Recycling of souls.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:16 pm

Ya Ali madad.
To all those 7 billion who were children earlier were told c
stories of Santa Claus,Humpty Dumpty ,Cinderella,etc.
They were in stories n not real entities.
When a child come to secondary school he come to know those prose n poems were fantasy to mostly some good or warning messages.
THERE IN NO ENTITY AS ONCE. IBLEES on earth,
Never the less every fallen or cursed soul can be called or compared to Iblees.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:29 am

nuseri wrote:Ya Ali madad.
To all those 7 billion who were children earlier were told c
stories of Santa Claus,Humpty Dumpty ,Cinderella,etc.
They were in stories n not real entities.
When a child come to secondary school he come to know those prose n poems were fantasy to mostly some good or warning messages.
THERE IN NO ENTITY AS ONCE. IBLEES on earth,
Never the less every fallen or cursed soul can be called or compared to Iblees.

In this day an age not everyone is in secondary school or at university (like yourself!). There will always be those at the nursery, primary schools, hence we need to discuss these matters so that they evolve to secondary and university levels.

If everyone was at a university level there would not be that much conflict and ignorance in the world.

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:07 pm

What is definition of life?

tret · Post by **tret** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:17 am

Admin wrote:
junglikhan4 wrote: You are shying to answer me. My question is about Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva,
Rama, Sita, Tara Rani, Raja Harish Chandra, Ghanpat bapa and so on, are these real entities, real characters or just myth. Are you comparing these characters with Iblees according to your previous post?
Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva are Divine attributes mentioned also in Islamic litterature with Arabic sounding names which may suit you well. For example if instead of calling him Brahma, I call him al-Khaliq, will that be sweeter to your ears? Surely since whatever has an Indian flavor, gives to some very heavy Diarrhea.

Have you seen Ghanpat in any Ginan? Why mix-up names from everywhere and anywhere to mislead people that Ghanpat and Harish Chandra are from the same background? They are not. HarisChandra is mentioned in our literature, to my knowledge, Ghanpat is not. Please prove me wrong and I will offer you as a gift a box of Imodium.

Then why not use the Islamic terms, since we are Ismaili Muslim, as opposed to hindi terms?

Regardless, the question of nuseri brother was about the concept of iblees as being a creature.

I believe everything that we in the entire universe is Allah's creation. If iblees is understood as a creature, then wouldn't it make Allah responsible for it? instead it has been narrated that iblees was one of the angels, who has fallen from the rank of angelic. Meaning at some point he wasn't devil. So, my understanding is it's the lack of good that makes evil.

Post by **Admin** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:29 am

tret wrote:
Then why not use the Islamic terms, since we are Ismaili Muslim, as opposed to hindi terms?

There are those who think that Islam can only be practiced in Arabic. Imam Aga Ali Shah said once that "We do not want of a God that only understand Arabic". In another Instance, he said those who shout "(it is written in) Arabic, Arabic" are the enemies of our house. Somehow lots of people of that kind hoover around. They believe whatever is in Arabic is true and whoever speaks Arabic is the embodiment of Islam!

Islam is a universal religion which, Humans on earth would practice in one of the human languages, including using gujrati or hindi. And the population of the other worlds, be they angels or aliens, would practice in their own language if they have one or in their feelings or whatever concept God has made available to them to express their Faith.

I personally feels that those who do not understands these basics are those who are increasingly becoming fanatics and easy prey of the extremists Muslims movements.

This is not a new trend. It has existed in history. We Batini call them the "Shariati".

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:39 am

tret wrote:I believe everything that we in the entire universe is Allah's creation. If iblees is understood as a creature, then wouldn't it make Allah responsible for it? instead it has been narrated that iblees was one of the angels, who has fallen from the rank of angelic. Meaning at some point he wasn't devil. So, my understanding is it's the lack of good that makes evil.

I am not particularly interested in Iblis but this is what MSMS says in his Memoirs:

"Islam acknowledges the existence of angels, of great souls who have developed themselves to the highest possible planes of the human soul and higher, and who are centres of the forces which are scattered throughout the Universe. Without going as far as Christianity, Islam recognizes the existence of evil spirits which seek by means of their secret suggestions to us to turn us from good, from that straight way traced by God's finger for the eternal happiness of the humblest as of the greatest-Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed."

http://www.ismaili.net/Source/0016b.html

In Ginan: Allah ek Khassam Sabbuka: http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22819

It is stated:

ejee jumale feerashte sujeedaa keeyaa, aadam sujeedaa leeyaa
ajaajeele farmaan na maanyaa, so lekhaa radaj keeyaa
......illaahee.......4

All the angels prostrated and Adam accepted their prostrations. Azazil(Iblis) did not obey or follow the Farmaans and therefore annulled all his earnings completely.

ejee ajaajeel feerashtaa buzarag kaheeye
ane budheeva(n)t kaheeye tesaa
chhatrees karodd keetaabaa paddeeyaa
pann bheetar bhed na paayaa..............illaahee............6

The angel Azazil is regarded as very honoured and is also considered to be very intelligent. He read and studied thirty six crore books but did not realise the essence of the interior (soul, heart).

So basically Iblis is the fallen angel due to arrogance

tret · Post by **tret** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:22 am

Admin wrote:
tret wrote:
Then why not use the Islamic terms, since we are Ismaili Muslim, as opposed to hindi terms?
There are those who think that Islam can only be practiced in Arabic. Imam Aga Ali Shah said once that "We do not want of a God that only understand Arabic". In another Instance, he said those who shout "(it is written in) Arabic, Arabic" are the enemies of our house. Somehow lots of people of that kind hoover around. They believe whatever is in Arabic is true and whoever speaks Arabic is the embodiment of Islam!

Islam is a universal religion which, Humans on earth would practice in one of the human languages, including using gujrati or hindi. And the population of the other worlds, be they angels or aliens, would practice in their own language if they have one or in their feelings or whatever concept God has made available to them to express their Faith.

I personally feels that those who do not understands these basics are those who are increasingly becoming fanatics and easy prey of the extremists Muslims movements.

This is not a new trend. It has existed in history. We Batini call them the "Shariati".

Language is fine, it's the concepts getting mixed up is dangerouse.

sameernoorani5 · Post by **sameernoorani5** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:12 pm

Imam Jafar Sadiq was asked; Was Adam's paradise one of the gardens of this world or one of those of hereafter?
Imam replied; It was one of the gardens of this world where sun and moon were rising. Had it been one of the gardens of hereafter, neither would Iblis have entered in it, nor would Adam have ever come out of it.
( Lughatul Hadith, Vol.1.)

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:58 am

sameernoorani5 wrote:Imam Jafar Sadiq was asked; Was Adam's paradise one of the gardens of this world or one of those of hereafter?
Imam replied; It was one of the gardens of this world where sun and moon were rising. Had it been one of the gardens of hereafter, neither would Iblis have entered in it, nor would Adam have ever come out of it.
( Lughatul Hadith, Vol.1.)

Interesting quote! Thanks for sharing

sameernoorani5 · Post by **sameernoorani5** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:17 pm

For quite some time I was thinking;
God made man in His image, obviously a man is not a monkey shaved. How about animals like elephant, cow, dog, donkey and so on; in whose image these animals were created?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:41 am

sameernoorani5 wrote:For quite some time I was thinking;
God made man in His image, obviously a man is not a monkey shaved. How about animals like elephant, cow, dog, donkey and so on; in whose image these animals were created?

You may want to go to the discussion about animals at:

pets
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 25&start=0

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:02 am

God made man in His image,

Do you think God has shape?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:18 am

agakhani wrote:[Do you think God has shape?

The statement means that God created man in His likeness. Man is potentially God.

sameernoorani5 · Post by **sameernoorani5** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:04 pm

I think matter is frozen soul and soul is dissolved matter. Am I correct?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:51 pm

sameernoorani5 wrote:I think matter is frozen soul and soul is dissolved matter. Am I correct?

I agree with the first part but I think the soul is the evaporated form of solid/liquid material aspect. It is more subtle.

MHI has said: The soul is created and given a physical form.

The soul nature is realized through 'burning' and purification.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:05 am

kmaherali wrote:
sameernoorani5 wrote:I think matter is frozen soul and soul is dissolved matter. Am I correct?
I agree with the first part but I think the soul is the evaporated form of solid/liquid material aspect. It is more subtle.

MHI has said: The soul is created and given a physical form.

The soul nature is realized through 'burning' and purification.

I had listen in a waez that Pir said " Jeevro Akashi" which means Soul is from Sky.

So its possible that soul is made from the same matter as Sky, like scientists confirm that sky is made from the matter but they also said that they still not know which kind of matter it is.

So Soul and Sky ( Black/ Dhandhukaar) can be made from the same matter, but its not Dark matter for sure, which is in space in abundance.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:33 am

There is a verse of Saloko Moto which states:

satgur kahere: jene kaleje baann laagaa neh tannaa
tenee ddhrashttee kem avare jaay
tenu pee(n)ddh chaale murt lokmaa(n)
tenee surtee aakaash jaay re....................16

The True Guide says: Whoever's liver has been pierced by the arrow of love, how can this person's vision go astray. This person's body will move in the physical plane(the earth), where as the consciousness will be in the heavens.

I interpret the verse to mean that a person in Divine love loses the awareness of the material plane and at all times he perceives the heavens or the soul nature. It depends on how much one is attached to the material world. If he/she is completely detached then he is in the soul awareness even in the midst of this worldly existence.

sameernoorani5 · Post by **sameernoorani5** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:34 pm

An Abstract Imagination.
The light of Lord absorbed the darkness ( Dhundhukar ) or black matter and turn it into a liquid foam. From that liquid He shaped the universe and put it into motion. Example, darkness of night is absorbed by the sun light and objects start getting clear and visible. Darkness and light both are subtle.
Actually things are not what they seem. Original copies are in eternity in God's main computer.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:59 pm

No imaginatory thinking is valuable when we have solid proof! and that proof is from ginans! about universal creation.
However this topic has been discussed before in different thread but for a quick reference I am quoting some ginanic versew for moe information please read ginans. Period.
Eji Sahebji e mukh mathi phin no goto kadhyo,
Ane tene didho anda (egg) no aakar.
Now look earth it is not 100% round, its top and bottom parts are squeezed like eggs!

sameernoorani5 · Post by **sameernoorani5** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:04 pm

agakhani wrote:No imaginatory thinking is valuable when we have solid proof! and that proof is from ginans! about universal creation.
However this topic has been discussed before in different thread but for a quick reference I am quoting some ginanic versew for moe information please read ginans. Period.
Eji Sahebji e mukh mathi phin no goto kadhyo,
Ane tene didho anda (egg) no aakar.
Now look earth it is not 100% round, its top and bottom parts are squeezed like eggs!

What is the meaning of " phin no goto "?

Post by **Admin** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:14 am

sameernoorani wrote:

What is the meaning of " phin no goto "?

I would translate it by a ball of foam or gas

I think it refers to the creation of universe not of the earth. The ginans says (as per my recollection) that the ball in the shape of an egg was unstable and this could explain the Big Bang theory on why this unstable egg exploded to form our universe.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:52 am

MUMAN CHEET-VENNEE (REMINDER TO BELIEVERS) - BY PEER SADARDEEN

to muneevar bhaaee aa paratham saamee jee paedaa keeaa,
e bhaaee jaare hataa te dha(n)dhukaar;
taare beejo te hato kaa(n)hee nahee(n),
ane ek hataa te niraakaar re......................................1

Brother believer, when the Lord first brought creation into being, there was darkness, o brother. Then there was nothing else, there was just the one formless being.

to muneevar bhaaee taare saamee jee-e te maa(n)he het dhareo,
ane sa(n)saar seerajeaa nu(n) aachaar;
taare mukh maa(n)he thee pheenn nu(n) gotto kaaddheo,
te maa(n)he thee keedho te ee(n)ddaa nu(n) aakaar re..............2

Brother believer, then the Lord bore love in His heart, and conceived the creation of the universe. Then from His mouth he took out a ball of foam, and from it He fashioned the form of an egg.

to muneevar bhaaee te ee(n)ddo shaahe upaaveo,
ane tene haath maa(n)he te raakheo kettaleek vaar;
tiaa(n) saamee jee te betthaa aha(n)kaar maa(n);
ane tiaa(n) ee(n)dda upare te dhareo peeaar re....................3

Brother believer, the Lord created the egg, and kept it on His hand for a long time. There the Lord sat in self-contemplation, and there He laid His love on the egg.

to muneevar bhaaee te ee(n)ddo jhulaave saamee jee apanna haath maa(n),
ane tenu(n) keedho bahu visataar;
taare saamee jee naa man maa(n)he emaj aaveeu(n),
je aa ee(n)dda maa(n)he thee te karu(n) utapatee apaar re.........4

Brother believer, the Lord rolled the egg on His hand, and made it expand greatly. Then it occurred to the mind of the Lord that He would make from this egg a boundless creation.

to muneevar bhaaee taare saamee jee-e te man maa(n)he veechaareeu(n),
je aa ee(n)ddaa maa(n)he thee te su(n) su(n) karu(n) aakaar;
taare saamee jee-e saat tabak jameen naa ttheraaveaa,
ane das aasamaan nu(n) te raakheo veechaar re.....................5

Brother believer, then the Lord pondered in His mind as to which forms He would create this egg. Then the Lord determined on the seven layers of the earth, and conceived the ten heavens.

to muneevar bhaaee taare ahu(n)kaar karataa saamee jee-e ee(n)ddo u(n)cho chaddaaveo,
te maa(n)he thee thiyaa te das aasamaan nu(n) aakaar;
aa tiyaa(n) thee ee(n)ddo neecho chaaleo,
te maa(n)he thee thiyaa saat tabak jameen naa(n) tennee vaar re...6

Brother believer, then the Lord in self-contemplation raised the egg high, and from it emerged the forms of the ten heavens. From there the egg went downwards, and from it the seven layers of the earth then emerged.

to muneevar bhaaee tiyaa(n) saamee jee-e potaa nee kudarat maa(n)he thee paedaa kareaa,
ane aa jimee aasamaan nu(n) aakaar;
taare saamee jee te phiree besee raheaa,
te kettalaa jug ekalaa niraakaar re...............................7

Brother believer, there the Lord through His own omnipotence created the forms of this earth and heaven. Then the Lord again remained seated for many ages, alone and formless.

to muneevar bhaaee taare saamee jee-e potaa naa nur maa(n)he thee upaaveaa,
ane saamee jee-e beejee te sirajee murat chaar;
aa tiyaa(n) ek pi(n)dd ek potaa tannu(n),
ane e paa(n)che-ee tan nu(n) ek te avataar re.....................8

Brother believer, then the Lord created from His light, and brought four other forms into being. There was one shape which was His own, and all those five forms were a single manifestation.

to muneevar bhaaee e chaar murat saamee jee-e sirajeaa,
tenaa juaa juaa naam dhareaa sirajann-haar;
aa te tame saa(n)bhalo muneevaro,
aa tenu(n) kahu(n) veechaar re....................................9

Brother believer, the Lord created those four forms, and the Creator gave them each separate names. Attend, o believers, and I shall give you an account of them.

to muneevar bhaaee aapannaa maathaa mubaarak nu(n) mahammad mustapha kareaa,
ane mawlaa alee te pote alee avataar;
aa seenaa mubaarak nee te hazarat bibi phaatamaa,
ane nur-chasham be tenaa hazarat emaam hasan va husen deel tthaar re...............................................................10

Brother believer, He made Muhammad Mustafa from His holy forehead, and the Lord Ali was Himself manifested as Ali. He created the blessed Lady Fatima from His holy breast, and the light of His two eyes were the blessed Imaams Hasan and Husain, who bring comfort to the heart.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:00 am

In the above Granth Moman Chitvenni by Pir Saddardin, Pur beautifully explained the concept of Big Bang.

Just like scientist now discovered that first it was a atom which converts into the size of Ball in a second and then that ball converts into the size of earth and then into the big infinite ball, then it burst and billions of planets, asteroids, stars ,gasses and matter formed.

Pir explained the same concept in above Granth, Ball of foam created, then it revoled and expand and then creation happens.

sameernoorani5 · Post by **sameernoorani5** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:24 pm

Thanks for input;
But!
EJI NOOREY TE KHAAK NIPAYA JI
WANN THUMBEY RACHIO AASMAN JI
My question;
Is there any resemblance in Noor and spiritual Foam?

sameernoorani5 · Post by **sameernoorani5** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:19 pm

kmaherali wrote:MUMAN CHEET-VENNEE (REMINDER TO BELIEVERS) - BY PEER SADARDEEN

to muneevar bhaaee aa paratham saamee jee paedaa keeaa,
e bhaaee jaare hataa te dha(n)dhukaar;
taare beejo te hato kaa(n)hee nahee(n),
ane ek hataa te niraakaar re......................................1

Brother believer, when the Lord first brought creation into being, there was darkness, o brother. Then there was nothing else, there was just the one formless being.

to muneevar bhaaee taare saamee jee-e te maa(n)he het dhareo,
ane sa(n)saar seerajeaa nu(n) aachaar;
taare mukh maa(n)he thee pheenn nu(n) gotto kaaddheo,
te maa(n)he thee keedho te ee(n)ddaa nu(n) aakaar re..............2

Brother believer, then the Lord bore love in His heart, and conceived the creation of the universe. Then from His mouth he took out a ball of foam, and from it He fashioned the form of an egg.

to muneevar bhaaee te ee(n)ddo shaahe upaaveo,
ane tene haath maa(n)he te raakheo kettaleek vaar;
tiaa(n) saamee jee te betthaa aha(n)kaar maa(n);
ane tiaa(n) ee(n)dda upare te dhareo peeaar re....................3

Brother believer, the Lord created the egg, and kept it on His hand for a long time. There the Lord sat in self-contemplation, and there He laid His love on the egg.

to muneevar bhaaee te ee(n)ddo jhulaave saamee jee apanna haath maa(n),
ane tenu(n) keedho bahu visataar;
taare saamee jee naa man maa(n)he emaj aaveeu(n),
je aa ee(n)dda maa(n)he thee te karu(n) utapatee apaar re.........4

Brother believer, the Lord rolled the egg on His hand, and made it expand greatly. Then it occurred to the mind of the Lord that He would make from this egg a boundless creation.

to muneevar bhaaee taare saamee jee-e te man maa(n)he veechaareeu(n),
je aa ee(n)ddaa maa(n)he thee te su(n) su(n) karu(n) aakaar;
taare saamee jee-e saat tabak jameen naa ttheraaveaa,
ane das aasamaan nu(n) te raakheo veechaar re.....................5

Brother believer, then the Lord pondered in His mind as to which forms He would create this egg. Then the Lord determined on the seven layers of the earth, and conceived the ten heavens.

to muneevar bhaaee taare ahu(n)kaar karataa saamee jee-e ee(n)ddo u(n)cho chaddaaveo,
te maa(n)he thee thiyaa te das aasamaan nu(n) aakaar;
aa tiyaa(n) thee ee(n)ddo neecho chaaleo,
te maa(n)he thee thiyaa saat tabak jameen naa(n) tennee vaar re...6

Brother believer, then the Lord in self-contemplation raised the egg high, and from it emerged the forms of the ten heavens. From there the egg went downwards, and from it the seven layers of the earth then emerged.

to muneevar bhaaee tiyaa(n) saamee jee-e potaa nee kudarat maa(n)he thee paedaa kareaa,
ane aa jimee aasamaan nu(n) aakaar;
taare saamee jee te phiree besee raheaa,
te kettalaa jug ekalaa niraakaar re...............................7

Brother believer, there the Lord through His own omnipotence created the forms of this earth and heaven. Then the Lord again remained seated for many ages, alone and formless.

to muneevar bhaaee taare saamee jee-e potaa naa nur maa(n)he thee upaaveaa,
ane saamee jee-e beejee te sirajee murat chaar;
aa tiyaa(n) ek pi(n)dd ek potaa tannu(n),
ane e paa(n)che-ee tan nu(n) ek te avataar re.....................8

Brother believer, then the Lord created from His light, and brought four other forms into being. There was one shape which was His own, and all those five forms were a single manifestation.

to muneevar bhaaee e chaar murat saamee jee-e sirajeaa,
tenaa juaa juaa naam dhareaa sirajann-haar;
aa te tame saa(n)bhalo muneevaro,
aa tenu(n) kahu(n) veechaar re....................................9

Brother believer, the Lord created those four forms, and the Creator gave them each separate names. Attend, o believers, and I shall give you an account of them.

to muneevar bhaaee aapannaa maathaa mubaarak nu(n) mahammad mustapha kareaa,
ane mawlaa alee te pote alee avataar;
aa seenaa mubaarak nee te hazarat bibi phaatamaa,
ane nur-chasham be tenaa hazarat emaam hasan va husen deel tthaar re...............................................................10

Brother believer, He made Muhammad Mustafa from His holy forehead, and the Lord Ali was Himself manifested as Ali. He created the blessed Lady Fatima from His holy breast, and the light of His two eyes were the blessed Imaams Hasan and Husain, who bring comfort to the heart.

The above version of creation I heard in a Hindu satsung except the Prophet Muhammad and Punjtan Pak names. I have few questions in mind to understand this creation theory for myself and for other readers.

In part 1; there was darkness and nothing just one formless being. If God was without form and shape, then how come He made Adam in His image?

In part 2; the words heart and mouth are used, it shows He was in human form.

In part 3; again the word hand is used and on whom was He self contemplating?

In part 4; then it occurred in the mind Lord to make a boundless creation.
So creation did not occurred instantly but took time. Question is then what about KUN FAYAKUN?

In part 5; what are the names of 10 heavens?

In part 6; why God needed self contemplation to raise the Egg high, He just had to order BE. Why just 10 heavens and 7 layers of earth. What about billions of stars, milky ways and other heavenly bodies.

In part 7; then the lord seated again for many ages, alone and formless.
Why He waited for many ages, but He was not alone beside Him was an expanded large Egg!

In part 8 and 9; then Lord created from His light, and brought 4 other forms into being. What were those 4 forms?

In part 10; He made holy Muhammad Mustafa from His forehead.
Sounds like Brahama made Brahman out of His forehead in Hindu mythology.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:53 am

sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 1; there was darkness and nothing just one formless being. If God was without form and shape, then how come He made Adam in His image?.

Because according to a hadith "God said: I was a hidden treasure and wished to be known, so I created the world." Hence to know him was the purpose of creation, he did not create in vain. Since creation was special He had to relate to it and hence he created man as a crown of His creation through whom he could be known and hence fulfil the purpose of creation. Man by fully realizing God becomes God hence he is the image of God.

sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 2; the words heart and mouth are used, it shows He was in human form..

Ginans are allegorical and cannot be considered in a literal sense. The use of his own mouth can be symbolic of creation's substance originating from Himself.

sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 3; again the word hand is used and on whom was He self contemplating? .

Again use of hands can be symbolic of the precious nature of creation and he considered it with care. The Lord contemplating can signify that a great deal of thought went into creation. That it did not happen in a careless manner.

sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 4; then it occurred in the mind Lord to make a boundless creation.
So creation did not occurred instantly but took time. Question is then what about KUN FAYAKUN?.

It does not necessarily imply that creation happened at a given moment. It could also mean that creation is continuous as per MSMS in his Memoirs, hence KUN FAYAKUN is valid.

sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 5; what are the names of 10 heavens?.

The number ten is just symbolic of the fact that there are many heavens , it is just not one, implying there are many stages of spiritual growth.

sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 6; why God needed self contemplation to raise the Egg high, He just had to order BE. Why just 10 heavens and 7 layers of earth. What about billions of stars, milky ways and other heavenly bodies..

Raising high just implies the lofty nature of creation and contemplation is explained earlier. Heavens means spiritual creations which includes astral planets and stars as well. The earth does not mean earth as we know it but includes the entire physical creation including stars and milky ways.

sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 7; then the lord seated again for many ages, alone and formless.
Why He waited for many ages, but He was not alone beside Him was an expanded large Egg!.

Seating again could imply further thought indicating the serious nature and purpose behind creation. The egg came forth from Himself and therefore it is part of Him!

sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 8 and 9; then Lord created from His light, and brought 4 other forms into being. What were those 4 forms?.

The forms of Muhammad, Fatimah, Hasan and Husein. The fifth being Himself - Aly.

sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 10; He made holy Muhammad Mustafa from His forehead.
Sounds like Brahama made Brahman out of His forehead in Hindu mythology.

Possible...

sameernoorani5 · Post by **sameernoorani5** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:07 pm

sameernoorani5 wrote:Thanks for input;
But!
EJI NOOREY TE KHAAK NIPAYA JI
WANN THUMBEY RACHIO AASMAN JI
My question;
Is there any resemblance in Noor and spiritual Foam?

Still waiting answer for this post!

sameernoorani5 · Post by **sameernoorani5** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:18 pm

kmaherali wrote:
sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 1; there was darkness and nothing just one formless being. If God was without form and shape, then how come He made Adam in His image?.
Because according to a hadith "God said: I was a hidden treasure and wished to be known, so I created the world." Hence to know him was the purpose of creation, he did not create in vain. Since creation was special He had to relate to it and hence he created man as a crown of His creation through whom he could be known and hence fulfil the purpose of creation. Man by fully realizing God becomes God hence he is the image of God.
sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 2; the words heart and mouth are used, it shows He was in human form..
Ginans are allegorical and cannot be considered in a literal sense. The use of his own mouth can be symbolic of creation's substance originating from Himself.
sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 3; again the word hand is used and on whom was He self contemplating? .
Again use of hands can be symbolic of the precious nature of creation and he considered it with care. The Lord contemplating can signify that a great deal of thought went into creation. That it did not happen in a careless manner.
sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 4; then it occurred in the mind Lord to make a boundless creation.
So creation did not occurred instantly but took time. Question is then what about KUN FAYAKUN?.
It does not necessarily imply that creation happened at a given moment. It could also mean that creation is continuous as per MSMS in his Memoirs, hence KUN FAYAKUN is valid.
sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 5; what are the names of 10 heavens?.
The number ten is just symbolic of the fact that there are many heavens , it is just not one, implying there are many stages of spiritual growth.
sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 6; why God needed self contemplation to raise the Egg high, He just had to order BE. Why just 10 heavens and 7 layers of earth. What about billions of stars, milky ways and other heavenly bodies..
Raising high just implies the lofty nature of creation and contemplation is explained earlier. Heavens means spiritual creations which includes astral planets and stars as well. The earth does not mean earth as we know it but includes the entire physical creation including stars and milky ways.
sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 7; then the lord seated again for many ages, alone and formless.
Why He waited for many ages, but He was not alone beside Him was an expanded large Egg!.
Seating again could imply further thought indicating the serious nature and purpose behind creation. The egg came forth from Himself and therefore it is part of Him!
sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 8 and 9; then Lord created from His light, and brought 4 other forms into being. What were those 4 forms?.
The forms of Muhammad, Fatimah, Hasan and Husein. The fifth being Himself - Aly.
sameernoorani5 wrote: In part 10; He made holy Muhammad Mustafa from His forehead.
Sounds like Brahama made Brahman out of His forehead in Hindu mythology.
Possible...

Appreciate your contemplation and answers. What I conclude from your answers is that God thinks, plans, contemplates, takes time to think and implement. From foam to egg to gradual implementation of universe according to His experiments, this does not fit with Quranic principle KUN FAYAKUN. Man is a thinking machine, does this applies to God?

Post by **Admin** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:00 pm

Actually the concept of time as perceived by us and the Spiritual concepts are very distant so there is no contradiction at all.

In term of God, everything is created, existing and destroyed within himself without time even remotely intervening. there is no before and after for God.

But seen from our human eyes and brain it becomes important to explain to us from our limitations. All the holy books follow this pattern, they talk in term of human understanding, keeping into account the time and place where the Message is revealed..

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:22 am

The concept of KUN FAYAKUN is there, God also said that he created earth in Six Days, so where is Kun Fayakun? Basically if we elaborate it, kun fayakun means spontaneously or Suddenly.

We all know that a blink of eye near God is equal to 100 earth years, so 6 days basically could be "6 x 24 hours x 60 mins x 60 sec x 100 years = 5184000" it means it take 5.1 million years to form earth, thats my understaning. Now think if only earth take millions of years so how many years Universe take? It could be billions? Thats what Pir said in above Granth, God revolve foam egg( pre big bang atomic ball) for billions of years.