Is Quran compilation complete?

[shiraz.virani]

I, have collection of 40 ayas which are directly apply to Hazarat Ali (s.a.).

Agakhani bhai, Could you share those 40 aayats with us ?? Just the surah and aayat number would do ...thanks !!!

[shiraz.virani]

We can be a team of Momins who would try n attempt the fill the probable gap of incomplete Quran rather than debate on it's distortion,ETC.

All our opinions are nothing but opinions, its what MHI says is what matters...So let's all sign a petition and send it to MHI to give us the other missing chapters/surah's from the holy quran if there are any.

Not only will this clear all your doubt's i.e whether there is something missing in the holy quran or whether its chronological in order etc etc ...

And the reason why Im saying that we should all sign and submit a petition is because this is a very serious issue....Calling quran with all sorts of names [seen on this forum] will only make this matter worst.

Who else can answer this question but with whom lies the true/real interpretation of holy quran = PURE IMAMS[as] ??

[Admin]

You never replied to this simple question: Where was this book that you call Quran when Allah decreeted that "Today I have perfected your Religion"?

Did Prophet Muhammaed (PBUH) ever leave the Quran in a book form to the Muslims? Or did they themselves, after Allah decreed that their religion was perfect, started compiling the Quran. Something which the Holy Prophet (PBUH) refused to do up to his last breath.

Was not the compilation in a book form, an insult and a challenge by the compilers and by Usman, to the wisdom of Allah who never asked the Prophet (PBUH) to compile the Quran in a book form? Did not Allah know what Usman did not know?

Was Usman thinking that he was wiser then our Prophet (PBUH) when he decided to restrict the Infinite and Eternal Quran into a book of few pages, when even pens made of all the trees of the world can not be enough to write the Quran and ink made out of all the oil of Arabia will not be enough to record the miracles of Allah?

Allah in His infinite Mercy declared that His Religion was perfect in the absence of this book, well before Usman compiled the text of what he approved as been the Quran.

[nuseri]

To AgaKhani.

With your Faith/Imaan. If you really understand the word Allah,which mean' Nothing but ALI' n Farman of Imam Aga Ali Shah Datar" ALI THI ALLAH'.
He meant exactly the same.
Why only 40 ayats pointing to him? the whole of Quran is attributed to ALI.

To Admin:
Which event was earlier ?
the perfect religion statement
or the event of Ghadir E Khumm.

[shiraz.virani]

You never replied to this simple question: Where was this book that you call Quran when Allah decreeted that "Today I have perfected your Religion"?

Admin bhai, you ask the same question and receive the same answer from me or anybody else who has read the holy quran.

There was no book at the time of rasool[saw] thats a fact ...but at the same time there were sahaba's who used to write down every single wahi that used to be naazil on rasool[saw]...Not just that they even wrote down many hadiths[sayings] of rasool[saw] which most muslims call "SUNNAH"

So the answer to your 1 question is "yes" and a "no"

YES in the sense that you're right there was no book [in the form of book]

NO in the sense that there were sahaba's writing every single word that comes out of rasool[saw] mouth.

Did Prophet Muhammaed (PBUH) ever leave the Quran in a book form to the Muslims? Or did they themselves, after Allah decreed that their religion was perfect, started compiling the Quran. Something which the Holy Prophet (PBUH) refused to do up to his last breath.

No he did not leave the quran in a book form...you're right, but again quran [as mentioned in quran] is a book, right ??

During his last sermon, even our rasool[saw] said hold fast onto two things...i.e the book and his progeny...So if we are to agree that there was no book during his lifetime then why did he say book and his progeny ??

Was not the compilation in a book form, an insult and a challenge by the compilers and by Usman, to the wisdom of Allah who never asked the Prophet (PBUH) to compile the Quran in a book form? Did not Allah know what Usman did not know?

You're right but then again in the very same quran we read allah[swt] mentioning that it is he who sent down THE BOOK [quran] ...which book do you think he is talking about then ??

And if the compilation of usman is wrong and if iam to agree with you on this then why cant we simply sign a petition and send it to MHI to get the actual quran [full compilation] ?? ...Is it wrong to ask your guide who knows the real interpretation of holy quran ?? ...Is it wrong to ask the teacher if you have any doubts ??

Was Usman thinking that he was wiser then our Prophet (PBUH) when he decided to restrict the Infinite and Eternal Quran into a book of few pages, when even pens made of all the trees of the world can not be enough to write the Quran and ink made out of all the oil of Arabia will not be enough to record the miracles of Allah?

eternal is the message of quran...and not quran as a book ...which means there is no adding or removing anything from the holy book. And if we are to agree that there are certain verses removed from the holy quran then who else could we ask but the teacher who knows which verses are true verses and which verses are fake or have been altered with...Don't you think its high time we get some clarification from the guide ??

And then you said something about pens/ink...brother the verse that you're talking about is for those who try to fabricate the holy quran by adding few verses.

Allah in His infinite Mercy declared that His Religion was perfect in the absence of this book, well before Usman compiled the text of what he approved as been the Quran.

How can we clear this confusion is what I'm asking you ???...Are we gonna clear this by accusing each other ?? Or by asking the progeny = pure imams ???

If we think that this quran that we have is not actually the quran but some guy names usman's book then why can't we simply get as many signatures on as we can and send this question to MHI and ask him to give both ZAHERI and BAATIN interpretation of the whole book [if there is any] ??

If you make a mistake , its the teachers job to correct it , is it not ?? Am I asking too much ???

[nuseri]

To Admin:
Your posting sounds very qualitative with reasoning and you r upholding it fairly n maybe not fully strong.

I also personally feel that Farmans are better than than the Ayats in parables.
I did not wish to read it earlier.
I presume that Quran is mentioned in Preamble of our Constitution.
As till date the form of it is in a printed Book form n explained by QUACKS.
Shiraz(stuck up in a lift between 1 n 2 floor) would be right here.
It is mentioned as a Book.
the Book boldly proclaims.
that 'HE'/God
is a MALE entity,
LIVING WITH MAJESTIC FACE SEATED ON THE THRONE
GIVES GUIDANCE TO THOSE WHO SEEK IT.

To their faith with "those" who think him otherwise(unseen).

I feel the religion got completed with event of Ghadir n Immd the Ayat
of perfection (prompted by ALI opps Allah(Ali =lah) ) revealed to Prophet ,Thus parallel or a joint Entity (Quran n Imamat) was decreed.

SAMAJNE WALE SAMAJ GAYEE HAI,JO NAA SAMJE WO _____ HAI ?

[star_munir]

It is established historical fact that Quran as it is now, was compiled by Caliph Usman. According to Syed Muhmmad Askari, Hazrat Ali had compiled Quran in chronological order of chapters and verses as it were revealed to the Holy Prophet and presented this to Muslims in general but they did not accept it. Hazrat Ali advised his companions to accept this holy book as compiled officially saying that his compilation would not be seen by anybody so there might not come into existence more than one version of Quran
It is also important to know that our Imams have accepted the Quran in its current form and even the Ismaili constitution mentions it. It is also important to understand that Imams have also emphasized need to understand the message of Quran. Respect should be given to the Quran.
The importance of Quran, in its book form is elaborated in Ginan:
(Hazrat Ali said )“The heart of the person who reads the Holy Qur'aan is enlightened, and such a momin's heart attains peace. By reading the Holy Quran frequently, the worldly temptations are reduced, for temptations are the cause of great unhappiness to the heart.” (as mentioned in Kalam-e-Mowla, verse 90)
It is also need to understand that many people have recongnised Imam with the guidance given in Quran. One of such personality was Syed Nasir Khusraw who has written “One day I read ‘allegiance’ in the book where God said ‘and my hand above their hands’. Beneath a tree some men had sworn allegiance, These Jafar and Miqad, Abuzar, Salman; I asked myself where this tree is? This hand? Where do I find this hand to pledge allegiance? They said there is neither tree left nor such hand. That group is scattered and that hand concealed! Friends of Prophet, meant for paradise for that allegiance gave them special rank. I said it’s clear from the Quran that Ahmed (Prophet Muhammad) is Warner and illuminating lamp. If infidels want to blow out this lamp God makes it shine above all infidels! How come that now no one of these is here? Whose hand shall we take? To God should we be worse than previous ages? What wrong did we that we were unborn then? Why are we deprived of the Prophet’s presence...?”

[a_27826]

During his last sermon, even our rasool[saw] said hold fast onto two things...i.e the book and his progeny...So if we are to agree that there was no book during his lifetime then why did he say book and his progeny ??[/b]

Anybody knows the answer to the above ?

Which "Book" was Prophet referring to ?

[Admin]

The "Book" is the totality of the message of Allah to his creation (which is not only humans but all creation)

This is why even the Jews and the Christian who do not believe in the Quran are still referred as "People of THE Book". It is ONE book existing since the begining of the creation of Allah. Obviously when they were called People of the Book, the compilation by Usman did not exist.

[shiraz.virani]

The "Book" is the totality of the message of Allah to his creation (which is not only humans but all creation)

The totality of the message of allah and his creation is mentioned in holy quran that is again in the form of a book.

I told you in my previous post that the message that quran convey's to ASHRAFUL MAQLUKAAT is eternal ....but it is in the form of book [again mentioned in holy quran]

This is why even the Jews and the Christian who do not believe in the Quran are still referred as "People of THE Book". It is ONE book existing since the begining of the creation of Allah. Obviously when they were called People of the Book, the compilation by Usman did not exist.

Who told you they do not believe in holy quran ?? Who told you that ??...You're partly correct because as I said the message of quran is eternal and not the book.

Different scriptures were given to the different tribes in the past but the message have been the same i.e ...believe in one god and follow his commands.

The reason why they are called PEOPLE OF THE BOOK is because there are some jews and christians who still believe and follow the message of lord [both in torah and Gospel]

5:43

How come they unto thee for judgment when they have the Torah, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment (for them)? Yet even after that they turn away. Such (folk) are not believers.


5:46-47

And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

5:48

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

Which scripture do you think allah[swt] is talking about ??

The book that you are critisizing is the one thats giving us the answers !!!

[Admin]

Relax, no one is criticising any book, we are just trying to put a historical perspective in the compilation of the book itself. A book that did not exist in its present form when the Prophet [PBUH] died nor when the religion was perfected (At the declaration of the Speaking Quran)

[shiraz.virani]

Relax, no one is criticising any book, we are just trying to put a historical perspective in the compilation of the book itself. A book that did not exist in its present form when the Prophet [PBUH] died nor when the religion was perfected (At the declaration of the Speaking Quran)

Come on admin bhai !!!.....Come on !!!

Neither did our rasool[saw] said I leaving behind the book [bolta quran] and my progeny...Nor did our rasool[saw] said Im leaving behind BOLTA QURAN only.

Imam is a guide and we all agree with that....But how would the teacher teach his students[momin] without knowing the syllabus ??

Just like munir bhai said that Imam Ali[as] compiled the whole quran[book]....Im pretty sure we all agree with this....SO IF QURAN WAS BOLTA QURAN [as per you], THEN WHAT WAS THE NEED FOR BOLTA QURAN TO COMPILE A MUTE QURAN AND GIVE IT TO THE PEOPLE who rejected it saying they already have one ???

Does that even make any sense to you sir ???

[a_27826]

The "Book" is the totality of the message of Allah to his creation (which is not only humans but all creation)

maybe thats why God refers to "that" Book and not "this" Book in 02:002

002:000 The Cow. In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate
002:001 Alif Lam Mim
002:002 That (Dhalika) is The Book, wherein is no doubt, a guidance to the godfearing

This is why even the Jews and the Christian who do not believe in the Quran are still referred as "People of THE Book".

002:113 The Jews say, 'The Christians stand not on anything'; the Christians say, 'The Jews stand not on anything'; yet they recite The Book.

It is ONE book existing since the begining of the creation of Allah. Obviously when they were called People of the Book, the compilation by Usman did not exist.

085:021 Nay, but it is a glorious Koran,
085:022 in guarded tablet (Lauh Al-Mahfuz)

[a_27826]

The totality of the message of allah and his creation is mentioned in holy quran that is again in the form of a book.

Shiraz, i think what admin is telling is that all scriptures (Tohra, Injeel, Quran) are from the same one Book called "The Book"

Injeel were the words uttered from mouth of Prophet Jesus and Quran were the words uttered from mouth of Prophet Mohamed but all came from the same one Book called "The Book"

Admin: correct me if i am wrong in understanding your reply to the question about "The Book"

[a_27826]

The totality of the message of allah and his creation is mentioned in holy quran that is again in the form of a book.

Shiraz, i think what admin is telling is that all scriptures (Tohra, Injeel, Quran) are from the same one Book called "The Book"

Injeel were the words uttered from mouth of Prophet Jesus and Quran were the words uttered from mouth of Prophet Mohamed but all came from the same one Book called "The Book"

Admin: correct me if i am wrong in understanding your reply to the question about "The Book"

and if such is the case, then next question would be "why dint Jesus and Mohamed dint compile their words (i.e. Injeel and Quran) in writing during their lifetimes ?"

[a_27826]

I, have collection of 40 ayas which are directly apply to Hazarat Ali (s.a.).

Agakhani bhai, Could you share those 40 aayats with us ?? Just the surah and aayat number would do ...thanks !!!

maybe Agakhani meant "indirectly" instead of "directly". If such is the case, then most verses apply to Ali

[nuseri]

16 pages have gone by in debate
why is glass is little empty n who can be the culprit?
I am trying what may be a part or part of the emptiness in glass to fill it.

IT IS ALL IN OUR BLESSED DUA.
The same same Divine vocabulary from forensic angle.
Conviction of truth when recited.

from part 1:
ALLAHUMMA SALLI..............IMAMINAL HAZRIL MAUJOOD.(4 LINES)

from part 2:
LA ILLALLAH,MUHAMAADUR-RASOOLULLAH
ALIYUN AMEERUL-MU'MINEENA' ALIYULLAH.(2 LINES)

This is also our Ismaili Kalima.
the zahir meaning can be of the word Aliyullah,
that ALI is from Allah,but the TRUE baatin maina.
ALI is the truth of Allah..

Part 3:
LA FATA ILLA' ALY LA SAIFA ILLA ZULFIQAR.(ONE LINE)

Part 4:
ALLAHUMMAGHFIR LANA ZUNOOBANA,...............
WA BI-HAQQI MAWLANA WA IMAMINA.(4LINES)

Part 5:
YA IMMAZ-ZAMAN,YA MAWLANA......... YA HAZIR YA MOUJOOD.(3 LINES).

These can be a part of the pages/script missing.

Imam knows all,but attempt has to be made by momins with IMAAN
N IBADAAT and courage of even losing its life in process. not a petition perse,as suggested by an Imam disliker.

[shiraz.virani]

and if such is the case, then next question would be "why dint Jesus and Mohamed dint compile their words (i.e. Injeel and Quran) in writing during their lifetimes ?"

Excellent question !!!

Brother I think it took over 23 or 24 years for the revelation which continued until the last pilgrimage of rasool[saw], hence I think and this is my opinion that nobody was able to compile it into a book since it was not complete yet.

After the demise of rasool[saw] everyone knew that the revelation has been completed and started collecting all those scripts that were written by sahaba's.

What do you think ??

[a_27826]

After the demise of rasool[saw] everyone knew that the revelation has been completed and started collecting all those scripts that were written by sahaba's.

What do you think ??

i think that is possible if we were to assume that the Prophet was waiting for the Quran revealed to him to be completed so that it can be compiled but death over took him before he could do that.

But this assumption is possible if the Prophet was not infallible.

but God knows the best.

have you heard of any Prophet favoring his words to be recorded ?

I think, they all (the Prophets) wanted to be obeyed on what they said only.

Sunni's tariqa is based on the sayings of the Prophet because they find the Quran revealed by the Prophet is not sufficient.

Ask any sunni why during the Hajj and Umrah, they are to circumambulate the Kaaba seven times in a counterclockwise direction.

They dont even know how establish obligatory salah from Quran.

They are unable to follow Quran so they follow Bukhari & Co.

[shiraz.virani]

have you heard of any Prophet favoring his words to be recorded ?

I think, they all (the Prophets) wanted to be obeyed on what they said only.

But brother when quran was revealed, our rasool[saw] ensured that it was written down...Why ??? ....Because as per our history, our rasool[saw] could not read or write, whenever he used to get WAHI, he used to dictate it orally and the sahabas used to write it down @ whatever materials they had handy...Not just that, the sahabas used to even read it loud in front of our rasool[saw] to make sure there are no mistakes.

59:7

"And whatever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatever he forbids you, leave it. And fear Allah: truly Allah is severe in punishment."


Infact in one of his[SAW] hadiths, the prophet[SAW] said :

" Do not write anything from me except quran "

[shiraz.virani]

They dont even know how establish obligatory salah from Quran.

They are unable to follow Quran so they follow Bukhari & Co.

Yes brother, you're right again !!!
Their biggest loss is that they don't have any guide to guide them, hence they look here and there to get their answers.

We ismailis are lucky to have MHI who traces his ancestry from Imam ali[as]....the same imam[as] who compiled the whole quran....Can't we ask the imam of the time to clear our doubts ??

The whole argument whether the quran is complete or incomplete will be white washed once MHI says whether it is or isn't ...is it not

[shiraz.virani]

nuseri said :

It is mentioned as a Book.
the Book boldly proclaims.
that 'HE'/God
is a MALE entity,
LIVING WITH MAJESTIC FACE SEATED ON THE THRONE
GIVES GUIDANCE TO THOSE WHO SEEK IT

Nuseri in the same quran...allah[swt] uses the term "WE"...Does that mean there are two god's ??

In Arabic, when the gender of the subject/thing is unknown or unspecified or when the subject/thing is plural and contains both male and female individuals, the masculine pronoun will be used. In Arabic, the masculine pronoun is the default pronoun. It does not have to imply masculinity. It can be used by a speaker without masculinity being intended

[a_27826]

Infact in one of his[SAW] hadiths, the prophet[SAW] said :

" Do not write anything from me except quran "

If above hadith is authentic, then i wonder why sunnis give much importance to ahadith.

Apparently the above hadith didn't stop ahadith collectors and writers.

[a_27826]

But brother when quran was revealed, our rasool[saw] ensured that it was written down...Why ??? ....Because as per our history, our rasool[saw] could not read or write, whenever he used to get WAHI, he used to dictate it orally and the sahabas used to write it down @ whatever materials they had handy...Not just that, the sahabas used to even read it loud in front of our rasool[saw] to make sure there are no mistakes.

Actually i dont have much knowledge about the Quran Compilation.

Its nice to know the above information.

If Prophet ensured that once he gets a "wahi", it was written down by sahabas, then how come the chapters in are not in chronological order ?

I mean when and by whom the the chronological order of the written down chapters were rearranged ?

[shiraz.virani]

If Prophet ensured that once he gets a "wahi", it was written down by sahabas, then how come the chapters in are not in chronological order ?

Excellent question again !!!

"(But We have revealed it) in this manner (- piece by piece out of necessity). And (in spite of the fact that it has not been revealed all at once,) We have arranged it in an excellent (form and order of) arrangement (and free of all contradictions) " (25:32)

I think from the very first, it was meant that the verses and the chapters of the Holy quran should be arranged in order different from that of their revelation, otherwise the revelation and the collection and arrangement would not have been described as two different things.

But to be honest with you brother, let's just agree that quran is not in a chronological order, does that matter ??

Just because its not in chronological order, does that change the meaning of quran ??

And if we are still not convinced with the message of holy quran and want it to be in chronological order[as revealed] and at the same time feel that there are some verses missing from it, then who else could we ask by MHI ??

[shiraz.virani]

If above hadith is authentic, then i wonder why sunnis give much importance to ahadith.
Apparently the above hadith didn't stop ahadith collectors and writers

Ironically brother, even we[ISMAILIS] use hadiths in order to justify our faith.

" I and Ali[as] are from the same light "

"I'm the city of knowledge and Ali[as] is its gate "

etc ...etc

Every single sect of islam uses hadith to justify its BEING

During seerat conference I remember MHI said prophet's[saw] life is an example or a way we all should live and carry ourselves [dunno the exact words]...and we all know that prophet's[saw] detailed life account is given in hadiths.

But I agree with you we should not solely depend on hadiths because we don't know which hadith is authentic and which one is fabricated.

[a_27826]

If Prophet ensured that once he gets a "wahi", it was written down by sahabas, then how come the chapters in are not in chronological order ?

Excellent question again !!!

"(But We have revealed it) in this manner (- piece by piece out of necessity). And (in spite of the fact that it has not been revealed all at once,) We have arranged it in an excellent (form and order of) arrangement (and free of all contradictions) " (25:32)

I think from the first veses, it was meant that the verses and the chapters of the Holy quran should be arranged in order different from that of their revelation, otherwise the revelation and the collection and arrangement would not have been described as two different things.

025:032 The unbelievers say, 'Why has the Koran not been sent down upon him all at once?' Even so, that We may strengthen your heart thereby, and We have chanted it very distinctly.

The verse (025:032) you quoted, according to my understanding means that the unbelievers used to challenge/question/mock The Prophet that how come the revelations are coming one at a time and not all at once in one go.

But i don't blame these unbelievers for questioning such question since i find it as a valid question from a unbeliever to the messenger, otherwise how do you expect one to believe without using intellect and reasoning ?

But my question to you was based on the hadith you quoted that " the Prophet ensured the "wahi" came to him was recorded by the sahabas"

Now its obvious from the hadith you quoted, that the recorded "wahis" by the sahabas was in chronological form and after the demise of Prophet, all they had to do is compile them and we would be having it in exact form as it was revealed (i.e. chronological form).

But such is not the case. instead we find, after the demise of the Prophet, Omar getting frantic about different people having different written versions of the Quran and the people who had memorized the "wahis" are becoming less and less as the time goes by.

If at all there existed written "wahis" by the sahabas ensured by the Prophet (according to your quoted hadith), then there was no need for Abu Bakar to send Zaid bin Thabit to search for the scattered parts of "wahis" with different people.

In short, to summarize my question,

why do we now have Quran collected by Zaid bin Thabit (during the time of Abu Bakar) and compiled during the time of Othman and not the one written by the sahabas and unsured by The Prophet ?

[shiraz.virani]

why do we now have Quran collected by Zaid bin Thabit (during the time of Abu Bakar) and compiled during the time of Othman and not the one written by the sahabas and unsured by The Prophet ?

I think zaid bin thabit was one of the writers of prophets[saw]...I dunno the exact term to use for it but in short he used to write down everything rasool[saw] asked him to. After the demise of rasool[saw], he was appointed to write and collect [keep record] of quranic verses from others because he was the one who was given this task by our rasool[saw] in 1st place.

And I also believe due to political reasons nobody approached Imam Ali[as] who claimed to have authentic quran with exact chapters and verses....Have they did !!...We never would have had this many sects.

Coming back to the topic, zaid was appointed the role of collecting the quran [oral and written ] into one volume [book]....It was of utmost importance for H. Abu bakr because during that time they had few wars in which large number of people who memorized quran by heart perished.

Now when zaid bhai completed the task he left all the documents with H.Abu bakr who inturn gave it to H.Umar who inturn gave it to others in his family...I guess his daughter.

Now why both H.Abu bakr and H.Umar did not publish the quran [only allah[swt] knows]...But I think that they were not sure as to how to progress with it...as people who contributed in compiling this book still had those verses with them [they were not burned until the arrival of H. Uthman]

I personally dont think that even H.Uthman would have done it had people did not read in different dialects [there were different tribes as you know]...This might have made him think what if people start differing among themselves...Hence he took the decision to compile a unified quran whose original language was that of "quraysh"

I think H.Uthman's sole purpose was to eliminate the differences in dialects...Nothing more !!!

[a_27826]

why do we now have Quran collected by Zaid bin Thabit (during the time of Abu Bakar) and compiled during the time of Othman and not the one written by the sahabas and unsured by The Prophet ?

I think zaid bin thabit was one of the writers of prophets[saw]...I dunno the exact term to use for it but in short he used to write down everything rasool[saw] asked him to. After the demise of rasool[saw], he was appointed to write and collect [keep record] of quranic verses from others because he was the one who was given this task by our rasool[saw] in 1st place.

And I also believe due to political reasons nobody approached Imam Ali[as] who claimed to have authentic quran with exact chapters and verses....Have they did !!...We never would have had this many sects.

Coming back to the topic, zaid was appointed the role of collecting the quran [oral and written ] into one volume [book]....It was of utmost importance for H. Abu bakr because during that time they had few wars in which large number of people who memorized quran by heart perished.

Now when zaid bhai completed the task he left all the documents with H.Abu bakr who inturn gave it to H.Umar who inturn gave it to others in his family...I guess his daughter.

Now why both H.Abu bakr and H.Umar did not publish the quran [only allah[swt] knows]...But I think that they were not sure as to how to progress with it...as people who contributed in compiling this book still had those verses with them [they were not burned until the arrival of H. Uthman]

I personally dont think that even H.Uthman would have done it had people did not read in different dialects [there were different tribes as you know]...This might have made him think what if people start differing among themselves...Hence he took the decision to compile a unified quran whose original language was that of "quraysh"

I think H.Uthman's sole purpose was to eliminate the differences in dialects...Nothing more !!!

thank you for your response.

The response has increased my knowledge.

But just to get things straight, let me put our discussion point wise so that you can correct me if there is something i misunderstood.

1. Prophet ensured that once he gets a "wahi", it was written down by sahabas and this was done during the period of 20+ years and it was in chronological order because it was written whenever Prophet gets a "wahi"

2. some little time after the demise of the Prophet, Abu Bakar ordered Zaid bin Thabit to collect scattered Quranic parts amongst umma.

3. Uthman established a commision of 4 people (including Zaid bin Thabit) to compile Quran in a standard book form and destroy all writtings of Quran held amongst umma.


if the above is true, then there were two set of collections of Quran.

(a) Collection which Prophet ensured that "wahis" to him were written down by sahabas (according to the hadith you provided)

(b) Collection by Zaid bin Thabit from the umma.

now my questions are

1. what was the source of the standardized compiled Quran (a) ? or (b) ?

2. were both the collections were destroyed after compilation of the Quran ?

[shiraz.virani]

if the above is true, then there were two set of collections of Quran.

(a) Collection which Prophet ensured that "wahis" to him were written down by sahabas (according to the hadith you provided)

(b) Collection by Zaid bin Thabit from the umma.

now my questions are

1. what was the source of the standardized compiled Quran (a) ? or (b) ?

2. were both the collections were destroyed after compilation of the Quran ?

The standard quran is that which zaid bhai collected...Allow me to elaborate. As I said in my previous post, during the time of H.abu bakr they had few wars in which most of the shahabas who wrote down the scripture and memorized it died...Hence H.abu bakr gave the job of compiling the holy scripture to zaid bhai ...Sahabas may have died but not their work...so whichever material they wrote on was collected by this zaid bhai along with 3 others who finally finished the task and handed over the document to abu bakr. I also wanna let you know that zaid bhai himself was a writer[scripture] and thats the reason why H.Abu bakr may have felt that this is the guy who can help him compile the scripture.

Also there were not enough A's at the time when B was busy compiling the quran but those who were alive, helped him assemble the scripture...So the source was A [sahabas and zaid himself]...but their job was finished by B [zaid bhai who collected everything]

Coming to your 2nd question....Interesting question again !!

I think so yeh thats what happened....After zaid bhai did his job and when H.Uthman became caliph and when this problem arised...H.Uthman ordered zaid bhai along with 3 other qurayshis to make sure that at any point if they do not agree with what zaid bhai is saying...then try to simplify it in their own language.

Interestingly if you read hadith of bukhari it is said that after its compilation was done...zaid bhai all of a sudden realized that there was one verse that he forgot to add in the book, so he informed H.Uthman who ordered them to find it before they put anything in the quran and luckily it seems the verse that zaid bhai thought he missed was found at some other guys scrolls and later put into holy quran.

Again the question arises and that is....When H.Abu bakr received all the documents from zaid bhai...Did he read it ???....If he memorized the whole quran as some say along with H.Umar and his daughter... then why is it that they did not realize that there was a verse missing in one of the surah ??? Did this happen because of human error or did they actually memorized the holy quran ??

What do you think ???