Explaination needed of Koran Ayat.

[ismaili103]

Ismaili103

Mawla Ali Madad.

Brother ismaili we recite our holy dua 3 times a day and you asked me where is imam in quran, correct ??

In our dua brother ismaili...espically 2nd part of our holy dua we say/pray

"Obey allah[swt], Obey the messenger of allah[swt]....and those VESTED WITH AUTHORITY"

who are those vested with authority ismaili ??

It is none other that Imam ali[as] and his progeny =MHI

And what is interesting is in that verse "obey messenger and those vested with authority are in the same sentence"....which means Imams[as] and prophets[as] are from the very same source[LIGHT]


I hope I answered your question in plain and simple terms

Yaa Ali Madad

ya ali madad

I m agreed wid u that Imam and Prophet are same light

agreed what is written in dua's 2nd part

Obey allah[swt], Obey the messenger of allah[swt]....and those VESTED WITH AUTHORITY

this concept is in every religion but in some religion its clear like..

in ismailis:

ALLAH
MOHD
ULIL AMRA

in christians:

GOD(ALLAH)
SON OF GOD(MOHD)
HOLY SPIRIT(ULIL AMRA)

in hindu:

VISHNU(ALLAH)
BHRAMA(MOHD)
MAHESH(ULIL AMRA)

our pirs explained it very decently in Ginan I will give u link of that Ginan later in which pir said...

vishnu(Allah), bhrama(mohd), and mahesh(ulil amra) they all are same NOOR and in present era they all are manifest in present Imam...

[zznoor]

Shiraz.virani wrote
Ofcourse its in the hands of Imam E Zaman brother ismaili...
What? Heaven and hell is in hands of Imam e Zaman?
Is it not Allah's job to judge?
because if you read quran, allah[swt] says there are some imams who will take their followers in hell [ex- pharaoh, false gods etc etc]....
Please give Sura and Aya number
but at the same time there are those who are appointed by allah[swt] who guide people on str8 path [ex: MHI] Please give Sura and Aya number. Please give reference in Quran which says authority is given to Imam

[shiraz.virani]

Zznoor, I think you have misunderstood what I said or its just that I did not responded convincingly to what I meant, but anyways when I said heaven and hell are in the hands of imam e zaman, I did not mean that he'll judge us or he is allah[swt] what I meant was :

The spiritual life of a momin[shia's] is in the hands of the imam of the time...If the imam says "A" then the momin has to say "A"...if he says "B" then momins have to say "B"

However in the past [as mentioned in quran] there are stories of FAKE Imam's =FAKE guides inviting people to hell fire :

28:41-42

And We made them (but) Imams inviting to the Fire; and on the Day of Judgment no help shall they find. In this world We continued to curse them; and on the Day of Judgment they will be among the hateful.

One of them in the past was pharaoh who used to call himself god on earth...He never did any good for his people. He used to kill the new born[males] babies so that nobody should rebel against him...I think same thing happened when H.Musa[as] was born. [Im pretty sure you are aware of this story/incident]...Inshort he belonged to the category of those who invite people to hell.

Now coming back to the current topic, if the imam teaches something good to his momin, he/she will follow his commands....similarly if the imam teaches something against allah[swt] and go against the commands of allah[swt], spread hatred and do evil...to those who follow them will inturn be dealt severely by allah[swt]

So in short if imams[as] do good, momins tend to do the same and if imams are evil and incite hatred instead of peace, those who follow the same course will be punished along with their imams

Like pharaoh was evil but yet there were some people who followed him, what happened ?? They were drowned.

Similarly we have this present imam [mawlana shah karim al hussaini] who guides his murids according to the time and need. The work of our imam speak for itself...It is said that a man is known by/for his work and not by his name...So I think we [ismailis] are lucky to be guided on the str8 path.

Its more like a teacher and student kind of a relationship where in the end you have to take a test and those who pass the test proceed to higher class and those who fail have to start it all over again

Overall zznoor, Imamat is a covenant which means it is allah's[swt] covenant for it says in surah 2:124 that it is "MY COVENANT" ....Had ismailis had FALSE IMAMS, I don't think ismaili imamat would have survived till now [1300+ years]...Even our imamat would have stopped like that of other shia branches.

So yes heaven and hell are in the hands of imam e zaman

[nuseri]

In surah 2,Ayat no;15

"Allah will throw back their mockery at them.
And give them rope in tresspasses.
So they will wander like blind ones(to and fro)."

This Ayat is to b taken along with ayat 14 ans 16 for full meaning.

Here the word is used 'Like blind' n not physical blind for those in next Ayat
who have Bartered guidance for error n lost true direction.


These//those are people who pray to Allah unseen,who are guided/convinced by Quacks that HE is Unliving,Unseen, Faceless etc.

If somebody reads the history.If was known that Arabia ,1450 years was not a full desert n with also with greenery, people traveled from far off
in numbers. during these period

1.It has grown into 90% desert cover.

2 They are fire type of weather with summers going upto 50 degrees calcius.

3.50% of the region in is conflict n kiliing each other in name of God.

4.The.people of these region are looked down upon by the world community.

The wrath n warning of Allah got evoked from the day when distorted Quran was introduced.

Earth has Been there for 200 million years ,so the period of 1450 years
can be a phase for THINGS to come in future.

It has more characteristics of Hell than Heavens.

[a_27826]

Zznoor, I think you have misunderstood what I said or its just that I did not responded convincingly to what I meant, but anyways when I said heaven and hell are in the hands of imam e zaman, I did not mean that he'll judge us or he is allah[swt] what I meant was :

The spiritual life of a momin[shia's] is in the hands of the imam of the time...If the imam says "A" then the momin has to say "A"...if he says "B" then momins have to say "B"

shiraz, so according to your understanding, When the Imam said "heaven and hell are in My hands",

1. He meant that if He tells His murids to do good things, then the murids will go to heaven and if He tells His murids to do bad things, then the murids will go to hell. And so in this sense, "heaven and hell" are in His hands depending on His good or bad guidance

OR

2. He meant that when a murid follows his guidance, then the murid will go to heaven and if a murid disobeys his guidance, then the murid will go to hell. And so in this sense, "heaven and hell" are in His hands depending on His murids decission to follow His guidance or not.

OR

3. He meant that He is the mercy to the mankind from Allah. He (the Imam) can intercede for His murids for forgiveness of a murid's sin. And so in this sense, "heaven and hell" are in His hands depending on His mercy

004:064 We sent not ever any Messenger, but that he should he obeyed, by the leave of God. If; when they wronged themselves, they had come to You, and prayed forgiveness of God, and the Messenger had prayed forgiveness for them, they would have found God turns, All-compassionate.

so, shiraz, which is your understanding of "heaven and hell are in My hands" from above 3 ?

[shiraz.virani]

shiraz, so according to your understanding, When the Imam said "heaven and hell are in My hands",

1. He meant that if He tells His murids to do good things, then the murids will go to heaven and if He tells His murids to do bad things, then the murids will go to hell. And so in this sense, "heaven and hell" are in His hands depending on His good or bad guidance

OR

2. He meant that when a murid follows his guidance, then the murid will go to heaven and if a murid disobeys his guidance, then the murid will go to hell. And so in this sense, "heaven and hell" are in His hands depending on His murids decission to follow His guidance or not.

OR

3. He meant that He is the mercy to the mankind from Allah. He (the Imam) can intercede for His murids for forgiveness of a murid's sin. And so in this sense, "heaven and hell" are in His hands depending on His mercy

004:064 We sent not ever any Messenger, but that he should he obeyed, by the leave of God. If; when they wronged themselves, they had come to You, and prayed forgiveness of God, and the Messenger had prayed forgiveness for them, they would have found God turns, All-compassionate.

so, shiraz, which is your understanding of "heaven and hell are in My hands" from above 3 ?

Logically speaking, for me its all of the above...Sorry excuse my english, at times I just cannot express my opinion, lol

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
Saal Mubarak to All.

As it is new year for Indian trading community.
I need help in info from Quran,we can work as team to have our point with
fair reasoning to our brethren in Ummat.

I have observed around 5 cases of may be anomalies in Quran.
I earnestly wish Scholars with fair knowledge of Arabic language to be team member.

I personally do know Arabic.
Starting with Ayat 4;24
of flagship lines of 'perfection of religion'

No explanation of Ayats is needed by me n nor I will enter into debate.
I presume there are many important flagship Ayats in Quran.

I want to know nos of that Ayats,which had word Allah written in it n also imp Ayats where word Allah is written .

4-5 Ayats will do.I am a very lazy reader not much into academics n memorization,hence the help.

[ShamsB]

Shiraz.virani wrote
Ofcourse its in the hands of Imam E Zaman brother ismaili...
What? Heaven and hell is in hands of Imam e Zaman?
Is it not Allah's job to judge?
because if you read quran, allah[swt] says there are some imams who will take their followers in hell [ex- pharaoh, false gods etc etc]....
Please give Sura and Aya number
but at the same time there are those who are appointed by allah[swt] who guide people on str8 path [ex: MHI] Please give Sura and Aya number. Please give reference in Quran which says authority is given to Imam

Chapter 36, Verse 12 - the second half
Wa Kulla Shain Asaina Hufi Imam-e-Mubeen.

"And we have vested the knowledge and authority of EVERYTHING in the MANIFEST IMAM."

Last I checked - Everything included EVERYTHING......Allah doesn't break out the authority of the Imam in specific buckets - but SAYS EVERYTHING IS INCLUDED.

Shams

[zznoor]

There is no first half and second half.
Take whole Aya
Find any Translation and/or Tafseer
Here is some samples

[Shakir 36:12] Surely We give life to the dead, and We write down what they have sent before and their footprints, and We have recorded everything in a clear writing.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 36:12]
On the day of judgement every individual, man or woman, will be brought to account for his or her deeds.

Some of the effects and consequences of the good or evil done by an individual continue to exist in the society, which usually affect the conduct of other people, therefore the primary cause of such evil or good will have to be dealt with (punished or rewarded) in view of the influence it exercised on others, in addition to its own recompense.

Once the people of Bani Salim told the Holy Prophet that their houses were far from the masjid and they would like to build homes near the masjid of the Holy Prophet. The Holy Prophet said: "Be you where you are now, for every step you take toward the masjid is also counted in your account of righteousness."

[Pickthal 36:12] Lo! We it is Who bring the dead to life. We record that which they send before (them, and their footprints. And all things We have kept in a clear Register.

[Yusufali 36:12] Verily We shall give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before and that which they leave behind, and of all things have We taken account in a clear Book (of evidence)

[Hilali-Khan 36:12] Verily, We give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before (them), and their traces,
(their footsteps and walking on the earth with their legs to the mosques for the five compulsory congregational prayers, Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) and all other good and evil they did, and that which they leave behind)

[Maudidi 36:12] We shall surely raise the dead to life and We record what they did and the traces of their deeds that they have left behind.9 We have encompassed that in a Clear Book.
9. This shows that three kinds of the entries are made in the conduct-book of men. First, whatever a person does, good or bad is entered in the divine register. Second, whatever impressions a man makes on the objects of his environment and on the limbs of his own body itself, become recorded, and all these impressions will at one time become so conspicuous that man’s own voice will become audible and the whole history of his ideas and intentions and aims and objects and the pictures of all of his good and bad acts and deeds will appear before him. Third, whatever influences he has left behind of his good and bad actions on his future generation, on his society and on mankind as a whole, will go on being recorded in his account as far as they reach and as long as they remain active and operative. The full record of the good and bad training given by him to his children, the good or evil that he has spread in the society, and its impact on mankind as a whole, will go on being maintained till the time that it goes on producing good or evil results in the world.

36:12 (Asad) Verily, We shall indeed bring the dead back to life; and We shall record whatever [deeds] they have sent ahead, and the traces [of good and evil] which they have left behind: for of all things do We take account in a record clear.

Read Quran with open mind not with pre conceived ideas.

[Admin]

36:12 says "Imame Mubeen" not "Kitabe Mubeen"

zznoor, your given translations are no good.

How do you personally translate Imam-e-Mubeen?

[a_27826]

36:12 says "Imame Mubeen" not "Kitabe Mubeen"

zznoor, your given translations are no good.

How do you personally translate Imam-e-Mubeen?

just my personal belief......i dont have objection to the equation Imame Mubeen = Kitabe Mubeen......

[agakhani]

just my personal belief......i dont have objection to the equation Imame Mubeen = Kitabe Mubeen......

Good to know, bro! but what is your equation between first revealed real Quran and that changed book called " Usman Quran!!! (?)"?

[Admin]

Some people do not have problem with man = woman and they are free to their own opinion. They should not try to convince others that they are right.

[zznoor]

36:12 says "Imame Mubeen" not "Kitabe Mubeen"

zznoor, your given translations are no good.

How do you personally translate Imam-e-Mubeen?

I am not scholar of Arabic language. There are many translation, word by word translation and tafseers by Shia, Sunni, Ahmedi and oriental scholars.
You need to study them objectively.

This from one of web site:

The Arabic word “imam” appears seven times in the Quran, and its plural form "a’immah" appears another five times. One of the interesting things about Arabic is the manner in which one word is used in so many different ways all with the same basic root meaning. In regards to the word “imam”, it means “a thing which is followed.” This thing which is followed can be a person, place, or thing. For example, in the Quran, the word “imam” is used to refer to a leader (who is followed), a road (which is followed), and a book (which is followed). In the Quran, the word “imam” is used five times to refer to a thing (i.e. inanimate non-human object), whereas it is used to refer to a person the other seven times. Of these seven times, the word “imam” is never used to refer to the Infallible Imams of Shia.

[zznoor]

just my personal belief......i dont have objection to the equation Imame Mubeen = Kitabe Mubeen......

Good to know, bro! but what is your equation between first revealed real Quran and that changed book called " Usman Quran!!! (?)"?

In order to establish difference between "first revealed real Quran and that changed book called " Usman Quran"

You need to compare difference you need " first revealed Quran".
Since it is not available, we cannot say Quran we have is currupcted.

[ShamsB]

just my personal belief......i dont have objection to the equation Imame Mubeen = Kitabe Mubeen......

Good to know, bro! but what is your equation between first revealed real Quran and that changed book called " Usman Quran!!! (?)"?

In order to establish difference between "first revealed real Quran and that changed book called " Usman Quran"

You need to compare difference you need " first revealed Quran".
Since it is not available, we cannot say Quran we have is currupcted.

You can't

We can - and that too on the basis of your "uncorrupted" Qur'an.

Wa Kulla shain asaina huffi Imam-e-Mubeen.

Shams

[tret]

36:12 says "Imame Mubeen" not "Kitabe Mubeen"

zznoor, your given translations are no good.

How do you personally translate Imam-e-Mubeen?

I am not scholar of Arabic language. There are many translation, word by word translation and tafseers by Shia, Sunni, Ahmedi and oriental scholars.
You need to study them objectively.

This from one of web site:

The Arabic word “imam” appears seven times in the Quran, and its plural form "a’immah" appears another five times. One of the interesting things about Arabic is the manner in which one word is used in so many different ways all with the same basic root meaning. In regards to the word “imam”, it means “a thing which is followed.” This thing which is followed can be a person, place, or thing. For example, in the Quran, the word “imam” is used to refer to a leader (who is followed), a road (which is followed), and a book (which is followed). In the Quran, the word “imam” is used five times to refer to a thing (i.e. inanimate non-human object), whereas it is used to refer to a person the other seven times. Of these seven times, the word “imam” is never used to refer to the Infallible Imams of Shia.

You see where the problem is with you, zznoor? The problem is that you are not an imamiah, and it's really hard for an us (ismailies) to make you (sunnie) understand the importance of the concept of imamiah. You need to settle down your differences with main-stream shia twelves first, before you start arguing with us (ismailies). The reason why I am saying this is because, you(sunnies) wouldn't understand the concept that you hear from us (ismailies). I give you a simple analogy, and I hope you get my point.

Say Student A(an ismailie) is in university doing his master's degree. Student B(shia twelver) is doing his college degree and student C(a sunnie) is trying to complete his high school degree. Now, if student B tries to argue some trigonometry formula with student A, surely enough student A will know the answer; however, there are a lot more questions that student B will never know what student A already knows, unless student B passes his college degree. Now coming back to student C; how could student C know anything or any concept that student A is talking about? i.e. quantum physics and advanced mathematical equations and formulas? where student C only knows how to add and subtract simple values?

think about it!! don't be stuck like jews/christians in the past. open your mind.

[a_27826]

just my personal belief......i dont have objection to the equation Imame Mubeen = Kitabe Mubeen......

Good to know, bro! but what is your equation between first revealed real Quran and that changed book called " Usman Quran!!! (?)"?

Quran is the verbal words of God recited by the Prophet.

The Quran is called The Book because Quran describes itself as Al-Kitab while the Words were not in form of physical book.

The Quran is called The Book not because of the present usmani book we have.

Usmani book came about after the demise of Prophet in order to preserve the verbal Words of God.

I don't know as to why Quran describes itself as Al-Kitab.

Do you know why? can anybody tell me?

[agakhani]

Say Student A(an ismailie) is in university doing his master's degree. Student B(shia twelver) is doing his college degree and student C(a sunnie) is trying to complete his high school degree. Now, if student B tries to argue some trigonometry formula with student A, surely enough student A will know the answer; however, there are a lot more questions that student B will never know what student A already knows, unless student B passes his college degree. Now coming back to student C; how could student C know anything or any concept that student A is talking about? i.e. quantum physics and advanced mathematical equations and formulas? where student C only knows how to add and subtract simple values?

A very good example given by you Tret, now sister ZZnoor has to start read (Shia and Ishnaashrai ) Imamiya concept first and then after she can argue about Sunnism, but I have little hope that she will do that!!

[Admin]

This thread is to explain Ayats of Quran, share your interpretation of various ayats but do not turn this section into the discussion that was closed in the other thread.

[nuseri]

To 2782:Ya Ali madad.
To understand your question better.I have short question you may select n answer to firm up n form basis for my answer.
The verses you quote/refer by drop of a hat.
Are they from

a. Utmani Mushaf

b .Presumtive Quran.

c. Quran e Mubeen.The Holy Book.

Please elect one alphabet to make things simpler

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad:To Quran scholars.(Arabic n non Arabic).

Alwaez Kamluddin was in our city last week.

I attended one of his waez in which he quoted from Quran ,an Ayat in arabic lingo. He did not mention the ayat no.

It was in Arabic where Allah say that zikr is grater than prayer.
In same Ayat the word Salah(sallat) ,zikr and kabir/a(greater) word are mentioned.

Please any one can search that and post the same full Ayat.

[zznoor]

29:45
Atlu Mā 'Ūĥiya 'Ilayka Mina Al-Kitābi Wa 'Aqimu Aş-Şalāata ۖ 'Inna Aş-Şalāata Tanhá `Ani Al-Faĥshā'i Wa Al-Munkari ۗ Wa Ladhikru Al-Lahi 'Akbaru Wa ۗ Allāhu Ya`lamu Mā Taşna`ūna

[zznoor]

Remembrance of Allah

by Shaykh Ahmed Abdul Mujeeb Qasmi Nadvi (translated by Muhammad Owais Jafrey)

islameasy.org/K_Zikr_Allah.php

[zznoor]

This thread is to explain Ayats of Quran, share your interpretation of various ayats but do not turn this section into the discussion that was closed in the other thread.

Sometimes explanations depends on Tariqa of explainer.
Sometime you have to read few Ayas before and/or after.

For example 36:12

No abuse please

[zznoor]

It was in Arabic where Allah say that zikr is grater than prayer.

I will rephrase this

It was in Arabic, where It says that zikr of Allah is grater than prayer.

BTW salat is Zikr of Allah

[Admin]

Stick to your book and we will stick to Imame Mubeen.

[nuseri]

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.

Your ayat finding is well taken.

I assume it may be not the same Ayat as I have heard the content and it's word.
I have asked the ayat and not a debate what the word prayer or the word zikr can means at different level.

Please if anyone can search the one Ayat in which all three words heard/ mentioned by me are there in that order.

[zznoor]

29:45
Otlu ma oohiya ilayka mina alkitabi waaqimi aIssalata inna alssalata tanha AAani alfahshai waalmunkari walathikru Allahi akbaru waAllahu yaAAlamu ma tasnaAAoona

Above transliteration is by Asad
It has three words
Salata
kabru
thikru also pronounced zikru

Good luck finding another Aya
Some people think they are too smart and are not open minded

[a_27826]

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.

Your ayat finding is well taken.

I assume it may be not the same Ayat as I have heard the content and it's word.
I have asked the ayat and not a debate what the word prayer or the word zikr can means at different level.

Please if anyone can search the one Ayat in which all three words heard/ mentioned by me are there in that order.

Indeed 029:045 does contain all the three words you mentioned.

029:045 Recite what has been revealed to you of the Book, and perform the prayer; prayer forbids indecency and dishonour. God's remembrance is greater; and God knows the things you do.

The main purpose (essence) of establishing prayers is to "remember" God.

If we were God conscious all the time, then God would not have ordered us to establish prayers.

But we are not perfect, that's why God sent down "Reminder" for us to remember Him.

020:014 Verily I am God; there is no god but Me; therefore worship Me, and establish prayer to remember Me