Depicting Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)...

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:54 am

Viru...the problem is that I may be a "Jack of all...but you are neither....the answer to your question is a Hugh Yes! It is only a matter of time...."And He made it a word enduring among His posterity." (8)

Posterity !!! is Not Wives !! Not uncles ! Not relatives !!! Nor any Mullahs or Schloars !

Lo WE have given you abundance of Posterity ! It is they insulter who is without any posterity !
Another Qur'anic verse states:

"O men, a proof has now come to you from your Lord;
We have sent down to you a Manifest light."

Allah refers to HIS own First person in the Quran as WE/US/OURS and not just as "I" ?

Allah say categorically that you will only be summoned through the Imam? why? and not only that but those who come through him will hold the quran in their "right hands" and will not be dealt with even a shreed unjustly...Allah says ...""Verily God wrongeth not even the weight of an atom.."...so if the "Isma" and the "infallible guidance" stopped then Allah's own word or promise is being contradicted...if the Imam has said so then it will happen....it would be a serious error of judgment to believe otherwise and I do know that you belong to that part of hypocrites who are like slow poison....who are trying to come close to the believers and distract them from their faith....Inshallah ! you will fail miserably !

The Quran makes it clear that there always exists in this world an infallible one through whose inherent auspiciousness this world exists....check ! It is there !...it is in the quran...

ADDITIONALLY:

"We sent thee not save as a Mercy for the worlds.." !...why would the mercy stop midway? No reason that I see..

"Verily God hath preferred Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of Imran, above HIS creatures...."

"And WE chose them and guided them unto a straight path.." !

The messenger, whenever he came, came to give the life, the living spirit, the divine light that can shine like the sun during the day, so that no soul with the slightest spark of sincerity could ever doubt the truth and unity of the message.

The divine message has always been sent through those fitly endowed.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:02 am

Viru...the problem is that I may be a "Jack of all...but you are neither....the answer to your question is a Hugh Yes! It is only a matter of time...."And He made it a word enduring among His posterity." (

Posterity !!! is Not Wives !! Not uncles ! Not relatives !!! Nor any Mullahs or Schloars !

Lo WE have given you abundance of Posterity ! It is they insulter who is without any posterity !
Another Qur'anic verse states:

"O men, a proof has now come to you from your Lord;
We have sent down to you a Manifest light."

Allah refers to HIS own First person in the Quran as WE/US/OURS and not just as "I" ?

Allah say categorically that you will only be summoned through the Imam? why? and not only that but those who come through him will hold the quran in their "right hands" and will not be dealt with even a shreed unjustly...Allah says ...""Verily God wrongeth not even the weight of an atom.."...so if the "Isma" and the "infallible guidance" stopped then Allah's own word or promise is being contradicted...if the Imam has said so then it will happen....it would be a serious error of judgment to believe otherwise and I do know that you belong to that part of hypocrites who are like slow poison....who are trying to come close to the believers and distract them from their faith....Inshallah ! you will fail miserably !

The Quran makes it clear that there always exists in this world an infallible one through whose inherent auspiciousness this world exists....check ! It is there !...it is in the quran...

ADDITIONALLY:

"We sent thee not save as a Mercy for the worlds.." !...why would the mercy stop midway? No reason that I see..

"Verily God hath preferred Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of Imran, above HIS creatures...."

"And WE chose them and guided them unto a straight path.." !

The messenger, whenever he came, came to give the life, the living spirit, the divine light that can shine like the sun during the day, so that no soul with the slightest spark of sincerity could ever doubt the truth and unity of the message.

The divine message has always been sent through those fitly endowed.

Helloooooo !!!!!.....We are debating on DRINKING sister and not IMAMAT ....once we are through DRINKING , I promise you that I will listen to what all you have to say regarding other issues including IMAMAT...insha allah !

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:09 am

Virundra...

Viru....however hard you try to use your gift of the gab....act coy....pretend....give everyone here a lie of the land....the fact is that you are merely splashing water and you cannot short circuit my arguments - so far many have tried - more knowledgeable than you and have got beaten....

You do not know the Quran....nor do you know why you face the Kaaba....

I have already given you my perspective in regards to "Qibla" which is a goal and certainly Ismailis not only have their own "qibla" but going for Hajj too is part of their "Articles of faith"....

You are facing the Kaaba standing right inside your own masjid, for prayers but the quran does not say you do this for prayer and yet you do !....

So there has to be a reason ...and 'so that ye may be guided" says the quran...the question is guided by whom and how ? and why face the Kaaba when you are right inside the masjid ? You have not explained....even your understanding about qibla is mediocre at best...the issue is not why one should go to Kaaba....the issue is why do you face Kaaba daily (for it is NOT for prayers as per the quran) and so you really have no clue why you even do it? that is the issue ...

Jews were facing Jerusalem...muslims did the same for some 16 months and then they were told to now turn towards the Kaaba.

Sura Noor makes clear distinctions in verses 36 - 37....and it is clear that the "houses" mentioned in these verses in Sura Noor are NOT "mosques" or masjids...but the sacred Houses of God (Bayt Allah al Haram....

Now what is Bayt Allah al Haram? it is not the same as "al-masjid al haram....and so you folks stand inside the "al-masjid.....and have to face "Bayt Allah....."....

Jamat Khana is also "Bayt Allah al haram.." and so now what is the Kaaba....it was raised by Prophet Abraham and Ishmael....Prophet's wife is buried there and Imam Ali (as) was born inside the Kaaba....

Tell me the number of times you circum ambulate the kaaba? how many times?

An eminent SUNNI scholar Maulvi Lutfullah Nishapuri says..." The circum ambulation of the Kaaba has been made obligatory for you muslims because this is the birthplace of Ali Ibn Abi Taleb....(Al e Imran)...it is a holys shrine by virtue of it being raised by Prophet Abraham and Ishmael....and the patriach of Al e Imran having been born inside the kaaba.

Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran above all people- a line of descendants, one succeeding the other; and Allah heareth and knoweth all things." (Quran 3:33,34)

This is the Intercession given as a Mercy to you....Tawassul of the prophets and their family (ITRAT)....and frankly you have no unmediated relationship....so stop fooling yourselves....shed this delusional grandeur you guys have..

Suyuti transmits a saying of Caliph Aboo Bakr.." when this verse was revealed we were all in the mosque and a man arose and asked the prophet..."whose houses are these"?....the Prophet replied..."they are the houses of the prophets".....Aboo Bakr then says..." I rose and said..." is the house of Ali and Fatema as Zahara also amongst these houses?...the prophet replied.." Yes! they are amongst the best.."...and so now I hope you understand why Ismailis go to Jamat Khana ?...these are the house which have been elevated by Allah and so read Sura Noor...

Now lets go a step further...

Pickthal 24:35] Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a shining star. (This lamp is) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself) though no fire touched it. Light upon light. Allah guideth unto His light whom He will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 24:35]

The great mystery of existence, its eternal origin and infinite permanence is described in the most comprehensive and eloquent parable of light, which contains layer upon layer of allegorical comparisons to make apparent to man the purpose of the great author of the universe.

The performance of light is to manifest.

It is Allah who manifests the universe. The human beings can only think of the factors of the spiritual world in terms of the phenomenal experience obtainable through physical senses; and in the phenomenal world light is the purest thing known to man.

Due to the limitations of human experience man cannot see the real light but perceive only the lighted objects. . It is dependent upon some source external to itself...

The perfect light of Allah is free from any such defects. It prevails everywhere. It envelops everything. It is independent of time and space.

The niche (mishkat) is the recess in the wall, high from the ground in these elevated houses.

The divine light, according to the parable, is placed high above everything, all that which has been created, the whole universe.

The lamp is the core of the real illumination. It is placed inside a glass which protects it from any outside interference or disturbance .

The illumination shines bright like a star.

In this world, governed by the laws of cause and effect, it becomes natural to know what makes the lamp burn, as no lamp burns without oil.

So to give man the idea of causative factor of the generation of light, it is said that the oil of the blessed tree of olive keeps the lamp alive.

It is said that after the great flood, the olive tree was the first to grow on the earth. This mystic olive is not localised. It is neither of the east nor of the west.

It is universal like the light of Allah.

The light of wisdom (the Quran) in the heart of the Holy Prophet is as protected as the lamp in the glass.

Verses 77 to 79 of al Waqi-ah clearly state that the Quran is a protected book; and no one can touch it save the thoroughly purified, the Ahl ul Bayt, according to the verse 33 of Ahzab.

Therefore the true interpretation of "light upon light" is the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt.

It is further made clear in the next verse.

For "Allah guides whom He wills to His light" see the commentary of al Baqarah: 256 and 257-he who believes in Allah, indeed, has taken hold of the firmest handhold (or rope) which will not break off.

Allah brings them out of the darkness into light-It is obvious that those who are guided unto His light are the thoroughly purified ones....and so without intercession you are doomed !

They alone are the manifestations of the real light.

Those who follow these reflection of the divine light receive guidance from the grace of Allah to the extend or degree of their sincere attachment to them.

Salman was the only companion of the Holy Prophet who achieved the distinction of becoming one of the Ahl ul Bayt.

The Holy Prophet said:

"My Ahl ul Bayt are like the ark of Nuh. Whosoever sails on it is safe, and whosoever holds back shall perish."

Nubuwwah and Imamah, jointly or separately, are the most perfect guidance unto the light of Allah. ...that is why you are facing the kaaba !

Allah Himself chooses and appoints the guide, but His choice is not arbitrary.

There are conditions which have to be fulfilled. Refer to the commentary of al Baqarah: 124.

When Allah appointed Ibrahim as an Imam after testing his faith and awareness, for the whole mankind, he requested Allah to continue this august office in his progeny.

Allah agreed to do so, but "it is a covenant which shall not reach the unjust (zalim)" was added.

According to verse 13 of Luqman polytheism is the greatest injustice (zulm), therefore as explained in detail in the commentary of al Baqarah: 124 the Ahl ul Bayt of the Holy Prophet was the only group which never worshipped any ghayrallah.....so now I hope you know why their houses have been elevated and which you have to face daily ?

After becoming Muslims if you had accepted the Imams of the Ahl ul Bayt as YOUR guides, and followed them, then, according to the degree of Your sincerity and awareness, you are entitled to occupy suitable position in the journey towards the enlightenment available from the light of Allah.....as most of you reneged and betrayed and Allah ...now the best option you have is to face Kaaba...and this too has been given as a mercy to you as Muhamad (saw) was a Mercy to all mankind...

Mere verbal profession of faith in Allah without attachment to the Ahl ul Bayt is as bad as hypocrisy.

The existence of the supreme being has been compared to light in order to make human intellect understand a great attribute of Allah, otherwise He is the inconceivable absolute who has created the light. Light is His manifestation. It is not His being.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

To know the proper application of ayah al Nur the following point..

(x) Light as a symbol of guidance is one of the attributes of Allah. It is manifested in both the realms of creation and legislation.

Allah is the light through which every created being comes into evidence, and every being is guided toward the destination where it should reach.

To reach to the destination of salvation, bliss and satisfaction it has to do that which guidance points out.

In every realm and sphere there is a point in which the light of creation or guidance manifests itself originally, and then illuminates the surroundings.

Niche {mishtat) refers to this "point" as the exalted holy place chosen for the manifestation of Allah's name and attributes and is found in the Houses of the Prophets and their ITRAT.

There should be an entity whose cognitive self becomes the focus of light.

Such entities have been pointed out clearly in Ahzab: 33 and Ali Imran: 61 as the first and the foremost in receiving the light of existence in the arc of descent and the-last in the arc of ascent. In the realm of creation they are the best entities or "points" in which the light of creation manifested itself originally. In the realm of legislation and guidance too they are the best models.

If applied to any individual the niche is the power of expression and the "house" (in which the niche is situated) is the body....and the elevated houses referred to in the same Sura Nur belongs to them and so are not masjids as some seem to believe !

If applied to the group of the Ahl ul Bayt and the prophets, the niche in the house is the Holy Prophet and the Imams from his pure progeny.

The divine light passed through the purest transparent chain of prophets, without any detour, and manifested itself in its full glory in the Holy Prophet, to illuminate the human society for ever and now in Al e Imran.

All the mediums-lamp, glass etcetera-which are the various stages between the original source and the final spreading of the light should be of the highest transparency so as not to affect the purity of light passing through them.

It implies that the minds, hearts, loins and wombs of the ancestors of the Holy Prophet were and are free from the dirt of polytheism.

The house in which the niche always remained is described in verse 36-37 (Sura Noor) as explained .

There always exists a group of persons whose hearts and minds are fully occupied with the remembrance of Allah... so don't talk about numbers as Allah makes no distinctions amongs HIS prophets and the same is true with the Rightful Imams !

The niche is the source of light, and the oil of the blessed tree is a pure "light above light".

There is not a slightest trace of darkness.

Darkness or evil exists outside the sphere of the houses in which the niche is located and cannot enter into it.

Also refer to the commentary of al Baqarah: 275; Nisa: 175 ; Ma-idah: 1 5 and Yunus: 87.

If you knew the quran then you would not have asked why Ismailis go to Jks...or what is a Jamat Khana? or why you face the kaaba? etc etc....simply broadcasting too much on the net like you do, is not necessarily a sign of intelligence !

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:20 am

Virundra...

Viru....however hard you try to use your gift of the gab....act coy....pretend....give everyone here a lie of the land....the fact is that you are merely splashing water and you cannot short circuit my arguments - so far many have tried - more knowledgeable than you and have got beaten....

You do not know the Quran....nor do you know why you face the Kaaba....

I have already given you my perspective in regards to "Qibla" which is a goal and certainly Ismailis not only have their own "qibla" but going for Hajj too is part of their "Articles of faith"....

You are facing the Kaaba standing right inside your own masjid, for prayers but the quran does not say you do this for prayer and yet you do !....

So there has to be a reason ...and 'so that ye may be guided" says the quran...the question is guided by whom and how ? and why face the Kaaba when you are right inside the masjid ? You have not explained....even your understanding about qibla is mediocre at best...the issue is not why one should go to Kaaba....the issue is why do you face Kaaba daily (for it is NOT for prayers as per the quran) and so you really have no clue why you even do it? that is the issue ...

Jews were facing Jerusalem...muslims did the same for some 16 months and then they were told to now turn towards the Kaaba.

Sura Noor makes clear distinctions in verses 36 - 37....and it is clear that the "houses" mentioned in these verses in Sura Noor are NOT "mosques" or masjids...but the sacred Houses of God (Bayt Allah al Haram....

Now what is Bayt Allah al Haram? it is not the same as "al-masjid al haram....and so you folks stand inside the "al-masjid.....and have to face "Bayt Allah....."....

Jamat Khana is also "Bayt Allah al haram.." and so now what is the Kaaba....it was raised by Prophet Abraham and Ishmael....Prophet's wife is buried there and Imam Ali (as) was born inside the Kaaba....

Tell me the number of times you circum ambulate the kaaba? how many times?

An eminent SUNNI scholar Maulvi Lutfullah Nishapuri says..." The circum ambulation of the Kaaba has been made obligatory for you muslims because this is the birthplace of Ali Ibn Abi Taleb....(Al e Imran)...it is a holys shrine by virtue of it being raised by Prophet Abraham and Ishmael....and the patriach of Al e Imran having been born inside the kaaba.

Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran above all people- a line of descendants, one succeeding the other; and Allah heareth and knoweth all things." (Quran 3:33,34)

This is the Intercession given as a Mercy to you....Tawassul of the prophets and their family (ITRAT)....and frankly you have no unmediated relationship....so stop fooling yourselves....shed this delusional grandeur you guys have..

Suyuti transmits a saying of Caliph Aboo Bakr.." when this verse was revealed we were all in the mosque and a man arose and asked the prophet..."whose houses are these"?....the Prophet replied..."they are the houses of the prophets".....Aboo Bakr then says..." I rose and said..." is the house of Ali and Fatema as Zahara also amongst these houses?...the prophet replied.." Yes! they are amongst the best.."...and so now I hope you understand why Ismailis go to Jamat Khana ?...these are the house which have been elevated by Allah and so read Sura Noor...

Now lets go a step further...

Pickthal 24:35] Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a shining star. (This lamp is) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself) though no fire touched it. Light upon light. Allah guideth unto His light whom He will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 24:35]

The great mystery of existence, its eternal origin and infinite permanence is described in the most comprehensive and eloquent parable of light, which contains layer upon layer of allegorical comparisons to make apparent to man the purpose of the great author of the universe.

The performance of light is to manifest.

It is Allah who manifests the universe. The human beings can only think of the factors of the spiritual world in terms of the phenomenal experience obtainable through physical senses; and in the phenomenal world light is the purest thing known to man.

Due to the limitations of human experience man cannot see the real light but perceive only the lighted objects. . It is dependent upon some source external to itself...

The perfect light of Allah is free from any such defects. It prevails everywhere. It envelops everything. It is independent of time and space.

The niche (mishkat) is the recess in the wall, high from the ground in these elevated houses.

The divine light, according to the parable, is placed high above everything, all that which has been created, the whole universe.

The lamp is the core of the real illumination. It is placed inside a glass which protects it from any outside interference or disturbance .

The illumination shines bright like a star.

In this world, governed by the laws of cause and effect, it becomes natural to know what makes the lamp burn, as no lamp burns without oil.

So to give man the idea of causative factor of the generation of light, it is said that the oil of the blessed tree of olive keeps the lamp alive.

It is said that after the great flood, the olive tree was the first to grow on the earth. This mystic olive is not localised. It is neither of the east nor of the west.

It is universal like the light of Allah.

The light of wisdom (the Quran) in the heart of the Holy Prophet is as protected as the lamp in the glass.

Verses 77 to 79 of al Waqi-ah clearly state that the Quran is a protected book; and no one can touch it save the thoroughly purified, the Ahl ul Bayt, according to the verse 33 of Ahzab.

Therefore the true interpretation of "light upon light" is the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt.

It is further made clear in the next verse.

For "Allah guides whom He wills to His light" see the commentary of al Baqarah: 256 and 257-he who believes in Allah, indeed, has taken hold of the firmest handhold (or rope) which will not break off.

Allah brings them out of the darkness into light-It is obvious that those who are guided unto His light are the thoroughly purified ones....and so without intercession you are doomed !

They alone are the manifestations of the real light.

Those who follow these reflection of the divine light receive guidance from the grace of Allah to the extend or degree of their sincere attachment to them.

Salman was the only companion of the Holy Prophet who achieved the distinction of becoming one of the Ahl ul Bayt.

The Holy Prophet said:

"My Ahl ul Bayt are like the ark of Nuh. Whosoever sails on it is safe, and whosoever holds back shall perish."

Nubuwwah and Imamah, jointly or separately, are the most perfect guidance unto the light of Allah. ...that is why you are facing the kaaba !

Allah Himself chooses and appoints the guide, but His choice is not arbitrary.

There are conditions which have to be fulfilled. Refer to the commentary of al Baqarah: 124.

When Allah appointed Ibrahim as an Imam after testing his faith and awareness, for the whole mankind, he requested Allah to continue this august office in his progeny.

Allah agreed to do so, but "it is a covenant which shall not reach the unjust (zalim)" was added.

According to verse 13 of Luqman polytheism is the greatest injustice (zulm), therefore as explained in detail in the commentary of al Baqarah: 124 the Ahl ul Bayt of the Holy Prophet was the only group which never worshipped any ghayrallah.....so now I hope you know why their houses have been elevated and which you have to face daily ?

After becoming Muslims if you had accepted the Imams of the Ahl ul Bayt as YOUR guides, and followed them, then, according to the degree of Your sincerity and awareness, you are entitled to occupy suitable position in the journey towards the enlightenment available from the light of Allah.....as most of you reneged and betrayed and Allah ...now the best option you have is to face Kaaba...and this too has been given as a mercy to you as Muhamad (saw) was a Mercy to all mankind...

Mere verbal profession of faith in Allah without attachment to the Ahl ul Bayt is as bad as hypocrisy.

The existence of the supreme being has been compared to light in order to make human intellect understand a great attribute of Allah, otherwise He is the inconceivable absolute who has created the light. Light is His manifestation. It is not His being.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

To know the proper application of ayah al Nur the following point..

(x) Light as a symbol of guidance is one of the attributes of Allah. It is manifested in both the realms of creation and legislation.

Allah is the light through which every created being comes into evidence, and every being is guided toward the destination where it should reach.

To reach to the destination of salvation, bliss and satisfaction it has to do that which guidance points out.

In every realm and sphere there is a point in which the light of creation or guidance manifests itself originally, and then illuminates the surroundings.

Niche {mishtat) refers to this "point" as the exalted holy place chosen for the manifestation of Allah's name and attributes and is found in the Houses of the Prophets and their ITRAT.

There should be an entity whose cognitive self becomes the focus of light.

Such entities have been pointed out clearly in Ahzab: 33 and Ali Imran: 61 as the first and the foremost in receiving the light of existence in the arc of descent and the-last in the arc of ascent. In the realm of creation they are the best entities or "points" in which the light of creation manifested itself originally. In the realm of legislation and guidance too they are the best models.

If applied to any individual the niche is the power of expression and the "house" (in which the niche is situated) is the body....and the elevated houses referred to in the same Sura Nur belongs to them and so are not masjids as some seem to believe !

If applied to the group of the Ahl ul Bayt and the prophets, the niche in the house is the Holy Prophet and the Imams from his pure progeny.

The divine light passed through the purest transparent chain of prophets, without any detour, and manifested itself in its full glory in the Holy Prophet, to illuminate the human society for ever and now in Al e Imran.

All the mediums-lamp, glass etcetera-which are the various stages between the original source and the final spreading of the light should be of the highest transparency so as not to affect the purity of light passing through them.

It implies that the minds, hearts, loins and wombs of the ancestors of the Holy Prophet were and are free from the dirt of polytheism.

The house in which the niche always remained is described in verse 36-37 (Sura Noor) as explained .

There always exists a group of persons whose hearts and minds are fully occupied with the remembrance of Allah... so don't talk about numbers as Allah makes no distinctions amongs HIS prophets and the same is true with the Rightful Imams !

The niche is the source of light, and the oil of the blessed tree is a pure "light above light".

There is not a slightest trace of darkness.

Darkness or evil exists outside the sphere of the houses in which the niche is located and cannot enter into it.

Also refer to the commentary of al Baqarah: 275; Nisa: 175 ; Ma-idah: 1 5 and Yunus: 87.

If you knew the quran then you would not have asked why Ismailis go to Jks...or what is a Jamat Khana? or why you face the kaaba? etc etc....simply broadcasting too much on the net like you do, is not necessarily a sign of intelligence !

I dont understand why you're jumping from one topic to another ??....I have answers for each and every question of yours but it shall be answered systematically.

Stop flooding the screen and please stop misinterpreting the holy quran again n again......Stick to the topic.....once we are through we will have debates on various issues !!

The current topic is DRINKING !!!! ....stick to the topic and stop running away from it !!!

Once again the current topic is DRINKING ....Hope this helps !

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:21 am

Viru.....You cannot now narrow this debate down to just one issue (which too i have addressed effectively)..you kept on expanding the argument and each time you got smacked on an issue you introduced a different dimension.....and you will not pick and choose nor will you be the one to call the shots...I have already shown you many ayats which seem to praise wine and your paradise has been made so colourful with promise of sexual dalliance and goblets of wine...."a drink pure and holy" Lol !!!! and so what esle do you want to talk about?

I know you like to slither like an eel...but with me I am a step ahead of you...

The Quran makes a clear distinction between blood relationship in accordance with the Decree of Allah and those without and this denotes the superiority of Aliyy who was the Prophet's first cousin and son in law, whom the Prophet had also brought up as a son since childhood - each night Aliyy as a child used to sleep on the chest of the prophet and he used to take something from his mouth and put it into Aliyy's mouth (peace be on them )....

For too long you have been barking at the ismailis....and that too for the wrong reasons ...it is folks like you are orphans in reality !

Bibi Fatema as Zahara was the beloved daughter of the Prophet and Bibi Khadijah and Hassan and Hussain were their children and the favourite grand children of the Prophet and the pure progeny or posterity from their ancestry clearly establishes this lineage of "blood relationship" which Allah has favoured over all other relationships....

"Lo ! WE have given you abundant Posterity...it is thy insulter who is without posterity...Motherless and Quran less !!!! so now drink your wine...it is pure and holy !

Your blind beliefs exhibited as radicals is just so sick and the belief so strangled by hate and violence that you guys have lost the will and the inclination to discuss or realistically look into the real Islamic history and to know the Prophet's religion ..... the hate and violence against other faiths that you create for a specific purpose has just caused the growth of unacceptable beliefs and actions against other human beings that now threatens the lives of others that don't believe or live the same way, as you do....and then you come here an pretend you are an Ismaili...lol !!

Even God is lamenting over miscreants like you:

" Is there in their hearts a disease or do they have doubts or fears, lest Allah and His Prophet should wrong them in Judgment?" .

How can you point a mote in anyone's eye when you have the beam in your own eyes?

The majority are not impressed by your poisoned rhetoric and distorted garbage, if I may say so. Ants are crawling at the gates of the Prophet's family. ....nobody gives a damn "

9: 12 But if they violate their oaths After their covenant And taunt you for your Faith Fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: For their oaths are nothing to them: That thus they may be restrained Fight them and Allah will Punish them by your hands. Cover them with shame, Help you (to victory) over them, Heal the breasts of Believers,

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:38 am

Viru.....You cannot now narrow this debate down to just one issue (which too i have addressed effectively)..you kept on expanding the argument and each time you got smacked on an issue you introduced a different dimension.....and you will not pick and choose nor will you be the one to call the shots...I have already shown you many ayats which seem to praise wine and your paradise has been made so colourful with promise of sexual dalliance and goblets of wine...."a drink pure and holy" Lol !!!! and so what esle do you want to talk about?

I know you like to slither like an eel...but with me I am a step ahead of you...

The Quran makes a clear distinction between blood relationship in accordance with the Decree of Allah and those without and this denotes the superiority of Aliyy who was the Prophet's first cousin and son in law, whom the Prophet had also brought up as a son since childhood - each night Aliyy as a child used to sleep on the chest of the prophet and he used to take something from his mouth and put it into Aliyy's mouth (peace be on them )....

For too long you have been barking at the ismailis....and that too for the wrong reasons ...it is folks like you are orphans in reality !

Bibi Fatema as Zahara was the beloved daughter of the Prophet and Bibi Khadijah and Hassan and Hussain were their children and the favourite grand children of the Prophet and the pure progeny or posterity from their ancestry clearly establishes this lineage of "blood relationship" which Allah has favoured over all other relationships....

"Lo ! WE have given you abundant Posterity...it is thy insulter who is without posterity...Motherless and Quran less !!!! so now drink your wine...it is pure and holy !

Your blind beliefs exhibited as radicals is just so sick and the belief so strangled by hate and violence that you guys have lost the will and the inclination to discuss or realistically look into the real Islamic history and to know the Prophet's religion ..... the hate and violence against other faiths that you create for a specific purpose has just caused the growth of unacceptable beliefs and actions against other human beings that now threatens the lives of others that don't believe or live the same way, as you do....and then you come here an pretend you are an Ismaili...lol !!

Even God is lamenting over miscreants like you:

" Is there in their hearts a disease or do they have doubts or fears, lest Allah and His Prophet should wrong them in Judgment?" .

How can you point a mote in anyone's eye when you have the beam in your own eyes?

The majority are not impressed by your poisoned rhetoric and distorted garbage, if I may say so. Ants are crawling at the gates of the Prophet's family. ....nobody gives a damn "

9: 12 But if they violate their oaths After their covenant And taunt you for your Faith Fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: For their oaths are nothing to them: That thus they may be restrained Fight them and Allah will Punish them by your hands. Cover them with shame, Help you (to victory) over them, Heal the breasts of Believers,

Does this mean that zina khan has no answer regarding DRINKING ?? ....Does this mean that zina khan is speechless when it comes to pin pointing an exact aayat from the holy quran that talks about drinking ? Does this mean that zina khan has no idea whether god will serve the wine that could intoxicate momins or not ??

Does this mean that zina khan will continue to brain wash innocent ismailis by misinterpreting that holy quran ? Just like she did moments ago....

Even God is lamenting over miscreants like you:

" Is there in their hearts a disease or do they have doubts or fears, lest Allah and His Prophet should wrong them in Judgment?"

Zina Khan is the one who is pro alocholism/ pro adultry [just like her name] / Ok with consumption of pork and yet ....Im the one in whose heart theirs a disease

thank you for your kind thoughts sister.....In whose heart their's a disease, lets just leave that on allah[swt]

Your denial to give us the proof on DRINKING from the holy quran itself is the proof that you really are jack of all trade , master of none

thank you
yaa ali madad
khuda hafiz

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:49 am

Go and read the Quran...does it really talk of drinks or Intoxication? and so what is prohibited? drinks or intoxications? Now if your women, food, wealth, passion, lust, greed, dishonesty, lies, material comfort intoxicates and impairs you then it is haram...so logical ! and as straight forward as it gets ! Anything in EXCESS is haram...but then what Prophet made halal you have made haram ! and vice versa....

The notion your cult unleashes of everlasting "punishment" on their followers is incompatible with and unworthy as it contradicts Allah's mercy and benevolence !

Allah has NOT created mankind just to consign them to hell, as you want us to believe.

The fear you instil in people corrupts true morality when infact the contingency of this life should make people aware of its beauty and preciousness, you encourage them to blow themselves up for selfish reasons....when in fact Allah says..." a life saved is as if one has preserved mankind.."

Your cult is using "wrath to come" as a weapon with which to threaten and terrorize followers into pious acts and total obedience and where your scholars and clergy is the "omnipotent" master and man and the poor followers are ever in danger of incurring their wrath and this is then the basis of your own ethics and theology...in contradiction to real Islam !...

Religion that you try and portray is kind of based only on Fear and "terror"...fear is the parent of your own cruelty and thus it is no wonder that for your guys fear, cruelty and faith itself have gone hand in hand...

The faith of every man must be left to the conviction and conscious of such individuals and it is not the business of Mullahs and Clerics to interfere with the freedom of conscience and thought of people.

You cannot make people religious by force or enforce outward observance except at the cost of sincerity of belief by mandating false beliefs and cutting of entire generations from enlightenment and progress

Why do you guys forbid women to enter the Mosques for Friday prayers! If it is an open religion, why do you not educate your women, or allow them to work like Bibi Khadija did or even Bibi Ayesha who was one of the most educated women in her days and time !

Don't call yourselves Muslims, because you have spoiled the name of Islam by your ignorance of the faith and nobody knows whose tradition you are following .

Have you read this ayah of the prophet?..." Whoever Loves them (My descendants), loves God and whoever hates them, hates God.."......

Now it seems that you are defeated on other subjects....drinking is your last hope....here too I will shaft you...anything that does not impair or intoxicate, how can it be prohibited?

"SAY: who has forbidden the beautiful gifts of God which HE has produced for HIS servants....HE has provided for sustenance...SAY: they are in the life of this world for those who believe and purely for them on the day of Judgment..."

And so the colourful paradise too is NOT for disbelievers like you....it is for people like us to enjoy....you just stick to your impure ones here...lol !

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:01 am

002:079
YUSUFALI:

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

Now tell us why Umar compiled and then Uthman destroyed it and then Yazidis revised and re revised it for you and you are now calling it The Quran?

And you are barking about 'drinking"....is it okay to clean your rear side with your bare hands? or pee like a woman and smothering the bathroom and passing the flu to all ? is it okay to cheat Allah and HIS Prophet and deny their share and return of "amanat"?

Want more? Here, feast on it :

“Once Hazrat Jaabir (radi Allahu anhu) asked the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) whom Allah Ta'ala created before anything else. The Holy Prophet Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) stated: "O Jaabir! Verily, before the creation of anything else Almighty Allah created the Noor of your Nabi from His Noor." (Muwahibul Laduniya; Zirkani Shareef)”

If all human beings were truly conscious of their direct and unmediated
connection to Allah, then Allah would have revealed His Revelations to the
heart of every person and would not have appointed specific human beings
as His Prophets. Nevertheless, Allah did appoint single individuals as his Prophets and representatives by which He communicates to mankind at large.

Now, if it is established that in Allah's communication to man, He appoints
His Prophets as mediators, what other spiritual functions does the Prophet
perform in this respect? We only need to look to the Holy Quran to find
the answer...

We have sent among you a Messenger from you (minkum) who recites to you Our Signs and purifies you and teaches you the Book (al-Kitab) and the Wisdom ( al-Hikmat) and teaches you that which you did not know. - Holy Quran 2:151

(did you note that the Book has been referred to as long ago as Sura Baqara?...and so why did your Aboos create their own TEXTS?)

And when it is said to them, "Come, the Apostle of Allah will pray for
your forgiveness" , they turn aside their heads, and you will see them turning away their faces in arrogance.- Holy Quran 63:5

Of their wealth, take alms, that so you [Muhammad] might purify and
sanctify them; and send blessings (salloo) on them. Verily your prayers
(salat) are a source of peace for them: And God is One Who heareth and
knoweth. - Holy Quran 9:103

So now as you don't give to the prophet his share, isn't it fair to conclude that you are in a state of impurity?

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:02 am

@ Admin Im posting few firmans of MHI here on social habits....if you think its inappropriate then you can delete them

I dedicate this firman to sister zina khan

Kigoma, Tanzania Nov 8th 1966

On this visit to east africa, I have heard, I have been told that some spiritual children have taken up horrible habit of drinking alcohol and that not only some spiritual children have taken up this habit, but that some of them have become ALCOHOLICS. I warn my spiritual children whether he be SHIA or a SUNNI muslim, to be drunk is a sin against ISLAM. And I want this to be well understood.

Dar-es-salaam, Tanzania Nov 11th 1970

Often I have told my spiritual children that I want you to leave the field of commerce, export and import and not to spend you money openly and in this conncetion I want to return to a point which is important. If you have the ability to earn an income which is sufficient for a good standard of living, I do not want you to spend lavishly on alcohol, drinking or smoking. You may say that your imam is old fashioned . Iam not old fashioned. I simply want my jamat not to get disease and have good health. And you will be knowing what disasters these habits have done in Europe and USA and in the past muslim caliphates. I want you to remember this as it is a matter of importance. And I do not want to see these habits eventually harm my spiritual children. And I hope that each and everyone of you will stop it.

Sister zina.khan .....thats my way of saying "Shut Up"

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:09 am

We are not going to proceed to other topics unless and until you give us your stand or should I say your answer/belief/views/comments abour DRINKING in islam .......accept it you're a drunkard and so we shall proceed.

If drinking is ok why ? If not..why not ??
If selling is ok why ? If not....why not ??

simple !!!

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:01 am

You haven't proved as yet that drinking is haram ! the onus is upon you to prove...I have said that INTOXICATION is not the same as drinking ! If you do not understand then it is not my fault...There is always some alcohol in the body. The carbohydrates starch and sugar form alcohol when decomposed, so some alcohol enters the blood stream after every meal.....and now one can emagine the state of those who gobble chickens and goats as if they haven't seen food in their life...so much alchohol is already their naturally in their bodies...Intoxication is the acute state of physical and cognitive impairment and this is what is haram...

The prophet (pbuh) founded The Institution of Mosque as a center of activities for the Muslims.

They assemble there to celebrate God's Praise and to deliberate on issues facing the Islamic State and to find solutions in the light of Quran through mutual consultation.

Before the prohibition of intoxicants altogether was promulgated, it was atleast unbecoming that people should come to Mosque in a state of intoxication.

For adoration of God, it is only right that we should collect our whole mind and approach God in a spirit of reverence.

This condition was equally important for the healthy debates during mutual consultation on important State's Issues. So, Muslims were told not to attend Mosque in a state of intoxication or a dazed state of mind:

"Ya yuallazeena Amanoo la Taqrabu al-Salata wa untum Sukaara hatta T'alamu ma Toquloon...

O ye who believe! Approach not prayers (Mosque) with a mind befogged until ye can understand all that ye say---" (4:43)

[Shakir 4:43] O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath-- unless (you are) travelling on the road-- until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 4:43]

Sukara means the state of intoxication, or, according to Imam Muhammad bin Ali al-Baqir, slumber and sleepiness.

Junuban means the state of seminal pollution- after the emission of semen, either in waking or in sleep. ...do you do wudzoo accordingly? how does simply washing your hands and feet make you clean and pure?

Post by **Admin** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:08 am

Reminder: No personal disputes and no offensive words allowed on this Forum.

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:09 am

002.078
YUSUFALI: And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.

048.010
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who swear allegiance unto thee (Muhammad), swear allegiance only unto Allah. The Hand of Allah is above their hands. So whosoever breaketh his oath, breaketh it only to his soul's hurt; while whosoever keepeth his covenant with Allah, on him will He bestow immense reward.

060.012
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! When believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee, ..........then do thou receive their fealty, and pray to Allah for the forgiveness (of their sins): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Your cultures and customs are profoundly anti feminist...they contradict the Quran in what they do and mandate...they make felicitous claims that " he who touches the palm of a woman will have red hot embers put in the palm of his hand..."...

Now if YOU say it is your own custom or culture then so be it....but to make false claims that the Prophet (saw) had never touched the hand and falsely attribute a saying to the prophet is hyperbole !

The Quran shows that Allah (swt) had infact directed HIS Prophet (saw) to accept their fealty and the expression..."those who give you their allegiance, swear allegiance unto God and God's Hand is upon their hands..." ( so it is clear that the Prophet (saw) did keep his own hand as he was the YAD Allah of his time and age) on the hand of those (men and women) who gave bayah or allegiance...the ayats are clear......

I am apt to conclude that the hadith you guys talk of are not authentic and has no grounding in the Quran....It is YOUR own "chauvinism" that dictates this behaviour....lacks any "Islamic flavour" !!!

And if you are so particular about all this then I am just wondering why you are not even keeping your own women naked at home as there is also a hadith to this effect that they you so by your Aboo....

" impose nudity on women because clothes are one reason for leaving the house and she risks meeting another man and finding him attractive...etc etc..."

So Viru, do you keep yours in this state? if not why not?

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:14 am

The Holy firman is saying exactly what I am saying....to be drunk is to be in a state of Intoxication !!! I did say that is haram ! Intoxication....now additionally the Imam is cautioning that it is injurious to health and retains the potential for causing disease and he is right there too !!! He has called the silly habits....and ironically you are willing to swear by this farman to further your argument but unwilling to accept his firman on people going to the moon...shows hypocrisy at its best ! double talk and double standards !

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:21 pm

You haven't proved as yet that drinking is haram ! the onus is upon you to prove

Hahahahahaha.......I havent proved that drinking is a sin and hence it is haram ?? Ok lemme refresh your memory sister

O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed. [5:90]

I dedicate this firman to sister zina khan

Kigoma, Tanzania Nov 8th 1966

On this visit to east africa, I have heard, I have been told that some spiritual children have taken up horrible habit of drinking alcohol and that not only some spiritual children have taken up this habit, but that some of them have become ALCOHOLICS. I warn my spiritual children whether he be SHIA or a SUNNI muslim, to be drunk is a sin against ISLAM. And I want this to be well understood.

Ab Dikhaaaaaaaaaaa

...I have said that INTOXICATION is not the same as drinking ! If you do not understand then it is not my fault...There is always some alcohol in the body. The carbohydrates starch and sugar form alcohol when decomposed, so some alcohol enters the blood stream after every meal.....and now one can emagine the state of those who gobble chickens and goats as if they haven't seen food in their life...so much alchohol is already their naturally in their bodies...Intoxication is the acute state of physical and cognitive impairment and this is what is haram...

How many times do you want those who read your posts to make fun out of you ?? How many times ??

Al-Khamr as used in the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths means any material which causes intoxication. It comes from the Arabic word Yakhmur which means to cover or to curtail. Al-Khamr is so called because it covers or curtails the proper functioning of the mind. It is commonly used as a synonym of wine or alcoholic drinks because these were the only intoxicating material used by the Arabs at the time of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH).

You just you there were people[new converts] in the past who used to come to our rasool[saw] and tried to convince our rasool[saw] that they are using it only as a remedy for ailments and diseases....."A man called Tariq Al Joofi came to the Prophet (PBUH) and asked permission to consume liquor (alcohol), the Prophet refused. The man said: I use it and prescribe it as a medicine. The Prophet(pbuh) answered: 'It is a disease and ailment.'

Another a man called Tariq ibn Swaid Al Hadrami came to the Prophet (PBUH) and said: "O Messenger of God, In our land we have vineyards and we make wine and drink.

The Prophet (PBUH) said: "Stop drinking." The man proclaimed: We use it as a remedy for the sick. The Prophet said: "It's no remedy. It is an illness itself."

According to Islam, if too much of a drink causes drunkenness, then any small quantity of this drink is prohibited, because all alcoholics start with small quantities, then they become the slaves of alcohol. Following is a detailed study of some of the miscomseptions about the curative powers of alcohol and the many problems associated with alcohol consumption.

Islam prohibited all kinds of alcoholic drinks 1400 years ago. Islam did not wait for scientific research to prove the destructive effects of alcohol on human body and human mind. In Islam, the principle is simple, clear, and logical: prevention is better than cure. In other civilizations, alcoholic drinks are allowed and then problems occur. It is then that doctors, psychologists, and sociologists start trying to solve the problems caused by alcohol. Islam does not only prohibit drinking alcoholic drinks, but also prohibits making them. Islam also prohibits carrying, selling, or buying such drinks. According to Islam, if something is prohibited, all means to it are also prohibited. also according to Islam it is no use to forbid something and allow mean leading to it at thesame time. If alcoholic drinks are rohibited, all means to them are prohibited; Islam prohibits the making, transporting, importing, exporting, buying, and selling of such drinks. In Islam, alcohol is not allowed and problems are not given the chance to occur.

Remember Satan's Handiwork !!

Alcohol and the Stomach It was believed that alcoholic drinks function as appetizers, but this is against facts. Alcoholic drinks function as appetizers for the first week or month only, then soon the stomach and other parts of the digestive system become inflamed. Infections and ulcers begin to show up, vomiting starts, all appetite is lost.

The gastroscope shows that any small quantity of alcohol causes an inflammation in the inner membrane of the stomach. Some people believe that a little alcohol has no harm, but this is scientifically not true. Further, as we know, all alcoholics started with small quantities, then they found themselves chronic cases of alcoholism. A person who drinks occasionally may become an alcoholic under the pressure of any psychological shock or emotional problem or social crisis. This shows us the wisdom of Allah[swt] and Imams[as]; in Islam all alcoholic drinks are prohibited no matter how small the quantity is. Alcohol, if drunk repeatedly, causes stomach inflammations and the death of stomach cells. As a result, stomach acids decrease and result in bad digestion. Further, many microbes pass without being destroyed by the acid, which is destroyed by alcohol itself. The decrease of the stomach acid leads to a decrease in vitamin B 12 and causes severe anemia. This chronic inflammation of the stomach is accompanied with paleness, fast pulse, and heart failure. Further, this stomach inflammation may develop a probable ulcer, and then a probable stomach cancer. All these troubles are caused by alcohol.

Some people think that some alcoholic drinks are less dangerous than others. But the fact is that all alcoholic drinks are equally dangerous, because if the alcohol percentage is small in a drink, the glass of that drink is made large. This means that the quantity of alcohol is the same in each glass of drink. That is why Islam prohibits all types of drinks and prohibits drinking any small quantities. Islam prohibits the drinking of even a drop of any alcoholic drink, because problems always start this way; a small glass on a social occasion, thenanother glass on another social occasion, then eventually buying alcoholic drinks to consume at mealtime, then getting drunk, and then becoming an alcoholic with all his pains, his sufferings, his diseases, and problems he creates for his wife, children, and family.

What kind of life will a person lead if he has infections, inflammation, ulcers, and cancers everywhere in his body? Also, what kind of life is it when a person loses memory, loses appetite, loses mental abilities, and hashallucinations?

Islam has saved humanity from all this torture by guiding us to the right way. Because of our religion, Muslims know the right way from the wrong way and Allah has given us the mind with which we have to choose and bear responsibility. All thanks is due to Allah, who gave us the Holy Quran in which to follow and lead us on the right path of Islam.

The prophet (pbuh) founded The Institution of Mosque as a center of activities for the Muslims.

They assemble there to celebrate God's Praise and to deliberate on issues facing the Islamic State and to find solutions in the light of Quran through mutual consultation.

Agreed !!!

Before the prohibition of intoxicants altogether was promulgated, it was atleast unbecoming that people should come to Mosque in a state of intoxication.

For adoration of God, it is only right that we should collect our whole mind and approach God in a spirit of reverence.

True !...One should be able to focus and understand what he/she is saying and hence...if someone is drunk and comes to JK to perform salat....this so called person should be escorted out with respect because not only this person is an insult to allah[swt], imams[as] but also an insult to the whole congregation present at that time.

This condition was equally important for the healthy debates during mutual consultation on important State's Issues. So, Muslims were told not to attend Mosque in a state of intoxication or a dazed state of mind:

"Ya yuallazeena Amanoo la Taqrabu al-Salata wa untum Sukaara hatta T'alamu ma Toquloon...

O ye who believe! Approach not prayers (Mosque) with a mind befogged until ye can understand all that ye say---" (4:43)

[Shakir 4:43] O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath-- unless (you are) travelling on the road-- until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 4:43]

Yes you're right sister and I have to agree that you have raised one of the most important issues that we deal with today....Just because allah[swt] said is surah 4:43 " Do not go near prayer when you are drunk" ....immediately those who drink are super excited saying look allah[swt] is ok with drinking !!....They would say oh we drink only occassionally and that too not at the time of JK and even if we do then we dont come to khane in that condition and so on .....But allah[swt] is all wise !!....He knew that we humans are oversmart and so the merciful allah[swt] sent another aayat i.e surah 5:90 where he said :

5:90 O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, and Al-Ansâb[], and Al¬Azlâm (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitân's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful[].

Isnt allah[swt] all wise ??

Junuban means the state of seminal pollution- after the emission of semen, either in waking or in sleep. ...do you do wudzoo accordingly? how does simply washing your hands and feet make you clean and pure?

"Janabat" is a ritual impurity caused by the discharge of semen or by sexual intercourse; and the person on whom ghusl janabat becomes wajib is known as "junub". Holy Qur'an says:

O you who believe! Do not go near prayers (salat) when you are... junub until you have washed yourselves. (Surah Nisa 4:43)

O you who believe! When you stand up for prayers (salat), . . . if you are junub, then purify (yourselves). (Surah Maidah 5:6)

Discharge of semen does not make any difference whether this discharge is while awake or in a wet dream, slight or profuse, intentionally or otherwise. In all these cases one must clean his pee pee as mentioned in holy quran

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:30 pm

The Holy firman is saying exactly what I am saying....to be drunk is to be in a state of Intoxication !!! I did say that is haram ! Intoxication....now additionally the Imam is cautioning that it is injurious to health and retains the potential for causing disease and he is right there too !!! He has called the silly habits....and ironically you are willing to swear by this farman to further your argument but unwilling to accept his firman on people going to the moon...shows hypocrisy at its best ! double talk and double standards !

If only you said what imam said we wouldnt be having this debate right now sister.....you made your stand crystal clear when you said and I quote

Do you see that even in paradise chosen people like you have been promised YOUTHS and women with lustrous eyes to enjoy and that too with Goblets of Wine....and so what is then the basis to say Wine and SEX is haram when the promise of paradise for you is Virgins and Goblets of wine ? Kindly explain !

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:35 pm

and ironically you are willing to swear by this farman to further your argument but unwilling to accept his firman on people going to the moon...shows hypocrisy at its best ! double talk and double standards !

Hhehehehehehehehhe.......Actually now Iam convinced that imam do make mistakes in material life......Understand the word Material Life

At one stage he is right that one day insha allah by gods grace we shall travel not just to the moon but various galaxies but not in 40-50 years time span[as we have already surpassed it] but its gonna take us a little while to get mature and stop this unnecessary wars n crap

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:20 pm

056.019
YUSUFALI: No after-ache will they receive therefrom, nor will they suffer intoxication:

I think you are confused...the drink that will be served in your paradise will NOT be intoxicating and so as along as it does NOT intoxicate it is not haram...just the way your own body produces alchohol daily as you eat...and is created naturally is not haram...and so how could I have ever said that Intoxicants will be served? No ! it is your own imagination....so you agree that wine will be served with lustrous women who are voluptious and with big eyes and if that isn't good enough for you then there will be VIRGIN boys to defile...lol !

Actual Landings on the moon

6 manned landings on the Moon

Apollo's 11, 12, 14, 15, 16 and 17.

Missions to the moon
9 manned missions to the moon

Apollo's 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17.
This is assuming you only want to know the manned missions.

Now do not be so concerned about my name...because when I tried to register as Zinat, it would not allow me and so I just removed the "T"...in any case this world is not governed by arabic only...in other languages even Zina has a good meaning....but it is clear you are in hypocrisy....

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:48 pm

056.019
YUSUFALI: No after-ache will they receive therefrom, nor will they suffer intoxication:

I think you are confused because the drink that will be served in your paradise will NOT be intoxicating and so as along as it does NOT intoxicate it is not haram

U turn all of a sudden sister ?????

This is what you said and I quote

Do you know that this tradition of wine and sex continued under the Ummayyad rule? How come you are still waiting for "pure wives" in your paradise...are the ones you have here plus the concubines, not as pure?

...Oh wait !...you need more ?? ....Heres what you said :

If one drinks wine and then there is a Virgin in front of him, what other conclusion you want me to make? You are unable to explain....asking me to use my "akal"....that is what I am doing....if you have the ability then tie this up for us...or go and ask your mullah...

more ???

16:69 and 76:17-21 praises wine and promise you as your reward in paradise...5:90 seems to have been "abrogated" by these later ayats ...

16:69 and 76:17 does not even mention WINE

ROFL ROFL !!!! ......You want more ??

Quoting aayats which I have already quoted in my earlier posts will not help sister.....

........ So now when you see you're loosing, you wanna be miss goody pants eh ?? .....so stop changing tracks sister

I was the one who said the wine that is served in jannah will not be like the wine we get here.....I was the one who said the wine that the momins will drink in jannah is gonna be PUREST of all !!!

I know you wanna take some credit since you are at the loosing end, its ok you can.....as my imam ali[as] said : Forgiveness is the crown of great qualities

so you agree that wine will be served with lustrous women who are voluptious and with big eyes and if that isn't good enough for you then there will be VIRGIN boys to defile...lol !

Lets see..... Pure wine = agreed !! .......Lustrous Woman = Disagree as the term LUST is not mentioned in those verse

......But as long as I have my wife in jannah beside me , IM GOOD !!!! because my wife do have big beautiful eyes , lol

Virgin Boys to defile ?? .........Is this mentioned in holy quran sister? Can the very same allah[swt] who destroyed the people of H.Lut[as] who used to indulge themselves in HOMO stuff will allow this in jannah sister ???

BTW , I dont swing the other way....so thanks for the offer but NO THANKS !!!

Actual Landings on the moon

6 manned landings on the Moon

Apollo's 11, 12, 14, 15, 16 and 17.

Missions to the moon
9 manned missions to the moon

Apollo's 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17.
This is assuming you only want to know the manned missions.

Now do not be so concerned about my name...because when I tried to register as Zinat, it would not allow me and so I just removed the "T"...in any case this world is not governed by arabic only...in other languages even Zina has a good meaning....but it is clear you are in hypocrisy....

[/b]

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:55 pm

Actual Landings on the moon

6 manned landings on the Moon

Apollo's 11, 12, 14, 15, 16 and 17.

Missions to the moon
9 manned missions to the moon

Apollo's 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17.
This is assuming you only want to know the manned missions.

Hehehehehehe........You have to understand sister forget about 6 manned landings on the moon, IF...if at all the US govt[NASA] would have send their aircraft on the moon their would have been the race between various countries !!!

You know the funniest part is !!.....Until indian made CHANDRAYAAN went on the moon...people here in USA dint even know what sort of components are there on the moon

Grow up sister !!!!!

Now do not be so concerned about my name...because when I tried to register as Zinat, it would not allow me and so I just removed the "T"...in any case this world is not governed by arabic only...in other languages even Zina has a good meaning....but it is clear you are in hypocrisy....

I dont care what your name is or what you do....Im concerned about those unfortunate innocent ismailis who come to you with their doubts , hehehehehheheheheh .....vaat lag gayeli hai woh logo ki [They're doomed]

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:21 pm

Neil Armstrong

USAF / NASA Astronaut
Nationality American
Status Retired
Born August 5, 1930 (1930-08-05) (age 80)[1]
Wapakoneta, Ohio, U.S.
Previous occupation Naval aviator, test pilot
Time in space 8 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes and 31 seconds
Selection 1958 Man In Space Soonest
1960 Dyna-Soar
1962 NASA Group 2
Total EVAs 1
Total EVA time 2 hours 31 minutes
Missions Gemini 8, Apollo 11
Mission insignia
Neil Alden Armstrong (born August 5, 1930[1]) is an American aviator and former astronaut, test pilot, aerospace engineer, university professor, and United States Naval Aviator. He was the first person to set foot on the Moon.

Before becoming an astronaut, Armstrong was in the United States Navy and served in the Korean War. After the war, he served as a test pilot at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) High-Speed Flight Station, now known as the Dryden Flight Research Center, where he flew over 900 flights in a variety of aircraft. As a research pilot, Armstrong served as project pilot on the F-100 Super Sabre A and C variants, F-101 Voodoo, and the Lockheed F-104A Starfighter. He also flew the Bell X-1B, Bell X-5, North American X-15, F-105 Thunderchief, F-106 Delta Dart, B-47 Stratojet, KC-135 Stratotanker and Paresev. He graduated from Purdue University and the University of Southern California.

A participant in the U.S. Air Force's Man In Space Soonest and X-20 Dyna-Soar human spaceflight programs, Armstrong joined the NASA Astronaut Corps in 1962. His first spaceflight was the NASA Gemini 8 mission in 1966, for which he was the command pilot, becoming one of the first U.S. civilians to fly in space. On this mission, he performed the first manned docking of two spacecraft with pilot David Scott. Armstrong's second and last spaceflight was as mission commander of the Apollo 11 moon landing mission on July 20, 1969.

On this mission, Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin descended to the lunar surface and spent 2½ hours exploring while Michael Collins remained in orbit in the Command Module. For his spaceflights, Armstrong received the Congressional Space Medal of Honor.

So the prediction was not incorrect !!!

Please don't be so concerned....In hadith AL-THAQALYN, Prophet says,,,

" Verily I am leaving you TWO precious things, the Book of God and MY PROGENY....as long as you cling to these two, you will never go astray..."

Now when Aliyy brought the Book to the people they rejected it and the Caliphs compiled their own TEXTS...(ample evidence is in your own books).....and additionally they also rejected the Progeny even when the Quran clearly says that the blood relationship is stronger and thus superior as per Allah's Decree....the Ismailis were smart ...they held onto BOTH the TWO weighty things and so they are sitting inside the Noah's Ark...so don't be overly concerned about the Ismailis....

Unless you are able to obtain a favour from the primordial decree "hukm i mafrugh" and then from the subsequent decree..." hukm i musta'nif", there is NO act of submission "taslim" that is complete which is based on insight i.e. " basirat" and so there is no peace for such folks and no protector (Wali) and that is why we see so much turbulence all around those drifting aimlessly... and poor judgment plus hypocrisy...

When God gives the Command HE knows it since the return things go back to HIm from where they started...so as far as I can see the people of Talim are blessed and that is why you are so agitated...

The Prophet said:

" A slave of God is NOT a believer unless I am more beloved to him than his own soul and MY DESCENDANTS are more beloved to him than his own descendants and MY FAMILY is more beloved to him than his own family...."...

So tell me do you agree with your own Prophet or not?

Let me show you another ahadith of our beloved Nabi SAW...it is a Mutawatir ahadith related by companions, their followers and countless narrators down the ages, evidence thereof can be found in both Sunni and Sh'ia Books as over 100 companions have transmitted this...

HADITH AMAN UL UMMA:

The Prophet made it known that he saw his Ahl al Bayt as a source of UNITY and a means of distancing his Umma from divisiveness, saying..

" just as the stars are a means of securing (aman) the people of the earth from drowning, my Ahl al Bayt is a means of securing (aman) for my Umma from division......if a Tribe among the people opposes them, they fall into dispute and become part of Satan's Minnions..."

So do you accept this ahadith? and assuming I do use my Intellect and reasoning then what rational conclusion can I draw from this?

Now let us look at another MUTAWATIR ahadith which has been narrated by about 110 companions from which 89 were from succeeding generations , including their followers and I can quote as many Sunni references as one may want....

HADITH AL-THAQALYN:

In this hadith the Nabi SAW is preaching to the Umma...

"VERILY I am leaving with you two precious things, the Book of God and MY Progeny, my Ahl al Bayt....for as long as you cling to these two, you will NEVER go astray....and TRULY they will NOT be parted from each other until they join me at the "Hawd" of paradise (al Kawthar)..."

So do you accept this ahadith?

Okay , now lets look at HADITH AL SAFINA:

The Prophet in this ahadith has likened his Ahl al Bayt to Noah's Ark saying:...

" is not the likeness of my ahl al bayt among you like the ark of Noah among his folks? whoever takes refuge therein is SAVED and whoever opposes it is DROWNED.....we know that Noah's Ark was the sole place of refuge for people seeking to save themselves from the deluge.....

And so according to what the beloved Nabi said...

" the Ahl al Bayt of the Prophet i.e. his pure progeny is the SOLE REFUGE for those SEEKING protection against the TENEBROUS phenomena i.e. sources of delusion and confusion that confronts humanity..."

Do you also reject this hadith?

Then please read additionally HADITH AL MANZILA and what 'spiritual rank" he gave to the Imam and then if you read HADITH YAWM AL DAR....

The message Allah had given to the Nabi to deliver to the people..

"what has been revealed to you from your Lord"....the Prophet had delivered privately to his own family and tribe during this "Feast of the family"...at Khum e Ghadir he was told to deliver it to the people now...that is why there was no message attached with the relevant ayah as the prophet had already received the message earlier on..." And warn thy tribe of near kindred..." (Sura al Sh'uara).....

Then the Prophet (may peace be on him) said:

" Whoever Loves them (My descendants), loves God and whoever hates them, hates God.."......

"Say: I ask of you no reward for this, save loving kindness to my kinsfolk..." (Holy Quran)

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:34 pm

Now did I say this on my own accord or did I show you what the quranic ayats are showing?

You are assuming that drinks are necessarily INTOXICATING....then how come the alchohol inside your own body is not intoxicating? or is it ? then all of you are permanently "drunkards"...so make up your mind...

I have shown you what the ayats are saying....they are clearly saying you will have pure women who will be voluptious and with lustrous big eyes....OR Virgin youths ....and with Goblets of wine....and yet you will not be intoxicated...so you explain what this all implies ESOTERICALLY now....and if you can't then please stop wasting my time....

INTOXICATION is haram.....you are claiming drinks are haram...quran is talking about Intoxicants and you are twisting it !! I have also shown what is meant by Intoxicants....you are making frivolous arguments...

076.019
YUSUFALI: And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness): If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls.
.

076.020
YUSUFALI: And when thou lookest, it is there thou wilt see a Bliss and a Realm Magnificent.

076.017
YUSUFALI: And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine)

056.019
YUSUFALI: No after-ache will they receive therefrom, nor will they suffer intoxication:

056.021
YUSUFALI: And the flesh of fowls, any that they may desire.

056.022
YUSUFALI: And (there will be) Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes
PICKTHAL: And (there are) fair ones with wide, lovely eyes,
SHAKIR: And pure, beautiful ones

So what will be your choice? just wondering !

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:25 am

USAF / NASA Astronaut
Nationality American
Status Retired
Born August 5, 1930 (1930-08-05) (age 80)[1]
Wapakoneta, Ohio, U.S.
Previous occupation Naval aviator, test pilot
Time in space 8 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes and 31 seconds
Selection 1958 Man In Space Soonest
1960 Dyna-Soar
1962 NASA Group 2
Total EVAs 1
Total EVA time 2 hours 31 minutes
Missions Gemini 8, Apollo 11
Mission insignia
Neil Alden Armstrong (born August 5, 1930[1]) is an American aviator and former astronaut, test pilot, aerospace engineer, university professor, and United States Naval Aviator. He was the first person to set foot on the Moon.

Before becoming an astronaut, Armstrong was in the United States Navy and served in the Korean War. After the war, he served as a test pilot at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) High-Speed Flight Station, now known as the Dryden Flight Research Center, where he flew over 900 flights in a variety of aircraft. As a research pilot, Armstrong served as project pilot on the F-100 Super Sabre A and C variants, F-101 Voodoo, and the Lockheed F-104A Starfighter. He also flew the Bell X-1B, Bell X-5, North American X-15, F-105 Thunderchief, F-106 Delta Dart, B-47 Stratojet, KC-135 Stratotanker and Paresev. He graduated from Purdue University and the University of Southern California.

A participant in the U.S. Air Force's Man In Space Soonest and X-20 Dyna-Soar human spaceflight programs, Armstrong joined the NASA Astronaut Corps in 1962. His first spaceflight was the NASA Gemini 8 mission in 1966, for which he was the command pilot, becoming one of the first U.S. civilians to fly in space. On this mission, he performed the first manned docking of two spacecraft with pilot David Scott. Armstrong's second and last spaceflight was as mission commander of the Apollo 11 moon landing mission on July 20, 1969.

On this mission, Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin descended to the lunar surface and spent 2½ hours exploring while Michael Collins remained in orbit in the Command Module. For his spaceflights, Armstrong received the Congressional Space Medal of Honor.

So the prediction was not incorrect !!!

My dearest sister....you have sooooo much to learn about science and the conspiracies of this great nation .

Copy/Pasting is your job I know....its ok !!....But dont just try to over do things which I told you last time....It reveals your stupidity and ignorance on subjects of which you are not even aware of !!

Ill give you a hint....if you have time which I know you do !...Google the capsule that was used on landing on the moon...ok ?? Once you do that try to zoom on the leg of that capsule...what will you see ?? You will see that its leg is covered with a bunch of aluminium foils that we get at walmart

And once you're done checking that....try to look at the base of the capsule and please try to locate the THRUST....thrust is important for a take off...kindly do this two things for me ...ok ??

You have touched one of my moooooooost loved subjects that is "science"

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:29 am

USAF / NASA Astronaut
Nationality American
Status Retired
Born August 5, 1930 (1930-08-05) (age 80)[1]
Wapakoneta, Ohio, U.S.
Previous occupation Naval aviator, test pilot
Time in space 8 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes and 31 seconds
Selection 1958 Man In Space Soonest
1960 Dyna-Soar
1962 NASA Group 2
Total EVAs 1
Total EVA time 2 hours 31 minutes
Missions Gemini 8, Apollo 11
Mission insignia
Neil Alden Armstrong (born August 5, 1930[1]) is an American aviator and former astronaut, test pilot, aerospace engineer, university professor, and United States Naval Aviator. He was the first person to set foot on the Moon.

Before becoming an astronaut, Armstrong was in the United States Navy and served in the Korean War. After the war, he served as a test pilot at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) High-Speed Flight Station, now known as the Dryden Flight Research Center, where he flew over 900 flights in a variety of aircraft. As a research pilot, Armstrong served as project pilot on the F-100 Super Sabre A and C variants, F-101 Voodoo, and the Lockheed F-104A Starfighter. He also flew the Bell X-1B, Bell X-5, North American X-15, F-105 Thunderchief, F-106 Delta Dart, B-47 Stratojet, KC-135 Stratotanker and Paresev. He graduated from Purdue University and the University of Southern California.

A participant in the U.S. Air Force's Man In Space Soonest and X-20 Dyna-Soar human spaceflight programs, Armstrong joined the NASA Astronaut Corps in 1962. His first spaceflight was the NASA Gemini 8 mission in 1966, for which he was the command pilot, becoming one of the first U.S. civilians to fly in space. On this mission, he performed the first manned docking of two spacecraft with pilot David Scott. Armstrong's second and last spaceflight was as mission commander of the Apollo 11 moon landing mission on July 20, 1969.

On this mission, Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin descended to the lunar surface and spent 2½ hours exploring while Michael Collins remained in orbit in the Command Module. For his spaceflights, Armstrong received the Congressional Space Medal of Honor.

So the prediction was not incorrect !!!

My dearest sister....you have sooooo much to learn about science and the conspiracies of this great nation .

Copy/Pasting is your job I know....its ok !!....But dont just try to over do things which I told you last time....It reveals your stupidity and ignorance on subjects of which you are not even aware of !!

Ill give you a hint....if you have time which I know you do !...Google the capsule that was used on 1st landing on the moon...ok ?? Once you do that try to zoom on the leg of that capsule...what will you see ?? You will see that its leg is covered with a bunch of aluminium foils that we get at walmart

And once you're done checking that....try to look at the base of the capsule and please try to locate the THRUST....thrust is important for a take off...kindly do this two things for me ...ok ??

You have touched one of my moooooooost loved subjects that is "science"

pst pst !!!....Did you know that the scientists at NASA dint even knew whether there was water on earth or not until 2008-09....It was chandrayaan that pinpointed an exact location of water to be found on moon

Not just water sister....It even pointed our the mass, what it is made up of....whether humans can survive on the moon or not....Unfortunately no human can survive on the moon for the gravitational pull on the moon will crush your bones ....not only this chandrayaan also found helium on the moon that can power/light the whole world for thousands if not millions of years

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:01 am

Now did I say this on my own accord or did I show you what the quranic ayats are showing?

Lemme give my brothers and sisters who are reading your posts a quick info about what you do :

1] Infest innocent ismailis with your idiotic interpretation of holy quran
2] Press on those who argue with you to get tempted and commit adultry, become a drunkard, eat pork and so on
3] Quote the holy quranic aayats...but misinterpret it like you did in the past
4] When everything fails.....get that innocent look on your face and do a BIIIIIIG U turn from what you have been saying
5] And when even that trick fails , Blame it on holy quran and allah[swt]

.....Nice , very nice....you made us proud sister

You are assuming that drinks are necessarily INTOXICATING....then how come the alchohol inside your own body is not intoxicating? or is it ? then all of you are permanently "drunkards"...so make up your mind...

What I said is:

1] Any drink that has even little percentage of alcohol is forbidden in islam
2] The drink that allah[swt] is mentioning in holy quran is not intoxic
3] The wine that allah[swt] is referring to is the PUREST OF ALL !!
4] I showed from the very same quran that the drink that will be seved in jannah will not intoxicate momins

And now you have come up with another childish arguement that, we humans have alcohol in our body.....just like you said last time that If I gulp on grapes Ill get drunk , hehehehehehe

Lemme help you with this sister , ethyl alcohol is present in fruits and vegetables naturally. As fruit and vegetables ripen, certain amounts of ethyl alcohol appears during fermentation as by-products. Most of the natural aromas used in the food and drink industry, ethyl alcohol that has formed naturally is present. In the food regulations all over the world, the existence of certain amounts of ethyl alcohol is regarded as natural.

Ill stop here and I would ask you one simple question....... Does wine/beer grow naturally ??

It is He Who produceth gardens, with trellises and without, and dates, and tilth with produce of all kinds, and olives and pomegranates, similar (in kind) and different (in variety): eat of their fruit in their season, but render the dues that are proper on the day that the harvest is gathered. But waste not by excess: for Allah loveth not the wasters. (Qur'an 6:141)

I want you to pay special attention to the verse " eat of their fruit in their season" ....what does this mean sister ??

I have shown you what the ayats are saying....they are clearly saying you will have pure women who will be voluptious and with lustrous big eyes....OR Virgin youths ....and with Goblets of wine....and yet you will not be intoxicated...so you explain what this all implies ESOTERICALLY now....and if you can't then please stop wasting my time....

Yes you did....but unfortunately as theirs a saying "Lakeer ka Fakeer"....you copy/paste aayat without even double checking to see whether the aayat is actually talking about things as you have mentioned or not !!

Did you forget already When I said " For a man its gonna be a woman with big beautiful white eyes [NOT LUSTROUS

]...and for the woman its gonna be the man with big beautiful eyes .....Now I know that you dont even read my posts , lol

INTOXICATION is haram.....you are claiming drinks are haram...quran is talking about Intoxicants and you are twisting it !! I have also shown what is meant by Intoxicants....you are making frivolous arguments...

Yawns !!!......If you are having trouble with my tooti footi english ...see habla espaniol ???:D

I said and I repeat any drink that has alcohol even in small amount is haram !!.....Whether it intoxicates you or not is another question...what god in quran sister ?? Stay away from strong drink as its satans handiwork......what did our imam said sister ?? Drinking is a sin in ISLAM

Stop fooling and tempting people to drink chota[small] peg as it might be halal for you.....But its halal for any devout ismaili as it goes against the commands of allah[swt] and imams[as]

076.019
YUSUFALI: And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness): If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls.
.

Lets educate those who are viewing this 1st...sister zina.khan misinterpreted the verse FRESH/FRESHNESS = VIRGIN earlier in this same post and I quote

OR Virgin youths

....Brothers and sisters...the actual verse goes like this

76:19 There, serve them youths of ever lasting youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls.

76:19 And there shall go round Unto them youths ever-young. When thou seest them thou wouldst deem them pearls unstrung.

076.020
YUSUFALI: And when thou lookest, it is there thou wilt see a Bliss and a Realm Magnificent.

76:20 When thou seest, thou wilt see there bliss and high estate.

076.017 YUSUFALI: And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine)

Having said the meaning of the term "Zanjabil" = Ginger , you still wanna brainwash innocent ismailis ??

this is the actual translation in english my Yusuf Ali

76:17 And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine) mixed with Zanjabil

And Just because yusuf ali mentioned wine in the brackets sister zina.khan is confident that allah[swt] will serve the earth like wine there in jannah....If we read the correct translation of pickthall he translates this verse as :

76:17 There are they watered with a cup whereof the mixture is of Zanjabil,

Abdul Daryabadi translates this verse as

76:17 And therein they shall be given to drink of a cup whereof the admixture will be ginger.

Dr Mohsin

76:17 And they will be given to drink there of a cup mixed with Zanjabîl (ginger).

as always after verse 76:17-20 sister zina khan stopped because in verse 21 allah[swt] clarifies what kind of drink will be served...

76:21 Their raiment will be fine green silk and gold embroidery. Bracelets of silver will they wear. Their Lord will slake their thirst with a pure drink

056.019
YUSUFALI: No after-ache will they receive therefrom, nor will they suffer intoxication:

Sister is toooo quick to wash her hands off the mess that she has gotten into....once again a pro-alcoholic turn into anti alcoholic after reading this salat....hehehehe

Here's the whole verse properly translated :

56:12-24 In gardens of delight; A multitude of those of old And a few of those of later time. On lined couches, Reclining therein face to face. There wait on them immortal youths With bowls and ewers and a cup from a pure spring Wherefrom they get no aching of the head nor any madness, And fruit that they prefer, And flesh of fowls that they desire. And (there are) fair ones with wide, lovely eyes, Like unto hidden pearls, Reward for what they used to do.

So what will be your choice? just wondering !

My choice is my choice....you dont have to worry about that....Be concerned about those who come to you seeking help....not only do you brainwash them by insisting them to drink but to make sure that they are not intoxicated...you also promote adultry and other sinful acts.

Get well soon sister

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:09 am

Stop fooling and tempting people to drink chota[small] peg as it might be halal for you.....But its halal for any devout ismaili as it goes against the commands of allah[swt] and imams[as]

Sorry I mean to say haram for any devout ismaili

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:29 am

Your boastfulness makes me laugh....but quite understandable as this is the hallmark of empty vessels....

Now the ayats that talk of such enchanting paradise, seems to be male oriented ....voluptious women with big lustrous eyes...with goblets of wine...a drink pure and holy....(and so is wine pure and holy) ? Is that what you are saying? Atleast tell us what is then the paradise for women who go to heaven in your cult? They too get voluptious women?

I am merely asking clarifying questions....Islam forbids us to accept anything blindly....even the quran says ..."reflect and ponder"? I find certain disparity and frivolity in your arguments plus undue boastfulness and arrogance typical of a "good" muslim....so will the women also drin the wine and be given voluptious women?

It seems you are talking from both ends of your mouth....if wine is haram then why would you say it is holy? there is simply no logic in your assertions...prohibition is as much of a farce in many muslim countries as it may be elsewhere...alchohol trickles in well to do muslim homes and they have whiskey served in metal tumblars or in tea pots and they sip this from china cups...and they down it gleefully as it tastes of sin...

Tell me would you make the girls hockey team wear the burqa whilst playing? Muslim men are drinking heavily....the beam is in your own eyes...you cannot point a mote in someone else's eyes unless first you show sincerity, honesty and clean the filth in your own backyards....many bourgeoise in your cult have their favourite bootleggers...

Even in Saudi there is such hypocrisy..there the favourite whisky is Johnny Walker Black label...lest you are unaware..and the princes who drink whiskey at night would send a man to prison for drinking in the morning...

Ayat 16:69 simply praises wine...makes no distinctions about levels of its alchoholic content...the arabs of the early Islamic days found it very difficult to embrace Islam because of their love for sex and wine...for them these two were delicious...and most of you are still practicing medieval Islam and still living in the past, it seems the paradise of yours also seems to be full of the joys of wine and women "al atyaban" and poetry referencing wine shops and taverns....and so the praise of wine and women and sex have remained an integral part of muslim poetry for centuries now.....do you think the scribes fixed the words to boast such a practice....after all they compiled the TEXTS out of disobedience to Allah's prophet and Amir ul Momeeneen !

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:38 am

Who has landed on the moon?
I need to know how many men landed actually on Moon, and identifying them also.

All in all, 12 American men have landed on the moon in the period between 1969 and 1972. 12 additional American men have orbited the Moon. Their names and respective missions are:

Apollo 8 (orbiter): Frank Borman, James Lovell, Jr., William Anders.

Apollo 10 (orbiter): Eugene Cernan, John Young, Thomas Stafford.

Apollo 11: Neil A. Armstrong, Michael Collins (orbiter only), Edwin E. Aldrin, Jr.

Apollo 12: Charles Conrad, Jr., Richard F. Gordon (orbiter only), Alan L. Bean

Apollo 14: Alan B. Shepard, Jr., Stuart A. Roosa (orbiter only), Edgar D. Mitchell

Apollo 15: David R. Scott, Alfred M. Worden (orbiter only), James B. Irwin

Apollo 16: James W. Young, Thomas K. Mattingly II (orbiter only), Charles M. Duke, Jr.

Apollo 17: Eugene A. Cernan, Ronald E. Evans (orbiter only), Harrison H. Schmitt

All this information as well as information about other missions to the moon can be found easily....whether I copy paste or not is again irrelevant....

Did astronauts really go to the Moon, or is it a hoax?

I've seen a segment on the news on how some people are believing the idea that we (U.S.) were never on the moon.

Stating, pictures and video can be proven wrong by analyzers and scientists. What do you think or know about what's behind this dilemma?

Most scientists are surprised and appalled when they hear about this whole "Moon Hoax" notion.

The idea seems to be spread by a few cranks and conspiracy theorists who (like most conspiracy theorists) have fixed on a strange idea and will not be convinced by any argument or any amount of evidence that they are wrong.

And they sure don't mind making some money off of books, videos and television programs that claim we never went to the Moon.

To anyone who works in the field of planetary science, it is quite obvious that the Apollo astronauts did indeed walk on the Moon.

We have rocks and soil samples from the Moon that have been analyzed by several independent laboratories--including labs in the former Soviet Union!

It is unlikely that they were all tricked or bribed or threatened into silence.

We have many images taken by the astronauts that have been analyzed and re-analyzed for their scientific content.

If it's so obvious that these photos are faked, could all the scientists who examined these photographs be in on the conspiracy, or dupes of it?

Many people were exposed to the "moon hoax" idea when the Fox television network aired a program titled, "Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon?" that presented the "moon hoax" very sympathetically, and did not offer scientists much time to refute the conspiracy theorist's claims.

Scientists are very upset about this program.

It had a lot of scientific errors in it, of course, and because the program focused on the conspiracy theorist's point of view, the audience didn't get to hear the scientific explanations, so it seems to have convinced a lot of people, and caused a lot more to be doubtful.

The program also implied that many, many scientists are either in on the conspiracy (that is, they were lying to their colleagues and the public, the opposite of what a good scientist does!), or have been tricked by it (that is, they were too stupid to tell an Arizona sound stage from the surface of the Moon!)

But the most shocking and awful thing about the program was that it suggested that, to prevent an astronaut from talking to the press about the "hoax," NASA deliberately set the fire in the Apollo 1 capsule that killed three American astronauts: Roger Chaffee, Ed White, and Gus Grissom.

This is a very upsetting accusation.

The NASA engineers, astronauts and scientists working on the Apollo program were America's finest, all dedicated to the goal set by John F. Kennedy: "I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before the decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to Earth."

For the people who worked on the Apollo program, the safety and success of the mission were of the greatest importance, and Apollo 1 was a tragedy, a terrible accident that weighs on the soul of everyone who was connected to it.

To suggest that it was intentional is beneath contempt, and does a terrible disservice to the brave astronauts who died.

Now let the intelligent people on this forum judge for themselves and do their own research....as far as I believe your theory is false and has been called a 'conspiracy"

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 am

The rebellion and the insurgency against the caliph of islam, is on record notwithstanding any coercion or how Aliyy handled the matter or treated her - it does not alter the reality...right?...now let us examine what is "righteousness" ?...

The act or conduct of one who is righteous. Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.The state of being right with God; justification; the work which is the ground of justification which consisteth of faith, hope, and charity, and other virtues..

Now lets see what "devout" means..." Devoted to religion or to the fulfillment of religious obligations.."

033.031
YUSUFALI: But any of you that is devout in the service of Allah and His Messenger, and works righteousness,- to her shall We grant her reward twice: and We have prepared for her a generous Sustenance.

Now read these ayats and see the reprimand issued to the consorts...so isn't certain things clear here? and also that those with BLOOD RELATIONSHIP and KINSHIP have stronger personal ties ?

033.028
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! Say to thy Consorts: "If it be that ye desire the life of this World, and its glitter,- then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner.

(What is the threat hereinabove?)

033.029
YUSUFALI: But if ye seek Allah and His Messenger, and the Home of the Hereafter, verily Allah has prepared for the well-doers amongst you a great reward.

(What is the promise made if they seek Allah and HIS Messenger?)

033.034
YUSUFALI: And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom: for Allah understands the finest mysteries and is well-acquainted (with them).

Remember SIGNS is plural !

"Verily WE have shown him the way whether he be grateful or Disbelieving" !

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:03 am

Lets then review once again the evidence...delusional grandeur and self denial is not the solution....it is in black and white !

56:18
YUSUFALI: With goblets, (shining) beakers, and cups (filled) out of clear-flowing fountains:

076.017
YUSUFALI: And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine) mixed with Zanjabil,-

047.015
YUSUFALI: (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink;... In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared .....

PICKTHAL: A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers ....rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers,... therein for them is every kind of fruit, with pardon from their Lord. .....

076.005
YUSUFALI: As to the Righteous, they shall drink of a Cup of Wine mixed with Kafur,-

076.006
YUSUFALI: A Fountain where the Devotees of Allah do drink, making it flow in unstinted abundance.

078.031
YUSUFALI: Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfilment of (the heart's) desires;

078.032
YUSUFALI: Gardens enclosed, and grapevines;
PICKTHAL: Gardens enclosed and vineyards,
SHAKIR: Gardens and vineyards,

078.033
YUSUFALI: And voluptuous women of equal age;

078.034
YUSUFALI: And a cup full (to the brim).

056.019
YUSUFALI: No after-ache will they receive therefrom, nor will they suffer intoxication:

056.021
YUSUFALI: And the flesh of fowls, any that they may desire.
.

056.022
YUSUFALI: And (there will be) Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes,-

056.023
YUSUFALI: Like unto Pearls well-guarded.

056.024
YUSUFALI: A Reward for the deeds of their past (life).

056.017
YUSUFALI: Round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness),

056.016
YUSUFALI: Reclining on them, facing each other.