Excerpt from the Usul-e Din firman made by Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah (a.s.) in Dar-es-Salaam on 29-9-1899
"Those who have only superficial knowledge of the faith have fantastic notions about me. They believe my job is to heal the sick. This is not my task. My task is to show you the Way to the Truth (Haqqiqat), so that you may achieve your real destiny, which is the state of fanâfillâh. Fanâ stands for 'annihilation', fi meaning 'in' and Allah being 'God'. To be fanâfillâh is to lose oneself in God's Essence."
Imam and Imamat
How beautifully Maulana Sultan Muhammad Shah says:shiraz.virani wrote:Excerpt from the Usul-e Din firman made by Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah (a.s.) in Dar-es-Salaam on 29-9-1899
"Those who have only superficial knowledge of the faith have fantastic notions about me. They believe my job is to heal the sick. This is not my task. My task is to show you the Way to the Truth (Haqqiqat), so that you may achieve your real destiny, which is the state of fanâfillâh. Fanâ stands for 'annihilation', fi meaning 'in' and Allah being 'God'. To be fanâfillâh is to lose oneself in God's Essence."
آتش به جان افروختن
از بهر جانان سوختن
از من بایست آموختن
این کار ها کاری من است
Translation
How to Kindle a fire in the soul
And burn oneself for one's beloved
Should be learnt from me
As these are my duties
YAM ladies and gents this post had me thinking all week of the notion of Imamat. I want your thoughts on my thinking 
We know from the Quran that it is referred to as Book, Guide, and a record. Furthermore the Quran is guarded by God himself. Also the Quran has been around since the beginning. The copy I have has been scribbled with my notes and has been highlighted. Therefore I guard the copy that I poses, I can choose to burn it if I wish.
The Quran also refers to the word Imam as a leader, guide, book and a register. What if instead of a written book the Quran is the Imam. That is the imam has been on the world since the dawn of man. The institution of Imamat is guarded by God himself. What if all the interpreters of the written book were correct. The Quran is our Guide,our Record. What if the Quran is the Imam?
We know from the Quran that it is referred to as Book, Guide, and a record. Furthermore the Quran is guarded by God himself. Also the Quran has been around since the beginning. The copy I have has been scribbled with my notes and has been highlighted. Therefore I guard the copy that I poses, I can choose to burn it if I wish.
The Quran also refers to the word Imam as a leader, guide, book and a register. What if instead of a written book the Quran is the Imam. That is the imam has been on the world since the dawn of man. The institution of Imamat is guarded by God himself. What if all the interpreters of the written book were correct. The Quran is our Guide,our Record. What if the Quran is the Imam?
On that note, what do you say to those who also consider Ali to be God?Admin wrote:You can remove from your sentence the "What if" because truly our Imam, THE NOOR is "The Quran."
As said Imam Ali at Jagan e Siffin, "I am the Speaking Quran". People may agree or disagree but it is recorded in history that Imam Ali made that declaration.
So now Ali is the Qur'an who is guarded by God, and at the same time Ali is also Allah?
From Speech of MHIAdmin wrote:You can remove from your sentence the "What if" because truly our Imam, THE NOOR is "The Quran."
As said Imam Ali at Jagan e Siffin, "I am the Speaking Quran". People may agree or disagree but it is recorded in history that Imam Ali made that declaration.
Let me quote MHICONFERENCE ON SEERAT AT KARACHI
Karachi, Pakistan
Friday, March 12, 1976
http://ismaili.net/speech/s760312.html
In the face of this changing world, which was once a universe to us and is now no more than an overcrowded island, confronted with a fundamental challenge to our understanding of time, surrounded by a foreign fleet of cultural and ideological ships which have broken loose, I ask, “Do we have a clear, firm and precise understanding of what Muslim Society is to be in times to come?” And if, as I believe, the answer is uncertain, where else can we search than in the Holy Quran, and in the example of Allah’s last and final Prophet?There is no justification for delaying the search for the answer to this question by the Muslims of the world, because we have the knowledge that Islam is Allah’s final message, the Quran His final book and Mohammed His last Prophet. We are blessed that the answers drawn from these sources guarantee that neither now, nor at any time in the future will we be going astray.
And if, as I believe, the answer is uncertain, where else can we search than in the Holy Quran, and in the example of Allah’s last and final Prophet?There is no justification for delaying the search for the answer to this question by the Muslims of the world, because we have the knowledge that Islam is Allah’s final message, the Quran His final book and Mohammed His last Prophet.
Here, which Quran he refers to?
Uthman's Quran (as per Farman it is incomplete and corrupted) or himself "the Bolta Quran"?
"Example of Allah's last messenger"
What does he mean?
Sunna as recorded by various scribes? Or example of Prophet and 49 Imamas?
Points to ponder!
Points to ponder indeed.
However for me at least one of those controversies that has been bugging me has been resolved. We all will have a different spiritual journey. But any thing physical has to die or be changed in order for it to survive. I cant think of a single physical phenomenon that will remain eternal and not change. In this sense the physical copy of the Quran, the physical shariats of Muslims or any Religion can be destroyed, altered or changed, no?
If the institution of Imamat was purely physical it would have been destroyed or altered by now, we see this with the 12ers, Bohras etc. The institution as per the Quran is until the end of time, therefore it must exist in the spiritual realm. Now how does it exist would be the question? The admin pointed to Surah Noor, but then what is the Noor? None of us in the world today would understand the true Arabic that was spoken during the Prophet's time. Languages change, so if the written Quran is truly the Book how can it guide completely the modern generation.
More points to ponder zz, at least for me, one controversy in the heart laid to rest, another begins. Welcome to religion i guess.
However for me at least one of those controversies that has been bugging me has been resolved. We all will have a different spiritual journey. But any thing physical has to die or be changed in order for it to survive. I cant think of a single physical phenomenon that will remain eternal and not change. In this sense the physical copy of the Quran, the physical shariats of Muslims or any Religion can be destroyed, altered or changed, no?
If the institution of Imamat was purely physical it would have been destroyed or altered by now, we see this with the 12ers, Bohras etc. The institution as per the Quran is until the end of time, therefore it must exist in the spiritual realm. Now how does it exist would be the question? The admin pointed to Surah Noor, but then what is the Noor? None of us in the world today would understand the true Arabic that was spoken during the Prophet's time. Languages change, so if the written Quran is truly the Book how can it guide completely the modern generation.
More points to ponder zz, at least for me, one controversy in the heart laid to rest, another begins. Welcome to religion i guess.
I agree with you Fayaz : quran does not guide completely to morden generation nor it will guide to future generations.period.
Therefore we need some one who can guide us in this time and also guides future generations, Ismailis and many others also believes that there should be an imam present all the time after end of nabuwat. And that is our imam.
Question:
Do you think or consider quran as Allah's noor? so quran is enough for every solution? Or
Do you think quran is incomplete because it is not satisfies every one means quran is silent? ( and that is true that there are no answers of many morden time arising questions in quran ) so how you compare quran with MHI. who considers themselves as a Bolta quran since Jange Sikim, these wor first uttered by H.Ali and then after all imams told us the same!
Therefore we need some one who can guide us in this time and also guides future generations, Ismailis and many others also believes that there should be an imam present all the time after end of nabuwat. And that is our imam.
Question:
Do you think or consider quran as Allah's noor? so quran is enough for every solution? Or
Do you think quran is incomplete because it is not satisfies every one means quran is silent? ( and that is true that there are no answers of many morden time arising questions in quran ) so how you compare quran with MHI. who considers themselves as a Bolta quran since Jange Sikim, these wor first uttered by H.Ali and then after all imams told us the same!
zznoor wrote:
Name place, date and audience where present Imam announced "I am BOLTA Quran"
The present Imam does not have to say this, Farmans of the previous Imam are Farmans of the present Imam in so far as they have not been changed by subsequent Imams. That is a basic principle in Ismailism which you never understood and which has been reminded to you again and again. Only Allah knows why you play dumb all the time here on this subject.
Please read the whole thread. The place and event have already been given just a day ago. Perhaps you missed it because you are not aware of Islamic history.
For one, zznoor, I would really want to know if you do not understand or you just pretend not to understand.
I urge you to first read the thread and do not waste everyone's time asking again and again for questions that have already been answered.
Admin has beautifully explained it above so, I do not want to post it here again and again but I would like to draw your attention on one thing:Name place, date and audience where present Imam announced "I am BOLTA Quran"
It is our Ismaili belief that, any farman uttered by any imam at any time, stays valid until another imam change it or tell us not to follow!
because we have the knowledge that Islam is Allah’s final message, the Quran is final book and Mohammed His last Prophet. because we have the knowledge that Islam is Allah’s final message, the Quran His final book and Mohammed His last Prophet.
He said in front of Muslim leaders
the Quran is final book
He did not say Quran in my head is final book
Does he have to say this to Jamat also to nullify previous Farman?
Did he practice Taqiya in front of Muslim leaders?
He said in front of Muslim leaders
the Quran is final book
He did not say Quran in my head is final book
Does he have to say this to Jamat also to nullify previous Farman?
Did he practice Taqiya in front of Muslim leaders?
Admin,
She is pretend not to understand since she joined in this forum! And I bet you she will not in future, I guess she has joined in this forum more than 3 years and since then she is playing a game, lieing in every other post and she has not look behind in criticizing we Ismailis.
I reminded everyone in this forum about her mission but unfortunately no body has taken any step to stop her, she is an uncrowned queen in this forum! No doubt about that even every bodies knows that she is coming in this forum to do propaganda against Ismailis.
BTW:- She is in her last stage of suicidal mission,"maro ya maaro" because she has totally failed in her agenda to harm the iman of Ismailis. I think she is in wrong place for her mission.
She is pretend not to understand since she joined in this forum! And I bet you she will not in future, I guess she has joined in this forum more than 3 years and since then she is playing a game, lieing in every other post and she has not look behind in criticizing we Ismailis.
I reminded everyone in this forum about her mission but unfortunately no body has taken any step to stop her, she is an uncrowned queen in this forum! No doubt about that even every bodies knows that she is coming in this forum to do propaganda against Ismailis.
BTW:- She is in her last stage of suicidal mission,"maro ya maaro" because she has totally failed in her agenda to harm the iman of Ismailis. I think she is in wrong place for her mission.
Let us keep personal attacks out. JAKAdmin wrote:She is no queen. Everyone knows that her arguments do not hold water and she is wasting time here.
Everybody shoute note this and reflect on it
The source of authority of the Imamat is interpreted by Ismaili Muslims as being explicitly stated within the Quran and they also believe the Quran alone provides its framework. In a sermon delivered during the reign of Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah the rights and responsibilities between the Imam and his following are explained:
"The Imam has not the option to reduce the rights of his flock, nor is the flock to decrease the rights of their Imam. Among the rights of the flock against their Imam is the maintaining of the Book of God and the Sunna of His Prophet, may God bless him and his family, and restitution from those who treat them unjustly for those so treated, and from the powerful among them for the weak, from the noble of them for the lowly, investigating their manner of life and the differing conditions of it, looking solicitously upon his dependants in his efforts, watching over them with his eye. For He, great and glorious is He, concerning what He praised of the character of His Prophet and His Messenger said: ‘There has come to you a messenger from among yourselves; a sorrow that befalls you grieves him; he is anxious concerning you; with the believers he is kind and compassionate’ [Q. 9: 128]. When he does that, the flock should revere him, honor him and extend assistance to him, standing prepared and ready, on behalf of what is right according to the book of God and the Sunna of His Prophet, may God bless him and his family."
Well if we are down to coping and pasting to make minor points, here are some quotes to consider admin's and my position.
"Since my grandfather, the last Aga Khan, died, I have been the bearer of the Nur – a word which means ‘The Light’. The Nur has been handed down in direct descent from the Prophet."
Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni Aga Khan IV (Ismaili Gnosis)
“I am the meaning of Ramadan; I am Laylat al-Qadr mentioned in the Mother of the Book. My utterance is decisive, for I am Surah al-Hamd. I am the purpose of prayer itself, whether at home or when travelling. I am the purpose of fasting, and the sacred anniversaries in the months of the year.”
- Imām ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib (Ismaili Gnosis)
After doing my own research on this forum as well as many sources it is my belief the "Noor" is the Quran. Ie it is The Light, it is The Guide, it shows the Way. The Quran is part of God, therfore the Imam is also part of God (spiritually), the physical imam will pass away.
However for some below quote might be more appropriate.
“Our teaching is difficult, particularly arduous, exasperating, distressing. Offer it to people in small quantities. To those who acknowledge it, tell more, but avoid telling more to him who denies it.”
Imam ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib (Ismaili Gnosis)
This should put the matter to rest i hope
"Since my grandfather, the last Aga Khan, died, I have been the bearer of the Nur – a word which means ‘The Light’. The Nur has been handed down in direct descent from the Prophet."
Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni Aga Khan IV (Ismaili Gnosis)
“I am the meaning of Ramadan; I am Laylat al-Qadr mentioned in the Mother of the Book. My utterance is decisive, for I am Surah al-Hamd. I am the purpose of prayer itself, whether at home or when travelling. I am the purpose of fasting, and the sacred anniversaries in the months of the year.”
- Imām ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib (Ismaili Gnosis)
After doing my own research on this forum as well as many sources it is my belief the "Noor" is the Quran. Ie it is The Light, it is The Guide, it shows the Way. The Quran is part of God, therfore the Imam is also part of God (spiritually), the physical imam will pass away.
However for some below quote might be more appropriate.
“Our teaching is difficult, particularly arduous, exasperating, distressing. Offer it to people in small quantities. To those who acknowledge it, tell more, but avoid telling more to him who denies it.”
Imam ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib (Ismaili Gnosis)
This should put the matter to rest i hope
zznoor wrote:Quran describes one of qualities of Prophet Muhammadfayaz006 wrote:Well if we are down to coping and pasting to make minor points, here are some quotes to consider admin's and my position.
"Since my grandfather, the last Aga Khan, died, I have been the bearer of the Nur – a word which means ‘The Light’. The Nur has been handed down in direct descent from the Prophet."
Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni Aga Khan IV (Ismaili Gnosis)
“I am the meaning of Ramadan; I am Laylat al-Qadr mentioned in the Mother of the Book. My utterance is decisive, for I am Surah al-Hamd. I am the purpose of prayer itself, whether at home or when travelling. I am the purpose of fasting, and the sacred anniversaries in the months of the year.”
- Imām ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib (Ismaili Gnosis)
After doing my own research on this forum as well as many sources it is my belief the "Noor" is the Quran. Ie it is The Light, it is The Guide, it shows the Way. The Quran is part of God, therfore the Imam is also part of God (spiritually), the physical imam will pass away.
However for some below quote might be more appropriate.
“Our teaching is difficult, particularly arduous, exasperating, distressing. Offer it to people in small quantities. To those who acknowledge it, tell more, but avoid telling more to him who denies it.”
Imam ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib (Ismaili Gnosis)
This should put the matter to rest i hope
And again cut and paste material. Article is long and links are not permitted.
Quran on Prophet Muhammad
As Muslims, our belief in Islam is not complete until we obey Allah and His Prophet (s). Allah commands us to do so in the same verse in the Quran:
“And obey Allah and the messenger (Muhammad (S))… (Quran, Surah Al-Maeda:92)
Allah also told us about the excellence of the prophet’s (s) character in the following verse:
“And Verily. for you (Muhammad (S)) are on an exalted (standard of) character” (Quran, Surah Al-Qalam:4).
However, we are also not to elevate the prophet (s) to a level beyond the standard that Allah set for him and we are not to overstep the mark with regard to what the Quran states about the message and humanity of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).
For example, it is not permissible to describe the prophet (s) (as many mistakenly do) as being noor (light) or as casting no shadow, or to say that he was created from light. Rather this is a kind of exaggeration which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) forbade when he said:
“Do not exaggerate about me as was exaggerated about ‘Eesa ibn Maryam. Say: the slave of Allah and His Messenger.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6830.)These are exaggeration which has no basis in Quran or Sunnah of prophet."Since my grandfather, the last Aga Khan, died, I have been the bearer of the Nur – a word which means ‘The Light’. The Nur has been handed down in direct descent from the Prophet."
Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni Aga Khan IV (Ismaili Gnosis)
“I am the meaning of Ramadan; I am Laylat al-Qadr mentioned in the Mother of the Book. My utterance is decisive, for I am Surah al-Hamd. I am the purpose of prayer itself, whether at home or when travelling. I am the purpose of fasting, and the sacred anniversaries in the months of the year.”
- Imām ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib (Ismaili Gnosis)
This is POV of majority of Ummah. This should put the matter to rest from my side,i hope
Salaam brother.
So what's your questions? I don't see what's the problem here. You seem to concur with the above, and yet you contradict us?
Just so that i have an understanding of our Sunni brothers and sisters. Is it your view ZZ and consequently the view of the Sunnis, that Prophet was not the bearer of God's Light, "The Light", God's "Nur" ? Would the elevation of the prophe above the rest of us be considered exaggeration by the Sunnis? I would just like to understand the Sunni position on this issue. No copy and paste this time please, would just like your own opinion on the matter
Thanks
Thanks
I would just like to understand the Sunni position on this issue. No copy and paste this time please, would just like your own opinion on the matter
This is Shia forum we do not want to know what Sunny thinks? if you have interest to know then ask ZZNoor she can send private message for your query.
BTW:- I, do not see any different between you and Tret if you are not the same person! the reason of my this saying is I am seeing lots of similarity in writing, in thinking, and comments! between you and Tret the thing which make me irate is the question you asked ZZNoor above about Sunny opinion which was asked by Tret many time before! and to ZZNoor.
Agakhani on your first point i dont know whether the admin shares your views. If the admin does then ill be more then happy to oblige and send private messages on the above matter.agakhani wrote:I would just like to understand the Sunni position on this issue. No copy and paste this time please, would just like your own opinion on the matter
This is Shia forum we do not want to know what Sunny thinks? if you have interest to know then ask ZZNoor she can send private message for your query.
BTW:- I, do not see any different between you and Tret if you are not the same person! the reason of my this saying is I am seeing lots of similarity in writing, in thinking, and comments! between you and Tret the thing which make me irate is the question you asked ZZNoor above about Sunny opinion which was asked by Tret many time before! and to ZZNoor.
On your second point you maybe correct, i and Tret maybe the same .................... or are we????? Keep pondering agakhani, who knows, you may be up to something
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shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
wow !!!....Almost over 100+ replies and still most of you are running in circles
Mawlana Hazar Imam tackled the issue in London, UK on October 19, 2003 as following…
“…Clearly the intellectual development of the umma, is, and should remain, a central goal to be pursued with urgency if we wish the Muslim world to regain its rightful place in world civilisation. Today, any reasonably well-informed observer would be struck by how deeply this brotherhood of Muslims is divided. On the opposite sides of the fissures are the ultra-rich and the ultra-poor; the Shi‘a and the Sunni; the theocracies and the secular states, the search for normatisation versus the appreciation of pluralism; those who search for and are keen to adopt modern, participatory, forms of government versus those who wish to re-impose supposedly ancient forms of governance. What should have been brotherhood has become rivalry, generosity has been replaced by greed and ambition, the right to think is held to be the enemy of real faith, and anything we might hope to do to expand the frontiers of human knowledge through research is doomed to failure for in most of the Muslim world, there are neither the structures nor the resources to develop meaningful intellectual leadership.
You will forgive me, I hope, for presenting to you such a grey picture of where we in the umma stand today, but, unless we have the courage to face unpleasant reality, there is no way that we can aspire realistically to a better future…”
Mawlana Hazar Imam tackled the issue in London, UK on October 19, 2003 as following…
“…Clearly the intellectual development of the umma, is, and should remain, a central goal to be pursued with urgency if we wish the Muslim world to regain its rightful place in world civilisation. Today, any reasonably well-informed observer would be struck by how deeply this brotherhood of Muslims is divided. On the opposite sides of the fissures are the ultra-rich and the ultra-poor; the Shi‘a and the Sunni; the theocracies and the secular states, the search for normatisation versus the appreciation of pluralism; those who search for and are keen to adopt modern, participatory, forms of government versus those who wish to re-impose supposedly ancient forms of governance. What should have been brotherhood has become rivalry, generosity has been replaced by greed and ambition, the right to think is held to be the enemy of real faith, and anything we might hope to do to expand the frontiers of human knowledge through research is doomed to failure for in most of the Muslim world, there are neither the structures nor the resources to develop meaningful intellectual leadership.
You will forgive me, I hope, for presenting to you such a grey picture of where we in the umma stand today, but, unless we have the courage to face unpleasant reality, there is no way that we can aspire realistically to a better future…”
To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.
It looks like mice were at play when the cat is away.
as for the speech of ALI/MHI at seerat conference.
my points of view on it.
1. Here MHI was invited as a muslim leader and not as an Imam.
2. one of the topic in the conference was status of Ummah within world community.
3. the shariati only like to hear the word Allah.rasool,Quran and along with it fiery condenm of west,jihad etc.
4.In respect ot the subject MHI confirm as 'WE' and THEY are suppose to be the non muslims, who do not believe in Quran as Final book and Rasool being the
last prophet.He was affirming the stand of the muslims as large.
5.my personal view when the word last prophet is used it can read the HE will not come back again to testify what he said. These line may be not in good spirit nevertheless true and legally valid statement.
6.Nothing Gaga over those line as we Ismaili also affirm those status
based out of his Farmans.
7.In the same speech ALI praised Prophet in spite of rasool coming form an unlearned and humble background.( I feel every muslim should frame
those lines and keep it).
MHI praised his Intellect,Humility.inter personal communication,wisdom
for a truly marfati n noorani entity.
He did NOT utter a single word on how he moved .wore, kept his facial hair prayed or his pilgrimage.
He inspired the highest value of rasool rather than his personal act during those times.
If muslims were few % of it ,They would have looked upon as what ismailis are today as shining examples within the communities they live.
I assume all listeners (shariatis) were donkies who could NOT take this message from it meant for THEM.
ALI speaks with a distinct Intellectual wave length even in speeches
I will try to give simple example.
A doctor in my city treats my relative well and cured him.
In a gathering I praised the doctor for his Intellect (medical skills).
It does not mean that I blanket ly endorsed his religious beliefs,political
affiliation or personal habits or his dressing code.
What would it be If were to mimic the doctor on how he walked,talked,held glasses etc.It would be directly or indirectly insulting the doctor.
It was simple common sense What message MHI wanted to give.
WOH HAATHI KE DAATH NAI,WOH TO KHUDA KE ALFAZ HAI.
BUD KIMASTI KE SUNNE AUR PADHNE WALO KI KE UNKI AQL KI DAATH
AB TAK AAYE NAHI.
I will be not amused if future shariati conference has topic of appointing
Mullah,Kazi,Alim in million of prisons around the world,where shariati inmate are large in numbers.
Forty years after the speech n wake up call see where Ismaili stand in communities they live and where Shariati stand today within the communities they live.
One word that is DISASTER from them.
This word was used for first time by MHI in speech in last 55 year
for human related events.He used this in relation to natural disasters
around the world (geological).
40 year back was a wake up call now an amber colour warning for humanity.
It looks like mice were at play when the cat is away.
as for the speech of ALI/MHI at seerat conference.
my points of view on it.
1. Here MHI was invited as a muslim leader and not as an Imam.
2. one of the topic in the conference was status of Ummah within world community.
3. the shariati only like to hear the word Allah.rasool,Quran and along with it fiery condenm of west,jihad etc.
4.In respect ot the subject MHI confirm as 'WE' and THEY are suppose to be the non muslims, who do not believe in Quran as Final book and Rasool being the
last prophet.He was affirming the stand of the muslims as large.
5.my personal view when the word last prophet is used it can read the HE will not come back again to testify what he said. These line may be not in good spirit nevertheless true and legally valid statement.
6.Nothing Gaga over those line as we Ismaili also affirm those status
based out of his Farmans.
7.In the same speech ALI praised Prophet in spite of rasool coming form an unlearned and humble background.( I feel every muslim should frame
those lines and keep it).
MHI praised his Intellect,Humility.inter personal communication,wisdom
for a truly marfati n noorani entity.
He did NOT utter a single word on how he moved .wore, kept his facial hair prayed or his pilgrimage.
He inspired the highest value of rasool rather than his personal act during those times.
If muslims were few % of it ,They would have looked upon as what ismailis are today as shining examples within the communities they live.
I assume all listeners (shariatis) were donkies who could NOT take this message from it meant for THEM.
ALI speaks with a distinct Intellectual wave length even in speeches
I will try to give simple example.
A doctor in my city treats my relative well and cured him.
In a gathering I praised the doctor for his Intellect (medical skills).
It does not mean that I blanket ly endorsed his religious beliefs,political
affiliation or personal habits or his dressing code.
What would it be If were to mimic the doctor on how he walked,talked,held glasses etc.It would be directly or indirectly insulting the doctor.
It was simple common sense What message MHI wanted to give.
WOH HAATHI KE DAATH NAI,WOH TO KHUDA KE ALFAZ HAI.
BUD KIMASTI KE SUNNE AUR PADHNE WALO KI KE UNKI AQL KI DAATH
AB TAK AAYE NAHI.
I will be not amused if future shariati conference has topic of appointing
Mullah,Kazi,Alim in million of prisons around the world,where shariati inmate are large in numbers.
Forty years after the speech n wake up call see where Ismaili stand in communities they live and where Shariati stand today within the communities they live.
One word that is DISASTER from them.
This word was used for first time by MHI in speech in last 55 year
for human related events.He used this in relation to natural disasters
around the world (geological).
40 year back was a wake up call now an amber colour warning for humanity.
I am very well careful what I replied, and I do not see that I wrote it wrong? I am not like you who cosider himself as an Ismaili but not have trust in Farmans and ginans.
whatever I wrote above is true, I do not know where you find mistakes can anybody else can fond any mistakes in my above post?
Next time before you criticize anybody study what is really Ismailism is all about?
whatever I wrote above is true, I do not know where you find mistakes can anybody else can fond any mistakes in my above post?
Next time before you criticize anybody study what is really Ismailism is all about?
Tret,
Sorry! for my misunderstanding.
But, Brother Admin does not like to discuss about various Ismaili Majalis in this open forum. I can say this because he even deleted the names of some majalis which I mentioned in my above post.
So, best way to find out how to join in these majalis is you needs to contact respective mukhi/kamadia saheban of those majalis or ITREB.
Sorry! for my misunderstanding.
But, Brother Admin does not like to discuss about various Ismaili Majalis in this open forum. I can say this because he even deleted the names of some majalis which I mentioned in my above post.
So, best way to find out how to join in these majalis is you needs to contact respective mukhi/kamadia saheban of those majalis or ITREB.
Admin wrote:Tret, if you are Ismaili, you already know what it takes to become member of any Mijlas. Dedication and voice from the heart are some of the things it takes.
If you are not Ismaili, then what is the point of your question? Mijlases are not discussed here.
If dedication and voice of heart is what it takes, then why "ruhani frameen" should be exclusive to 'members'? Don't you think it's discrimination? And I don't agree at all that Maula discriminates.
Second Mr. Admin - are you an ismaili? How can you prove? I really don't think judging others to say one is ismaili or not is suitable for a wise person. At least I wasn't expecting this from you.