Some lawsuit in India on Tariqah matter?

Post by **Admin** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:56 am

AS RECEIVED

Details of the Law suit in India 18-03-2011
On April 30th, 2011 mansoorali abdulrahim noorani (not verified) says:

Advocate For Plaintiff
M.A. Noorani
G-3,1 Wing No 07, Ashwin Nagar, Diwanman, Vasai Road (West), Dist Thane 401 202, Maharashtra, India.

IN THE HONOURABLE COURT OF CITY CIVIL JUDGE AT MUMBAI

Regular Civil Suit No. 728 of 2011

Mr. Hussain Hassanali Dossani, )
Age 44 years, Occ. Business, )
R/at - Rahimiya Building )Plaintiff
First floor, Room No. 21, )
Navrozi Hill Road, Dongri Market, )
Mumbai - 400 009 )

V/s.

His Highness Prince Agakhan )
Shia Imami Ismaili National )
Tariqah and Religious Education )
Board for India, Karimabad, )
116, Imamwada Road, ) Defendant
Near Bhindi Bazar, )
Mumbai - 400 009 `)

Sub : Suit for permanent Mandatory
Injunction etc.

I, the plaintiff do hereby seweth and submit before this Hon'ble Court as follows that :

1) I am an "Ismaili", a member of "Shia Imami Ismaili Muslim"community, who are the followers of His Highness Prince Agakhan Saheb - who is the spritual as well as Worldly leader of our community and whom by love, affection and his status, we call as "Mawlana Hazar Imam", who is also world famous for his philanthrophic activities, in the interest of the whole world, through his institutions like Agakhan Development Net work, having his head quarter at Aiglemont, Paris (France)

2) As per the historical facts, our beloved Mawlana Hazar Imam is the 49th "Imam", direct descendent of our beloved last Payagamber Saheb of Islam, Hazrat Nabi Mohemmad Mustufa Rasul (S.A.W.), through his daughter Hazrat Bibi "Fatima" (S.A.W.) and our first "Imam" of Islam, Hazrat Ali (S.A.W.) and thus our Mawlana Hazar Imam is "Aal-e-Nabi - Awlad-e-Ali" "Imam" and it is our firm belief-faith, that thus this "Imamat" is to continue till day of "Kayamat", "The day of Judgment", as per "Kuran-e-Sharif" also

3) This our Mawlana Hazar Imam has given our community "The constitution for Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims" applicable to whole community throughout world and also given Rules and Regulations for shia Imami Ismaili Muslims in India, as amended in 1986.

4) The defendant is an appointed body under provisions of our constitution, by our Mawlana Hazar Imam and it is responsible for all social as well as religious activities, administration and performances, in and among our jamat - in our Jamatkhanas all over India.

5) “Jamat” is the word used for a group of Ismaili community members, residing in particular local Jamatkhanas areas.

6) “Jamatkhana” is the word used for the “place for prayers”, where Ismail community members get together in morning and evening prayer times - in morning at about 3.00 A.M. to 6.00 A.M. and in evening at about 6.00 P.M. to 9.00 P.M. and also at other specified times for prayers for our religion based performances as required, etc.

7) Our religion is called "Shia Imami Ismail Muslim" - which is specific one of tariqahs of Islam and we have got our own beliefs, principles, faith, on the basis of "Kuran-e-Sharif" - "The Hadith Sharif" – “our Ginans” - given to us by our "Pirs" and "Saiyeds", "Ginan" is the word - used for religious poems, having full of religious real original knowledge of and about our tariqah, which are derived from the original message from "Kuran-e-Sharif" also, and "Pir" is word used for the person appointed as "Pir" by Imam of the time - who is known for having special spiritual power gifted by Imam and who dedicates his life for preaching of our religion in its original spirit and form to the whole word.

As our Shia Imami Ismail tariqah with "Principles of Imamat" is completely based on "Kuran-e-Sharif" - it was and it is the responsibility of the defendant - National Tariqah and religious education board for India - to put on “Paat" - the "Kuran-e-Sharif" with its real interpretation - in each Jamatkhana all over India, so that Jamat could have real understanding of "Kuran-e-Sharif" which is not being done uptill now, only in past, some few years back, some parts of a "Kuran-e-Sharif" was published by defendant but then after, it was never done further for the whole "Kuran-e-Sharif" -because either they are afraid of publishing real interpretation of the "Kuran-e-Sharif", from the people of the world or they want to hide the real interpretation of the "Kuran-e-Sharif" from the people of the world, and due to this their inactivity - our jamat is suffering from lack of real knowledge about real interpretation of "Kuran-e-Sharif". Uptill now the defendant has not declared in jamat in Jamatkhanas in any form as to why they have not publish or do not published real interpretation of "Kuran-e-Sharif".

9) Our jamat does not know and could not understand as to why real interpretation of "Kuran-e-Sharif" - with other literatures, is not published and put on "Paat" with other literatures, for real knowledge of our Jamat - which is must and extremely essential for our Jamat in Jamatkhanas all over India. In absence of any such real interpretation of "Kuran-e-Sharif" - our jamati members have to rely upon - those thousands of interpretations which are available in market - which do not collaborate with real original interpretation of the "Kuran-e-Sharif" as per our belief, which then creates confusion, misunderstanding in the minds of the persons of our Jamat, and which inspires to leave up Ismailism and then follow non Ismailism and there is number of thousands of Ismailies - who were in confusion and surrounded by misunderstanding - in absence of real interpretation of "Kuran-e-Sharif" - which was and is to be provided by defendant to all Ismailies in India through Jamatkhanas all over India, as well as, make available to those who want to purchase - and for this inactivity of defendant - so many Ismailies have left our religion (Ismail Tariqah) and they are still wandering here and therein search of "Siratal Mustakim" as mentioned in "Kuran-e-Sharif".

10) It was before few centuries only (3 or 4 centuries) that, there was no Ismail in India, but out Pirs - one after another - came to India and preached Ismailism through their Ginans also - as a result of which those who understood about the real religion or Ismailism, accepted Ismailism as their religion and today it is the factual situation that, crores of Ismailies are spread over world originally from India.

11) Thus primary duty of the defendant is to preach Ismailism in public in general and thus, increase number of Ismailies by making them aware of understanding about Ismailism, while here the defendant is doing such inactivity which decreases the number of Ismailies - which is always against the interest of Ismailism as well as principles of Ismailism.

12) Whatever our Mawlana Hazar Imam as “Imam of the time” gives oral guidance, during "Didar", to Jamat, whenever and wherever he visits - either in India or any part of the world - is called "Farman" - which are accepted as Mandate by all Ismailies - wherever they live - whether present or not during the said "Didar" - which "Farman" on the spot - are translated by defendant management - in local language for understanding of Jamat - (In India these Farmans are translated into Gujarati), and which Framans are also supposed soon to be provided to Jamat all over India - but uptill now only a few of farmans made either in India or outside India - are made available to be read over only in Jamatkhanas during prayer times and that also in few lines only. and not made available to Jamat - in forms of volumes - to purchase and to keep at Home to read over often - to follow with understanding as guided by our Mawlana Hazar Imam. So, there is ultimate and extreme necessity of providing all those farmans - from 11/07/1957 till today, and further also in form of volumes to be put on "Paat" and made available to those who want to purchase those farmans - so as to read at their own place and time.

13) The plaintiff state that, Farmans of our 48th Imam, Hazrat Imam Sir Sultan Mohammad Shah - were published by the defendant in two volumes in past - titled as – “Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubin” - part I and II, which were since beginning put on "Paat" in all Jamatkhanas all over India, and were made available to those who wanted to purchase those volumes to read at their own place and time. But recently, those volumes of Farmans are withdrawn from Jamatkhanas and stopped its publications and also made unavailable to Jamatkhanas and members of our community all over India, and that also without any authentic circular or any "Talika" or "Farman" of our Mawlana Hazar Imam, which is totally illegal and attack over the religious as well as civil right of each member of our community.

14) It is the "Farman" of our Mawlana Hazar Imam also that, any Farman of any Imam, till it is cancelled by the Imam, remains as it is not which means that, to cancel and / or withdraw any farman from Jamat is the right of Imam only and not any body else.

15) It is also Farman of our Mawlana Hazar Imam that, it is a right of Imam of the time only to bring any change in fundamental principles of our religion.

16) I have been submitting orally and/or by telephone so many times before National Tarika Board regarding this problem of unavailability of Farmans of Mawlana Hazar Imam and Sir Sultan Mohammad Shah, but they are not responding positively and there is not any provision also in our constitution as to, if defendant does any illegal activity in and around Jamat, and Jamatkhanas then what is to be done, and so only alternate left to me and our jamati members is to go before Hon'ble Court of Law towards the breach of their such religious as well as civil right/s.

17) In absence of availability of all these such Farmans myself and other community members, have to suffer a lot from availing - gaining knowledge to fulfill the knowledge - provided by our Mawlana Hazar Imam and Hazrat Imam Sir Sultan Mohamed Shah in the interest of improving our quality of life in all aspects.

18) Cause of action :

Cause of action for filing the suit arised since the defendant not providing - made available farmans of Mawlana Hazar Imam - in all - since 11-07-1957 till today to me and other jamaty members and not put on Paat in all Jamakhanas all over India, and not made available in form of volumes for the purpose of purchase also and since the defendant silently without the knowledge of Jamati Members withdrawn the volumes of farmans of Hazat Imam Sir Sultan Mohammad Shah from Jamatkhanas as well as Jamat's.

19) Jurisdiction :

The plaintiff resides in the local area of Darkhana Jamatkhana for Shia Imami Muslim in Dongri, Mumbai - 400 009, which is situated within the jurisdiction of this Court, and so this Hon'ble Court can try and entertain this suit.

20) Court Fee :

Considering the value of the suit Rs. 1000/- accordingly Court fee stamp Rs. ............... is applied.

21) The defendants behavior seems to be of the nature who will not do as demanded by plaintiff unless and until necessary order/s in the matter are passed by this Hon'ble Court in the interest of Justice for me and other members of our community.

22) Balance of convenience is totally in the favour of plaintiff.

PRAYERS :

a) The Hon'ble Court be pleased to pass an order in form of permanent mandatory injunction that, defendant to publish and provide all Real interpretation of whole Kuran-e-Sharif the Farmans of our Mawlana Hazar Imam from 11/07/1957 till today, and all the farmans or Hazrat Imam Sir Sultan Mohammad Shah since beginning till 11/07/1957 in form of volumes to plaintiff and other community members and all Jamats in Jamatkhanas all over India, and made available to those who want to purchase those farmans.

b) Any further relief as the Hon'ble Court may think fit and proper.

Filed in Court
on /03/2011 PLAINTIFF

VERIFICATION

I Mr. Hussain Hassanali Dossani, plaintiff do hereby state on verification that, whatever stated in para No. 1 to 22 is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief and I believe the same to be true.

Filed in Court
on /03/2011 PLAINTIFF

.................................
Advocate for Plaintiff

* India

new
DETAILS OF THE LAW SUIT in INDIA -- 18 /03 /2011
On April 29th, 2011 mansoorali abdulrahim noorani (not verified) says:

Dear -- Umed --Alibhai Jiwani -- A. Punjwani -- Abdullah -- Pirani & All Ismailis -- in India & World Wide -- Ya Ali Madad -- I have been always trying to be a Namra Sevvak of Jamat & MHI -- as per His Desire -- and without any Prejudice/s to any Leader/s -- Worker/s -- Professional/s -- in Council/s -- Institution/s -- but since my Childhood ( today I am 63 )--My self --My Family -- Our Local Jamat-- & -- Others -- in touch of my Grand Father (who expired in 1971) were All provided with Sanskar of Seva of Jamat & Imam -- through his WAEZ/S -- He was LIFE TIME MISSIONARY -- and Hazrat Imam Sultan Mohemmad Shah was Calling him as " MISSIONARY ''-- and He was having so many Opportunities -- to Work under Direct Guidence of Imam SMS --
He was FOUNDER ( with four other Ismailis )of RECREATION CLUB in MUMBAI -- under Guidence 0f Imam SMS -- which then turned into ISMAILIA ASSOCIATION for INDIA -- and Presently TARIQAH & RELIGIOUS EDUCATION BOARD for INDIA -- He was MUKHI SAHEB for 50 years -- at the same time PRESIDENT of AHMEDABAD COUNCIL for 20 years -- and PRESIDENT of SIDHPUR COUNCIL ( president of two councils -- at the same time -- under direct order of Imam SMS ) -- my FATHNER SAHEB -- my BROTHER was MUKHI SAHEB -- but because of my some different Nature of Not Tollerating Injustice - - To Jamat -- I was not recommended for any POST -- but after my some strong activities for Jamat -- and TROUBLESOME for COUNCIL/S -- I was offered -- some POST in past -- which I had Politely Denied -- saying that Let Me Continue to be a Lion of Jungle and Not That of a Circus -- and I kept on my activities without POST -- the SUIT filed in INDIA is not only subject matter -- there are so many other SUBJECT MATTERS ( FOR INJUSTICE/S TO JAMAT in INDIA &/or WORLD WIDE ) -- READY WITH ME -- To Be Filed -- either by MYSELF or ISMAILI CLINT/S -- where in LEGAL NOTICE/S are Served for their ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES -- NON PERFORMANCE/S -- MIS PERFORMANCE/S -- To OUR INSTITUTION/S but STILL UNREPLIED -- before issuing NOTICE/S -- I had been writting so many Letter/s to NATION COUNCIL even but UNREPLIED/NO RESONSE /S -- with an IMPRESSION/BELIEF that JAMATI SUBMISSION/S MEANS -- BHAJI & MULA -- what JAMAT CAN/WILL DO ? WILL WRITE TO MHI --NO PROBLEM -- IT WILL BE MANAGED NOT TO REACH -- but after filing SUIT -- CIRCUMTANCES GOT CHANGED -- MY ISMAILI CLIENT and I WAS ALSO CALLED by NATIONAL LEADERS TO WITHDRAW SAID SUIT -- IN ANY CIRCUMTANCES -- BUT MY CLIENT as well as I had denied to with draw -- threates were also given to withdraw by NATIONAL LEADERS -- Recently an offer has come from one NATIONAL LEADER TO SET A MEETING WITH NATIONAL PRESIDENT SAHEB -- BUT WITH DUE RESPECT -- MY /OUR CONDITION/S IS /ARE THAT IT SHOULD BE GIVEN IN WRITTING IN HON. COURT THAT JAMATI RELAVENT WORKS WILL BE DONE AS PER GUIDENCE/S OF MHI -- BY CONCERNED PARTIES IN THE SAID SUIT (CONSENT DECREE -- THAT ALSO WITH PERMISSION OF THE HON. COURT ONLY)-- --------------BACK GROUND will /can continue LONG ....... SO ....I.....GIVE A BRAKE HERE....... JUST TO POST THE DETAILS OF THE LAW SUIT IN INDIA ....SOON AFTER THIS POST -- SEPERATELY -- .SO THAT NO BODY HAS TO WAIT TO KNOW ABOUT THE CONTENT/S OF THE SAID LAW SUIT in INDIA......BUT AFTERWARDS ALSO I WILL CONTINUE TO KEEP ON WITH -- BACK GROUND & INFORMATION/S IN ANY ACTIVITIES FOR JAMAT & MHI......... TILL THEN YA ALI MADAD...........!

* India

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:27 am

Interesting,

Now wait and see what Indian court give judgement on plaintiff's following demands and what action His Highness Prince Agakhan
Shia Imami Ismaili National Tariqah and Religious Education Board for India and MHI is taking.

1, PUT QURAN-E-SHARIF ON 'PAAT' WITH IT REAL INTERPRETATION IN EACH AND EVERY JAMATKHANA ALL OVER IN INDIA.

2, A FULL GUJARATI TRANSLATION OF ALL THE FARMANS OF MOWLANA HAZAR IMAM SHOULD PROVIDED TO THE JAMAT.

3,RESTART PUBLISHING KALAM-E-IMAM-E-MUBIN AGAIN AND MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO THE JAMAT.

I would like to know more about this lawsuit specially Mowlana Hazar Imam's opinion on plaintiff's above demands.

KRattansi · Post by **KRattansi** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:46 pm

Very interesting!

I wonder if the lawsuit will hold any grounds since Tarika board is not any officially registered Institute outside the jamat.

Court may advise the plaintiff to take the matters to Ismaili Council and Or Arbitration board first and if no response to put forward in front of MHI

Copy right law is a different global issue as compared to what is in this matter.
Court could rule on copyright infringement plainly as a valid case.Since it applies across the board globally also in secular world.

But to make available Quran interpretation on the pat in JK is a private Ismaili matter.( I am not aware of any such ritual)
How can any court rule on that?

Also for knowledge sake MHI did mention in GJ darbar in E Africa that IIS and Imamat are still working on the Quranic interpretation for Shia Ismailis on an ongoing basis
He did not say the work is completed so How can that be made available to Jamat if it is not completed?
So the answer by Tarika board is simple.
In the rites and rituals of JK I have never heard that Quran must be on the pat?
Please Quote any Ginan or Farman to illustrate the point.I am not aware if there is any?

So the Tarika board and MHI will totally deny this point.
The only valid point which might be of some importance is the availabilty of "farmans" to murids.
The farmans are not available to murids in Jk and private use as promised by the leaders.
But again that is to be first adressed to local and national councils and then to MHI
Only thing this case might do is raise the awareness among the Institutions for the necessity to make the Farmans available to the jamat.

Tarika board will plainly deny any responsibilty by writing it is the perogative of Imam to do at His discretion.
I am personally not impressed by the content and the presentaion of the case
I do not think Tarika board or council will give any importance either.
I will be surprised if it goes forward.

Bloglaw · Post by **Bloglaw** » Sun May 01, 2011 2:42 am

agakhani wrote:Interesting,

Now wait and see what Indian court give judgement on plaintiff's following demands and what action His Highness Prince Agakhan <BR>Shia Imami Ismaili National Tariqah and Religious Education Board for India and MHI is taking.

1, PUT QURAN-E-SHARIF on PAAT' WITH IT REAL INTERPRETATION IN EACH AND EVERY JAMATKHANA ALL OVER IN INDIA.

2, A FULL GUJARATI TRANSLATION OF ALL THE FARMANS OF MOWLANA HAZAR IMAM SHOULD PROVIDED TO THE JAMAT.

3,RESTART PUBLISHING KALAM-E-IMAM-E-MUBIN AGAIN AND MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO THE JAMAT.

I would like to know more about this lawsuit specially Mowlana Hazar Imam's opinion on plaintiff's above demands.

Reply

This lawsuit shows a critical need which Leaders need to address. regarding the questions

Q
I am not aware if there was ever a Quran e Shariff was placed in any specific place in a prayer hall. There are vairous sunni and Shia schools of thought and interpretations and translations of the Quran, supported by Hadiths, fatwas and guidances from scholars and Imams. In the case of Ismailies guidance comes from the Imam of the time.<BR><BR>Q 2  and 3<BR>In the lawsuit against Alnaz Jiwa and Nagib Tajdin in Canada there is clear confirmation by the Leaders,  and Hazar Imam to Leaders, that Farmans are available to all Ismailies in all Jamat Khana's even in remote locations. If Leaders are not doing so in Mumbai - India, then the Leadership are not respecting the Farmans and wishes of Hazar Imam. I hope there will be internal discussions and this lawsuit will be withdrawn by agreement (even though legally it could be dismissed). Imam wishes us to resolve all issues internally and by discussion

Post by **Admin** » Sun May 01, 2011 8:52 am

There are thousands of interpretations of the Quran. I am glad we are not restricted to one interpretation.

As for making the Farmans available to the Jamat, it is the obligation of each Ismaili to preserve and distribute Farmans to all Ismailis. This task can not be left to one individual or one institution.

Out tradition for centuries is that Murids transcribe and record the Farmans and circulate and discuss them with their Jamat, their children and their grand children.

Insh'allah this will never stop as not doing so would be the same as killing the tradition of Farman sharing.

Relying on others and various institutions to do something that can be done by each Ismailis is really not very bright.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun May 01, 2011 9:52 am

If Leaders are not doing so in Mumbai - India, then the Leadership are not respecting the Farmans and wishes of Hazar Imam.

Some time we can blame the leaders but not all the time, it is possible that they may have some reasons not to reprint 'KALAM-E-IMAM-MUBIN (the farman books of Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah (s.a.) again. IN MY THINKING IT MIGHT POSSIBLE THAT IIS GAVE INDIAN TARIQA BOARD INSTRUCTION NOT TO REPRINT ABOVE BOOK, WHO KNOWS?

But let discuss about above reason, just think that the Institute of Ismaili Study (IIS) gave instruction not to reprint KIM just for a moment, then in my opinion this action is not wise action may be I am wrong but read my explanation below and decide be a judge and decide whether this decision of IIS decision (not to reprint KIM book) is right or wrong.
We all know that IIS is the only official institution which one authorized and supervised by Mowlana Hazar Imam for research and print any Ismaili literature, however IIS most literature are in English language,
only five books has been published in Gujarati and Urdu language in its more than 30 years operation, it is not fair for the Jamat from India and Pakistan. Why??? read below!

If we look the Ismaili population in Western and Eastern countries (from, where we Ismailis actually spread in different countries) my thinking is most Ismailis are still residing in eastern countries than western countries and I believe that they definitely prefer to read in books in their own languages like Gujarati and Urdu rather then English, French, because they are not well educated and does not know very well English, French, Arabic or Persian languages.

In my opinion IIS should not ignore Eastern side Ismailis, matter of fact they are the original Ismailis and of course population wise they are more than western side Ismailis. Therefore as per my thinking IIS needs to publish more books in their own languages too. there are many valuable Gujarati, Urdu and Khojki books which are out of print (like "NOORAN MUBIN", "KALAME IMAME MUBIN" OF MSM) for a long time these books definitely need to be reprint.
ALSO THERE ARE MANY UNPUBLISHED GINANS,GRANTHS AND FARMANS IN KHOJKI, PUNJBAI, SINDHI AND OTHER INDO LANGUAGES WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED BEFORE, IIS CAN COLLECT THESE VALUABLE LITERATURE AND START TO PUBLISH THESE IMPORTANT LITERATURE (IF IIS PROHIBIT TO PRINT OF ANY ISMAILI BOOKS TO INDIAN TARIQA BOARD, PAKISTAN TARIQA BOARD OR ANY OTHER COUNTRIES TARIQA BOARD)INSTEAD OF PUBLISHING BOOKS IN ENGLISH.
these Indo-pak literature may treasure of gold for some interested Ismailis, therefore IIS needs to give more attention in this matter RATHER THAN PUBLISHING other languages books every other week.

Please take a note, neither I am backing the plaintiff's demands and say he is right nor I am against the Tariqa board for India and IIS, above is my own opinion and thoughts and I don't claim myself that I am 100% right, may be I am wrong in my above opinion and IIS and Tariqa Board decision are may be right who know? that is why I am interested to know the outcome of this lawsuit

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun May 01, 2011 10:08 am

As for making the Farmans available to the Jamat, it is the obligation of each Ismaili to preserve and distribute Farmans to all Ismailis. This task can not be left to one individual or one institution.

Good suggestion Admin but question here is, how any Ismaili can receive the farmans? distribution of farmans to all Ismailis it is easy but you need to receive farman first from Tariqa Board or from Mukhi Saheb from your local JK. If I ask Tariqa Board for the copy of MHI"s recent Golden Jubilee Faramans made in all countries MHI just visited in 2007-2008 year , then they will not give me, I am pretty sure, they will not give me , so how I can distribute these farmans to other Ismailis when I am not able to get it for my self??!!

Bloglaw · Post by **Bloglaw** » Tue May 03, 2011 8:01 am

agakhani wrote:
As for making the Farmans available to the Jamat, it is the obligation of each Ismaili to preserve and distribute Farmans to all Ismailis. This task can not be left to one individual or one institution.
Good suggestion Admin but question here is, how any Ismaili can receive the farmans? distribution of farmans to all Ismailis it is easy but you need to receive farman first from Tariqa Board or from Mukhi Saheb from your local JK. If I ask Tariqa Board for the copy of MHI"s recent Golden Jubilee Faramans made in all countries MHI just visited in 2007-2008 year , then they will not give me, I am pretty sure, they will not give me , so how I can distribute these farmans to other Ismailis when I am not able to get it for my self??!!

I think you must ask and be sure. Start with Mukhi Saheb, and then ITREB. If they refuse ask the reason and inform them that in the lawsuit that our top leadership have said clearly that Hazar Imam has directed that Farmans should be made available to you to read and study. If they still say no then you should write to your President with a copy to Chairman/bhanu of ITREB and a copy to your Mukhi Saheb too. Let us know what happens. If they still say no then you should write to LIF and to Hazar Imam. My post below is for Leaders and also applies to Murids.

2011, May 2 - 16:04 — Bloglaw (not verified) Leaders should ask the following question and read the post below;

Did not every Imam, and Hazar Imam say clearly that all farmans, Talikas and guidance must be shared by Leaders with the Jamat ? That being so;

Should I as a Leader have access to all Imam's Farmans, Talika's and annotations to enable me to read, understand and share them ? That being so

Should SS , MM and Top leaders share Farmans and end this lawsuit as directed by Hazar Imam on 15th October 2010 ? That being so, and since the top leaders are not doing either ;

Should I approach and seek guidance direct from Hazar Imam because I have been entrusted with an obligation and a commitment to do so ? That being so

If I do not do so as a Leader; Then am I fulfilling my oath of allegiance, and my personal commitment and oath of my appointment “… I shall perform with absolute honesty, integrity, devotion, and diligence, and to the best of my ability, all the duties and obligations entrusted to me.. I shall DEFEND Imam’s constitutions and Imam’s rules regulations and directions.. “

Leaders must not think Mawla does not know.

For example, Farman in London GJ, lecture on 15th Oct, and what Mawla said in 2006 in Hyderabad regarding societies and Leaders, (which especially includes Ismailies)

- ".... Every society develops and depends on some set of leaders — but the great question is how those leaders are developed and chosen. For much of human history, leaders were born into their roles, or they fought their way in — or they bought their way in. Elites were normally based on physical power, or accumulated wealth, or inherited claims to authority. But social progress can be greatest when aristocracies of class give way to aristocracies of talent — or to use an even better term — to meritocracies. The well-led society of the future, in my view, will be a meritocracy — where leadership roles are based on personal and intellectual excellence.

Our goal, then, is not to provide special education for a privileged elite — but to provide an exceptional education for the truly exceptional....". ( www.nanowisdoms.org )

2011, May 2 - 04:40 — Bloglaw (not verified) - Is it time for Elected Leaders ?

The Dalai lama recently decided to change from selected leaders to elected leadership. This will not diminish his authority or the need for guidance by his community of 6 million. A part of his reason was that autocracy should not be a reason to hold back his community or stop them from having an autonomous state of their own.

Imam has recently spoken for new constitutions and mindsets. Does Mawla have in mind or is it time for a change from selected to elected leaders for all our top and strategic Leadership appointments ?

The present autocracy and secrecy by SS and the inner circle will need to be replaced by more and much needed openness, trust, unity, transparency and meritocracy (As Hazar Imam wishes)

2011, May 1 - 04:27 — Bloglaw (not verified) Need for a change of mindset

For a long time there was a hereditary system of leadership which passed down from fathers to sons This was the culture and tradition before the knowledge society. We are now transitioning into a new era.

Imam of the time decided it is time to set up institutions and a new constitution some 25 years ago. A major change. Leaders in future need to be appointed meritocratically with changes periodically for the good of the Jamat and leaders.

Leaders have failed to fully appreciate that this will benefit them even more. Therefore they have tried to maintain the status quo and recycle positions and to play political musical chairs.

Imam now advises there is a critical need for a change of mindset and Imam also foresees a need for new constitutions. This was reinforced in the La Fontaine lecture on 15th Oct 2010 by Hazar Imam.

If Leaders ensure Imam's wishes and guidance are shared and implemented, then they will be enabling and empowering themselves and the Jamat to work together and express shared values with moral authority which needs to flow from our hearts. This will increase confidence, respect and trust.

When that happens, there will undoubtedly be significant and unparalleled material and spiritual progress of the Jamat and Leaders.

I hope Leaders will appreciate and realise Imam's vision and wishes is not only for the good of the Jamats, but is inclusive and includes Leaders.

The lawsuit needs to end as directed by Hazar Imam on 15th October 2010, and it is up to the leaders to take the initiative to do so.

the link.
http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/comment ... 29740/9608

http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/comment ... 29740/9471

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue May 03, 2011 12:16 pm

Well written bloglaw,

You get solid points and very important issues to thing about for leaders and readers and therefore
I wish that all jamati leaders and readers from this website read your above post, but chances are very slim for leaders because obviously all leaders may not come in this website.

By the way, I tried one times to purchase some Ismaili books through Tariqa Board for India via telephone, but response were not satisfactory, so I assumed that they were not interested to sell it, even though I was ready to pay for the cost of the books along with shipping charge, however I have to confess that my call was for books not for farmans but they could have taken the same action for farmans too, who knows? so I didn't bother to ask them.

Mukhi/ Kamadia saheb may or may not have all Golden jubilee farmans of the countries Mowlana Hazar Imam visited during golden Jubilee year, however it is nothing wrong to ask them.

Of course, I wish that above lawsuit end soon peaceably, but I still wish that the farmans, ginans and other important books which I mentioned in one of my post above make available to each and every interested jamati members easily, if leaders prefer not to put KIM on 'PAAT', I think leaders have pressure from higher authority.

Now a days other religion peoples try very hard to spread their own religion, distributing books and other literature free of charge, puting their literature on internet, giving readers free dowlnload facility, while in our religion the leaders prohibiting to publish our valuable literature and important books even though our Imam insist to do that, what a pity?[/quote]

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue May 03, 2011 5:20 pm

I wonder if the lawsuit will hold any grounds since Tarika board is not any officially registered Institute outside the jamat.

Not only it will hold its ground but also will expose the loop holes in ismailism....Tarikah and religious board is a body that acts on behalf of the agakhan .....the case is against the council and not any particular board !

Court may advise the plaintiff to take the matters to Ismaili Council and Or Arbitration board first and if no response to put forward in front of MHI

If thats the case the court would not accept this case in 1st place, espically in a country like india ! ....Having said this all the religious and secular laws or rules should be amended as mentioned in the constitution and thats what the court would look for

Copy right law is a different global issue as compared to what is in this matter.

There is no copyright issue here since the one who put this case wants only 2 things namely :

1] The holy quran and its interpretation should be made available to ismailis by the agakhan provided its interpreted by the agakhan himself and not only this but also it should support the ismaili tariqah

2] The firman of agakhan be made available to the jamat [UNEDITED VERSION]

But to make available Quran interpretation on the pat in JK is a private Ismaili matter.( I am not aware of any such ritual)
How can any court rule on that?

Its not private, the agakhan should have done this loooooong time ago !!....i.e provide the jamat with the real interpretation of the quran as and whole !!! ....What the court might ask the agakhan is whether his interpretation of quran is any different from that of other sects which agakhan might gladly refuse....thus case closed !!!

Also for knowledge sake MHI did mention in GJ darbar in E Africa that IIS and Imamat are still working on the Quranic interpretation for Shia Ismailis on an ongoing basis
He did not say the work is completed so How can that be made available to Jamat if it is not completed?
So the answer by Tarika board is simple.

Well you're talking about ismaili namaz which lots and lots of people have argued about on this website !!....Its completely different brother....the question is about the holy book quran and its interpretation and not namaz !!

In the rites and rituals of JK I have never heard that Quran must be on the pat?

Well this is because ismailis believe that ginan is the tarjuma or interpretation of holy quran

Please Quote any Ginan or Farman to illustrate the point.I am not aware if there is any?

Sorry I dont have any firman of agakhan as of now !!! But I personally feel that the agakhan never emphasised on the teachings of quran in 1st place instead he always wanted the jamat to know the actual meaning of ginans !!

So the Tarika board and MHI will totally deny this point.
The only valid point which might be of some importance is the availabilty of "farmans" to murids.
The farmans are not available to murids in Jk and private use as promised by the leaders.
But again that is to be first adressed to local and national councils and then to MHI
Only thing this case might do is raise the awareness among the Institutions for the necessity to make the Farmans available to the jamat.

You're absolutely correct !!

Tarika board will plainly deny any responsibilty by writing it is the perogative of Imam to do at His discretion.
I am personally not impressed by the content and the presentaion of the case
I do not think Tarika board or council will give any importance either.
I will be surprised if it goes forward.

It will move on if the person who have filed this case doesnt see the following changes.....and if this guy is pulled back more shall rise.....so we dont want a quick fix solution here but rather the agakhan should stand up and clean the mess both in his council and the jamatkhana once and for all !!!

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue May 03, 2011 5:41 pm

Brother Admin said :

There are thousands of interpretations of the Quran. I am glad we are not restricted to one interpretation.

You're right but what if you learn all the interpretations excluding the real ismaili interpretation ??

What if the interpretation given by the agakhan happens to be completely different that what you and me used to follow ??

As for making the Farmans available to the Jamat, it is the obligation of each Ismaili to preserve and distribute Farmans to all Ismailis. This task can not be left to one individual or one institution.

You preserve only if you have anything to show or spread in the jamat.....If you dont have anything to offer who are you going to show and what ?

The task is left on a board that is located everywhere in the world.....what could be better than a board made up of members who work according to the command of the agakhan ?

Out tradition for centuries is that Murids transcribe and record the Farmans and circulate and discuss them with their Jamat, their children and their grand children.

Times have changed admin.....if you record something that belongs to agakhan and if you want the world to know i.e ismailis....you get sued for that as its copy right stuff !!!

And you get sued by none other than the imam himself who doesnt want world to know what happens behind those closed doors and god knows why ??

Insh'allah this will never stop as not doing so would be the same as killing the tradition of Farman sharing.

In past sharing was treated as caring but in present world.....SHARING IS DARING

Relying on others and various institutions to do something that can be done by each Ismailis is really not very bright.

You're righ but then again do you think that person who took this to the court wasn't aware of this ??

Bloglaw · Post by **Bloglaw** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:09 am

The following Farmans were published by the H H The Aga Khan Shia Imami Ismailia Association for UK. Imam wishes Mukhis, Kamadais, council Members and all Leaders to seek guidance from Imam on any matters. Knowing SS, MM and some top leaders not following Imam’s Farmans, why are Mukhis, Kamadia councillors and other leaders not seeking direct guidance and advice. Some critical question for them to consider and seek guidance and advice.

1 Why was there no dialogue with Alnaz Jiwa before the Lawsuit was filed against him, and no dialogue between Leaders and the 2 murids after the lawsuit was filed?
2 Why SS, MM and Chairman of LIF did not end the lawsuit as directed by Hazar Imam on 15th Oct 2010;
3 Why are Farmans edited by the top Leaders and not all not shared with all the Jamat ?
4 Did Hazar Imam intend the recent Talika to be read only a few Jamat Khanas when it is clearly meant for all the Jamat ?
5 Why was SS handing out unsigned copies of the recent Talika in London before the Talika was announced ?
6 Why are SS and leaders are refusing to discuss or clarify the many issues arising from the Lawsuit, which are in conflict with Imams guidance and Farmans.
7 Why Farmans and books by Ismaili Authors as directed by Hazar Imam are not being published or made available to all the Jamat, etc.
8 Why was there a lawsuit against 2 murids regarding one book of Farmans when they have published many before over 18 years. And there are many more I am sure they will also have.

Excerpts of Farmans

“I want to remind you that I have appointed in each Jamat Khana a Mukhi and a Kamadia. You have office bearers, councillors and if there are problems that are arising, I wish these problems to be referred to Mukhis and the Kamadias and my Jamati officers and councils etc …”

… It is the responsibility of these spiritual Children ( Mukhis Kamadias and councillors) to assist the Jamat in solving its problems, and to bring to my attention any matters which need the Imam’s guidance or advice “ (Imam says “ANY” matters)

At an Institutions mehmani “.. It is your responsibility to ensure the happiness, the unity, the success of the Jamat in a wordly manner and in my absence to follow the instructions which I have given you, and remember that all times you are in my heart , in my thoughts and in my prayers Khanavadaan Khanavadaan Khanavaaan.

“.. though I leave you tomorrow physically, I leave you with my trust, I leave you with my confidence, and I place my trust in your efforts, in your sincerity, in your hard work, to serve the Jamat, to serve them with the best of you ability, loyally and sincerely. Seek to be effective, to be kind, and to remember there is no better service than the service that you give to others “

“ I do not want to find any Parochial attitudes, … And this is equally true from my Jamati institutions. It is their responsibility to serve all the Jamat no matter where they come from, no matter what language they speak, no matter what age they are, the institutions are there to serve the Jamat “ 2 (Parochial meaning “ narrow and limited without any regard for other and wider issues)

I hope everyone will circulate this to Mukhis, Kamadias, Council members and Leaders to remind them of Imam’s wishes and these farmans

Regarding this case in India I hope and pray there will be dialogue and discusions by the Leaders and the Murids involved to end the case and for all to work together internally in accordance with the wishes and directions of Hazar Imam. Ameen

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu May 05, 2011 12:58 pm

Very well said blog !!!

I hope everyone will circulate this to Mukhis, Kamadias, Council members and Leaders to remind them of Imam’s wishes and these farmans

On what basis is the person or a council member selected ?? Is it based on his qualification ?? Is is based on his income ?? Is it based on his religious education ? Or all the above ??

Lets take an example of the president of national council of india....This guy is the doctor and veryyyy rich and educated....In short this guy is smart enough to control the current situation yet wasnt he aware that this problem would arise ?? Do you wait till the last minute thinking ohhh the guy who have this problem is a sissy and will run away ??

Why dont we help those jamati members who need answers to their question ?

Why cant the agakhan interpret the whole quran as per his knowledge and let the rest of the world learn from that !!! Nobody is perfect !!! ...But atleast you did what you were chosen for....Being a vicar of god it is your duty to interpret faith that is established on holy quran !!!!

How will you interpret faith when you havent interpreted the whole of quran for your followers to learn and seek guidance ??

Regarding this case in India I hope and pray there will be dialogue and discusions by the Leaders and the Murids involved to end the case and for all to work together internally in accordance with the wishes and directions of Hazar Imam. Ameen

I hope and pray that this poor guy who filed this case is not harassed by the jamati members who spit gutkha on the walls of jamatkhana and yet wanna be the saviour of faith when it comes to logic !!!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu May 05, 2011 1:43 pm

Code: Select all

 Well this is because ismailis believe that ginan is the tarjuma or interpretation of holy quran

Shiraz, read your own post above; you agree that ginan is the tarjuma or interpretation of holy Quran? well, read one more time after you finish reading, read your another post below:-

Code: Select all

Why cant the agakhan interpret the whole quran as per his knowledge and let the rest of the world learn from that

Your first quote above is absolutely right for we Ismailis, we believe that ginans are the interpretation of Quran and therefore we don't need any interpretation of Quran and that is why "AGAKHAN" in your word but MHI for me and other readers does not make interpretation of Quran.

FYI: There are thousand and thousand interpretation available of Quran now a days, made by many scholars in many languages but till today you can't find any Ismaili scholar made interpretation of Quran not in only English but in any language!!!, is not surprise you? is not proof that we Ismaili don't need any interpretation of Quran because our ginans are sufficient for us??!

Post by **Admin** » Thu May 05, 2011 2:12 pm

We have the living Quran. What else to say.

I remember a Bohra once published an "Ismaili" translation of the Quran, he almost got crucified by extremist, he had to withdraw his translation and replace it by a Sunni translation.... Shakir was the name and the place of publication was New York.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:04 pm

Shiraz, read your own post above; you agree that ginan is the tarjuma or interpretation of holy Quran? well, read one more time after you finish reading, read your another post below

Im sorry I should have added "most ismailis" in my previous posts.....Majority of ismailis are taught that ginans are the actual tarjuma of quran which I personally think is incorrect !

Ginans are usually based on hindu mythology and so on !!

Your first quote above is absolutely right for we Ismailis, we believe that ginans are the interpretation of Quran and therefore we don't need any interpretation of Quran and that is why "AGAKHAN" in your word but MHI for me and other readers does not make interpretation of Quran.

We ???? who is we here ??? So you're saying if I take one simple verse from the holy quran and tell you to show its ginanic interpretation would you do that ???

FYI: There are thousand and thousand interpretation available of Quran now a days, made by many scholars in many languages but till today you can't find any Ismaili scholar made interpretation of Quran not in only English but in any language!!!, is not surprise you? is not proof that we Ismaili don't need any interpretation of Quran because our ginans are sufficient for us??!

I asked one simple question @ above in bold letters.....If you think that if i can copy/paste an aayat from the holy quran and you can show its ginanic interpretation then lets do it !!!

Lets see if ginans are really/truely the actual interpretation of holy quran

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:12 pm

We have the living Quran. What else to say.

Oh come on admin bhai, I did expect this atleast from you !!!

Anyways the job of this living quran is to guide the misguided....where as most of the times we see that the guided are often sued and forced to be misguided.....Do i have to say more ?

I remember a Bohra once published an "Ismaili" translation of the Quran, he almost got crucified by extremist, he had to withdraw his translation and replace it by a Sunni translation.... Shakir was the name and the place of publication was New York.

Well you just said @ above that you have living quran.....isnt it mentioned in holy quran that people wanna shun this light but allah[swt] will guard his light AKA quran /LIVING QURAN

......then who is stopping the agakhan who is the living quran from doing whats right for the whole mankind ??

Who's gonna attack or mess with the vicar of god after he interpret the whole quran when god himself promised to protect it from anything or everything ??

something to think about !!!!!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Thu May 05, 2011 4:16 pm

shiraz.virani wrote: Im sorry I should have added "most ismailis" in my previous posts.....Majority of ismailis are taught that ginans are the actual tarjuma of quran which I personally think is incorrect !

Below are the words of the Imam himself on this issue which are accepted by most Ismailis.

"If there were such faithful people among you who had read the Quran-e Shariff and were well versed in Ginans as well, I would show each and every verse of the Ginans in the Quran-e Shariff so that they may explain to you. Alas, there is no such person."

- Imam SMS, Source: KIM, I:89 (quoted by Ali Asani in his TUI
handout)

"The Ginans that Pir Sadardin has bestowed upon you are the quintessence of the Quran-e Shariff."
- Imam SMS, Source: Jangbar, July 5, 1899 (quoted by Ali Asani in
his TUI handout)

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Thu May 05, 2011 4:30 pm

shiraz.virani wrote: Well you just said @ above that you have living quran.....isnt it mentioned in holy quran that people wanna shun this light but allah[swt] will guard his light AKA quran /LIVING QURAN ......then who is stopping the agakhan who is the living quran from doing whats right for the whole mankind ??

The Tafsir is contained in his speeches and interviews for everyone. The Tafsir for the Jamat is contained in the Farmans and the Ginans.

Hence the Imam always provides guidance when required even on matters that are not mentioned in the Qur'an.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu May 05, 2011 4:36 pm

"If there were such faithful people among you who had read the Quran-e Shariff and were well versed in Ginans as well, I would show each and every verse of the Ginans in the Quran-e Shariff so that they may explain to you. Alas, there is no such person."

- Imam SMS, Source: KIM, I:89 (quoted by Ali Asani in his TUI
handout)

1st of all I would like to thank you maherali bhai for providing us @ above firman.....But sultan muhammed shah havent answered the question here !!.....He said only if there were people....well how can people get well versed in quran e sharif ?? Well the answer is when the aalim[teacher/imam] teaches them the real interpretation of the quran.

And I think there are few ismailis in this world who have memorised quran e shareef ......is it not the job of the imam to ensure that every ismaili memorise the holy quran and its interpretation by heart ??

When you take quran and ginan and if you keep it side by side its like a mudslide where holy quran teaches us islam and ginans teach us hindu mythology.

Iam not saying ginans are fake or anything....Im just saying they are more imaginary situations involved in ginan rather than quran as and whole....If the shah/pir can make our life easier by interpreting the holy book why waste our time on imagining things when we have a physical and a very practical imam among us ???

"The Ginans that Pir Sadardin has bestowed upon you are the quintessence of the Quran-e Shariff."
- Imam SMS, Source: Jangbar, July 5, 1899 (quoted by Ali Asani in
his TUI handout)

But this is what iam saying maherali bhai....If i take surah fatiha for example and wants its tarjuma from ginans how do i do that ?? Bcoz in our ginans just like our dua only 1st and last part matches that of quran and rest are all additions !!!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Thu May 05, 2011 5:32 pm

shiraz.virani wrote: And I think there are few ismailis in this world who have memorised quran e shareef ......is it not the job of the imam to ensure that every ismaili memorise the holy quran and its interpretation by heart ??

It is not practical for every murid to memorize the Qur'an by heart. That is the reason we have been given Ginans which comprise the quintessence of the Qur'an. As I said earlier, all the essential guidance and interpretation is given in the Farmans and Ginans for the murids.

However there will arise individuals who will be motivated to memorize and study the Qur'an (at least parts of it). These individuals will be supported by our institutions so that their studies can benefit the Jamat.

shiraz.virani wrote: When you take quran and ginan and if you keep it side by side its like a mudslide where holy quran teaches us islam and ginans teach us hindu mythology.!

Are you saying Islam did not exist before Prophet Muhammad? If it did, what form did it have. Our Ginans tell us that Islam is eternal and has always existed. Hindu mythology correctly interpreted is Islamic.

shiraz.virani wrote: But this is what iam saying maherali bhai....If i take surah fatiha for example and wants its tarjuma from ginans how do i do that ?? Bcoz in our ginans just like our dua only 1st and last part matches that of quran and rest are all additions !!!

You will have to know all the Ginans and their meanings in order for you to do that...

The translations of the important verses (especially those in the Dua} are available from the ITREB.

lozar · Post by **lozar** » Fri May 06, 2011 12:45 am

I think the purpose of the Holy books is to GUIDE people. And Imam is issuing farmans with the SAME purpose in accordince with the time. So what else you, sheeraz virani

are expecting? If you don't have access to farmans, then it is a different issue.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:48 am

Shiraz,

Again and again, why are you focusing on only one topics incomplete and changed Quran? it has been discussed many times in this web site and in many topics that Quran is not complete brother, you can not find answer of all the questions arising right now in quran, (FOR A QICK EXAMPLE FOR YOU, ABORTION, DONATING ORGANS, RENTING WOMB FOR SOMEONE ELSE CHILD, TUBE BABY E.T.C. THESE QUESTIONS ARE ARISING NOW A DAYS AND YOU WILL NOT FIND THE ANSWERS OF THESE QUESTION IN QURAN) this topics has been discussed earlier and many time so please go back read it again.
For Ismaili Quran is not enough, so that Ismailis always welcomed ginans, Farmans, and hadith in adition of Quran that doesn't mean that Ismailis are not believing in quran of course they do but they have 'BOLTU [SPEAKING] QURAN WITH THEM IN IMAM, SO THAT THEY MORE RELY ON IMAM'S FARMANS RATHER THEN OUTDATED QURAN'

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:26 am

brother lozar said :

I think the purpose of the Holy books is to GUIDE people. And Imam is issuing farmans with the SAME purpose in accordince with the time. So what else you, sheeraz virani are expecting? If you don't have access to farmans, then it is a different issue.

Brother lozar , I have 2 volumes of agakhans firman all the way from 1957 till if iam not mistaken 2000 .....But what is shocking is in all the firmans all he talks about is customs, bad habits, education and few things that are meant for physical satisfaction.....what about spirituality ??? There is not even one firman where he talks in detail about his own madhab, spirituality, if ginans are tarjuma how is it so , if chanta is done in which surah it is mentioned and much much more.

If admin allows me i dont mind scanning the whooooooole book and publish it here.....now there can be two things why this might have happened

1] either imam is busy upgrading our physical and social lives or
2] the firmans have been carefully edited

Btw...the above person who have taken the council to court wants the interpretation of quran which he specifically mentioned and not matching firmans....bcoz as per alnaz jiwa case....any firman can be called invalid by the imam or his FAITHFUL servants at any point of time

thank god , even though alnaz bhai lost atleast he clarified the doubts of the jamat i.e DONT ASK, DONT TELL

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri May 06, 2011 12:38 pm

Again and again, why are you focusing on only one topics incomplete and changed Quran?

Agakhani bhai , did I ever stopped you from any kind of worship be it stone or any form of idol worship ??? NO !!!!

I told you last time....you believe in what you want to and I shall believe what I will !!! .......Both admin bhai and maherali bhai always come up with logical answers that make me stop and think ...why dont you do the same ??

See, Iam wayyyyy tooo young than all of you which mean Im still learning....A person is bound to make mistakes in his research .....you may be right or you may be wrong...but unless and until you go in much detail you would never know !!

For me the holy book quran can never ever be incomplete as the god himself mentioned in the very same book that he himself will protect this book from forgery which he did !!!

it has been discussed many times in this web site and in many topics that Quran is not complete brother, you can not find answer of all the questions arising right now in quran, (FOR A QICK EXAMPLE FOR YOU, ABORTION, DONATING ORGANS, RENTING WOMB FOR SOMEONE ELSE CHILD, TUBE BABY E.T.C. THESE QUESTIONS ARE ARISING NOW A DAYS AND YOU WILL NOT FIND THE ANSWERS OF THESE QUESTION IN QURAN) this topics has been discussed earlier and many time so please go back read it again.

I have already clarified your doubts in other forum regarding above, if you dont wanna pay attention to it then its your fault and not quran as quran is wayyyy pure than you own SOUL

Abortion : http://www.islamawareness.net/FamilyPla ... tion3.html

Surah 17:31 warns :“Kill not your children for fear of want. We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin.”

There are various methods with which you can control this i.e condoms,creams and much more !! ...theres a saying "its better to be safe than worried"

Donating Organs :

Donating organs is not all on one level. There is the donation of organs on which life depends, and there is the donation of organs on which life does not completely depend upon.

If the donation is of an organ on which life depends, such as the heart or liver, it is not permissible to donate it, according to the consensus of the scholars, because that is killing a soul.

But if it is an organ on which life does not depend, such as a kidney or blood vessels.....For ex: if you donate 2 bottles worth of blood will you die ??? This is the rehmat of allah where human body can generate blood......but say for example your heart stops pumping blood, can you generate a brand new heart ??? NO !!!!.....You dont need any book when it comes to this matter....you have to apply logic brother

The great sultan muhammad shah in his memoirs said : Human body is the temple of god !!!!

Plus in the very same book allah[swt] clearly said that " if you save the life of one human its like saving a life of the whole mankind "

Test tube baby :
Lemme take you back to the story of bibi mariyam.....how did she got impregnated ??? She was a virgin right ?? Did allah used this so called test tube baby on her ??

Lemme take you back to the time of H.Ibrahim[as]....He and his wife were aged when god promised them that H.Ibrahim[as] would become the father

God wanted to show his power and that he did by bestowing a virgin/old man with a baby....so when allah[swt] can give this rehmat to a virgin/old man what makes you think he cant give this rehmat to someone else ?? Well you have to remember that lifes a test !! He might test you with anything and everything !!!

Stop being ignorant agakhani bhai because this is the 2nd time iam trying to explain this to you in the light of holy quran.

Plus iam not against test tube baby provided the male sperms used in this process is that of a father/husband and not the third person

For Ismaili Quran is not enough, so that Ismailis always welcomed ginans, Farmans, and hadith in adition of Quran that doesn't mean that Ismailis are not believing in quran of course they do but they have 'BOLTU [SPEAKING] QURAN WITH THEM IN IMAM, SO THAT THEY MORE RELY ON IMAM'S FARMANS RATHER THEN OUTDATED QURAN'

Had this been the case imam wouldnt have found himself at the backseat of this pouring cases day after day which will only grow until the imam takes his stand and say enough !!!

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri May 06, 2011 1:53 pm

It is not practical for every murid to memorize the Qur'an by heart. That is the reason we have been given Ginans which comprise the quintessence of the Qur'an. As I said earlier, all the essential guidance and interpretation is given in the Farmans and Ginans for the murids.

However there will arise individuals who will be motivated to memorize and study the Qur'an (at least parts of it). These individuals will be supported by our institutions so that their studies can benefit the Jamat.

Thank you once again maherali bhai for your valuable comments !!....Lets just for a second forget about this case and focus as to what we as the jamat can do in order to create this awareness i.e of holy quran, ginans,firmans and so on.....Is there anyway that a special programme be launched so as to teach our jamat holy quran in the light of ginans....Not chanting and stuff iam saying like take the verse from the quran and interpret it in the light of ginans ??

If we as the jamat can do it ....this would be wonderful as majority of youths these days [including me] are more inclined on shariah....this would be the best way to teach faith and the importance of ginans at the same time.....Is there anyway we as the jamat can start this ???

Are you saying Islam did not exist before Prophet Muhammad? If it did, what form did it have. Our Ginans tell us that Islam is eternal and has always existed. Hindu mythology correctly interpreted is Islamic.

I never said islam wasnt there before rasool[saw]....The holy quran was dictated by our rasool[saw] but according to holy quran it did not originate with rasool[saw]

The holy quran even accepts the previous scriptures that were sent down by allah[swt] himself...but nowhere in quran do we hear,read or see the name of vedas,granths or anything related to hinduism.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:24 pm

shiraz.virani wrote: Thank you once again maherali bhai for your valuable comments !!....Lets just for a second forget about this case and focus as to what we as the jamat can do in order to create this awareness i.e of holy quran, ginans,firmans and so on.....Is there anyway that a special programme be launched so as to teach our jamat holy quran in the light of ginans....Not chanting and stuff iam saying like take the verse from the quran and interpret it in the light of ginans ??

That would be a useful project for the Jamat. I agree with you....

shiraz.virani wrote: The holy quran even accepts the previous scriptures that were sent down by allah[swt] himself...but nowhere in quran do we hear,read or see the name of vedas,granths or anything related to hinduism.

This is the statement of MSMS in his memoirs....

"Muslims indeed know no limitation merely to the Prophets of Israel; they are ready to admit that there were similar Divinely inspired messengers in other countries Gautama Buddha, Shri Krishna and Shri Ram in India, Socrates in Greece, the wise man of China and many other sages and saints among peoples and civilizations, trace of which we have lost. Thus man's soul has never been left without a specially inspired messenger from the soul that sustains, embraces and is the universe."

Of course it would be impossible to mention all the prophets and messengers in the Qur'an. However references to the previous prophets is given in the verses below.

But how many were the prophets We sent amongst the peoples of old? (43:6)

"If we had a reminder as had the men of old (before the coming of Prophet Muhammad SAW as a Messenger of Allâh). (37:168)

Bloglaw · Post by **Bloglaw** » Sat May 07, 2011 5:21 am

shiraz.virani wrote:Very well said blog !!!

[On what basis is the person or a council member selected ?? Is it based on his qualification ?? Is is based on his income ?? Is it based on his religious education ? Or all the above ?? ]

[I hope and pray that this poor guy who filed this case is not harassed by the jamati members who spit gutkha on the walls of jamatkhana and yet wanna be the saviour of faith when it comes to logic !!!

ALL and more. The process as directed by Hazar Imam is meritocratic. However it is not followed in practice. The process for strategic and Imam appointments is; Every 3 years, the present appointee suggests some nominees. Their Chairman can change and add more names. Then 3 names are selected by the Chairman in order of preference, which are then discussed with the National President, who also can add a nominee. The process is supposed to ensure there are no duplications, the best nominee is selected, and the same names are not recycled. Then the President discusses the final 3 nominees with DJI (Dr Sahedina and his inner circle). The person agreed by them is appointed nationally. Where a position is an Imam appointment a nominee they select is presented to Hazar Imam for approval. Imam rarely refuses a nomination. Leaders down the line are not informed who the final 3 nominees are and who is the person selected by the National President from the 3. Not forgeting and very critical and strategic, the appointees on the Boards of the many Imamat institutional and commecial enterprises which control and manage billions of dollars, and Jobs.

The secrecy has enabled and empowered Sachedina and the inner circle to excercise and increase autocracy at the expense of transparency, openness and meritocracy, which is what Imam wishes and reminds us regularly.

Any one who asks or speaks up even though this is what Imam wishes, are harrassed and marginalised as in the case of Alnaz and Nagib. The reason many are not, is because they are afraid of marginalisation or of loosing some benefits, or income because they are working for or doing business with our institutions. Until the lawsuit against Alnaz and Nagib , there was no evidence. There now is evidence that Sachedina and his inner circle are not sharing or following and respecting Imam's wishes.

If we wnat change It is also our responsibility to ensure that the Leaders are Sharing, respecting and following imam's Farmans and Guidance not only spiritually but also materially where Imam wishes us to benefit from and work in and with our many institutions and enterprises around the world.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat May 07, 2011 9:30 am

Lemme take you back to the time of H.Ibrahim[as]....He and his wife were aged when god promised them that H.Ibrahim[as] would become the father

Allah can do anything he is 'KADIR MUKTALIK" but we are discussing about Quran, but Allah's ability to do any thing doen't mean that Quran has every answer you have , let believe that Quran has every answer of any question for a moment then the Islamic countries which strictly follows Quran should not have any question and problems any more because they can find the answer form Quran of their any question and problems !! am I right? but look around in the whole world they have more problems then other countries and other sects right now and they are the most problematic countries and wandered sects in the world.

By the way I read your above explanations carefully but it is not satisfactory to make me believe that Quran has all the answer which are arising now, nope bro, at least not for me, sorry, good try though, you need to read the event of 'GHADIR-E-KHUM' one more time and hopefully you will find the answer over there that IMAM should be present on the earth all the time without lapse or gap.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat May 07, 2011 10:51 am

shiraz.virani wrote: Brother lozar , I have 2 volumes of agakhans firman all the way from 1957 till if iam not mistaken 2000 .....But what is shocking is in all the firmans all he talks about is customs, bad habits, education and few things that are meant for physical satisfaction.....what about spirituality ??? There is not even one firman where he talks in detail about his own madhab, spirituality, if ginans are tarjuma how is it so , if chanta is done in which surah it is mentioned and much much more.

Some of our traditions are timeless and in that sense have been explained and articulated by our Imams, Pirs and Dais in the past. There is no reason for the present Imam to repeat that. However the Imam always emphasizes the need to study parts of the the Qur'an, Ginans and the thoughts and works of our Dais of the past so as to gain a deeper understanding of our faith and wisdom.

Are you saying that all the Muslim practices are derived from the Qur'an? Is the form of the Namaz and wuzu prescribed in the Qur'an? As I mentioned before, our faith predates the Qur'an and in this sense some of our traditions go back thousands of years, so you may not find everything about our tradition in the Qur'an.

To get a better understanding of Imamat and our faith, I would recommend you to read the references mentioned at:

Doctrines --> Where To Start?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... shan+nasir

www.ismaili.net

Some lawsuit in India on Tariqah matter?

Some lawsuit in India on Tariqah matter?

Some lawsuit in India

Lawsuit in Mumbai

What a pity??!!!

Seeking Guidance from Hazar Imam and to work together