I was reading somewhere on the internet in an interesting Q & N session. I came across a part where someone mentioned that Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) said that there will be 71 sects of Judaism, 72 of Christianity & 73 of Islam and only one from each will be the true sect.
A couple of questions:
1. Is this true? was this said? Do we have this in a record of Hadiths?
2. Putting Islam aside, in your opinions which sects of Christianity and which sects of Judaism do you feel/believe are "true"
S786
Muhammed's predicted sects of Islam/Judaism/Christianity
I think the basic tension between those who hold fundamentalist beliefs on the one hand and those who advocate progess is an aspect of all faiths. The number of sects is not important. What is important is the nature of the differences. In Christianity, there is an esoteric sect very akin to our tradition called the Christian Gnostics who believe in liberation through self knowledge and shift of consciousness. It is gaining ground especially after the discovery of the Gnostic Gospels at Nag Hammadi. Perhaps this sect will lead towards a better understanding of Christianity just like Ismailism. I am hoping that all faiths will find unity in the essential mystical dimension and come to a common understanding of the problems that we all face.
The following is a question/answer which reflects this apparent chaos within Christianity. The state is equated to a phase of adolescence or a growing phase. There is hope that true message of Christ will emerge out of this mess and the church will grow into adulthood.
Rev. Dore via the Internet writes:
"I am a New Thought Minister who presents the Bible and the Christ in much the same manner as you do in your articles and books. Can the Christ and Christianity survive the adolescence period where all is in flux, change and turmoil and emerge as the loving empowering way of life that Jesus intended and that we so desperately need or will the Fundamentalists win the day? Will we make it to Spiritual Adulthood?"
Dear Rev. Dore,
I think your image of adolescence is exactly correct. However, I suspect that the fact that Christians are not eager to grow up comes from two realities, one is external pressure, and the other is internal pressure. The Church as an external institution clearly craves power and achieves it by keeping its followers in perpetual immaturity. Childlike, uncritical dependency that expresses itself in guilt-laden obedience is the Church's unstated goal. The message of the Christ who, according to the Gospel of John, came that we might have abundant life, is portrayed theologically in our churches as coming to rescue 'wretched sinners' who are taught that there is no possibility of doing anything right without God. In order to reveal the greatness of God in this gift of salvation, the Church found it necessary to concentrate on the depravity of human life. Therefore, salvation came to those who accepted the forced status of being passive, dependent and childlike.
The internal pressure comes from our own evolutionary struggle. We are self-conscious creatures who live in the dimension of time. We remember yesterday and anticipate tomorrow. That means two things. First, fear and anxiety are essential, necessary and chronic in human life; second, we must embrace our own mortality. Both of these realities mean that it is the uniquely human thing to search for security. A parent God with supernatural power, who can watch over, protect and defend us, provides that kind of security. So we accept chronic childhood so as not to lose parental security. We prefer to be born again to growing up. It is a bad swap - perhaps even a delusional swap. The religious system that will survive must encourage self-development and maturity. That means God must be redefined in a non-theistic understanding as enabling, enhancing and encouraging a new humanity. Paul Tillich, a 20th century German Lutheran theologian, started us in this direction. The split in most Christian churches today reveals our adolescent spirituality. Some of us become fundamentalists who live in the past and others who cannot be bound by yesterday live in the future. Both are simply aspects of our journey out of adolescence into the maturity of wholeness. It will probably take a generation or two to move fully into the new consciousness, but I think it is inevitable. Blessings on your ministry.
The following is a question/answer which reflects this apparent chaos within Christianity. The state is equated to a phase of adolescence or a growing phase. There is hope that true message of Christ will emerge out of this mess and the church will grow into adulthood.
Rev. Dore via the Internet writes:
"I am a New Thought Minister who presents the Bible and the Christ in much the same manner as you do in your articles and books. Can the Christ and Christianity survive the adolescence period where all is in flux, change and turmoil and emerge as the loving empowering way of life that Jesus intended and that we so desperately need or will the Fundamentalists win the day? Will we make it to Spiritual Adulthood?"
Dear Rev. Dore,
I think your image of adolescence is exactly correct. However, I suspect that the fact that Christians are not eager to grow up comes from two realities, one is external pressure, and the other is internal pressure. The Church as an external institution clearly craves power and achieves it by keeping its followers in perpetual immaturity. Childlike, uncritical dependency that expresses itself in guilt-laden obedience is the Church's unstated goal. The message of the Christ who, according to the Gospel of John, came that we might have abundant life, is portrayed theologically in our churches as coming to rescue 'wretched sinners' who are taught that there is no possibility of doing anything right without God. In order to reveal the greatness of God in this gift of salvation, the Church found it necessary to concentrate on the depravity of human life. Therefore, salvation came to those who accepted the forced status of being passive, dependent and childlike.
The internal pressure comes from our own evolutionary struggle. We are self-conscious creatures who live in the dimension of time. We remember yesterday and anticipate tomorrow. That means two things. First, fear and anxiety are essential, necessary and chronic in human life; second, we must embrace our own mortality. Both of these realities mean that it is the uniquely human thing to search for security. A parent God with supernatural power, who can watch over, protect and defend us, provides that kind of security. So we accept chronic childhood so as not to lose parental security. We prefer to be born again to growing up. It is a bad swap - perhaps even a delusional swap. The religious system that will survive must encourage self-development and maturity. That means God must be redefined in a non-theistic understanding as enabling, enhancing and encouraging a new humanity. Paul Tillich, a 20th century German Lutheran theologian, started us in this direction. The split in most Christian churches today reveals our adolescent spirituality. Some of us become fundamentalists who live in the past and others who cannot be bound by yesterday live in the future. Both are simply aspects of our journey out of adolescence into the maturity of wholeness. It will probably take a generation or two to move fully into the new consciousness, but I think it is inevitable. Blessings on your ministry.
One thing we know is that contrary to a lots of hadith this one about 72 sects has been confirmed by Hazar Imam in a farman made in Garden JK in Karachi in 2000. It has also been confirmed by MOwlana Aga Ali Shah who even gave the missing perts of that hadith... I think this has already been mentioned in some other parts of this forum.
Nagib
Nagib
--------------- ----------------------- -------------------s786 wrote:Nagib, if you could link to that Hadith, it would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
S786
“ A person once asked Hazarat Muhammad,' O Rasulullah, who will go to heaven?' Rasulullah replied,' 73rd sect, as 72 sects will go astray.' The person further requested,' What will be the sign of that sect?' Rasulullah replied,' They will not involve themselves into the matters of Namaz, Roza and other Shariati matters, but they will be strong in their Love of Ya-Ali and Ahlebait.' (part of the Farman of Imam Aga Ali Shah Bombay A.D. 1884:)
Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah was asked the same question in a non jamati context, to which he replied that the sect that would go to heaven is a sect comprising of all pious individuals from all sects of Islam. Therefore all sects have the potential for salvation.kasamali wrote:“ A person once asked Hazarat Muhammad,' O Rasulullah, who will go to heaven?' Rasulullah replied,' 73rd sect, as 72 sects will go astray.' The person further requested,' What will be the sign of that sect?' Rasulullah replied,' They will not involve themselves into the matters of Namaz, Roza and other Shariati matters, but they will be strong in their Love of Ya-Ali and Ahlebait.' (part of the Farman of Imam Aga Ali Shah Bombay A.D. 1884:)
Interestingly enough..Namaz isn't an arabic word at all..it has never been mentioned in the Qu'ran..prayer has...as well as Salaat.s786 wrote:Furthermore, Namaz has been recited since the time of Prophet Muhammed. This is not something new, or something that was created recently.
The origins of the Word Namaz are persian...coming from the word used by the Zorastrians for Fire worship.
In the Qu'ran Allah only tells us to establish prayer...not how to pray..or what to pray for..
in the preamble to the ismaili constitution MHI retains the right to all our tariqah matters..he is who established our Dua..and thus we pray.
if you study the 5 time namaz of the other muslims, you will find that they only recite 20 suras of the quran a day...Ismailis..in our 3 prayers...recite 21...
as MHI has said in numerous farmans..our dua/prayers are such that they can be recited anywhere in a matter of 3 mins..on a bus..in the train..at work..at university..at the right time..we don't need to find the east or to roll out our musallah..(i am not bashing any other faiths)...
We aren't bound by the rules of the others within the Muslim Ummah..but are bound by the farmans of the Imam. We have given Baiyat to the Imam of the time.
Ya Ali Madat.
ShamsB