Fasting

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:03 pm

agakhani wrote:Mazhar,

Here is another farman of SMS : which is supporting above farmans, which you intentionally left incomplete!

For a haquiqatis a whole year Rozas are compulsory and those Rozas are

1, Not to lie.
2, Not to cheats each other.
3, Not to backbiting to others.

The above and others (good deeds ) like these are a rozas for a true Ismailis but they do not have to keep these good deeds in only month of Ramadan but they must have to keep it for 360 days,
so, basically for Ismailis 360 days are rozas if, they do the good deeds and do not do any bad deeds!!!

So, Rozas are basicallly not only for 30 days and it is not necessay that we have to have keep inl month of Ramadan but for a true Muslims he must have to keep rozas for 360 days not in form of fasting but doing other good deeds, this is my personal opinion.

T

Reply,

I believe, Imam is always right. I my self consider fasting as means of purity of body, soul, and mind. Mostly in every religion fasting is compulsory. In Hindu religion there are 28 types of wurut, so is the case with Judaism and christianity, though in different forms. To fast or not to fast is a personal matter.
You have quoted in one of your posts, that you have 3rd eye through which you see Mazhar. I believe in universe every particle is MAZHAR of ALLAH.

BHE BHE LOCHAN SARV NEY VIDYA LOCHAN TRANN
SAPAT LOCHAN DHARAM NA TAMEY JUO VICHARI JANN

Vidyarathi tell me who install the 3rd eye in you. You install yourself or some plumber helped you.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:04 pm

In my post, you have missed my crucial quote, let me repeat it again. I wrote

In comparison of any mega cities of Canada, Houston is a lot bigger city. but here I think less then 0.5% of Ismaili population (may) keeps fasting in month of Ramadan.
But here we are Fasting on only "2 BEEJ DAYS" twice a year and in my thinking these two days fasting are the only compulsory fast in Ismailism.

As I, quoted earlier, if any Ismailis wants to keep fasting on Ramadan then it is totally up to him, he/she may be benefited for fasting !! but I don't fast on month of Ramadan. why?

Because!! Ismailis only follows what Imams tell them to do! but not to do what imam doing for himself or what his family doing!
this is as simple as this!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:52 pm

zznoor wrote:
Many Muslim including Ismailies do not do what Quran/Prophet/Immam tells them to do. They are Hippocrates

I think it is wrong to make such sweeping judgements about others especially in the holy month of Ramadhan!

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:05 pm

agakhani wrote:Thats it? but I have a list of other Shariya which are not possible to keep in this time:-

I, have a big list but I only point out only three Sahriyas (laughable) to just open your damn closed eyes!. Your answer will be appreciate.

1, A man can beat his wife for insubordination.

Sorry! to ask you but : Does your hubby beat you!? because this is shariya too!!

2, A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.

Do you think this is possible to marry infant girls who is only 9 years old! in this time?
All Shariyati Muslims should follow this because prophet Mohd already did that and whatever actin Mohd had taken is called Shariya!!

3, A woman can have 1 husband, but a man can have up to 4 wives

Is this possible in this modern time? again sorry to ask you but does your hubby has 4 wives?

Idiotic questions

One need not to follow Every action of Prophet.
If Prophet had cars or Airplanes he would have not travelled on donkey or camel.
Sunna is not fird on Muslim. Just learn and study about Islam instead of posing IDIOTIC questions.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:25 pm

Reply,

The mega city in which I live thousands of Khoja Ismailis fast in the month of Ramadhan. In the beginning the number was low, but as word was out that Imam and his family members fast in the month of Ramadhan the numbers became four fold. The Farman of MSMS on fasting in the month of Ramadhan is well known in our community that's why I gave only reference.

Mashah Allah

In my post, you have missed my crucial quote, let me repeat it again. I wrote
" Ismailis have double responsibility, first they have to fast in the month of Ramadhan and second they have to behave as a momin not to commit any sin whole year."

This not exclusive for Ismaili Muslims but for all Muslims. It is written in Quran and Hadith. Read Quran 6:151-153 and 17:23-39

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:39 pm

Idiotic questions

One need not to follow Every action of Prophet.
If Prophet had cars or Airplanes he would have not travelled on donkey or camel.
Sunna is not fird on Muslim. Just learn and study about Islam instead of posing IDIOTIC questions.[/quote]

ZZ Aadaab,

With your reference," One need not to follow every action or Prophet", I think you should be aware of the ayat," LAQAD KAAN FI RASULIKUM USWATUN HASANAH".

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:35 am

junglikhan4 wrote:Idiotic questions

One need not to follow Every action of Prophet.
If Prophet had cars or Airplanes he would have not travelled on donkey or camel.
Sunna is not fird on Muslim. Just learn and study about Islam instead of posing IDIOTIC questions.

ZZ Aadaab,

With your reference," One need not to follow every action or Prophet", I think you should be aware of the ayat," LAQAD KAAN FI RASULIKUM USWATUN HASANAH".[/quote]

33:21 Verily in the Messenger of Allah ye have
a good example....)

Yes Prophet was best example
Prophet prayed 5 times a day, many do not follow this example
He performed wadu before prayers if he was without wadu, many do not follow this example
He prayed Tahajjud prayers, many do not follow this example
He prayed Jumma , many do not follow this example

Prophet fasted in the month of Ramadan, many do not follow this example
Prophet regularly fasted on other days, many do not follow this example

Prophet performed Hujj, many do not follow this example or could not afford to do so.
He was extremely generous, many do not follow this example
He wore simple clothes and lived in simple hut, many do not follow this example
There are many example to follow and this crude brother is telling that marrying 9 year girl is Shariat?
Does he have any Idea what Sharia is? He better read up on "Islamic Sharia" before he spills his venom against Muslis who he calls Shariati!
Doe he have any idea what "Poligomy in Islam" is? He better read up on it before asking silly questions.
And to say this thing about Bibi Aisha, where did he get this? Give reference of book. Hadith etc. I am well read, I never ever read this.
Is it nice to post such questions?
Why this personal vendetta?

Sorry this is fasting thread, we better stick to it.
Admin, please delete this if you see fit.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:44 am

Mr. AK,
This is not a proper way of addressing a woman. Do not degrade your self.

Mr. Bahurupi,

Whatever I quoted above is written in all Suha Sitta Hadith books, even in Sahi Bukhari.

Mein nahi kahata 'HADISO" me likha hai yaaro!
BTW: I am just talking about shariyat! so what is wrong in it? if she can tell Ismailis Hippocrates then what other respect she deserve? tell her that first read the history properly if she wants to argue with me only copy and pasting is not enough to argue with Me! yeh dadhi aise hi safed nahi ki hai!!

Mazhar,

Dikha di ne apni asliyat!!
Aa gaye ne line pe!!
Woh kya lagati hai aapki?

Mr. Mazhar just mind your damn own business, I know who heck are you!? changing only names you can't hide your damn old shelf!!! You haven't change even after your account has been banned, you are still remain anti Ismaili propagandist.

And about my shelf!! I am way way above then you Mr. Abu Jahal!! so keep this in your mind for future reference.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:50 am

Sorry this is fasting thread, we better stick to it.
Admin, please delete this if you see fit.

Why you wants to take UTURN? why you wants to run away? why don't you want to face with me if you are true Shariyatis and brave?

Dar gayi na! himmat ho to samna kyo nahi karti!! fat gayi kya!?

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:50 am

Life of Prophet Mohammad is good example for us...True.

The Life of Prophet Definitely mean what is his behavior, attitude etc

We should follow masawaat, taqwa, imaandari, ufoo-e-dar goozar etc

Life of Prophet doesn't mean do every thing whatever he do. Action of Prophet can be beyond our imagination.

Those guys who are getting educations from highly ranked universities and then they grow beard, wear their trousers up, wearing hijaabs etc on the name of SUNNAT, are definitely illiterates who cant use their brain that at the time of prophet there was no barber to cut their beard, they travel in desert so they wear their trousers up, they were lived in the place heatwave is 110 F so they wear hijab to keep safe their head from heat.

Even here in Karachi when heatwave claims 1000 lives then even men use to cover their head by cloth or towel just like hijab becuz heatwave first attack your head and cause dehydration.

If Quran had revealed in Canada then SUNNAT will be definitely wear thick cloths, live in igloo ...

KEEP UR SELF UPDATED THATS ALL.

Post by **Admin** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:32 pm

ismaili103 wrote:
Even here in Karachi when heatwave claims 1000 lives then even men use to cover their head by cloth or towel just like hijab becuz heatwave first attack your head and cause dehydration.

I agree. I stayed some time in Afghanistan. I was covering myself and even hiding my face with a handkerchief when the sand storm (very frequent) was hitting us. Still we were ending eating dust inside our mouth and not to mention that our hairs were more dust than hairs... So many customs are regional and have nothing to do with religion.

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:08 pm

ismaili103 wrote:Life of Prophet Mohammad is good example for us...True.

The Life of Prophet Definitely mean what is his behavior, attitude etc

We should follow masawaat, taqwa, imaandari, ufoo-e-dar goozar etc

Life of Prophet doesn't mean do every thing whatever he do. Action of Prophet can be beyond our imagination.

Those guys who are getting educations from highly ranked universities and then they grow beard, wear their trousers up, wearing hijaabs etc on the name of SUNNAT, are definitely illiterates who cant use their brain that at the time of prophet there was no barber to cut their beard, they travel in desert so they wear their trousers up, they were lived in the place heatwave is 110 F so they wear hijab to keep safe their head from heat.

Even here in Karachi when heatwave claims 1000 lives then even men use to cover their head by cloth or towel just like hijab becuz heatwave first attack your head and cause dehydration.

If Quran had revealed in Canada then SUNNAT will be definitely wear thick cloths, live in igloo ...

KEEP UR SELF UPDATED THATS ALL.

Reply,

You are right when you wrote life of Prophet Muhammad is a good example for us. Quran says," indeed in Rasulullah for you have a good example". (33/21) After Rasul we believe in Imam, hence Imam is also an example for us to follow, because we are called followers of Hazar Imam. There fore he is our role model, not only him but his immediate family members also.
Regarding your growing of beard, at the time of Prophet Muhammad, there were barbers in Arab, Jews and christian societies. Even at time of of Greeks and Romans there were barbers. T o keep beard is sunnah and not fardh.
Before MSMS our every Imam and pirs were bearded. So beard is not a big issue.
You wrote,"If Quran had revealed in Canada----" Please not that our Imam has said,"Islam as revealed in holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind and is universal and eternal."
Regarding hijab, it is prescribed for women and not men. In subcontinent we usually call it 'DU PATTA', BUT SORRY TO SAY MOSTLY OUR WOMEN HAVE GOT RID OF IT. There is a famous couplet in Urdu;

BIBI WOH KIYA HUAA AAP KA DU PATTA
HUNS KE BOLI MARDU KI AQAL PE PAR GAYA.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:23 pm

Those guys who are getting educations from highly ranked universities and then they grow beard, wear their trousers up, wearing hijaabs etc on the name of SUNNAT, are definitely illiterates who cant use their brain

Those who grow beard, wear trousers up, are doing it baca use they say it is Sunna and so long they are not forcing you to do so why does it bother you ?

Have you been to MIT or Harvard lately, you will find many Muslim sisters in Hijab. Are they illiterate? USA is free country and you are free to practice your religion.

Please visit MIT mosque or MGH mosque you will find students of all sects reading Quran or praying. At MGH you will find Doctoes come and pray between their duties.
They are smart not nut cases.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:06 am

junglikhan4 wrote:You are right when you wrote life of Prophet Muhammad is a good example for us. Quran says," indeed in Rasulullah for you have a good example". (33/21) After Rasul we believe in Imam, hence Imam is also an example for us to follow, because we are called followers of Hazar Imam. There fore he is our role model, not only him but his immediate family members also.

There are prophetic traditions which indicate that we should not follow what the Prophet does.

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.183

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar:

Allah’s Apostle forbade al-Wisal. The people said (to him),"but you practice it?”He said, "I am not like you, for I am given food and drink by Allah.” (Qala: Inni lastu mithlikum).

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.184

Narrated Abu Sa’id:

That he had heard the Prophet saying, "Do not fast continuously (practice al-Wisal), and if you intend to lengthen your fast, then carry it on only till the Suhur (before the following dawn).”The people said to him, "But you practice (Al-Wisal), O Allah’s Apostle!”He replied, "I am not similar to you, for during my sleep I have One Who makes me eat and drink.”(Qala: Inni lastu ka Hay’atikum).

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.185

Narrated Aisha:

Allah’s Apostle forbade al-Wisal out of mercy to them. They said to him, "But you practice al-Wisal?”He said, "I am not similar to you, for my Lord gives me food and drink.”(Qala: Inni lastu ka Hay’atikum)

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.188

Narrated Abu Said al-Khudri:

Allah’s Apostle said, "Do not fast continuously day and night (practice al-Wisal) and if anyone of you intends to fast continuously day and night, he should continue till the Suhur time.”They said, "But you practice al-Wisal, O Allah’s Apostle!”The Prophet said,

"I am not similar to you; during my sleep I have One Who makes me eat and drink."

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:11 am

zznoor wrote: Those who are not capable to fast should not fast at all. Fast is not compulsory on sick, minor and travelers. There are provisions to atone for missed fast.

If that is the case then why be judgemental about people who cannot fast for health or whatever reasons they may have. It is best to leave it to Allah.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:08 am

Ya Ali Madad.
what is the total calories lost by delaying mid day meal for 5 hours?
It is hardly 300 calories of missing a 500ml bottle of soda drink.
1400 year back it could have been a very fair solution to build stamina for fighting in battles and also become pious along side it.
Almost 20% of world population afford to have one meal a day.
Are they living in today's reality of hell or heaven?
co relate all acts of past today's grim reality of macthing kind.
and talk about it and give solution to it.
dead time talk is waste of pages n dimag ka dahi.
I liked Ismaili103 posting to the point>

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:08 am

kmaherali wrote:
junglikhan4 wrote:You are right when you wrote life of Prophet Muhammad is a good example for us. Quran says," indeed in Rasulullah for you have a good example". (33/21) After Rasul we believe in Imam, hence Imam is also an example for us to follow, because we are called followers of Hazar Imam. There fore he is our role model, not only him but his immediate family members also.
There are prophetic traditions which indicate that we should not follow what the Prophet does.

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.183

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar:

Allah’s Apostle forbade al-Wisal. The people said (to him),"but you practice it?”He said, "I am not like you, for I am given food and drink by Allah.” (Qala: Inni lastu mithlikum).

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.184

Narrated Abu Sa’id:

That he had heard the Prophet saying, "Do not fast continuously (practice al-Wisal), and if you intend to lengthen your fast, then carry it on only till the Suhur (before the following dawn).”The people said to him, "But you practice (Al-Wisal), O Allah’s Apostle!”He replied, "I am not similar to you, for during my sleep I have One Who makes me eat and drink.”(Qala: Inni lastu ka Hay’atikum).

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.185

Narrated Aisha:

Allah’s Apostle forbade al-Wisal out of mercy to them. They said to him, "But you practice al-Wisal?”He said, "I am not similar to you, for my Lord gives me food and drink.”(Qala: Inni lastu ka Hay’atikum)

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.188

Narrated Abu Said al-Khudri:

Allah’s Apostle said, "Do not fast continuously day and night (practice al-Wisal) and if anyone of you intends to fast continuously day and night, he should continue till the Suhur time.”They said, "But you practice al-Wisal, O Allah’s Apostle!”The Prophet said,

"I am not similar to you; during my sleep I have One Who makes me eat and drink."

Does not mean fast is not enjoined on Muslims. Fast in Ramadan is enjoined on Muslims and is foundation of Islam.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:22 am

kmaherali wrote:
zznoor wrote: Those who are not capable to fast should not fast at all. Fast is not compulsory on sick, minor and travelers. There are provisions to atone for missed fast.
If that is the case then why be judgemental about people who cannot fast for health or whatever reasons they may have. It is best to leave it to Allah.

We discussing about fast being foundation of Islam. I do not ask Muslim brother/sister if he is fasting or not. I do not offer food or drink in Ramadan during fasting hours.fast is salient feature. Even non Muslim in my office respect it.

BTW fast on Beej Friday is part of Ismaili Sharia and all Ismailis have no problem fasting on those days. We have such a long discussion only becaus Ismailis are confused wether they are suppose to fast or not.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:33 am

zznoor wrote:Does not mean fast is not enjoined on Muslims. Fast in Ramadan is enjoined on Muslims and is foundation of Islam.

According to MSMS in his Memoirs, it is reasonable fasting provided the health is not damaged. Reasonable fasting varies from individual to individual and from place to place. The intention of the fast is foremost. Hence there is no confusion. Everyone fasts according to his/her capacity.

fayaz006 · Post by **fayaz006** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:27 am

zznoor wrote:
kmaherali wrote:
zznoor wrote: Those who are not capable to fast should not fast at all. Fast is not compulsory on sick, minor and travelers. There are provisions to atone for missed fast.
If that is the case then why be judgemental about people who cannot fast for health or whatever reasons they may have. It is best to leave it to Allah.
We discussing about fast being foundation of Islam. I do not ask Muslim brother/sister if he is fasting or not. I do not offer food or drink in Ramadan during fasting hours.fast is salient feature. Even non Muslim in my office respect it.

BTW fast on Beej Friday is part of Ismaili Sharia and all Ismailis have no problem fasting on those days. We have such a long discussion only becaus Ismailis are confused weather they are suppose to fast or not.

Fasting is NOT the foundation of Islam as per the Quran. Very few ayats are dedicated to it and there is at least one ayat that suggest that the ritual fast is a minor aspect of religion. The foundations of faith are Ethics. Most of the Quran is dedicated to them.

I think you need to look into your own backyard before worrying about Ismailis. Most Sunnis I know tell me that they barely see people under 45 in their Mosques in the US. Rather than focusing on the Sharia and dogmatically pounding the fast, your people would do well if they emphasized civil ethics.

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:06 pm

Fasting is NOT the foundation of Islam as per the Quran. Very few ayats are dedicated to it and there is at least one ayat that suggest that the ritual fast is a minor aspect of religion. The foundations of faith are Ethics. Most of the Quran is dedicated to them.

I think you need to look into your own backyard before worrying about Ismailis. Most Sunnis I know tell me that they barely see people under 45 in their Mosques in the US. Rather than focusing on the Sharia and dogmatically pounding the fast, your people would do well if they emphasized civil ethics.

Well explained Fayaz and it is true! no doubt about that.

Peoples always talking about fasting, fasting is this and fasting is that but they-never talk about the opposite side of fasting!

So, let me focus on that opposite sides of Fasting today!!! which is an eye opening facts for not only Muslims but all human beings!

About 25,000 people die of hunger or hunger-related causes every day, according to the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP).
While during ramadan month Muslims through away 50% more excess food which they could have saved because that food are that food they can not eat because that food are an excessive food which shouldn't had to cooked and this not eaten food enviously goes in trash!!
Does fasting is for to eat more foods and through away even more food in wastage or save foods in this holy month of Ramadan?
The reality is this : Muslims all over the world wasting more foods in month of Ramadan, is not shame on them when a persons dies every 3 seconds in hunger!!!

On the other hand, statistics by the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO), show that at least 1.3 billion tonnes of food is wasted every year around the world,, with the Middle East, including the UAE, recognized as a disproportionate contributor. It has been estimated that the whole of sub-Saharan Africa could be fed if a similar amount of food was saved!!! and have fed those hungry peoples of Africa!

According my Sunny turned 'NO RELIGION PERSON" "In month of Ramadan, peoples should have to save more foods keeping fasting but actually that is not happening at all, but peoples through away more foods in trash during this month! peoples are cooking more foods in this month in fear that food will come short for their family members"!!

One report shows that:

During Ramadan, the demand for beef, mutton, chicken and related meat products increases by almost 50% of the normal demand, which in itself is very high. Similar is the fate of other related food items like vegetables, fruits and dairy products etc. which are out of shelves quickly in the super markets and cold stores during special religious occasions.

Not only households! but Hotels and restaurants are also part of wastaging more food. During the holy month, clubs, restaurants and hotels tend to prepare more food than is consumed. Unfortunately, a large portion of this food usually ends up in landfill.

"DHARAM KE NAAM PE DHATING CHAL RAHA HAI MERE BAHI" !! says my above mentioned Sunny friend with smile on his face!!, "I have never kept roza since I realized the food wastage"

Shhh.... Don't tell Mullas/ molwis but the other day he brought 'NIHARI/NANS AND BIRYANI for us ( 12 peoples) which was cooked in his home!!

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:01 pm

zznoor wrote:
agakhani wrote:
Fasting is NOT the foundation of Islam as per the Quran. Very few ayats are dedicated to it and there is at least one ayat that suggest that the ritual fast is a minor aspect of foundation

[Shakir 2:183-185]
O you who believe! fasting is prescribed for you, as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may guard (against evil).

For a certain number of days; but whoever among you is sick or on a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; and those who are not able to do it may effect a redemption by feeding a poor man; so whoever does good spontaneously it is better for him; and that you fast is better for you if you know.

The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction; therefore whoever of you is present in the month, he shall fast therein, and whoever is sick or upon a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire for you difficulty, and (He desires) that you should complete the number and that you should exalt the greatness of Allah for His having guided you and that you may give thanks.

3 are enough for Muslims
I had enough this is end of fasting thread as far as I am concerned

agakhani_1 · Post by **agakhani_1** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:45 pm

When Idiots have no answer, they become low life and restore to personal Attecks

I, have many answers ready at any time, at any moments, at any minutes and whenever I need it! I am not stupid like you! who look in internet and dumps that coping and pasting garbage in this forum! With grace of my Molwa I, do have wast knowlege on almost every subject and every fields fyi I hardly use internet for any kind references.

I, do not keep any books or notes handy for any quick references when I posting any things, I, have good memory which help me to shut mouth off stupid peoples like you and few others, I consider it is a God gifts.

So, there is no question arise that I am out of answers of your nonsense question, keep this in your stupid mind forewer.

Ab to Man hi Gayi hogi!! Ke mujse panga lene se kya hota hai, kher,chhodo isko, Lekin apne "next door neighbor " (India me bhi aour USA me bhi) ko idiots kahne me tuje sharam nahi aati! La hol walla Kuwwat!

Who started first personal attacks?

Offcourse you have started to attacking personal attacks; saying pig, idiots and bla bla to me!! that is fine but ...... you recently told all Ismailis as a Hippocratic!! and in past you have used many inappropriates words towards our beloved mowla, which are not acceptable at all, in response all off these attacks I just politely defending my imam, Ismailis and my shelf. That's it.
Didn't I, warned you ki mujshe panga nahi lena warna !! samaj gayi na!. . I am same old agakhani, don't forget that.
You have not mentioned the time of our special Iftkhar party with your so called hubby yet!

fayaz006 · Post by **fayaz006** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:12 pm

zznoor wrote:
zznoor wrote:
agakhani wrote:
[Shakir 2:183-185]
O you who believe! fasting is prescribed for you, as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may guard (against evil).

For a certain number of days; but whoever among you is sick or on a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; and those who are not able to do it may effect a redemption by feeding a poor man; so whoever does good spontaneously it is better for him; and that you fast is better for you if you know.

The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction; therefore whoever of you is present in the month, he shall fast therein, and whoever is sick or upon a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire for you difficulty, and (He desires) that you should complete the number and that you should exalt the greatness of Allah for His having guided you and that you may give thanks.

3 are enough for Muslims
I had enough this is end of fasting thread as far as I am concerned
So your argument is out of the entire Quran, since 3 ayats are dedicated to fasting, it is a foundation of faith? Did you even try to study the Quran in its entirety or just googled fasting online and started this discussion? Ivy league education just went down a notch in my view.

Well i digress like i said the problems in your community are beyond fasting so its better that you end the discussion. BTW the following ayat appears a little before the ayats on fasting. I can make a better argument that the following ayat is the foundation of faith.

Godliness (and virtue) is not that you should turn your faces in the direction of the east and west; but he is godly who believes in God and the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the Prophets, and gives away of his property with pleasure, although he loves it, to relatives, orphans, the destitute, the wayfarer, and those who have to beg (or who need a loan), and for the liberation of slaves, and establishes the Prayer and pays the Prescribed Purifying Alms. And those (are godly) who fulfill their covenant when they have engaged in a covenant, and who are patient and persevering in misfortune, hardship, and disease, and at the time of stress (such as battle between the truth and falsehood). Those are they who are true (in their faith), and those are they who have achieved righteousness, piety and due reverence for God. (2-177)

If you would have mentioned fasting encourages self discipline, and self restrain is foundation of faith, i would have agreed. But alas the Sunni cannot be expected to think the shariat. The sunni blindly follows whereas the ismailis studies the meaning behind the shariat.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:59 pm

If you would have mentioned fasting encourages self discipline, and self restrain is foundation of faith, i would have agreed. But alas the Sunni cannot be expected to think the shariat. The sunni blindly follows whereas the ismailis studies the meaning behind the shariat.

Do not make Sunni Ismali issue.
Not all Sunnis are dumb and not all Ismailis study meaning behind Shariat.
Look at one of Ismaili poster, does he look like fasting 24/7/365?

How do you study meaning behind Salat, swam and Hujj if that is not in card for you.

Did you read I said major commandment for Muslims are Q 6:151-153 and Q 17:22-39.

Have nice Ramadan. I have to leave for Taravis soon. Please explain Ismaili meaning behind it.

Salaam

fayaz006 · Post by **fayaz006** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:46 pm

zznoor wrote:

Did you read I said
major commandment for Muslims are Q 6:151-153 and Q 17:22-39.

Have nice Ramadan. I have to leave for Taravis soon. Please explain Ismaili meaning behind it.

Salaam
Not one of the Ayats that you have quoted have any thing about fasting. Am i to understand that you concede the point that fast may not be the foundation of faith?
Whew Ivy league education may not be to bad after all. Wait if you already knew this than why start the argument? Just for the sake of arguing or focusing on what's wrong with Ismaili faith rather than your own? Well Ivy league education just went down a notch again. You are not doing a terribly good job of representing you Alma Matter.

Also i have no idea about what Taravis is?[/b]

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:00 pm

fayaz006 wrote:
zznoor wrote:

Did you read I said
major commandment for Muslims are Q 6:151-153 and Q 17:22-39.

Have nice Ramadan. I have to leave for Taravis soon. Please explain Ismaili meaning behind it.

Salaam
Not one of the Ayats that you have quoted have any thing about fasting. Am i to understand that you concede the point that fast may not be the foundation of faith?
Whew Ivy league education may not be to bad after all. Wait if you already knew this than why start the argument? Just for the sake of arguing or focusing on what's wrong with Ismaili faith rather than your own? Well Ivy league education just went down a notch again. You are not doing a terribly good job of representing you Alma Matter.

Also i have no idea about what Taravis is?[/b]
Reply,

To fast or not to fast is a personal matter. The basic question was, " Is fasting
compulsory in the moth of Ramadhan for a muslim". You know Quran, let me quote an ayat," LAKUM DINAKUM, WA LIYA DIN".

fayaz006 · Post by **fayaz006** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:07 pm

junglikhan4 wrote:
To fast or not to fast is a personal matter. The basic question was, " Is fasting
compulsory in the moth of Ramadhan for a muslim". You know Quran, let me quote an ayat," LAKUM DINAKUM, WA LIYA DIN".

Cannot agree more, you should however practice what you preach.

junglikhan4 · Post by **junglikhan4** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:32 pm

zznoor wrote:
kmaherali wrote:
junglikhan4 wrote:You are right when you wrote life of Prophet Muhammad is a good example for us. Quran says," indeed in Rasulullah for you have a good example". (33/21) After Rasul we believe in Imam, hence Imam is also an example for us to follow, because we are called followers of Hazar Imam. There fore he is our role model, not only him but his immediate family members also.
There are prophetic traditions which indicate that we should not follow what the Prophet does.

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.183

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar:

Allah’s Apostle forbade al-Wisal. The people said (to him),"but you practice it?”He said, "I am not like you, for I am given food and drink by Allah.” (Qala: Inni lastu mithlikum).

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.184

Narrated Abu Sa’id:

That he had heard the Prophet saying, "Do not fast continuously (practice al-Wisal), and if you intend to lengthen your fast, then carry it on only till the Suhur (before the following dawn).”The people said to him, "But you practice (Al-Wisal), O Allah’s Apostle!”He replied, "I am not similar to you, for during my sleep I have One Who makes me eat and drink.”(Qala: Inni lastu ka Hay’atikum).

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.185

Narrated Aisha:

Allah’s Apostle forbade al-Wisal out of mercy to them. They said to him, "But you practice al-Wisal?”He said, "I am not similar to you, for my Lord gives me food and drink.”(Qala: Inni lastu ka Hay’atikum)

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.188

Narrated Abu Said al-Khudri:

Allah’s Apostle said, "Do not fast continuously day and night (practice al-Wisal) and if anyone of you intends to fast continuously day and night, he should continue till the Suhur time.”They said, "But you practice al-Wisal, O Allah’s Apostle!”The Prophet said,

"I am not similar to you; during my sleep I have One Who makes me eat and drink."
Does not mean fast is not enjoined on Muslims. Fast in Ramadan is enjoined on Muslims and is foundation of Islam.

Reply,

Prophet Muhammad was a spiritual person and he had great stamina.
Quran says," Indeed in Rasulullah, there is a good example for you" 33/21.
When I say Prophet and Imam is best role model for us means we have to follow ethical values which they teach, preach and set example for others. Salat,zakat,saum, hajj, bandagi are the means to achieve the spiritual goal to wards fana fi Allah.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:35 am

junglikhan4 wrote:Reply,

Prophet Muhammad was a spiritual person and he had great stamina.
Quran says," Indeed in Rasulullah, there is a good example for you" 33/21.
When I say Prophet and Imam is best role model for us means we have to follow ethical values which they teach, preach and set example for others. Salat,zakat,saum, hajj, bandagi are the means to achieve the spiritual goal to wards fana fi Allah.

The Prophet and the Imams have the greatest stamina, which mortals like us cannot emulate. An ordinary person cannot run marathon race unless he is trained for that. Similarly Pirs have great stamina. In one of his Farmans MSMS said, that Pir Sadardeen used to perform bandagi for 16 hours! Ordinary murids cannot emulate that! The Peers and Imams have already attained the final station, they do not need to purify themselves through Ibadat.

Hence we ordinary mortals need Ibadat for purification according to the guidance of the Pirs and Imams. We follow what they teach us but not what they do.

A marathon runner can teach you how to improve your stamina, but you cannot run like him if you are not trained for that.