Marriage of Bibi Fatima and Hazrat Ali: Legitimate in Islam?

[asifashiqali]

Ya Ali Madad,
I have a questioin for all those who want to think.
Here it is !

How the marriage between Mawla Ali & Hazrat Fatima took place.
As the cousin brother of Hazrat Muhamad Mawla Ali was the Uncle ( Chacha ) of the Hazrat Fatima than how it is poosible to have a marriage of both of them?
Did shariat allow the marriage of these kinds?
Thank you.
I ask that question because that was disturbing me from a long period
.
Please don't mind.
Waiting for your reply!
Thanx!
Ya Ali Madad.

[shamsu]

Mowla Aly Madad ASIFASHIQALI,

Love your name,

Take a look at who you are talking about. How can any Law apply to him who transcends all existential determinations.

I am the sign of the Most High, I am the Gnosis of Mysteries, I am the Door of the doors, I am the First and the Last. I am the Manifest and the Hidden. I am the creator. I give birth to the world and I destroy it as I wish. I am the face of God, I am the Supreme Kalam. (Mowlana Hazrat Ali, Khubat al-Bayan. From a total of 70 such declarations, partially quoted in H.Corbin "Histoire de la philosophie islamique", Paris 1964, page 77.)

There is no one greater than Myself. If you think of God, then it is Myself. If you think of Pir, then too it is Me. If you think about Imam, then too it is Me. And your beloved Master is also Me. There is no one except Myself... (Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah Vadi Jamatkhana, March 16, 1902)

He who is above all else, he who is above this world, he who is above time, he who is above the human mind. (Mowlana Shah Karim, Baitul Khyal, Montreal 15/08/1992)

Whatever is, is Ya ali. (Mowlana Aga Ali Shah, 3rd day of Bhadarwa soud 1878 A.D.)

Give death, make alive, give life, give the Rozi, all this is in the hands of Ya Ali. Make rain, reach the Destination, put in Heaven or in Hell, all this is in the hands of Ya Ali. Only the true believers perceive the miracles of the Imam...

We the Imams in descent from Imam Hussein, are present until today and We shall remain until the Qiyamat and even after the Qiyamat... (Mowlana Aga Ali Shah, 2nd day of Magsar soudh 1874 A.D.)

whatever exists, is within Us. We will accompany you till the Origin. (Mowlana Aga Ali Shah, Bombay, 1884 A.D.)

We are your leader and True Lord of this world and the next. I am Ya Ali, I am Imam Hussein. Whatever you want to ask, ask Us. We are the First and the Last. Therefore, obey only to Us... Be among those who know the Imam. (Mowlana Aga Ali Shah, 1856 A.D)

Imam is the Resurrector. He is the Lord of beings. He is the Lord which is the act of being absolute. He excludes all existential determinations because He transcends all of them. He opens the door of His mercy and from the Light of his knowledge, He makes everything seeing, listening and talking for eternity... (Mowlana Ala’zikrihis Salaam, 8/08/1164 at Alamut. Quoted page 144 of H.Corbin, "Histoire de la philosophie islamique:, Paris 1964.)

Imam never disappears... (Mowlana Soultan Mohamed Shah Kutch, Nagalpur, 28/11/1903)

Imam is the cause of creation. This world could not exist without Imam and if Imam desires, the world would disintegrate in a moment. (Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah Madagascar 1946)


STUDY THESE FARMANS, MEMORIZE THEM AND REFLECT ON THEM CONSISTENTLY FOR A WEEK OR SO AND YOUR QUESTION WILL NOT REMAIN.

YA ALY MADAD

SHAMS

[star_munir]

Mowla Ali Madad

These verses are from the Granth of Syed Imam Shah,Momin Chetamni.Read this and you will find out answer to your question.
Eji Te Murtaza Ali avtare aa

Abu Talib ne gher avtar

Te Baitullah mahain peda thaya

Te shaher makka min jai Cheto.....



79. Murtaza Ali was born to Abu Talib in Baitulla, which is in Mecca.


80) Eji Mata ji gayata bait mahain

Tayat karvane saar

Ibadat karine jyare uthiya

Ali pedani same thai teniajwar Cheto.....



80. His mother was doing Baiyat and was in Ibadat when Hazrat Ali was born.


81) Eji Tare mataji pariya(n) vichar ma

Have gher gayani nathi var

Ta(n) kere ghar bijo hato

Teni bint fali bari thai teniajwar Cheto.....



81. Hazrat Ali's mother was surprised at this incident of Hazrat Ali being

born while she was praying for she was away from home when He was born.



82) Eji Tare mataji uthi te mahain gaya

Huran be aaviyoon te ghar ninjar

Te same Ali peda thaya

Te aad nirianjan noon avtar Cheto.....



82. She did not have to worry very long for two angels came to assist her

when Ali was born. Verily He is God Manifest.


83) Eji Tame sat divas aankhioon nahi aghariyoon

Mukh thi khirna pidhoon lagar

Tara nabi Mohd ne malum thayoon

Teto aaviya teaniaj var Cheto.....



83. For seven days He would not open His eyes and would not take any milk.

This made Prophet Muhammed realize (who Hazrat Ali was) and he cam to Him.


84) Eji Tare salam kidha sarvare

Ali ae aankhiyoon oghariyoon teaniaj var

Tare didar kidha nabi Mohamed tana

Mukh thi salam varyo ali kirtar Cheto.....



84. He (Prophet Muhammed) paid respects to Hazrat Ali, upon which He

opened His eyes and they mutually

saw each other and Hazrat Ali smiled at the Prophet.

88) Eji Te satguru sahebjieay sreva kari

Shukrana kidha ati apaar

Ali ne te allah orakhiyo

Te mahain shak na aanio lagaar Cheto.....



88. So Momins, serve that Lord and be thankful for Ali is Allah and do not

ever doubt it.


89) Eji Tare arash mahinthi maliek utariya

Te aaviya paygambar pase tenivar

Te puchva lagiya paiygambar ne

Tame shoon shoon ditha sardar Cheto....



89. The angels came down from the skies to ask the Prophet where and how

did you see the leader .


90) Eji Tare mukh mubarak mahain thi boliya

Nabi Mohammed teniaj vaar

Ame mojiza kitha mukh ali jine

Aapano bhed aaliyo che sanbar Cheto.....



90. The Prophet replied: "I have seen a miracle from (in) Ali's face and

He has introduced me to the secrets of the here and after."


91) Eji Tare Nabi Mohammed ne malaeke kahayoon

Amne dekharo Ali vardatar

Ame didar kariya shah Ali tana

To utariya pele paar Cheto....





91. The angels requested the Prophet: "Please show us Ali the Lord so that

we may get His Holy Didar and achieve salvation."


92) Eji Tare Nabi Mohammed ne malaek chaliya

Te aaviya Abu Talib ne duar

Tyan noor dithon nirakar noon

Kidhoon kuransoon teni vaar Cheto....



92. The Nabi then took the angels to Hazrat Abu Talib's home where they

all saw Allah's Noor (Illahi Noor) and completed their mission.


93) Eji Tare salam kari te to pacha variya

Te malaek ne sardar

Tare malaek Nabi Mohammed ne kahayoon

Ae to che arash kurash noon kirtar Cheto....



93. After saluting Hazrat Ali the angels turned back and said to the

Prophet: "Verily He is the Creator of the earth and the heaven."


98. When the angels went back to the Heaven and were fortunate to go to

God's presence; to their amazement it was none other than Hazrat Ali.



MARRIAGE OF HAZRAT ALI:

101) Eji Nabi Mohammed sat brahma kahiae

Tena farzand bibi Fatima saar

Tare Nabi Mohammed chinta upani

Aeno kon te thashe bharthar Cheto.....





101. Nabi Muhammed is the right Brahma and his daughter is Bibi Fatima.

This worried the Prophet - who would marry his daughter?


102) Eji Nabi Mohammed ne shahe maeraj te raviaa

Tyan dithi te kudrat aapar

Tare farman aaviyo Ali janab thi

Tame chinta ma karo lagaar Cheto....





102. When Prophet was called on (experienced) Meraj, he saw many wonderful

things and Hazrat Ali made a Farman to him not to worry.


103) Eji Tam ghar farzand bibi Fatima

Teno am pase che bharthar

Te kul tamari mahain avtariya

Te Abu Talib ne gher avtar Cheto....





103. I have chosen a husband for your daughter, Bibi Fatima, who has come

to you through Abu Talib's lineage.


104) Eji Te roop amaroon jaanjo

Te Mowla Murtaza Ali avtar

Ali allah aek kari jaanjo

Te mahain shak ma aanjo lagaar Cheto....



104. Know My form, for though I am manifest in Murtaza Ali, I am the

Creator and do not doubt that.


105) Eji Jyare aevo farman aaviyo hazar thi

Tare Nabi Mohammed ne aaviyo aetbaar

Tyan dithi kudrat kadar tani

Boliya Nabi Mohammed teni var Cheto.....



105. When the Prophet heard this at Meraj, he gained faith and he saw

awe-inspiring things.


106) Eji Tare araj kidhi Ali janab ma

Tame sambaro parvardigar

Ali allah aek farmaviya

Teno te koon karshe aetbaar Cheto....





106. He requested Hazrat Ali saying, "How will I convince my fellow human

beings that you are God Manifest?"


107) Eji Tare dargah mathi farman aaviyo

Tame sambaro Mohammed mora piyar

Tam ghar farzand bibi Fatima

Teno Ali che bharthar Cheto.....





107. The reply from the Heaven to the Prophet was: "O My beloved Prophet,

marry your daughter to Hazrat Ali."


108) Eji Tam ghar farzand nar che

Am ghar farzand the bharthar

Tame Mohammed ame jallshanho

Aapan donoon no ay che vahevar Cheto.....



108. You have a daughter and I have the husband for her. You are Muhammed

and I am "Jal Shahnur"(Creator). Together we will carry on the mission.


109) Eji Jyare ae farzand mota thashe

Tyare karshoon te duniaanoon aachar

Ame tame donoon aek chiae

Tenoon koie na karsho vichar Cheto......





109. When your daughter will grow older I will create the circumstance for

her to marry Ali for indeed you are

from My Noor, so don't worry about the future.


Eji Te Ali Mohammed aek che

Tena nam na joaa joaa vichar

Ali kirtar vishanu kahiae

Nabi Mohammed brahma jino avtar Cheto....



117. Momins, Ali and Muhammed are one. It is like different attributes of

God as one who would compare Ali to

Vishnu and Muhammed to Brahma.




If you want to read more read this Ginan

[Guest]

ya Ali Madad,
thanx for your wonderful reply !

But tell me a thing that how can anyone who creates the law can
broke it ! suppose Muhammad (SAW) was the person at that time
thorugh which the law was given , if He himself disobeys the law so that will be very difficult for him for cinveince others to follow that law.

So how can one think that the creater of the law should not follow
that law and in such a case that He is physically present aming us.
I accept that He is the creator, but in physical sense can He
disobeys His own law?

Thanx
Don't mind
waiting for your replies.
Ya Ali Madad.

[shamsu]

The creator of the Law will always be above that Law.

If the owner of the store says no one will leave before closing time, you know that if he has to pick up something from somewhere else he will leave.

The boss says no more overtime this week. He can stay over time if he wants to. The Law applies to everyone, but who is going to ask the owner without insulting him and taking a risk of getting fired.

Rasulillah had more than four wives at one time as he was allowed to.

The Laws are a means to an End. The creator is already in the Assal State he has no use for Laws.

We need the laws to groom ourselves in the right manner to be able to reach Assal mae Vaasal.

"Badan ne jonar buth parast cche" Imam SMS.

Look at the Rooh of Mowla instead of his physical body. Please read the Farmans once again and try to reflect upon the elevated level of the Imam and you may be able to transcend the human body and get to the essence.

[asifashiqali]

Ya Ali Madad,
Thanx 4 ur reply ! but here is another questiion!

Who is Rasool?
The practical example os the law given to us by the God, isn't it?
If he is the practical example of the laws than how can one who is setting the example for the humanity till the last day can broke the law?
God says follow Rasool how can one follow Rasool if he had himsellf broken the law, and if that was the order of God than how can the Go create such laws of which He can't Himself set the example ?
It means that God fails to give the Practical example of his Law?

waiting for your reply!
Ya Ali Madad.

[shamsu]

Mowla Aly Madad,

The Teacher gives Homework so that the students can learn. he doesn't do the Homework himself. The laws are homework for us to follow and learn from.

[star_munir]

Mowla Ali Madad

Your question was what is rasool?
Rasool [PBUH] is Noor Of Allah on earth for guidence of mankind.
In Ismaili anthem we says that Hazir Imam is from Noor of Rasool Allah
Hazrat Mohammad [PBUH]said that I and Ali are from same Divine Light.
Hazrat Mohammad [PBUH] said that Fatima is part of my Body.
Syed Imam Shah says in Ginan Satvenni
Panjtan paak ka bhaid pcharo
Pannche hi tan so aik tan jarro

So do not think Panjtan Paak as different.Who is uncle and who is what.They all are one.
Syed Imam Shah says that Panjtan Paak is the cause of these 3 entities the Holy Quran,Dul Dul and Zulfiqar
In Granth Momin Cheetawani by Pir Sadar Din it is
TO MUNEEVAR BHAI AAPNA MATHA MUBARAK NU MOHAMMAD MUSTAFA KAREA ANE MOWLA ALI TO POTE ALI AVTAR AA SEENA MUBARAK NEETE HAZRAT BIBI FATIMA ANE NUR CHASHAM TE BETENA HAZRAT IMAM HASSAN VA HUSSAIN DIL THAAR.

[shamsu]

When Allah says follow rasul that means follow what he says not follow what he does.

If you follow what he does then you should be buried in a grave right now and that is absurd.

As you can see the QURAN states this specifically.

004.059
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

[roxy]

Ya Ali Madad,
I have a questioin for all those who want to think.
Here it is !

How the marriage between Mawla Ali & Hazrat Fatima took place.
As the cousin brother of Hazrat Muhamad Mawla Ali was the Uncle ( Chacha ) of the Hazrat Fatima than how it is poosible to have a marriage of both of them?
Did shariat allow the marriage of these kinds?
Thank you.
I ask that question because that was disturbing me from a long period
.
Please don't mind.
Waiting for your reply!
Thanx!

Ya Ali Madad.

The question should not disturb you at all since the Holy Prophet himself gave her daughter to his cousin Hazrat Fatima. The question of Holy Prophet going against the Quran does not arise at all. In fact Quran reveals that the message of Allah was to obey the Prophet and, as such, the prophet Muhammad was one of the authorities besides Allah.

Somehow, subsequently someone also mentioned the following (need more verses actually):

Syed Imam Shah says in Ginan Satvenni
Panjtan paak ka bhaid pcharo
Pannche hi tan so aik tan jarro

To purify anyone is in allah's hand - quran can be referred to in this regard.

The sultan mohd shah farman reveal about Fanafillah - unity with imam/allah's noor after death. In such a case they are one with Allah/Imam's noor. There is a farman of sultan mohd shah which states (not exact wordings) when the river mixes/goes into the ocean - the river is no more called a river but an ocean.

This is in short.

[knowledge]

A very good article. I'll spread the word.

[agakhani]

Code: Select all

Who is Rasool? 

Asif,
First of all we should follow what Rasool told us to do as per the istructions of Allah, but we should not follow what he did in his entire life even though rasool is example to human being, same principal apply to MHI we should follow his farman but should not follow what he is doing.
Answer of your first question about the marraige of Hazar Ali and Fatima wether it is in shariat or not? no it is not in Shariat and as per my knowledge muslims does not arrange marriage between neice and uncle they count as same blood relationship so it is prohibited.

[kmaherali]

One of the reasons that we are prohibited to marry close relatives is that the offsprings can have genetic issues and result in physical deformities and illnesses. There is an interesting article in this regard about Darwin's marriage at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/scien ... ?th&emc=th

However in the cases of elevated souls, they need not be conceived by natural means. They can come into existence through immaculate birth without physical intercourse.

Paramahansa Yogananda in his book “The Second Coming of the Christ” explains the immaculate conception of Christ as:

[Many saints have been born in the natural way, and some in the immaculate way. The great ones who have attained liberation retain their individuality in Spirit; and at God’s behest to return to the world as saviors, they can take a physical body either by immaculate conception or natural birth. (In higher world ages, they may even do so by direct materialization – though that is not for the eyes of the unenlightened times.) The mode of birth does not matter, nor does it necessarily indicate the degree of divinity.

Sexual creation has the selfish sexual instincts of the parents in it. Therefore, some saints choose to be conceived in the immaculate way, the pure system of conception. So it is a fact that Jesus was created by immaculate conception. His mother Mary, she who “had found favour with God,” was filled with the Holy Ghost Cosmic Vibration: “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Higher shall overshadow thee.” This sacred creative Vibration, suffused with the reflection of God as the Christ Consciousness, entered the ovum in Mary’s womb, immaculately creating the germ cell of life into which entered the soul of Jesus, the individualized Christ Consciousness. From this pristine cell, according to the pattern inherent in the soul of Jesus, grew the body in which Jesus the Christ was born. It is not a myth. Guatama Buddha (as also other avatars) was born in the same way. His mother saw the Spirit enter her body. As told in traditional Indian allegory in the Jataka (ancient Buddhist scripture):

“And lying down on the royal couch, she fell asleep and dreamed the following dream:

“The four guardian angels came and lifted her up, together with her couch, and took her away to the Himalaya Mountains…After clothing her with divine garments, they anointed her with perfumes and decked her with divine flowers. Not far off was Silver Hill, and in it a golden mansion. There they spread a divine couch with its head towards the east, and laid her down upon it.

Now the Future Buddha had become a superb white elephant,” and was wandering about at no great distance, on Gold Hill. Descending thence, he ascended Silver Hill, and approaching from the north, he plucked a white lotus with his silvery trunk, and trumpeting loudly, went into the golden mansion. And three times he walked round his mother’s couch, with his right side towards it, and striking her right side, he seemed to enter on her right side, he seemed to enter her womb. Thus the conception took place in the Midsummer Festival.

On the next day the queen awoke, and told the dream to the king. And the king caused sixty-four eminent Brahmins to be summoned…[and] told them the dream and asked them what would come of it?

‘Be not anxious, great king!’ said the Brahmins; ‘a child has planted itself in the womb of your queen…..You will have a son. And he, if he continue to live the household life , will become a Universal Monarch; but if he leave the household life and retire from the world, he will become a Buddha, and roll back the clouds of sin and folly of this world.’” (Havard Classics, Volume 45, Part 3: Buddhist Writings, trans. Henry Clarke Warren (New York: Collier, 1909))

There is a cosmic metaphysical symbolism in the wondrous conception and birth of Jesus. His incarnate Christ Consciousness came immaculately through the Virgin Mary. Likewise, the universal Christ Intelligence was born or reflected in the cosmic body of pure vibratory creation (Cosmic “Virgin Mary”) through the instrumentality of God the Father. The Holy Ghost Cosmic Vibration, Aum, Maha-Prakriti, is analogous to the Cosmic Virgin Mary because it is thus the mother of the immanent Universal Christ Intelligence, the Son of God, and of all created objects.]

The notion of "virgin birth" or Immaculate Conception is also found in our own heritage reflected in the lives of the "Paa(n)ch Paandavas".

Paramahansa Yogananda explains the divine parentage of the Pandava brothers in his translation and commentary of Bhagavad Gita "God Talks With Arjuna, The Bhgavad Gita" as:

"Pandu had two wives, Kunti (sister of Vasudeva, Krishna's father) and Madri. For the accidental killing of a sage during a hunting expedition, Pandu had been cursed that if he embraced a woman he would die. It thus seemed that he and his two queens must remain childless. But Kunti then revealed that before her marriage to Pandu she had received the blessing of a miraculous power: Impressed by her piety and devotional service, a sage had granted her five mantras with which she could receive offspring from any god she chose to invoke. When Kunti told Pandu of her mantras, he entreated her to use them. She bore three sons for Pandu: Yudhisthira, Bhima, and Arjuna from invoking respectively the devas Dharma, Vayu, and Indra. As Pandu wished Madri also to have a child, he asked Kunti to give the remaining sacred mantra to her*. Having obtained the mantra, Madri invoked the twin devas, the Ashvins, and thereby received twin sons, Nakula and Sahadeva."

* The fifth mantra had already been used by Kunti prior to her marriage to Pandu. To test her power, she invoked Surya, the sun deva and Karna was born to her - yet she remained a virgin. Nevertheless, fearing rebuke that she had mothered an illegitimate child, she sealed him in a box and set it afloat on the river, where he was found and raised by an aged charoteer. Karna later played a major role in the Mahabharata story, as mentioned in the commentary 1:8

[jiggy]

Ya Ali Madad,
I have a questioin for all those who want to think.
Here it is !

How the marriage between Mawla Ali & Hazrat Fatima took place.
As the cousin brother of Hazrat Muhamad Mawla Ali was the Uncle ( Chacha ) of the Hazrat Fatima than how it is poosible to have a marriage of both of them?
Did shariat allow the marriage of these kinds?
Thank you.
I ask that question because that was disturbing me from a long period
.
Please don't mind.
Waiting for your reply!
Thanx!
Ya Ali Madad.

MAM Asif,

It's amazing how people can launch into such prolonged and unnecessary answers to such simple and straightforward questions.

To answer your question directly Asif, the marriage between Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fatima was completely halal as per sharia at the time of the Prophet. There is no prohibition in Islam against someone marrying their own cousin or their father/mother's cousin. The rules regarding consanguinity prohibit one from marrying their parent's brothers and sisters. A cousin brother is not a brother (hence the prefix).

Hazrat Ali did not marry his own niece - he married his much older cousin's daughter. There is no prohibition in sharia against such relationships.

Hope that answers your question.

[shiraz.virani]

I completely disagree with the ginan that Star_Munir gave us.....bcoz logically speaking angels are far more spiritual and more elevated than us humans , they serve and chant the name of lord[allah] day and night....they surround the throne of allah[swt] ....if iam not mistaken this is mentioned in quran


So having said all this how can angels descend on earth and beg rasool[saw] to let them see allah[swt]......dont they know whom they're serving ?

Allah[swt] is not just the lord of this world......hez the lord of the universe[which consists of billions of galaxy's] and beyond that ! .......so please dont restrict your AKL only to apply shirk to one of the best swordsman, the best commander and chief, loving father, caring husband and of all .....a very very kind human being [just like jesus] and most of all GOD FEARING...and thats none other than amirul mominin ....HAZRAT ALI [as] = true guide [not allah but servant of allah ]

I hope there is freedom of speech on this website, hope you guys dont kick me out again !