our Kalima

alma107861 · Post by **alma107861** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:36 pm

I believe our Kalima is 3 part, yet when one of us passes away, the Jamat member leading the maiyyat loudly proclaims only two parts. Can anyone please provide the reasoning. I asked many a Waezeen and their usual answer is so other communities would not hassle us for saying our version of full Kalima. I do not believe this is the right answer.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:29 pm

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/10521

and also please read :

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... bacf82760c

alma107861 · Post by **alma107861** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:24 pm

Thank you very much for quick response and I really appreciate the links provided. I read thru the threads. I did not see a specific reason behind not reciting the thrid part other than hiding behind the same old lame excuse of other communities being present. these other communities know and read evrything about us in our books and now on the net. Infact, youtube is full of anti Ismaili sentiments and some videos even proclaim us Non-Muslims. They all know what our Kalima is, they all know what and how we believe in Imam-e-Zaman. So why not at the end of the day, so to speak. why hide now when we have separate land to complete our ceremonies. If you say an Imam of the time approved it, please provide name and source of this. 

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:00 pm

Thank you very much for quick response and I really appreciate the links provided. I read thru the threads. I did not see a specific reason behind not reciting the thrid part other than hiding behind the same old lame excuse of other communities being present. these other communities know and read evrything about us in our books and now on the net. Infact, youtube is full of anti Ismaili sentiments and some videos even proclaim us Non-Muslims. They all know what our Kalima is, they all know what and how we believe in Imam-e-Zaman. So why not at the end of the day, so to speak. why hide now when we have separate land to complete our ceremonies. If you say an Imam of the time approved it, please provide name and source of this. 

lol, good point !! But to be honest with you I think it was H.Imam Mohd Baqar [as] who said :

“ If we[imams] would have fixed the tashahud of Namaz , our followers and lovers would have been killed “ [Book Al Kafi]

During those times people used to do "taqayya" so it would be natural for imam of the time to follow the sunna of rasool[saw]

Ehtejaj-e-Tibrisi - Volume 1 : Imam Jaffar As Sadiq ( as ) says “ Thus when ever one says La ilaha illalla and Mohammedan Rasool Allah, he must immediately say Ali is Ameer ul Momineen Wali Ullah “

Why we dont recite this in janaza namaz well to be honest with you none but only imam can answer that !

Post by **Admin** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:34 pm

Walli Ulah is an Ithnashri concept. Not an Ismaili concept. Check the source.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:59 pm

Walli Ulah is an Ithnashri concept. Not an Ismaili concept. Check the source.

You're right admin bhai....Wali = protector, helper

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:35 pm

alma107861 wrote:I believe our Kalima is 3 part, yet when one of us passes away, the Jamat member leading the maiyyat loudly proclaims only two parts. Can anyone please provide the reasoning. I asked many a Waezeen and their usual answer is so other communities would not hassle us for saying our version of full Kalima. I do not believe this is the right answer.

I think funerals should be moments of peace and unity and not division. Non-Ismaili Muslims are also present in the funeral and obviously if we were to recite the entire kalima then they would not be able to participate in the recitation.

Post by **Admin** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:36 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:
Walli Ulah is an Ithnashri concept. Not an Ismaili concept. Check the source.
You're right admin bhai....Wali = protector, helper

No wali used in the sense of "Friend"

Our Ali is our Protector.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:11 am

I believe our Kalima is 3 part, yet when one of us passes away, the Jamat member leading the maiyyat loudly proclaims only two parts. Can anyone please provide the reasoning

In my opinion the true reason behind reciting only two part of Kalima is, in funeral many non-Ismailis peoples also come and join in maiyaat for a example Sunny brothers who don't accept Hazarat Ali as a 'AMIRUL MOAMNEEN" and the meaning of ALIULLAH" ALI IS ALLAH or Ali is from Allah, when some one not accepting Ali as "Amirul Moameen then how they can accept Ali as a Allah?, in their opinion which is Shirk and Tohid, so basically to avoid any confrontation and hurt someone's religious believes I think there is a practice to recite only two parts

2,And may be, if 3 parts of Kalima recited then it may be too long for participant in reciting.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:11 am

There is also one Allah's name 'WAALI' besides "Wali"
Does any one know the meaning of "Waali"?

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:53 pm

Waali [urdu] = Governor
Waali [Arabic] = Protector

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/99names.htm

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:09 pm

Thanks Shiraz Bhai for your quick response and thanks for the links of Allah's 99 holy names, just carious, Does Allah has only 99 names? I heard once that there is a book and in in that book 1000 Allah's names are mentioned !! any comments?

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:41 am

I asked many a Waezeen and their usual answer is so other communities would not hassle us for saying our version of full Kalima.

in funeral many non-Ismailis peoples also come and join in maiyaat for a example Sunny brothers who don't accept Hazarat Ali as a 'AMIRUL MOAMNEEN" and the meaning of ALIULLAH" ALI IS ALLAH or Ali is from Allah, when some one not accepting Ali as "Amirul Moameen then how they can accept Ali as a Allah?, in their opinion which is Shirk and Tohid, so basically to avoid any confrontation and hurt someone's religious believes I think there is a practice to recite only two parts

The reasons given to you by waezeen and as above by Mr. Agakhani seems quiet right to me other than that there is no any other religious reasons behind it as per my thinking.

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:47 pm

I heard some where that there are total 5 (five) Kalimas? does any one know more detail about this? or I heard wrong?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:42 pm

I heard some where that there are total 5 (five) Kalimas? does any one know more detail about this? or I heard wrong?

No, you heard right many Muslim believes that there are total 6 six (not five as you wrote above) kalimas are there, below are more detail about these kalimas but don't forget to read my questionnaire after that and give answer if you can:-

1, The Word of Purity (Tayyabah)
LA ILAHA ILL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR-RASOOL ALLAH

(There is no God but Allah Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah)

2, The word of Testimony (Shahaadat)
Ash-hadu an-La illaha ill Allahu, Wahdahu La Sharika lah, wa ash-Hadu anna Muhammadan 'abduhu wa Rasoolu

(I bear witness that no-one is worthy of worship but Allah, the One alone, without partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger)

3, The word of Glorification (Tumjeed)
Subhan Allahu, wal Hamdu lillahi, wa la illaha ilAllahu, wallahu Akbar. wa La hawla wa la quwwata illa billah-al 'alii-al 'adheem

(Glory be to Allah and Praise to Allah, and there is no God But Allah, and Allah is the Greatest. And there is no Might or Power except with Allah.)

4, The word of Unity (Tauhid)
La ilaha illAllahu Wahdahu La Shareeka lahu Lahul Mulku, Wala-hul Hamd, Yuhee Wa Yumeet, wa huwa Haiy-yul la Yamootu beyadihil khair, wa huwa 'ala kulli Shay'in Qadeer

(There is) none worthy of worship except Allah. He is only One. (There is) no partners for Him. For Him (is) the Kingdom. And for Him (is) the Praise. He gives life and acuses death. And He (is) Alive. He will not die, never, ever. Possessor of Majesty and Reverence. In His hand (is) the goodness. And He (is) the goodness. And He (is) on everything powerful.)

5, The word of Penitence (Astaghfar)
Astaghfirullaha Rabii min kulli dhanbin adhnabtahu amadan aw khataan, sirran aw alani-yatan wa atubu illaih minadh-dhanbilladhi, la a'lamu, innaka anta allamul ghayub, wa sattar ul'uyoubi, wa ghaffarudh-dhunubi, wa la hawla wa la quwwatta illa billahil alliyyil 'adheem

(I seek forgiveness from Allah, my Lord, from every sin I committed knowingly or unknowingly, secretly or openly, and I turn towards Him from the sin that I know and from the sin that I do not know. Certainly You, You (are) the knower of the hidden things and the Concealer (of) the mistakes and the Forgiver (of) the sins. And (there is) no power and no strength except from Allah, the Most High, the Most Great)

6, The words of rejecting disbelief (Rud-A-Kuffer)
Allahumma innii a'udhu bika min an ushrika bika shai-anw- wa ana a'lamu bihii. Tubtu anhu wa tabarra-tu min al-kufri wash-shirki wal-kizdhbi wal-ghiibati wal-bid’ati wan-namiimati wal fawaahishi wal-buhtani w-al-ma’aasii kulliha. Wa aslamtu wa aquulu La illaha illAllahu Muhammadur RasulAllah

(O Allah! Certainly I seek protection with You from, that I associate partner with You anything and I know it. And I seek forgiveness from You for that I do not know it. I repended from it and I made myself free from disbelief and polytheism and the falsehood and the back-biting and the innovation and the tell-tales and the bad deeds and the blame and the disobedience, all of them. And I submit and I say (there is) none worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.)

BUT question arise in my mind are as follows:-

* Why we ismaili have different Kalima then above kalimas?
* We Ismailis are also Muslim, then why we are not reciting 5 or 6 Kalima same like other muslim brothers reciting?
* Does we have any Farmans of any Imam on Kalima?
* Does we have any information in our ginans on Kalima?
* I have one old and rare book of Imamshahi sect in which, Syed Imam Shah has mentioned 5 (five) kalimas, Why our other pirs have not mentioned 5 kalimas?
* As an ismaili, if I recite 5/6 six kalimas then is it OK? or is it against our religion? if it is OK, then why other Ismailis are not reciting above 6 kalimas?
* Are not we ( Ismailis) Muslims like other Muslims ?

I will appreciate if any one in this forum give answer of my above questions. Munir, Shiraz, Kbhai, Admin Shmas B, Atharvedi, any one!.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:24 am

There is ginan of Pir Satgurnur on importance of Kalma.
I am posting some of the verses. You can read full ginan if you wish so
Ginan is Kalma kahore momino by Pir Satgur Nur
Eji heit preet man bhavsu tame japo Allah Rasool
Kalma Kaho dil Paak su to kul vigh hove dur

Translation: With love and true heart do zikar of Allah and Rasool. If you say Kalma with pure heart than all problems will be vanished.

Eji Jeenay Kalma suneeya Nabi ka ane kal manhei Nabi Kabool
Tena mukh manhei amrat varasta paavega ane dozak thi karshe dur

Translation: The one who listen to the Kalma of Prophet [PBUH] and accept Prophet [PBUH] in this era will find Amrat in his/her mouth and that Kalma will take him/her away from hell.

Eji Kalma Kaho Rasool ka jo sab katee paap ne vikh
Par sab fana hovegi baqi raheinge Khuda Rasool

Translation: Say Kalma of Rasool [PBUH] who vanishes sins and poison. Every thing will come to end except Allah and Rasool [PBUH]

Eji moman moorkh na hoiye aim boliya Pir Satur Noor
Kalma kahore Rasool ka to dekho noorey noor hajoor

Translation: Pir Satgur Nur says momins don’t become foolish. If you say Kalma of Rasool then you will see that Noor.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:27 am

As for your first question: As a Muslim we accept Kalma Shahada, which is recited by all Muslim. The importance is elaborated in Ismaili constitution which states
(A) The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims affirm the Shahadah 'La ilaha illa-llah, Muhammadur Rasulu-llah', the Tawhid therein and that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (Salla-llahu 'alayhi wa-salam) is the last and final Prophet of Allah. Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal.The Holy Prophet (S.A.S.) through the divine revelation from Allah prescribed rules governing spiritual and temporal matters.

About Kalma, I have quoted some verses of ginan of Pir Satgurnur in the previous post.
Kalma was part of Dua composed by Pir Sadardin and is also a part of current Dua in which as a Muslim we declare our faith in Allah and Rasul and as belonging to Shia Imami Ismaili brance of Islam we also accept our faith in Amir-ul-Momineen Ali and Shah Karim as our Present Imam.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:13 am

Munir,
Thanks for your answer and thanks for the ginanic verses of pir Satgur Noor.
but there are still few questions remain unanswered, please give decent answer if you can.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:55 pm

ok, I will try to answer your remaining questions:

* Why we ismaili have different Kalima then above kalimas?
We Ismailis have same kalma as of Muslims, as it is mentioned in the Ismaili constitution about which I have posted earlier.

As a Muslim in Kalma, we accept Allah and Prophet Muhammad as Rasool of Allah. As a Shia Imami Ismaili Muslim, we also declare our belief in Ameer ul momineen Ali and Shah Karim as our living and present Imam in dua.

* We Ismailis are also Muslim, then why we are not reciting 5 or 6 Kalima same like other muslim brothers reciting?* As an ismaili, if I recite 5/6 six kalimas then is it OK? or is it against our religion? if it is OK, then why other Ismailis are not reciting above 6 kalimas?

I think the Kalma we say encompasses our essential beliefs. I think it is not inappropriate if you want to say other kalmas that you have mentioned.

* Does we have any Farmans of any Imam on Kalima?

I do not know about Farman. However, Ismaili Constitution mentions it.

* I have one old and rare book of Imamshahi sect in which, Syed Imam Shah has mentioned 5 (five) kalimas, Why our other pirs have not mentioned 5 kalimas?

Are they same Kalimas, which other Muslims recite or different from that? We can not certainly say Pirs have mentioned it or not. According to Bhagat Kara Ruda more than 40 syeds among the children of Holy Pirs, particularly the children of Pir Sadardin and Pir Hassan Kabirdin had composed thousands of Ginans, most of which were lost with time. (Source: Ismaili Tariqah by Abu Aly)

* Are not we ( Ismailis) Muslims like other Muslims ?

I did not understand what exactly you want to ask in this question. But in very brief I can say like, other Muslims we believe in unity of God and Prophet Muhammad as last prophet. However, we are different because we believe in Living and Present Imam and our faith is esoteric faith.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:57 am

Are they same Kalimas, which other Muslims recite or different from that?

Yes, the Kalimas mentioned by Syed Imamshah in that rare book are same Kalimas which other Muslims brothers are reciting.

Are not we ( Ismailis) Muslims like other Muslims ?

What was I meant, we are Muslim first and Ismaili second, therefore I wanted to make sure when we are Muslims like other Muslims then why we are not reciting 5/6 Kalimas which other Muslims are reciting? but after reading your answers and listening a waez of Rai saheb specially on Kalimas, I realized that our Kalima is just fine because our kalima is a"Tarikati kalima" and other's kalimas are "shariyati" and we are above shariyat, so whatever kalima we are reciting is appropriate as per our Ismaili tariqua according Rai saheb.
Any way your answers of all of my questions are very decent and great thanks for that, meanwhile and as per your request I am posting two more ginanic verses on Kalima hope you will like it:-

1,એજી, કલમા કુંચી મંદિર કેરા,
બૈઢ ના સકે અનેરા,
કલમે વિના મોક્ષ ના હોવે,
સો કલમા કુંચી કેરા. ઇલાહી ભેદ તંત્વ નામ લીજે ...
Eji, kalma kunchi mandir kera,
Baidh na sake anera,
kalme vian moksh na hove,
so kalma kunchi kera. Ilahi bhed tantv nam lije...

2,એજી, જાણે સુણે ને બૂજે ઐસા,
ભેદ ના જાણે તૈસા.
બિન કલમે જો નમાજ ગુજારે,
શિર બીના ધડ કૈસા? ઇલાહી ભેદ તંત્વ નામ લીજે.....

Eji, jane sune ne buje aisa,
bhed na jane taisa.
bin kalme jo namaz gujare!
shir bina dhad kaisa? Ilahi bhed tantv nam lije.... **

FYI:- We are also reciting other kalimas in our current dua!! surprised, ha?? yes we are but not exactly the same texts of Kalimas but different texts but the meaning remain same. please compare other kalimas with our dua and you will sure surprise, so our du'a is also our kalimas
** I do not translate above verses knowing you know Gujarati very well, if some one else wants to know the translation of above ginanic verses then please let me know.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:51 am

About one year ago, Aly Panjwani & Sarosh Mawani shared with each other their passion for music. Ever since then, they have poured out their heart and soul into expressing their feelings, values, and religious ideas through a form of art that they consider synonymous to a form of prayer.

The 5 Pillars album is an initiative to pursue their musical talents by raising awareness about the peaceful nature of Islam. Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance, acceptance, and moral values which are all expressed in the 5 Pillars of Islam that every Muslim follows.

This song, “Shahada” specifically emphasizes the power of a one and only God, and the idea that Muhammad was His final messenger. With a beautiful tune, vocals, and soothing sounds “Shahada” is sure to take you to another world where music is passion.

http://www.youtube.com/TheFuzionBand

Post by **Admin** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:35 pm

There are many:

see 3rd paat of Dua and think about how many part we have in our ismaili Shahadat

our Kalima

our Kalima

Re: our Kalima