Imam's Farman Regarding Children

[sam156]

YAM to all,

I need a reference regarding a farman as i heard others referencing it. its about Children in Jamat Khana, it goes like this as others say it,
==
If children are making noises or disturbing parents in Jamat Khana during prayer times then the parents should not feel ashamed of it.
==
I need an actual referrence if any one have it. Why i am asking about it?
I am father of a 2 years old Son (and other jamati members with same situations too), and when we go to JK, our children make noise or disturb & volunteers would always ask to keep quite (usual) and we take our kids out with us so that Jamat should not be disturbed, although there is a place in Ladies section where kids can be staying with mothers but if they make a noise again the volunteers would rush to shut them up. This has resulted me and some other members to keep our kids with us and stay out of prayer hall in the foyer area. There is a garden besides JK (inside JK premises) and during DUA times volunteers have decided (in a recent meetint) to not allow children to go there so that they should not make any disturbance. There is a kids corner (professionally made) section which always remain closed even after asking for Keys.
I have asked Mukhi Saheb and Council member regarding this issue and i have no answer so far, and i have seen one Jamati member (a volunteer himself) left his kids and their mother at home while he came to JK to avoid any confrontation of this new decision by volutneers captain for which this particular member had objected but with no results(heartening).

I am worried because of this (as other members too) as i am now left with the only option to leave my Child alone at home, which i cannot, thus resulting me and others being forced to not attend JK just because of a NON ISSUE.

So if i get this reference i can easily talk to Mukhi Saheb and related members to resolve this issue for the better result of Jamat.
With Regards and YAM

Saleem

[agakhani]

As per my understanding there is no farman of any imams that you can leave your kids at home or you stay home for babysitting them! sound like I am discouraging you but I haven't read any farmans about kids noise!! performing Dua daily is our fundamental principal in our faith, so I would suggest you even your kid makes noise you should go JK and perform dua over there!. I hear big crying noise of many kids in JK where I goes but so far nobody has takes any objection for this kind noise, and I have seen many times that many ladies brings their 1 month old kids in JK; same way we have also taken our 3 kids in JK after taking bayat!

[Admin]

I agree, kid's cry should not be a concern in Jamatkhana. If they cry we should be tolerant.

However there is a Farman saying that you should put the kids in bed by 7:30pm and this will help the kids grow better in help physically and intellectually. So unless Dua time is around 6pm like in some countries in some seasons, kids should be put in bed during JK time.

[zznoor]

There is a Hadith of Prophet SAW
When prophet was praying one of his grand kid climbed on his back while he was in Sujud. Prophet stayed in sujud until kid was stasfied and climbed down. I will IA find hadith and post it.

[zznoor]

It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) carried a small girl whilst he was praying, picking her up when he stood up and putting her down when he prostrated (sujood). This was reported by al-Bukhaari and Muslim from Abu Qutaadah al-Ansaari: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to pray whilst he was carrying Umaamah, the daughter of Zaynab bint Rasool-Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). According to the report of Abu’l-‘Aas ibn Rabee’ah ibn ‘Abd Shams, when he prostrated he put her down, and when he stood up he picked her up.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 486, and Muslim, no. 844).

It was also reported that he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) allowed a small boy to ride on his shoulders and he still completed the prayer. This was reported by ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Shaddaad from his father: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came out to lead us in either Maghrib or ‘Ishaa’ one night, and he was carrying Hasan or Husayn. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came forward and put (the child) down, then he said Takbeer and started to pray. During the prayer, he prostrated and made his prostration long. My father said: ‘I raised my head and I saw the child on the back of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) whilst he was prostrating, so I returned to my prostration.’ When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) finished praying, the people said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, during your prayer you prostrated for so long that we thought something had happened or that you were receiving Revelation.’ He said, ‘Nothing at all happened, but my son was riding on my back and I did not want to disturb him until he had had enough.’” (Narrated by al-Nisaa’i, no. 1192; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani – may Allaah have mercy on him – in Saheeh Sunan al-Nisaa’i, 1/246).

[Admin]

There is a Hadith of Prophet SAW
When prophet was praying one of his grand kid climbed on his back while he was in Sujud. Prophet stayed in sujud until kid was stasfied and climbed down. I will IA find hadith and post it.

That was a very special kid. Why no name? Is it because he was Prophet's gransdson, son of Hazrat Ali?

[zznoor]

There is a Hadith of Prophet SAW
When prophet was praying one of his grand kid climbed on his back while he was in Sujud. Prophet stayed in sujud until kid was stasfied and climbed down. I will IA find hadith and post it.

That was a very special kid. Why no name? Is it because he was Prophet's gransdson, son of Hazrat Ali?

As per hadith it was either Hussein or Hassan. He also prayed carrying grand daughter. Please spare cotraversy. Sunnis also love and respect prophets daughters, Hz Ali and grand kids.

Please, mainstream Muslim do not hate Ahl e baits. They just do not worship them like Shia.

[sam156]

I saw your reference at http://www.maaref-foundation.com/englis ... 2bekin.htm

I am not here to question importance of any of Panjtan and their relation to our Beloved Prophet (PBUH).

1. I am aware of the prolonged prostration Prophet PBUH, and it was Hazrat Imam Hussain AS, and Hazrat Hassan AS on many occasions : ref
A Brief Biography of Imam Husayn (a.s.) By Mohammed Raza Dungersi Page 6

2. Our Beloved Prophet (PBUH) used to prolong his Sajda: Reference
" A’ishah Siddiqa (radiAllahu anha) narrates that The Prophet (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) used to prolong the prostration to such an extent that one could recite fifty verses (of the Qur’an) before he would lift his head [Sahih al-Bukhari] "

ref: http://www.alahazrat.net/islam/excellen ... eemain.php

there are countless references (above link) to importance of Panjtan and their value, i am just an ordinary Ismaili Muslim trying to get a specific answer

There are also reference to situations when Our Beloved Prophet (PBUH) was delivering Sermon and when Imam Hussain (AS) Fell and The Prophet (PBUH) abandoned the sermon to attend HIM and so on, so please do not relate my issue with them,

I want to keep it to our our Ismaili Imam's (AS) related reference (if any)

thanks for understanding

Saleem

[mahebubchatur]

I am quoting the following 2 Farmans.

In addition to quoting them to your Mukhi and Kamadia Sahebans, you must also give them suggestions and they must make every effort to make sure this is addressed. One of their primary responsibility is to make every effort for everyone to attend JK regularly.

For example have a baby sitter (volunteer), in an area designated if needed.

Children making noise is natural and wonderful as Imam says. A reason to smile as Imam says.


Montreal Sunday 19th November 1978 – This applies to Jamat Khannas where we go for deedar every day and Mukhi is representing the Imam and Imam’s Amr – Noor of Imam.

“My beloved spiritual children,

I will give you My Farman speaking without the microphone, because I do not think it is working.

I would like to begin My Farman with the matter that has nothing to do with Lashkar. But I have just seen a very young spiritual child leave because that spiritual child was crying. And I sometimes am concerned for mothers in My Jamat, when they come for a Mulaqat and their babies cry, and they are apprehensive that their babies are creating a disturbance for the Jamat or for the Imam. And I would like to make today a very short Farman about that matter.
No mother should ever feel embarrassed, or worried or unhappy when their babies cry in the Mulaqat or in front of the Imam. Because when Allah gives life, the first thing that happens is that the lungs move and then the baby cries. And that is a wonderful sign that no mother should ever apprehend..”

Nairobi 13th October 1959
“..I simply say that if you have suggestions, do not hesitate to make them. If we ask for suggestions, it is because that it is felt that suggestions are the best way that we have of adapting to the needs of the community. You will express your needs, now your fathers and your grandfathers will express their needs and your children, those who are vocal and more vocal then simply crying, will, if they can, express their needs and if not, it is for you and your parents to interpret what will be their needs in the future. In other words, you cannot just build an institution on one particular group..”.

[sam156]

Extremely informative,

Thanks for sharing, and stay Blessed

[mahebubchatur]

I also sent a copy to all ITREBS and hope copies will be given to all Mukhis & Kamadia Sahebans, to also read in Jamat Khannas to remind the Jamat, volunteers and to reassure mothers & or fathers who come with babies.

[Admin]

I am speaking to you by means of an electro-magnetic tape-recording machine, but I want you to listen as if I am standing here and speaking to you in this room.

.....


There are many ways in which parents and teachers can co-operate for the benefit of the children. For example what time did your child go to bed last night? If it was later than eight o'clock, something was wrong. Children who are under ten years old should have said their prayers and be asleep at half past seven, whenever possible. I know this will sometimes create difficulties for the mothers, but you should do your utmost to overcome this. If your children are tired when they reach school the next morning, they cannot possibly do their work properly and more than this, you endanger both their health and their growth. The mothers who go to Jamatkhanas at night should see that their children are in bed before they leave.

Recorded Farman sent to the East African Jamat on 12 October 1957

[Admin]

"Those amongst you who are parents, should remember that children under the age of 10 must be in bed by half past seven at night. If not, when the children go to school the next morning, they are tired. Secondly, a young child with insufficient rest does not grow to its normal height nor is his health strong when he becomes a man. Thirdly, if a man's body is tired then he is prone to suffering from germs and disease."

Dar es Salam 28 Nov. 1957