IMAM IS VISHNU, WHO ARE BRAHMA AND SHIVA THESE DAYS.

[shivaathervedi]

In Satpunthi Ismailism Hazar Imam is considered as VISHNU, then who are BRAHMA and SHIVA along with him in modern times?

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad.
For sathpunthi ( haqiqati level) only Ali is God the creator.
so many religion gave many facet and status to Godhead.
so for historian of ginan,they may some lead.
For haqiqati Ali Mohammed and ALI are at the destination.
So if that stand is taken ,3 or 369 names of GOD was/is ALI.
another act of sabre rattling.
One must not mix tradition material and farmans if baatin understanding is not achieved by that person.
Historian can go on copy pasting and fill another 8-10 pages.
In words of MHI to highly educated it is CLASS OF IGNORANCE.

[Admin]

In Satpunthi Ismailism Hazar Imam is considered as VISHNU, then who are BRAHMA and SHIVA along with him in modern times?

All of them are included in Krishna. This is what is said in the Gita. Ignorance of the Gita is no excuse. So today also all of the Gods are included in the One and only One.

[kmaherali]

In Satpunthi Ismailism Hazar Imam is considered as VISHNU, then who are BRAHMA and SHIVA along with him in modern times?

In the Ginan: Ginan: Aasmaanee ta(m)bal vaajeeya, it is stated:

ejee aasamaanee ta(m)bal vaajeeyaa, saamee tame bhale aayaajee...1

O momins! The heavenly trumpets have sounded, o Lord,Your arrival is a boon and You are welcome.

Comment: This verse alludes to the breakthrough spiritual experience in which a murid first experiences the Divine entering it. The sounding of the heavenly trumpets is symbolic of the experience being so vivid that the person has no doubt that it is a unique moment filled with joy and establishes permanent faith in God.

ejee hastaa ne khelataa aavyaa, kottaddeeyaa ughaaddyaa jee.......2

O momins! He arrived laughing and playing and liberated this bodily hut.

Comment: The arrival in laughing and playing manner reinforces the nature of this moment as being special filled with happiness. The impurities of the body are thereby eliminated as the soul becomes aware of a happiness of a superior nature which is not bound by external considerations and hence no need to engage in lower (sinful) pleasures.

ejee ennee re kottaddee-e gurnar besantaa, kenne najare su(n) deetthaa...................3

O momins! The GurNar (Imam) is seated in such a hut, for I have seen him with my own (inner) eyes (having had the experience).

ejee jenne ridaamaa(n)he ollakhyaa, tenaa hayddaamaa(n) betthaajee.....4

O momins! The Lord resides in the heart of the one who has recognised Him in his heart (through the experience alluded above).

ejee bhiramaane vishnu mahesar betthaa ved ja vaache jee..........5

O momins! The Creator (Bhrama), the Ruler (Vishnu) and the Destroyer of evil (Maheshvar) as one entity is seated (in the heart) reading the scriptures only.

From verse 1, 3 and 5 above we can conclude that Vishnu, Bhrama and maheswar and the GurNar (Imam) are one.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad:
This volcanic dust has raised this point over three times in other topics.
He want to start a copy pasting debate with the wise member.nothing more.
He is like ignorant refusing to accept the true properties of water bcoz he cannot see hydrogen and oxygen with his own eyes,so does all.
All educated do see the two at basic appearance of water but firmly believe in its composition and do go on on that it's true composition is not.in same way noir of Imam is God and face & body is human.We cannot see both at low level of faith but haqiqati believez in it.
So this prank is on from day from this unblessed but rather curded soul hovering in the website.
Admin has to take a call how long he wishes to have bhoot and palits on his website.
Anybody still believing this dust as an Ismaili is the biggest fool taken for a ride.
Today Christian and Hindus are more blessed than Sharitis who went ashtrayed with teaching and them still getting blessed with much earlier age prophets for them.
They do have concept of ibaadat/meditation in their religion with love and charity.
Shariatis have failed in all three.with only low marks in last one.
I need a research reply on which sunni sect/firqa has ibaadat as part of their practice of faith.Please reply on as know more and study them on who gave them practice of ibaadat.this is important even for IIS ,if there is debate to prove a point.
That is more quality work than copy pasting of dead era over and over and over again.
It looks like some members are used to hearing barking sound as a part n parcel of their scholastic life.
Same like water ,the inner truth is more rewarding to know the Imam,where rewards aplenty.
Like a fool said he is also bearer of noor as imam will he also say as Imams said hi is the creator,he is face of Allah.A dust trying to equate himself on and at appearance level.
God bless and forgive Admin for his afterlife.

[shivaathervedi]

In Satpunthi Ismailism Hazar Imam is considered as VISHNU, then who are BRAHMA and SHIVA along with him in modern times?

In the Ginan: Ginan: Aasmaanee ta(m)bal vaajeeya, it is stated:

ejee aasamaanee ta(m)bal vaajeeyaa, saamee tame bhale aayaajee...1

O momins! The heavenly trumpets have sounded, o Lord,Your arrival is a boon and You are welcome.

Comment: This verse alludes to the breakthrough spiritual experience in which a murid first experiences the Divine entering it. The sounding of the heavenly trumpets is symbolic of the experience being so vivid that the person has no doubt that it is a unique moment filled with joy and establishes permanent faith in God.

ejee hastaa ne khelataa aavyaa, kottaddeeyaa ughaaddyaa jee.......2

O momins! He arrived laughing and playing and liberated this bodily hut.

Comment: The arrival in laughing and playing manner reinforces the nature of this moment as being special filled with happiness. The impurities of the body are thereby eliminated as the soul becomes aware of a happiness of a superior nature which is not bound by external considerations and hence no need to engage in lower (sinful) pleasures.

ejee ennee re kottaddee-e gurnar besantaa, kenne najare su(n) deetthaa...................3

O momins! The GurNar (Imam) is seated in such a hut, for I have seen him with my own (inner) eyes (having had the experience).

ejee jenne ridaamaa(n)he ollakhyaa, tenaa hayddaamaa(n) betthaajee.....4

O momins! The Lord resides in the heart of the one who has recognised Him in his heart (through the experience alluded above).

ejee bhiramaane vishnu mahesar betthaa ved ja vaache jee..........5

O momins! The Creator (Bhrama), the Ruler (Vishnu) and the Destroyer of evil (Maheshvar) as one entity is seated (in the heart) reading the scriptures only.

From verse 1, 3 and 5 above we can conclude that Vishnu, Bhrama and maheswar and the GurNar (Imam) are one.

The question I asked struck to my mind when I read your explanation of Ginan "aasmaney ta(n)mbal vajaaya" in Ginan thread.
The theme of this Ginan keep changing. You quoted 1-5 parts and concluded your research. Please concentrate on part 5:
EJI BRAHMA NEY VISHNU MAHESAR BETHAA VED JA VAACHEY JI
The simple meaning is 'BRAHMA, VISHNU, MAHESAR SEATED READING VED',
there isn't any wording which suggest meaning 'AS ONE ENTITY' as you wrote. You should have included the last 3 parts of this Ginan, which are:

ejee kalmaa(n)he mahamad shahnee venatee, tame bhulee ma jaao jee...13

In the present age Prophet Muhammed pleads: "do not be forgetful".

ejee ved kur-aan maa(n)he saakh chhe, tenee aavee edhaannaa jee..14

The link between a mureed and the Mursheed is to be found in the holy
scriptures and the Holy Qur'aan. The sign (announcement) of it has come.

ejee peer sadardeen boleeyaa, tame geenaan vichaaro jee..........15

Peer Sadardeen has said: "Reflect upon the 'geenaans',
Divine knowledge and wisdom "
In above parts, what is your opinion about," In the present age, Muhammad Shah, and Quran?"

[shivaathervedi]

In Satpunthi Ismailism Hazar Imam is considered as VISHNU, then who are BRAHMA and SHIVA along with him in modern times?

All of them are included in Krishna. This is what is said in the Gita. Ignorance of the Gita is no excuse. So today also all of the Gods are included in the One and only One.

In era of Shah Karim Hazar Imam chapter on Hari, krishna, Rama is closed. Please follow the PREAMBLE OF CONSTITUTION. Explanation in PREAMBLE is the real Ismailism. I suggest every Ismaili to read and keep in mind the articles mentioned in Preamble. Surah Ikhlas in 6th part of Du'a mentions, there is only one God, Allah who is one, unique, and there is no comparison in universe. Men made gods are dead.

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali madad.
For sathpunthi ( haqiqati level) only Ali is God the creator.
so many religion gave many facet and status to Godhead.
so for historian of ginan,they may some lead.
For haqiqati Ali Mohammed and ALI are at the destination.
So if that stand is taken ,3 or 369 names of GOD was/is ALI.
another act of sabre rattling.
One must not mix tradition material and farmans if baatin understanding is not achieved by that person.
Historian can go on copy pasting and fill another 8-10 pages.
In words of MHI to highly educated it is CLASS OF IGNORANCE.

In Kachhi it is said, likhey allano ney parhey mollano; hu haliya viya ney tou khey chhdey viya. What you want to explain! Just writing repeatedly same lines won't make a scholar or historian.

JAAHAL KO JAHL KA INA'AM DIYA JAAI
ISS GARDISH E AYYAM KO KIA NAAM DIYA JAAI
MAI KHANEY KI TOHEEN, AUR RINDDU KI HITTAK
KIS KUM ZARAF KE HATHO(N) MEY GAR JAAM DIYA JAAI

[shivaathervedi]

Second Article of Preamble reads;

In accordance with Shia Doctrine, Tradition, and Interpretation of history, the Holy Prophet DESIGNATED AND APPOINTED his cousin and son- in- law Hazrat Mawlana ALI AMIRUL MU'MININ, to be the the first Imam to continue the Ta'wil and Ta'lim of ALLAH'S FINAL MESSAGE and to guide the murids, and proclaimed that the Imamat should continue by heredity through Hazrat Mawlana Ali and his daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatimat-az- Zahra, Katun- i- Janat.

No where in Preamble is mentioned 3 Gods or Trinity, but is clearly mentioned that Prophet designated and appointed Mowla Ali as first Imam.

[Admin]

Also nowhere does the constitution talks of any of the Attributes of Allah or of the Qaba isn't it but there lies your roots.

[shivaathervedi]

Also nowhere does the constitution talks of any of the Attributes of Allah or of the Qaba isn't it but there lies your roots.

The first article of preamble." The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims affirm Shahadah,' La ilaha illallah Muhammadur Rasulullah,' the Tawheed there in and that the Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH is the last and final Prophet of Allah. Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal. The Holy Prophet PBUH through the divine revelation from Allah prescribed rules governing spritual and temporal matters."

Every Ismailii should follow the tenets of Islam and Ismailism as prescribed in Preamble, the most important document for Ismailis onward. The Holy Prophet through Divine revelation from ALLAH prescribed rules governing spiritual and temporal matters. Each Imam in their tenure explained these rules according to changing times.

When we introduce some one, we do not start with saying the man has 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 hands, one nose and so on, or he can talk, he can walk, he can dance, but we say his name. Allah the supreme God of universe has unlimited attributes, hence when we say Allah means His attributes are included in His Dhat.

Ka'ba is Allah's house in which Mowla Ali was born. Any person who is born will die and can't be called Allah according to Surah Ikhlas, no father - no son.

[Admin]

Allah can not be housed in any stone structure but he can be housed in the heart of his believer. The creation may be Allah's house. Why restrict him? Isn't this the root of all evil when people try to restrict Allah??

[shivaathervedi]

Allah can not be housed in any stone structure but he can be housed in the heart of his believer. The creation may be Allah's house. Why restrict him? Isn't this the root of all evil when people try to restrict Allah??

Each particle in universe is Mazhar of Allah including structure of Ka'ba. When I mentioned 2nd article of Preamble you came up with name of Ka'ba and I provided a historical fact.

EJI TEY MURTAZA ALI AVATARIYA
ABU TALIB NEY GHAREY AVTAAR
BAITULLAH MAHE(N) PAIDA THAYA
TEY SHAHER MAKKA MINJAAR

MOMIN CHETAMANI, PART 79.