Salam Alaikum,
I am from the Twelver faith. I, as well as you, I am sure, know that internet debates are always fruitless and end up only wasting time, so I feel it would be best to avoid that. Rather, I have some questions about the Ismaili faith that I would be grateful if you could answer.
1. Whai is the Ismaili rebuttal to the hadith of the twelve successors? i.e.
'The Prophet said: "There will be after me twelve Amir (Prince/Ruler), all of them from Quraysh'
This hadith is probably the most documented hadith is Islamic history, narrated in scores of shia and sunni books including:
# ^ Sahih Bukhari 89.329
# ^ Sahih Muslim : Book 020: Number 4477, 4478, 4480, 4481, 4482, 4483
# ^ Sunan Abu Dawood : Book 36: Number 4266
# ^ Sunan al-Tirmidhi (Arabic) Chapter of Fitan,
2:45 (India) and 4:501 Tradition # 2225 (Egypt)
Hadith #2149 (numbering of al-'Alamiyyah)
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 1, pg 398
# Musnad-e-Tayalesi, vol 3, pg 105 Tr. No 767 and vol 6, pg 180 Tr. No 1278, published at Hyderabad, India in 1321 A.H
# ^ Al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 258, Tr. No. 1964
# ^ Al-Fetan, vol. 1, pg 39, Chap 7, Tr. No. 2
# ^ Al-Malaahem wa al-Fetan pg 32, chap 29
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 93
# ^ Sunan Abi Dawood, Kitab al-Mahdi
# ^ Taarikh-e-Baghdad, vol 12, pg 126, No. 516
# ^ Al-Bidaaya wa al-Nihaayah, vol 1, pg 18
# ^ Al-Mojam Al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 214, Tr. No. 1792 and 1793
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 92
# ^ Kanz al-Ummaal, vol 12, pg 33, Tr. no 33860 narrating from Tabraani and Tr. No. 33803, narrating from Tirmidhi
# ^ Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Kitab al-Fetan, Chap 46, Tr. No. 2223
# ^ Tarikh-e-Baghdad vol 14, pg 353, No. 7673
# ^ Al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 236. Tr. No. 1875 and pg 248, tr. No. 1923 and pg 251, Tr. No 1936 and pg. 283 Tr. No. 2063 and vol 2, pg 215, Tr. No 1799.
# ^ Al-Ghaibah of No'mani, pg 123 chap 6, Tr. No 14, and pg 120, Chap 6, Tr. No. 8
# ^ Kifaayaa al-Asar, pg 50, Chap 6, Tr. No. 2
# ^ Nihaayah al-bidaayah wa al-Nihaayah vol 1, pg 17
# ^ Yanaabi al-Mawaddah, Chap 77, pg 445
# ^ Al-Mawaddah al-Qurbah, pg 215
# ^ Kashf al-Yaqeen, chap 2, pg 71
# ^ Al-Ghaibah by No'maani pg 120, Chap 6, Tr. No. 8
# ^ Kifaayah al-Asar, pg 27, Chap 2, Tr. No 5 and pg 76, Chap 8, Tr. no. 6 and pg 77, Chap 8, Tr. No. 7 and pg 78, Chap 8, Tr. No. 9
# ^ Behaar al-Anwwar, vol 36, chap 41, pg 282, Tr. No 103 and vol 36, Chap 41, pg 255, Tr. No. 72 and vol 36, pg 311, Chap 41, Tr. No. 153-156
# ^ Al-Insaaf, Tr. No. 129 and pg 292, Tr. No. 264 and Tr. No. 127
# ^ Kamaal al-Deen, vol 1, pg 279, Chap 24, Tr. No. 26
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 106
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 87
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 93, 96, 98
# ^ Al-Ghaibah by No'maani, pg 116, chap 6, Tr. No. 17
# ^ Sahih Muslim, Kitaab al-Imaarah
# ^ Kanz al-Ummaal, vol 12, pg 32, Tr. No. 33850
# ^ Al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 213, Tr. No 1791 and vol 2, pg 214, Tr. No 1795
# ^ Tarikh al-Khulafaa, The chapter of the duration of the Caliphs, pg 7
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 97
# ^ al-Malaahem by Ibn al-Munaadi, pg 113
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 107
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg. 97
# ^ Sahih al-Muslim, Kitab al-Imaarah
# ^ Al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 228, Tr. No. 1849, and Tr. No. 1850 and Tr. No. 1851
# ^ al-Malaahim by ibn Munaadi, pg 112
# ^ Firdaus al-Akhbaar, vol 5, pg 7705
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 86
# ^ al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 218, Tr. No. 1808
# ^ Lawaame' al-Uqool, vol 5, pg 150
# ^ al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 215, Tr. No. 1798
# ^ Sahih al-Muslim, Kitab al-Imaarah
# ^ Al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 285, Tr. No. 2068 and 2069
# ^ Kefaayah al-Asar, pg 51, Chap 6, Tr. No. 3
# ^ Behaar al-Anwaar, vol 36
# ^ Al-Taraaef, pg 168-172
# ^ Al-Khesaal, pg 469-473. Tr. No 12-30
# ^ Al-Umdah by Ibn Bitreeq
# ^ E'laam al-Waraa by Tabarsi
# ^ Sahih al-Muslim, Kitab al-Imaarah
# ^ Mukhtasar al-sahih al-Muslim by Tirmidhi, Tr. No. 1196
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 89
# ^ Musnad-e-Abi Ya'laa, vol 13, pg 456, Tr. No. 23(7463)
# ^ al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 218. Tr. No. 1809 and vol 2, pg 216. Tr. No. 1801
# ^ Kanz al-Ummaal vol 12, pg 32, Tr. No. 33855
# ^ al-Ghaibah by No'mani, pg 120, part 6, Tr No. 9 and pg 119, Chap 6, Tr. no. 6
# ^ Behaar al-Anwaar vol 36, pg 281, Chap 41, Tr. No. 102
# ^ al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 214. Tr. No. 1794
# ^ al-mo'jam al-Awsat, vol 3, pg 437, Tr. No. 2943
# ^ Kanz al-Ummaal vol 12, pg 33, Tr. No. 33858
# ^ al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 215. Tr. No. 1796
# ^ Kanz al-Ummaal vol 12, pg 33, Tr. No. 33852
# ^ Lawaame al-Uqool, vol 5, pg 151
# ^ al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 238. Tr. No. 1883
# ^ al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 215. Tr. No. 1797 and vol 2, pg 226, Tr. No. 1841
# ^ Kanz al-Ummaal vol 12, pg 33, Tr. No. 33853
# ^ Al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain, Kitaab-o-Ma'refat al-Sahaabaa, vol 3, pg 317-617
# ^ al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 282. Tr. No. 2059
# ^ Kanz al-Ummaal vol 12, pg 32, Tr. No. 33848
# ^ al-Bidaaya wa al-Nihaaya, vol 1, pg 17
# ^ al-Ghaibah of No'maani, pg 119, Chap 6, Tr No. 7
# ^ al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, pg 286. Tr. No. 2073
# ^ Majmaa az-Zawaaed, vol 5, pg 191, Chapter, 'The Caliphs are Twelve'. The author of Muntakhab al Asar says, "Tabraani in his al-Mo'jam al-Kabeer, vol 2, has brought this tradition of Jaabir from thirty-seven chain of narrators. It is clear that Jaabir has heard the tradition concerning the twelve caliphs on more than one occasion from the Messenger of Allah lke the eve of the stoning of Al-Aslami, in the last pilgrimage at Arafaah, when he went to the Prophet along with his father and when he heard the Prophet delivering a sermon in the mosque.
# ^ Kamaal al-Deen, vol 1, pg 272, Chap 24, Tr. No 21
# ^ Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 1, pg 398
# ^ Kanz al-Ummaal, vol 12, pg 33, Tr. no. 33857
# ^ Muntakhab Kanz al-Ummaal, vol 5, pg 312
# ^ Taarikh al-Khulafaa, pg 7
# ^ Majma al-Zawaaed, vol 5, pg 190 (The Chapter of Twelve)
# ^ Al-Mataaleb al-Aaliyah, vol 2, pg 196. Tr. No. 2040-2041
# ^ Al-Durr al-Manthoor by Jalaaluddin al-Suyuti under the Quranic verse, "And We raised amongst them twelve chiefs" (Surah Maaedah 5:12)
# ^ Mutashaabehaat al-Quran vol 2, pg 53
# ^ Yanaabi al-Mawaddah, pg 258
# ^ Mustadrak al-Sahihain, vol 4, pg 501
# ^ Musnad Abi Ya'laa, vol 8, pg 444, Tr. no 65 (5031), vol 9, pg 222, Tr. no 356 (5322)
# ^ Mutazab al-Asar pg 3, Tr. No. 1
# ^ Isbaat al-Hudaat (by Shaikh Hurr al-Aameli), vol 3, pg 196
# ^ Al-Ghaibah of No'maani, pg 118, Tr. No 5
# ^ Kefaayah al-Asar, pg 23, Chap 2, Tr. No. 2 and pg 25, Chap 2, Tr. No. 3
# ^ Behaar al-Anwaar, vol 36, Chap 41, pg 229, Tr. No 8 narrating from al-Uyoon, al-Khesaal, kamaal al-Deen, al-Lawaame' al-Elaahiyyah, pg 286
# ^ Al-Malaahem by Ibn Al-Munaadi, pg 113
# ^ Mustadrak Alaa al-Sahihain, vol 3, pg 618
# ^ Kanz al-Ummaal, vol 12, pg 33, Tr. No. 33849
# ^ Majma al-Zawaaed, vol 5, pg 190
# ^ Al-Intinsaar fi Naas Al-Aimmah al-Athaar, pg 25
# ^ Akhbaar Isbahaan vol 2, pg 176 The Chapter of Meem
# ^ Kanz al-Ummaal, vol 12, pg 34, Tr. No. 3386
# ^ Kash al-Astaar, part 1, pg 99 narrating from al-Ebaanah
# ^ E'laam al-Waraa pg 384
# ^ Muqtazab al-Asar, pg 3-4
# ^ Manaaqeb of ibn Shar Aashob, vol 1, pg 290
# ^ Behaar al-Anwaar vol 36, pg 267, Chap 41, Tr. No. 87
# ^ Al-Insaaf, pg 361
2. What is the Ismaili belief on infallibility. Is your current living Imam infallible and sinless as the Prophet Mohammed (sawa) was?
3. What proof or evudence is there to suggest that the Imamate by-passed Hasan bn Ali bn Abi Talib and went straight to Imam Hussain. Are there any narrations in which Imam Hussain assumed the Imamate while his older brother Hasan was still alive? Are there any narrations stating that Hasan was less capable than Hussain at leading? Particularly with extremely well documented narrations from the Prophet stating that, for example '[both] Hasan and Husain are the masters of the youth of paradise'.
Many thanks. I look forward to hearing your answers so I can understand more about the Ismaili faith.
Questions about the Ismaili faith
If it is quoted in Quran let us know the Ayats #!!!
Walekum Asllam, Twelver,
Welcome in this forum, this topic has been discussed many time in this website but I can not stop myself to write little bit here before some one block this topic.
First of all we believe in Quran but we do not accept Hadiths as a reliable sources to find something special and controversial issues like Imamat, Caliphates, I find many differences in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim and so on they does not match with each other in many hadiths, you can find some hadiths which matches or tally with each other but not all.
Also hadiths has been changed many times in past and may be not all Hadiths are true, for instead example lets take Abu Hurera he just lived with as a Prophet Mohammed's sahaba just (companion of Rasool )only 3.5 years but he wrote thousands and thousands hadiths in this short period, which any normal human being can not believe or accept because it is not possible to write 5374 hadith for Abu Hurera or anybody else nobody can write thousands hadiths in just only 3.5 years, so obviously his some hadiths may not true or not acceptable as a solid proof, PLUS ABU HURERA LIED MANY TIMES IN HIS HADITHS you can find this lie easily if you read Abu Hurera's all hadiths read it buddy and I bet you, you will definitely agree with me you will surely find some unbelievable and unacceptable hadiths from him, which you or nobody else can digest easily but Sunny Ulemas consider him as a reliable suhaba.
Please note that there are many Hadiths which I can not say it is not reliable and not trustworthy.
Quran also changed many times, but it is still reliable holy book so, if you provide me the name of Sura and Ayats number in which Allahtala mention about 12th Imams or Caliphs then I will double check it and will post my humble reply here. As per my little knowledge there is no sura or any ayats which mention about 12 Imams, but you can find many ayats on continuation of Imamat.( not just only till 12th Imams or 29th Imams but till the Qayamat) and Rasoolullah clearly mentioned about the continuation of rope of a Imamat and Quran during the event of Gadir-e-Khum.
FYI Imamat will continue till the day of judgement/ Qayamat, this universe can not stay even a second if there is no Imam present on this earth, this is our Ismaili belief.
Welcome in this forum, this topic has been discussed many time in this website but I can not stop myself to write little bit here before some one block this topic.
First of all we believe in Quran but we do not accept Hadiths as a reliable sources to find something special and controversial issues like Imamat, Caliphates, I find many differences in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim and so on they does not match with each other in many hadiths, you can find some hadiths which matches or tally with each other but not all.
Also hadiths has been changed many times in past and may be not all Hadiths are true, for instead example lets take Abu Hurera he just lived with as a Prophet Mohammed's sahaba just (companion of Rasool )only 3.5 years but he wrote thousands and thousands hadiths in this short period, which any normal human being can not believe or accept because it is not possible to write 5374 hadith for Abu Hurera or anybody else nobody can write thousands hadiths in just only 3.5 years, so obviously his some hadiths may not true or not acceptable as a solid proof, PLUS ABU HURERA LIED MANY TIMES IN HIS HADITHS you can find this lie easily if you read Abu Hurera's all hadiths read it buddy and I bet you, you will definitely agree with me you will surely find some unbelievable and unacceptable hadiths from him, which you or nobody else can digest easily but Sunny Ulemas consider him as a reliable suhaba.
Please note that there are many Hadiths which I can not say it is not reliable and not trustworthy.
Quran also changed many times, but it is still reliable holy book so, if you provide me the name of Sura and Ayats number in which Allahtala mention about 12th Imams or Caliphs then I will double check it and will post my humble reply here. As per my little knowledge there is no sura or any ayats which mention about 12 Imams, but you can find many ayats on continuation of Imamat.( not just only till 12th Imams or 29th Imams but till the Qayamat) and Rasoolullah clearly mentioned about the continuation of rope of a Imamat and Quran during the event of Gadir-e-Khum.
FYI Imamat will continue till the day of judgement/ Qayamat, this universe can not stay even a second if there is no Imam present on this earth, this is our Ismaili belief.
Re: Questions about the Ismaili faith
Wa Alaykum Salaam,Twelver wrote:
2. What is the Ismaili belief on infallibility. Is your current living Imam infallible and sinless as the Prophet Mohammed (sawa) was?
3. What proof or evudence is there to suggest that the Imamate by-passed Hasan bn Ali bn Abi Talib and went straight to Imam Hussain. Are there any narrations in which Imam Hussain assumed the Imamate while his older brother Hasan was still alive? Are there any narrations stating that Hasan was less capable than Hussain at leading? Particularly with extremely well documented narrations from the Prophet stating that, for example '[both] Hasan and Husain are the masters of the youth of paradise'.
Many thanks. I look forward to hearing your answers so I can understand more about the Ismaili faith.
The Constitution which provides the basis of governance of our Jamat states:
"B) In accordance with Shia doctrine, tradition, and interpretation of history, the Holy Prophet (S.A.S.) designated and appointed his cousin and son-in-law Hazrat Mawlana Ali Amiru-l-Mu'minin (Alayhi-s-salam), to be the first Imam to continue the Ta'wil and Ta'lim of Allah's final message and to guide the murids, and proclaimed that the Imamat should continue by heredity through Hazrat Mawlana Ali (A.S.) and his daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatimat-az-Zahra, Khatun-i-Jannat Alayha-s-salam).
(C) Succession to Imamat is by way of Nass,it being the absolute prerogative of the Imam of the time to appoint his successor from amongst any of his male descendants whether they be sons or remoter issue."
The Imam provides us with the authoritative Ta'wil and Ta'lim and hence in respect to his guidance to his murids, he is infallible. The Noor of Imamat is pure and infallible.
There is discussion on the issue of Imamat after Hazarat Ali at:
Pre-fatimid --> Hasan ibn Ali Questions
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 43&start=0
Please go through the discussion and if there are questions do not hesitate to ask.
Not all Hadith.
Code: Select all
Just to clarify, the Ismaili sect REJECT the hadith of the twelve successors. They also REJECT all hadiths regarding the Mahdi?As per Ismaili doctrine Imamat will continue till the day of judgement and Imam should be present all the time on earth.
About the Imam Mehdi your's doctrine is that he is an actual historical personality and is the current Imam and the promised Mahdi, a messianic figure who will return with the Messiah, Jesus Christ. He will reestablish the rightful governance of Islam and replete the earth with justice and peace,
but according our ginanic literature, we believe that one of day our Imam will come forward and will fight with devil force and reestablish peace and justice on this earth, But the other hand other religions also has their own beliefs Twelver Shia says he will be Imam Mehdi, Christian says he will be Jesus Christ, Hindu says "Nakalanki Avtar" we Ismailis believe he will one of our Imam, whatever name we all give him but he will fight with devil forces and reestablish peace on earth that is for sure, when? nobody knows ,but in our ginans there are some hints and prediction about his "ZAHURAT'.
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HassanHJamal
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:37 pm
Twelver
Dear Twelver,
You got the answer to your question from "Agakhani" and KMaherali. They are refering to you about our "ginanic" explanations and other "Ismaili" doctrines, which I believe, means nothing to you because our faith of Islam is about 1432 years old. It's a very very long time.
But in order for you to get the satisfactory answer that you are aimed at, you will have to go back to the times of our Beloved Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). As a Shi'ia believers both, Ismailis and the Twelvers, recognize and accept the events that took place at the intersection of "Gadir-e-Khum" during our beloved Prophet's last pilgrimage to Mecca and the Revelation that the Prophet received from Allah-Ta'la to convey to, not only the caravan of 100/125 thousand people that accompanied Him but to the entire Muslim Ummah, and after the transmission of the message the Prophet raised the hand of Hazrat Ali to announce His successor after His physical death. Because there was no such thing as Ismailis and Isna Assharies. You and I had only one "Faith" the Shi'ia Faith
in other words we were together. Short time later, as you know, our Beloved Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) passed away and there was a division in Islam, the Shi'ias and the Sunnis. The Prophethood ended.
Our Shi'ia sect continued with Hazrat Ali as our first Imam of the Shi'as.
Hazrat Ali had two sons, Hazrat Imam Hassan and Hazrat Imam Hussein.
Only one of these two sons could be an IMAM, there would not be TWO IMAMS at the same time. One IMAM and One PROPHET. Therefore, it is our Ismaili doctrine that Hazrat Imam Hassan was performing the duties of our Beloved Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) and was later killed by his own wife by putting poison in his food, instigated by the MUAIVIYA & YEZID of the Umayyad Caliphs, and when our first Imam Hazrat Ali (A.S.) was assassinated in the Mosque of Kufa (Iraq) Hazrat Imam Hussein assumed the duties of Imamate, as you know it, he went to fight the battle of Karbala knowing very well the outcome of this battle, yet he went and was assassinated in Karbala. Hazrat Imam Hussein's son Imam Zainulabidin assumed the duties of Imamate who was also killed by our enimies, then Imam Zainulabidin's son Imam Muhammad-din Baqir assumed the duties of Imamate who was also killed, then his son Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq assumed the duties of Imamate. We were together upto here with little difference in interpretation that Imam Jaffer-a-Saduq was 5th Imam for Ismailis and for Twelver's was the 6th Imam. I will repeat again that there will never be TWO Imams at the same time and moment.
Now, our Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq has had threats of his life and knew that He will be killed too, so he announced publicly that after Him the successor to the Imamate will be his older son ISMAIL. Ismail also had threats for his life so Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq asked his son Ismail to secretly leave the Arabia Peninsula and go to SYRIA, which he did.
The Noor of Hazrat Ali (A.S.) which we the Shi'ia believe in, is transcended from one Imam to another, the receiving Imam knows immediately that my father has passed away and the "Noor" of Hazrat Ali has come in me, in other words he is the holder of the Noor of Hazrat Ali.
Probably you know, as Twelver, how our Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq was killed. There were many enimies at that time. Some members of the ABBASID CALIPH kept friendly relations with our Imam's families and secretly they were our enimies. They send to Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq some grapes soaked with poison for him to eat. Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq told to the person who brought these poisoned grapes that "I know your intension in bringing me these grapes and I will eat it" at least the person who brought the grapes knew that the Imam knows the intension behind those grapes, yet Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq ate it and next day he physically passed away.
After the passing away of our Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq, his older son ISMAIL was nowhere to be found he was secretly living in SYRIA as a businessman and only the Dai'is (missionaries) knew where Imam Ismail is and for a few Imams in line the Imamat was hidden. The reason being
if our enimies find out that Imam Ismail is in Syria they will go there and kill him. So the Imamate went on in secret through Imam Ismail (6), Muhammad Bin Ismail(7), Vafi Ahmed(8) and Taqi Muhammad(9) and the Dai'is were doing the work of travelling and spreading the "Ismailism" in NORTH AFRICA. During the time of our 10th Imam, Imam Razid-din Abdullah the Dai'is came to Imam Razid-din Abdullah in Syria and told Him that we have spread "Ismailism" across North Africa and there are thousands of "Murids" waiting for you to assume the Throne of Imamate.
Imam Razid-din Abdullah was very old and sick and close to his death so he asked the Dai'is to take his son Muhammad-din Mahdi as by the time they reach North Africa Imam Razid-din Abdullah must have passed away and his son Imam Muhammad-din Mahdi will know it when he receives the "Noor of Hazrat Ali" and will declare as 11th Imam in line of Hazrat Ali.
On the other side, when Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq passed away his younger son MUSSA KAZIM said "I don't know where my brother Ismail is, he is nowhere to be found, so I am your next Imam after Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq and declared himself as the Imam and his succession went upto 11 Imams
namely your Imam Hassan Askar. Hassan Askar did not have a son to succeed him so the leaders of Isna Aashary community of the time (874 years ago) declared that Imam Mahdi was born and he disappeared at his birth and made promise that he will come back. And you guys are still waiting for him. I don't think he will come. Imams are not scared of anything and Imams do not disappear. Take a good proof or example of our Imam Hussein. He knew his destiny and yet he went to the battle of Karbala. Why Imam would disappear? Or be scared?
Similar cases happened during our 16th Imam, Imam Hakim bi Amrillah (in the year 1020AC). In the evening time Imam Hakin bi Amrillah went out for horse-riding in Cairo-Egypt and never came back. Later on the Authorities found his white robe with blood stains so the conclusion was he and his horse were kidnapped and killed. His son Imam Zaher Ali declared himself as 17th Imam of the Shi'ia Ismaili Faith and was Imam of the time for 15 years until 1035AC. The Druze Ismaili people did not accept this and say that Imam Hakim bi Amrillah the way he ascended with his horse to the sky will one-day descend and come back. They are still waiting for him too.
Similarly during the time of our 18th Ismaili Imam, Imam Mustansirbillah same thing happened. Imam Mustansirbillah publicly declared that after me my son Nizar will be the 19th Imam of the Shi'ia Ismaili community but when Imam Mustansirbillah passed away his younger son Muste-Ali
declared himself as the next Imam took the power in his hands and ordered an House-Arrest to his older brother Nizar living in Alexandria in Egypt. Muste Ali was married with a Turqish Prime Minister named as Jamali or something so Muste Ali supported by his father-in-Law took the power. HASSAN BIN SABAH had conquered the Fort of Alamut in Iran and came to Alexandria-Egypt with 40 people ask Imam Nizar to take the control of the Fort. Imam Nizar told him that he is in House-arrest and in very bad health shape, won't be alive for many days or will be killed so he asked Hassan Bin Sabha to take his son HADI to Alamut and Imam HADI will tell you that my father has passed away and I (Hadi) have received or am the bearer of the "Noor of Hazrat Ali" and I am your 20th
Imam of the time.The BORAH people followed the line of Muste- Ali.
In the line of Muste Ali their last Imam was AAMED who became Imam at the age of 14, was married and at the age of 24 passed away.
The Leaders of the Borah community announced to their people that Aamed's wife is pregnant so the next Imam is in the womb of his mother. When the mother gave birth to the child it was a girl so the Leaders announced that Imam TAYUB was born and disappeared at birth and will come back.
It is curious that both the Druze and the Bohra Ismaili communities are asking our current 49th Imam of the time to accept and intergrate them as Nizari Ismailis but so far they have not had any answer from him.
Now my dear friend Twelver, this is the Ismaili Faith. A straight line from
our Beloved Prophet MuhammadPBUH) through his daughter Fatima Ta-Zahra and our Hazrat Ali and their sons Imam Hassan and Imam Hussein.
As simple as that. But if you start flowerishing it becomes complicated to unerstand and digest. The more and more you start reading books, the more confusing it becomes because RELIGION today is spread in such a form that if you think you will dig the truth, take my world you will never find it ever.
Hope this will answer your question and will satisfy you.
Thank you for reading.
Hassan.
You got the answer to your question from "Agakhani" and KMaherali. They are refering to you about our "ginanic" explanations and other "Ismaili" doctrines, which I believe, means nothing to you because our faith of Islam is about 1432 years old. It's a very very long time.
But in order for you to get the satisfactory answer that you are aimed at, you will have to go back to the times of our Beloved Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). As a Shi'ia believers both, Ismailis and the Twelvers, recognize and accept the events that took place at the intersection of "Gadir-e-Khum" during our beloved Prophet's last pilgrimage to Mecca and the Revelation that the Prophet received from Allah-Ta'la to convey to, not only the caravan of 100/125 thousand people that accompanied Him but to the entire Muslim Ummah, and after the transmission of the message the Prophet raised the hand of Hazrat Ali to announce His successor after His physical death. Because there was no such thing as Ismailis and Isna Assharies. You and I had only one "Faith" the Shi'ia Faith
in other words we were together. Short time later, as you know, our Beloved Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) passed away and there was a division in Islam, the Shi'ias and the Sunnis. The Prophethood ended.
Our Shi'ia sect continued with Hazrat Ali as our first Imam of the Shi'as.
Hazrat Ali had two sons, Hazrat Imam Hassan and Hazrat Imam Hussein.
Only one of these two sons could be an IMAM, there would not be TWO IMAMS at the same time. One IMAM and One PROPHET. Therefore, it is our Ismaili doctrine that Hazrat Imam Hassan was performing the duties of our Beloved Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) and was later killed by his own wife by putting poison in his food, instigated by the MUAIVIYA & YEZID of the Umayyad Caliphs, and when our first Imam Hazrat Ali (A.S.) was assassinated in the Mosque of Kufa (Iraq) Hazrat Imam Hussein assumed the duties of Imamate, as you know it, he went to fight the battle of Karbala knowing very well the outcome of this battle, yet he went and was assassinated in Karbala. Hazrat Imam Hussein's son Imam Zainulabidin assumed the duties of Imamate who was also killed by our enimies, then Imam Zainulabidin's son Imam Muhammad-din Baqir assumed the duties of Imamate who was also killed, then his son Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq assumed the duties of Imamate. We were together upto here with little difference in interpretation that Imam Jaffer-a-Saduq was 5th Imam for Ismailis and for Twelver's was the 6th Imam. I will repeat again that there will never be TWO Imams at the same time and moment.
Now, our Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq has had threats of his life and knew that He will be killed too, so he announced publicly that after Him the successor to the Imamate will be his older son ISMAIL. Ismail also had threats for his life so Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq asked his son Ismail to secretly leave the Arabia Peninsula and go to SYRIA, which he did.
The Noor of Hazrat Ali (A.S.) which we the Shi'ia believe in, is transcended from one Imam to another, the receiving Imam knows immediately that my father has passed away and the "Noor" of Hazrat Ali has come in me, in other words he is the holder of the Noor of Hazrat Ali.
Probably you know, as Twelver, how our Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq was killed. There were many enimies at that time. Some members of the ABBASID CALIPH kept friendly relations with our Imam's families and secretly they were our enimies. They send to Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq some grapes soaked with poison for him to eat. Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq told to the person who brought these poisoned grapes that "I know your intension in bringing me these grapes and I will eat it" at least the person who brought the grapes knew that the Imam knows the intension behind those grapes, yet Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq ate it and next day he physically passed away.
After the passing away of our Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq, his older son ISMAIL was nowhere to be found he was secretly living in SYRIA as a businessman and only the Dai'is (missionaries) knew where Imam Ismail is and for a few Imams in line the Imamat was hidden. The reason being
if our enimies find out that Imam Ismail is in Syria they will go there and kill him. So the Imamate went on in secret through Imam Ismail (6), Muhammad Bin Ismail(7), Vafi Ahmed(8) and Taqi Muhammad(9) and the Dai'is were doing the work of travelling and spreading the "Ismailism" in NORTH AFRICA. During the time of our 10th Imam, Imam Razid-din Abdullah the Dai'is came to Imam Razid-din Abdullah in Syria and told Him that we have spread "Ismailism" across North Africa and there are thousands of "Murids" waiting for you to assume the Throne of Imamate.
Imam Razid-din Abdullah was very old and sick and close to his death so he asked the Dai'is to take his son Muhammad-din Mahdi as by the time they reach North Africa Imam Razid-din Abdullah must have passed away and his son Imam Muhammad-din Mahdi will know it when he receives the "Noor of Hazrat Ali" and will declare as 11th Imam in line of Hazrat Ali.
On the other side, when Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq passed away his younger son MUSSA KAZIM said "I don't know where my brother Ismail is, he is nowhere to be found, so I am your next Imam after Imam Jaffer-a-Sadiq and declared himself as the Imam and his succession went upto 11 Imams
namely your Imam Hassan Askar. Hassan Askar did not have a son to succeed him so the leaders of Isna Aashary community of the time (874 years ago) declared that Imam Mahdi was born and he disappeared at his birth and made promise that he will come back. And you guys are still waiting for him. I don't think he will come. Imams are not scared of anything and Imams do not disappear. Take a good proof or example of our Imam Hussein. He knew his destiny and yet he went to the battle of Karbala. Why Imam would disappear? Or be scared?
Similar cases happened during our 16th Imam, Imam Hakim bi Amrillah (in the year 1020AC). In the evening time Imam Hakin bi Amrillah went out for horse-riding in Cairo-Egypt and never came back. Later on the Authorities found his white robe with blood stains so the conclusion was he and his horse were kidnapped and killed. His son Imam Zaher Ali declared himself as 17th Imam of the Shi'ia Ismaili Faith and was Imam of the time for 15 years until 1035AC. The Druze Ismaili people did not accept this and say that Imam Hakim bi Amrillah the way he ascended with his horse to the sky will one-day descend and come back. They are still waiting for him too.
Similarly during the time of our 18th Ismaili Imam, Imam Mustansirbillah same thing happened. Imam Mustansirbillah publicly declared that after me my son Nizar will be the 19th Imam of the Shi'ia Ismaili community but when Imam Mustansirbillah passed away his younger son Muste-Ali
declared himself as the next Imam took the power in his hands and ordered an House-Arrest to his older brother Nizar living in Alexandria in Egypt. Muste Ali was married with a Turqish Prime Minister named as Jamali or something so Muste Ali supported by his father-in-Law took the power. HASSAN BIN SABAH had conquered the Fort of Alamut in Iran and came to Alexandria-Egypt with 40 people ask Imam Nizar to take the control of the Fort. Imam Nizar told him that he is in House-arrest and in very bad health shape, won't be alive for many days or will be killed so he asked Hassan Bin Sabha to take his son HADI to Alamut and Imam HADI will tell you that my father has passed away and I (Hadi) have received or am the bearer of the "Noor of Hazrat Ali" and I am your 20th
Imam of the time.The BORAH people followed the line of Muste- Ali.
In the line of Muste Ali their last Imam was AAMED who became Imam at the age of 14, was married and at the age of 24 passed away.
The Leaders of the Borah community announced to their people that Aamed's wife is pregnant so the next Imam is in the womb of his mother. When the mother gave birth to the child it was a girl so the Leaders announced that Imam TAYUB was born and disappeared at birth and will come back.
It is curious that both the Druze and the Bohra Ismaili communities are asking our current 49th Imam of the time to accept and intergrate them as Nizari Ismailis but so far they have not had any answer from him.
Now my dear friend Twelver, this is the Ismaili Faith. A straight line from
our Beloved Prophet MuhammadPBUH) through his daughter Fatima Ta-Zahra and our Hazrat Ali and their sons Imam Hassan and Imam Hussein.
As simple as that. But if you start flowerishing it becomes complicated to unerstand and digest. The more and more you start reading books, the more confusing it becomes because RELIGION today is spread in such a form that if you think you will dig the truth, take my world you will never find it ever.
Hope this will answer your question and will satisfy you.
Thank you for reading.
Hassan.
Hassan,
Well explained history, nicely written, however I intentionally avoided to put this history here because it has been posted many times in many different topics and assuming that brother Twelver who asked the question in this post may know this history. By the way your explanation is very good, decent and true.
I hope this history and your explanation will answer all the question of Twelver(above) and other interesting true history seekers.
Well explained history, nicely written, however I intentionally avoided to put this history here because it has been posted many times in many different topics and assuming that brother Twelver who asked the question in this post may know this history. By the way your explanation is very good, decent and true.
I hope this history and your explanation will answer all the question of Twelver(above) and other interesting true history seekers.