condescending, closed-minded discussion. I think I'll go find some more open, informed, and enlightening people to learn from.
Perhaps, my friend, it's not so basic. Perhaps someone has thought to ask a question about something you accept as a given... And perhaps, that is what Hazar Imam refers to when he says that this is a faith of intellect. Intellect entails asking tough questions, having engaged discussions, and coming to joint or seperate realizations of what the 'truth' is, not just simply blindly accepting something as is, and putting down those that don't agree as lacking knowledge or unenlightened. (or in the case of Al-Azhar's comments, un-chosen by Allah).
I'm sorry that I expected more from this post than a condescending, closed-minded discussion. I think I'll go find some more open, informed, and enlightening people to learn from.
Well you don't have to entice me, nor do you have to go somehwere, and I don't mind you calling my post ridiculous, that's okay, it happens, you hardly know me and I hardly know you, all normal in the course of life.
Getting back to the substance. I didn't mind any questions here, questions can lead to the answers and you're right "to the truth". Okay I give you, my lightning comment was rather dull but hey sometime they work .
BTW, can truth be a joint realization?? How could that be joint? I don't see it that way. I'm sure by truth you mean belief/conviction? And not some hard facts proofs kind of like what Arabs demanded from the Prohphet (a miracle? or may be their curiousity to "see" Allah, as they used to see in their diety?). And if you still didn't notice, I meant knowledge as conviction/belief something you seek and won't get by even spending thousands of hours with the most learned human being on the earth.
So we can fire questions and answers to each other, in fact this is what we're here for. But don't tell me you'd go somewhere, that somewhere is as same as this place. The truth you or anyone seeks comes from within and not outside. Rest is all semantics.
BTW, the thousands of posts on this board are all close minded? I'll let you answer.
Getting back to the substance. I didn't mind any questions here, questions can lead to the answers and you're right "to the truth". Okay I give you, my lightning comment was rather dull but hey sometime they work .
BTW, can truth be a joint realization?? How could that be joint? I don't see it that way. I'm sure by truth you mean belief/conviction? And not some hard facts proofs kind of like what Arabs demanded from the Prohphet (a miracle? or may be their curiousity to "see" Allah, as they used to see in their diety?). And if you still didn't notice, I meant knowledge as conviction/belief something you seek and won't get by even spending thousands of hours with the most learned human being on the earth.
So we can fire questions and answers to each other, in fact this is what we're here for. But don't tell me you'd go somewhere, that somewhere is as same as this place. The truth you or anyone seeks comes from within and not outside. Rest is all semantics.
BTW, the thousands of posts on this board are all close minded? I'll let you answer.
QuestioningIsmaili wrote:I'm sorry curious 2... that was the most ridiculous post I've ever read. How can you seriously sit there and say "seek knowledge" and then the most insightful thing you have to say in your entire commentary is "May be you just need a flash or a zap of lightening in your mind to understand this basic concept."
Perhaps, my friend, it's not so basic. Perhaps someone has thought to ask a question about something you accept as a given... And perhaps, that is what Hazar Imam refers to when he says that this is a faith of intellect. Intellect entails asking tough questions, having engaged discussions, and coming to joint or seperate realizations of what the 'truth' is, not just simply blindly accepting something as is, and putting down those that don't agree as lacking knowledge or unenlightened. (or in the case of Al-Azhar's comments, un-chosen by Allah).
I'm sorry that I expected more from this post than a condescending, closed-minded discussion. I think I'll go find some more open, informed, and enlightening people to learn from.
Hazar Imam's Firman
Maybe you should send MHI a letter instructing Him what to talk about in his next FirmanQuestioningIsmaili wrote:I'm with Salym on this one...
Xsi, thanks, but cutting and pasting Qur'anic excerpts isn't really addressing the issue of today.
To address your statement that said "For if you start
worshipping the Imam, then, surely, you are confused," I completely
agree! My discomfort today stemmed largely from "worship" of the Imam
that I believe I witnessed. As I looked around the room, I saw people
weeping and shaking at the sight of the Imam before them. Rather than
turning to him for actual spiritual guidance, many people seemed to be
basking in his physical manifestation alone. So much of the session
today entailed one person after another garlanding him with gifts and
then slowly backstepping away. Perhaps I'm a bad Ismaili, or even of
a new generation/mindset, but I believe that the Imam is here to
provide guidance in our search for Allah, and not for us to be
worshipping directly and showering with worldly possessions.
Moreover, his brief remarks today focused almost exclusively on wordly
guidance about building and enabling institutions to support one
another, or how to live with our 'values' in the western world - both
of which I agree with and feel are important, however I wish we had
spent more time learning and receiving guidance on how we can become
closer to Allah. However, after 13 years, I would much have prefered to receive more of his insights on Quranic interpretation from our Imam IN ADDITIION TO hearing to his advice on how we can improve our worldly standing and help our community prosper materially. Am I alone in this desire to balance the material with the spiritual in terms of the guidance we receive as well?
There is an article in Today's Toronto Star stating that the Aga Khan spoke to 70,000 of his devotees at the CNE. An interview by the Star of one Ismaili youth who attended yielded the following; "The talk was all about knowledge and how to seek knowledge, and it was very important to be here." Another Ismaili from Georgia said; "He is like the Pope would be to Catholics". No indication that MHI is considered a God by his devotees. If Curios2 gets his way, maybe a future newspaper article will state; "Aga Khan advises his devotees on how to get closer to Allah"