Is Quran compilation complete?

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad.
Here is a short story in english n hindi mix.
There were 5 Quran stalwarts discuusing Quran to gather.
A man comes and asks them.KYAA KHUDH MILAA?.

tHEY said" KHUDA KA TO AATA PATA NAHI MILA,PUR AANDA JAROOR MILA.On hearng this the man asks AANDA KISKA THAA? AUR DIKNE MEE KAISA THAA?

oN THIS ALL OF THEM SAID.'HUM ISI SAWAL KE SOCH ME BAITHE HAI, BEHES
AUR CHARCHA CHAL RAHI HAI HAMARI.the man said.
AANDE PE TO MURGI AUR PAKSHI BEHET THE HAI.AAP LOG TO INSAAN HO.
Upon this they all started laughing either at the man r themelves.
The man later said."mubaraki.MASALLAH. AAP LOG QURAN KI BADI AACHI PADAYE KARTE HO. AND HE LEFT..

[Admin]

Please translate the conversation into English. Many more readers will gain your knowledge if it was posted in English.

[agakhani]

Do you think that during Prophet's era, it was OK for husbands to beat their wives, if they become rebellious but now its not OK?

To beat anybodies wife either during the time of Prophet or any time is not OK, it is barbarity! and in USA, it is consider as an Assault if you beat your wife and if she calls police then you have to go jail, I try to prove that Quran teaches us barbarity to beat our wife if she doesn't obey to us, What a Barbarity Quran teaching us!, what a out dated Quran is!??/. while ginans teaching us oppositely.

[agakhani]

Having said this I wanna make this very clear that these are not my views nor do I beat my wife [no matter whether Im in the USA or INDIA] icon_lol.gif

So, do I, I haven't beat my wife more then 2 decades but what I am trying prove here Shiraz is there are many other readers in this forum and outside thing Quran is perfect, Quran have answer of all Questions!, Quran can not be wrong!,they do not need any thing else( NOT EVEN RASIKUN FIN ILM) but only Quran, which Quran are they talking about? a quran which teaching us to beat our wives? whether it was first time, second or third time, whether you give her a chance to obey to you or not!!
BTW:- your efforts are always appreciate by me whether I agree with your thinking or not and you know whenever I satisfies with your answer( flat earth) I always said thanks you, doesn't I?

[a_27826]

Do you think that during Prophet's era, it was OK for husbands to beat their wives, if they become rebellious but now its not OK?

To beat anybodies wife either during the time of Prophet or any time is not OK, it is barbarity! and in USA, it is consider as an Assault if you beat your wife and if she calls police then you have to go jail, I try to prove that Quran teaches us barbarity to beat our wife if she doesn't obey to us, What a Barbarity Quran teaching us!, what a out dated Quran is!??/. while ginans teaching us oppositely.

I asked you that question because i was under impression that you thought that Quran 004:034 was once valid and now it’s outdated.

It was just a sample, more outdated verses still has to come in this thread meanwhile read this:-
Quran orders a man to beat his wife is she doesn't obey to him!!!! don't you think is this possible in this modern time and specially in USA? IF YOU THINK YES IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THEN OFF COURSE QURAN IS OUTDATED!.

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." Ayas Surat An Nisa 4-3

So, now if it was not valid then nor its valid now, then you can’t call it outdated.

The best you can say is it’s false.

Please correct me if my reasoning is wrong.[/quote]

[agakhani]

Tret wrote:-

You know what I think? I think you are still holding on to your hindu thoughts. You are still a hindu and never become a muslim, let alone ismailism. You are way way way far from being an ismaili. I think by now everyone know who's full of it.

Let me ask you this! who give you the authority to judge reader's faith? earlier you judged brother Shiraz's faith, (read green coded your quotes about shiraz) today you judge my faith, tomorrow you will judge Admin's faith and after that some one else and so on......

Please read what you had earlier wrote about Shiraz Virani !!????

1,

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Since you'r not an ismaili, you will never be able to realize that Imam appears as two different persons when in public where non-ismailies are the audiance (as the interviews), and it not wise of anyone to make an statement such that "i have never made any mistakes". 

[/b]

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and promoting your mentor's (akbarali maherali's) ideas and agendas? At least I am honest and saying it to your face. Not a coward like yourself, who wears ismaili mask and pretend to be one. Go have a life and do something meaningful with your life, as opposed to wasting your time promoting anti-ismaili ideas of your mentor.

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You are NOT and can NOT be an Ismaili, period!!! 

Your mentor is akbar ali maher ali, and ex ismaili, and so you are! So why don't you go away and stop wasting your time and others? 

You refer to Hazir Imam as agakhan, as many other non-ismailis do. You don't understand what's the value of Hazir Imam in our tariqa!! You have no idea about the Imamia tariqa, in general. So, I don't care what your belief is, I don't give 2 rats XYZ. 


You are ARE NOT an Ismaili and ca NOT be one in your entire lifetime, go back to your mentor (akbar ali maher ali and ex ismaili who is been bought by sunni's and so have you).  

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I don't understand why you paste these Farmans, when you don't believe in Hazir Imam??? 

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you stop believing in Imamat, or rather your believe in Imamat is filthy which is equal to not believing in it.

Ismaili.net Forum readers do you need more what brother Tret wrote about Shiraz's faith? I think you guys will be next, don't blame me if tomorrow he target ZZnoor or Shams or Nuseri, who knows?!

Tret, now will you please keep your mouth shut? and stop judging someone's faith!!

Admin your action in this matter to stop "judging some else faith" either by Tret or any other readers will be highly appreciate if not by other readers then at least by me!!.

[shiraz.virani]

a_27826 said :

i don't see stages "first", "then" and "finally", instead I find "and" and "and"

So basically you're advocating

1] "smacking" women 1st and asking questions later

or

2] warn them, don't share bed with them and beat them up [COMBO ]

or

3] WARN THEM and if they don't listen to you DON'T SHARE THEIR BED'S and if they still don't listen to you then BEAT THEM [lightly]

Im not advocating beating a woman here...I just wanna know your views

[shiraz.virani]

Agakhani bhai, 1st of all I wanna let you know that nobody is against you or hold any grudge against you...I don't think there's anyone on this forum who has in-depth knowledge about ginan and history of ismailism as you do.

Whatever "Tret" said about me in the past are his personal views [and he is entitled to it], they may or may not be shared by most of the Ismailis on this forum.

As I said earlier, what "Tret" is writing/posting/asking today has already been asked by me in the past and I have already been crucified for asking those questions by various people [including Tret] because I think my way of asking was slightly different or direct may be.... hehehe

Anyways past is past, let's not waste our time accusing each other...Let's just be open minded and try to respect the views of all those [ismailis/non ismailis] on this forum....WHEN OUR IMAM CAN DO IT, WHY CAN'T WE ???

PEACE

[agakhani]

I, agree with as per a_27826 there is no first, second or third option mentioned in quran, as long as suratul Nisa is concered so plese do not bombard with questions to a_27826 and make him confused, seems he is good learner and has good knowledge in quran after you, a lot more knowledge then me off corse, so please do not dis appoint him let him to florish more and more his input.he will be a another Shiraz in this forum retty soon,since it seems to me that he has good knowledge in quran.
Btw, I do not copy and paste too much, it is true that I go in Shia/sunny, Hindu, Christian, Jews Web sites more often but it does not mean I believe 100% them, now come to the point yes we all should forget what we already writen abot one another.

[tret]

Tret wrote:-

You know what I think? I think you are still holding on to your hindu thoughts. You are still a hindu and never become a muslim, let alone ismailism. You are way way way far from being an ismaili. I think by now everyone know who's full of it.

Let me ask you this! who give you the authority to judge reader's faith? earlier you judged brother Shiraz's faith, (read green coded your quotes about shiraz) today you judge my faith, tomorrow you will judge Admin's faith and after that some one else and so on......

Please read what you had earlier wrote about Shiraz Virani !!????

1,

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Since you'r not an ismaili, you will never be able to realize that Imam appears as two different persons when in public where non-ismailies are the audiance (as the interviews), and it not wise of anyone to make an statement such that "i have never made any mistakes". 

[/b]

2,

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and promoting your mentor's (akbarali maherali's) ideas and agendas? At least I am honest and saying it to your face. Not a coward like yourself, who wears ismaili mask and pretend to be one. Go have a life and do something meaningful with your life, as opposed to wasting your time promoting anti-ismaili ideas of your mentor.

3

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You are NOT and can NOT be an Ismaili, period!!! 

Your mentor is akbar ali maher ali, and ex ismaili, and so you are! So why don't you go away and stop wasting your time and others? 

You refer to Hazir Imam as agakhan, as many other non-ismailis do. You don't understand what's the value of Hazir Imam in our tariqa!! You have no idea about the Imamia tariqa, in general. So, I don't care what your belief is, I don't give 2 rats XYZ. 


You are ARE NOT an Ismaili and ca NOT be one in your entire lifetime, go back to your mentor (akbar ali maher ali and ex ismaili who is been bought by sunni's and so have you).  

4,

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I don't understand why you paste these Farmans, when you don't believe in Hazir Imam??? 

5,

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you stop believing in Imamat, or rather your believe in Imamat is filthy which is equal to not believing in it.

Ismaili.net Forum readers do you need more what brother Tret wrote about Shiraz's faith? I think you guys will be next, don't blame me if tomorrow he target ZZnoor or Shams or Nuseri, who knows?!

Tret, now will you please keep your mouth shut? and stop judging someone's faith!!

Admin your action in this matter to stop "judging some else faith" either by Tret or any other readers will be highly appreciate if not by other readers then at least by me!!.

I bet you still have your little elephant with six leg sculpture at home!!!!

[Admin]

There are traits of Arabic culture in the book compiled as we know today. In particular an Arabic proverb even used today says "Beat your wife every day, even if you don't know why, she knows"

So there is Arabe influence in the compilation. If the compilation would have occurred under the leadership of Chinese or South Americans, the Quran would certainly look different today.

[tret]

... it is true that I go in Shia/sunny, Hindu, Christian, Jews Web sites more often ...

that's why your ideologies are tampered. Your effort will be much more well spent, reading some of Ismailisim and Islamic history, as opposed to going to anti-islamic forums and reading anti-islamic point of view.

Remember always. Our beloved Hazir Imam has always says that we are MUSLIM first, then ISMAILI. One of the essence of Islam is to believe in God his profits and his Book. What you are implying -- by stating 'qur'an is wrong, qura'an is outdated' -- is otherwise. so, when you imply something, it's best to say it direct. Get it? Let me make it clear, i know english can be a barrier to you.

If you imply that God is wrong and his Book is wrong. Then everyone can conclude that you simply don't believe in God. Because no one believes in wrong! This is what you imply. So, if one deliberately implies God is wrong, can you still consider him a muslim/muslima? I highly doubt it.

How can you consider yourself a muslim while you deliberately imply that God is wrong/Quran is false/outdated? I mean either you are stupid or you think everyone else is. Let readers be judge and jury.

[a_27826]

a_27826 said :

i don't see stages "first", "then" and "finally", instead I find "and" and "and"

So basically you're advocating

1] "smacking" women 1st and asking questions later

or

2] warn them, don't share bed with them and beat them up [COMBO ]

or

3] WARN THEM and if they don't listen to you DON'T SHARE THEIR BED'S and if they still don't listen to you then BEAT THEM [lightly]

Im not advocating beating a woman here...I just wanna know your views

2] scold them, don't share bed with them and beat them [COMBO]


I am just trying to understand 004:034…………

Agakhani indicated beating wife is outdated instruction in 004:034 while you indicated it’s not outdated because 004:034 says first correct her verbally and if she doesn’t correct herself, then stop sharing the bed with her and if still she doesn’t correct herself, then beat her as the last option.

But I don’t see these three stages in 004:034………there are no IFs and THENs in it except in the last sentence where it says if she corrects herself, then don’t hold anything against her.

Waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna

And those you fear may be rebellious, admonish and banish them to their beds and beat them.

For the convenience, I have bolded WAs and ANDs in the transliteration and translation respectively

[nuseri]

I have read that few bloggers have stated that Rasulillah PBUH was an Ummi/illerate.What is the basis of your conviction?

[tret]

I just wanna add my two cents here for everyone.

We are not and not considered orthodox as the mainstream sunnies/shias, simply because we (ismailies) seek the batini meanings of what's obvious in the Qura'an-e-azimusha'an. i.e. right now, is the subject of 'beating' your wife. there are many many other subjects we could name. i.e. 'jehad', 'cutting hand', 'cutting toung'. etc... These are all figurative languages and symbolism. Without proper interpretation and tafsir, one would definitely go astray, like the one who's using 'agakhani' alias, who pretends to be the true ismailie.

Let me tell you a story and you could conclude how Qura'an can be really interpreted, how we ismailies are supposed to, from the Farameens of Hazir Imam.

During the era of Profit Mohammad PBUH, there was a man who committed a crime. He did steal. As a result, the Profit (Mohmammad PBUH) ordered to 'cut his hand off stealing'. Please pay attention to 'cutting hand off of "stealing"' not simply 'cutting hand'.

This is really important, because 'cutting hand' means (to orthodox) simply cut the freaking hand off. But to a catholic may mean differently. We as ismailies, must interpret this differently. AKDN, today tries to 'cut the hands from stealing' in third world countries. 'Cutting hands off of stealing' means provide an alternative from wrong-doing while enabling men, to bring food at the table for their family. Means, giving them a mean to support their family. Not necessarily means literally 'cut the hands off', which is what anti-islam uses against us.

I poked the question of 'jehad' earlier, but no one payed attention to respond. It's another subject that anti-islam stabs us all the time. But there are logical answers. 'Jehad' doesn't mean killing non-believers. It means 'war' or 'struggle' against your 'nafs'. or against ignorance.

Qura'an is full of symbolism and figurative languages, and without proper guide (Hazir Imam), one (like agakhani and people like him) would be completely lost and will go astray.

That's the reason, our beloved Profit PBUH, promised that 'two things will stay with us till the day of judgement'. The two things that He was referring to is 'Qura'an' and 'Imam-e-Zaman'.

I hope and pray for those ismailis (and non-ismailies like agakhani) who pretends to know everything and turn around their faith and believe against the well of Allah and our beloved Profit Mohammad PBUH and our beloved Hazir-Imam, that may Maula give them proper guidance to come back to 'siratul-mustaqim'.[/b]

[tret]

I have read that few bloggers have stated that Rasulillah PBUH was an Ummi/illerate.What is the basis of your conviction?

Well, what do you thin?

I think it's true!!!! I think our beloved Profit PBUH was indeed illiterate. But, consider this, how can an illiterate man come up with such great words (the ayats of Qura'an)? It's impossible unless the words would be from someone really superior. Someone above all humans. Someone who's words are not bound to time and space. Someone who's words are valid in any time and in any period (Just needs proper interpretation and tafsir. Not like agakani who's influenced and tries to interpret Qura'an like a christian and becomes 'gumrah'). So, yes, Our beloved Profit PBUH was indeed illiterate, but the ayats that was revealed to him was from someone very greater than us (humans).

[tret]

I have read that few bloggers have stated that Rasulillah PBUH was an Ummi/illerate.What is the basis of your conviction?

Nuseri, I don't know if you are an ismailie or not.

But our beloved Imam in his last interview provided the definition of an 'educated man' in today's world. If you don't know, I'd strongly advise to listen to NDTV, walk the talk with Hazir Imam. Google it, you'll find it. google knows best.

[a_27826]

I have read that few bloggers have stated that Rasulillah PBUH was an Ummi/illerate.What is the basis of your conviction?

007:157
Allatheena yattabiAAoona alrrasoola alnnabiyya al-ommiyya allathee yajidoonahu maktooban AAindahum fee alttawrati waal-injeeli

who follow the Apostle - the illiterate prophet, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the gospel



007:158
faaminoo biAllahi warasoolihi alnnabiyyi al-ommiyyi allathee yu/minu biAllahi wakalimatihi waittabiAAoohu laAAallakum tahtadoona

believe then in God and His Apostle, the illiterate prophet,- who believes in God and in His words - then follow him that haply ye may be guided.


062:002
Huwa allathee baAAatha fee al-ommiyyeena rasoolan minhum yatloo AAalayhim ayatihi wayuzakkeehim wayuAAallimuhumu alkitaba waalhikmata wa-in kanoo min qablu lafee dalalin mubeenin

He it is who sent unto the illiterates a Messenger amongst themselves to recite to them His signs and to purify them, and to teach them the Book and the wisdom, although they were before in obvious error.

[a_27826]

Let me tell you a story and you could conclude how Qura'an can be really interpreted, how we ismailies are supposed to, from the Farameens of Hazir Imam.

FACE TO FACE WITH THE AGA KHAN

L'EXPANSION NO.33

MARCH 1975

INTERVIEWED BY ROGER PRIOURET

(TRANSLATED FROM FRENCH BY DR.ABDUL SULTAN HASSAM)

Q. What is your role as head of the community?

A. It is two-fold. The Imam must direct Ismailis on the practice of their religion and constantly interpret the Qur'an for them according to our theology. On the spiritual plane, the Imam's authority is absolute. Ismailis believe therefore that what the Imam says is the only true interpretation possible

[a_27826]

I just wanna add my two cents here for everyone.

We are not and not considered orthodox as the mainstream sunnies/shias, simply because we (ismailies) seek the batini meanings of what's obvious in the Qura'an-e-azimusha'an. i.e. right now, is the subject of 'beating' your wife. there are many many other subjects we could name. i.e. 'jehad', 'cutting hand', 'cutting toung'. etc... These are all figurative languages and symbolism. Without proper interpretation and tafsir, one would definitely go astray

Even if take the zaheri meaning of 004:034............there is nothing barbaric in it.........

The husband is made responsible for the wife.

The husband is the guardian, the protector, the maintainer, the bread earner for the wife.

As such wife is expected to be obedient to her husband.

So what's wrong in "punishing" to correct her disobedience?

Same thing may apply in mother/child, murshid/murid relationships and other relationships as well.

One has been made responsible for the other.

[Admin]

We are not anymore at a time where the MAN is the bread-earner. In today's society, women have equal responsibility and many times become the only bread-earner of the family.

We Ismaili say to women that fight for your spiritual equality. When a person dies, the soul is not a man or a women, it is just a soul.

[a_27826]

We are not anymore at a time where the MAN is the bread-earner. In today's society, women have equal responsibility and many times become the only bread-earner of the family.

We Ismaili say to women that fight for your spiritual equality. When a person dies, the soul is not a man or a women, it is just a soul.

But the family needs to have a “Head of Family”.
Discipline has to be there in the family.

If God made everybody equal in status, then the world would have been in a chaotic state with no relationships like Teacher/Student, Murshid/Murid, and Employer/Employee etc.

Sure souls don’t have gender/age but persons do have them.

And relation in a family is between persons and not souls.

If a member of a family misbehaves, the “Head of the family” has duty to discipline that family member.

[Admin]

In today's word, man and women share everything, including responsibilities. Abuse is not allowed. To try to justify abuse by any reference and concept is foreign to the basis of Islam.

Islam is also the religion of the future, of the past. Islam can never be a religion of the future if it is interpreted in the wrong manner. Trying to make us live in a backward society which existed only 14 hundreds years ago and which also exists today in some people's imagination is plain wrong. This is the interpretation most of the Mullas wants to impose to the world Muslims. An interpretation which is so remote from Islam that even Allah the All Forgiver will never forgive them for all the bad publicity they give to His peaceful religion and to taking Muslims out of the Straight Path, out of Siratal Mustaqueem.

Islam is a religion of peace, not only peace between various people and society but between husband and wife also and between parents and family.

Relations between people should be a relation between souls. Then only we will achieve Islam.

Admin

[agakhani]

So what's wrong in "punishing" to correct her disobedience?

Brother a_27826, we are not living 1400 years ago, (called dark age in human history)but we are living modern time and in current society it is consider as barbarity. It might be necessary or Oked during the time of prophet Mohammad a 1400 years ago to beat wife but it is not necessary right now means Quran was not outdated that time but it is outdated right now because no body follows what Quran say to beat your wife because it is not acceptable in any modern society except some orthodox Mullahs.

Please read what brother Admin says about this:-

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In today's word, man and women share everything, including responsibilities. Abuse is not allowed.

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Trying to make us live in a backward society which existed only 14 hundreds years ago and which also exists today in some people's imagination is plain wrong. This is the interpretation most of the Mullas wants to impose to the world Muslims.

[tret]

So what's wrong in "punishing" to correct her disobedience?

Brother a_27826, we are not living 1400 years ago, (called dark age in human history)but we are living modern time and in current society it is consider as barbarity. It might be necessary or Oked during the time of prophet Mohammad a 1400 years ago to beat wife but it is not necessary right now means Quran was not outdated that time but it is outdated right now because no body follows what Quran say to beat your wife because it is not acceptable in any modern society except some orthodox Mullahs.

Please read what brother Admin says about this:-

Code: Select all

In today's word, man and women share everything, including responsibilities. Abuse is not allowed.

Code: Select all

Trying to make us live in a backward society which existed only 14 hundreds years ago and which also exists today in some people's imagination is plain wrong. This is the interpretation most of the Mullas wants to impose to the world Muslims.

Today you are trying to proove Qura'an is wrong. Tomorrow you may try to prove our Profits are wrong and next Islam is wrong. Where does it stop?

[agakhani]

Today you are trying to prove Qura'an is wrong. Tomorrow you may try to prove our Profits are wrong and next Islam is wrong. Where does it stop?

I am just trying to prove my point whether Quran is outdated or not? and it is.
in addition, there is no need to worry about tomorrow because I will not tell that I am not believing in prophets and not believing in Islam
(Asatgafirullah) if I say so then I am Kafir by the way I never said that I do not believe in Quran either I never said that I told you and brother Shiraz many times that ,I also read the Quran because it is Allah's Kalam whether it is complete or not out dated or not!!.

[shiraz.virani]

Brother a_27826, we are not living 1400 years ago, (called dark age in human history)but we are living modern time and in current society it is consider as barbarity. It might be necessary or Oked during the time of prophet Mohammad a 1400 years ago to beat wife but it is not necessary right now means Quran was not outdated that time but it is outdated right now because no body follows what Quran say to beat your wife because it is not acceptable in any modern society except some orthodox Mullahs.

Agakhani bhai, I guess you read all the answers written by all of us regarding @ above and I think you purposely chose to ignore them.

Agakhani bhai, you are a muslim 1st correct ???...You don't beat your wife correct ???....So does that make you an infidel for not beating your wife as mentioned in quran ???...No !!!!!

What's wrong with you ???....I have already said in my previous post that beating women or chopping one's hand is not 7 pillars of islam...It is upto an individual to decide whether he wants to treat his wife that way.

I remember a quote from Mahatma Gandhiji when he said

"An eye for an eye would make the whole world blind"

There are sooo many things mentioned in the quran that you yourself don't follow....ex: occasional drinking [that you said you do]...What Im trying to tell you agakhani bhai is that when you're not following the commands of god, how can you judge god or his book ???

You said you have soooo many questions that proves quran to be outdated but look at the beauty ....for every question you ask you get 5-6 or may be more answers from both ismailis and non ismailis.

[shiraz.virani]

Agakhani bhai said :

I also read the Quran because it is Allah's Kalam whether it is complete or not out dated or not!!.

Agakhani bhai, you are making it look as if you are reading quran for the sake of reading it.

If you go to walmart to buy a gallon of milk today, will you buy a milk whose expiry may be a week or 10 days from this day....or would you buy a milk that expired 3 days ago ???

Whats the logic of buying an expired milk when you know you cannot consume it ??

I hope you're getting my point

[tret]

Today you are trying to prove Qura'an is wrong. Tomorrow you may try to prove our Profits are wrong and next Islam is wrong. Where does it stop?

I am just trying to prove my point whether Quran is outdated or not? and it is.
in addition, there is no need to worry about tomorrow because I will not tell that I am not believing in prophets and not believing in Islam
(Asatgafirullah) if I say so then I am Kafir by the way I never said that I do not believe in Quran either I never said that I told you and brother Shiraz many times that ,I also read the Quran because it is Allah's Kalam whether it is complete or not out dated or not!!.

Then please let us know, what's your point, by proving Qura'an is outdated?

[a_27826]

Today you are trying to prove Qura'an is wrong. Tomorrow you may try to prove our Profits are wrong and next Islam is wrong. Where does it stop?

I am just trying to prove my point whether Quran is outdated or not? and it is.
in addition, there is no need to worry about tomorrow because I will not tell that I am not believing in prophets and not believing in Islam
(Asatgafirullah) if I say so then I am Kafir by the way I never said that I do not believe in Quran either I never said that I told you and brother Shiraz many times that ,I also read the Quran because it is Allah's Kalam whether it is complete or not out dated or not!!.

Excuse but i was under impression that 004:034 was not only outdated but it "was" false also.

Do you think that during Prophet's era, it was OK for husbands to beat their wives, if they become rebellious but now its not OK?

To beat anybodies wife either during the time of Prophet or any time is not OK, it is barbarity! and in USA, it is consider as an Assault if you beat your wife and if she calls police then you have to go jail, I try to prove that Quran teaches us barbarity to beat our wife if she doesn't obey to us, What a Barbarity Quran teaching us!, what a out dated Quran is!??/. while ginans teaching us oppositely.

can you clarify because i am confused