Hazrat Ibrahim - Melkisedek

[ismaili103]

hazrat ibrahim is thy son of malik us salam(IMAM of thy time) i cant understand this part.....


ejee hee(n)du ke ghar bettaa aayaa, huvaa musalmaan
pahelaa naam ibhraaheem bhannaayaa
deen huvaa rahemaan.........................illaahee.........7

A son was born in the house of a Hindu(idol worshipper). He became a Muslim. He was
known at first by the name of Ibhrahim(Prophet Abhraham) and mercy descended upon the days.

[a_27826]

hazrat ibrahim is thy son of malik us salam(IMAM of thy time) i cant understand this part.....


ejee hee(n)du ke ghar bettaa aayaa, huvaa musalmaan
pahelaa naam ibhraaheem bhannaayaa
deen huvaa rahemaan.........................illaahee.........7

A son was born in the house of a Hindu(idol worshipper). He became a Muslim. He was
known at first by the name of Ibhrahim(Prophet Abhraham) and mercy descended upon the days.

Interesting information,

from where you got this information about "malikul-salaam (Melchizedek) was the father of Ibrahim ?

According to the Bible

Genesis 11:26 After Terah had lived 70 years; he became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran.

And according to the Quran

006:074 And when Abraham said to his father Azar, 'you take idols for gods? I see you, and your people, in manifest error.'

019:042 When he said to his father, 'Father, why do you worship that which neither hears nor sees, nor avails you anything?

019:043 Father, there has come to me knowledge such as came not to you; so follow me, and I will guide you on a level path.

019:044 Father, serve not Satan; surely Satan is a rebel against the All-merciful.

019:045 Father, I fear that some chastisement from the All-merciful will smite you, so that you become a friend to Satan.

021:052 when he said to his father and his people, 'What are these statues unto which you are cleaving?'

037:085 when he said to his father and his folk, 'What do you serve?

043:026 And when Abraham said to his father and his people, 'Surely I am quit of that you serve‘



or is it because Ibrahim gave "dasond" to Melchizedek ?

Genesis 14:20 And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand. Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

[ismaili103]

i get this info frm 77 patras genealogy of shri vishnu

Shri Budha (Imam Honayd) (9th Avatar) – Marks the commencement of Kalyjug
50. shish (probably the biblical Seth),
51. sham (probably the biblical Shem)
52. malikulsalaam (probably the biblical Melchizedek)
53. malkaan,
54. eslaam (probably the biblical Ishmael),
55. haroon (probably the biblical Aaron),
56. shamunnsaffa (probably the biblical Simon Peter),
57. adnaan,
58. maa' d,
59. nizar,
60. mudar,
61. eliaas,
62. mudrak,
63. khuzema,
64. kinana,
65. nazar,
66. maalek,
67. gaaleb,
68. luve,
69. ka'ab,
70. mure,
71. kilaab,
72. kuse,
73. abdul munaaf,
74. abu hashim,
75. abdul mutalib,
76. abu talib,
Shri Naklanki – Ali ibn Abu Talib (10th Avatar)


i is just my interpretation that imamat transfer frm malik us salam to ismail(son of abram)

abram paly thy role of (pir,prophet)

and thats rite abram gave dasond to malik us salam becuz he is thy imam of thy time and we nly gave dasond to imam..

abram gave 10th of everything to malik us salam.yes becuz from 12.5 we gave 10th to imam and 2.5 to pir.....

[a_27826]

i is just my interpretation that imamat transfer frm malik us salam to ismail(son of abram)

abram paly thy role of (pir,prophet)

and thats rite abram gave dasond to malik us salam becuz he is thy imam of thy time and we nly gave dasond to imam..

abram gave 10th of everything to malik us salam.yes becuz from 12.5 we gave 10th to imam and 2.5 to pir.....

I can see your point.

According the geology

Imamate was from

52. malikulsalaam (probably the biblical Melchizedek) to
53. malkaan, to
54. eslaam (probably the biblical Ishmael)

So your question is how can a person between this lineage who was not an Imam can be an idol worshipper? (Correct me if I am wrong)

And in this case is the father of Ibrahim, who was an idol worshipper according to the Quran and the Ginan.

I’ll try to answer according my limited knowledge.

Lot’s father was a disbeliever who refused to migrate from the community of idolaters.

Noah produced a disbeliever.

1. Imam is masum but his family members are not except his successor.

2. Imam’s family members, who are not masum, can be believers or disbelievers.

However many Shias believe that no prophet is born out of the loin of a unbeliever, that is, all prophets from Adam were born out of believing biological fathers and they explain that Azar in 006:074, was not biological father of Ibrahim but rather a guardian who raised him and as such Ibrahim used call him “father”.

But i am not convinced with the "guardian" and "father" explanation.

[shiraz.virani]

hazrat ibrahim is thy son of malik us salam(IMAM of thy time) i cant understand this part.....


ejee hee(n)du ke ghar bettaa aayaa, huvaa musalmaan
pahelaa naam ibhraaheem bhannaayaa
deen huvaa rahemaan.........................illaahee.........7

A son was born in the house of a Hindu(idol worshipper). He became a Muslim. He was
known at first by the name of Ibhrahim(Prophet Abhraham) and mercy descended upon the days.

Brother please remember that H.Ibrahim[as] grew up in the land that was full of idol worshippers. His father himself used to carve idols and worship them. In that context may be our pir's used the term "in the house of idol worshipper = His father/Guardian"

[ismaili103]

ok i m agreed but one point i want to share is that IMAMS and PIRS or PROPHETS are from thy same lineage so how there is any idol worshipper frm this pure lineage...

[a_27826]

ok i m agreed but one point i want to share is that IMAMS and PIRS or PROPHETS are from thy same lineage so how there is any idol worshipper frm this pure lineage...

Yes, a good question…… how can a prophet be born out of the loin of an unbeliever?

As I said earlier, it’s against Shia belief; most Twelver Shia scholars bring out the theory that Azar in 006:074, was not biological father of Ibrahim but rather a guardian who raised him and as such Ibrahim used call him “father”.

If you want to justify your belief that “a prophet cannot be born out of the loin of an unbeliever”, then you can always come with your interpretation of 006:074 and the Ginan quoted by you suit your beliefs.

But i believe, that’s not the correct way to handle situation like this.

The correct way is to learn more, gain more knowledge, keep on reading the Quran and the Ginans, follow the farmans of Hazar Imam, and latter you will have more understand the verses in question.

And I think, that is what you did by putting this question here in this forum.

By the way what do you think of “A son was born in the house of a Hindu. He became a Muslim” in the Ginan you quoted?

Does it mean Ibrahim was initially an idol worshiper, and then became a Muslim?

[ismaili103]

[/quote]By the way what do you think of “A son was born in the house of a Hindu. He became a Muslim” in the Ginan you quoted?

Does it mean Ibrahim was initially an idol worshiper, and then became a Muslim?[/quote]

in my opinion idol worshipers are those who saw IMAM as a physical being and call body a IMAM like "ishnasharis"

after read ur comments i think "son born in thy house of hindu means" means ibrahim born in thy city where peoples has the great influence in materialism.

[star_munir]

There is a very common anecdote that Hazrat Ibrahim when saw sun imagined it to be God, but when sun set down he realized sun can't be God as God exist all the time...then he thought of moon and later realized moon can also not be God...finally he had realization that Sun, Moon, Stars etc are creation and their Creator is God, who is beyond every thing else. This is a very common anecdote, which I hope many of you would have listened to.

[a_27826]

There is a very common anecdote that Hazrat Ibrahim when saw sun imagined it to be God, but when sun set down he realized sun can't be God as God exist all the time...then he thought of moon and later realized moon can also not be God...finally he had realization that Sun, Moon, Stars etc are creation and their Creator is God, who is beyond every thing else. This is a very common anecdote, which I hope many of you would have listened to.

It’s an Interesting tale.

I wonder who the author is.

Is it the same author who composed the tale of Prince Siddhartha Gautama about growing up in palace walls and having no contact with the outside world and engaged in the pastimes of princes?

And when Buddha was an adult, married with children, persuaded his father to let him go out of the palace walls and was surprised to see that there were people who do get old, sick, die and so forth.

And after that he realized that all men who are born eventually have to die, sickness comes to all men, and old age comes to all men.

Siddhartha left his wife and son at the palace and set out to learn the way of finding salvation and understanding.

[shiraz.virani]

It’s an Interesting tale.

I wonder who the author is.

The story about the sun and the moon is mentioned in so called "USMAN'S BOOK"

6:74-81 Lo! Abraham said to his father Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? for I see thee and thy people in manifest error." So also did We show Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the earth that he might have certitude. When the night covered him over, he saw a star: he said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, he said: "I love not those that set." When he saw the moon rising in splendour, He said: "This is my Lord." but when the moon set he said: "Unless my Lord guide me I shall surely be among those who go astray." When he saw the sun rising in (splendour) he said: "This is my Lord; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the sun set he said: "O my people! I am free from your (guilt) of giving partners to Allah. "For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, toward Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah." His people disputed with him. He said: "(come) ye to dispute with me, about Allah when He (Himself) hath guided me? I fear not (the beings) ye associate with Allah: unless my Lord willeth, (nothing can happen). My Lord comprehendeth in His knowledge all things: will ye not (yourselves) be admonished? "How should I fear (the beings) ye associate with Allah, when ye fear not to give partners to Allah without any warrant having been given to you? Which of (us) two parties hath more right to security? (Tell me) if ye know.

[shiraz.virani]

6:83 That was the reasoning about Us, which We gave to Abraham (to use) against his people: We raise whom We will, degree after degree: for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge.

[shiraz.virani]

Shri Budha (Imam Honayd) (9th Avatar) – Marks the commencement of Kalyjug

I just wanna clarify one thing here...Shri Budha is not Imam Honayd but instead H.Adam[as]

Now I dunno whether H.Adam[as] = Imam Honayd but as far as "noorenallahnoor" is concerned H.Adam[as] was indeed the 9th avatar

http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/files/N ... 76-424.pdf

page 399

The following chart was presented as evidence in Haji Bibi case

[a_27826]

It’s an Interesting tale.

I wonder who the author is.

The story about the sun and the moon is mentioned in so called "USMAN'S BOOK"

6:74-81 Lo! Abraham said to his father Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? for I see thee and thy people in manifest error." So also did We show Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the earth that he might have certitude. When the night covered him over, he saw a star: he said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, he said: "I love not those that set." When he saw the moon rising in splendour, He said: "This is my Lord." but when the moon set he said: "Unless my Lord guide me I shall surely be among those who go astray." When he saw the sun rising in (splendour) he said: "This is my Lord; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the sun set he said: "O my people! I am free from your (guilt) of giving partners to Allah. "For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, toward Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah." His people disputed with him. He said: "(come) ye to dispute with me, about Allah when He (Himself) hath guided me? I fear not (the beings) ye associate with Allah: unless my Lord willeth, (nothing can happen). My Lord comprehendeth in His knowledge all things: will ye not (yourselves) be admonished? "How should I fear (the beings) ye associate with Allah, when ye fear not to give partners to Allah without any warrant having been given to you? Which of (us) two parties hath more right to security? (Tell me) if ye know.

thank you

[ismaili103]

thy name mentioned in thy chart shri buddh (adam) is thy interpretation that seth is son of adam so before seth IMAM was adam but perfect source is not mentioned any where even not in ginan. in ginan pir used thy name shri buddh not adam or honayd so it is an mystry.....

[zznoor]

Shiraz virani wrote

The story about the sun and the moon is mentioned in so called "USMAN'S BOOK"

I hope this was written in Jest!
I visit many web sites. 'Usman's book' is mentioned frequently on this site only. Others call it Quran with respect.

[a_27826]

Shiraz virani wrote

The story about the sun and the moon is mentioned in so called "USMAN'S BOOK"

I hope this was written in Jest!
I visit many web sites. 'Usman's book' is mentioned frequently on this site only. Others call it Quran with respect.

I believe Shiraz wrote in jest because I mocked the story of Ibrahim in the Quran posted by “star_munir”, .......

It is I, who sometime refer to the Book we have as “usmani mushaf” and quite understandably, Shiraz doesn’t like it.

[zznoor]

a_27826 wrote

It is I, who sometime refer to the Book we have as “usmani mushaf” and quite understandably, Shiraz doesn’t like it.

Why do you refer to Quran as 'Usmani 'when Hz Usman only ordered to prepare a mushaf in qureshi dialect?
This Mushaf was prepared from a Mushaf in the care of Prophet' widow.
It was prepared by committee of hafiz.
Hz Usman ordered to make few copies and sent to various Islamic centers.
Of course he ordered to destroy all other copies.
So far enemies of Islam has failed to produce missing passages.
All the 'Bolta Qurans' have not penned one single additional Aya.
So why few Ismaili Muslims are creating this mischief on this site?

[a_27826]

a_27826 wrote

It is I, who sometime refer to the Book we have as “usmani mushaf” and quite understandably, Shiraz doesn’t like it.

Why do you refer to Quran as 'Usmani 'when Hz Usman only ordered to prepare a mushaf in qureshi dialect?
This Mushaf was prepared from a Mushaf in the care of Prophet' widow.
It was prepared by committee of hafiz.
Hz Usman ordered to make few copies and sent to various Islamic centers.
Of course he ordered to destroy all other copies.
So far enemies of Islam has failed to produce missing passages.
All the 'Bolta Qurans' have not penned one single additional Aya.
So why few Ismaili Muslims are creating this mischief on this site?

You are right; I should refer the “Uthmani Mushaf” as Quran with respect.
By the way, weren’t the manuscripts of the Quran in care of Prophet's widow given to her by Caliph Abu Bakar?

[Admin]

Actualy during the compilation, they left all the manscripts one night in Bibi Aisha's room. In the morning they found that a goat had eaten most of the material. They restarted again to compile.

Some people do not like to read on Islamic history. I think they should.

[zznoor]

Actualy during the compilation, they left all the manscripts one night in Bibi Aisha's room. In the morning they found that a goat had eaten most of the material. They restarted again to compile.

Some people do not like to read on Islamic history. I think they should.

a_27826 wrote

You are right; I should refer the “Uthmani Mushaf” as Quran with respect.
By the way, weren’t the manuscripts of the Quran in care of Prophet's widow given to her by Caliph Abu Bakar?

Response at

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... &start=150

[Admin]

I don't see any point by you pointing to your own reply copy pasted from wherever...