Is Quran compilation complete?

[junglikhan4]

Reply,
When Imam comes for didaar, first Quran is recited and then ginan.

Yes the zaher is first and the batin follows. Qur'an is the zaher ( message for mankind) and Ginans are the batin (interpretation for the Jamat). Then of cousre the Farman which may be considered as Batin al- Batin. The Farman is most imporatnt for the occasion!

Km, I consider you the master of twisting the meanings. What is the meaning of mulaa tell me. Is it scholar? By the way in spainish mulla means money.

When you google the word Mullah you get:

www.thefreedictionary.com/mullah
A religious teacher or leader, especially in Shiite practice. 2. Used as a form of address for such a teacher.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/mullah

mullah. title given in Muslim lands to one learned in theology and sacred law, 1610s, from Turkish molla, Persian and Urdu mulla, from Arabic mawla "master," from waliya "reigned, governed."

You may interpret the word to mean money but it does not change the fact that the Imam is the Qur'an!

Our pirs follow the philosophy of PANTHEISM, the doctrine which means God is every thing.

That's not true. Provide an example from a Ginan to prove your point.

Reply,

1. The audience is same in front of Imam while reciting Quran and ginan means zahir and batin are same. When Imam's farman is about the world economy, what kind of batin is there in.
2. Let me ask you a question; Do you or Admin or any Ismaili will allow to call Hazar Imam as Mullah Shah Karim? I shall never do and never accept it.
I personally believe every word should have one meaning according to dictionary, many meanings of one word creates confusions.
3. Regarding Pantheism, you quoted a couplet of ginan Sabhaga---- which according to me is example of Pantheism. Let me quote one more;

AAPEY MULLAH AAPEY QAZI
AAPEY PARHEY SO AAP NAMAZI. ( Pir Sadruddin )

Our Pirs followed the Sanskrit philosophy of," TET TOUM ASI ".

[Admin]

Are you referring to this verse?

E sabhaagaa aape Shaah mulaa aape Shaah kaaji,
aape ved Quraan sabhaagaa 8

I am looking at Pir Shams version. There is no such thing.

You quote Pir Sadardin version, please help me find the link to the full text as I could not find your verse attributed to Pir sadardin?

I suggest that you read this one

http://ismaili.net/ginans/transcription ... 2-071.html

http://ismaili.net/timeline/2003/20030604dawn.html

[kmaherali]

1. The audience is same in front of Imam while reciting Quran and ginan means zahir and batin are same. When Imam's farman is about the world economy, what kind of batin is there in.
2. Let me ask you a question; Do you or Admin or any Ismaili will allow to call Hazar Imam as Mullah Shah Karim? I shall never do and never accept it.
I personally believe every word should have one meaning according to dictionary, many meanings of one word creates confusions.

So why did you say in one of your post that the Qur'an is recited first and then the Ginans? What was the point you were making?

Also in some Farmans he does talk about matters specific to the Jamat or for specific Mandlis that are not applicable outside the context.

Mulla has different meanings all pointing to the learned people. In a way the Imam performs the work of a Mulla in his role of interpreting the faith. So what is wrong with that? Don't Mullas in other traditions interpret the faith?

[junglikhan4]

Are you referring to this verse?

E sabhaagaa aape Shaah mulaa aape Shaah kaaji,
aape ved Quraan sabhaagaa 8

I am looking at Pir Shams version. There is no such thing.

You quote Pir Sadardin version, please help me find the link to the full text as I could not find your verse attributed to Pir sadardin?

I suggest that you read this one

http://ismaili.net/ginans/transcription ... 2-071.html

http://ismaili.net/timeline/2003/20030604dawn.html

Reply,

AAPEY MULLAH AAPEY QAZI
AAPEY PARHEY SO AAP NAMAZI ( Pir Sadruddin )

This couplet is from BHUJ NIRIJIN; PART # 24.

[junglikhan4]

1. The audience is same in front of Imam while reciting Quran and ginan means zahir and batin are same. When Imam's farman is about the world economy, what kind of batin is there in.
2. Let me ask you a question; Do you or Admin or any Ismaili will allow to call Hazar Imam as Mullah Shah Karim? I shall never do and never accept it.
I personally believe every word should have one meaning according to dictionary, many meanings of one word creates confusions.

So why did you say in one of your post that the Qur'an is recited first and then the Ginans? What was the point you were making?

Also in some Farmans he does talk about matters specific to the Jamat or for specific Mandlis that are not applicable outside the context.

Mulla has different meanings all pointing to the learned people. In a way the Imam performs the work of a Mulla in his role of interpreting the faith. So what is wrong with that? Don't Mullas in other traditions interpret the faith?

Reply,

Quran came first and then Ginans. In Ismaili ta'limat Quran is superior than Ginans.
I have an innocent question for you; Would you like to call Hazar Imam as
Mullah Shah Karim because he interprets the Quran so the other mullahs too.
Please answer yes or no.

[Admin]

Yes Quran is easy tio understand for Arab speaking people and we have got the tafsir of the Quran from our Pirs in the Ginans which have therefore been equated to Farmans by our Imam.

So for us, the overwheilming majority of Ismailis who do not read and write Arabic, Farmans and their equivalent are part of the bolto Quran whch we can understand better than we understand Arabic and yet they contains the Wisdom of the Eternal Quran of Allah......

We obey the orders of the Prophet (PBUH) and therefore we consider that fresh guidance from Allah is given more importance for his Ibnul Wakht then old guidances which Allah in his al emcompassing Mercy gives to humanity to allow them to live in their own Time, not in the perpetual past in which some are still living. These are people who think Allah is restricted and can not guide humanity anymore to cope with the new demands of the future.

Admin

[junglikhan4]

You equate Imam = Quran.
But Quran is word of Allah and not Allah it self. Same way Mazhar of Allah is not
Allah himself.

Please explain the difference between Mazhar of Allah and Allah. Then we can discuss the rest.

Reply,

My assertion is that every particle in universe is mazhar of Allah. All human beings are mazhar of Allah. In the phrase mazhar of Allah the word "of" is of importance. It is a related term. In Arabic grammer it is called the rule of " MUDHAF AND MUDHAFUN ILAIHI " Let me give few examples'
KHALILULLAH means friend of Allah, now friend and Allah are different entities.
RASULULLAH means rasul (prophet )of Allah, here Rasul and Allah are different entities.
KITABULLAH means kitab ( Quran ) of Allah, two different entities. Kitab can not be called Allah.
Same way NOORULLAH, SAFIULLAH, WALIULLAH, ALIULLAH, there are hundreds of such phrases in Arabic.
Regarding your particular question related to Imam, I would say there are three terms; Noor, bearer of Noor and giver of Noor. Giver of Noor and bearer of Noor are not equal. Bearer of Noor is authorized by giver of Noor on His behalf to guide human beings. Here I equate Noor with authority/Ilm/Hikmat and that authorized Noor you can say is Mazharullah and chosen one. Some time after 1975 Paris conference, Alwaiz Abu Ali was asked the question about Mazharullah, he said the following couplet,

ADAM KO KHUDA MAT KAHO ADAM KHUDA NAHI
LEKIN KHUDA KEY NOOR SEY ADAM JUDA NAHI

[junglikhan4]

Yes Quran is easy tio understand for Arab speaking people and we have got the tafsir of the Quran from our Pirs in the Ginans which have therefore been equated to Farmans by our Imam.

So for us, the overwheilming majority of Ismailis who do not read and write Arabic, Farmans and their equivalent are part of the bolto Quran whch we can understand better than we understand Arabic and yet they contains the Wisdom of the Eternal Quran of Allah......

We obey the orders of the Prophet (PBUH) and therefore we consider that fresh guidance from Allah is given more importance for his Ibnul Wakht then old guidances which Allah in his al emcompassing Mercy gives to humanity to allow them to live in their own Time, not in the perpetual past in which some are still living. These are people who think Allah is restricted and can not guide humanity anymore to cope with the new demands of the future.

Admin

Reply,

There are more than 70% Ismailis who do not understand Gujrati, how come they will understand ginans.
Yes, I agree with your 3rd paragraph, Ismailis should be " IBNUL WAQT ",
there fore they should obey the farmans of Imam of the time( waqt ).

[kmaherali]

AAPEY MULLAH AAPEY QAZI
AAPEY PARHEY SO AAP NAMAZI ( Pir Sadruddin )

This couplet is from BHUJ NIRIJIN; PART # 24.

Thanks for the reference. The exact context of the verse is:

murakh je koee jaane naahee(n)
vaa(n) ko haal peechhaane naahee(n)...............................1

The foolish do not know anything(about Divine Love) and therefore cannot comprehend the state of the lover(peace).

rab ddhrashtt ku(n) aane naahee(n)
(deve seer saattaa ku aape naahee)
or kahe to maane naahee(n)........................................2

These people do not submit themselves to the vision of the Lord(or do not sacrifice their heads for the beloved) nor do they respond if told to.
eehaa(n) na buje maaee ne baap
seje khele aapohee aap............................................3

This state of the mystic lover cannot be comprehended even by his/her parents for he comfortably plays(this mystic game) by himself(i.e., it is a very personal path).

na ees maaee na ees baap
huvaa nira(n)jan aapohee aap......................................4

(For) He does not have a mother or father as He became the Unkowable by Himself.

aape mullaa aape kaazhee
aape padde so aap namaazee........................................5

He himself is the priest and He is the judge and He is the prayer leader and He is the performer of prayer.

From the above verse it is very clear that the term he refers to the mystic who has elevated himself to become God.

There is no way from the above verse you can conclude that everything is God.

[kmaherali]

Quran came first and then Ginans. In Ismaili ta'limat Quran is superior than Ginans.
I have an innocent question for you; Would you like to call Hazar Imam as
Mullah Shah Karim because he interprets the Quran so the other mullahs too.
Please answer yes or no.

Yes, what is wrong with that. That is part of his role.

The Imams have existed since creation. So the Farmans are more important than the Qur'an according to your logic. Why are they done after the recitation of Qur'an and Ginan. As you said we must pay attention to the Farman being Ibn al Waqt.

[agakhani_1]

There are more than 70% Ismailis who do not understand Gujrati, how come they will understand ginans.

Where have you taken above percentage? it is not right!

In USA many Gujarati learning classes have been schedule on and off in major cities to better understand ginans, this classes are scheduled keeping mind of younger generation and many kids join in it,
In India and specially in Mumbai and Gujarat area almost 99% Ismailis knows Gujarati.
In Pakistan seniors citizen who had migrated from India to Pakistan knows Gujarati very well! there are still many Ismailis who can speaks, writes and can read Gujarati in Pakistan, younger generation may have little Gujarati issues in Pakistan but this kind issues are in every country for younger generation.


Your above allegation and percentage is without any platform or any kind survey, which is absolutely wrong at least this time, it may be true after 10-15 years latter.

[ismaili103]

Yes Quran is easy tio understand for Arab speaking people and we have got the tafsir of the Quran from our Pirs in the Ginans which have therefore been equated to Farmans by our Imam.

So for us, the overwheilming majority of Ismailis who do not read and write Arabic, Farmans and their equivalent are part of the bolto Quran whch we can understand better than we understand Arabic and yet they contains the Wisdom of the Eternal Quran of Allah......

We obey the orders of the Prophet (PBUH) and therefore we consider that fresh guidance from Allah is given more importance for his Ibnul Wakht then old guidances which Allah in his al emcompassing Mercy gives to humanity to allow them to live in their own Time, not in the perpetual past in which some are still living. These are people who think Allah is restricted and can not guide humanity anymore to cope with the new demands of the future.

Admin

Reply,

There are more than 70% Ismailis who do not understand Gujrati, how come they will understand ginans.
Yes, I agree with your 3rd paragraph, Ismailis should be " IBNUL WAQT ",
there fore they should obey the farmans of Imam of the time( waqt ).

And for your information around 90% of ismailies donot understand Arabic. It canbe possible that 70% of the ismailies can't understand Gujrati, thats why our Great Pirs wrote Ginans is more than 20+ languages.

I remember the farman of Imam Sultan Mohd Shah that ( not exact words ).

Arbi samajhne walo k liye Quran behtreen hai, magar hamare hindustan k ismailiyo k liye pir saddardin ne Ginan likhe ha, unhe chaiye k wo Ginan Parhe.

These aren't exact word.

If Admin, Agakhani or Kmaherali know about this Farman then plz quote it here.

[junglikhan4]

There are more than 70% Ismailis who do not understand Gujrati, how come they will understand ginans.

Where have you taken above percentage? it is not right!

In USA many Gujarati learning classes have been schedule on and off in major cities to better understand ginans, this classes are scheduled keeping mind of younger generation and many kids join in it,
In India and specially in Mumbai and Gujarat area almost 99% Ismailis knows Gujarati.
In Pakistan seniors citizen who had migrated from India to Pakistan knows Gujarati very well! there are still many Ismailis who can speaks, writes and can read Gujarati in Pakistan, younger generation may have little Gujarati issues in Pakistan but this kind issues are in every country for younger generation.


Your above allegation and percentage is without any platform or any kind survey, which is absolutely wrong at least this time, it may be true after 10-15 years latter.

Reply,
I am talking of total Ismailis presently living on surface of earth approx. 15 millions, out of which 70% don't speak or understand Gujrati. In India and Pakistan hardly one million Ismailis are living and all are not Gujrati speaking. Those who migrated from India and pakistan and settled in Europe, USA, Canada, Australia or some other countries are almost half a million and almost 50% are unable to speak Gujrati. Now count the Ismaili heads in China, Central Asia, Middle East and other countries.They speak different languages. You have already admitted that younger generation is not well versed in Gujrati and down the road after 10/15 years the numbers will be less because mostly younger generation preferred to speak English.

[junglikhan4]

Yes Quran is easy tio understand for Arab speaking people and we have got the tafsir of the Quran from our Pirs in the Ginans which have therefore been equated to Farmans by our Imam.

So for us, the overwheilming majority of Ismailis who do not read and write Arabic, Farmans and their equivalent are part of the bolto Quran whch we can understand better than we understand Arabic and yet they contains the Wisdom of the Eternal Quran of Allah......

We obey the orders of the Prophet (PBUH) and therefore we consider that fresh guidance from Allah is given more importance for his Ibnul Wakht then old guidances which Allah in his al emcompassing Mercy gives to humanity to allow them to live in their own Time, not in the perpetual past in which some are still living. These are people who think Allah is restricted and can not guide humanity anymore to cope with the new demands of the future.

Admin

Reply,

There are more than 70% Ismailis who do not understand Gujrati, how come they will understand ginans.
Yes, I agree with your 3rd paragraph, Ismailis should be " IBNUL WAQT ",
there fore they should obey the farmans of Imam of the time( waqt ).

And for your information around 90% of ismailies donot understand Arabic. It canbe possible that 70% of the ismailies can't understand Gujrati, thats why our Great Pirs wrote Ginans is more than 20+ languages.

I remember the farman of Imam Sultan Mohd Shah that ( not exact words ).

Arbi samajhne walo k liye Quran behtreen hai, magar hamare hindustan k ismailiyo k liye pir saddardin ne Ginan likhe ha, unhe chaiye k wo Ginan Parhe.

These aren't exact word.

If Admin, Agakhani or Kmaherali know about this Farman then plz quote it here.

Reply,

Kid, you are good at maths, 90% don't understand Arabic, 70% don't understand Gujrati and for 30% pirs wrote ginans in 20+ languages. I am not a highly educated person like you, I know pirs wrote ginans in Gujrati, Sindhi/ Kachhi, Multani/Siraiki. Please mention the rest of other languages in which pirs wrote ginans. The key word is languages and not few words of any language.

You and Mr. AK has a habit of writing a farman or couplet of ginan and then calling fire fighters, Ramji, Premji, Maanji, Shivaji help, find the exact wordings of farman and ginan for us. Why don't you research first and then post.

[junglikhan4]

AAPEY MULLAH AAPEY QAZI
AAPEY PARHEY SO AAP NAMAZI ( Pir Sadruddin )

This couplet is from BHUJ NIRIJIN; PART # 24.

Thanks for the reference. The exact context of the verse is:

murakh je koee jaane naahee(n)
vaa(n) ko haal peechhaane naahee(n)...............................1

The foolish do not know anything(about Divine Love) and therefore cannot comprehend the state of the lover(peace).

rab ddhrashtt ku(n) aane naahee(n)
(deve seer saattaa ku aape naahee)
or kahe to maane naahee(n)........................................2

These people do not submit themselves to the vision of the Lord(or do not sacrifice their heads for the beloved) nor do they respond if told to.
eehaa(n) na buje maaee ne baap
seje khele aapohee aap............................................3

This state of the mystic lover cannot be comprehended even by his/her parents for he comfortably plays(this mystic game) by himself(i.e., it is a very personal path).

na ees maaee na ees baap
huvaa nira(n)jan aapohee aap......................................4

(For) He does not have a mother or father as He became the Unkowable by Himself.

aape mullaa aape kaazhee
aape padde so aap namaazee........................................5

He himself is the priest and He is the judge and He is the prayer leader and He is the performer of prayer.

From the above verse it is very clear that the term he refers to the mystic who has elevated himself to become God.

There is no way from the above verse you can conclude that everything is God.

Reply,

Please look at the 4th couplet, He does not has a mother or father as He became the unknowable by Himself. Now In the 5th couplet, when He became apparent, He took the form of Mullah, Qazi, pesh imam, and performer of namaz. Actually the mystic is describing the NIRANJAN.

[junglikhan4]

Quran came first and then Ginans. In Ismaili ta'limat Quran is superior than Ginans.
I have an innocent question for you; Would you like to call Hazar Imam as
Mullah Shah Karim because he interprets the Quran so the other mullahs too.
Please answer yes or no.

Yes, what is wrong with that. That is part of his role.

The Imams have existed since creation. So the Farmans are more important than the Qur'an according to your logic. Why are they done after the recitation of Qur'an and Ginan. As you said we must pay attention to the Farman being Ibn al Waqt.

Reply,

So you accepted that we can call Hazar Imam as Mullah Shah Karim and there is no harm in it. I dare not.
Hazar Imam has mentioned in preamble," Islam as revealed in Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal."
THE WORD ETERNAL MEANS FROM VERY BEGINNING.
It is my assertion that regarding tenets of Islam and ethical values Imam never make farman out side the Holy Quran.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad:
Is the data of bhuj niranjan pt 24.a part of withdrawn n banned ginans?

[deleted]

NO BANNED SHOULD B PERMITTED ON SITE WHERE MHI NAME IS IN PREAMBLE

[Admin]

Ya Ali madad:
Is the data of bhuj niranjan pt 24.a part of withdrawn n banned ginans?

There is no banned ginans. You are mistaken and you are misleading the people. You have been explained in the past and I will not repeat again.

I have been more than patient with your nonsense. if you are taking my patience for a weakness, you better change your assessment because I will not allow you to mislead people with statements that goes against the core of Hazar Imam's Farmans. Shouting on the roof "Ali Ali" and making a mockery of Imam's Farmans and Ginans is not acceptable.

[nuseri]

To Admin;Ya Ali Madad.

You have deleted 3 full postings n 80% of two in last few days.
Yes there are Ginans/ writings of Pirs ( I have heard of manhar granth etc) n others which was withdrawn or found unsuitable for reading can be termed as' banned.'
You know of that n also having them in your Data bank.
You are using his name in preamble n also boldly acting against his wish n orders related to those material.
I try write truth ,ask yourself.You are failing miserably in your objective.

[nuseri]

To Admin;Ya Ali madad.

You underestimated by using the word 'shouting thru roof'
With this puny act one only can reach our 20-50 people. It would ALI ALI all the way thru internet ,cable. TV, Satellites n Android n Apple APPs now and in near future.
Also in /as caller tunes on mobile phones

AHMED AL ALI BOLIYA.
PECHEE HONI HOI SO HOI REE.
( COME WHAT MAY).

[kmaherali]

So you accepted that we can call Hazar Imam as Mullah Shah Karim and there is no harm in it. I dare not.
Hazar Imam has mentioned in preamble," Islam as revealed in Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal."
THE WORD ETERNAL MEANS FROM VERY BEGINNING.
It is my assertion that regarding tenets of Islam and ethical values Imam never make farman out side the Holy Quran.

In my opinion one of the roles of the Imam is to interpret the faith. It is not the only role like other Mullas.

Yes the Holy Qur'an existed from the beginning. So what was it's form at the beginning? It was not the one revealed 1400 years ago!

The Imamat has also been since creation, hence Qur'an = Imam in batin.

[kmaherali]

Please look at the 4th couplet, He does not has a mother or father as He became the unknowable by Himself. Now In the 5th couplet, when He became apparent, He took the form of Mullah, Qazi, pesh imam, and performer of namaz. Actually the mystic is describing the NIRANJAN.

Yes he is describing the Nirinjan which he was tranformed into! So the Mulla and Qazi refers to the Nirinjan.

Remember our discussion was about whether God was everything as you stated and I refuted that it is no so from the Ginanic point of view.

[nuseri]

To Kmaherali:Ya Ali Madad.

I can recollect.others may correct or add on it.
names used by pirs/dai's for ALI are

Ali,Khudavind. Allah, Khudha.Satguru, Sahebji, Gurnar,Guruji. Awaal Akhir,
hari,Brahma,Mullah,Kazi,Imam,Noor,Zulfiqar,Mazhar,Quran,Ved Quran,Kaaba,Sami,Sultan,Shah ,Raja. Maharaj.Iswar..
Here are 25 n many more could be there.
Pir composed verses based on Audience profile,this could have been to Muslim who were not ismailis then.etc.

ALI STAYS AS WHAT HE IS. It the spirituality level of the person how he want to look up to him or down to him.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad.

How can you say that kmaherali has accepted of what you wrote.
he has acknowledges the verse of Pir as a faithful ismaili.
He has ONLY ACCEPTED HIS interpretation along with other verse being a part of it. and explained the baatin concept related to it.

Legally world wide.the word acknowledgement n accept have totally different meaning.
example: One has acknowledge a courier envelope but may not accept it content held in that envelope.

[ismaili103]

Pir Saddadin himself wrote in his Ginan that Pir use 20+ language and 40+ Raags.

From the day you are here in this forum you have only misconceptions i.e

Ginan is only for khoja, while Imam said Ginan is great tradition and every Ismaili should follow it.

Another one, Quran is superior than Ginan,but Imam equally treat both. Quran and Ginan are Farman of the Imam. Yeah I know you are Thinking how cone Ginan became Farman of Imam, but BACCHAY TJHE 100 JANAM LAG JAYE GE YE SAMAJHNE K LIYE K IMAM OR PIR KON HA.

I know some language of Ginan,

Gujrati , Sanskrit, Sindhi, Kachi, saraiki, Punjbi, Khojki, Balochi, hindi, Urdu, bengali, marathi etc Pir also use many native languages from the state of Gujrat, Rajhasthan, Sindh etc

Pir Shams in Bhram Prakash said that He built 100 jamatkhanas in China, it is possible that Pir had also used Chinese and central asian lingo in Ginans, dont Forget Missionary Kara Ruda once said that we have lost many of our Ginan in Migration, Disasters, no proper preservation etc,

He said Pirs wrote around 10 millions part or literature, but now we have only around 1 or 2 lakh parts of literature...sad but true.

[agakhani_1]

I am talking of total Ismailis presently living on surface of earth approx. 15 millions, out of which 70% don't speak or understand Gujrati.

Don't forget that ginans are created and composed keeping in mind only Jumpudwip Ismailis not the other parts Ismailis!! and Majority peoples from Indo-Pak areas speaks, writes and read Gujarati and that is the bottom line the main reason to compose ginans in Gujarati because that language was spoken in Jampudwip areas and the new converted Ismailis were illiterate they didn't know any other language like Arabic, Persian.

[kmaherali]

Don't forget that ginans are created and composed keeping in mind only Jumpudwip Ismailis not the other parts Ismailis!! and Majority peoples from Indo-Pak areas speaks, writes and read Gujarati and that is the bottom line the main reason to compose ginans in Gujarati because that language was spoken in Jampudwip areas and the new converted Ismailis were illiterate they didn't know any other language like Arabic, Persian.

Although Ginans were composed in Indian languages, they are applicable to all Ismailis as per Farman below.

"Many times I have recommended to my spiritual children that they should remember the Ginans, that they should understand the meaning of these Ginans and that they should carry these meanings in their hearts. It is most important that my spiritual children from wherever they may come should, through the ages and from generation to generation, hold to this tradition which is so special, so unique and so important to my jamat." Karachi, 16.12.1964

[agakhani_1]

Off course any ismailis can take benefits of Ginans if they read it! but I just wrote the main reason to compose ginans in Gujarati.

[zznoor]

Don't forget that ginans are created and composed keeping in mind only Jumpudwip Ismailis not the other parts Ismailis!! and Majority peoples from Indo-Pak areas speaks, writes and read Gujarati and that is the bottom line the main reason to compose ginans in Gujarati because that language was spoken in Jampudwip areas and the new converted Ismailis were illiterate they didn't know any other language like Arabic, Persian.

Even those who read, wright and understand Gujarati like myself cannot understand ginan written in Kacchi or Memony or Kathiawadi dialect. They would still need somebody to explain Ginan to them

[agakhani_1]

If you think Quran is answer then you are wrong because Quran is not complete either.and that question has been never solved for more than 14 centuriesz
I agree with you that we need translator and we Ismaili already have it! Our imam does that job when some one can not understand the meaning of ginans he or she ask our imam directly.
But if I do not understand sura fateha or Noor? Whom should I contact for more detail? Because there are many interpretation on these ayas whom to believe and whom not to believe is a big question mark for me.