"Ali Sahi Allah" from Asal Dua, Nusayri

[shiraz.virani]

A human being is simple to know,but to know him as GOD is difficult.

Right !!!...Because human being is god's creation and not god himself. However If allah[swt] wants he can manifest in any form he wishes too.

The word Allah is simple but difficult to understand.

Yes and you just proved my point

Our Kalima is easy to recite but very difficult to understand

Whats so difficult about our kalima ??

Imam Jafar Sadik[as] said, "The kalma'i tawhid refers to the words of the believers, confessing that there is no god but Allah. Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah and Ali is the Wali from Allah" (Tafsir al-Safi, 2:293, Tafsir Mirat al-Anwar, p. 196, Tafsir al-Burhan, 3:877).\

The Ismailis lived in the milieu of the Twelvers in Iran during Alamut and post-Alamut periods, the mode of kalma was slightly altered in order to distinguish them from the Twelvers, which firstly sounded most probably in the old dua recited in India. The Ismaili thus recite the kalma, la ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammad-an rasulullah, Aliyyun Amirul Mominin Aliyyullah (There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, Ali the Commander of the believers is from God).

source : http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/10521

Please go through the underlined words again = IS from god

Imam Ali [as] is from allah[swt] and not allah[swt] himself.

Our Baatin interpretation and conviction will most definitely look amusing and annoying to Shariatis.(Their hallmark is Beard,Burqa and a blast somewhere and nothing more like the word LAA in Arabic and everything is black about them).

Not at all...what is annoying is how we take a simple IS FROM GOD and change it to IS GOD , there's a huge difference.

[a_27826]

la ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammad-an rasulullah, Aliyyun Amirul Mominin Aliyyullah (There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, Ali the Commander of the believers is from God).

1. There is no god but Allah - not every one is god, hence testifying only Allah is god makes sense.

2. Muhammad is the messenger of Allah - not everyone is messenger of Allah, therefore declaring this makes sense.

3. Ali is from Allah - true but isn't everyone from Allah ? (002:156)

the translation of Aliyyullah = "Ali is from God" doesn't make sense in the Kalma.

Maybe the translation is not correct.

can anybody who knows arabic, translate "Aliyyullah" ?

[Admin]

The translation of Nabiyullah is The Prophet of God.

Alyullah, the Ali of God.

Ali mean the Highest.

I suggest you read the various Ismaili works that explain the difference and the unity of God the Attributs and God the Esence.

Once you understand that concept, you wil be able to fully grasp how Ali Allah, Ali Sahi Allah and Aliyullah all means the same thing.

[a_27826]

The translation of Nabiyullah is The Prophet of God.

Alyullah, the Ali of God.

Ali mean the Highest.

I suggest you read the various Ismaili works that explain the difference and the unity of Gos the Attributs and God the Esence.

Once you understand that concept, you wil be able to fully grasp how Ali Allah, Ali Sahi Allah and Aliyullah all means the same thing.

thanx admin....

The third testimony now makes sense if ALI = high.

Therefore there are two "Ali"s in the third testimony.

One as a name of Ali ibn Abi Talib, and
the other as a word meaning high.

Aliyyun Amirul Mominin Aliyyullah.
Ali the Commander of the believers is Exalted of God.

[shiraz.virani]

a_27826, you're right...the actual meaning is what you gave us i.e "EXALTED of God "

Or as Khalil Andani once said and I quote :

QUOTE :

Ali, the Commander of the Faithful, is the Exalted of God.
Ali is the Commander of the Faithful, the Exalted of God.
Ali, the Exalted of God, is the Commander of the Faithful.

Aliyyu’llah, giriyazaari ji tasbihji venti toje huzoorme(n) kabul kar

(Translation: O Exalted of God, please accept our pleas of giriyazaari in your luminous presence)

UNQUOTE


But whichever way you take it, It still doesn't make him allah[swt]

QUOTE

In Isma’ili terminology, this great Rank (hadd) is called the Universal Intellect (‘aql al-kull) which various sayings of the Prophet and Imams describe as the first Light (nur) to be originated by God among the spiritual beings. Therefore, the words ‘Aliyyu’llah refer to the Universal Intellect as the Highest Rank (hadd) amongst all of the hudud al-Din (Ranks of Faith).

Nasir Khusraw writes :

“He has described His Ranks (hudud) as being al-‘Aliyy (the High). By (the attribute ‘Aliyy) He means the Universal Intellect (‘Aql-i Kull) who is higher than all Ranks (hudud) and whose attribute is higher than all attributes. In the salat he is [the meaning of] the tasbih of the prostration, which is recited as Subhana Rabbiya’l-A‘la wa-bi-Hamdih (glorified is my Lord, the High, and by His praise) because he is higher than all Ranks (hudud).”

(Sayyedna Nasir-i Khusraw, Wajh-i Din, Discourse 51)

In conclusion, when we recite the words Aliyyun Amiru'l-Mumineen ‘Aliyyu’llah in our Du’a and Tasbihs, we affirm that the Imam of the Time, is outwardly and physically the Commander of the Faithful while inwardly and metaphysically is the ‘Aliyyu’llah (Exalted of God) which is the Universal Intellect or the Nur of Imamat.

The “Exalted of God (‘Aliyyu’llah)” must refer to the Rank or Level (hadd) in the World of Faith (‘alam al-din) which is the highest and most exalted of all the Ranks (hudud) in the spiritual and terrestrial hierarchies. God Himself does not possess a Rank (hadd) because He transcends all the ranks of existence.... But there is one being which occupies the highest Rank/Level (hadd) in the chain of Being and serves as the highest epiphany of the ineffable and transcendent God and that is Imam E Zaman


UNQUOTE

But I guess some ismaili brothers and sisters simply choose to ignore this...Just because they're bestowed with the gift of Imamat = Universal Intellect, they automatically assume Imam's[as] to be allah [swt]. What we forget is that this rank is bestowed upon them by the one who doesn't need nor possess any rank for he is above all that we associate with him.

[Admin]

I attended a lecture by professor Corbin at the Sorbonne University [Paris] in Mai 1978 before he passed away later that year...

He was talking of ismailism and its belief in the Imam. Corbin dedicated 50 years of his life after his Ph.D. to Ismailism.

He said a sentense that wil always resonate in my heart: he said an ismaili will never say Ali is Allah, indeed to say Ali is Allah is to degrade Ali. Ali is not Allah, he continued, then with a very strong voice, he said "No! Ali is not Allah, Ali is much higher!"

There were about 20 students in the class. Most should be still alive....

So Imamat and Noor an Allah Noor can be understood at various level, from basic which most people would say (he is a good man) to Ali Sahi Allah.... with in between all of the colours of the rainbow.

[nuseri]

To Admin:Excellent piece of Info.
I had stated earlier , the grading of Faith on Shariat to Marifat level
The word Allah comes below Shariat That the word of
Allah and Mohammed.(S.A) is Shariat. and the word ALI come on the top at the Marfiat level (tohwid with God).
Corbin was absolutely right that you are degrading ALI by linking him with the word Allah on standalone basis.
But the two relative word of ALI Allah is Haqiqat level,I may not fully agree with Corbin may be on Haqiqat concept,because Marifat comes only after rock solid Haqiqati Imaan of a MOMIN.
ALI is much much much higher than Allah.
The word and name Allah is all knowing,unseen entity,is a matter of fact In Koran it clearly show it as a male voice addressing the humanity.
While the word ALI is all knowing SEEN and and a living Entity.
In today's world,an educated and rational person of any religion does NOT wish or desire to pray to an unknown entity and practice some thing of ages past and of medieval times.
More and more persons are leaving their religion because of THIS,They
are not fully wrong.
Level of grading of faith can be from D to A.
Allah n Rasool is Shariat (D)
Allah, Rasool n ALI is Tariqat (C).
ALi Allah is Haqiqat (B)
ALI is Marifat (A).
If you observe in this forum or elsewhere,most of noise,rubbish,abuses come at D level at Shariat,about facing the Kaaba,Saalat. Fasting ,attributes and what not practices of medieval ages.
This is where the D grade expert quacks( Non Ismailis ) jump in on the forum with most FUTILE CONCLUSION.
Shairatis are like candle night needed ONLY in blackness of Beard,Burqa n darkness of blast somewhere and NOT where we have our Beloved Hazar Imam(ALI) as SUN light guiding us.

I will end with:
AHMED ALI ALI BOLIYA.
PECHE HONI HOI SO HOI REE,PECHE HONI HOI SO HOI REE.

[nuseri]

Sorry I could not edit the above.
It is in the line :in today's world "it does NOT want to pray".
please add the word NOT to get real understanding

[shiraz.virani]

The word and name Allah is all knowing,unseen entity,is a matter of fact In Koran it clearly show it as a male voice addressing the humanity.

So because of that you come to a conclusion that Imam Ali[as] is allah[swt] ??

While the word ALI is all knowing SEEN and and a living Entity.

Yes because he is a human being !!!

In today's world,an educated and rational person of any religion does NOT wish or desire to pray to an unknown entity and practice some thing of ages past and of medieval times.

But majority of muslims still do...which includes Hazar Imam !!!

More and more persons are leaving their religion because of THIS,They are not fully wrong.

You do know that islam is one of the fastest growing religion in the world right ???

If you observe in this forum or elsewhere,most of noise,rubbish,abuses come at D level at Shariat,about facing the Kaaba,Saalat. Fasting ,attributes and what not practices of medieval ages.

So you're saying Hazar Imam is a shariati just because he fasts during the month of ramadan or his grand father who used to pray facing the holy kaaba during his stay at hotel ritz in London.

[Admin]

One should not mix up the body and the Noor, these are 2 distinct concepts.

Shariati look at the body and are not able to see, comprehend or imagine the Noor which is beyond the body.

As for Hazar Imam fasting, these are stories... but even if he did, that is none of our business. The Noor never fast, only the body can fast or not fast.

The concept of Noor in Ismailism is unique, there is no way people from Shariati background can even think about it. The Imam said Shariat and Hakiqat will never meet. There is no common ground.

Our Islam is not the Islam that keeps us chained to the past. Our Islam is the Islam given by Allah to Mankind. It is the Islam that allows us to live with our time, ahead of our time. That is the unending Islam of the future.

Ismailis are those who are Hakiqati. Some are born from Ismaili parents and consider themself Ismailis but unless they are Hakiqati, they can call themselves by whatever name, they would not have fulfilled the condition to become Ismailis.

Some are not born from Ismaili parents but they are Hakiqati, they are Ismailis even if they do not know yet that they are Ismailis.

If you talk of God in Hakiqati term (gnostic term) then know that God is beyond Attributes. Attributes are inventions of the human brain, these can not limit the greatness of God. If Allah is the one beyond attributes given by humans, He truly is our Allah, our God. If you degrade Allah or whatever you want to call him at the level of Attributes, then you are not referring to God.

There is a paragraph on Allah in Ismailism in the Encyclopedia of Islam.

Yes, the authors of the Encyclopedia found it important to explain what was differentiating the Allah in Ismailism from the general beliefs of the ignorant masses.

[nuseri]

To Khoja Isnashari blogger:

Your previous postings reflects upon your agenda to be on this site.

1.Islam is growing not because people are attracted to it but because of abnormal growth rate of birth.This is because of ignorance in majority as they believe that quantity is better then quality.For this it has become a laughing stock and disaster for other communities.

2.Even at Shairat (common sense level).ALI is respected
as fourth Khalifa of Islam,son in law of Prophet and as Sher e Khuda.
below that comes the level of ignorance where many good and wicked people see Imam as a normal human being,as you do.
3.Even Hazrat ALI and Imam Jafar Sadiq prayed many times a day and kept fast openly.
to many they looked like ordinary human being.
Many wicked people started mocking them and formed their opinion at
ignorance level.
We Ismailis start from Tariqat level blessed souls and looking forward to
to Hear more of Baatin and of Haqiqat level and Marifat level perception of ALI and may be not below Shariat n Ignorance level.

YOU are regularly posting and portraying mocking the level you see of Imam (ALI ) as a normal human being
I am posting and advocating the Level I see and Feel (supernatural at times) of ALI.

TO ADMIN:
I presume this website is there to know more about ALI at Haqiqat and Marifat Level openly a level that is beyond Tariqat.
Your regularly state that Shariat and Haqiqat can never meet.You are right.
so why in the first place there are posting of below Shariat levels from people with wicked interest.
We are much beyond Shariat (Candle light ).
You shoulder heavy responsibility of How ALI is portrayed on the site.
All candlelight with stinking wax posting should be nipped at the BUD
i.e At the submission level.so that they rightly go to the level of their web sites
Of BBB and Fatwas( explained earlier).

[a_27826]

If you degrade Allah or whatever you want to call him at the level of Attributes, then you are not referring to God.

Somewhat similar concept is in Taoism,

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao;
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

Admin, a question to you to gain knowledge.

The Quran says:
059:023 He is God; there is no god but He. He is the King, the All-holy, the All-peaceable, the All-faithful, the All-preserver, the All-mighty, the All-compeller, the All-sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate!

Are you trying to say when Allah calls Himself the King, the All-holy, the All-peaceable etc in the Quran, is not the only god and there is another god above Him who is without attributes ?

[ismna0a]

'Call it “Ali Sahi Allah” or “Aliyyuallah” it means the same, call it “Ali from Allah” or “Ali is Allah” it means the same' ----

They do not mean the same thing - saying that Ali is Allah is totally different from saying Ali comes from Allah.

Just one question, if 'Ali is Allah' is wrong, why was it put in the dua in the first place? Surely Mawlana Sultan Mohammed Shah had enough knowledge to judge what we should and shouldn't be reciting? I've heard that is was taken out of the dua because people didn't agree with it and then it was changed to 'Ali is from Allah' .. but if it was put in the dua by the Imam, why was it debated against? The Imam knows what we should and shouldn't be praying so surely if it was originally put in the dua there must be some significance behind it?

[a_27826]

Admin, a question to you to gain knowledge.

correction: Admin, a question to you from me to gain knowledge from you.

[shiraz.virani]

To Khoja Isnashari blogger:

Your previous postings reflects upon your agenda to be on this site.

Khoja Ishna shari ??? ....Now where did this come from ?? Just because I dont agree to what you have to say means that Im an ishna shari ??

1.Islam is growing not because people are attracted to it but because of abnormal growth rate of birth.This is because of ignorance in majority as they believe that quantity is better then quality.For this it has become a laughing stock and disaster for other communities.

I wasn't talking about growth rate here my friend. I was talking about the number of conversions each year...Please google it and do some research

2.Even at Shairat (common sense level).ALI is respected
as fourth Khalifa of Islam,son in law of Prophet and as Sher e Khuda.
below that comes the level of ignorance where many good and wicked people see Imam as a normal human being,as you do.

And when did I say they disrespect our Imam ??? And what does this have to do with your theory of ALI ALLAH ???

Just because I think MHI is not Allah[swt] but instead vicar of allah[swt] it makes me wicked ??

3.Even Hazrat ALI and Imam Jafar Sadiq prayed many times a day and kept fast openly.
to many they looked like ordinary human being.
Many wicked people started mocking them and formed their opinion at
ignorance level.

I personally don't know why or who would mock our imam's if they were praying many times a day. Infact its a good thing to pray is it not ??

Imam Ali[as] was wounded while praying in the great mosque of kufa

People used to come to Imam Jafer As Sadiq[as] in order to learn...There are several sources that proves that so I dunno why someone would mock them.

We Ismailis start from Tariqat level blessed souls and looking forward to
to Hear more of Baatin and of Haqiqat level and Marifat level perception of ALI and may be not below Shariat n Ignorance level.

So shariat level as per you = Ignorance, then why do you bow, raise your hands and do all the physical [shariati] exercises in our dua buddy ??

And if you say you're doing it while reciting dua then you my friend are an ignorant person yourself !!! [well because as per you shariat or shariatis = Ignorance or Ignorant]

YOU are regularly posting and portraying mocking the level you see of Imam (ALI ) as a normal human being
I am posting and advocating the Level I see and Feel (supernatural at times) of ALI.

What !!!....Calling human a human is mocking ???.... Calling him exalted of allah[swt] is mocking ?? ...Calling him vicar of allah[swt] is mocking ??

[shiraz.virani]

One should not mix up the body and the Noor, these are 2 distinct concepts.

Agreed !!!

Shariati look at the body and are not able to see, comprehend or imagine the Noor which is beyond the body.

Noor of Imamat bestowed on Imam's[as] by allah[swt]...Is that what you meant to say ??

As for Hazar Imam fasting, these are stories... but even if he did, that is none of our business. The Noor never fast, only the body can fast or not fast.

Ofcourse it doesn't !!!....Does your soul fast when your body is fasting ??

The concept of Noor in Ismailism is unique, there is no way people from Shariati background can even think about it. The Imam said Shariat and Hakiqat will never meet. There is no common ground.

I'm sorry but lemme rephrase it " The concept of Noor in some ISMAILI'S is unique and yes there is noway a regular Ismaili Muslim like me can understand.

Our Islam is not the Islam that keeps us chained to the past. Our Islam is the Islam given by Allah to Mankind. It is the Islam that allows us to live with our time, ahead of our time. That is the unending Islam of the future.

Islam is the religion of past/present and future my friend and I agree with you.

Ismailis are those who are Hakiqati. Some are born from Ismaili parents and consider themself Ismailis but unless they are Hakiqati, they can call themselves by whatever name, they would not have fulfilled the condition to become Ismailis.

Right !!!....Haqeeqat is the process of realization...And I Realize and accept that we have the universal intellect to guide us...An Imam[as] who is exalted of allah[swt]...the highest rank ever known to humankind which is given by allah[swt] to imam's[as]

There is a paragraph on Allah in Ismailism in the Encyclopedia of Islam. Yes, the authors of the Encyclopedia found it important to explain what was differentiating the Allah in Ismailism from the general beliefs of the ignorant masses.

You just said @ above and I quote

Some are not born from Ismaili parents but they are Hakiqati, they are Ismailis even if they do not know yet that they are Ismailis.

So why generalize all muslims as Ignorant ??

[zznoor]

One should not mix up the body and the Noor, these are 2 distinct concepts.

Agreed !!!

Allah's noor is in every living thing

Shariati look at the body and are not able to see, comprehend or imagine the Noor which is beyond the body.

shariati has no concept that Allah's noor reside ionly in one Muslim person
Noor of Imamat bestowed on Imam's[as] by allah[swt]...Is that what you meant to say ??

serch Quran and Ahadith and quote passages saying that Allah bestowed his noor in person of Imam Ali Ibn Talib RA

As for Hazar Imam fasting, these are stories... but even if he did, that is none of our business. The Noor never fast, only the body can fast or not fast.

Ofcourse it doesn't !!!....Does your soul fast when your body is fasting ??

muslims of prophet's time were interested in every aspect of how he practiced new religion

The concept of Noor in Ismailism is unique, there is no way people from Shariati background can even think about it. The Imam said Shariat and Hakiqat will never meet. There is no common ground.

brother, being humble should be trait of every Muslim. Ghamand of being superior Muslim is not good for you

I'm sorry but lemme rephrase it " The concept of Noor in some ISMAILI'S is unique and yes there is noway a regular Ismaili Muslim like me can understand.

May be you should take extra lessons in Ismailism

Our Islam is not the Islam that keeps us chained to the past. Our Islam is the Islam given by Allah to Mankind. It is the Islam that allows us to live with our time, ahead of our time. That is the unending Islam of the future.

Islam is the religion of past/present and future my friend and I agree with you.

neither it has chained shariati Muslim. I practice Islam as required by Quran and Sunnah, own a consulting business have been successful in Duniya and hopefully spiritually also. Allaho Alam

Ismailis are those who are Hakiqati. Some are born from Ismaili parents and consider themself Ismailis but unless they are Hakiqati, they can call themselves by whatever name, they would not have fulfilled the condition to become Ismailis.

Right !!!....Haqeeqat is the process of realization...And I Realize and accept that we have the universal intellect to guide us...An Imam[as] who is exalted of allah[swt]...the highest rank ever known to humankind which is given by allah[swt] to imam's[as]

Shariati, haqeetati, marafati are Human innovations. Only Allah know which is better, i am satisfied being Shariati.

There is a paragraph on Allah in Ismailism in the Encyclopedia of Islam. Yes, the authors of the Encyclopedia found it important to explain what was differentiating the Allah in Ismailism from the general beliefs of the ignorant masses.

You just said @ above and I quote

i like to read it. Reference please. If you count non ignorant shariati muslims they will out number Ghamandi Ismailis by thousands

Some are not born from Ismaili parents but they are Hakiqati, they are Ismailis even if they do not know yet that they are Ismailis.

So why generalize all muslims as Ignorant ??[/quote]

to pile up on Muslims has become fashionable. Brother has not learned to be modest.he should pay more attention to his MHI, MHI's modesty and his willingness to meet other muslims halfway. I have not heard him say all Muslims are ignorant

[zznoor]

As for Hazar Imam fasting, these are stories... but even if he did, that is none of our business. The Noor never fast, only the body can fast or not fast.

Ofcourse it doesn't !!!....Does your soul fast when your body is fasting ??

muslims of prophet's time were interested in every aspect of how he practiced new religion, according to Quranic command all Muslims are required to fast in Ramadan. Some fast only in body and many fast in body and spirit, only Allah knows.
Muslims follow Prophet, it is strange why Ismaili do not consider MHI's life as exemplary

[Admin]

The Imam does not have to follow our limitations. The Imam does not need to be seen as role-model by ismailis. We do not need to see his life as examplary. He is not bound by our wishes and our narrow understanding of His Creation.

The Imam does not have to follow "the Straight Path", He is well ahead, so much that the Straight Path follows the Imam.

[a_27826]

Shariati look at the body and are not able to see, comprehend or imagine the Noor which is beyond the body.

shariati has no concept that Allah's noor reside ionly in one Muslim person
Noor of Imamat bestowed on Imam's[as] by allah[swt]...Is that what you meant to say ??

serch Quran and Ahadith and quote passages saying that Allah bestowed his noor in person of Imam Ali Ibn Talib RA

how about this quote from the Quran ?


005:015 There has come to you from Allah a Nur, and a Kitab Manifest

[nuseri]

to Khoja isnashari:
Please read the the line carefully.
I have stated that Shariat is common sense clearly .
The wordS are shariat and ignorance ,these are two seperate word and not inter related in that phrase.
the level below a person sees the Imam of the time as a normal human bieng is ignorant of Allah and Koran.
all the physical act of Shariat is common sense.(below that is of ignorance)
Many muslim modern generation rationalist shun it.
while I restate that Tariqat ,where our beloved Imam comes in picture is
Rational sense.
In The city where I stay ,the morning attendance in a Shariati mosque is not more than 2 % at 5.15 am.
While in an Ismaili Jamatkhana it is 30% of the jamaat at 4 am in the morning.( it is over 40% with sidhpuri momna jamaat)
It goes on for 1 hr 30 mts daily,much greater time taken for praying 5 times a day.
I observe the Noor (light) on the faces of the jamaat,it glows.I am aware
of their intelligence and success in wealth creation n charity.
the action of OUR faith is Real and visible.
Actions of Shariati is mainly beard,burqa n blast some where.

My personal opinion of Shariati is very true and my observation of Ismailis is seeing is believing.

I observe that at 85% of the debate IN THIS FORUM is at Zahiri level which requires few reading of book (rote learning) by quacks and jump into action at any
Shariati word n Phrase,all this is of candlelight value as defined by our very own Imams.
BHAI/Behen JAMAT KHANE AAO AUR NOOR KI REHMAT DEKHO.HAMARI TARIQAT AUR NURANI KA JALWA LUTOO

[zznoor]

Shariati look at the body and are not able to see, comprehend or imagine the Noor which is beyond the body.

shariati has no concept that Allah's noor reside ionly in one Muslim person
Noor of Imamat bestowed on Imam's[as] by allah[swt]...Is that what you meant to say ??

serch Quran and Ahadith and quote passages saying that Allah bestowed his noor in person of Imam Ali Ibn Talib RA

how about this quote from the Quran ?


005:015 There has come to you from Allah a Nur, and a Kitab Manifest

You will not prove your point by posting selective edited translations, truncated verses of Quran or half haditing

Here is complete 5:15 by two eminent translators and commentator.


Maudidi
(5:15) People of the Book! Now Our Messenger has come to you: he makes clear to you a good many things of the Book which you were wont to conceal, and also passes over many things.37 There has now come to you a light from Allah, and a clear Book.

Comment 37
▲37. God discloses some of the dishonest and treacherous dealings of theirs where He deems it necessary in order to strengthen the cause of the true religion, and ignores the disclosure of those which are not truly indispensable.
http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php

by Muhammad Asad
Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Kabah] [Light:of Allah] [Muhammad:Messenger to the People of the Book] [People of the Book:relationship to Muslims]

5:15 (Asad) O followers of the Bible! Now there has come unto you Our Apostle, to make clear unto you much of what you have been concealing [from yourselves) of the Bible, [28] and to pardon much. Now there has come unto you from God a light, and a clear divine writ, -

Note 28 (Quran Ref: 5:15 )
Inasmuch as verses 15-19 are addressed to the Jews and the Christians, the term al-kitab may suitably be rendered here as "the Bible". It is to be borne in mind that the primary meaning of the verb khafiya is "it became imperceptible" or "not apparent" or "obscure". and that the same significance attaches to the transitive form akhfa. There is. of course, no doubt that in its transitive form the verb also denotes "he concealed [something]". i.e., from others: but in view of the preceding phrase, "there has come unto you Our Apostle to make clear unto you", it is obvious that what is alluded to in this context is the concealing of something from oneself: in other words, it is a reference to the gradual obscuring, by the followers of the Bible, of its original verities which they are now unwilling to admit even to themselves.(Quran Ref: 5:15 )

http://www.islamicity.com/quranSearch

There are some excellent translations and tafseers you can study and benefit and it is all free on net

[zznoor]

The Imam does not have to follow our limitations. The Imam does not need to be seen as role-model by ismailis. We do not need to see his life as examplary. He is not bound by our wishes and our narrow understanding of His Creation.

The Imam does not have to follow "the Straight Path", He is well ahead, so much that the Straight Path follows the Imam.

Excellent , admirable sentiment of worshipper of fallible human being

[zznoor]

to Khoja isnashari:
Please read the the line carefully.
I have stated that Shariat is common sense clearly .
The wordS are shariat and ignorance ,these are two seperate word and not inter related in that phrase.
the level below a person sees the Imam of the time as a normal human bieng is ignorant of Allah and Koran.
all the physical act of Shariat is common sense.(below that is of ignorance)
Many muslim modern generation rationalist shun it.
while I restate that Tariqat ,where our beloved Imam comes in picture is
Rational sense.
In The city where I stay ,the morning attendance in a Shariati mosque is not more than 2 % at 5.15 am.
While in an Ismaili Jamatkhana it is 30% of the jamaat at 4 am in the morning.( it is over 40% with sidhpuri momna jamaat)
It goes on for 1 hr 30 mts daily,much greater time taken for praying 5 times a day.
I observe the Noor (light) on the faces of the jamaat,it glows.I am aware
of their intelligence and success in wealth creation n charity.
the action of OUR faith is Real and visible.
Actions of Shariati is mainly beard,burqa n blast some where.

My personal opinion of Shariati is very true and my observation of Ismailis is seeing is believing.

I observe that at 85% of the debate IN THIS FORUM is at Zahiri level which requires few reading of book (rote learning) by quacks and jump into action at any
Shariati word n Phrase,all this is of candlelight value as defined by our very own Imams.

It is not worth arguing with you which Islam is better

BHAI/Behen JAMAT KHANE AAO AUR NOOR KI REHMAT DEKHO.HAMARI TARIQAT AUR NURANI KA JALWA LUTOO

I will appreciate if you can make arrangement for me to attend Boston Jamatkhana for a week

[a_27826]

by Muhammad Asad

5:15 (Asad) O followers of the Bible! Now there has come unto you Our Apostle, to make clear unto you much of what you have been concealing [from yourselves) of the Bible, [28] and to pardon much. Now there has come unto you from God a light, and a clear divine writ, -

Note 28 (Quran Ref: 5:15 )
Inasmuch as verses 15-19 are addressed to the Jews and the Christians, the term al-kitab may suitably be rendered here as "the Bible".

In Asad's own translation, there is twice ""Now there has come unto you", then i wonder how did he conclude that " the term al-kitab may suitably be rendered here as "the Bible""

but i must be missing something because Asad is eminent translator and commentator.

[Admin]

36:12 speaks of Imam-e-Mubeen and the Shariati translate that one also by book and the haqiqati translate by Imam Manifest. The gap between both sides can never be filled.

[a_27826]

36:12 speaks of Imam-e-Mubeen and the Shariati translate that one also by book and the haqiqati translate by Imam Manifest. The gap between both sides can never be filled.

I don’t blame them (the non-imami muslims) for translating imam = register instead of imam = leader in 036:012. Otherwise the verse wont make sense to them.

036:012 Surely it is We who bring the dead to life and write down what they have forwarded and what they have left behind; everything We have numbered in a manifest imam.

Their their thinking is how can Allah write records in manifest Imam. Records are usually written in a register, therefore imam here must mean “register” and not “leader”

I think translations by translators are mixed with their interpretions as well, otherwise some verses wont make sense.

[shiraz.virani]

Siter zznoor, I have a huge respect for you and read each of your posts with great interest. However, if I may request you to kindly maintain peace on this forum because what you're trying to do is mix apples and oranges together.

We know you follow quran e paak and hadiths which is completely fine with me...You're happy with the shariah that you follow which is again fine with me. What Im not able to understand here is if everything is going smoothly in your life [zahir and batin] why are you here ???

If you're here to teach or enlighten us then how is it going to workout?? Like we are ismailis who believe in living imam = Imamin mubin /ulil amr where as for you its easy to understand and grasp the knowledge of quran.

Now coming back to the topic, you said and I quote

shariati has no concept that Allah's noor reside only in one Muslim person

Sister if I may ask you, are all prophet's/ messenger's related to each other ??

[zznoor]

by Muhammad Asad

5:15 (Asad) O followers of the Bible! Now there has come unto you Our Apostle, to make clear unto you much of what you have been concealing [from yourselves) of the Bible, [28] and to pardon much. Now there has come unto you from God a light, and a clear divine writ, -

Note 28 (Quran Ref: 5:15 )
Inasmuch as verses 15-19 are addressed to the Jews and the Christians, the term al-kitab may suitably be rendered here as "the Bible".

In Asad's own translation, there is twice ""Now there has come unto you", then i wonder how did he conclude that " the term al-kitab may suitably be rendered here as "the Bible""

but i must be missing something because Asad is eminent translator and commentator.

Here is word to word translation from
http://www.allahsquran.com/learn/#s5d7q1t0p1


Ya ahla
O People

alkitabi
(of) the Book!

Qad
Surely

jaakum
has come to you

rasooluna
Our Messenger

yubayyinu
making clear

lakum
To you

katheeran
much

mimma
of what

kuntum
you used to

tukhfoona
conceal

Mina
of

alkitabi
the Scripture

wayaAAfooAAan
and overlooking

katheerin
much.

qad
Surely

Jaakum
has come to you

Min
from

Allah
Allah

noorun
a light

wakitabun mubeenun
and a clear Book

15 Ya ahla alkitabi qad jaakum rasooluna yubayyinu lakum katheeran mimma kuntum tukhfoona mina alkitabi wayaAAfoo AAan katheerin qad jaakum mina Allahi noorun wakitabun mubeenun


Even if you believe Al Furkan is inferior to your revered books, it will immensely benefit you

[zznoor]

5:15
O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.