Recycling of souls.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:21 pm

So what? in Quran there are many names of Kafirs has been mentioned, like Feron, Namrood! does that mean we should not read Quran?

There is a farman of SMS on Hadiths:

It may be possible that not all hadiths are true!! but if you find any hadith which seems it will be beneficiary to you then accept ! ( not exact words ) means if you find any hadith which seems good and acceptable then accept it no matter that hadith is true or fabricated!

There is a hadith of prophet Mohd. If you have to go China ( very far country to reach during prophet's time) for any type of knowledge then you should go there.
To mentioned names of twelvers imams and give references of their good quotation I don't see anything wrong in it, off course I do not accept them as my imam.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:24 pm

Absolutely true, I never went any Twelvers mosque nor I visited any Sunny or Shia mosque for namaz! in my whole life and I do not have any plan to go and perform namaz over there because for me a true namaz and a right mosque is my Dua and JK.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:23 pm

There is a hadith of prophet Mohd. If you have to go China ( very far country to reach during prophet's time) for any type of knowledge then you should go there.

This is fabricated Hadith ( Wikiislam)

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:24 pm

agakhani wrote:Absolutely true, I never went any Twelvers mosque nor I visited any Sunny or Shia mosque for namaz! in my whole life and I do not have any plan to go and perform namaz over there because for me a true namaz and a right mosque is my Dua and JK.

May your lord accept your prayers

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:39 am

Ya Ali Madad:

As for Historian member lesser said about him the better.
As for Bibi Fatima.( a daughter.spouse n mother.)
It is my absolute personal conviction at this phase of 49 Imam one co relate to almost all important phases of Imamat.

With co relating the Ahle Bayt of today and that of H.Ali phase and co imaging it.

I can tell that Bibi fatima was as radiant,charming,gracious and beautiful as Princess Zahra is today.

I believe in the living, the reality.She is a Noorani face and entity aligned n resident of heaven.( Khatoon e jannat ).

I want historians to study the phase of Imam SMS n Hakimbiamrillah.
There are many similarities.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:40 am

Ya Ali Madad:

As for Historian member lesser said about him the better.
As for Bibi Fatima.( a daughter.spouse n mother.)
It is my absolute personal conviction at this phase of 49 Imam one co relate to almost all important phases of Imamat.

With co relating the Ahle Bayt of today and that of H.Ali phase and co imaging it.

I can tell that Bibi fatima was as radiant,charming,gracious and beautiful as Princess Zahra is today.

I believe in the living, the reality.She is a Noorani face and entity aligned n resident of heaven.( Khatoon e jannat ).

I want historians to study the phase of Imam SMS n Hakimbiamrillah.
There are many similarities.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:38 am

Why drag princess Zara into this discussion?

Her father is 75% European, her mother is 100% europium and naturally we brownies are condition to think white skin is radiant.

Only God knows how Bibi Hawwa RA and Fatema RA looked like.

Please know that no disrespect for MHI and Princess Zara.

Post by **Admin** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:16 am

I remember in November 2001 in Aleppo, there was a meeting of Hazar Imam and the Grand Mufti of Aleppo with several dignitaries and Princess Zahra also.

The Grand Mufti made the following remarks: In the same way Bibi Fatima was the symbol and represented all the Muslim women of her time, Princess Zahra is representing in our eyes all the Muslim women of this time.

So yes, while some Muslims are stuck with Bibi Ayesha, we Ismailis are the "diwana" of Bibi Fatima. There is no need to fight over those choices.

Oh yes, since some do not know about the beauty of Bibji Fatima, she was known as al-Zahra, "the Radiant"

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:12 pm

In realty Islam is not about worshipping or praising human being dead or alive (reffered to as "Tagut" in Quran), Islam is about worshipping Allah as ordained in Quran and shown by Prophet. In fact Shia do not let single opportunity to pass to mention Aisha. For them she is culprit no 4.

Post by **Admin** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:53 pm

zznoor wrote:In realty Islam is not about....

At least have the wisdom and the decency to recognise that this is your interpretation and Allah is not obliged to follow your interpretation.

Come back to the thread of this discussion and if there is nothing interesting or important to say, you may abstain. Thanks you.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:32 pm

This is fabricated Hadith ( Wikiislam)

Which hadith is not fabricated!? even many Sunny brothers also accepting this fact that many hadiths are not true and must have been altered in latter years same way many ayas are also fabricated in Quran that is why I call Quran as altered and incomplete Quran or it is not in original shape.

Forget about wikiislam or widipedia these are not trusted information sites, anyone can put their comments in these websites whether it is true or false! use your common scenes to evaluate any hadith. BTW: about that hadith in which Rasoolullah told go to China for any kind knowledge is also found in Suah Sitta Hadith books!

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:29 pm

agakhani wrote:
This is fabricated Hadith ( Wikiislam)
Which hadith is not fabricated!? even many Sunny brothers also accepting this fact that many hadiths are not true and must have been altered in latter years same way many ayas are also fabricated in Quran that is why I call Quran as altered and incomplete Quran or it is not in original shape.

Forget about wikiislam or widipedia these are not trusted information sites, anyone can put their comments in these websites whether it is true or false! use your common scenes to evaluate any hadith. BTW: about that hadith in which Rasoolullah told go to China for any kind knowledge is also found in Suah Sitta Hadith books!

Those who claime Quran is altered have never shown this is ommitted or that is altered. When asked to put up they never put up but some whose Imman in Allah's book is weak , they never shut off. May their lord have mercy on them.

As far as Hadith is concerned Shiasm greatly depend on Hadit. So don't pick and choose.

Post by **Admin** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:55 pm

to zznoor,
There is a separate thread on the subject. Please this thread is on Souls, not on changes in the compilation. No compulsion in Religion.

You have nothing but contempt for intellectual discussion. Why? Are we missing something or is it that you are not part of the intellectual tradition which is the trade mark of Ismailism on those particular esoteric subjects?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:42 am

zznoor wrote:In realty Islam is not about worshipping or praising human being dead or alive (reffered to as "Tagut" in Quran), Islam is about worshipping Allah as ordained in Quran and shown by Prophet. In fact Shia do not let single opportunity to pass to mention Aisha. For them she is culprit no 4.

I am getting confused. In one of your posts you mentioned that you were a Shia. The Shias do regard the Ahl al-Bayt as having extra ordinary capacities. In fact you also mentioned that you considered them as intercessors. Have you changed your mind?

According to Ismailism Princess Zahra was shining neclklace radiating light as per verses of the Ginan below:

TEETH NAVMEE AAVYAA GURUJEE AAP-GARBI NO.19
PEER SHAMS

kareeyaa pa(n)jetan paaknaa vakhaann, upaavann nurnee re lol......3

He praised the five pure bodies and preached about the Light!

jyaa(n) sarjyaa kutub taaraa nur, te pa(n)jetan paaknaare lol.....4

Where the Light of the Star of "Qutb" (tablet) was established,
there were the five pure bodies!

te to see(n)ter hajaar varas ugamataa saar
faree em ugataare lol.............................................5

It took seventy thousand years for it to arise,
in this manner it took the same time to set!

te taaraa nabee mahamad naam, alee seer taajeeyaare lol...........6

The name of this star was Muhammed,
and it shines on the head of Aly!

jenaa ha(n)s galaamaa(n) faatmaa nur, zabuke jem veejallee re lol.7

And in the necklace of whom the light of Fatima glitters like lightening!

tene be kaane dur imaam hasan husen samaave tejmaa(n)re lol.......8

In the holes of his two ears Imaams Hassan and Husein fit as (earings) of Light!

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:31 am

AS Kbhai;

Above Ginan refers to Panjatan Pak and to Bibi Fatema As Zera RA daughter of Prophet of Islam not Princess Zehra D/OHis holiness maulana Karim Agakan.

Admin has cautioned me to stick to thread. You have great latitude to digrace from thread which I do not have.
I did not bring up Princess Zehra to start with.

Salaam

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:35 am

Kbhai;

I am not Shia or Sunni.
I believe in
6 fundamentals of belief; they are as follows
1. To believe in Allah, 2. To believe in His angels, 3. To believe in His books, 4. To believe in His prophets, 5. To believe the Day of Judgment (life after death), 6. To believe in destiny (qadar), that the good and the evil are from Allah.

And 5 foundation namely 1: Shahada 2: Salat, 3: Swam, 4: Zakat, 5:Hajj

This is supported by Quran and authentic Hadith of prophet

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:41 am

zznoor wrote:AS Kbhai;

Above Ginan refers to Panjatan Pak and to Bibi Fatema As Zera RA daughter of Prophet of Islam not Princess Zehra D/OHis holiness maulana Karim Agakan.

I stand corrected, I meant Hazarat Bibi Fatimah.

zznoor wrote:I am not Shia or Sunni.

I get you now. You are entitled to your interpretation, so long as you accept others' interpretations as well. There are many paths in Islam.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:33 am

There are many paths in Islam.

Many paths are man made. Quran and prophet taught only one path.

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:38 pm

agakhani wrote:Kam ki baate part :2

How Bibi Fatima looks a like:

Imam Hasan Askari(a.s.) reported that his father quoted Jabir Ibn Abdullah as saying : ' The Messenger of Allah, Peace be Upon him and his cleansed progeny, said : ' When Allah created Adam and Eve, they strutted through paradise and said : ' Who are better than we ? At that moment they noticed an image of a girl like they had never seen before; from this girl came an illuminating light so bright that it almost blinded the eyes.
They said : ' O Lord, what is this ? ' He answered : ' This is the Image of Fatima(s.a.), the mistress of your women descendants. '

Reply,

Please quote the name of the book and page #, so that i can verify. Thanks.
You wrote," from this girl came an illuminating light so bright that it almost
blinded the eyes." Sir it blinded your eyes or Baba Adam and Bibi Eve's eyes.
When they were blinded how come they saw the image. You wrote," He answered", He means who?

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:48 pm

zznoor wrote:In realty Islam is not about worshipping or praising human being dead or alive (reffered to as "Tagut" in Quran), Islam is about worshipping Allah as ordained in Quran and shown by Prophet. In fact Shia do not let single opportunity to pass to mention Aisha. For them she is culprit no 4.

ZZ Aadaab,

We Ismails respect 3 caliphs and bibi Aysha as per guidance of our previous Imam and present Imam. In fact I have seen many Ismailis have kept their daughters name as Aysha and personally I don't see any wrong with the name.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:50 pm

You wrote," from this girl came an illuminating light so bright that it almost

Nope, not me, who narrated it, and who quoted it? is clearly mentioned in my above post.

I will give the name of the book and page # as you requested, give me little time.

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:52 pm

zznoor wrote:
There is a hadith of prophet Mohd. If you have to go China ( very far country to reach during prophet's time) for any type of knowledge then you should go there.
This is fabricated Hadith ( Wikiislam)

ZZ Aadaab,

You are mistaken, this is a MUSTANID HADITH. Prophet Muhammad wanted to see literate ummah.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:09 pm

We Ismails respect 3 caliphs and bibi Aysha as per guidance of our previous Imam and present Imam. In fact I have seen many Ismailis have kept their daughters name as Aysha and personally I don't see any wrong with the name.

Don't forget that !not all Ismailis respect them! and specially those Ismailis who have study the history and find out the injustice made by those three caliphs towards H. Ali (s.a.) can not respect them!

for your kind information Do you know that one Ismaili imam has also used very harsh words towards them? and that words were..........!!!!

Besides Ismailis there are many Shia, daruze, Twelvers, Zaidiya e.t.c. also doesn't give much respect towards those 3 caliphs. only Sunnies gives them respect.

In Indo-Pak Ismaili jamats the name "Aayesha" is still not given to their daughters, unless they keep one leg in Ismailism and other leg in Sunnism!!! like you!! It is possible that it may be true in your regions but not any where else!

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:17 pm

I will love to read those farmans in which (as you wrote above ) that present and previous Imams told us to give respect towards the first 3 caliphs and Aayesha!!! please PM me those farmans.
I do not need references from a Paris conference and Memoirs of Aga Khan I need real farmans which should be directly addressed to the Ismaili Jamats not the general audience!

After you provide these farmans I will post those farmans in which previous Imams told us not to respect them!

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:20 pm

junglikhan4 wrote:
zznoor wrote:
There is a hadith of prophet Mohd. If you have to go China ( very far country to reach during prophet's time) for any type of knowledge then you should go there.
This is fabricated Hadith ( Wikiislam)

ZZ Aadaab,

You are mistaken, this is a MUSTANID HADITH. Prophet Muhammad wanted to see literate ummah.

AS to you brother

With regard to the hadeeth mentioned, “Seek knowledge even if you have to go as far as China, for seeking knowledge is a duty on every Muslim,” Shaykh al-Albaani said in Da’eef al-Jaami’: “(It is) fabricated.” (no. 906).

The proven hadeeth is that which was narrated by Ibn Maajah from the hadeeth of Anas ibn Maalik, who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim.’” (220. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Ibn Maajah. What is meant by knowledge here is knowledge of sharee’ah (Islamic knowledge). Al-Thawri said: “It is the knowledge for which no person has any excuse for not knowing.”

In my opinion prophet meant all kind of knowledge.

Allah knows best.

Wasalaam

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:26 am

To zznoor;Ya Ali Madad.

1.) Firstly.I will be an attorney for Kmaherali for his earlier posting( my fees to him will be a cup of coffee.)
In baatin and even interpretation wise.Even ginans are not merely copy paste, they imply us to see Ahle bayt of today holisitically from the descriptions mentioned to visualize today with own eyes what they wrote in the past.
BTW Bibi fatima name was also Zahra. she was the daughter of a person who was ruler of Ummah. so in persian/urdu language the daughter of the ruler is called as shahzadi.In simple english it mean princess. there were many titles for Bibi Fatima in arabic.whether princess word in arabic was attributed to her can be searched by historians.
so naming bibi fatima= shahzadi/princess Zahra is absolutley possible.
( even prophet had titles like nabi,mustafa,rasool, paighamber etc.
so naming nabi mohammed= rasool e khuda is absolutley possible.
In Ginans the underlying essence is important not cut n dried leaf as kept by some in albums as past memories souveniers.

2) as you have defined yourself where EXACTLY you stand/hang with own belief/faith is concerned.
I am assuming that you have fallen rather than gone off from Ismailism
( that I am an educated person standing on my own feet n feel pissed off
a person looking like normal human should direct my life ).
The belief of all muslim is based from the sect he or she is affialted.
there no other main sect n subsect than sunni and shia perse.
so on th ground are many sect than Imam led Ismailism.
I see that you have from high platfrom of inteelect that from 5-7th seven havens and got stuck in palm tree( upar se giri aur khajoor ke jaad pe jaa latki.
If you are on the ground you have to be a part of some sects.

You mentioned that you believe in HIS holy book.
as you are not bound by any tafseer of wise or quacks n you DO NOT align to any sect or it's ideology but have immense faith in your educate mind.
Please answer from your own mind with NO copy paste of others have said or erred.
In quran the words mentioned are 'Imam E Mubeen". what does it means?
No copy paste allowed.answer from your mind. as you believe in his words from your heart n mind and from any angle of sunni or shia as as Boldly declared that you are none of them,so you advocating yourself
seeker of truth.
So answer this Be yourself. I personally see you a quick changing stands as escapist/fugitive/Bhagoda.

GO AHEAD PROVE YOUR ASSUMED HIGHLY EDUCATED MIND.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:52 am

GO AHEAD PROVE YOUR ASSUMED HIGHLY EDUCATED MIND.

She still has KG students mind!, and she proves that on and off and becomes laughable person in this forum!!
I know her very well because I was her neighbor in India and here in USA too! so besides me who else can know her better than me!?

She just borrows ideas from copy and pasting stuff! aour jyada se jyada from Wikiislam or Wikipedia that's it! she can not look further than this!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:16 pm

agakhani wrote:I will love to read those farmans in which (as you wrote above ) that present and previous Imams told us to give respect towards the first 3 caliphs and Aayesha!!! please PM me those farmans.
I do not need references from a Paris conference and Memoirs of Aga Khan I need real farmans which should be directly addressed to the Ismaili Jamats not the general audience!

After you provide these farmans I will post those farmans in which previous Imams told us not to respect them!

MSMS made the proclamation of the final reconciliation between Shia and Sunni:

"In the present Imamat the final reconciliation between the Shia and Sunni doctrines has been publicly proclaimed by myself on exactly the same lines as Hazrat Aly did at the death of the Prophet and during the first thirty years after that. The political and worldly Khalifat was accepted by Hazrat Aly in favour of the three first Khalifs voluntarily and with goodwill for the protection of the interests of the Muslims throughout the world.

We Ismailis now in the same spirit accept the Khalifat of the first Khalifs and such other Khalifs as during the last thirteen centuries helped the cause of Islam, politically, socially and from a worldly point of view. On the other hand the Spiritual Imamat remained with Hazrat Aly and remains with his direct descendants always alive till the day of Judgement."

In his Farman to the Zanzibar Jamat MHI said:

"The second important principle is respect for others. There is diversity in the Ummah. There has been diversity for fourteen hundred years, but respect others, and seek respect from them. Because it is only on these conditions that the Ummah, the full body of those who practise the faith of Islam, will be able to make real progress in the world in which we are living. And this unity, which we hope and pray for in the Ummah, bring it into your Jamat here in Zanzibar. Bring it into your Jamat here in Zanzibar. Live in unity. Respect each other, respect each other's pluralism of views, of attitudes. But remember that you are Shia Muslims, and while you respect each other, abide by your commitment to Shia Islam. This does not mean that you do not respect other interpretations of Islam as they should respect yours. But this notion of pluralism, and of respect for others, is fundamentally important in the decades ahead, not only for our Jamat, but for the Ummah as a whole." (Zanzibar, Aug 24, 1997)

In his speech MHI said:

"From the very beginnings of Islam, the search for knowledge has been central to our cultures. I think of the words of Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Talib, the first hereditary Imam of the Shia Muslims, and the last of the four rightly-guided Caliphs after the passing away of the Prophet (may peace be upon Him). In his teachings, Hazrat Ali emphasized that “No honour is like knowledge.” And then he added that “No belief is like modesty and patience, no attainment is like humility, no power is like forbearance, and no support is more reliable than consultation.”"

http://www.akdn.org/speech/182/American ... y-in-Cairo

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:31 pm

zznoor wrote:
junglikhan4 wrote:
zznoor wrote: This is fabricated Hadith ( Wikiislam)

ZZ Aadaab,

You are mistaken, this is a MUSTANID HADITH. Prophet Muhammad wanted to see literate ummah.
AS to you brother

With regard to the hadeeth mentioned, “Seek knowledge even if you have to go as far as China, for seeking knowledge is a duty on every Muslim,” Shaykh al-Albaani said in Da’eef al-Jaami’: “(It is) fabricated.” (no. 906).

The proven hadeeth is that which was narrated by Ibn Maajah from the hadeeth of Anas ibn Maalik, who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim.’” (220. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Ibn Maajah. What is meant by knowledge here is knowledge of sharee’ah (Islamic knowledge). Al-Thawri said: “It is the knowledge for which no person has any excuse for not knowing.”

In my opinion prophet meant all kind of knowledge.

Allah knows best.

Wasalaam

ZZ Aadaab,

The China hadith is quoted in the book " The spirit of Islam" written by Syed Amir Ali, page # 361. Syed Amir Ali has taken this hadith from the book,
" Misbah ush Shariat".

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:30 pm

agakhani wrote:I will love to read those farmans in which (as you wrote above ) that present and previous Imams told us to give respect towards the first 3 caliphs and Aayesha!!! please PM me those farmans.
I do not need references from a Paris conference and Memoirs of Aga Khan I need real farmans which should be directly addressed to the Ismaili Jamats not the general audience!

After you provide these farmans I will post those farmans in which previous Imams told us not to respect them!

Reply,

In my post I have used the word guidance and bot farman, but as you insist, I shall quote few.
MSMS said," You should not speak ill of other religions or ridicule any body."
( Precious Pearls)

MSMS said," We Ismailis now in the same spirit accept the khalifat of the first khalifs and such other khalifs as during the last 1300 centuries helped the cause of Islam politically, socially, and from a worldly point of view."

MHI said," From the very beginnings of Islam, the search for knowledge has been central to our cultures, I think of the words of Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Talib, the first hereditary Imam of the Shia Muslims, and THE LAST OF THE FOUR RIGHTLY GUIDED CALIPHS after the passing away of the Prophet--------"

MHI said," The second important principle is respect to others. There is diversity in the Ummah. There has been diversity for 1400 years, but respect others and seek respect from them. Because it is only on these conditions that the ummah, the full body of those who practice faith of Islam, will be able to make real progress in the world in which we are living------"
( 24 AUG,1997; Zangibar )
OBEY FARMAN AND GUIDANCE OF THE IMAM OF THE TIME.