JK attire

Amrika · Post by **Amrika** » Wed May 02, 2007 2:02 am

Although I do not know who the author of this letter is, nevertheless I think she has made some very important issues that we (ladies) should be aware of when entering JK.

FW: Concerned Ismaili Lady in regard to JK attire

>Interesting read....puts into words what a lot of us are thinking & talking
>about...
>
> > >Dear brothers and sister in faith ,
> > >
> > >It is with a heavy heart and deep regret that I am writing this
> > >letter to you.
> > >
> > >
> > >Although I have the option of letting the matter slide, I am not able
> > >do so because as a Jamati member and as a Mother, I feel it is my
> > >duty to bring this matter to your attention, hoping that appropriate
> > >action will be taken.
> > >
> > >
> > >I believe if I do not do so, I have not served my Imam.
> > >
> > >
> > >He has repeatedly made farmans which I am going to provide to you,
> > >stressing the importance of wearing proper attire to Jamat Khana and
> > >observing the decorum of our Jamat Khanas.
> > >
> > >
> > >There is a tendency within the ladies in our Jamat these days, young
> > >and old, to wear flimsy clothes, and I mean truly flimsy clothes in
> > >Jamat Khana.
> > >
> > >
> > >I have also seen spouses of Jamati leaders including former
> > >mukhianimas and kamadianimas wearing spaghetti string blouses with
> > >see through dupataas.I think they ought to be exemplary in this
> > >regard.
> > >
> > >
> > >I have seen in our Jamat Khanas in New Jersey, Queens and Long Island
> > >Jamat Khanas in New York:
> > >
> > >1. Young girls wearing sleeveless blouses and shorts during summer
> > >excuse being they have come from picnics (common sense dictates, they
> > >should carry an extra pair of attire befitting the serene decorum of
> > >our Jamat Khana when they go on picnics or have their parents bring
> > >these when they come to JK). No other Muslim community would accept
> > >this flimsy excuse or allow half necked children in their houses of
> > >worships. Even the churches are not allowing such attires. Our young
> > >girls also wear mini-skirts to Jamat Khana and push and shove each
> > >other while standing in line to make dua or partake Ab E Safa....so
> > >are we an exception?
> > >
> > >2. Three and four year old girls wearing gagra cholis, with cholis
> > >being
> > >tied at the back of the neck and the rest of the back and most of the
> > >stomach is left open. Gagra then starts below the navel. If
> > >children at that tender age are encouraged to wear such revealing
> > >clothes, how then can parents stop them from wearing the same as they
> > >become teenagers? what examples do we want to set? and mothers have a
> > >responsibility to instil proper values and tradition into our
> > >children.
> > >
> > >3. Volunteers, especially heavy set ones, wearing their skirts at the
> > >knee level or above and so when they put Darbaris on the paat or lean
> > >to speak with Mukhianima or Kamadiani ma their thighs are revealed.
> > >Volunteers, of all the people, should be most conscientious of their
> > >attire.
> > >
> > >4. Women especially those in their 20s through fifties, wearing
> > >sleeveless blouses, tight fitting trousers, low neck blouses or
> > >dresses and open v cut back attires revealing the front and the
> > >back. Another new fashion is spaghetti string sari blouses, most of
> > >the time with one string on one side of the shoulder and the blouse
> > >itself is only 6 inches long, which leaves the rest of the body
> > >revealing down to the hip line. On one occasion I have even seen a
> > >former Mukhianima come to Jamat Khana in shorts, having come to Jamat
> > >Khana after attending a programme outside.
> > >Are
> > >we coming to Jamat Khana for our spiritual upliftment or some
> > >Bollywood programme?
> > >
> > >In view of the Golden Jubilee at our door-step, I hope Jamat will be
> > >repeatedly made aware that such flimsy bollywood style attires are
> > >not befitting a Muslim Jamat and especially not the Ismaili Jamat
> > >whose beloved Imam and his family make so many sacrifices so we can
> > >lead a spiritual, peaceful and happy life.
> > >
> > >Our Imam is the most respected Muslim leader in the world and we
> > >should all strive to keep that image in our heart and mind at all
> > >times and do not shame him in anyway by conducting ourselves
> > >immorally.
> > >
> > >This letter is not intended to undermine anyone or cause any pain or
> > >discomfort but to raise issues which I do feel are compelling and
> > >must remain our current priority,amongst other priorities.
> > >
> > >Thank you and Ya Ali Madad !
>
> > >P.S. Some of our leaders are wasting time and energy after Nandi i.e. how
> > >many plates to a tray or sweet & spicey dishes to be combined etc etc and
> > >other leaders dictate not to eat anything in the premises of Jamat Khana
> > >and if eating is allowed then they want to control the menu...don't you
> > >think that they should concentrate and spend time on teaching young
>ladies
> > >of our jamat what to wear when coming to JK - they can quote Mowlana
>Hazar
> > >Imam's farman on proper attire. The wise men will say "who will bell the
> > >cat?"
>

raheemhp · Post by **raheemhp** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:42 am

Yaa Ali Madad

its common in western world , sub continent are catching up must do something.

aminpunjani · Post by **aminpunjani** » Mon May 07, 2007 1:56 pm

YA ALI MADAD..
the problem discuss here is quite normal thing here in karachi,,,...
some time i go to tailor with my mom,,,i hav listen my self ,lady saying to tailor "kapre ache seena,buhat competition hai ajkal kapro main"...it means please make it more designer or beautiful ,there is much competition between the laides in the jamat kahans for dresses...
all the tailor knows the dates of maglis..the timings of maglis,name of maglis,

msot of the dresses r almost without sleeves,or some r quite open frm the front and the back,soem r transparent,tight fittings,etc...

there shld b decency in jamat khana,,

plz think of this and solve it..,,ya ali madad to all..
tc

shak00 · Post by **shak00** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:33 am

Why do ladies in the Jamat tend to wear sleeveless tops, tight jeans/trousers, short tops so that it reveals the bare lower back when seated or short skirts in Jamat Khana?. Do they not know that Jamat Khana is a house of worship? Any male members wearing this sort of clothes, that is sleeveless tops etc would feel ashamed to worship, as well as him being frowned upon, stopped and questioned.

We should attend Jamat Khana in a decent manner, as our beloved Hazar Imam wants us to, and yes there are a few Farmans regarding this matter as well as a Talika and Hazar Imam says in an extract of a Farman

"the Prophet had insisted that those who come to pray, come to pray in a state of physical and mental cleanliness........those of you who come to Jamat Khana regularly, should come dressed properly and neither with clothes which are unnecessarily costly, nor with clothes which are unnecessarily limited. I refer particularly to the younger generation." (Extract of Farman 03/08/1969 UK).

"I wish to see cleanliness and proper attire." (Extract of Farman 08/02/1970 Karachi, Pakistan).

Even in the Mandhirs or Gurdwaras they will offer you a shawl if you have limited clothes. There have even been cases where girls have recited parts of the Qur'an wearing mini skirts, and because we do not have the same characteristics as Talibaans (Shukr), and are cool headed Ismaili men, we tend to let it go and do nothing about it (Busdil).
So what examples are we creating? that we are westernized? and there is no need to give the example of just finished at the office etc, as we can all carry extra items of clothing if need be.
This also applies to Lady Volunteers too wearing see through blouses.
We all have aql and should use them as we are all brothers and sisters in the Jamat.

Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah was very strict in these matters and there are a few Farmans regarding this.

pannekoek · Post by **pannekoek** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:49 pm

I think its kind of sexist for the authors of this thread to concentrate on what women wear and not mention men's attaire. Your in danger of sinking into the real of zahari legalism like the sunni and 12er shia.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Thu May 10, 2007 2:03 am

pannekoek wrote:I think its kind of sexist for the authors of this thread to concentrate on what women wear and not mention men's attaire. Your in danger of sinking into the real of zahari legalism like the sunni and 12er shia.

Actually it is not - we have both men and women that dress totally unacceptably for attendance in jamat khana at all times.
we wear black, which is a color forbidden to us, we dress like HIPPIES when coming to Jamat Khana - tending to forget that many a farman of Hazar Imam wherein he has stated he is ALWAYS present in all Jamat Khanas.

But if our jamat is going to go to a club, which has a specific dresscode - lo and behold - they will dress it to a T.
But when coming in the presence of Hazar Imam in JK - well any old thing will do.

Shams

shak00 · Post by **shak00** » Thu May 10, 2007 4:32 am

pannekoek wrote:I think its kind of sexist for the authors of this thread to concentrate on what women wear and not mention men's attaire. Your in danger of sinking into the real of zahari legalism like the sunni and 12er shia.

How can it be sexist...I have mentioned men's clothing in my last post, but I have not really noticed men to attend Jamat Khana in an unorderly manner (suits, shirts etc) yes I do disagree with tight jeans or tight/sleeveless tops, shorts etc for men, as we are not really supposed to be wearing anything that reveals the body shape.

Sunni men according to Hadith are allowed to recite the Namaz by just covering from navel to lower legs at the minimum. Would us men do that in Jamat Khana? I think not.

That is why I say that we let matters go when we see women/girls go to the podium and recite Qu'ranic verses literally wearing hardly anything. They should not be given the Waro in the first place, then all the men stare from top to bottom as they are making their way.

Zahir is important as well as Batin you can't have one without the other. If we can then I suggest we all sit at home during Zahiri Deedars.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:21 am

There is lot of discussion like which type of dress one should wear in JK and which type one should not. I am not debating ki your thoughts are wrong. Its really good to come in simple dressing in JK but if it is not then what?? What I want to say being as Ismaili one should have clean and pure thoughts and not impure thoughts...If we think impure then there will be time when we will think that there should be hijab or veil.. So better that one should make heart pure and clean...why to stare on some one or so?

Virgo2 · Post by **Virgo2** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:12 pm

Star munir,

You are right that we should all come with clean heart to JK. However, Imam has made farmans that appropriate attire should be worn to JK and people should come clean to JK, and that includes washing hands after using bathroom facilities in JK. Many diseases come from improper handwashing. Men are more negligent than women.

If Imam was not concerned with proper attire and cleanliness he would not have made those farmans. Not following those farmans, because we believe that clean hearts are sufficient, is na-farmani of Imam's farmans.

Please read Imam's farmans to this effect. You will sense pain in his farman. Besides, we are Muslims and our Prophet and Imams have taught us modesty in every walk of our life. What makes us go against this? Our selfishness

No Muslim would allow a half naked woman in their Mosque. Even the Christians are forbidding women to come to Church with shorts, etc.

Women who come to JK inappropriately attired do not come to pray but they come to show off their clothes and bodies. Try talking to them sometime, they have the least of intelligence. They are immoral, ignorant and selfish.

Virgo2

Virgo2 · Post by **Virgo2** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:16 pm

brother Munir,

I forgot to mention the Hijab. Many women come to Jk with pacheri and they cover their head.

When Imam tells us to wear a Hijab, our women will. Until then we should follow his farman on proper and modest attire Not doing so, we are not fit to be his spiritual children.

Virgo2

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat May 12, 2007 7:50 am

As I wrote in my ealier post also ki I am not arguing with your points that one shoud wear appropriate dress while comming in Jamat Khana and I know that there are Farmans and it is obligation of all Ismailis to follow the Farmans.

There are some examples in our history also. Taara Rani while going to Jamat Khana used to discard all her precious jewellery and though She was Queen but she used to adopt most simple dress while going to prayer house.

I not mean to say ki those who are wearing short dresses in Jamat Khana its all ok. What I wanted to say was besides appropriate dressing one shuold have clean and pure heart. As some one wrote in post about man stare at women....so I wrote that first thing is that one should have clean and pure heart. The one with impure heart can stare the girl wearing salwar kurta and duppata too...So thats why just clean dresses is not enough there should be clean heart too.

sampatel5 · Post by **sampatel5** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:29 pm

This is a very interesting topic for me.My father used to say apples dont grow on banana trees.I would like to elaborate on this a bit.The parents of the children should instill a sense of decorum in their children as to what a Jamatkhana is and why do we go to JK.These days the JK is less of a place for worship and more of a place to chat and catch up,especially in the west.I say this from what I have heard people say after JK.Women like to wear what the present fashion trend is and impress other women how much in the forefront they are of fashion.If you ask most women they will confess that sensuality and sexuality is far from their mind when they wear these clothes.All they are seeking is some attention,even a look is enough.A comment is what they are looking for.Men on the other hand being more visual in their genetic behaviour take this as sensuality.So instead of concentrating on smaller issues lets us all try and convince the leaders that more attention and detail to be focussed on what the women wear.If the leaders are truly leaders then they can easily convince the trensetters that it is not OK to wear such type of attire in JK which is place of worship and contemplation of Allah.Provision of shawls and other coverings in the JK will help to a certain degree,when women who are dressed inappropriately have to wear a common shawl in JK.I hope I have helped in alleiviating to a degree this attire issue in JK.YAM

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:14 pm

Please correct me if I am wrong

I have been under the impression that if a woman appears in front of a man dressed in a provoking manner and this causes the man to do badnazar then the sin is entirely upon the woman.

I cannot quote the source but I have known this for over 30 years.

Shams

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:21 pm

shamsu wrote:Please correct me if I am wrong

I have been under the impression that if a woman appears in front of a man dressed in a provoking manner and this causes the man to do badnazar then the sin is entirely upon the woman.

I cannot quote the source but I have known this for over 30 years.

Shams

I would not say entirely on woman. Badnazar is a matter of perception. An impure one will see a naked woman even if she is under the purdah, nikab, whereas a pure person will see a naked woman as clothed.

The aim of spirituality is to rise to the level of the latter category so that no temptation can have an effect on anyone.

Ginan verse - nisi jal hove to kuchh kaar na aave

If one is pure as water, he/she is not affected by influence of time (including temptations and provocations).

khus · Post by **khus** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:03 am

I never wore black to JK...it's just a color it's an easy thing to part with. I love wearing bangles and I guess I will have to stop that...because while I am praying my own bangles distract me...I can't imagin how others around me feel. Granted I am not the only one to wear bangles while praying but one must admit they are LOUD. I also don't use a tasbhi....That is also a distraction. I only use a tashbi when I pray alone to keep count. I don't need to during jamatkhana since there is already someone couting. During the Khushali celebration everyone including myself were dressed in sprakly outfits! In the hall it looked like an indoor fireworks display. That was also distracting during dua. I am not blaming anyone I am at fault here myself....but we as a community should address it and begin changing our ways and hope one by one we can create an enviroment in which we can pray.

khus · Post by **khus** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:09 am

Why does my post have all the HTML code in my post? Sorry about that guys. Might be because I was using sucky IE browser.

KalCanadian · Post by **KalCanadian** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:26 pm

YAM.
6+ yrs the first posting was made in regards to how women are dressed in Khanne..... change so far is from BAD to WORSE..... I am supprised how men can even pray without not committing Badnaaz sin in khaane... Shame on us women ..... if this is what we are... No wonder there are so many cases of this person going out with this person's wife and this person left his wife for the other woman.. and this is not only in North America... its also happening in third world country. Is JK place where the grave gunnah of Zinna gets its root from.....

There is no use of placing our views in forums if this does not reach eyes of those who are responsible for our Jamati Tarika.... How about drawing attention of Huzur Department... if that is going to help?????

VERY HURTFUL FEMALE JAMATI MEMBER.......

Post by **Admin** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

I am not sure, I go to JK night and evening and I have rarely noticed any lady not having proper attire. Maybe we are the lucky ones in Montreal but it is the same when I travel, and I travel a lot.

Once I heard a waez in Parklands Nairobi, half hours of angry waez on women not putting proper attire.

I looked on the lady side, everyone was dressed properly.

I went out, some young girls were so suffocated with the waez, they were talking of coming from now on with less dress so that the person, who made that half hour waez which they considered a waste of time, could at least justify why he made this half hour waez to waste every ones time..

I think we may see ladies overdressed, maybe some with show-off dresses and so on but rarely dresses that would put people to shame. I think we have to recognise that nowadays people do understand that they should dress properly in Jamatkhana....

There is no "gunah" of "zina" that takes root in Jamatkhana! What a nonsense! Why degrade the sanctity of Jamatkhana?

KalCanadian · Post by **KalCanadian** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:35 pm

Ya Ali Madad and Thank You Admin Saheb Please... I too have a very traditional religious upbringing "Romeh Romeh maro Mowla vase.... not only in khaane but wherever i go... Behave in a way that someone proudly say I am that person's daughter - make my parents proud... and most importantly behave in a way that someone say look that is an Ismaili.. make my Mowla and the whole jamat proud.... But when sanctity of Jamatkhana gets degraded thats when there are people like myself who have hard time keeping mouth shut.  Hats off to man like yourself whose niyat is pak and do not see things around. BUT just becoz you are not looking does not mean allz well. Well... then lets all close our eyes and pretend that allz is well.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:43 pm

There is no "gunah" of "zina" that takes root in Jamatkhana! What a nonsense! Why degrade the sanctity of Jamatkhana?

Just because you dont see it does not mean its not happening....If at all you visit INDIA, please make sure you visit HYDERABAD and see the flesh market live and upclose.

But I also agree with you @ here in sugarland people dont dress up as if they're going to some party or something...People, espically youngsters are always sewa bhav and respectful !!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:30 pm

In Houston and also in Sugar Land and in most JK in Texas many womens and girls are prepared themselves like they are gong in fashion parade.

Haysal · Post by **Haysal** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:44 pm

I agree in Houston and Dallas the women dress up as though they are going for some party,just see on Dec 13 -they will wear the most expensive latest fashion trends in clothes and jewellery specially purchased for this day, go to beauty parlors spend at least minimum 200-300 dollars each on all this ( this is an average ) and take hours in dressing up for prayers which at maximum lasts less than an hour( actual dua and tasbih, taliika, farman etc not announcements) and in all this preparation - they don't reach on time for the dua. Once on Eid day I went to Houston masjid for prayers - the women dressed in simple clothes all were readily waiting for prayers to start and left the masjid in 15 min after the prayers - the masjid was closed within 45 min after prayers - our JK closes at least 3-4 hrs after prayers. There is less of prayers more of gossiping and socialising. JK has become more of a duniyavi gathering then spiritual. Total the money and hours wasted on this day per family per year on JK outings for dressing etc and we would feel ashamed. My daughters are not willing to come to JK as I cannot afford to spend $$$ every khusiali! SO who is responsible for this???!!!!!

Post by **Admin** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:10 pm

There is nothing to get ashamed. There is no compulsion in faith says the Holy Quran. Let those who want to put colorful dress do so and let those who want to put simple cloths put them also. lets us not be judgmental of what other do and let us all strive to do what we understand is right according to our understanding of the faith.

I always leave Jamatkhana last. I find there tons of peace and happiness. When I remove my shoes, I also leave there all the worries of this world.

Who are those people who want me to leave the house of my Beloved after 15 minutes only?

Haysal · Post by **Haysal** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:28 am

I agree what you say but it is easier said then done - try explaining this to my daughters - their clothes for khane for majlises and khusiali costs a lot they do not want to dress in last year fashions as all their friends come in latest bollywood styles! Not to forget the money needed for nails / hair. So if I don't give the money to buy what they want they will not come to khane. So last Khusiali I saved $$$ thinking they WILL come even if they are threatening not to------well they refused to come - so I saved $$$ but they and I got gunah for not going !
I wish the Farman for simple clothes would STRICTLY ENFORCED in khane And also no talking should be strictly enforced.

When I said leave soon after prayers I meant - no gossiping and socialising - everyone prays for max 30 min on average and spend more time gossiping. Calculate the time for prayers minus the time one enters and leaves and see ! You are exception but majority spend less time in prayers and more time talking loudly, specially young boys and girls they flirt openly!

Post by **Admin** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:49 pm

Kids should not be allowed to blackmail parents that they will not come to JK unless they are bought clothes etc... be strict, one day they wil thank you. There will always be excuses not to go to JK. if it is not clothes, it will be other things.

Jamatkhanas are not prisons, they can not be regulated like prisons.

Jamatkhana is the House ot the Imam, it is the house of the Generous and the Forgiver.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:25 pm

Yesterday...I was fortunate enough to attend khushiali...Btw khushiali mubarak to each and everyone of you ....Anyways coming back to the topic...After dua karawi announcement was made the jamat that was sitting in the outer wing of JK was trying to go inside and repent [dua karawi] ...but the jamat inside was busy chit chatting.

And then there was 2 ladies talking about something right in front of the volunteer [elderly lady] , I dunno what they were talking about but it made the volunteer tick and she cried out loud and I quote

" Jamat ko request karne mein aata hai ki socialise jamatkhane ke bahar kare, ander nahi "

The other thing that jamat should change is the way they touch their shoes...like before entering the JK, we touch out shoes [with our bare hands] , put them in one of the shelves and walk right into the JK, without washing our hands....I request to all those who do this please for gods sake...PLEASE WASH YOUR HANDS !!!....and please dont come up with bull crap saying once I go inside JK my whole body becomes pure because it doesnt !!!....WASH YOUR HANDS !!!

Post by **Admin** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:00 pm

We are an esoteric faith, not a shariati faith. Please remember this before making hasty conclusons and generalising.

Only Allah can judge and it in unfortunate that many people pretend to be appointed to judge others in this Forum

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:58 pm

We are an esoteric faith, not a shariati faith. Please remember this before making hasty conclusons and generalising.

Many times in Quran and in Hadith it is mentioned that we should keep our body clean and neat, hands are the part of our body too so we need to keep it clean as much possible.
Vadhu, Vaju, વઝૂં , وذو is compulsory in Islam so there is no question arise that we Ismailis should not follow that! also, it is not Shariyat practice but it is common practice, the good thing is in North America most Jamati members goes JK after taking full shower which is off course better then( performing Vadhu, Vadhu means only cleans your hands, legs and face) but the question still remain here after you performed Vadhu or shower but after that you are touching your shoes which are made with skins of animals and most animals skins are not pure like pigs, like donkeys, like snakes and who knows which animal skins has been used in making your shoes or sandals??? either way we are making our hands "napak" again touching the shoes and sandals. I have also seen many times that many young Jamati members goes toilet first and I also notices many times that the toilet floor is wet with human urine and their shoes touches with urine and after that they touch their shoes and take off and goes straight in JK without washing their hand after taking their shoes off???!! is this not napak thing? So Shiraz your idea is good but it is very hard to put it in practice because if every jamati members start to cleans their hand after taking their shoes , sandals off then there will be a big line, lot bigger than drinking niaz, our religion is flexible religion it does change on and off depends on the necessity, environments and circumstances of the jamats so as long as our Imam doesn't order us to wash our hand after taking our leathers shoes, scandals off then it is OK in my opinion.

Haysal · Post by **Haysal** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:54 pm

why even after using the toilet I have noticed many guys do not wash hands (eeww) I think we should start cleaning our hands before entering JK as we touch niyaz paellys with these napak and unhygenic hands - that is why vaju is recommended in Islam.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:13 pm

why even after using the toilet I have noticed many guys do not wash hands (eeww) I think we should start cleaning our hands before entering JK as we touch niyaz paellys with these napak and unhygenic hands - that is why vaju is recommended in Islam.

True that !!...As rightly said, Islam is way of life...Not only the holy quran teaches us about allah[swt], his prophets[as] , imams[as], angels etc etc...it also teaches us discipline

www.ismaili.net

JK attire

JK attire

JK Attire

badnazar

Re: badnazar

I will do my part!

JK Attire

JK Attire

JK Attire

JK Attire