Reincarnation in Islam

[kmaherali]

When I asked question, " Where in Quran is mentioned 'LAKH CHORASI NA PHERA' from 103, AK, KM or yourself,you promptly and deliberately deleted all my postings.

If you read the whole thread, there is a Farman of MSMS mentioning Lakh Chorasi. Isn't that sufficient for you? Do you have to match everything that the Imam mentions with the Qur'an? Does the Qur'an mention tourism, does it mention computers, does it mention atomic age, does it mention space age, does it mention civil society, does it mention university?

For Ismailis, the Farmans are the tafsir of the Qur'an. We do not need to match every idea mentioned in the Farmans with the Qur'an.

If the Qur'an says night and if the Imam interprets it as day, then that would be the correct interpretation for Ismailis.

[ismaili103]

Where in Quran is mentioned 'LAKH CHORASI NA PHERA

Yes is not mentioned in Quran, because Quran is not in its real form in todays era, there are issues in Quran like contradiction, incomplete etc. we had tell you this in past. And according to Imam Sultan Mohd Shah farman Quran is changed and not in its original form so even if Lakh chorasi is not mentioned in Quran, I do believe in lakh Chorasi because its mentioned in Ginan.

There are many verses on reincarnation in Quran which Karim bhai already mentioned.

There are hundred of verses on reincarnation and lakh chorasi in Ginans, and as an Ismaili we have to accept it.

Imam Sultan mohd shah accepts the concept on reincarnation and lakh chorasi in his farmans.

I had heard one of the farman of Hazir Imam in baitul khayal majlis....in which Imam said..

"Aap ki Zindagio mai" ......tell me why Imam said Zindagio..instead of Zindagi.

[dawlatshahchitrali]

When I asked question, " Where in Quran is mentioned 'LAKH CHORASI NA PHERA' from 103, AK, KM or yourself,you promptly and deliberately deleted all my postings.

If you read the whole thread, there is a Farman of MSMS mentioning Lakh Chorasi. Isn't that sufficient for you? Do you have to match everything that the Imam mentions with the Qur'an? Does the Qur'an mention tourism, does it mention computers, does it mention atomic age, does it mention space age, does it mention civil society, does it mention university?

For Ismailis, the Farmans are the tafsir of the Qur'an. We do not need to match every idea mentioned in the Farmans with the Qur'an.

If the Qur'an says night and if the Imam interprets it as day, then that would be the correct interpretation for Ismailis.

Because you quoted Quranic Ayats that's why I asked you question from Quran.

[dawlatshahchitrali]

Where in Quran is mentioned 'LAKH CHORASI NA PHERA

Yes is not mentioned in Quran, because Quran is not in its real form in todays era, there are issues in Quran like contradiction, incomplete etc. we had tell you this in past. And according to Imam Sultan Mohd Shah farman Quran is changed and not in its original form so even if Lakh chorasi is not mentioned in Quran, I do believe in lakh Chorasi because its mentioned in Ginan.

There are many verses on reincarnation in Quran which Karim bhai already mentioned.

There are hundred of verses on reincarnation and lakh chorasi in Ginans, and as an Ismaili we have to accept it.

Imam Sultan mohd shah accepts the concept on reincarnation and lakh chorasi in his farmans.

I had heard one of the farman of Hazir Imam in baitul khayal majlis....in which Imam said..

"Aap ki Zindagio mai" ......tell me why Imam said Zindagio..instead of Zindagi.

I believe in Hazar Imam and I shall be through Insha Allah in first attempt.
If you people want LAKH CHORASI, THAT IS UP TO YOU.

[kmaherali]

Because you quoted Quranic Ayats that's why I asked you question from Quran.

I quoted the Qur'an because the question was asked by a non-Ismaili.

I believe in Hazar Imam and I shall be through Insha Allah in first attempt.
If you people want LAKH CHORASI, THAT IS UP TO YOU.

Nobody would want to come back having recognised the Imam! It is the worst option...

[ismaili103]

I believe in Hazar Imam and I shall be through Insha Allah in first attempt.
If you people want LAKH CHORASI, THAT IS UP TO YOU.

Don't worry, you are in Ismaili faith because you had already passed lakh chorasi. Be loyal with your faith if you don't want LAKH CHORASI again.

BTW there are 52 eligibility to cross that border in first attempt. Read bawan ghati by Pir Sadardin to know are you eligible to pass through in first attempt which I doubt. If you are eligible than congrats.

[dawlatshahchitrali]

When I asked question, " Where in Quran is mentioned 'LAKH CHORASI NA PHERA' from 103, AK, KM or yourself,you promptly and deliberately deleted all my postings.

If you read the whole thread, there is a Farman of MSMS mentioning Lakh Chorasi. Isn't that sufficient for you? Do you have to match everything that the Imam mentions with the Qur'an? Does the Qur'an mention tourism, does it mention computers, does it mention atomic age, does it mention space age, does it mention civil society, does it mention university?

For Ismailis, the Farmans are the tafsir of the Qur'an. We do not need to match every idea mentioned in the Farmans with the Qur'an.

If the Qur'an says night and if the Imam interprets it as day, then that would be the correct interpretation for Ismailis.

It is not the question of matching every thing with Quran or Farman.
Is LAKH CHORASI PHERA, part of Ismaili faith. As I know neither Arab Ismailis nor Central Asian Ismailis or Chinese Ismailis believe in this doctrine.

[Admin]

What such or such regional Ismailis believe in is not the crux of the matter. What Imam has said about Lakh Chorasi is the Ismaili Doctrine.

To believe or not is left to individuals which may for regional, geographical, political, historical, family reason choose not to believe or accept it. No compulsion in Faith.

However it is a fact that the doctrine of some Ismailis communities has evolved in the absence of Imam's guidance and the doctrines of some Ismailis communities have evolved in the presence of Imam's guidance for whatever reasons.

[kmaherali]

It is not the question of matching every thing with Quran or Farman.
Is LAKH CHORASI PHERA, part of Ismaili faith. As I know neither Arab Ismailis nor Central Asian Ismailis or Chinese Ismailis believe in this doctrine.

Lakh Chorasi is stated in the Farman which is mentioned in this thread. The Farmans are appilcable to all murids irrespective of the background. It could be that some sections of the Jamat are not aware due to lack of contact but the doctrine is universal within the Jamat.

In the very first page of this thread there is a poem of Rumi from Mathnavi and from Al-hallaj (from Arabic tradition). Mathnavi is read by Ismailis of Persian tradition and indeed all Ismailis. Mowlana Sultan muhammad Shah has also quoted this poem about rebirth from Rumi in his Farman. There is another poem of Rumi which states:

"For ages you have come and gone
courting this delusion.
For ages you have run from the pain
and forfeited the ecstasy.
So come, return to the root of the root
of your own soul."

Source:
http://www.goodreads.com/ebooks/downloa ... ?doc=19503

[agakhani_1]

As I know neither Arab Ismailis nor Central Asian Ismailis or Chinese Ismailis believe in this doctrine.

You are always trying to prove that ginans are not real so, does the lakh chorasi cycles and ginan's other saying !!

there are many other religions peoples besides Ismailis also believes in lives after deaths !!

Off course there are many farmans of various imams which directly indicates about life after death.[/b] if you have faith on imam's farmans as you had boasted many times before in past then you must have to believes lakh chorasi cycles also!. and that is the bottom line.

[ismaili103]

As I know neither Arab Ismailis nor Central Asian Ismailis or Chinese Ismailis believe in this doctrine.

And how can you know that, do you meet each and every central asian Ismailis who are living in the area spreading over 4 million sq km., do you meet each and every Arab Ismailis who are living in Syria, Saudi, etc and do you meet each and every Chinese Ismailis who are supposed to be millions according to the one waez of late abu ali. Definitely you'r not. And its impossible for a human.

BTW my fathers friend in karachi is from Shimshal Pamir, and he believes in Ali Allah, Reincarnation, etc. and you know what he never read Ginans, he always tell he has good knowledge on Quran, and he tells he has faith on Ali Allah which he learned from Qasidas of dais specially Pir Nasir Khusro.

[dawlatshahchitrali]

As I know neither Arab Ismailis nor Central Asian Ismailis or Chinese Ismailis believe in this doctrine.

And how can you know that, do you meet each and every central asian Ismailis who are living in the area spreading over 4 million sq km., do you meet each and every Arab Ismailis who are living in Syria, Saudi, etc and do you meet each and every Chinese Ismailis who are supposed to be millions according to the one waez of late abu ali. Definitely you'r not. And its impossible for a human.

BTW my fathers friend in karachi is from Shimshal Pamir, and he believes in Ali Allah, Reincarnation, etc. and you know what he never read Ginans, he always tell he has good knowledge on Quran, and he tells he has faith on Ali Allah which he learned from Qasidas of dais specially Pir Nasir Khusro.

Obviously I can not approach to each and every Central Asian or Chinese Ismaili but I did talk to mainly youths of these areas living in Karachi. I have many youth friends from Ghizar, Shimshal, Gilgit, Hyderabad of Hunza area.
They said, they believe Imam as noor of Allah and not Allah. It is true many of our senior Ismailis say Ali Allah and personally I do not mind, it is their Iman. My point has been that what is the official view of ITREB ON THIS SUBJECT. They clearly said that Imam is not God and we do not advocate this doctrine according to guidance.You have mentioned some qasida of Seyyidna
Nasir Khusraw. But Nasir Khusraw in his work" Knowledge and Liberation"
refers to a group as " Meemya and Aineeya" these names derived from the Persian letters Meem for Muhammad and Ain for Ali. These groups considered
Muhammad or Ali to be God. Nasir very harshly refuted their claims.

[ismaili103]

As I know neither Arab Ismailis nor Central Asian Ismailis or Chinese Ismailis believe in this doctrine.

And how can you know that, do you meet each and every central asian Ismailis who are living in the area spreading over 4 million sq km., do you meet each and every Arab Ismailis who are living in Syria, Saudi, etc and do you meet each and every Chinese Ismailis who are supposed to be millions according to the one waez of late abu ali. Definitely you'r not. And its impossible for a human.

BTW my fathers friend in karachi is from Shimshal Pamir, and he believes in Ali Allah, Reincarnation, etc. and you know what he never read Ginans, he always tell he has good knowledge on Quran, and he tells he has faith on Ali Allah which he learned from Qasidas of dais specially Pir Nasir Khusro.

Obviously I can not approach to each and every Central Asian or Chinese Ismaili but I did talk to mainly youths of these areas living in Karachi. I have many youth friends from Ghizar, Shimshal, Gilgit, Hyderabad of Hunza area.
They said, they believe Imam as noor of Allah and not Allah. It is true many of our senior Ismailis say Ali Allah and personally I do not mind, it is their Iman. My point has been that what is the official view of ITREB ON THIS SUBJECT. They clearly said that Imam is not God and we do not advocate this doctrine according to guidance.You have mentioned some qasida of Seyyidna
Nasir Khusraw. But Nasir Khusraw in his work" Knowledge and Liberation"
refers to a group as " Meemya and Aineeya" these names derived from the Persian letters Meem for Muhammad and Ain for Ali. These groups considered
Muhammad or Ali to be God. Nasir very harshly refuted their claims.

That Nasir had already recognized Imam of the time, and he get united with Ali and now Nasir is none other than Ali or Allah.

ITREB says Ali is not Allah,
Imam and Pir says Ali is Allah,

As an Ismail we don't care what ITREB say but we focus on what Imam says.

Now don't ask me your old question, ITREB is the institution of Imam, and they appoint by Imam. I have same answer for that.

[Admin]

We have to believe what the Imam tells us.

the Institutions are manned by people, some are good, some are ignorant, some even change what the Imam says, they even go to the extent of saying that they change the Farmans to help the Imam. Why bother? Our faith is based first and foremost on our recognition of the Imam of the Time, not on obeying blindly people populating the Institutions.

[mazharshah]

There is a confusion in doctrine of " lakh chowrasi ". First is it lakh chowrasi or chowrasi lakh? Secondly, did a person passed lakh chowrasi phera and then become a human being or he was born as a human being and then because of his bad deeds and actions he had to go through lakh chowrasi ka chakar?

[ismaili103]

There is a confusion in doctrine of " lakh chowrasi ". First is it lakh chowrasi or chowrasi lakh? Secondly, did a person passed lakh chowrasi phera and then become a human being or he was born as a human being and then because of his bad deeds and actions he had to go through lakh chowrasi ka chakar?

Everything is clear and transparent as water in Ginans, these kinds of question arise because of ignorance. You only ask question without searching in Ginans.

Pir clearly said that If you did not follow the right path THEN you will go through the lakh chorasi phera AGAIN.

After gone through the 84 lakh evolution in different organism, we get human birth and after doing good deeds in human birth we get birth as always muslim and then as an Ismail. We get 7 chances in ismailism and if we fail to recognize Imam, then we would go through lakh chorasi.

But I know....tumhe kuch samajh nai ayega..because of your ignorance towards Ginans.

[mazharshah]

And how can you know that, do you meet each and every central asian Ismailis who are living in the area spreading over 4 million sq km., do you meet each and every Arab Ismailis who are living in Syria, Saudi, etc and do you meet each and every Chinese Ismailis who are supposed to be millions according to the one waez of late abu ali. Definitely you'r not. And its impossible for a human.

BTW my fathers friend in karachi is from Shimshal Pamir, and he believes in Ali Allah, Reincarnation, etc. and you know what he never read Ginans, he always tell he has good knowledge on Quran, and he tells he has faith on Ali Allah which he learned from Qasidas of dais specially Pir Nasir Khusro.

Obviously I can not approach to each and every Central Asian or Chinese Ismaili but I did talk to mainly youths of these areas living in Karachi. I have many youth friends from Ghizar, Shimshal, Gilgit, Hyderabad of Hunza area.
They said, they believe Imam as noor of Allah and not Allah. It is true many of our senior Ismailis say Ali Allah and personally I do not mind, it is their Iman. My point has been that what is the official view of ITREB ON THIS SUBJECT. They clearly said that Imam is not God and we do not advocate this doctrine according to guidance.You have mentioned some qasida of Seyyidna
Nasir Khusraw. But Nasir Khusraw in his work" Knowledge and Liberation"
refers to a group as " Meemya and Aineeya" these names derived from the Persian letters Meem for Muhammad and Ain for Ali. These groups considered
Muhammad or Ali to be God. Nasir very harshly refuted their claims.

That Nasir had already recognized Imam of the time, and he get united with Ali and now Nasir is none other than Ali or Allah.

ITREB says Ali is not Allah,
Imam and Pir says Ali is Allah,

As an Ismail we don't care what ITREB say but we focus on what Imam says.

Now don't ask me your old question, ITREB is the institution of Imam, and they appoint by Imam. I have same answer for that.

And this is the standard of your knowledge!!
Nasir never claimed to be Ali or Allah. Please stop posting wrong information. Mention the name of book and page #.
My Hazar Imam never claim to be God. I do not know about yours, it is up to you.
Imam has said respect my institutions. Obviously institutions are run by leaders appointed by Imam of the time. If you curse them or stone them again that is up to you and your like minded. Obey Farman and Hidayat of Imam of the time that is my simple message.

[ismaili103]

And this is the standard of your knowledge!!
Nasir never claimed to be Ali or Allah. Please stop posting wrong information. Mention the name of book and page #.
My Hazar Imam never claim to be God. I do not know about yours, it is up to you.
Imam has said respect my institutions. Obviously institutions are run by leaders appointed by Imam of the time. If you curse them or stone them again that is up to you and your like minded. Obey Farman and Hidayat of Imam of the time that is my simple message.

Those who attain Asal ma Wasil had never claim it, there actions shows everything. According to farman of Imam sultan Mohd shah, Nasir khusro get united with Imam and hence he became Allah. Thats it.

I did not know who is your Imam, but go to your people in the mountains and meet Ismailies there and ask them who is Imam, they will only say Imam is Allah. And they are not khoja or momna and they did not read Ginans.

My Imam had many times said that I am Allah.

As a Krishna avatar, he said I am creator of the universe.

In the Avatar of Mowla Ali he said, I am the most high, I am the first , I am the last, I am the creator etc.

Imam Hakim said I am 10th manifestation of God.

Imam Alishah, Imam sultan Mohd shah clearly said I am Allah in there farmans.

And Mowlana Hazir Imam indirectly said He is Allah, and Why he said indirectly because majority of Ismailies nowadays have no iman on Ali Allah. Look at yourself,
tum ne to apne baap dadaoo ki saari mehnat pr pani pher dala. I know your reputation in chicago. Your reputation as Big Ginan Hater.

[agakhani_1]

My Imam had many times said that I am Allah.

As a Krishna avatar, he said I am creator of the universe.

In the Avatar of Mowla Ali he said, I am the most high, I am the first , I am the last, I am the creator etc.

Imam Hakim said I am 10th manifestation of God.

Imam Alishah, Imam sultan Mohd shah clearly said I am Allah in there farmans.

Due to situations and circumstances in Muslim world current MHI doesn't says that he is Ali Allah but that doesn't mean he isn't!
One small Ismaili murid asked current Imam do you Allah as my mom tell?
MHI replied with smile to him yes, I am! and your mom is right!
Once Ismaili who had no faith in Imam asked same question to SMS, in reply SMS asked him what do you think? he replied that as a ordinary men, SMS replied him, then I am an ordinary men for you, what your mom and your other family members think about me? that Ismaili replied that they think you are Allah! SMS smiled and answered him yes, they are also right! bottom line if you have faith on Imam as Ali Allah then he is Ali allah for you! and if you doesn't then he is an ordinary men ( Imam ).

[Admin]

REMINDER:

This thread is on Reincarnation. Not on Ali-Allah.

All post which are not on Reincarnation will be deleted from this thread. Please post in the appropriate Forum.

[mazharshah]

And this is the standard of your knowledge!!
Nasir never claimed to be Ali or Allah. Please stop posting wrong information. Mention the name of book and page #.
My Hazar Imam never claim to be God. I do not know about yours, it is up to you.
Imam has said respect my institutions. Obviously institutions are run by leaders appointed by Imam of the time. If you curse them or stone them again that is up to you and your like minded. Obey Farman and Hidayat of Imam of the time that is my simple message.

Those who attain Asal ma Wasil had never claim it, there actions shows everything. According to farman of Imam sultan Mohd shah, Nasir khusro get united with Imam and hence he became Allah. Thats it.

I did not know who is your Imam, but go to your people in the mountains and meet Ismailies there and ask them who is Imam, they will only say Imam is Allah. And they are not khoja or momna and they did not read Ginans.

My Imam had many times said that I am Allah.

As a Krishna avatar, he said I am creator of the universe.

In the Avatar of Mowla Ali he said, I am the most high, I am the first , I am the last, I am the creator etc.

Imam Hakim said I am 10th manifestation of God.

Imam Alishah, Imam sultan Mohd shah clearly said I am Allah in there farmans.

And Mowlana Hazir Imam indirectly said He is Allah, and Why he said indirectly because majority of Ismailies nowadays have no iman on Ali Allah. Look at yourself,
tum ne to apne baap dadaoo ki saari mehnat pr pani pher dala. I know your reputation in chicago. Your reputation as Big Ginan Hater.

Same rhetoric, no substance, no references and no proof.
My Imam is Shah Karim Al Hussaini. I obey his farmans.
Give reference of the claim by Imam Hakim bi Amrullah. Name of book and page number, I want to verify.
Farmans of 46,47, and 48 Imams are not allowed to be read in JK's either Pak, USA, Canada or London. Shoot question to ITREB or Aiglemont.
You do not have to worry about my reputation, I do not stay at one place for ever. I have other projects too.

[mazharshah]

My Imam had many times said that I am Allah.

As a Krishna avatar, he said I am creator of the universe.

In the Avatar of Mowla Ali he said, I am the most high, I am the first , I am the last, I am the creator etc.

Imam Hakim said I am 10th manifestation of God.

Imam Alishah, Imam sultan Mohd shah clearly said I am Allah in there farmans.

Due to situations and circumstances in Muslim world current MHI doesn't says that he is Ali Allah but that doesn't mean he isn't!
One small Ismaili murid asked current Imam do you Allah as my mom tell?
MHI replied with smile to him yes, I am! and your mom is right!
Once Ismaili who had no faith in Imam asked same question to SMS, in reply SMS asked him what do you think? he replied that as a ordinary men, SMS replied him, then I am an ordinary men for you, what your mom and your other family members think about me? that Ismaili replied that they think you are Allah! SMS smiled and answered him yes, they are also right! bottom line if you have faith on Imam as Ali Allah then he is Ali allah for you! and if you doesn't then he is an ordinary men ( Imam ).

Please learn to give proper references, name of book, magazine or periodical.
You wrote, "one small Ismaili murid asked current Imam----" where you heard this, in a waiz, or during discussion, or read in a book, or heard privately from Al waiz? I have proof of few Al waizeen who were expert in making stories. I don not blame them because they wanted to make Iman of jamaits strong. Without references or evidence any event should be considered false, we are living in 21st century.

[mazharshah]

Qadi Noaman in his book DUA'IM has mentioned following 7 pillars of Islam.
1. Willayat.
2. Taharat.
3. Salat
4. zakat.
5. Fasting in Ramadhan.
6. Hajj.
7. Jihad.

Alwaiz Abu Ali in his book Ismaili Tariqah page 62 has written; We Ismailis believe in,
1.The Unity of God.
2. The last day.
3. The books of Allah; Quran is the last book.
4. The prophets of Allah; Muhammad is the last Prophet.
5. The life after death.
6. The reward of good or evil.
7. The perpetual Divine Guidance; Imam e Zaman. And what ever the holy Quran has prohibited is forbidden.

No where in above statements the REINCARNATION is mentioned. Therefore
REINCARNATION IS NOT A PART OF ISMAILI FAITH.

World is going fast and will be faster in future. Can not invest extra time in LAKH CHOWRASI NA PHERA, BETTER BE OUT IN SINGLE PHERA.

[Admin]

It is very good to quote Abu Ali and Qadi Numan.

What about quoting the Imam.. Do you know that we, Ismailis, we believe more in what our Imam says than in what Qadi Numan and Abu Ali say?

And if Abu Ali is your reference, does he not quote that the Imam said about Lakh Chorasi Phera? Yes he does but you have remained selective in your understanding, hiding whatever contradicts you.

This is the gap in the intellectual tradition which other sects of Islams have.

Fortunately Ismailis are in the forefront of the intellectual tradition and being open in their mind, obeying and understanding the Farmans comes naturally to them, both from Faith and from Intellect.

[ismaili103]

My Imam is Shah Karim Al Hussaini. I obey his farmans.

So as mine, and you obey his farmans, I consider it as a joke of the year.

Farmans of 46,47, and 48 Imams are not allowed to be read in JK's either Pak, USA, Canada or London.

One thing you will never understand in your whole life till your last breath that Imam is only one and that is Noor. And that noor change his joma( bogy) in every era.

And yes in sunni masjid where you go every day, farmans of Ismaili Imams are not allowed, but in Ismaili JK every Wednesday, Imam sultan mohd shah's Farman recite in Pakistan, and almost everyday in morning JK.

Admin, Karim bhai, and many others billions of time placed the words of Imam Hakim.

BTW your mission to convert ismailis into sunni in this web is gone failed,

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad.
A creature born if in 1970 n as a coward, escapist believes in what is said n written after that date SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED any reference before that of ANY ANY HOLY BOOK or Any persons.
I many,may be even some of you say
Come over for dinner at my HOME
come over for dinner at my HOUSE.
come over for dinner at my PLACE.
Come over for dinner at my PAD.
any student with rational sense knows that
Home,house,place & pad meant here are the SAME .
In same every day BUK farmans read out.
MHI says with progress in ibadat one come closer
to him in one farman,come closer to Imam in other,come closer to Allah in another.& come closer to noor of Ali.
This is living word said DAILY from last 58 years.
It mean that the words,destiny and entity ME,IMAM,ALLAH,NOOR OF ALI is same.
A person who do not accept n understand is blind,A person who accept and try deeply know its meaning is blinkered.the person who has truly understood n accepted has eyes with vision.
Member who believe that this creature is an Ismali is blind,those who think it a cunning human being is blinkered,that is a devil to born as serpent in volcano may have vision.

[Admin]

This discussion is about reincarnation only. Not on Ali Allah or any other subject . Thank you.

Cette discussion est sur ​​la réincarnation , pas à propos de Ali Allah.

Ē'i ālōcanā śudhumātra punarajjībita samparkē. Nā ālī āllāha bā an'ya kōna biṣaẏa. Āpanākē dhan'yabāda.

Mjadala huu ni kuhusu reincarnation tu . Si juu ya Ali Allah au somo mwingine yeyote. asante.

ین بحث این است در مورد تنها تناسخ. نه در علی خدا یا هر موضوع دیگر . تشکر از شما.

[mazharshah]

Ya Ali madad.
A creature born if in 1970 n as a coward, escapist believes in what is said n written after that date SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED any reference before that of ANY ANY HOLY BOOK or Any persons.
I many,may be even some of you say
Come over for dinner at my HOME
come over for dinner at my HOUSE.
come over for dinner at my PLACE.
Come over for dinner at my PAD.
any student with rational sense knows that
Home,house,place & pad meant here are the SAME .
In same every day BUK farmans read out.
MHI says with progress in ibadat one come closer
to him in one farman,come closer to Imam in other,come closer to Allah in another.& come closer to noor of Ali.
This is living word said DAILY from last 58 years.
It mean that the words,destiny and entity ME,IMAM,ALLAH,NOOR OF ALI is same.
A person who do not accept n understand is blind,A person who accept and try deeply know its meaning is blinkered.the person who has truly understood n accepted has eyes with vision.
Member who believe that this creature is an Ismali is blind,those who think it a cunning human being is blinkered,that is a devil to born as serpent in volcano may have vision.

I laugh when you curse like an old woman.
Framan is," through noor of Ali, through noor of Imamat you will come closer to He who is above all else". Who is above all else, by your default definition
that is ALLAH. Pay attention to word 'through' in farman wise man.

[mazharshah]

My Imam is Shah Karim Al Hussaini. I obey his farmans.

So as mine, and you obey his farmans, I consider it as a joke of the year.

Farmans of 46,47, and 48 Imams are not allowed to be read in JK's either Pak, USA, Canada or London.

One thing you will never understand in your whole life till your last breath that Imam is only one and that is Noor. And that noor change his joma( bogy) in every era.

And yes in sunni masjid where you go every day, farmans of Ismaili Imams are not allowed, but in Ismaili JK every Wednesday, Imam sultan mohd shah's Farman recite in Pakistan, and almost everyday in morning JK.

Admin, Karim bhai, and many others billions of time placed the words of Imam Hakim.

BTW your mission to convert ismailis into sunni in this web is gone failed,

I am neither converter nor reformer. My mentor is Hazar Imam Shah Karim.
When you people have no proper answer, you start cursing like an old widow. I can count from 1-100 and not like you billions. Why are you hiding behind Admin. or Karim Bhai. I asked you question, Give me reference of the book and page #, I want to verify Imam Hakim's statement on DAS AVTARS.
Do not shy, write name of the book, name of writer and page #. If you don't have, say I don't know.

[Admin]

I asked you question, Give me reference of the book and page #, I want to verify Imam Hakim's statement on DAS AVTARS.
Do not shy, write name of the book, name of writer and page #. If you don't have, say I don't know.

The reference of Imam Hakim's declaration has been given to you: book title, author and page number. Yet you are playing blind. How many time do we have to give it again and again to you?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 738200f3c7