Ibaadat/Bandagi Concentration

[faisall667]

I would like to know how one concentrates in bandagi? Many years back people used to concentrate on their breath, but I have heard that Hazir Imam doesn't want his spritual children to do so. So can someone tell if that is true. Also, in one of the ginans I read it said a good concentration area is between ur eyebrows...but I have also heard that it is upto the Imam when he wants you to concentrate, ur or my job is only to try and sit in bandagi. Can one give me more information on this.

Thank you

Faisal

P.S this is the same question in the doctrine, but nobody was answering me there so i am posting this here again.
Please give your answer in detail, if there is some sensitive info. then please PM me.

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Man, I enjoy this website!!!

[kmaherali]

You will be answered. Be patient…

I would say concentrate on the Isme Azam if you have it; else remember any word of Allah, Ali, Muhammad or any exalted name. If you persevere then an appropriate method four your own soul will come about.

Meditation or Baitul Khayal(BUK) is only an aspect of Ibadaat. It is not compulsory upon every spiritual child to enroll in Baitul Khayal. In my opinion because of the diversity of the Jamat it would be difficult for the Imam to prescribe a method of concentration. As a matter of fact he does not give BOL to all the jamats. In my opinion Baitul Khayal is an extra practice to purify your soul. Real Ibaadat is Farmanbardari. BUK is only a means to it and not an end in itself. Some murids find happiness in obedience to his Farmans and therefore do not feel the need for BUK.

Success in BUK is not dependant upon a particular method but rather upon grace which is influenced by several factors; amongst them are regularity of Dasond, amal (good deeds) and acquisition of knowledge.

[mariahussain]

can any one tell me how to obtain Isme Aazam

[kmaherali]

can any one tell me how to obtain Isme Aazam

YAM,
Only MHI gives Isme Azam. You will have to wait for an occasion when he gives it. However BOL is not absolutely necessary. Ismailis in other parts of the world have enjoyed Batuni Deedar without any physical contact with the Imam. Practice of BOL is just one aspect of our Ibaadat. You can continue remembrance on any exalted name.

There has been extensive discussion on this at: Baitul Khayal - Bandagi without Bol? in this forum. You may want to go there.

[mariahussain]

Thank you Kmaherali for your time and generosity .<BR><BR>the o&shy;nly o&shy;ne who always answers my questions is you thank you again<BR><BR>in your answer regards my question you wrote I have to wait for an<BR><BR>occation until MHI give me Isme- Aazam . I did not get it what kind of<BR><BR>occation ? if you do not mind make it a little bit more clear.<BR><BR>As I my self have never been in a Baitul- Khayal Majlis, do not get me<BR><BR>wrong I am Ismaili, but the country in which I grew up women were<BR><BR>not allowed to attend Jamat khana ceremonies,but they could perform<BR><BR>thier dua at home. People have not had MHI Zahiri deedar for like <BR><BR>hundreds of years. so mostly people do not know much about Ismaili ceremonies.

[kmaherali]

Thank you Kmaherali for your time and generosity .the only one who always answers my questions is you thank you again in your answer regards my question you wrote I have to wait for an occation until MHI give me Isme- Aazam . I did not get it what kind of occation ? if you do not mind make it a little bit more clear. As I my self have never been in a Baitul- Khayal Majlis, do not get me wrong I am Ismaili, but the country in which I grew up women were not allowed to attend Jamat khana ceremonies,but they could perform thier dua at home. People have not had MHI Zahiri deedar for like hundreds of years. so mostly people do not know much about Ismaili ceremonies.

You are welcome! Where were you brought up? It seems that it must have been a non khoja Ismaili Jamat. As MHI has indicated in many of his recent Farmans there is diversity in our Jamat and different segments of this diversity have evolved different traditions over their respective histories. If baitul Khayal was not part of your tradition than you need not worry about it. It is perhaps not applicable to your background.

Having said the above, you must realize that those who have isme azam are not privileged or superior. On the contrary, they are probably the weaker Jamats from the spiritual point of view. The khoja Ismailis became more materialistic and as a result the Imams have instituted various mandlis (mijalas) for them to purify them from excess materialism. In my opinion you should not worry about Isme Azam if you have not been brought up in a khoja tradition. You should carry on with your normal practice of Dua, dasond etc.

[nagib]

I have to wait for an<BR><BR>occation until MHI give me Isme- Aazam . I did not get it what kind of<BR><BR>occation ?

YAM,

WHen Imam comes for Didar, sometimes he accept to see the Murids of Baitul Khayal who ask for Bol [isme-azam] . These are opportunities for most of us to get the ismae-azam. I gess He also gives to few chosen people the isme-azam outside those formal gathering. Maybe also during meditation in a non-physical way...

Nagib
===============

[farzanalalani]

ya ali madad faizal<BR>i think u r work should b 2 do ibadat thats it n if u continue doin it regularly than u will&nbsp; feel that mowla bapa will increase u r concentration its o&shy;n u r faith n love u have for u r imam so keep o&shy;n practicing thats the most important thing

[Irfan_Kadiwal]

can any one tell me how to obtain Isme Aazam

YAM,
However BOL is not absolutely necessary. Ismailis in other parts of the world have enjoyed Batuni Deedar without any physical contact with the Imam. Practice of BOL is just one aspect of our Ibaadat.
There has been extensive discussion on this at: Baitul Khayal - Bandagi without Bol? in this forum. You may want to go there.

I would like to comment upon the above quote of Mr kmahaerali.
BOL is not necessary but its very IMPORTANT.
It goes like this we have a link between MURID and MOWLA BAPA.
The BOL is the link to reach MOWLA BAPA.
By reaching i mean Nooranee Deedar.
If one does Bandagi without BOL then that link tends to be LONGER.
BOL is a shorter LINK given by Imam - e - Zaman.
Also Mowla revises the BOL in certain cases.
But ultimately it depends on Mowla when he will bless you with his deedar.
BOL has a GREAT significance in us.Its not JUST one aspect its IMPORTANT aspect provided one practices it regularly..

[rizu9]

can any o&shy;ne tell me how to obtain Isme Aazam

<BR><BR><BR>Maria if i am not mistaking you can talk to the mukhi sahib of your jamatkhana they can make some arrangment with tarika board and some time hazar imam gives the bol through some Al-waez or missionari but again i am not 100% sure but you can give it a try there is no&nbsp; harm.....secondly if you know to read gujarati there is a book called MARFAT NA PHOOL.<BR>written by ismaili which very well explain how to concentrate in bandgi how to sit in bandgi...<BR>its a very very good book but i dont know wherter they have english or other translation of that book......ya ali madad

[ShamsB]

You will be answered. Be patient…

I would say concentrate on the Isme Azam if you have it; else remember any word of Allah, Ali, Muhammad or any exalted name. If you persevere then an appropriate method four your own soul will come about.

Meditation or Baitul Khayal(BUK) is only an aspect of Ibadaat. It is not compulsory upon every spiritual child to enroll in Baitul Khayal. In my opinion because of the diversity of the Jamat it would be difficult for the Imam to prescribe a method of concentration. As a matter of fact he does not give BOL to all the jamats. In my opinion Baitul Khayal is an extra practice to purify your soul. Real Ibaadat is Farmanbardari. BUK is only a means to it and not an end in itself. Some murids find happiness in obedience to his Farmans and therefore do not feel the need for BUK.

Success in BUK is not dependant upon a particular method but rather upon grace which is influenced by several factors; amongst them are regularity of Dasond, amal (good deeds) and acquisition of knowledge.

Karim,

I and I am sure there are others that would beg to differ when it comes to doing bandagi. Without Bandagi, there is no salvation.

I refer you to the farman of Maputo where Hazar Imam speaks of the search for INDIVIDUAL ENLIGHTENMENT.....

"The second essential issue is the practice of the faith, because the practice of the faith, regularity of prayer, the individual search for enlightenment, are part of our tradition, but also a reality of life, in the sense that - I have no doubt that - if you practise your faith, you will fulfill this individual search for enlightenment, you will find happiness, stability, confidence, and you will be able to face the problems that you may have to encounter. "


Shams

[kmaherali]

I refer you to the farman of Maputo where Hazar Imam speaks of the search for INDIVIDUAL ENLIGHTENMENT.....

"The second essential issue is the practice of the faith, because the practice of the faith, regularity of prayer, the individual search for enlightenment, are part of our tradition, but also a reality of life, in the sense that - I have no doubt that - if you practise your faith, you will fulfill this individual search for enlightenment, you will find happiness, stability, confidence, and you will be able to face the problems that you may have to encounter. "

Shams

Shams,

Bandagi (BUK) is only one facet of the search, there are other facets of the search. As the Imam tells us in his Farman above, by practising your faith you are engaging in the search and the practice is all encompassing -it is not about Bandagi only. Bandagi without amal becomes pride and hence we have to view the totality of life and not just one facet. Search involves seeking knowledge, Dasond, Dua and Farmanbardari and Bandagi is an aspect of Farmanbardari if you have taken BOL.

MSMS refers to the Iranian Jamats as those who are constantly having his Batini Deedar even without BUK. The key is purity and Bandagi (BUK) is a means towards that purity but not the only one.

Also we should not that MSMS instructed Bhagat Kara Ruda to stop Bandagi because it had served its purpose.

[ShamsB]

I refer you to the farman of Maputo where Hazar Imam speaks of the search for INDIVIDUAL ENLIGHTENMENT.....

"The second essential issue is the practice of the faith, because the practice of the faith, regularity of prayer, the individual search for enlightenment, are part of our tradition, but also a reality of life, in the sense that - I have no doubt that - if you practise your faith, you will fulfill this individual search for enlightenment, you will find happiness, stability, confidence, and you will be able to face the problems that you may have to encounter. "

Shams

Shams,

Bandagi (BUK) is only one facet of the search, there are other facets of the search. As the Imam tells us in his Farman above, by practising your faith you are engaging in the search and the practice is all encompassing -it is not about Bandagi only. Bandagi without amal becomes pride and hence we have to view the totality of life and not just one facet. Search involves seeking knowledge, Dasond, Dua and Farmanbardari and Bandagi is an aspect of Farmanbardari if you have taken BOL.

MSMS refers to the Iranian Jamats as those who are constantly having his Batini Deedar even without BUK. The key is purity and Bandagi (BUK) is a means towards that purity but not the only one.

Also we should not that MSMS instructed Bhagat Kara Ruda to stop Bandagi because it had served its purpose.

Bhagat Kara Ruda was told to stop doing bandagi for totally different reasons then the one you gave.
I will not go into the details here, however from a first hand account of someone that was present - there was a very specific reason, and it wasn't that it had served it's purpose.
We aren't the Iranian Jamat, or the Khusrawi Jamat or the Syrian Jamat, we are the Satpanthi Jamat and for us..baiytul Khayal, bol, the other mandlis, ghatpat etc are a baksheesh...an aide to get salvation.
Without Bandagi - no salvation - need a balance in everything...both din and duniya and even within Din and Duniya - need balance.

Shams

[ShamsB]

can any o&shy;ne tell me how to obtain Isme Aazam

<BR><BR><BR>Maria if i am not mistaking you can talk to the mukhi sahib of your jamatkhana they can make some arrangment with tarika board and some time hazar imam gives the bol through some Al-waez or missionari but again i am not 100% sure but you can give it a try there is no&nbsp; harm.....secondly if you know to read gujarati there is a book called MARFAT NA PHOOL.<BR>written by ismaili which very well explain how to concentrate in bandgi how to sit in bandgi...<BR>its a very very good book but i dont know wherter they have english or other translation of that book......ya ali madad

Tarikah Board or an ALWAEZ or even a MUKHISAHEB can not GIVE BOL.
Isme Azam or BOL can only be given by the PIR or someone designated by the PIR. You don't need bol to do ibadat....you can use any name of allah or any of the imam's names or the name of mohammed......and when Hazar Imam does give bol - then ask for it.
Keep in mind, once you take bol - you have promised that everyday for the rest of your life..you will rise at 4 am (5 am if you're in kigoma) and do bandagi.

Shams

[kmaherali]

We aren't the Iranian Jamat, or the Khusrawi Jamat or the Syrian Jamat, we are the Satpanthi Jamat and for us..baiytul Khayal, bol, the other mandlis, ghatpat etc are a baksheesh...an aide to get salvation.
Without Bandagi - no salvation - need a balance in everything...both din and duniya and even within Din and Duniya - need balance.

Shams

Such distinctions are not appropriate today. MHI is trying to bring all traditions together. There is strength in diversity and from that perspective we can learn from each other's tradition. In particular why did they enjoy the Batini Deedar even without physical contact with the Imam?

BUK is necessary and compulsary if one has taken BOL else one may practice any other form of zikr at 4.00 am or any other time of the day.

As you mentioned all rites and rituals and Mandlis are aides - they are not necessary. What is important is Dua and Dasond, everything else is voluntary including BUK.

[ShamsB]

We aren't the Iranian Jamat, or the Khusrawi Jamat or the Syrian Jamat, we are the Satpanthi Jamat and for us..baiytul Khayal, bol, the other mandlis, ghatpat etc are a baksheesh...an aide to get salvation.
Without Bandagi - no salvation - need a balance in everything...both din and duniya and even within Din and Duniya - need balance.

Shams

Such distinctions are not appropriate today. MHI is trying to bring all traditions together. There is strength in diversity and from that perspective we can learn from each other's tradition. In particular why did they enjoy the Batini Deedar even without physical contact with the Imam?

BUK is necessary and compulsary if one has taken BOL else one may practice any other form of zikr at 4.00 am or any other time of the day.

As you mentioned all rites and rituals and Mandlis are aides - they are not necessary. What is important is Dua and Dasond, everything else is voluntary including BUK.

"I am sure you will never forget that our Faith is based on thousands of years of history, and that we should learn from history and not think that our past is of no use to us now and that it can therefore be rejected, abbreviated or altered."

Hazar Imam to Ismailia Association India.

[kmaherali]

"I am sure you will never forget that our Faith is based on thousands of years of history, and that we should learn from history and not think that our past is of no use to us now and that it can therefore be rejected, abbreviated or altered."

Hazar Imam to Ismailia Association India.

Absolutely!

I am in no way suggesting that we alter our traditions. Our traditions are predicated upon Dasond, Dua and Farmanbardari...

Also in our traditions there are aspects that are compulsory and others are voluntary and our Imam is quite clear what they are.

[ShamsB]

"I am sure you will never forget that our Faith is based on thousands of years of history, and that we should learn from history and not think that our past is of no use to us now and that it can therefore be rejected, abbreviated or altered."

Hazar Imam to Ismailia Association India.

Absolutely!

I am in no way suggesting that we alter our traditions. Our traditions are predicated upon Dasond, Dua and Farmanbardari...

Also in our traditions there are aspects that are compulsory and others are voluntary and our Imam is quite clear what they are.

Yes..but even the Sunnis in their Shariat follow Salat and Zakat, if all ismailism is doing that - then what's the difference between us and them.
Why even have an Imam then? what is the importance of a living IMAM?
We are not Shariati..we are above Shariat.
Unless you are redefining Ismailism as a sharaiti faith.
The aim of being an ismaili is to attain salvation and that is done through bandagi.
The Kernel of Ismailism is Baiytul Khayal - we have a living Shah/Pir who gives us the Bol as a direct link to the Essence, to be able to self actualize.

If one does not do bandagi and reach the noor then one's birth is wasted.

I would suggest you read some of Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah's Farmans made in Dar es Salaam 1899 and even Hazar Imam's farmans made in East Africa specifically to the members of Baiytul Khayal.

Keep also in mind, that converts to the faith can not participate in Baiytul Khayal until they have been an ismaili for 3 years.

As for the Other tariqahs, they don't have bol, however they do practise bandagi, they do practise ibadat, even in China.

Shams

[kmaherali]

The Kernel of Ismailism is Baiytul Khayal - we have a living Shah/Pir who gives us the Bol as a direct link to the Essence, to be able to self actualize.

The kernel of Ismailism is Farmanbardari. Bandagi and zikr are very much an important facet of it. BUK (4.00 am) is voluntary if you have not taken BOL. Otherwise we need to practise zikr at anytime available as per Imam's guidance.

Farmanbardari to the Imam comprises the Tariqat. Bandagi is much broader than BUK (4.00 am).

[kmaherali]

Today being Shuhrawari-Beej and hence one of the most holy days in our tariqah, it is appropriate to reflect on one of our main practices -zikr. I came across a verse and its commentary which I felt was worthy of reflection.

Repeating the name of the Beloved

By Bulleh Shah
(1680 - 1758)

English version by J. R. Puri and T. R. Shangari

Repeating the name of the Beloved
I have become the Beloved myself.
Whom shall I call the Beloved now?

"Repeating the name of the Beloved / I have become the Beloved myself." You'll find variations of this statement in sacred poetry and mystic writings throughout the world. What does it mean? How does repeating the name of the Beloved make you become the Beloved?

Many Sufi traditions practice zikr, or 'the remembrance of the name of God,' often through all-night prayer circles that involve devoutly repeating the names and attributes of God. You'll find similar practices in Hinduism and Buddhism with the recitations of divine names and word formulations through mantra and japa. In Catholicism, there is the repetition of the rosary. In Eastern Orthodox Christianity, there is the Jesus Prayer...

The purpose behind all of these practices is a gentle but persistent assault on the mind. By taking the name or words that most remind you of the Divine, and repeating it over and over again, with attention and devotion, a cleansing process starts to occur in the awareness. The mind, at first, likes the sense that it is 'doing something good,' focusing on sacred things; but it soon becomes impatient, wanting to return to its old fixations, its comfortable patterns and habitual ways of viewing the world. Continuing the practice of sacred repetition allows the mind no quarter, bringing it back again and again to focus on the Divine. Do this long enough, and the mind starts to see empty spaces in itself -- a terrifying experience for the mind, since it normally expends great energy to hide its essentially empty nature behind constant activity and attachment. But continue the practice further still, deeply, and an amazing thing happens: The mind not only sees its emptiness, it sees THROUGH its emptiness to the radiance within. It recognizes that that shining presence was what was being named all along. And, since the mind has finally admitted that it has no solidity or boundary, that it has no essential reality in itself, it recognizes that there is no separation from that living radiance. The identity is finally understood to have always resided There, within the Beloved all along -- you have "become the Beloved" yourself!

But, for the devotee, this leaves a dilemma of language: Recognizing the Beloved as one's true self, the Self of all selves, who then shall you call the Beloved?

This is a verse worth... repeating.

Have a beautiful day!

Ivan

[klalji786]

YAM,

Just wanted to offer some thoughts.

1) Bandagi is an end in itself - the ultimate goal of bandagi is fana fillah - an end to which we all should aspire to. It is up to each murid to decide when he or she is ready to undertake this spiritual search - if they decide to do so.
I would reccomend concentrate at first for one minute. Imam's imense rhemat will guid you. Eventually increase the time you practice, to 2 mins then 5 mins, then 10, until you can concentrate for the hour. Imam is with you. Dont feel frustrated - it is a blessing to practice even for a minute.

2) Bol is given my Imam primarily in mulaqaats. However, any murid can request bol through an urgy or letter through their regional councils.

Best

[asifmomin1]

Ya Ali Madad,
I cannot agree more with brother KMaherali. Farmanbardari is the kernel of Ismailism. "Farmaan Maano too feera taleiy." In fact bandagi is just an example of farmanbardari. We know a lot of hindu and sufi traditions who resort to meditation for salvation but are deprived of the same due to the lack of a true teacher, "satguru."

[sherali786]

Ibadat is an exercise of the soul. Life’s fundamental objective and duty is Ibadat, and is the finest path,
the supreme duty leading the Over-self to the Union with God. But to be successful any vocation, it is
essential that a particular work be practised according of its scientific technique. The vocation may be
an industry requiring varied experimentation, and a sacrifice of time and money. It may also entail
considerable enterprise absolute tolerance and concentration, and thus as the experimenter continues
with his experiments, he would achieve greater and greater efficiency and finally reaches the fruition
when his experiments are perfected. In the similar manner through the meditative process, one attains
Spiritual Perfection, the Vasl-E-Haq (the Union with God). Before experimenting with or venturing into
this extremely delicate process. It is especially essential to have Mursheed-e-Kamil, the Spiritual Leader
a Perfect Guide. And also to learn these Meditative Practises. It is absolutely necessary to have
immense courage, endless patience and pure heart. Because, the over-self, which is the prisoner in the
cage of blood, flesh and bones, and it is indeed an extraordinary transformation for the Self to be
liberated from its prison and to attain its source i.e. to be merged into the Nur.
It is a natural law that the human destiny is moulded by the concepts and ideas (and Emotions)
nourished by the Mind. A proverb says that “where there is a will there is a way.” Pir Mursheed
explains this idea by the following analogy. “Satgur says that there is a vast difference between the
caterpillar and the wasp. The wasp takes the caterpillar into a sheltered place and stings it
constantly, and if the caterpillar bears these stings, then it emerges as a perfect insect with
wings.”
Pir Saddardin’s Ginan: “MayaNO BANDHHIO JIWADO, BHAMIYO PAR GHER JAI” – Bound by the Maya, the
spirit goes on wandering to home (i.e. birth after birth) i.e. from one re-incarnation to another.

[Alexander_Arapov]

I would say concentrate o&shy;n the Isme Azam if you have it; else remember any word of Allah, Ali, Muhammad or any exalted name.

Therefore, is it possible to concentate on the names: Fatima, Hasan, Hussein?

[agakhani]

Code: Select all

Therefore, is it possible to concentate o­n the names: Fatima, Hasan, Hussein?

As per the Farman of MHI you can recite the name of any Imam, Allah or Mohammad during Zikar. As per the waez of well known Ismaili missionaries if you do not have bol then you can recite "Ali" or Allah in Bandgi but as per my understanding we can not recite the name of Hazarat Hasan specially in bandagi because Hazarat Hasan was a pir not Imam and MHI never give any farman to take name of any PIR during bandgi.
Even though Fatima was from Ahle Bait ( PANJ TAN PAK) we can not take her name in Bandgi or during prayer.

[tereishqnachaya]

Can someone explain these terms to me?
Ibaadat, batini deedar, bol, Shuhrawari-Beej, isme azam, baitul khayyal

[ismaili103]

Can someone explain these terms to me?
Ibaadat, batini deedar, bol, Shuhrawari-Beej, isme azam, baitul khayyal

first tell...are you a ismaili...?????

[tereishqnachaya]

Can someone explain these terms to me?
Ibaadat, batini deedar, bol, Shuhrawari-Beej, isme azam, baitul khayyal

first tell...are you a ismaili...?????

I am a seeker. And if these are secret things, I am wondering why people are posting about them on a public forum..

[a_27826]

Even though Fatima was from Ahle Bait ( PANJ TAN PAK) we can not take her name in Bandgi or during prayer.

Agakhani, although its an old post of yours but i just came across it.

But how do you explain the fact that in part six of the Holly Dua we take Hassan, Fatima, the Prophet and the Imams as wasila.

I dont know know about bandagi but in our daily obligatory prayers, we do invoke names of Hassan and Fatima.

[Admin]

Even in the Ginanic litterature, we find verses on Hassan-Hussein, the 2 Noor, the Noor of Piratan and the Noor of Imamat. The ginan says the Ummah come from these two. And the Surah al Nurayan (on 2 Noors) in the Quranic Manuscript of Bankipore confirms the same.