Dream with MHI

[s786]

Hello,

Kindly respect what I am about to ask.

I have a friend who confides in me very deeply. Without mentioning any names, nicknames or anything as such she has asked me to ask if someone has a dream with MHI in it, what is the significance? Is it just any ordinary dream or is there a meaning behind it? I have heard people say “if you see the noor of Allah (MHI?) then you must not tell anyone”… If someone could explain this to me, it would help. I will directly pass this message along to her.

Thank you so much for your help.

YAM

S786

[unnalhaq]

...ask if someone has a dream with MHI in it, what is the significance? Is it just any ordinary dream or is there a meaning behind it? I have heard people say “if you see the noor of Allah (MHI?) then you must not tell anyone”… If someone could explain this to me, it would help. I will directly pass this message along to her.

I don't know what the meaning of seeing MHI in your dreams would mean. But what you referred to of hearing that "“if you see the noor of Allah (MHI?) then you must not tell anyone”
I think it is not the exact phrase but it is from a very recent (last 15 years or so) Farman of Bait-Ul-Khial, where He explained that if your see the "Light" it will bring you happiness and nothing else can bring you...and (I am paraphrasing it) once you have seen the light you must not tell others.
It is my opinion is that may be because others may not believe you or it may cause problems amongst you and others.
As to seeing Imam in your dreams, that’s another topic. This goes back to 47th and 48th Imam, where someone asked the Imam (of that time) that, that person was seeing the Imam in his/her dreams and the Imam told him/her that to keep it to him/her self and don't tell the others.
In my opinion it may be that you are in His thoughts and that is the confirmation?

[kmaherali]

Further to Imam's guidance on it as quoted by unnalhaq, if the dream is authentic and of any personal significance in terms of guidance or message, it will be very obvious to the individual and no other person's interpretation would be necessary. The following are anecdotes of two dreams that occured during MHI's visit to Karachi November, 1991. These clearly indicate that there was a message to the individuals concerned of personal nature and action had to be taken. The veracity of the dreams was obviously confirmed! What is even more interesting is that the respective dreams happened to two and three individuals concurrently!

*****

When Hazar Imam left Garden Jamat Khana on On November 6th at 7:00 pm, a large crowd had gathered near the road. Amongst the throng of Muslims stood two Hindu ladies who were waiting for the Imam. Because of the heavy rush, the Aga Khan Volunteers were forced to cordon off the crowd with a rope.

As the car approached the women, Imam moved from one side of the seat to the other, opened the window and revealed His Holy Face. Just then, the rope broke exactly where these women were standing. They stepped forward towards the car and received the Imam's Holy Didar. Imam then closed the window.

The Ismaili Volunteers were astonished at this incident. When the Imam departed, they approached the women and asked about it. The women said, "We are not Muslims, but Hindus. Our lord Krishna told us in a dream last night that He would make His appearance on a road neat the Jamat Khana of the Khoja Ismailis in the midst of a large crowd. Indeed, today we have seen our Lord!"

*****
On November 8th, during Mehmani at Nizari Jamat Khana, Imam suddenly told one of the leaders present to go to the door of the Jamat Khana and wait for His three followers who were on a train about 25 miles from Karachi. The leader obediently followed the Imam's instructions.

After 40 minutes, a taxi arrived with three Sindhi passengers. They tried to enter the Jamat Khana premises. The leader saw them and brought them before the Imam. Imam spoke with them for a few minutes before allowing them to go. As they were leaving the Jamat Khana, the astonished leader approached them and inquired about who they were. They replied, "We are three brothers living in Hyderabad (a city about 80 miles from Karachi.) Last night in a dream Hazar Imam told us to come to Karachi in the morning and that He would be waiting for us at Nizari Jamat Khana. So we came immediately by train."

[tasbiha]

I have read elsewhere in this forum that if one dreams of any HI, that dream is from Satan. However, if one dreams of the Holy Prophet (saw) that dream is from Allah, and never from Satan.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would love to hear more about the 'noor.'

[kmaherali]

I have read elsewhere in this forum that if one dreams of any HI, that dream is from Satan. However, if one dreams of the Holy Prophet (saw) that dream is from Allah, and never from Satan.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would love to hear more about the 'noor.'

The dreams alluded to in the anecdotes given earlier, do not seem satanic!

'Noor' as is well known means light. In the context of this discussion it alludes to a sense of spiritual enlightenment one experiences if successful in Baitul Khayal which involves contemplation and meditation upon the special name given by the Imam. It is a sense of happiness and peace which gives assurance and faith. MHI has discouraged individuals to communicate this experience to others if they experience it.

[tasbiha]

That wasn't the kind of noor I was talking about. I don't think the 'dreamer' above was talking about that kind of noor, either, HINT HINT, NUDGE NUDGE.

You know what I'm talking about. Please don't pretend to be stupid on this topic. It doesn't work.

[star_munir]

It is written in book Noor-e-mubin that khwaja Kamaludin was suffering from a disease which was very dangerous.He was not recovered although he went to many doctors of paris and london.Than there was only one way and that was to pray.He prayed for many weeks.Than one day he saw a dream.He saw Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah in dream and He said him to take a special kind of kathol [dal ka dana] found in mountainous area of India.He also said how to use it.Khwaja followed what Imam said to him in his dream and he was well within 6 months.

[logical]

Hello,

Kindly respect what I am about to ask.

I have a friend who confides in me very deeply. Without mentioning any names, nicknames or anything as such she has asked me to ask if someone has a dream with MHI in it, what is the significance? Is it just any ordinary dream or is there a meaning behind it? I have heard people say “if you see the noor of Allah (MHI?) then you must not tell anyone”… If someone could explain this to me, it would help. I will directly pass this message along to her.

Thank you so much for your help.
S786

The Creator has many names or

"To Him belongs the most beautiful names 59:24 "

The Creator is in essence -> NOOR/light and this NOOR has been given many names , Allah being one.

Note:I may assign as many NAMES to this ESSENCE including the names of all IMAMS because this NOOR is mazhared in the Imams.

Becoming One with this NOOR is an ESOTERC or batini belief condemned as shirk by the majority literalists who believe that the Creator is seprate from His creations. So, to save you from any harm it is wise not to discuss having become ONE with the Creator (batini deedar) because the literalists can abuse you or kill you in name of his Allah.

[arifsali2000]

The Creator has many names or

"To Him belongs the most beautiful names 59:24 "

The Creator is in essence -> NOOR/light and this NOOR has been given many names , Allah being one.

Note:I may assign as many NAMES to this ESSENCE including the names of all IMAMS because this NOOR is mazhared in the Imams.

Help me understand this. Your post came across as very interesting since I'm struggling with understanding the concept of Noor myself.

According to the dictionary, the word essence means :

• The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something.
  The most important ingredient; the crucial element.
  The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things.
  Something that exists, especially a spiritual or incorporeal entity.

Now based on your sentence : "The Creator is in essence -> NOOR/light and this NOOR has been given many names , Allah being one."

Are you suggesting that Noor/light is just one of Creator's element (essence)or Noor/light is the only element (essence)?

a) If Noor/light is the only element of the Creator then Creator Himself is Noor/light? Noor/light = Creator (one entity).

b) If Noor/light is just one of the element of the Creator and Imam is the Mazhar of this Noor/light (one of the element but there is more).

Option (a) doesn't seem plausible to me but it fits your analogy. If the Noor/light is just one of the many elements of the Creator (besides many others) then I am unable to follow your sentence above where you have associated Allah's name to the Noor. Following this logic, there should be Allah (Creator) and then there should be someone else, a seperate entity, let's say Imam but confusion is, your sentence makes me think that they are both the same (Imam and Allah).



Please clarify this for me and let me know if my understanding is wrong.

[logical]

The Creator has many names or

"To Him belongs the most beautiful names 59:24 "

The Creator is in essence -> NOOR/light and this NOOR has been given many names , Allah being one.

Note:I may assign as many NAMES to this ESSENCE including the names of all IMAMS because this NOOR is mazhared in the Imams.

Help me understand this. Your post came across as very interesting since I'm struggling with understanding the concept of Noor myself.

According to the dictionary, the word essence means :

• The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something.
  The most important ingredient; the crucial element.
  The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things.
  Something that exists, especially a spiritual or incorporeal entity.

Now based on your sentence : "The Creator is in essence -> NOOR/light and this NOOR has been given many names , Allah being one."

Are you suggesting that Noor/light is just one of Creator's element (essence)or Noor/light is the only element (essence)?

a) If Noor/light is the only element of the Creator then Creator Himself is Noor/light? Noor/light = Creator (one entity).

b) If Noor/light is just one of the element of the Creator and Imam is the Mazhar of this Noor/light (one of the element but there is more).

Option (a) doesn't seem plausible to me but it fits your analogy. If the Noor/light is just one of the many elements of the Creator (besides many others) then I am unable to follow your sentence above where you have associated Allah's name to the Noor. Following this logic, there should be Allah (Creator) and then there should be someone else, a seperate entity, let's say Imam but confusion is, your sentence makes me think that they are both the same (Imam and Allah).

Please clarify this for me and let me know if my understanding is wrong.

Dear arifsali,

I am referring to (a) or:
a) If Noor/light is the only element of the Creator then Creator Himself is Noor/light? Noor/light = Creator (one entity).

And, this is the belief of Esoteric Islam.

The Batini Tawhid (Monoreality) is:
Not everything is God
Rather, it is:
God is everything.

or, more ostensibly:There is nothing except God.
or, Whatever is, is YA ALY...
or, Noor = Allah and His many Names


The entity is of spiritual nature, that is, Noor of Allah, or call it Noor of Ali (Why Ali? because Islam started with Ali, even though the Noor pre-dates creation).

This Noor or His spiritual nature encompasses everything and contained in everything (even the minutest particles) and possessed all the imaginable and unimaginable attributes that can be attributed to God. Though this Noor is simultaneously present everywhere, this is one and the same Noor. Thus when we say Allah is one, it is not in numerical sense but in essence, and that way He is unique and above everythig else, including and excluding all attributes.

The HQ, for example, says:
"He is the First and the Last, the Evident (Zahir) and the Immanent(Batin) and He has full knowledge of all things"[57:3]

"And He is with you" [57:4]

"Behold! it is HE that encompasses all things." [41: 54]

"Allah is the Light of the Heavens & Earth" [24:35]


Ismaili deen is esoteric:
in Haqiqa (The Truth) there exists nothing but the "Light/Nur" which is expressed by many names.

-> "The most beautiful names belong to Allah. So call on him by them" [7:180]

In marifat all names are merged into oneness of Allah.

"Everything shall perish except His Face" [28:88],

In shariat all names remain separate entities. For example:

"Your Guardian-Lord is God, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority)"[7:54]

"Possessor of the glorious throne" [85:15]

He (Allah) has a Hand, a Face and a Self, as Allah the Most High mentioned in the Qur'an. So whatever Allah the Most High mentioned in the Qur'an concerning the Face, and Hand and the Self, then they are His Attributes without Kaif (asking the nature of the attributes), and it is not said that His Hand means His power or bounty, for this is the denial of His Attribute, and this is the statement of the people of al-Qadr (those who deny the predestination - al-Qadariyah) and al-I'tizaal (the rationalists - al-Mu'tazilah). [al-Fiqh al-Akbar p.302]

Would appreciate your & moderator's comments.

[tasbiha]

Excellent post, logical.

By saying:

"This Noor or His spiritual nature encompasses everything and contained in everything (even the minutest particles) and possessed all the imaginable and unimaginable attributes that can be attributed to God. Though this Noor is simultaneously present everywhere, this is one and the same Noor. "

are you saying that the Noor is the Christian equivalent of the Holy Spirit? or the Primal Intelligence?

Is what you posted about the Noor written about in books? I'd really like to know.

And how does this relate to MHI being the 'bearer of the Noor'?

December 12 and 19, 1965: The London Sunday Times published a long interview in which Mowlana Hazar Imam said, "Since my grandfather, the late Aga Khan died, I have been the bearer of the Noor' which means Light. The Noor has been handed down in direct descent from the the Prophet (s.a.s.)."

Thanks.

[arifsali2000]

I'm still not sure how Noor and Allah are the same (since you clarified your position that Noor = Allah). I can understand that this Noor "encompasses everything and contained in everything" and "possessed all the imaginable and unimaginable attributes that can be attributed to God". But still, God and his Noor are two separate entities. How could they not be?

So far, my understanding is that this God (the one above all else) is beyond comprehension of human mind, something we can't grasp. So we can only grasp his one entity which is his Noor, or at least, we can try to understand his Noor since the portion of his Noor is in all of us as well (a way for us to strive ourselves to merge with his Noor, our nafs-i juzi, individual soul, although corrupt by default merging with Universal Soul).

Am I making sense above?

What about Universal Intellect and Universal Soul? Are they not separate?

Paraphrasing Nasir Khusraw: God (bari), whose Word, the primordial 'Be!' (kun!), was the cause ('illat) of the Universal Intellect ('aql). From the Intellect then proceeds the Universal Soul (nafs-i kulli).

Although, I'm not hundred precent clear on these two terminology (I'm new and don't know much), but keeping aside these two words, I am stuck in the loop of your stance where you clarified that Allah and Noor are the same entity. Logically, they are not sticking in my mind as one right now.

Thanks for your time.

[logical]

Dear Arifsali,
Pls allow me the following:

When you say:
God and his Noor are two separate entities.
&
Be!' (kun!), was the cause ('illat) of the Universal Intellect ('aql). From the Intellect then proceeds the Universal Soul (nafs-i kulli).

They are, in my opinion, thoughts at the shariati level where the Creator is separate from His creations. Pls ponder this because that is what it means with:
God and his Noor are two separate entities.
Similarly, the ahl as sunnah says :
He (Allah) has a Hand, a Face and a Self, as Allah the Most High mentioned in the Qur'an... [al-Fiqh al-Akbar p.302].
These are thoughts at the basic SHARIATI LEVEL - in my opinion, mind you!

What about the marifat level?
What does pir Khusraw say re: the marifat level?
Philosophies are not time-less.
Only the Truth is timeless:
When you call upon His names you call upon -> the seamlesss Noor -> The Monoreal Allah ?
One day you will be retuned to this Noor (HQ) or (asal main wasal).

Noor or allah can only be grasped in the batin.
He exists in our hearts.
Keep polishing your heart with good deeds so this light/noor may enter your heart.

"They look, they see, but do not comprehend.
They take no pleasure in the View,
For to enjoy it one must know
through the Truth of Certainty
What he is seeing."

[kandani]

Ya Ali Madad Arif,

There is a DUAL APPROACH towards God.

He has TWO ASPECTS:

1. The Essence, The Godhead, The Unknowable, The Dhat aspect,
He who is beyond attributes, existence and non-existence, The Ahad (Unity of the One), that which is beyond proper Names

2. The Divinity, The First (Universal) Intellect, The Command (Amr),
The Personal aspect of God, The Sifat Aspect, He who possesses infinite Names and Attributes, the Absolute Necessary Existence, The Wahid (Unity of the Many), that which we call "The Noor"

[kandani]

Furthermore,

The Divinity Aspect comprises of firstly, the Universal Intellect (Absolute Level of Divinity, comprises of Jalali Attributes) and the Universal Soul (Relative Level of Divinity, comprises of Jamali Attributes).

We each have partial Intellect and partial Soul whch we want to elevate the Universal Level.

The basic hierarchy (as I view it) would be:

The Essence - The Unknowable Godhead

The Universal Intellect (Aql-i Kull) - The Noor of Aly

The Universal Soul (Nafs-i Kull) - The Noor of Muhammad

Followed by other levels of soul - angelic, reasoning, animal, vegetable, mineral, atomic, etc.

Higher levels of soul have more share of the Noor, up until the Universal Intellect - which is Absolute or Universal Noor of Allah.

[kmaherali]

YAM,

These are my thoughts.

I will begin with the following statement of MHI.

"Since my grandfather, the late Aga Khan died, I have been the bearer of the Noor"(December 12 and 19, 1965: The London Sunday Times , Interview)

Just as a mother who bears a child is separate from the child, the Imam is separate from the Noor which he bears. In other words the Imam is the essence (the dhat) which bears the Noor the form (the sifati ).

This reflects his Hidayat to the scholars at the IIS where he said that the Imam is the Mazhar-i-dhat-i-Allahi meaning the locus of the manifestation of the essence of Allah.

The 'Noor' is the sifati aspect and the Pir is it's Mazhar. This 'Noor' comprises the universal intellect, the Divine names and in my opinion even the universal soul.

Nasir al-Din Tusi says the following in Paradise of Submission, Tasawwur 24 [$330]:

"The sublime Word(kalima-yi a'la), the First Intellect, and the Universal Soul, each have a manifestation(mazhar) in this world. The manifestation of the sublime Word is the Imam - may salutations ensue upon mention of him - [whose reality] is beyond human thought and imagination, and above all description, whether it be positive or negative. The manifestation of the First Intellect is the supreme hujjat of the Imam. The manifestation of the Universal Soul is the Prophet who vouchsafes the soul of men the aptitude to receive, during the initial period, that form which constitutes their ultimate perfection."

Based on the Hidayat and the will of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah. There are only two categories. The Imam and the Pir. The Pir would combine the role of the Hujjat and the Prophet in Tusi's view of things.

[aminL]

Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Sha has said that "We Imams do not come in the dreams of anyone, but if We do then you should not speak of it."
Why, I do not know and frankly do not care why. I definatly belive that there is a significance behind seeing the Imam in your dreams and there is always a message within it.

[boubou1512]

YAM

But i dont understand why do they would come in our dream...we should all get to see the NOOR by doing BANDAGI, if someone sees HI in his dream, does he sees the NOOR too? if he doesnt, then why would HI come in his dreams...this is complicated! and if he sees the NOOR, then why dont people who practice BANDAGI since a while dont see it either

and why do we have to keep secret that He came in our dreams??

thanks for answering

[kandani]

There are different realms or worlds of being.

There is the physical world where you have a physical body.

There is the Imaginal World where you have an imaginal body.

There is the spiritual world where you have a soul.

The Imam can appear in each of these worlds.

In dreams, you are sort of getting a "batini didar" of the Imam - in the form of his Imaginal body.

In BUK, you can get spiritual or noorani didar of Imam - that is the Noor.

Just wat I seem to figure so far.

[unnalhaq]

YAM

But i dont understand why do they would come in our dream...we should all get to see the NOOR by doing BANDAGI, if someone sees HI in his dream, does he sees the NOOR too? if he doesnt, then why would HI come in his dreams...this is complicated! and if he sees the NOOR, then why dont people who practice BANDAGI since a while dont see it either

and why do we have to keep secret that He came in our dreams??

thanks for answering

There is a bait-ul-khial framan where The present Imam has talked about it. To some it up, He says it's the Noor or light chooses who is going to be touched by it [the light] and for some it may never happen.
I have a very busy schedule now but if you PM me with your email address I'll try to get it out to you by sometime this fall '05.