Hindu Mythology and Indian Terminology / Civilisations

[shivaathervedi]

BHAGAVAD GITA

The Bhagavad Gita "Song of the Lord", often referred to as simply the Gita, is a 700-verse Hindu scripture in Sanskrit that is part of the Hindu epic Mahabharata.
Hindu traditionalists assert that the Gita came into existence in the third or fourth millennium BCE. Scholars accept dates from the fifth century to the second century BCE as the probable range.
The Gita is set in a narrative framework of a dialogue between Pandava prince Arjuna and his guide and charioteer Lord Krishna. Facing the duty as a warrior to fight the Dharma Yudhha or righteous war between Pandavas and Kauravas, Arjuna is counselled by Lord Krishna to "fulfill his Kshatriya (warrior) duty as a warrior and establish Dharma, is "a dialogue between diverging attitudes concerning methods toward the attainment of liberation (moksha)". The Bhagavad Gita was exposed to the world through Sanjaya, who senses and cognizes all the events of the battlefield . Sanjaya is Dhritarashtra's advisor and also his charioteer.
The Bhagavad Gita presents a synthesis of the concept of Dharma, theistic bhakti, the yogic ideals of moksha through jnana, bhakti, karma, and Raja Yoga.
Numerous commentaries have been written on the Bhagavad Gita with widely differing views on the essentials. Vedanta commentators read varying relations between Self and Brahman in the text: Advaita Vedanta sees the non-dualism of Atman (soul) and Brahman as its essence, whereas Bhedabheda and Vishishtadvaita see Atman and Brahman as both different and non-different, and Dvaita sees them as different. The setting of the Gita in a battlefield has been interpreted as an allegory for the ethical and moral struggles of the human life.
The Bhagavad Gita's call for selfless action inspired many leaders of the Indian independence movement including Bal Gangadhar Tilak and Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi. Gandhi referred to the Gita as his "spiritual dictionary".

The epic Mahabharata is traditionally ascribed to the Sage Vyasa; the Bhagavad Gita, being a part of the Mahabharata's Bhishma Parva, is also ascribed to him.
Theories on the date of composition of the Gita vary considerably. Hindu traditionalists assert that the Gita came into existence in the third or fourth millennium BCE, around the ending of Dwapara Yuga. The date of the Kurukshetra war and the delivery of Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna by Sri Krishna are supposed to be around 3139 BCE.:
According to B. V. Raman, Sri Krishna was born on 19 July 3228 BCE.
In 2005 A. K. Bansal calculated 21 July 3228 BCE as the birth date of Sri Krishna and Dr. P. V. Holay suggests 13 November 3143 BCE as the beginning of the Kurukshetra war.
A paper presented in a conference in 2004 organised at the location of the death of Sri Krishna which is Prabhas Patan, fixes the death of Sri Krishna on 18 February 3102 BC at the age of 125 years and 7 months. Matsya Purana mentions that he was 89 years old when the battle was fought. And Mahabharata states that Sri Krishna lived 36 years after the Kurukshetra war. Scholars accept dates from the fifth century to the second century BCE as the probable range. Professor Jeaneane Fowler, in her commentary on the Gita, considers second century BCE to be the likely date of composition. Kashi Nath Upadhyaya, a Gita scholar, on the basis of the estimated dates of Mahabharata, Brahma sutras, and other independent sources, concludes that the Bhagavad Gita was composed in the fifth or fourth century BCE.
It is generally agreed that, "Unlike the Vedas, which have to be preserved letter-perfect, the Gita was a popular work whose reciters would inevitably conform to changes in language and style", so the earliest "surviving" components of this dynamic text are believed to be no older than the earliest "external" references we have to the Mahabharata epic, which may include an allusion in Panini's fourth century BCE grammar. It is estimated that the text probably reached something of a "final form" by the early Gupta period (about the 4th century CE). The actual dates of composition of the Gita remain unresolved.
Bhagavad Gita in ancient Indian literature;
There is no reference to the Bhagavad Gita in Buddhist literature i.e. Tripitaka. The Buddha refers to 3 Veda rather than the 4 Vedas, as per general perception in many dialogues. So, availability of Bhagavad Gita during Buddha's time creates doubt.

Due to its presence in the Mahabharata, the Bhagavad Gita is classified as a Smriti text or "that which is remembered". The smriti texts of the period between 200 BCE - 100 CE belong to the emerging "Hindu Synthesis", proclaiming the authority of the Vedas while integrating various Indian traditions and religions. Acceptance of the Vedas became a central criterion for defining Hinduism over and against the heterodoxies, which rejected the Vedas.
The Bhagavad Gita is part of the Prasthanatrayi, which also includes the Upanishads and Brahma sutras. These are the key texts for the Vedanta, which interprets these texts to give a unified meaning. Advaita Vedanta sees the non-dualism of Atman and Brahman as its essence, whereas Bhedabheda and Vishishtadvaita see Atman and Brahman as both different and non-different, and Dvaita sees them as different. In recent times the Advaita interpretation has gained worldwide popularity, due to the Neo-Vedanta of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan, while the Achintya Bheda Abheda interpretation has gained worldwide popularity via the Hare Krishnas, a branch of Gaudiya Vaishnavism.
Although early Vedanta gives an interpretation of the sruti texts of the Upanishads, and its main commentary the Brahman Sutras, the popularity of the Bhagavad Gita was such that it could not be neglected. It is referred to in the Brahman Sutras, and Shankara, Bhaskara and Ramanuja all three wrote commentaries on it. The Bhagavad Gita is different from the Upanishads in format and content, and accessible to all, in contrast to the sruti, which are only to be read and heard by the higher castes.
Some branches of Hinduism give it the status of an Upanishad, and consider it to be a Śruti or "revealed text". According to Pandit, who gives a modern-orthodox interpretation of Hinduism, "since the Bhagavad Gita represents a summary of the Upanishadic teachings, it is sometimes called 'the Upanishad of the Upanishads'.
Narrative;
In the epic Mahabharata, after Sanjaya—counsellor of the Kuru king Dhritarashtra—returns from the battlefield to announce the death of Bhishma, he begins recounting the details of the Mahabharata war. Bhagavad Gita forms the content of this recollection. The Gita begins before the start of the climactic Kurukshetra War, where the Pandava prince Arjuna is filled with doubt on the battlefield. Realizing that his enemies are his own relatives, beloved friends, and revered teachers, he turns to his charioteer and guide, God Incarnate Lord Shri Krishna, for advice. Responding to Arjuna's confusion and moral dilemma, Krishna explains to Arjuna his duties as a warrior and prince, elaborating on a variety of philosophical concepts.

Bhagavad Gita comprises 18 chapters, in the Bhishma Parva of the epic Mahabharata and consists of 700 verses. Because of differences in recensions, the verses of the Gita may be numbered in the full text of the Mahabharata. According to the recension of the Gita commented on by Adi Shankara, a prominent philosopher of the Vedanta school, the number of verses is 700, but there is evidence to show that old manuscripts had 745 verses. The verses themselves, composed with similes and metaphors, are poetic in nature.
The Sanskrit editions of the Gita name each chapter as a particular form of yoga. However, these chapter titles do not appear in the Sanskrit text of the Mahabharata. Swami Chidbhavananda explains that each of the eighteen chapters is designated as a separate yoga because each chapter, like yoga, "trains the body and the mind". He labels the first chapter "Arjuna Vishada Yogam" or the "Yoga of Arjuna's Dejection".
Gita Dhyanam: (contains 9 verses) The Gita Dhyanam is not a part of the main Bhagavad Gita, but it is commonly published with the Gītā as a prefix. The verses of the Gita Dhyanam (also called Gītā Dhyāna or Dhyāna Ślokas) offer salutations to a variety of sacred scriptures, figures, and entities, characterise the relationship of the Gītā to the Upanishads, and affirm the power of divine assistance. It is a common practice to recite these before reading the Gita.
Arjuna–Visada yoga (The Distress of Arjuna contains 46 verses): Arjuna has requested Krishna to move his chariot between the two armies. His growing dejection is described as he fears losing friends and relatives as a consequence of war.
Sankhya yoga (The Book of Doctrines contains 72 verses): After asking Krishna for help, Arjuna is instructed into various subjects such as, Karma yoga, Gyaana yoga, Sankhya yoga, Buddhi yoga and the immortal nature of the soul. Sankhya here refers to one of six orthodox schools of the Hindu Philosophy. This chapter is often considered the summary of the entire Bhagavad Gita.
Karma yoga (Virtue in Work or Virtue Of Actions contains 43 verses): Krishna explains how Karma yoga, i.e. performance of prescribed duties, but without attachment to results, is the appropriate course of action for Arjuna.
Gyaana–Karma-Sanyasa yoga (The Religion of Knowledge contains 42 verses): Krishna reveals that he has lived through many births, always teaching yoga for the protection of the pious and the destruction of the impious and stresses the importance of accepting a guru.
Karma–Sanyasa yoga (Religion by Renouncing Fruits of Works contains 29 verses): Arjuna asks Krishna if it is better to forgo action or to act ("renunciation or discipline of action"). Krishna answers that both are ways to the same goal, but that acting in Karma yoga is superior.
Dhyan yoga or Atmasanyam yoga (Religion by Self-Restraint contains 47 verses): Krishna describes the Ashtanga yoga. He further elucidates the difficulties of the mind and the techniques by which mastery of the mind might be gained.
Gyaana–ViGyaana yoga (Religion by Discernment contains 30 verses): Krishna describes the absolute reality and its illusory energy Maya.
Aksara–Brahma yoga (Religion by Devotion to the One Supreme God contains 28 verses): This chapter contains eschatology of the Bhagavad Gita. Importance of the last thought before death, differences between material and spiritual worlds, and light and dark paths that a soul takes after death are described.
Raja–Vidya–Raja–Guhya yoga (Religion by the Kingly Knowledge and the Kingly Mystery contains 34 verses): Krishna explains how His eternal energy pervades, creates, preserves, and destroys the entire universe.
Vibhuti–Vistara–yoga (Religion by the Heavenly Perfections contains 42 verses): Krishna is described as the ultimate cause of all material and spiritual existence. Arjuna accepts Krishna as the Supreme Being, quoting great sages who have also done so.

Krishna displays his Vishvarupa (Universal Form) to Arjuna on the battlefield of Kurukshetra, described in Visvarupa–Darsana yoga, chapter 11
Visvarupa–Darsana yoga (The Manifesting of the One and Manifold contains 55 verses): On Arjuna's request, Krishna displays his "universal form" (Viśvarūpa), a theophany of a being facing every way and emitting the radiance of a thousand suns, containing all other beings and material in existence.
Bhakti yoga (The Religion of Faith contains 20 verses): In this chapter Krishna glorifies the path of devotion to God. Krishna describes the process of devotional service (Bhakti yoga). He also explains different forms of spiritual disciplines.
Ksetra–Ksetrajna Vibhaga yoga (Religion by Separation of Matter and Spirit contains 35 verses): The difference between transient perishable physical body and the immutable eternal soul is described. The difference between individual consciousness and universal consciousness is also made clear.
Gunatraya–Vibhaga yoga (Religion by Separation from the Qualities contains 27 verses): Krishna explains the three modes (gunas) of material nature pertaining to goodness, passion, and nescience. Their causes, characteristics, and influence on a living entity are also described.
Purusottama yoga (Religion by Attaining the Supreme contains 20 verses): Krishna identifies the transcendental characteristics of God such as, omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence. Krishna also describes a symbolic tree (representing material existence), which has its roots in the heavens and its foliage on earth. Krishna explains that this tree should be felled with the "axe of detachment", after which one can go beyond to his supreme abode.
Daivasura–Sampad–Vibhaga yoga (The Separateness of the Divine and Undivine contains 24 verses): Krishna identifies the human traits of the divine and the demonic natures. He counsels that to attain the supreme destination one must give up lust, anger, greed, and discern between right and wrong action by discernment through Buddhi and evidence from the scriptures.
Sraddhatraya-Vibhaga yoga (Religion by the Threefold Kinds of Faith contains 28 verses): Krishna qualifies the three divisions of faith, thoughts, deeds, and even eating habits corresponding to the three modes (gunas).
Moksha–Sanyasa yoga (Religion by Deliverance and Renunciation contains 78 verses): In this chapter, the conclusions of previous seventeen chapters are summed up. Krishna asks Arjuna to abandon all forms of dharma and simply surrender unto him and describes this as the ultimate perfection of life.
The term dharma has a number of meanings. Fundamentally, it means "what is right". Early in the text, responding to Arjuna's despondency, Krishna asks him to follow his swadharma, "the dharma that belongs to a particular man (Arjuna) as a member of a particular varna, (i.e., the kshatriya)." Many traditional followers accept and believe that every man is unique in nature(svabhava) and hence svadharma for each and every individual is also unique and must be followed strictly with sole bhakthi and shraddha.

The first reference to dharma in the Bhagavad Gita occurs in its first verse, where Dhritarashtra refers to the Kurukshetra, the location of the battlefield, as the Field of Dharma, "The Field of Righteousness or Truth".
"The Field of Dharma" is also called the "Field of action" by Sri Aurobindo, a freedom fighter and philosopher. Sarvapalli Radhakrishnan, a philosopher and the second president of India, saw the "The Field of Dharma" as the world (Bhavsagar), which is a "battleground for moral struggle".
Allegory of war;
Eknath Easwaran writes that the Gita's subject is "the war within, the struggle for self-mastery that every human being must wage if he or she is to emerge from life victorious", and that "The language of battle is often found in the scriptures, for it conveys the strenuous, long, drawn-out campaign we must wage to free ourselves from the tyranny of the ego, the cause of all our suffering and sorrow."
Swami Nikhilananda, takes Arjuna as an allegory of Ātman, Krishna as an allegory of Brahman, Arjuna's chariot as the body, and Dhritarashtra as the ignorance filled mind.
Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, in his commentary on the Gita, interprets the battle as "an allegory in which the battlefield is the soul and Arjuna, man's higher impulses struggling against evil".
Swami Vivekananda also emphasised that the first discourse in the Gita related to the war could be taken allegorically. Vivekananda further remarked,
This Kurukshetra War is only an allegory. When we sum up its esoteric significance, it means the war which is constantly going on within man between the tendencies of good and evil.
In Aurobindo's view, Krishna was a historical figure, but his significance in the Gita is as a "symbol of the divine dealings with humanity", while Arjuna typifies a "struggling human soul". However, Aurobindo rejected the interpretation that the Gita, and the Mahabharata by extension, is "an allegory of the inner life, and has nothing to do with our outward human life and actions".
Swami Chinmayananda writes:
Here in the Bhagavad Gita, we find a practical handbook of instruction on how best we can re-organise our inner ways of thinking, feeling, and acting in our everyday life and draw from ourselves a larger gush of productivity to enrich the life around us, and to emblazon the subjective life within us.

[kmaherali]

And I am again saying you at that time there were only animals on earth thats why animals were the highest form of creation and animals were ASHRAF UL MAKHLUKAAT at that time, thats why astrologers, gurus, and murids of Imam of time were all in animal form. This ginan only indicate that there were astrologers, its not indicating that those astrologers were humans.

Yes we can't see any animal reading vedas in todays era because Humans are present today and they are ashraful makhlukaat but at that time there were only animals and they were reading those vedas..

MSMS says in his Memoirs:

"Every individual, every molecule, every atom has its own spiritual relationship with the All-Powerful Soul of God. But men and women, being more highly developed, are immensely more advanced than the infinite number of other beings known to us."

http://www.ismaili.net/Source/0016b.html

There is a vast difference between humans and other beings. There is no way that the other creatures could function as humans! If animals were sufficient and developed, what was the need of man?

You are saying that at one time animals could read the Vedas and perform the science of astrology, but once man evolved, they relinquished those capacities!

Imam sultan mohd shah said " Earth can not survive for a moment without Imam" .

Absolutely!

So according to that farman Imam indirectly saying that Imam was present on earth from the begining of the earth. What do think there were humans on earth for about 4.3 billion yrs ago. And if you think that its totally nonsense.

According to Ginans, when earth was created, the murid of that time were JAKHS ( which means bacteria) it means Imam of the time could also be in highest form of bacteria. And Pir or prophet of the time could also be in some bacteria.

Yes the Imam of the time would be the form of the highest evolved creature. So if Fish was the highest evolved creature then the Imam would be the form of the Fiash. I have no problem with that.

But the narrative of Das Avtaar is NOT about evolution. That is the point I am making. There were humans in during the Macch Avtaar. The Divine took various forms to enable murids to practice their faith properly. It is not the story of evolution as Abually has interpreted it.

In fact according to Ginan: Pahelaa Kartaa Jugamaa(n)he Sonaanaare Ghatt - Translation http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22960

The state of worship during the Karta Jug was far more advanced than the worship of Kaljug.

[kmaherali]

Do you think our pirs were wrong and you are the only one is right?
Do you think other religions including, Hinduism, Jainism and Shikhism are wrong? because they also belives this is Kaliyug.
Off course they are right in believing this is Kaliyug, period. Meanwhile I will find that verses soon, since I just moved in Houston and my all books are still in moving packages.

Which Pir has said that this is Kaljug? Other faiths can believe whatever they want. That is not of our concern. Please do find the verses because I will keep reminding you about it. I know for sure none exists!

FYI:- The Salvation of 12 Karor by pir Sadardin counted right after Kaliyug started ( because there were no 12 karor population during the pir Sadardin time)and many historian believes that Kaliyug has been started after the war of Maha Bharat around 5000 years agoHowever there is considerable controversy over the date for the start of the Kali Yuga and its duration. According to the Surya Siddhanta, Kali Yuga began at midnight (00:00) on 18 February 3102 BCE. According to the astronomer and mathematician Aryabhatta the Kali Yuga started in 3102 BC.

The information has no bearing upon Farta Velaa. We know that the salvation of 12 crores ended when Kaljug ended. Now we are in Farta Velaa which has nothing to do with Kaljug.

[kmaherali]

Off course Shinan you are right but I have a doubt! may be I am wrong but I heard from an Ismaili Study London student that he asked Rai Abu Ali : whether Prahlad in human form? The missionary Abu Ali answered him yes!

That is correct, he was human!

The question remain same.
Below is one verse of one ginan
Eji pehlad ni mae( ma: means mother) tene van (jungle) ma janyo (janmayo means give a birth) now anybody, including kbhai, Admin can thanswer me ! Why the heck, the mother of Pehlaj went in Jungle and give birth to Pehlaj in jungle? Why not in palace?
Answer is this Pehlaj mother was in form of animal and animal mother gives birth her in jungle not in palaces the othd reason to believe that Pehlaj was not human is : his dad Harna (haran means : dear) and Harnakans was devil of that time who killed by one of avtar: Narshing avatar 'that form of our imam was in and between human (half lion and half human) why not Rama, or Krishna not killed him in human shape?? Hecause to kill aj animal imam has to take animal form! Yes,imam can take birth as animal or human beings

If Pahelaaj was an animal then what was so unusual for him to be born in the jungle? Aren't all animals born in jungle?

The point the Pir is making in the Ginan is that Pahelaaj was brought up in very difficult circumstances. Even then, the Protector was always with him. There is mention of the oil-mill in the Ginans. What were animals doing with oil-mill?

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad.
Here we have one non Ismaili throwing bones to test ability of those craving to to be part of it.
It is amusing what MHI says now there is no participation from them.
Ofcourse this is kalyug.
In jogi debate Ginan,Pir stated that he was MOHAMMED in Kalyug.
What more is needed?
Agakhani is reading right which was not needed in the first place.

[kmaherali]

Ofcourse this is kalyug.
In jogi debate Ginan,Pir stated that he was MOHAMMED in Kalyug.

NO this is Farta Velaa according to Pir Hassan Kabirdeen and it has no relationship to kaljug. The Prophets time was Kaljug but it is not anymore!

[kmaherali]

BHAGAVAD GITA

The Bhagavad Gita "Song of the Lord", often referred to as simply the Gita, is a 700-verse Hindu scripture in Sanskrit that is part of the Hindu epic Mahabharata.

It was composed by Vidhur Vyaas who was an Ismaili Pir/Prophet of the time. Hence it can be considered as an Ismaili work. There is a very profound chapter on the significance of Deedar of the Imam in it. It is Chapter 11 and it is given at:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 06&start=0

[agakhani_1]

This time is Kaliyug.
Fartal vela is a part of Kaliyug, as I mentioned earlier, it is not a separate yuga, there are only four yugas.

Which Pir has said that this is Kaljug?

Almost all pirs has said that this is Kaliyug.
I will put now some ginanic verses to prove that this is Kaliyug.

[kmaherali]

Almost all pirs has said that this is Kaliyug.
I will put now some ginanic verses to prove that this is Kaliyug.

You have not shown which Ginan says that countless souls are part of 12 crore souls - A NONSENSE idea. You should be ashamed of mentioning it given your knowledge of figures!

Pir Hassan Kabeerdeen has said:

Ek jire bhaai re baar karodd jiv amraapuri pohotaa
Pir Sadardin vaayake chaaliyaa 17

O brothers!12 crores attained paradise, they followed the guidance of Pir Sadardeen.

Ek jire bhaai re fartaar veraa maanhe
anant karodd jiv
Siri Islaam Shaah nu rup dekhine dhiaayaa 18

O brothers! In the era of turning (from Kaljug to ascending Dwapur Jug), there are countless souls. They worship observing the form of Sri Islam Shah.

Fartaar Velaa has no relationship to Kaljug. It is a separate era bigger than the four Yugas combined!

[agakhani_1]

You have not shown which Ginan says that countless souls are part of 12 crore souls - A NONSENSE idea. You should be ashamed of mentioning it given your knowledge of figures!

Kbhai, you should not use a word nonsense! ( used twice in this thread ) please show my post in which I have wrote that 12 crore souls are a part of countless souls? this is your wrong allegation on me: please show my post first now before I answer your any post
Pir Sadardin already gave salvation to 12 corori jeevs. which are totally different from countless souls
pir Hasan Kabirdin will gives salvation to Ananat Karori jeevs ( countless souls)

[shivaathervedi]

BHAGAVAD GITA

The Bhagavad Gita "Song of the Lord", often referred to as simply the Gita, is a 700-verse Hindu scripture in Sanskrit that is part of the Hindu epic Mahabharata.

It was composed by Vidhur Vyaas who was an Ismaili Pir/Prophet of the time. Hence it can be considered as an Ismaili work. There is a very profound chapter on the significance of Deedar of the Imam in it. It is Chapter 11 and it is given at:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 06&start=0

Please mention the source. Any book,any ginan that Vyasa was an Ismaili?

[shivaathervedi]

Do you think our pirs were wrong and you are the only one is right?
Do you think other religions including, Hinduism, Jainism and Shikhism are wrong? because they also belives this is Kaliyug.
Off course they are right in believing this is Kaliyug, period. Meanwhile I will find that verses soon, since I just moved in Houston and my all books are still in moving packages.

Which Pir has said that this is Kaljug? Other faiths can believe whatever they want. That is not of our concern. Please do find the verses because I will keep reminding you about it. I know for sure none exists!

FYI:- The Salvation of 12 Karor by pir Sadardin counted right after Kaliyug started ( because there were no 12 karor population during the pir Sadardin time)and many historian believes that Kaliyug has been started after the war of Maha Bharat around 5000 years agoHowever there is considerable controversy over the date for the start of the Kali Yuga and its duration. According to the Surya Siddhanta, Kali Yuga began at midnight (00:00) on 18 February 3102 BCE. According to the astronomer and mathematician Aryabhatta the Kali Yuga started in 3102 BC.

The information has no bearing upon Farta Velaa. We know that the salvation of 12 crores ended when Kaljug ended. Now we are in Farta Velaa which has nothing to do with Kaljug.

I wander, is any ginan or part of ginan by pir Sadardin suggests that Kaljug
will end with his tenure?

[shivaathervedi]

EJI KALJUG GHOR ANDHAREY UUPANA
RIKHISAR TAMEY AAP SAMBHARI NE CHALO HO SHAH ALI

EJI KALJUG MAHE(N) BOHOT KARAMAT CHALSEY
TIYA(N) PAKHANDHEY SAHU KOI RACHEY HO SHAH ALI

EJI CHAR LAKH NE BATREES HAJAAR
TE KALJUG NA PRAMAAN HUWA HO SHAH ALI


Note; Historically Kaljug was started in 3102 BC. It is long way to go. We are still in Kaljug. The time frame work of Kaljug is 432000 years as mentioned in above part of ginan.

[shivaathervedi]

JI RE BHAI RE FHARTAAR VERA MA MOTAP AAPI
MUKHO MUKHEY VACHAN KAHAVEY JI

[shivaathervedi]

BHAJAN

A bhajan is any type of Hindu devotional song. It has no fixed form: it may be as simple as a mantra or kirtan or as sophisticated as the dhrupad or kriti with music based on classical ragas and talas. It is normally lyrical, expressing love for the Divine. The name, a cognate of bhakti, meaning religious devotion, suggests its importance to the bhakti movement that spread from the south of India throughout the entire subcontinent in the Moghul era.
Anecdotes and episodes from scriptures, the teachings of saints and descriptions of gods have all been the subject of bhajans. The Dhrupad style, Sufi qawwali and the kirtan or song in the Haridasi tradition are related to bhajan. Nanak, Kabir, Meera, Narottama Dasa, Surdas and Tulsidas are notable composers. Traditions of bhajan such as Nirguni, Gorakhanathi, Vallabhapanthi, Ashtachhap, Madhura-bhakti and the traditional South Indian form Sampradya Bhajan each have their own repertoire and methods of singing.

Bhajans by Kabir, Mirabai, Surdas, Tulsidas and a few others are considered to be classic. The language of their works is influenced by several of the dialects of Hindi. They are widely enjoyed even among those who do not speak Hindi. Here is a representative selection of the best known bhajans by these poets.

Kabir: Chadaria Jhini Re Jhini
This bhajan has been recorded by several well-known singers. Kabir refers to his body as a chadar, a sheet of cloth. Kabir is the best-known exponent of Nirguni bhajan, which celebrate a formless (nirguna) divinity, encouraging listeners to shed dogma and look at reality. Baba Bulleh Shah is another and the Bauls of Bengal have developed from these roots. The Sikh guru Nanak gathered many such bhajans into the Guru Granth Sahib.
This is fine, this is fine cloth.
Dyed in the Ram Nam, the name of the lord,
A spinning wheel like an eight-petalled lotus spins it,
Five elements and three qualities are its pattern.
The Lord tailored it in ten moons,
Pressed the threads to get the weft tight.
It has been worn by gods, men and sages:
They soiled it with use.
Says Kabir; I have covered myself with this cloth most carefully,
And eventually will leave it as it was before.

Meera: Mane Chakar Rakho Ji
A version of this famous hymn was used in the 1947 Hindi film Meerabai. Mirabai lived in Rajasthan and her dialect of Hindi is more properly called a variety of Rajasthani. Because of Rajasthan's proximity to Gujarat, Rajasthani and Gujarati share many similar linguistic features, and Mirabai seemed equally at home in either language.
Lord Girdhari (Krishna), make me your servant.
As your servant, I will plant a garden, and see you every day.
In the groves and lanes of Vrindavan, I will sing about you.

Tulsidas: Shri Ramachandra Kripalu Bhaju Man
O my mind! Revere the kind Sri Rama, who can remove the fear of rebirths,
Who has lotus eyes, lotus face and lotus hands, lotus feet, red like the rising sun.

Surdas: Main Nahi Makhan Khayo
Main Naahin Maakhan Khaayo, a very popular pad in Raga Ramkali. The naughty child Krishna was caught with freshly churned butter by his mother Yashoda, with some still on his face. He claims:
I did not eat the butter, mother.
I think my friends have smeared some on my face!

Modern forms;
V. D. Paluskar and V. N. Bhatkhande have combined Indian classical music with bhajan. Pandit Kumar Gandharva made famous the Nirguni Bhajans of Sant Kabir and Malwa Region. Abhinaya Chakravathi Sri JS Eswara Prasad Rao of Hyderabad, who is the disciple of AL Krishnamurthy Bhagavathar, Pudukkottai system, has produced performances based on Sampradaya bhajans under the title "Nitrya sankeerthnam". He has performed abhinaya for all the bhajans irrespective of the languages.
Jagadguru Shree Kripaluji Maharaj (born 1922) is a prominent poet Saint of modern times, in the path of Bhakti Marg, the path of love or devotion to God. He has composed eleven thousand one hundred and eleven doha (couplets) on the leela of Radha Krishn and the devotional philosophy called Radha Govind Geet; 1008 pad (songs) called Prem Ras Madira; hundreds of kirtan in the form of Yugal Shatak and Yugal Ras and twelve pad which fully describe the beauty and the decorations of Krishn, and thirteen pad which describe the beauty and the decorations of Radha Rani called Shree Krishn Dwadashi and Shree Radha Trayodashi. Renditions of Shree Maharajji's bhajans and kirtans have been recorded by well-known singers in India such as Manna Dey, Anuradha Paudwal, and Anup Jalota.

Also bhajan singing is common in some Surat Shabd Yoga groups. In this case the bhajan are written by the living Master or his predecessors.
Sri Ganapathi Sachchidananda of Mysore has composed over two thousand Bhajans in several Indian languages, set them to tune and sings them. He has encouraged Bhajan singing among his millions of followers across the world.
Sathya Sai bhajans include devotional reverence to all religions including Hinduism, Islam and Christianity etc. Accompanied by traditional Indian musical instruments such as the harmonium and tabla, bhajans set to Indian classical music ragas are led by trained singers and followed by the congregation. Sathya Sai on bhajans, "Bhajans charge the atmosphere with divine adoration".

[kmaherali]

Kbhai, you should not use a word nonsense! ( used twice in this thread ) please show my post in which I have wrote that 12 crore souls are a part of countless souls? this is your wrong allegation on me: please show my post first now before I answer your any post
Pir Sadardin already gave salvation to 12 corori jeevs. which are totally different from countless souls
pir Hasan Kabirdin will gives salvation to Ananat Karori jeevs ( countless souls)

You keep saying that Farta vela is part of Kaljug which implies that countless souls are part of 12 crore souls. This is what I wanted you to explain. I am sorry for my language.

[kmaherali]

Please mention the source. Any book,any ginan that Vyasa was an Ismaili?

It is mentioned in Granth: Anant Akhado.

Aashaajee Jug kartaa maanhe ek kalaa rachaayaa
tees maanhe ham-kun jaanno jee
beejaa jug maanhe Veejeshthann kaheeyen
sobee ham avtaar........................Haree anant..374

Oh Lord During the era of Karta the Lord created a manifestation
I(Pir Hassan Kabirdin) was that manifestation (as Gur
Brahma)
In the Treta Jug the manifestation was called
Veejeshthann
even that was my manifestation
Haree You are eternal...

Aashaajee Jug Dwaapur maanhe Veedur-vyaas kaheeyen
sobee ham-kun jaanno jee
Kal-jug maanhe ham-hi jaanno
sohee Rasul naam........................Haree anant..375

Oh Lord In the Dwaapur Jug the name of the manifestation of Gur
Brahma was Veedur-vyaas
Even He was our form
In the Kal-jug we are the manifestation of Gur Brahma
and it is the same light of the Messenger(Prophet
Muhammed)
Haree You are eternal...

http://www.ismaili.net/granths/part4.html

The above verses indicate that the Light of Piratan was prevalent through all ages. Veedur Vyaas was the manifestation of that Light as was Prophet Muhammad in Kaljug.

[kmaherali]

I wander, is any ginan or part of ginan by pir Sadardin suggests that Kaljug will end with his tenure?

Off hand I am not aware of one, but I have provided a verse from Anant naa Nav Chhugaa in this thread. you will find it on page 8 of this thread.

[kmaherali]

Note; Historically Kaljug was started in 3102 BC. It is long way to go. We are still in Kaljug. The time frame work of Kaljug is 432000 years as mentioned in above part of ginan.

43200 can be days! You may want to read about Swami Sri Yukteshwar's theory about Yugas and how it explains the Farta Velaa at:

time period of jugs and avatar
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... sc&start=0

[kmaherali]

JI RE BHAI RE FHARTAAR VERA MA MOTAP AAPI
MUKHO MUKHEY VACHAN KAHAVEY JI

Please can you provide the reference for this verse? From which Ginan?

[ismaili103]

Note; Historically Kaljug was started in 3102 BC. It is long way to go. We are still in Kaljug. The time frame work of Kaljug is 432000 years as mentioned in above part of ginan.

43200 can be days! You may want to read about Swami Sri Yukteshwar's theory about Yugas and how it explains the Farta Velaa at:

time period of jugs and avatar
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... sc&start=0

Karim bhai..are you serious, you are equating swami yukteshwars theory with Pirs theory. You know well that Pir are Noor e Mohammad and they know all the hidden mystry so there is no way left for doubt.

And 432000 are years.

[shivaathervedi]

JI RE BHAI RE FHARTAAR VERA MA MOTAP AAPI
MUKHO MUKHEY VACHAN KAHAVEY JI

Please can you provide the reference for this verse? From which Ginan?

JIRE BHAI RE SERBANDH SHAH NE KAJEY LAAWIYA
SHAH ISLAM SHAH NI VAAR JI

JI RE BHAI RE SEBANDH HASAN SHAH NE AALIYA
TAREY DHARAM NA MARAM HUWA JI

JI RE BHAI RE FHARTAAR VERA MA MOTAP AAPI
MUKHO MUKHEY VACHAN KAHAVEY JI

JI RE BHAI RE SEYYED IMAM SHAH KO PATTA DIYA
TE JU(N)MPU DWEEP MAHE(N) AAVI NE BHETHA JI

SYED IMAM SHAH.

[kmaherali]

Karim bhai..are you serious, you are equating swami yukteshwars theory with Pirs theory. You know well that Pir are Noor e Mohammad and they know all the hidden mystry so there is no way left for doubt.

And 432000 are years.

MHI in one of his speeches said:

"I can indeed hardly express the depth of my pleasure at receiving the Charter which dignifies that college with the status of a university. In the words of one of Pakistan's most famous voices, that of the poet laureate Iqbal: 'God has said: 'Wisdom is an immense good, wherever you find this invaluable treasure, acquire it'.'"

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/27590

In another speech MHI said:

"All cultures naturally influence each other to a greater or lesser degree; the strongest are those in which the dominant elements remain dominant and refuse to be overwhelmed by external forces. They become stronger still when they retain the ability to select, to absorb that which invigorates and enriches and to reject that which is inimicable." [MHI Speech 26 Sept. 1978]

In my opinion Swami Sri Yukteshwar's theory is invigorating and enriching. How else do you explain Farta Velaa which is greater than the previous 4 yugas in terms of the number of souls for salvation? How else do you explain that the state of worship in the Karta Yuga was superior to the state of worship in the Kaljug? How else can you explain the exploding capacity of man to understand creation?

[kmaherali]

JIRE BHAI RE SERBANDH SHAH NE KAJEY LAAWIYA
SHAH ISLAM SHAH NI VAAR JI

Thanks!, below is the translation...

SEERBA(N)DH SHAAH NE KAAJE LAAVEEYAA
BY SAYYED IMAAM SHAH

jeere bhaaire seerba(n)dh shaahne kaaje laaveeyaa
sree islaamshaah nee vaar jee.......................1

O living brothers, he (Peer Hassan Kabeerdeen) brought the
Turban as a fulfilment of the wish of the Lord. It was in the
presence of the authority of Sree Islaamshaah.

jeere bhaaire seerba(n)dh hasanshaah ne aaleeyaa
taare dharam naa maram huaajee......................2

O living brothers, He (the Imam) returned Hassan Shah the Turban
(as a symbol of granting the authority for the upliftment of the
countless). At that moment all the mysteries of religion became apparent.

jeere bhaaire faddtaall vellaa maa(n) mottap aapee
mukho mukhe vachan kahaavejee.......................3

O living brothers, in the Fadtaa Velaa he was granted the authority, and from every mouth he took the promise (of loyalty).

jeere bhaaire sayyed imaamshaah ku pattaa deeyaa
te ja(m)pudeep maa(n)he aaveene betthaajee..........4

O living brothers, He gave Sayyed Imaam Shaah a strip (from the turban?), and who has come to the Indian Subcontinent where he is seated (or established).

jeere bhaaire tenne chak fa(n)dh vellaa maa(n)he rachnaa keedhee
te islaamshaah bhale aaveeyaajee....................5

O living brothers, He has established Himself in the period of Chak Fandh Velaa (turning moment). Sree Islaamshah's arrival is hailed.

jeere bhaaire ham seer shaahe maheraj keedhee
nur shaahaa naam bhannaayaa jee.....................6

O living brothers, upon my head the Lord has manifested His mercy in
a complete manner as He has taught me the name (concept) of the Manifest Light, the Imaam.

jeere bhaaire rachnaa ruddee kahee-e tamaaree
amraapuree dekhaaddee yaa jee.......................7

O living brothers, Your creation is to be regarded as perfect (or amiable).
You have shown it to be a paradise (when seen with correct perspective).

jeere bhaaire bhamar pala(n)g upar sej beechhaai
us par ham jai betthaajee...........................8

O living brothers, upon the bedstead of the soul, a soft bed was spread.
There upon I went and sat.

jeere bhaaire nur shaahaa kahek maa(n)he betthaa
najaraa najar dekhaaddeeyaa jee.....................9

O living brothers, the Light of Imamat is seated (manifest) in Kahek.
He showed (revealed to) me the mysteries through the entire vision
(inner and outer).

jeere bhaaire sayyed imaamshaah kaheene sunnaaveeyaa
haidde harakh na maahejee..........................10

O living brothers, Sayyed Imaamshah has said and announced this
fact which gives such happiness that cannot be contained in the heart.

jeere bhaaire aana(n)d tab atee ghannaa huaa
reekheesaro saa(m)bhallo geenaan jee...............11

O living brothers, after that (the Vision), there was great joy and bliss.
O believers listen to the "Geenaans" (so that you may attain this exalted state).

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
I wish to know from antique data great readers,maybe their understanding at constant levels is a BIG question mark.
Does vedas ,granth mention God as father of all soul,source of all souls,controller of all souls or words akin to it.
We have to use our mind(if intellect is absence). What Mhi affirmed himself as SPIRITUAL FATHER.
This search would do good from Vedas,granth,Torah,testament, other material is the NEED OF THE HOUR.
or the concept of Spiritual Father came with Jesus Christ or existed earlier in different wordings.

[Admin]

...or the concept of Spiritual Father came with Jesus Christ or existed earlier in different wordings.

This thread is on Hindu Mythology and Indian Terminologies.

You are free to open another thread on Jesus and the concept of spiritual father if you want but in this thread, you will have to stick to the subject and not try to deviate it.

[kmaherali]

You are free to open another thread on Jesus and the concept of spiritual father if you want but in this thread, you will have to stick to the subject and not try to deviate it.

There is already a thread on this subject at:

OUR BELEVOD SPIRITUAL FATHER
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... sc&start=0

[shivaathervedi]

Please mention the source. Any book,any ginan that Vyasa was an Ismaili?

It is mentioned in Granth: Anant Akhado.

Aashaajee Jug kartaa maanhe ek kalaa rachaayaa
tees maanhe ham-kun jaanno jee
beejaa jug maanhe Veejeshthann kaheeyen
sobee ham avtaar........................Haree anant..374

Oh Lord During the era of Karta the Lord created a manifestation
I(Pir Hassan Kabirdin) was that manifestation (as Gur
Brahma)
In the Treta Jug the manifestation was called
Veejeshthann
even that was my manifestation
Haree You are eternal...

Aashaajee Jug Dwaapur maanhe Veedur-vyaas kaheeyen
sobee ham-kun jaanno jee
Kal-jug maanhe ham-hi jaanno
sohee Rasul naam........................Haree anant..375

Oh Lord In the Dwaapur Jug the name of the manifestation of Gur
Brahma was Veedur-vyaas
Even He was our form
In the Kal-jug we are the manifestation of Gur Brahma
and it is the same light of the Messenger(Prophet
Muhammed)
Haree You are eternal...

http://www.ismaili.net/granths/part4.html

The above verses indicate that the Light of Piratan was prevalent through all ages. Veedur Vyaas was the manifestation of that Light as was Prophet Muhammad in Kaljug.

Is veedur Vyaas name of one person or they are two different personalities?

[ismaili103]

Is veedur Vyaas name of one person or they are two different personalities

Veedur vyas was one person, he was manifestation of Prophet Muhammad/Gur Bharama. He was Prophet at the time of Imam Krishna.

[shivaathervedi]

JIRE BHAI RE SERBANDH SHAH NE KAJEY LAAWIYA
SHAH ISLAM SHAH NI VAAR JI

Thanks!, below is the translation...

SEERBA(N)DH SHAAH NE KAAJE LAAVEEYAA
BY SAYYED IMAAM SHAH

jeere bhaaire seerba(n)dh shaahne kaaje laaveeyaa
sree islaamshaah nee vaar jee.......................1

O living brothers, he (Peer Hassan Kabeerdeen) brought the
Turban as a fulfilment of the wish of the Lord. It was in the
presence of the authority of Sree Islaamshaah.

jeere bhaaire seerba(n)dh hasanshaah ne aaleeyaa
taare dharam naa maram huaajee......................2

O living brothers, He (the Imam) returned Hassan Shah the Turban
(as a symbol of granting the authority for the upliftment of the
countless). At that moment all the mysteries of religion became apparent.

jeere bhaaire faddtaall vellaa maa(n) mottap aapee
mukho mukhe vachan kahaavejee.......................3

O living brothers, in the Fadtaa Velaa he was granted the authority, and from every mouth he took the promise (of loyalty).

jeere bhaaire sayyed imaamshaah ku pattaa deeyaa
te ja(m)pudeep maa(n)he aaveene betthaajee..........4

O living brothers, He gave Sayyed Imaam Shaah a strip (from the turban?), and who has come to the Indian Subcontinent where he is seated (or established).

jeere bhaaire tenne chak fa(n)dh vellaa maa(n)he rachnaa keedhee
te islaamshaah bhale aaveeyaajee....................5

O living brothers, He has established Himself in the period which is
sunk in the wheel of treachery. He is Sree Islaamshah who is welcome here.

jeere bhaaire ham seer shaahe maheraj keedhee
nur shaahaa naam bhannaayaa jee.....................6

O living brothers, upon my head the Lord has manifested His mercy in
a complete manner as He has taught me the name (concept) of the Manifest Light, the Imaam.

jeere bhaaire rachnaa ruddee kahee-e tamaaree
amraapuree dekhaaddee yaa jee.......................7

O living brothers, Your creation is to be regarded as perfect (or amiable).
You have shown it to be a paradise (when seen with correct perspective).

jeere bhaaire bhamar pala(n)g upar sej beechhaai
us par ham jai betthaajee...........................8

O living brothers, upon the bedstead of the soul, a soft bed was spread.
There upon I went and sat.

jeere bhaaire nur shaahaa kahek maa(n)he betthaa
najaraa najar dekhaaddeeyaa jee.....................9

O living brothers, the Light of Imamat is seated (manifest) in Kahek.
He showed (revealed to) me the mysteries through the entire vision
(inner and outer).

jeere bhaaire sayyed imaamshaah kaheene sunnaaveeyaa
haidde harakh na maahejee..........................10

O living brothers, Sayyed Imaamshah has said and announced this
fact which gives such happiness that cannot be contained in the heart.

jeere bhaaire aana(n)d tab atee ghannaa huaa
reekheesaro saa(m)bhallo geenaan jee...............11

O living brothers, after that (the Vision), there was great joy and bliss.
O believers listen to the "Geenaans" (so that you may attain this exalted state).

Vela means time(any time) and jug means extended time in centuries or millenniums. In these above parts two terminologies are used. These are Fhartar vela and Chuk Fandha vela. What is difference in these two? There are also other terms used in ginans like noor vela and vikhri vela. Are these vela(veras) inter connected with each other.
In first 2/3 parts, Syed Imam Shah has mentioned pir Hasan Shah and in rest of parts he is talking about himself. Part 4 is important, where he mentions that Imam gave him PATTA (means patra, letter, permission, authority) to propagate in jumpu dweep. Is this a indicator that he was a pir?
or here PATTA means spiritual knowledge?