Das Avatar

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:50 pm

I'm trying to locate the Ginan Das Avatar, with it's meaning, can anyone oblige please

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:15 pm

[email protected] wrote:I'm trying to locate the Ginan Das Avatar, with it's meaning, can anyone oblige please

If you find it..please forward to me as well.

Thanks

Shams

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:28 pm

Are you finding the one of Pir Shams or Pir Sadardin or of Syed Imam Shah?

Post by **Admin** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:58 am

Late Dr Gulshan Khakee wrote her thesis at Harvard on the Das Avatar of Syed Imam Shah, she also wrote some articles I think on the Das Avatar of Pir Shams which is the shortest of the 3 Das Avatar. Pir Sadardin's Das Awatar was mentionned in the famous Khoja Case...

Admin

Post by **Admin** » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:28 am

The Thesis on Das Avatar of Sayyed Imam Shah by Gulshan Khakee is now at this link in PDF format

http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/29102

Post by **Admin** » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:14 am

Reading Global Islam Through Messianic Renewal in Dasavatar

Purohit, Teena

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/15491

mahebubchatur · Post by **mahebubchatur** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:18 am

Das Avtar The Tenth NAKLANKI Avtar
GINAN-E-SHARIFF: “DAS AVTAR,” BY PIR SADARDIN SAHEB

Sri Dash Mahe Sri Dash Mahe (n) Naklanki Rupe Ladho chhe Avtar; Shah
Mowla Murtaza Ali Rupe Naam Bhanaveaji ; Het Haqiquatne karne Samiji Tame Bhale
Bhale Avaterea; Heat sete Turie Shah Chadse Aswar, Bhagat Odharia, Asur sangarie,
Danav Darie, Gatiu Tarie, Asu Purie, Vacha parie, Sankh Chakar Lese Shah Haathe.
Sankh Chakar Lese Shah Hath,
Laine Farse Shah Pruthvi Mahe;
Have Pota Te Dase Avtar,
Parhareo Shah Girbha Vaas;
Shah Dese Rikhianne Raj,
Rikhiu Karse Avichal Raaj;
Rikhiaane Vaikunth Vas,
Pir Shohodev Kero Sam;
Partak Naklanki Naam.
Ho Mara Samiji Sri Das Mahe Maro Tun Sri Parmesara; Sri Dash Mahe
Naklanki Rupe Lidho Chhe Avtar, Sri Shah Mowla Murtaza Ali Rupe Naam Bhanaveaji,
Sri Mowla Murtaza Ali Te Sri Eslamshah, Sri Shah Mowla Murtaza Alini Mata To Bibi
Zuleikha, Pita To Hashme Abu Talib Wali, Gur To Nabi Muhammad Mustafa Rasul Salela
Alehe Wasalaam, Sakhti To Bibi Fatamat Zohora Rajiallahu Taala Anahu; Char Lakhne
Batris Sestra Shri Shah Mowla Murtaza Ali Rupe Naam Bhanavea Ji Allah Ji Allah, Char
Lakhne Batris Sahestra Aaj Kaljugno Parman Hua, Tare Athar Vedna Vara Vartea, Aaj
Kaljug Mahe Shahanu Ek Rup Varateo Ek Danav Shah Aape Sangarse Crodi Baresu Pir
50
Sadardin Tarea, Tene Gupth Panth Aradhea, Te To Sahi Amrapurino Vase Bhale Pamia Ji
Allah Ji Allah; Pir Sadardin Kahere Bhai Kahu (n) Das Avtar , Te Je Sarvene Sune. Tene
Ava Gamanana Fera Tale; Je Sambhle Das Avtar, Te Paam Moksha Mugat Didar; Je
sambhale Nar Ne Naar, Tene Avagaman Nahire Sonsar.
Je Sambhale Das Avtar,
Te Dame Moksh Mugat Didar;
Je Sambhale Nar Ne naar,
Tene Avagaman Nahire Sansar;
Jem Mugat Huare Pilaj,
Tene Aaleo Shah Avichal Raaj;
Shahe Aaleo Dhruvne Raaj,
Dhruv Kare Chhe Avichal Raaj;
Bandh Kapiare Pailaj,
Tene Aleo Shah Avichal Raaj;
Shah Dese Rikhianne Raaj
Rikhiyu Karshe Te Avichal Raaj;
Rikhiane Vaikuntha Vas,
Pir Sohodev Kedo Saam;
Partak Dharyo Hari Naam,
Pir Sadardin Kedo Saam;
Partak Naklanki Naam.
Ho Mara Samiji Tu (n) Jug Sadharie, Bhagat Udharie, Asur sangarie, Danav
Darie, Gatiyu Tarie, Asu Purie, Vacha Parie, Das Mahe Maro Tu (n) Sri Parmesara; Das
Mahe Naklanki Rupe Lidho Chhe Avtar Shaha Mowla Murtaza Ali Rupe Naam
Bhanayaji; Het Hakiqatne Karane Samiji Tame Bhale Bhale Avtarea; Das Avtar Mowla
Murtaza Ali Jo Se Pir Sadardin Bhakhea Se Sampuran.
Haq Ashahado Ana
La Ilaha Ilallah,
Ashahado Ana
Muhammad Rasulillah,
Ashahado Ana Amirul Mominin Ali Sahi Allah.
YA ALI YA ALI YA ALI
EJI AGAM AGOCHAR APARMPAR HARI E BHOT CHALATRA KIYA:
51
KIRTA JUGMA AAPE SAMI MACHHA RUPAJ LIA, SOHI KALMAHE
KAYAMJI AVSE NAKLANKI AVANHAR;
BRAHMA VISHNU MAHESAR ROOP FERAVIA MUSALMANI LIYA,
SOHI KALMAHE KAYAMJI AVSE NAR NAKLANKI AVANHAR.
Meaning:
Our Lord SHRI HARI VISHNU (THE ALI), Omnipotent, Omniscient,
Omnipresent, Boundless, Beginning less, Endless, Whose Unfathomable
mysteries are unknown to even eighty million angels, prophets, pirs, and
paygambers, his ways are extraordinarily mysterious!!!
He incarnated – HIMSELF-in the aspect of “MACHH ROOP”
In KARTA YUGA, and the Advent of the same “NOOR” (Light Of Ali) shall be
INCARNATE in KALIYUGA as “DASMO NAKLANKI AVTAR.”
Now BRAHMA, VISHNU and MAHESHAR have changed their garbs and they
are now in Musalmani aspect. The advent of SHRI VISHNU (THE ALI)
KAYAMJI shall be in the aspect of “NAR NAKLANK DASMO AVTAR.”
HAZARAT MOWLA MURTAZA ALI is the TENTH INCARNATION of
the LORD SHRI VISHNU, the DASMO “NAKLANKI AVTAR,” the same “NOOR” as
what the Hindus call “SHRI VISHNU.” He is the MOWLA MURTAZA ALI who
reincarnated in Arabia, proclaimed as the First Holy Imam at KHUM-E-GADIR by the
Holy Prophet Muhammad.
All Imams descendant from Hazrat Ali are the same “OOLUL” AMR
MINKUM,” the same “NOOR” OF ALI, the DASMO “NAKLANKI AVTAR.” Today this
“NOOR” is MOWLANA SHAH KARIM AL-HUSAIYNI, SAHEB-UL-ZAMAN, HAZER
JOMEJO DHANI, and ANANT CRODI JIVEJO TARANHAR – “NOOR –EN-ALLAH
NOOR” HAZER IMAM.
The DASMO “NAKLANKI AVTAR” has reincarnated into KALIYUGA to
fight and destroy the devil DAIT KALINGO of KALIYUGA. He will fight the devil on his
horse DUL-DUL. DAIT KALINGO with his very large army will march from CHINA B
NAGRI to JAMPUDIP (INDIA). He will perform many miracles and tricks: feed horses
that are made of wood; call alive dead fathers and mothers; keep flowing endless sources of
honey, milk and food; make pure ghee from ordinary water, etc. The whole world will be
charmed by his tricks, but true momins shall not be misguided.
Against this, the DASMO “NAKLANKI AVTAR” MOWLA SHAH
MURTAZA ALI or the HAZAR JOMEJO DHANI HAZAR IMAM will be present with
his NOORANI LAKSHAR of:
NINETY NINE CRORES HAKJ,
THIRTY TWO CRORES KINNAR,
THIRTY THREE CRORES DEVTAS,
MUKHI OF FIVE CRORES RAJA PAYLAG,
MUKHI OF SEVEN CRORES RAJA HARISHCHANDRA,
MILLIONS OF JOGNIS & GINS,
And ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FOUR THOUSAND PIRS &
PAYGAMBARS.
The armies of both sides shall remain unshaken, undefeated, each powerful
against the other, until “HAZAR JOMEJO DHANI,” DASMO “NAKLANKI
AVTAR” with his TRI-POINTED ZULFIQAR and on his DUL DUL will appear
and destroy DAIT KALINGO.
This will be the time when the DAS AVTAR shall be
complete and accomplished.

This RUHANI prediction by Our Holy Pir Sadardin,
which has been given to us MOMINS in advance, will come true.

Post by **Admin** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:14 am

There is a nice explanation of Das Avatar by late Senior Missionary Bandali Haji in a book named Noor en Allah Noor at the links below

there is also a handwritten affidavit presented in British Court by Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah which talks of the Das Avatar

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/15494

http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/15495

http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/15497

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:35 pm

I think Mehboob's efforts to put whole ginan on Das Avatar with its translation is a great effort.
Mehboob please keep putting this kind ginans with its translation, if nobody else then I will sure appreciate your kind effort. I visit your Ismaili Gnosis on and off, it has also good information like what is Imamat? what is piratan? I will suggest other readers to visit Ismaili gnosis.

While reading the ginan and its translation few questions areise in my mind even though I hold a doctorate degree in Medieval poems!! I can not understand its properly, but lets start with following verses.

Pir Ma Baap says that: and I quot

"Je Sambhale Das Avtar,
Te Dame Moksh Mugat Didar; ( not " Dame" but should be "Pame")
Je Sambhale Nar Ne naar,
Tene Avagaman Nahire Sansar;

I don't see translation of above verses!! any reason not to put it? i know the meaning but why you ignored this important translation for other readers.

Second I need your help in my undrstanding

MURTAZA ALI or the HAZAR JOMEJO DHANI HAZAR IMAM will be present with
his NOORANI LAKSHAR of:
NINETY NINE CRORES HAKJ,
THIRTY TWO CRORES KINNAR,
THIRTY THREE CRORES DEVTAS,
MUKHI OF FIVE CRORES RAJA PAYLAG,
MUKHI OF SEVEN CRORES RAJA HARISHCHANDRA,
MILLIONS OF JOGNIS & GINS,
And ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FOUR THOUSAND PIRS &
PAYGAMBARS.

Do you thing the king Prahlad , king Harishchandra will come back?
What is Kinnar? what is Megh, do you think 1,24,000 pirs and paygamber will returen during Zahoorat?

Post by **Admin** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:01 am

Please read first the book of Noor en Allah Noor of Bandali Haji as the reply to your question is already there....

In any case part of the text may be referring to symbols or there may be other explanation related to the definition of the concept of Time.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:01 am

There is also the related link below.

The DARSHAN OF DAS AVTAAR
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... opic&t=344

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:05 am

agakhani wrote:Do you thing the king Prahlad , king Harishchandra will come back?
What is Kinnar? what is Megh, do you think 1,24,000 pirs and paygamber will returen during Zahoorat?

Kinar - name of thirty two crore souls that were graced with
salvation in the third kalap(Arza Kalap)

Mega - name of fivty six crore souls that were graced with
salvation in the second kalap(Fayla Kalap)

Verses from Anant Akhado:

Aashaajee Peer Paygambar sarve jeev jaage
jaage te janpudeep maanhe jee
jampudeep maanhe melaann-j hoyshe
Imaam puree nagree jaanno ..............Haree anant...98

Oh Lord All souls will awaken with the Peers and Prophets
they will awaken in the Indian sub-continent (symbol of Eternal Home)
In the Indian sub-continent there will be a gathering
It will be called the town of Imam puri
Haree You are eternal...

Aashaajee Tthaamo thaam-thee foj-j chaale
ne chaale te bahu jeev jee
annat akhaaddo tees din hoyse
hoyshe te hal-hal-kaar..................Haree anant...99

Oh Lord From place to place the army will move
and it will move many souls
On that day the eternal gathering will take place
and it will be very noisy
Haree You are eternal...

Aashaajee Peer Paygambar sarve motta hoyshe
hoyshe te enne tthaam jee
sahu maanhe Ali tej-vant jaanno
so Shaah bettha takhat rachaaya.........Haree anant..100

Oh Lord The Pirs and the Prophets will all be greatly honoured
and they will be at the Lord's abode
Out of all Ali will be the brightest
He is the seated Lord who has established the throne
Haree You are eternal...

Ginan:
HA(N)SAPUREE NAGAREE MAA(N)HE MAA(N)DDAVO
PEER SADARDEEN

shaah maaro chaddase mahaajam raat
paa(n)che karoddsu(n) raajaa pahelaaj saath bhaai.................5

My Lord will appear on the night of great death.
He will be with King Pahelaaj the saviour of five crore souls.

shaah maaro chaddase mahaajam raat
saate karoddsu(n) raajaa hareecha(n)ddhr saath bhaai..............6

My Lord will appear on the night of great death.
He will be with King Pahelaaj the saviour of seven crore souls.

shaah maaro chaddase mahaajam raat
nav karoddsu(n) raajaa jujeshtthan saath bhaai....................7

My Lord will appear on the night of great death.
He will be with King Jujeshthan, the saviour of nine crore souls.

Read the whole Ginan at:
http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22865

I hope the above verses will answer your questions.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:22 am

Jakhs= yakhs= bacterias
Megh= birds
Kinnar= amphibions

At the time of KALAPS there were no humans , thats why momins who achieve salvation were animals,bacterias etc And I guess at that time Imamat was also in animals e.g fish,tortoise,birds,lions, chimpanzees etc

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:36 am

My question is simple: how can a deceased person as mentioned in ginan like Prahlad , Udhisthir can come back? I mean it is not possible for human being when some one dies they can not come back!

Read the word ;"CHADSHE" "AAVSHE" these word are quoted in future tense.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:37 am

agakhani wrote:My question is simple: how can a deceased person as mentioned in ginan like Prahlad , Udhisthir can come back? I mean it is not possible for human being when some one dies they can not come back!

Read the word ;"CHADSHE" "AAVSHE" these word are quoted in future tense.

You once said that you have read the Autobiography of a Yogi. Didn't Lord Krishna, Sri Yukteshwar come back to Yoganda in his hotel room in Mumbai.

God realized persons can come back if they choose to, especially for a great ocassion!

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:01 am

Yes, I read that book twice and many more other books on reincarnation specially a well known book 'Apprenticed to a Himalayan Master' written by a Muslim author name Mumtaj Ali ,"At the Feet of a Himalayan Master': written by Swami Rama and many more!! they all say deceased person can come back but in this modern time does it seems logical?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:17 pm

Swami Sri Yukteshwar gave a scientific explanation of how he came back. Was it not logical to you?

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:31 pm

That specific explanation is true for few saints,sages and Siddha yogis like, Babaji, Yoganand, Telang Swami and Swami Yukteshwar but it is not possible for every one.
Swami Yukteshwar had some divine powers!( which Swami Yoganand has mentioned in his book "Autobiography of a Yogi", his soul was great and he had some god gifted abilities so, that he came back in that Hotel after his death. but for others it is not possible at all! I do not believe that King Prahalad or King Yudhisthir will come back with their 5 crore and 7 crores armies, it is just allegorical examples for better understanding and might be to show how big the army will be with our Imam at that time!!., may be...
I don't think that 33 crores devtas ( who had died thousand and thousand years ago) will come back in their own life again and will fight with daint kalinga!!!. Zahoorat will take place! Daint Kalinga will be killed I, agree with that but our Imam has to fight with living human being army not the dead and deceased human beings.period

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:51 am

agakhani wrote:That specific explanation is true for few saints,sages and Siddha yogis like, Babaji, Yoganand, Telang Swami and Swami Yukteshwar but it is not possible for every one.
Swami Yukteshwar had some divine powers!( which Swami Yoganand has mentioned in his book "Autobiography of a Yogi", his soul was great and he had some god gifted abilities so, that he came back in that Hotel after his death. but for others it is not possible at all! I do not believe that King Prahalad or King Yudhisthir will come back with their 5 crore and 7 crores armies, it is just allegorical examples for better understanding and might be to show how big the army will be with our Imam at that time!!., may be...
I don't think that 33 crores devtas ( who had died thousand and thousand years ago) will come back in their own life again and will fight with daint kalinga!!!. Zahoorat will take place! Daint Kalinga will be killed I, agree with that but our Imam has to fight with living human being army not the dead and deceased human beings.period

Agakhani bhai,

Four mukhis ( prahlad,, jujhister ) etc and 33 crore souls attain salvation or asal mukaam , they are got one with Imam..so I guess it means all of these personalities are Imam himself.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:55 am

Shinan, please e-mail me I have to say something in this regard. I deleted your e-mail accidentally.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:43 am

Does anyone have translation of Das avatar motto Which is written by Syed Imam Shah.

Ismaili.net has the translation of only Dasmo Avatar in the thesis work of Khakee,Gulshan and I want full translation of the Granth. If anyone have full translation, plz providing in here.

Post by **Admin** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:40 pm

There is a summary in late Al Waez Bandali Haji's Noorun Allah Noor.

Gulshan Khakee's thesis can become a basis with Bandali Haji's work for any person who feels competent to translate the whole work of Das Avatar in its variegated versions.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:45 am

Admin wrote:There is a summary in late Al Waez Bandali Haji's Noorun Allah Noor.

Gulshan Khakee's thesis can become a basis with Bandali Haji's work for any person who feels competent to translate the whole work of Das Avatar in its variegated versions.

I had already read Noor un Allah Noor, but I cannot agree with his explanation, according to late al waez there were human population on earth in each avatar, but according to my understanding dasavatar is theory of evolution of life on earth and concept of Imamat with each organism, thats why I'm looking for translation.

mahebubchatur · Post by **mahebubchatur** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:51 am

Das avtar-recitation with reverence & love... http://youtu.be/f_UOpxEA3PU

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:19 am

ismaili103 wrote: I had already read Noor un Allah Noor, but I cannot agree with his explanation, according to late al waez there were human population on earth in each avatar, but according to my understanding dasavatar is theory of evolution of life on earth and concept of Imamat with each organism, thats why I'm looking for translation.

The Das Avtaar is a narrative involving the worship and salvation of humans. Below are verses from Anant Akhado:

Aashaajee Sankhaa-sur to saaher pettho
toe na melyo tunhee jee
maaree daannav ved-j vaaryaa
rakheesar gher vadhaayun................Haree anant..405

Oh Lord Sankha-sur was in the depths of the ocean
even then you did not abandon his pursuit
Having slayed the demon the Lord recovered the vedas
entirely
and the homes of the devotees became happy and joyous
Haree You are eternal...

Aashaajee Bhagat Rukh-mugat taaryaa
evaa taaraa kaam jee
bhagat taaryaa aap ugaarya
maaryo te Sankha-sur....................Haree anant..406

Oh Lord You gave salvation to Bhagat(the pious) Rukh-mugat
such are your (exalted) deeds
You gave salvation to the pious momins and saved them
and you slayed the demon Sankha-sur..
Haree You are eternal...

Similarly you can access verses on other Avatars at:

http://www.ismaili.net/granths/part5.html

Verse 404 and onwards...

What you are thinking about is evolution of life and there was a witness for each phase of evolution. But this would entail many many Avatars and not only ten.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:39 am

What you are thinking about is evolution of life and there was a witness for each phase of evolution. But this would entail many many Avatars and not only ten.

Yes Karim bhai, evolution is before dasavatar because Pirs mentioned about jakh, meghs and kinar.

homes of the devotees

Devotees can be human, they can be a fish, they can be a lion and they can be bacterias. Pirs did not use the word Humans for devotees. Pir had also used the word like JAKHS ( Bacterias ) , MEGHS ( Birds) and KINNARS ( Amphibians) who achieved salvation.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:59 am

ismaili103 wrote:Devotees can be human, they can be a fish, they can be a lion and they can be bacterias. Pirs did not use the word Humans for devotees. Pir had also used the word like JAKHS ( Bacterias ) , MEGHS ( Birds) and KINNARS ( Amphibians) who achieved salvation.

Aashaajee Nar-sinh rupe daannav maaryaa
Bhagat Pahelaaj ugaaryaa jee
kartaa jug maanhe chaar avtaar-j keedhaa
keedhaa so Sree Naaraayann..............Haree anant..416

Oh Lord In the form of Nar-sinh, the Lord killed the demon
and saved pious Pahelaaj
The Lord was compelled to take four manifestations in
the Kartaa-jug
and He was Sri Naaraayann(the Lord)
Haree You are eternal...

Pahelaaj was definitely human and he was the saviour of 5 crores. Nar-sinh was non-human.

More...
Translation of Pahelaj Ni Mata e Kunvar
http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/31379

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:28 am

Pahelaaj was definitely human and he was the saviour of 5 crores. Nar-sinh was non-human.

Pir only wrote Pahelaaj, we did not know either pahelaaj was human or animal.

Did you know why army and kingdom of Shri Ram was monkeys and Homo Erectus including Hanuman ( he was also homo erectus ) , because Shri Ram was the first Human Being on earth or Shri Ram was first Homo Sapiens avatar. Late Alwaez abu ali wrote it in his article about Granth and Ginans.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:25 pm

I agree with Ismaili 103, PRHALAD, PEHLAJ as described in our ginans was not in human shape he was deer EJI PRAHLAD NI MANE ENE VAN MA JANAMYO, he was an animal and only animals can take birth in Van/jungle! According the evolution theory he should be animal but many historians and mythologists has shown him as human being! That is we still have to research about!
we have quiet bit discussions in this topics but many participant includin Kbhai didn't agree with, that is just fine every one has their own analyzatios.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:18 pm

agakhani wrote:I agree with Ismaili 103, PRHALAD, PEHLAJ as described in our ginans was not in human shape he was deer EJI PRAHLAD NI MANE ENE VAN MA JANAMYO, he was an animal and only animals can take birth in Van/jungle! According the evolution theory he should be animal but many historians and mythologists has shown him as human being! .

Abhai, if Pahelaaj was indeed non-human, why would Pir Sadardeen mention at all in the Ginan. Aren't all animals born in the jungle? What was so special about him being born in the jungle?

I think the reason for mentioning it was to demonstrate that Pahelaaj had a difficult childhood and he was under constant protection of God.

Also the Ginan mentions the devil meeting the astrologer who studied the scripture and read the stars. Do you think according to the evolutionary theory animals are capable of that?

In one private mehmani MSMS mentioned one very devoted murid as being like Pahelaaj. Do you think he meant he was a dear?

www.ismaili.net

Das Avatar

Das Avatar

Re: Das Avatar

Das Avtar Ginan and meaning as received