Explaination needed of Koran Ayat.

[zznoor]

Agakhani
What a humbug talk, sister!! Let me ask you this when you tilawat Noble Quran then are you skiping this Sura?? GIVE ME HONEST REPLY, IF YOU READ THIS SURA THEN YOU ARE ALSO KAFIR.

I read this Sura in every Sunna prayer. (Sunna Namaaz is one you pray in addition to Fird prayer)
Now tell me how I am Kafir (non believer in Islam).

Please note, I have not called you Kafir. I do not really know you.

[zznoor]

I thought the entire Qu'ran was for Muslims?

From your posts - it seems you consider us Kafiroon - not accepting our interpretation of the Faith that the Prophet brought.

Like I said - to you yours..to me/us - mine/ours.

No. No way I have called anybody Kafir. I do not know you guys.
What I meant to point out that Muslims use " Lakum din kum Wally din" to justify their religious practices.

Example: Namaaz and Dua.
Those performing Dua will justify it by pointing out 109:6

I pray traditional Namaaz. I have no opinion on validity of Dua.

[nuseri]

To Virani:

It is better to express one's own conviction then to read n quote from a book with no conviction of one own self.( a rationalist with no faith)

The gallant verses from Hinduism Which you copy pasted , was defining what is GOD rather than where he is?

It is very unfortunate the follower of those very sayings found GOD (where?) in idols till date.

They still have over 18400 cycles of life to come into the faith of ours of where they can see GOD.

There are over few hundred book of different faiths n religion which tries to tell what n where is GOD?

I simply follow the Farmans n practice Ibadat to convince myself rather read somebody promoting Hinduism/Sunnism and rationalist propaganda/links.

ADMIN NEED TO TAKE A CALL ON THAT VERY SERIOUSLY

It is very sad that you not an Ismaili n blessed with our Farmans n Ibadat to be convinced as other Momins who have just few previous postings express their absolute faith in our Imam (ALI).
I congratulate n salute them.

Question to you: Where is GOD?
In two just lines ONLY from your educated mind.
Let the Forum know your faith visavis them
.
We Ismailis may be destinated to Hell because of our conviction.

But you are surely confirming yourself to 'Hot n Happening'
destination afterlife.

[Admin]

Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah stated that Ismailis can be found in all places except in Hell.

[shiraz.virani]

It is better to express one's own conviction then to read n quote from a book with no conviction of one own self.( a rationalist with no faith)

Right !!....I'm a rationalist who treats other religions as second class....I'm a rationalist who does not believe quran in entirety yet wants some clarification on certain aayats.

The gallant verses from Hinduism Which you copy pasted , was defining what is GOD rather than where he is?

As usual you read those verses without applying intellect which is common thing for you.

I am the Supersoul, seated in the hearts of all living entities. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings.

What does in the hearts of all living entities mean babaji ??...Does that mean god resides in all of us or God is a copyright stuff of ismailis only [as per you] ??

We recite in our holy dua 3 times a day

1:2 Praise belongs to God, Lord of the Worlds,

What makes you think god will restrict himself into ismaili imams only ??

It is very unfortunate the follower of those very sayings found GOD (where?) in idols till date.

I dont have to look here and there to find god, for god resides in all of us and thats what Im trying to show your from day 1...Since you're god fearing and not god loving you idolize god into beings that in return are created by god himself.

They still have over 18400 cycles of life to come into the faith of ours of where they can see GOD.

So you're saying all this time you been playing disco dandiya with us with all your ali allah theory ??....When its gonna take 18,400 cycles to see god why then come up with idiotic stories ??

I simply follow the Farmans n practice Ibadat to convince myself rather read somebody promoting Hinduism/Sunnism and rationalist propaganda/links.

You call yourself an ibadati ??...An ibadati is the one who doesnt differentiate between the night and the day [different faith].....An ibadati is the one who is soft heart and not corrupt hearted. For ibadati is the one who Worship one god but you my friend worship an idol. So please do not compare yourself with those who are mentally and spiritually sound.

In the year 1962 in nairobi where the jamat was busy giving themselves the title or in some cases were writing letters to imam e zaman to make them Vazir, Count or Itmadi. You know what our imam said :

"If you start wanting to be called Vazir or Count or Itmadi, this is a very big mistake. We are not going to become the type of worldly minded people who are know to muslims as KAFIROON.......What is important is the light that you have in your hearts which you get from prayers".

Nairobi Oct 5, 1962

I am the Supersoul, seated in the hearts of all living entities. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings.

What is important is the light that you have in your hearts which you get from prayers.

What is the similarity between what Krishna said and what Mawlana Hazar Imam said ??? Do you see any similarity between the two ??

Plus on top of that, when hazar imam got upset with this name calling in between the jamat how would he feel when ignorant's like you make him and treat him like god ??

It is very sad that you not an Ismaili n blessed with our Farmans n Ibadat to be convinced as other Momins who have just few previous postings express their absolute faith in our Imam (ALI).
I congratulate n salute them.

And its very sad that you're an ismaili by birth but the faith is yet to reach your heart.

Question to you: Where is GOD?
In two just lines ONLY from your educated mind.
Let the Forum know your faith visavis them

God resides in all of us....as mawlana sultan mohammad shah said

Islamic doctrine goes further than the other great religions, for it proclaims the presence of the soul, perhaps minute but nevertheless existing in an embryonic state, in all existence - in matter, in animals, trees, and space itself. Every individual, every molecule, every atom has its own spiritual relationship with the All-Powerful Soul of God.

We Ismailis may be destinated to Hell because of our conviction.

Stop trying to categorize all ismailis as NUSERIS .... Speak for yourself brother for I know many ismailis that does not hold the same view like you do...Plus talking about Imam Ali[as] birth place being kaaba...Do you even know our rasool[saw] along with Imam Ali[as] demolished all the idols that were there in kaaba ??

But you are surely confirming yourself to 'Hot n Happening'
destination afterlife.

Lets just leave that on your god that resides in imam[as] and my god that resides everywhere

[nuseri]

To Virani:

If you knew what Imam SMS/ALIi said 'where is GOD"?

Why are you moving in wheelchair( excessive copy paste n links) taking quote of Hinduism/others,like a spineless person.

If God(soul) is in every human being,BUT GOD cannot be a human being.

Only fools/rationalist imagine GOD as animals, all type of meta physical definition of all matters n substance of the universe for him.

I have not understood your definition of an 'Idol'.

Hazar Imam/ALI is not an Idol ( a molded figure made out of earthy material),he is a Human being.

It is better to believe n worship a human being than something Imaginary
with various descriptions because. I am a human being with eyes with a soul.

Ismaili scholars can tell as taught by our Pirs that Lord Krishna was either one of 6/7/8 Avtaar of ALI.(I am least interested in Googling it).He was also a human being and spoke as GOD as a first person while addressing Arjun.I do not know much about Hinduism nor is required by me.

I feel Paach pandav of the forum plus Shakespeare n no ..2782...
can inform better the link between Krishna and ALI/Imamat.

[shiraz.virani]

To Virani:

If you knew what Imam SMS/ALIi said 'where is GOD"?

Why are you moving in wheelchair( excessive copy paste n links) taking quote of Hinduism/others,like a spineless person.

1st of there is no such thing called hinduism...It is muslims who 1st went to india named hindi speaking people as HINDUS....The religion of so called hindu's in its purest form is a satpanth religion [ You might have heard this many times in ginans ] ...But they had some so called hindus who had this power of freezing [FOOLING] people and that led to downfall of those who followed them. But even today if read upanishad's, vedas...and if you put beside it all the religious scriptures, you wont find much of a difference between the word of god.

If God(soul) is in every human being,BUT GOD cannot be a human being.

Wrong !!!...God can manifest in any shape/size and form...Remember the story of H.Musa[as] on mountain and how god communicated with him ?? So yes god can manifest in any form and is not restricted to ismaili imams only.

Only fools/rationalist imagine GOD as animals, all type of meta physical definition of all matters n substance of the universe for him.

I get your point but do thing animals like human beings pray and praise allah[swt] ???

I have not understood your definition of an 'Idol'.Hazar Imam/ALI is not an Idol ( a molded figure made out of earthy material),he is a Human being.

Idol in literal sense is an object [Image [bapa jo photo], or any other object [material] that represents a deity that people worship with devotion BLINDLY.

It is better to believe n worship a human being than something Imaginary with various descriptions because. I am a human being with eyes with a soul.

The human being that you worship himself is the creation of allah[swt].....Plus you cannot see your soul but you still believe in it, why ??? The reason why Imams[as] are ever living on this earth is to guide murids. But the problem with people like you is instead of holding onto the rope of imamat you take that rope to be allah[swt] himself.

Im repeating my self again here for you brother....If you believe in human gods that is completely ok with me...but dont use the word WE, please use the word I because thats your opinion.

Ismaili scholars can tell as taught by our Pirs that Lord Krishna was either one of 6/7/8 Avtaar of ALI.(I am least interested in Googling it).He was also a human being and spoke as GOD as a first person while addressing Arjun.I do not know much about Hinduism nor is required by me.

Lets agree that lord krishna [who was a prophet and not an imam] was Ali[as]...but what message did he gave to arjuna ??....Did he said here I'am start reciting your tasbih [Haq ali ali ali, bhaag ali ali ali] and I'll show you some interesting tricks as to how to freeze 1000 people ??...Or did he described god to be anywhere and everywhere.

I feel Paach pandav of the forum plus Shakespeare n no ..2782...
can inform better the link between Krishna and ALI/Imamat.

They already have !!!....Just do some research on this forum...When I first came on this forum I was just like you...I never used to understand why KMAHERALI bhai or AMIN bhai or SHAMSB bhai / STAR MUNIR bhai are giving us hindu references....I'll just give you one suggestion, be open minded.

If you think ali is allah[swt], it might be !!!....But just dont treat other faiths or in this regard your own ismaili brother as second class.

Feel blessed and stay safe

Yaa Ali Madad.

[nuseri]

To virani: your replies are not convincing n beating around the bush.

To idolize a personality(i.e film stars) for a given period and physical molded Idols have totally different meaning
If a person keeps a family foto of his family on a office table or in his wallet ,it does not define a person as a Idol worshiper.
So what if any one carry or keep his 'Spiritual Father' foto, that is also a part of the Family.
You keep posting with limited biased angle and out of frustration.

To you Lord Krishna a human being sayings is of 'absolute GOD' .the way u bombarded those messages.(dime a dozen from motorized wheelchair)
Krishna is Bhagwan (GOD)
you have a soul,which is GOD.
Why cannot the Imam be GOD for believers?

The metaphysical shape, size and form are attributes explaining his power of what is GOD.
It Baffles a non believer how a normal human being be embedded with those virtues.
IBADAT N BAATIN BLESSINGS IS NEEDED.? N just not reading n Googling.
Both are hallmark and signs of of our great Sufi faith of Ismailism.
Convert to a real Ismaili than act as an Ismaili with stench of Al Islah ( anti Imam) afffiliation.

[agakhani]

AAP SHARIAT SE HAQIQAT ME JUMP LEE LO GAY.

Nuseri,

Thanks for your comments but let me clear it here I never practiced on so called Sunny Shariyat , never never and never in my life nor I visited any Sunny/Shia Mosque in my life except our Jamat Khanas.

I, agree with you that we Ismailis are above the Shariyat and our aim should be to reach Marifat and then 'ASAL ME VASAL HO.

[zznoor]

AAP SHARIAT SE HAQIQAT ME JUMP LEE LO GAY.

Nuseri,

Thanks for your comments but let me clear it here I never practiced on so called Sunny Shariyat , never never and never in my life nor I visited any Sunny/Shia Mosque in my life except our Jamat Khanas.

Islam as given to Prophet SAW requires, Shahada, Salah, Swam, Zalkat and Hujj if you can afford it. These are required things and Prophet of Islam practiced it after he became Prophet and till he died.

Hz Ali and Imams practiced it and I understand Imam 48 practiced it.
Why do you use word Shariati and insult billions of Sunni and Shia Muslims who practice 5 traditional prayers and Roza in Ramadan starting probably tomorrow?
I can understand Khoja Ismailis do not have to do Salat and Swam.
But why this hateful words?


I, agree with you that we Ismailis are above the Shariyat

who told you you are better than Shariyati? Do you have separate holy book from above? Khoja Ismailism must be separate religion. It is belief and nobody has come back after he died and said this religion and Tariqa is correct.

and our aim should be to reach Marifat and then 'ASAL ME VASAL HO.
I do not see this quest to reach Marifat in Quran but I wish you best

i am not wishing you Ramadan Kareem since it is not part of your religion. But best luck that you achive asal me Wasal. Let us know when that happens.


Chat with you after a month.

[shiraz.virani]

To virani: your replies are not convincing n beating around the bush.

We are not playing convince/convince here....It is all upto you, nobody's forcing you to !!!

To idolize a personality(i.e film stars) for a given period and physical molded Idols have totally different meaning

How is it different ??

If a person keeps a family foto of his family on a office table or in his wallet ,it does not define a person as a Idol worshiper.
So what if any one carry or keep his 'Spiritual Father' foto, that is also a part of the Family.

Yeh but I don't Idolize any of my family member's like you do. You dont take them [family members] as Wasila. Our imams[as] are our real wasila [like we do in our dua]....All human beings would be called upon by their respective imams mentioned in quran...Allah[swt] will ask those humans on that day.. what imams[as] have taught us and what we learned from them.

17:71 One day We shall call together all human beings with their (respective) Imams: those who are given their record in their right hand will read it (with pleasure), and they will not be dealt with unjustly in the least.

You dont to worry though...You can do your usual Haq ali ali, disco dandiya ali ali on that day when the imams will show what they taught and what babajis like you learned.

You keep posting with limited biased angle and out of frustration.

Are bhai ab toh quran ke hawale se bhi samjha diya maine tujhe...aur kya chahiye ?? Ab ander ghus jao kya tere ??

To you Lord Krishna a human being sayings is of 'absolute GOD' .the way u bombarded those messages.(dime a dozen from motorized wheelchair)
Krishna is Bhagwan (GOD)
you have a soul,which is GOD.
Why cannot the Imam be GOD for believers?

Are mere pappu pager...I said god is not limited to ismaili imams only...Im saying what imam sultan muhammad shah said in his memoirs that every atom, every molecule has its own relationship with allah[swt].

And If krishna is bhagwan = god [as per you], why then Imam sultan muhammad shah referred to him as a prophet ?? And plus atleast know the actual SANSKRIT meaning of "bhagwan" before you put your garbage theory on full display.

It's the same quran that orders us muslims to treat every prophet equally [which includes shri krishna]...And uses the term SABIANS for non abhramic traditions. Krishna unlike other prophets was sent to indian continent to teach people to belief in one god.

Instead of following his teachings, people started worshipping him as GOD ...I guess there were NUSERI'S at that time as well...Same goes with christians who treat jesus as god/ son of god.

The metaphysical shape, size and form are attributes explaining his power of what is GOD.

Same thing happened with prophet jesus[pbuh]...He used to perform miracles [the power bestowed on him by allah[swt]] and people instead of worshiping allah[swt] started worshiping Jesus[pbuh]

It Baffles a non believer how a normal human being be embedded with those virtues.

Eactly my point !!!....Human being embedded with those virtues...but virtues given by whom ?? Is it allah[swt] or bappa jo photo ?? lol

IBADAT N BAATIN BLESSINGS IS NEEDED.? N just not reading n Googling. Both are hallmark and signs of of our great Sufi faith of Ismailism. Convert to a real Ismaili than act as an Ismaili with stench of Al Islah ( anti Imam) afffiliation.

Oh so real ismaili as per you is the one who treats imam e zaman as god....Sahi jaa raha hai bhai tu !!!

Just because tune mujhe suggestion diya hai toh I guess Ill return the favor and request you :

Pehle acha insaan ban, Ismaili toh tu khud ba khud ban jayega

Yaa Ali Madad

[nuseri]

To Virani
In earlier posting(dime a dozen of copy paste).
you have posted as Krishna addressing Arjun

as 'I' am the ocean,'I'am the beginning and end ans many valid sign n form of GOD/ALI.

Please answer in just one r two lines

1.Was Krishna a human being saying this 'I'' I' 'I' this n that ,which is NOT NOT possible for a human being to define himself?

2.Was Krishna really a 'GOD",as he spoke in perfect power n vocabulary of GOD?

I may subscribe to this one as personification of GOD/ALI/IMAM

3.Was GOD was in charge of Krishna's sense of Speech and spoke as "I"
out of his body?

YOU JUST DO NOT KNOW WHAT R U POSTING,TRYING TO AVENGE REPLIES DEFINITELY NOT OUT OF YOUR BRAIN.

Please sum up all your reading/googling n reply in one or max 3 lines.

Copy pasting is easy for an ill informed person and barrage of those
indicates visit needed by you to the Shrink.

zznoor: make it four appointment including the one more for the 'prediction dates'

[nuseri]

A simple question and the answer needed in just few words or a single line.Reasoning can be debated later if answers differs between forum members.

WAS 'QURAN' BESTOWED/ADDRESSED TO HUMANITY BY

ALLAH OR NABI MOHAMMED (PBUH)?

[shiraz.virani]

To Virani
In earlier posting(dime a dozen of copy paste).
you have posted as Krishna addressing Arjun

Yes !!

Please answer in just one r two lines

I'll try !!!

1.Was Krishna a human being saying this 'I'' I' 'I' this n that ,which is NOT NOT possible for a human being to define himself?

There are few things that your brain cells have to process :

1] Krishna's story is very veryyyy much like that of H.Issa[as]....Both were born without sexual intercourse...Ab yeh bhi dekho bhai ki both the mothers has to run here and there to save their child....Be it bibi maryam or Mata Devaki....Similarity dikh rahi hai ya nai bhai ??

2] As H.Essa[as] was bestowed by supernatural powers, H.dawood[as] had a beautiful voice....H Suleman[as] had the power of wind etc etc etc...Same thing happened in the past with the prophet named "KRISHNA". Allah[swt] in the past has bestowed his favors on many many prophets..So please remember its allah[swt] not Shri Krishna who performed all those miracles.

2.Was Krishna really a 'GOD",as he spoke in perfect power n vocabulary of GOD?

All the prophets in the past spoke the truth and in perfect power and vocabulary....There are prophets that were bestowed with some special powers but that power ultimately come from allah[swt]

I may subscribe to this one as personification of GOD/ALI/IMAM

Bible- Hebrews 1:1

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways

3.Was GOD was in charge of Krishna's sense of Speech and spoke as "I" out of his body?

Might be soooo !!!

Please sum up all your reading/googling n reply in one or max 3 lines.

Krishna was a prophet of god and not god himself...Like god said in quran[last book] that he has sent prophets [124000] to the whole humanity.

[agakhani]

Shiraz,

Did Lord Krishna was Imam?

Yes, as per SMS and our various pirs.

Proof are below:-

1, Read "Das Avatar" two different granths, s small one and a big one composed by pir Sadardin and Syed Imamshah in these two great granths both pirs considered Lord Krishna as our Imam or you can tell him holder of Allah's Noor.

2, In "Vishnupuri" a genealogy of Imams before Hazarat Ali (s.a) composed by pir Sadardin, pir also mentioned Krishna as a Imam.

3, Sultan Mohammed Shah ( s.a.) once visited "Mathura/Gokul" where Krishna was born and raised, SMS told the present leaders that I have played here many times with gopies and eat butter here ; means SMS were Krishna before, please remember that all Imams have same noor whether that noor reside in Krishna body or Sultan Mohammed shah (s.a.) body or Hazarat Ali (s.a.) body noor remain same.

[shiraz.virani]

Shiraz,

Did Lord Krishna was Imam?

Yes, as per SMS and our various pirs.

Proof are below:-

1, Read "Das Avatar" two different granths, s small one and a big one composed by pir Sadardin and Syed Imamshah in these two great granths both pirs considered Lord Krishna as our Imam or you can tell him holder of Allah's Noor.

2, In "Vishnupuri" a genealogy of Imams before Hazarat Ali (s.a) composed by pir Sadardin, pir also mentioned Krishna as a Imam.

3, Sultan Mohammed Shah ( s.a.) once visited "Mathura/Gokul" where Krishna was born and raised, SMS told the present leaders that I have played here many times with gopies and eat butter here ; means SMS were Krishna before, please remember that all Imams have same noor whether that noor reside in Krishna body or Sultan Mohammed shah (s.a.) body or Hazarat Ali (s.a.) body noor remain same.

I would humbly disagree with you because the same sultan muhammad shah[as] said in his memoirs :

First, however, we must ask ourselves why this final and consummate appearance of the Divine Will was granted to mankind, and what were its causes. All Islamic schools of thought accept it as a fundamental principle that for centuries, for thousands of years before the advent of Mohammed, there arose from time to time messengers, illumined by Divine Grace for and among those races of the earth which had sufficiently advanced intellectually to comprehend such a message. Thus Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all the Prophets of Israel are universally accepted by Islam. Muslims indeed know no limitation merely to the Prophets of Israel; they are ready to admit that there were similar Divinely inspired messengers in other countries -- Gautama Buddha, Shri Krishna and Shri Ram in India, Socrates in Greece, the wise men of China, and many other sages and saints among peoples and civilizations, trace of which we have lost.

Thus man's soul has never been left without a specially inspired messenger from the soul that sustains, embraces and is the universe. Then what need was there for a Divine revelation to Mohammed?

The answer of Islam is precise and clear. In spite of its great spiritual strength, Jewish monotheism has retained two characteristics which render it essentially different from Islamic monotheism: God has remained, in spite of all, a national and racial God for the children of Israel, and His personality is entirely separate from its supreme manifestation, the Universe. In far-distant countries such as India and China, the purity of the Faith in the one God had been so vitiated by polytheism, by idolatry and even by a pantheism which was hardly distinguishable from atheism that these popular and folklore religions bore little resemblance to that which emanated from the true and pure Godhead

Memoirs of AgaKhan III - Islam, the religion of my Ancestors

[nuseri]

Very well said agakhani ( Isko Imaan aur Elam kahte hai)

Virani has utmost disregard for Imams n Farmans, which are pure truth for us,as He is not an Ismaili ( a disgraced Isnashari),which all are knowing except you.

The speech and statement made by Imam SMS and as Agakhan in memoirs at Zahiri level used by prove his futile points.
600 million Hindus believe in Krishna as GOD.

He is trying to bombard to tell me as Arjun as
words 0f GOD.He is now falling in his own trap,he is denying the concept of GOD/ALI as a Human (Krishna in earlier era)

With the theory of Das Avatar n words of Imam SMS.

We Haqiqati endorse that see our Imam As GOD.

Speeches n Farman of Imam may contradict at Zahiri level.(Zahiri Interpreters who are akin to braying n barking of ONLY Zahiri side of it) )

Many wise see our IMAM as Personification of GOD.

An educated infidel n hatred will challenge, presuming he had read a Lot n know more about religion of the world.

I presume this Isnashari is staying over geological fault line of earth.
please research what is brewing underneath?

Heavy SHOCK can be from year 2013-2030 as per your scientific community.

[shiraz.virani]

Very well said agakhani ( Isko Imaan aur Elam kahte hai)

I told you in my earlier posts that agakhani bhai is wayyy more haqiqati that you or your ancestors can ever be...Even though sometimes we disagree with each other, theres mutual respect among ourselves and thats what islam teaches us.

Virani has utmost disregard for Imams n Farmans, which are pure truth for us,as He is not an Ismaili ( a disgraced Isnashari),which all are knowing except you.

Firman ??...Abe Im the one who gave sooo many references from firmans where MHI used to term KAAFIRON....And wussup with this sunni/ ishna shari etc etc....stick to the topic and if you have nothing to say then just shut up

And btw when did I disrespected the firmans ?? Andha hai kya ??

The speech and statement made by Imam SMS and as Agakhan in memoirs at Zahiri level used by prove his futile points.
600 million Hindus believe in Krishna as GOD.

Read what is said in same memoir :

In far-distant countries such as India and China, the purity of the Faith in the one God had been so vitiated by polytheism, by idolatry and even by a pantheism which was hardly distinguishable from atheism that these popular and folklore religions bore little resemblance to that which emanated from the true and pure Godhead

He is trying to bombard to tell me as Arjun as
words 0f GOD.He is now falling in his own trap,he is denying the concept of GOD/ALI as a Human (Krishna in earlier era)

When did I said krishna was god ??....You're getting left and right on every single post especially a post that is pointed to VIRANI....so open your eyes and read what I have written.

With the theory of Das Avatar n words of Imam SMS.

Theory...Jaake matlab samajh theory ka phir aake bakwaas kar

We Haqiqati endorse that see our Imam As GOD.

Phir "WE" ??? Hum toh doobenge saanjhna, tumko bhi le doobenge

Speeches n Farman of Imam may contradict at Zahiri level.(Zahiri Interpreters who are akin to braying n barking of ONLY Zahiri side of it) )

Just because of scumbags like you the whole community has to suffer...No single firmans of MHI contradicts at any level...Its dhakkan's like you who in order to hide your IZZAT use these terms.

Many wise see our IMAM as Personification of GOD.

You call yourself wise ??....All wise people would commit suicide if they hear this.

An educated infidel n hatred will challenge, presuming he had read a Lot n know more about religion of the world.

Yaar I never knew ki infidels mein bhi class hoti hai....educated and uneducated. But dont worry I would love to be called an infidel for refusing to believe your ali allah theory

I presume this Isnashari is staying over geological fault line of earth.
please research what is brewing underneath?

Heavy SHOCK can be from year 2013-2030 as per your scientific community.

Stop jumping from one topic to another....If you have anything useful to say or debate you're welcome to do so.

[nuseri]

To virani:

You are jumping.expressing with confidence as sayings of GOD and later to undermining n disregard status of Krishna of that sayings.

AASTIN KA SAAP ME BHI TUMARE JYAADA SAAF IMMAN HOGA.

The sayings you posted to impress upon me were they GOD's saying or a human being boasting n spilling out crap?
Please answer in one word ONLY ,When u first decided to use this references.( Reasoning can be given later).You were convinced it to be:

A) GOD sayings or B) Crap a Human being.

We will DEFINETELY take the debate forward upon your answer.

Heaven n Hell is the status of the mind of the person.

AAP KA DIMAG HAI FAULTY

AAP KA THIKANA HAI FAULTY

AAPKA DIMAG KOI DOZAK SE KUM NAHI

AAPK THIKANA DOZAK SE DUR NAHI.

BUS JEE LO JAB TAK HAI 'ALI' KI REHMAT HAI TUM PE.

[ismaili103]

ti shiraz virani:

if u say that Krishna(ali) is prophet it might be possible. because as per me krishna is Imam of thy time and an Imam can be prophet(pir) of the time as we all kno that Imam SMS and MHI have both the authority Imam and Pir...

so Krishna(ALI) is both Imam and Pir

THE THEORY OF ALI ALLAH:

if u not belive in ALI ALLAH theory plzz first give reason for not belive in that.i can bet u have no reason frm any ismaili source and if u give any reason i can bet these reason are frm any sunni and ithnashari source.....and i can give u many source of GINANS, which indicate that ALI is ALLAH...and at last after reading these source u wrote in this forum that IMAM is not ALLAh then u r attempting GUNAAH-e-KABIRA on a top list..

the source of ALI ALLAH r:-

ginan HAK TUN PAAK TUN
2)DAS AVATAR(both)
3)ANANTH AKHADO
4)TARIYE TUN TARAN HAAR KHUDAVAND
5)ALLAH EK KHASAM SUB KAA
6)MOMAN CHITVAINI
7)MUMAN CHETAMNI
8)VISHNUPURI
9)OLD GHAT PAATH DUA
10) OLD ISMAILI KALIMAA

and many GINANS and FIRMAANS of IMAM SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH and IMAM SHAH ALISHAH MAA BAAP...

for mee ALI is NOT ALLAH......ALI is more then ALLAH....to say ALI is ALLAH is insulting him(ALI).......ALI is only ALI

ALI kaa martaba to kon samajh paaya
kisi ne BANDA kaha to kisi ne KHUDA

[shiraz.virani]

You are jumping.expressing with confidence as sayings of GOD and later to undermining n disregard status of Krishna of that sayings.

Those are sayings of god and I stand by it !!!....You are the one who'z saying god is found ONLY and ONLY in imams.... Where as I said god is not restricted to ismaili imams only !!!....I still stand by it

Secondly, I gave your references from many scriptures where god used to communicate through prophets....Ye jaane de, khud quran utha ke padh...Oh I forgot that you're a hypocrite who things quran is not the word of god and yet recite the same surahs in our holy dua

AASTIN KA SAAP ME BHI TUMARE JYAADA SAAF IMMAN HOGA.

Tu freeze karke dekha kya ?? hehehe

The sayings you posted to impress upon me were they GOD's saying or a human being boasting n spilling out crap?
Please answer in one word ONLY ,When u first decided to use this references.( Reasoning can be given later).You were convinced it to be:

A) GOD sayings or B) Crap a Human being.

We will DEFINETELY take the debate forward upon your answer.

God speaking through prophet....Remember I said god is not restricted to imams only...but you AKL is my friend

Heaven n Hell is the status of the mind of the person.

Mentioned not in 1 or 2 but all the scriptures.

AAP KA DIMAG HAI FAULTY

AAP KA THIKANA HAI FAULTY

AAPKA DIMAG KOI DOZAK SE KUM NAHI

AAPK THIKANA DOZAK SE DUR NAHI.

BUS JEE LO JAB TAK HAI 'ALI' KI REHMAT HAI TUM PE.

Very good...Ab roz dua ke baad 3 time yeh mantra padh...Jaldi pohoch jayega apne mukaam pe


Lemme say this one more time....God is not limitied to ismaili imams only, God can be found anywhere and everywhere...Our imams are our source[wasila] to reach god and this is bestowed on us because we have not reached that level where our brain cells can comprehend the divine.

Imamat is the highest rank bestowed by god....and you are right they [imams] are divinely inspired but inspired by who ??

You don't know much about hinduism and Im not blaming you for that but just like islam is split into so many different sects...same thing goes in hinduism....Every sect regards vedas to be authentic but the way they perceive god is different or in other words have different concept of god .....Theres one school of thought or sub sect in hinduism called Advaita Vedta/Vedanta[spell check]. According to this school god is only one, However due to the effect of maya [illusions] god manifested in the minds of human beings as DEVI-DEVTAS [Idols]. The original sanskrit term for god is "ISHWAR" or "ISHWARA"[spell check] which means " One, Spiritual, Formless, Omnipotent and perfect...Pretty much like the arabic word "RABB".

It further goes on to say that god is present in every living thing [ humans, animals, plants and matter [Very much like what Imam sultan muhammad shah[as] said]. They also believe that our human body or material life is illusion too and that there is a level higher than this called "Level of reality" and when a person reaches that level there is no more illusions or anything but only one spirit [Ishwar/Ishwara]

Now you said you wanna proceed further with the debate but how can we do this when we both disagree on almost everything ?? ....Instead of coming up with proofs you are busy tagging me as Sunni, Ishna shari and now as an Infidel ?? How can we proceed with such shallow mindedness ??

[nuseri]

virani: you wrote.

'' Those are saying of GOD n I stand by it.''

By that conviction one has agrees to the human body of Krishna and absolute 'SOUL' of god in Baatin (zahir is body n baatin in the soul of absoluteGOD who defines himself as creator).

In the same way Haqiqati Ismailis see ALI/ Hazar Imam

with Zahir body of a IMAM n soul of absolute GOD. n not a spark as in a ordinary human being.
It was either way Krishna spoke as GOD r GOD spoke as Krishna,the entity was one.(only coward will go back on his/her words)

People around him did NOT see two physical entity n neither he was fooling people with gallant sayings

GOD has be found in absolute status in (Uniiversal Soul) a Human
bieng that is the HAZAR IMAM as believed is Ismaili Faith.

Only Ismailis are blessed with Krishna of Today.

The speech of Imam SMS mentioned the names of prophet
and named Krishna with 'divine presence'

Krishna does not come under cycles of Prophet BUT the lineage of Imams.
I wish Haqiqati scholars may able to expand it better.

Is is very very sad with your unfortunate stand to be sure Krishna as n his sayings as GOD n that also few thousand years ago and not have faith In Hazar Imam.

Your presumably educated mind is in conflict with your soul.

I need to go on for more AYATs( the one mentioning throne) n look foward to baatin rather than Zahiri debate.

[nuseri]

IMAMAT DAY MUBARAKI TO ALL.

To Ismaili103: Ya ali madad Where art thou?.

A nice researched posting with absolute conviction.I hope the anti Imam entity replies to you.

To all:I had posted a simple quiz on' Quran' on 8th of July need simple answers.Please try n answer that post.

To all Umedwars at ADMIN:

Maintian the Haqaqiti platform.Please moderate anti,mocker r underminer of our Imams .Dignity n Decorum of our Imam in this site is your hands.You all do have to answer ALI when your times come.

EXCELLENT TEAM WORK ON A GOOD SCALE N REACH.

A couplet for all Khidmatghars:

DILO JAAN SE KARO AASHIQUE AUR KHIDMAT ALI KI MOMINO

FIKR RAHENGE USEE HAMARI, HUM SE JYAADA HUR PAL MOMINO.

[agakhani]

I would humbly disagree with you because the same sultan muhammad shah[as] said in his memoirs :

Nobody should agree with me but whatever I wrote above is taken from ginans and waez.

Many peoples do not agree with Ismaili sect, its tradition, ritual and customs, they think Ismailis are Kafirs and they are not true Muslims.
I agree that there are many misunderstanding going on amongst other Muslims that Ismailis do not believe in Quran, Ismailis do not believe in keeping Roza, Ismailis do not go for Hajj e.t.c but in my thinking non of Ismaili imam has prohibited them not to go for hajj, or not to keep roza or do not believe in Quran!.

About Memoirs:-
BTW Whatever SMS wrote in his memoirs has been written keeping in mind the general public not Ismailis only, therefore what he wrote in Memoirs are totally different then what you can find in Kaame Imam e Mubin'
In this farman books you can find "Batini/Ruhani/Haqiqi and many topics for a example Imamat, Zahoorat e.t.c.

[ismaili103]

to shiraz virani:

I saw one thing u wrote many time that ALLAH is not only in ismaili imams. god is not restricted to ismaili imams only....I know that GOD is every where in every ATOM of universe

vishnu= vishva + aanu
(universe)+(Atom)
but plzz understand one thing we are not in that possition that we r not able to understand GOD we have limited AQAL even PIR paigamber cant understand HIM(GOD) ....even in Ginan pir said NABI MUHAMMED take time of (8 LAKH karan) to Know who is GOD

one KARAN= 33 crore years
8 lakh karan= 330000000 * 800000

so how can we understand HIM if some one say GOD is in every ATOM of UNIVERSE he is absolutly right. if some one say he is MANIFEST as imam he is absolutly right. if some one say he is POWER which control universe then again that person is absoulutly right.....

have a nice day

[shiraz.virani]

to shiraz virani:

I saw one thing u wrote many time that ALLAH is not only in ismaili imams. god is not restricted to ismaili imams only....I know that GOD is every where in every ATOM of universe

vishnu= vishva + aanu
(universe)+(Atom)
but plzz understand one thing we are not in that possition that we r not able to understand GOD we have limited AQAL even PIR paigamber cant understand HIM(GOD) ....even in Ginan pir said NABI MUHAMMED take time of (8 LAKH karan) to Know who is GOD

one KARAN= 33 crore years
8 lakh karan= 330000000 * 800000

so how can we understand HIM if some one say GOD is in every ATOM of UNIVERSE he is absolutly right. if some one say he is MANIFEST as imam he is absolutly right. if some one say he is POWER which control universe then again that person is absoulutly right.....icon_smile.gif

have a nice day

Brother Ismaili103, once again thanks for your input on this topic....You completely shook me when you said

" Krishna can be shah/pir at the same time "

If we are to believe Shri Krishna was both shah/pir, I think it sorts all the differences that me and babaji have

For as I said in the past god used to speak through prophet[as]....and at the same time Shri Krishna was an imam who guided those who believed in him.

But Ismaili103, many hindus believe that Shri Krishna did not die and was raised up by the divine [pretty much like jesus[as]]...What do you think ??

[shiraz.virani]

Nobody should agree with me but whatever I wrote above is taken from ginans and waez.

I shall go through those ginans in a few, If I have any questions I'll not hesitant to bother you

Many peoples do not agree with Ismaili sect, its tradition, ritual and customs, they think Ismailis are Kafirs and they are not true Muslims.
I agree that there are many misunderstanding going on amongst other Muslims that Ismailis do not believe in Quran, Ismailis do not believe in keeping Roza, Ismailis do not go for Hajj e.t.c but in my thinking non of Ismaili imam has prohibited them not to go for hajj, or not to keep roza or do not believe in Quran!.

You are right brother, but this misunderstanding occurs because of some misunderstanding between ourselves...Like I have a different view and so does nuseri..We both got aggressive and insulted soooo many sects with that [which is not right].

There should be a way through which we should make our momin bhai understand...and that way was shown by you and ismaili103....And I thank you both for that.

Infact I also thank babaji for going mental on me because if he didn't then I wouldn't have got a convincing answer [the one from ismaili103]

About Memoirs:-
BTW Whatever SMS wrote in his memoirs has been written keeping in mind the general public not Ismailis only, therefore what he wrote in Memoirs are totally different then what you can find in Kaame Imam e Mubin'
In this farman books you can find "Batini/Ruhani/Haqiqi and many topics for a example Imamat, Zahoorat e.t.c.

Agakhani bhai, this Kalame Imam e Mubin is banned in all the jamatkhana's here...They said that MHI recalled this firman book and its no longer in publication...How can I get hold of this book ??

[shiraz.virani]

Nuseri said :

DILO JAAN SE KARO AASHIQUE AUR KHIDMAT ALI KI MOMINO

FIKR RAHENGE USEE HAMARI, HUM SE JYAADA HUR PAL MOMINO.

Isi baat par arz hai :

Yaa Ali tera haseen naam bhala lagta hai
tere naam se yeh islam bhala lagta hai
log kehte hain tere ishq me kafir mujhko
aur mujhko yeah ilzaam bhala lagta hai

Belated Imamat Day mubarak to each and every one on this forum

[ismaili103]

to shiraz virani:-

I dont know much about hindu believes but according to me KRISHNA is Imam-e-zaman and according to one firman of Imam Sultan Mohammed Shah..imam said " Imam never died"(imam kabhi martaa nahi)

so krishna never died and not even raised up because IMAM SMS said"
"without imam earth is vanished in a second" so there should always an imam in each era...i m not say that only DASAVATR gives us loin of imamat but imam is present in earth in material body frm thy begining as IMAM AGA ALI SHAH MAA BAAP said " I am wid u frm the origin"

shiraz bhai i have the web link of kalam-e-imam-e-mubeen but in urdu langauage are u familiar wid Urdu...?????

[shiraz.virani]

Ismaili103 said :

shiraz bhai i have the web link of kalam-e-imam-e-mubeen but in urdu langauage are u familiar wid Urdu...?????

Bhai yes I can, can you please provide me with the link ??