Questions about Ismailism from a Sunni

[shiraz.virani]

sister zina said :

brother Virani,

Did Allah give this text to Uthman through the Prophet for Allah says clearly "We have sent you the Book"? did the prophet during his 23 years of Naboowat embark on a formal exercise of compilation? he did not..right? then why did he not do so ? does not the quran say that the prophet was already teaching from the Al-Kitab? ....you are saying that "we have used ages to find Allah" ? really? then what is the basis for muslims to claim that they have an unmediated relationship with God? and so why are you then showing an ayah which says "wherever ye turn there is the face of Allah" are you not contradicting yourself?

sister if he did not then what s the purpose of quran[ as a book] in first place ??

its like saying ok rasool[saw] you duty is to deliver the message...thats it !! forget about the compilation ......do you think allah[swt] doesnt know ?

the stuff that you're talking about was repeated during the time of torah and injeel ....hence in todays world people call it incomplete...and yet when the christians try to find flaws with quran, they couldnt...because there isnt any !!!

and if compilation was forbidden then why was imam ali[as] was soooo busy COLLECTING HOLY quran , the term in hadiths is COLLECTING and not writing himself !!!!!!!!!!!!

whose quran was he[as] collecting ?? who wrote it down ???

You are trying to say you are here to learn? Curious and venky said the same to the the unsuspecting Ismailis on youtube....fitnatis love to mislead in order to pursue their "reform" agenda...muslims consider the Quran as the infallible word of God .....you are insulting the muslims by saying that it is the "uthmanic text" which is the infallible word of God....Curious AKA Venky have been asking the same questions and using the same tactics & innuendo, of the type you have been using here....so what is the underlying intent?

who is VENKY ?? allah[swt] is all knower and i assure you sister that my intent is "RESPECT FOR QURAN"...simple !

Are you a "reformist" whose sole intent is to try and poison the hearts and minds of folks within the community through a well orchestrated campaign of fitna? I hope not ! I bet you my last dollar that you are embeeded in this forum under more than one ID...that is your style - your "modus operandi"....once when Curious was questioned about whether he is also maherally he feigned ignorance and denied even knowing him and then suddenly after few days started to praise the book maherally had written against the ismailis....and all along curious has claimed he too is an ismaili and then later on changed his story to say he had now left ismailism....your style somehow, the swings, the oscillations, the provocative questions, the mannerism, the innuendo etc etc is matching almost 80%.....I am still analyzing ....and will continue to do so....

iam not a reformist sister, iam an explorer...and i always try to do some research....you can check this whole topic and see who cursed who.....if i wasnt an ismaili muslim in first place , you would have found me degrading our holy imam[as] just like meherali does !

my intention is to stop our own brothers and sisters who have 0% knowledge on quran and yet boast as if they know everything when they know nothing......i told your sister to show some respect for quran...she dint and hence got left and right....and finally she called you[her messiah] for help

i am not saying i know the whole quran by heart....but all i know is that quran is the foundation of my faith, and its this faith that i carry with me wherever i go sister.

you can brand me if you want to but you cannot change my belief for holy quran and imam e zaman[as]

your style somehow, the swings, the oscillations, the provocative questions, the mannerism, the innuendo etc etc is matching almost 80%

lol, you remind me of what znanwalla said once, she said she supports truth yet she needed your help

khair, all i will say is FALSEHOOD IS BOUND TO PERISH.

so try as much as you want sister, you'll find me @ where people abuse holy quran.


salam[peace]

yaa ali madad [i can assure you sister, meherali wont say this ]

[znanwalla]

Virani, Perhaps you went to consult your Imam Maherally....we all work and do not make excuses and in any case nobody asked you as nobody cares what you do...now isn't it true that on the Bohra site you have been posting nasty stuff about the ismailis?. You have even talked about the dasond too. Additionally you have been rather very active on another Ismaili site too and saying nasty things about our Imam including at Youtube?. Your profile on these sites showed you were in Vancouver and not Houston...am I right?

btw....you said earlier on that the ismaili "Tariqa" can change?...where did you read this? I hope it wasn't in the "Wahabbi chronicle" ? do you know what is a "Tariqa" to begin with ? what is the Ismaili Creed? "Nizari" Ismailis ! can it ever change?

What is the purpose of the interpolations and fabrications your ancestors concocted? now this is the question muslims must ask? don't use the word "quran" surreptiously, if you will...and I will tell you why?

"..yet when the christians try to find flaws with quran, they couldnt...because there isnt any !!! ..."

Now I hope it wasn't your Imam Maherally who said this to you? first of all he needs a speech therapy..so convey my message to him...

The first translations to English were not undertaken by Muslims but by Christians who sought to debunk Islam and aid in the conversion of Muslims to Christianity.

Alexander Ross, chaplain to Charles I (r. 1625-49) and the first to embark on the translation process, subtitled his 1649 work as "newly Englished for the satisfaction for all that desire to look into the Turkish vanities."[14] Interestingly, Ross did not speak Arabic and relied on secondarily translating from the French, a language in which he was not well-schooled. He, therefore, based his interpretation on a problematic rendition by Andrew Du Ryer.

According to George Sale (1697-1736), "[Du Ryer's] performance … is far from being a just translation; there being mistakes in every page, besides frequent transpositions, omissions and additions, faults."[15]

Most eighteenth and nineteenth century translations were undertaken by authors without strong background in Islam.

As they were goaded by the urge to answer Christian polemic, their forgettable works do not reflect any intellectual depth; as such, copies are extremely rare.

Among the best known, albeit pejorative, English-language analyses of Islam during this time were those by Christian authors such as George Sale, John Rodwell (1808-1900), Edward Palmer (1840-1882), and Sir William Muir (1819-1905).[16]

Of these, Sale was probably the most important because he wrote a detailed critique about earlier translations.[17]

His work became the standard reference for all English readers until almost the end of the nineteenth century.[18] However, his work was limited by his lack of access to public libraries forcing him to rely only upon material in his personal collection.[19]

While Sale gave the impression that he based his translation on the Arabic text, others have suggested that he relied on an earlier Latin translation.[20]

Sale did not insert verse numbers into his work, nor did he insert footnotes or other explanations. The result, therefore, is a work that is extremely difficult to comprehend.

Muslims view the Qur'an as God's direct words revealed in Arabic to the Prophet Muhammad (d. 632).[1] Because the Qur'an stresses its Arabic nature, Muslim scholars believe that any translation cannot be more than an approximate interpretation, intended only as a tool for the study and understanding of the original Arabic text.[2] Since fewer than 20 percent of Muslims speak Arabic, this means that most Muslims study the text only in translation which are corrupt and faulty.

So how accurate are the Qur'an's renderings into English? The record is mixed.

Some are simply poor translations. Others adopt sectarian biases, and those that are funded by Saudi Arabia often insert political annotation.

Since translators seek to convey not only text but also meaning, many rely on the interpretation (tafsir) of medieval scholars in order to conform to an "orthodox" reading

[znanwalla]

if he did not then what's the purpose of quran[ as a book] in first place ??
its like saying ok rasool[saw] you duty is to deliver the message...thats it !! forget about the compilation ......do you think allah[swt] doesnt know ?

44:58 (O Prophet) We have made this Qur’an easy in your tongue, in order that they may take it to heart. ....so what does this ayah indicate? who are "they"? mankind ! and what does "to heart" imply?

004.068
YUSUFALI: And We should have shown them the Straight Way.
PICKTHAL: And should guide them unto a straight path.
SHAKIR: And We would certainly have guided them in the right path.
004.069

YUSUFALI: All who obey Allah and the messenger are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship!
PICKTHAL: Whoso obeyeth Allah and the messenger, they are with those unto whom Allah hath shown favour, of the prophets and the saints and the martyrs and the righteous. The best of company are they!



004.070
YUSUFALI: Such is the bounty from Allah: And sufficient is it that Allah knoweth all.
PICKTHAL: That is bounty from Allah, and Allah sufficeth as Knower.
SHAKIR: This is grace from Allah, and sufficient is Allah as the Knower.

I simply fail to understand your stubborness - so what is the bounty of Allah? anyone who clings to Imam maherally gets the bounty of Iblis !!....

The first clue one has is that the "path" of your Imam M, which is NOT straight will be crooked and this will be the path of the unjust ones as per Allah's covenant with Abraham that HIS covenant will NOT reach the unjust or the cursed ones !

Allah guides unto HIS NOOR whomsoever HE Wills...God does not wish to torture any soul but again this is an inexorable law of Nature that man shall be responsible for all his evil behaviour - passion - anger - greed - lust - jealousy and degenerate tendencies and so they will undergo MASKH (Transformation) and the experience of DHULMAT, resulting as retributive consequences, equal in proportion to the karma .....truly sad !

[shiraz.virani]

sister zina said :

You boast too much....and your boastfulness makes me laugh... you are claiming that you recite the Du'a and yet when znan pushed you to explain which is the SURA that Allah ordained muslims to recite as a Du'a, you are going off on a tangent and telling Znan to follow the "ayats" (verses) on Salat - ....don't you know what is a Sura (Chapter) and what is a Verse (ayat) ? oR maybe the Uthmanic text does not tell you the difference huh?

lol, when we recite a particular aayat in our holy dua sister, that aayat is a part of surah[chapter] ,khair i guess iam debating with a small girl...i told you already that allah[swt] has ordered us to recite anything from the holy quran....yes the same quran which your sister tagged as uthmanic....

lemme repeat it again....muslims can recite anything from holy quran.....but the best thing is choose those verse that praise allah[swt] because he is sooooooooo merciful, he has to be praised.

this is the 3rd time iam trying to answer your question

our dua consists of surah fatehah followed by surah nesa, surah yaseen , surah maidah , surah fatah and surah anfal.

now what i asked sister znanwalla was.....how come our holy dua is made from the book of flaws[as per you and her] ?

how come the verse that are in our holy quran matches exactly....EXACTLY with that of the quran compiled by h.uthman ???

she couldnt answer this, instead copy/pasted bunch of hadiths which dont even match to the question which i asked !

can you please give me an answer in simple human language ?

You are boasting that you follow an "Imam" and yet you have emphasized so vehemently about the Uthmanic text that it almost creates an imbalance in your assertion about walaya... in the same breath you are showing them ayah 57:28 which you are using skillfully but as a converse to the concept of walaya - that is how i read your intent.......

this so called imbalance must be for you sister because you follow itrat where as i follow quran and itrat[hence balanced]


4:59 (Picktall) O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end

You blaspheme, satirize and mock Ismailis and then you pretend and act coy........cunningly you make your hints in a subtle and indirect manner for example...that the ismaili Imam "came from Muta" ( he never did as far as I know).. that the Imam married a christian and so she is not a muslim ....Curious has said all this on You tube brother....

whom did i mock sister ?? and its meherali who points out not me !!...and now who is CURIOUS GEORGE ??

You said that there is a "different story about the shahada in the constitution" - I see none !......

When znan asked you what is the fundamental difference you just said "aliullah" - that is what Akbar Maherally says too AKA Curious...

we ismailis add aliullah = ali is from allah[swt]......whats wrong with that ???
kindly show us the difference between what i said and what you believe in ?

What this tells me is that you don't know your own shahada even when you were perhaps an ismaili....when asked about the Pillars of faith you said ismailis have 7, wilayat being the first...you are wrong....how come if you are an Ismaili you don't know how many pillars of faith exist? and its sequence?

my dearest sister, as i told you last time its as if iam having a debate with a small baby !

walayah is the foundation of ismailism without which everything else is null and void

Walayah “Guardianship” denotes love and devotion to God, the prophets, the imām and the duˤāt "missionaries". In Ismāˤīlī doctrine, God is the true desire of every soul, and thus its the imams/dais/rasool[saw] that lead believers to the right path.

if there is no foundation , there is no ismailism sister.....wake up and smell the coffee !!!!

Any muslim including an Ismaili will tell you that TAWHID is always the FIRST Pillar of faith for any muslim and when you were asked to declare what the Holy Du'a acknowledged, you ignored the question on purpose because it upholds the fundamental pillars and which you are trying to downplay or suppress ....had you answered the question as a good and pious Ismaili that you claim you are, the readership would easily then know that the first pillar of Ismaili faith is Tawhid (oneness of God) and so by virtue of this premise nobody can say they are NOT muslims - so conversely your intent is to try and prove otherwise....right?...by trying to incorrectly show "walayah" as being the first, you have on purpose tried to mock and ridicule ismailis and expose them to odium and contempt...certainly Wilaya is an important pillar of faith but all Prophets brought the same Message of TAWHID and there were 124,000 Prophets and some 300 plus Messengers and Imamat formally followed Naboowat and Naboowat brought Tawhid...

lol, sister when did i said ismailis are not muslims ?? why are you trying to use you head when you know its already empty !!!

wake up !!! and stop playing this blame game which you started in first place

i thought you would be atleast fair not better than znanwalla but its actually the other way !!!

go ask any missionary or visit any website of your choice.....the very first pillar is "WALAYAH" without that there is no foundation......even our so called dua becomes null and void because our holy dua talks about WALAYAH/ WALAYAH and more WALAYAH....the lord of present age shah karim al-hussaini is vested with the authority to guide ismailis by interpreting the holy quran for them....and if there is any dispute allah[swt] has ordered us to refer it to him[swt] since rasool[saw] is not with us physically.

iam not saying that there is no tawhid....but ismailis belief that imam is the carrier of noor hence the authority to interpret quran.

When asked which are the two critical suras which ismailis recite in their Du'a you again ignored the question.....then you are boasting as if you are so enlightened? ...when asked to declare what your Du'a acknowledges, you brushed aside the question....why? because it goes against your agenda for this acknowledgement upholds what you would not want people to know....

lol, i have cleared this already @ above....feel free to get enlightened

there are more than two surahs in ismaili dua and they all are important....which 2 surah are you talking about, kindly explain ?

When it came to the issue of Wudzoo, you said that you only do this in the Jk you go to but you do not know if any other Jks follow this practice........so you do not even understand the concept brother - I have investigated this matter - I am in touch with the top leadership and the scholars - you are confused by the terminology and it is your own ignorance that makes you think ismailis do not do Wudzoo... you have the audacity to quote an ayah showing the ismailis that wudzoo is ordained i.e. you are indirectly questioning them why they are not doing this?...the only difference is that you are going around in a circular way and using indirect tactics....just becuse the ismailis do not use the term "wudzoo" and follow the concept itself, you think they are not practicing it...

top leadership ?? whats that ?? are they above quran ???If i dunno anything about wudzoo as you claim, then kindly tell us how to perform wudzoo sister.

and who said ismailis dont use the term wudzoo ??? and when did i said they dont practise wudzoo ???

again trying to use your empty head sister ????

What shows up is that the ismaili method is superior and moving with the demands of the modern times whereas the traditional method is showing weakness when one analyzes the import of the relevant ayah...do you know which ayah I am referring to? show me if you know it...

no sister, i dont know which ayah you talking about since iam not the author of it.

pst pst !! make sure that you show me the aayat from imam e zaman's quran and not uthmanic[as you and your sister call it] he he he..

You make a statement as a "statement of fact" when in reality it is just perjury calculated and designed to cause harm to the ismailis ...what you see in the constitution is absolutely correct !

As without the testimony of that portion which you see in the Constitution, nobody can be a muslim and so it is actually bothering you that ismailis are showing this portion of the Shahada in their constitution for it makes them muslims very much like anyone else...and which I suspect you do not wish to see happening....so your whining is quite understandable....I can judge the horrible "savagery" of your acts....

lol, again using you empty head to make some stupid allegations !!

i never said anything against our constitution....infact our constitution supports my statement !!

if you have any problem kindly consult your so called higher authorities

[znanwalla]

The Holy "Qur'an". By Muhammad 'Ali.

In 1917, a muslim scholar, Muhammad 'Ali (1875-1951), who later would become the leader of the Lahori subgroup, published his translation.[23]

He constantly updated his work and had published four revisions by his death in 1951.

Contemporary reviewers praised Muhammad 'Ali both for his excellent English and explanatory notes.[24] Importantly, the Muhammad 'Ali translation became the version adopted by the Nation of Islam, both under the stewardship of Elijah Muhammad and current leader Louis Farrakhan.

Muhammad 'Ali's biases show through, however. Consistent with his Lahori-Ahmadi creed, Muhammad 'Ali sought to eschew any reference to miracles.

He sometimes departed from a faithful rendering of the original Arabic, as in the second chapter[25] in which the Qur'an replicates the Biblical story of Moses striking the rock for water,[26] and states "idrib bi asaka al-hajr," literally, "strike the rock with your staff."

Muhammad 'Ali, however, changed the text to "March on to the rock with your staff," an interpretation for which the Arabic construction does not allow.

Both Muhammad 'Ali's disbelief in the miraculous and his disdain for Judaism and Christianity undercut his work in other ways.

The Qur'an makes frequent mention of jinn (spirits), from which the English word "genie" is derived.

Muhammad 'Ali, curiously, argues that the Qur'an equates jinn with Jews and Christians.[27] While the Qur'an supports the story of Jesus' virgin birth,[28] Muhammad 'Ali denies it, providing a footnote to deny that the Qur'an was referring to anything miraculous.[29]

Despite its blatant sectarian warp, Muhammad 'Ali's translation—now in its seventh edition[30]—has formed the basis for many later works, even if the majority of both Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims avoid directly acknowledging or using his translation.

Nevertheless, among the Lahoris, many of whom live in the United States, Muhammad 'Ali's work remains the definitive translation.

Will show you more evidence....

[znanwalla]

how come our holy dua is made from the book of flaws[as per you and her] ?

No it is not made necessarily from your flawed texts as the entire quran is protected and preserved in its original form in the Manifest Imam from the pure progeny of the Prophet SAW ! A like thereof may have "similarities" which simply means that certain portions may be correct - not all ! You haven't answered which is the SURA which Allah ordained that muslims recite as a Du'a ! Your bollywood acting does not impress me....you using "our Du'a" and all this crap about being an Ismaili is just a fairy tale.....you are talking as if you are the only guys in twon who have the "quran"? actually it is the other way around and that is why we habe what we have and what you have is not what we have ! get the drift pal ?

[znanwalla]

Saudi-endorsed Translations
The Holy Qur'an: Translation and Commentary. By Abdullah Yusuf 'Ali.

Among those Qur'an translations which found Saudi favor and, therefore, wide distribution, was the Abdullah Yusuf 'Ali (1872-1952) rendition[38] that, from its first appearance in 1934 until very recently, was the most popular English version among Muslims.

While not an Islamic scholar in any formal sense, Yusuf 'Ali, an Indian civil servant, had studied classics at Cambridge University, graduated as a lawyer from Lincoln's Inn in London, and was gifted with an eloquent, vivid writing style.

He sought to convey the music and richness of the Arabic with poetic English versification.

While his rendering of the text is not bad, there are serious problems in his copious footnotes; in many cases, he reproduces the exegetical material from medieval texts without making any effort at contextualization.

Writing at a time both of growing Arab animosity toward Zionism and in a milieu that condoned anti-Semitism, Yusuf 'Ali constructed his oeuvre as a polemic against Jews.

Several Muslim scholars have built upon the Yusuf 'Ali translation.[39] In 1989, Saudi Arabia's Ar-Rajhi banking company financed the U.S.-based Amana Corporation's project to revise the translation to reflect an interpretation more in conjunction with the line of Islamic thought followed in Saudi Arabia.

Ar-Rahji offered the resulting version for free to mosques, schools, and libraries throughout the world.

The footnoted commentary about Jews remained so egregious that, in April 2002, the Los Angeles school district banned its use at local schools.[40]

While the Yusuf 'Ali translation still remains in publication, it has lost influence because of its dated language and the appearance of more recent works whose publication and distribution the Saudi government has also sought to subsidize.

The Meaning of the Glorious Koran. By Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall.

Marmaduke Pickthall (1875-1936) was the son of an Anglican clergyman who traveled to the East and acquired fluency in Arabic, Turkish, and Urdu. In 1920, he traveled to India and became a journalist for Muslim newspapers as well as headmaster of a Muslim boys' school.[31]

While teaching in Hyderabad, Pickthall took a two-year sabbatical to complete his translation[32] .

He first endorsed the position of Muslim scholars that the Qur'an was untranslatable but maintained that the general meaning of the text could still be conveyed to English speakers.

Aware that heavily annotated works detracted from focus on the actual text, Pickthall provided few explanatory notes and tried to let the text speak for itself.

As much as Pickthall strove to maintain the spirit of the Qur'an, he was, nonetheless, heavily influenced by Muhammad 'Ali, whom he had met in London.

He adopted Muhammad 'Ali's bias against descriptions of miracles and argued, for example, that the Qur'anic description of Muhammad's night voyage to the heavens[35] was just a vision,[36] even though most Muslim theologians argue that it should be taken literally.

While Pickthall's work was popular in the first half of the twentieth century and, therefore, historically important, its current demand is limited by its archaic prose and lack of annotation.

Perhaps the death knell for the Pickthall translation's use has been the Saudi government's decision to distribute other translations free of charge.

[znanwalla]

The Qur'an in the English Language. By Muhammad Taqi al-Din al-Hilali and Muhammad Muhsin Khan.

Now the most widely disseminated Qur'an in most Islamic bookstores and Sunni mosques throughout the English-speaking world, this new translation[41] is meant to replace the Yusuf 'Ali edition and comes with a seal of approval from both the University of Medina and the Saudi Dar al-Ifta.

Whereas most other translators have tried to render the Qur'an applicable to a modern readership, this Saudi-financed venture tries to impose the commentaries of Tabari (d. 923 C.E.), Qurtubi (d. 1273 C.E.), and Ibn Kathir (d. 1372 C.E.), medievalists who knew nothing of modern concepts of pluralism.

The numerous interpolations make this translation particularly problematic, especially for American Muslims who, in the aftermath of 9-11, are struggling to show that Islam is a religion of tolerance.

From the beginning, the Hilali and Muhsin Khan translation reads more like a supremacist Muslim, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian polemic than a rendition of the Islamic scripture.

In the first sura, for example, verses which are universally accepted as, "Guide us to the straight path, the path of those whom You have favored, not of those who have incurred Your wrath, nor of those who have gone astray"[43] become, "Guide us to the Straight Way, the way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)."[44]

What is particularly egregious about this interpolation is that it is followed by an extremely long footnote to justify its hate based on traditions from medieval texts.

Contemporary political disputes also pollute the translation, marring what should be a reflection of timeless religion.

Whereas the Qur'an reports Moses's address to the Israelites as "O my people! Enter the Holy Land that God has assigned unto you,"[45] this Saudi version twists the verse with modern politics, writing, "O my people! Enter the holy land (Palestine)."

The appendix includes a polemical comparison of Jesus and Muhammad, reporting that the former had no claim to divinity.[46]

From a Muslim perspective, what Jesus did or did not do should be drawn from the Qur'anic text, not an appendix, and certainly not by Muslim readings of the gospels.

In fact, while the Qur'an does take issue with the Christian claims of divinity for Jesus, it views him, along with his mother Mary, as being truly blessed and peaceful, much in concordance with the general Christian belief.[47]

Although this Saudi-sponsored effort, undertaken before 9-11, is a serious liability for American Muslims in particular, it still remains present in Sunni mosques, probably because of its free distribution by the Saudi government.

[znanwalla]

Bucking the Saudi Orthodoxy
The Message of the Qur'an. By Muhammad Asad.

Muhammad Asad, for example, presents a rendering that is simple and straightforward.[48] A Jewish convert to Islam, the former Leopold Weiss (1900-1992) sought to depart from the traditional exegetic approaches and reflect independent thought.

Asad, an Austrian journalist, was well-versed in the Jewish and Christian scriptures and brought this knowledge to bear in the form of erudite footnotes.

Strangely, though, he chose to interpolate material in his translation of chapter 37 to show that the sacrificial son was Ishmael and not Isaac.[49]

This is rather unusual, for while most contemporary Muslims opine that Ishmael was the sacrificial son, early exegetes differed on his identity, and as is well known, the Bible clearly states that it was Isaac (Genesis 22:9).[50]

Indicative of the desire and drive of Saudi Arabia to impose a Salafi[51] interpretation upon the Muslim world, the kingdom has banned Muhammad's work over some creedal issues.

Because the Saudi government subsidizes the publication and distribution of so many translations, the ban has in effect made Asad's translation both expensive and difficult to obtain.

Nevertheless, it remains one of the best translations available, both in terms of its comprehensible English and generally knowledgeable annotations.

[shiraz.virani]

Virani, Perhaps you went to consult your Imam Maherally....we all work and do not make excuses and in any case nobody asked you as nobody cares what you do...now isn't it true that on the Bohra site you have been posting nasty stuff about the ismailis?. You have even talked about the dasond too. Additionally you have been rather very active on another Ismaili site too and saying nasty things about our Imam including at Youtube?. Your profile on these sites showed you were in Vancouver and not Houston...am I right?

nah i cannot live in canada....its too cold for me, houston is just right !

plus, you have lost your creditibility sister....because you got your chaddi buddy [ sister zina ] to help you !!! how sad sister .....haroon_adel was right when he called you a pussy

bohra site ? again the blame game ???

sister i can assure you, that iam not on any site but ismaili.net....allah[swt] is watching and there is no need for me to lie.

which another ismaili site are you talking about ?

just because you got left and right from me, doesnt mean that you should blame me for almost everything....anyways let my brothers and sisters watch and decide for themselves who is frustrated and who came out clean.

btw....you said earlier on that the ismaili "Tariqa" can change?...where did you read this? I hope it wasn't in the "Wahabbi chronicle" ? do you know what is a "Tariqa" to begin with ? what is the Ismaili Creed? "Nizari" Ismailis ! can it ever change?

again misquoting me sister !

i said the way of practise of certain traditions can change, but the essence remain the same !!!

kindly show me whats wrong with what i said ?

What is the purpose of the interpolations and fabrications your ancestors concocted? now this is the question muslims must ask? don't use the word "quran" surreptiously, if you will...and I will tell you why?

you havent shown even a single fabrication from the current quran....all you tried to do is dig the decayed bones of your forefathers and named it a hadith .....just show us one flaw !!!

we are waiting sister .....if quran is fabricated why do you need hadiths assistance to prove your statement.....if quran is fabricated [as per you] then it should be very easy for genious like you to say ok this hadith is manipulated and this isnt

so kindly show us which verse is real and which is fabricated ?

"..yet when the christians try to find flaws with quran, they couldnt...because there isnt any !!! ..."

Now I hope it wasn't your Imam Maherally who said this to you? first of all he needs a speech therapy..so convey my message to him...

The first translations to English were not undertaken by Muslims but by Christians who sought to debunk Islam and aid in the conversion of Muslims to Christianity.

Alexander Ross, chaplain to Charles I (r. 1625-49) and the first to embark on the translation process, subtitled his 1649 work as "newly Englished for the satisfaction for all that desire to look into the Turkish vanities."[14] Interestingly, Ross did not speak Arabic and relied on secondarily translating from the French, a language in which he was not well-schooled. He, therefore, based his interpretation on a problematic rendition by Andrew Du Ryer.

According to George Sale (1697-1736), "[Du Ryer's] performance … is far from being a just translation; there being mistakes in every page, besides frequent transpositions, omissions and additions, faults."[15]

Most eighteenth and nineteenth century translations were undertaken by authors without strong background in Islam.

As they were goaded by the urge to answer Christian polemic, their forgettable works do not reflect any intellectual depth; as such, copies are extremely rare.

Among the best known, albeit pejorative, English-language analyses of Islam during this time were those by Christian authors such as George Sale, John Rodwell (1808-1900), Edward Palmer (1840-1882), and Sir William Muir (1819-1905).[16]

Of these, Sale was probably the most important because he wrote a detailed critique about earlier translations.[17]

His work became the standard reference for all English readers until almost the end of the nineteenth century.[18] However, his work was limited by his lack of access to public libraries forcing him to rely only upon material in his personal collection.[19]

While Sale gave the impression that he based his translation on the Arabic text, others have suggested that he relied on an earlier Latin translation.[20]

Sale did not insert verse numbers into his work, nor did he insert footnotes or other explanations. The result, therefore, is a work that is extremely difficult to comprehend.

Muslims view the Qur'an as God's direct words revealed in Arabic to the Prophet Muhammad (d. 632).[1] Because the Qur'an stresses its Arabic nature, Muslim scholars believe that any translation cannot be more than an approximate interpretation, intended only as a tool for the study and understanding of the original Arabic text.[2] Since fewer than 20 percent of Muslims speak Arabic, this means that most Muslims study the text only in translation which are corrupt and faulty.

So how accurate are the Qur'an's renderings into English? The record is mixed.

Some are simply poor translations. Others adopt sectarian biases, and those that are funded by Saudi Arabia often insert political annotation.

Since translators seek to convey not only text but also meaning, many rely on the interpretation (tafsir) of medieval scholars in order to conform to an "orthodox" reading

ha ha ha ha...... even if we accept that it wasnt muslim then how come nobody found flaws with the quran in first place ???

you yourself said that they werent able to gather enough information which is enough for anyone reading this know why they tried to debunk islam

its really funny, you yourself ask a question and you yourself answer it....great job !!!



600 - 1000

Salman the Persian translated Fatiha from Arabic to Persian.

1000s

Persian translation which is called "Qur'an Quds" which was translated by an unknown translator.

1100s

1142-43, Latin, Lex Mahumet pseudoprophete, — , by a group led by Robert of Ketton, under direction of Peter the Venerable

1200s

1193-1216 Latin, an improved Latin translation from Arabic by Marco de Toledo (fl. 1193-1216)

1500s

1543 reprint Latin text of Lex Mahumet pseudoprophete (1143), edited by Theodor Bibliander [3]

1547 Italian, at Venice

1600s

1616 German, Alcoranus Mahometicus from Italian by S. Schweigger, Nuremberg

1647 French, L'Alcoran de Mahomet from Arabic by Andre du Ryer, the third from the original Arabic directly into a European language, the first two being to Latin (1100s, 1200s).

1649 English, L'Alcoran de Mahomet from the French by Alexander Ross

1658Dutch, Mahomets Alkoran translated from the French by Hendrik Jan Glasemaker

1698 Latin, a third Latin translation from Arabic, extensively annotated, sometimes from a Christian perspective, preceded by a biography of the Prophet and a discussion of Islamic doctrines, by Father Louis Maracci, Padua [4]

1700s

1734, English, KORAN, Commonly called The Alcoran of Mohammed, Translated into English immediately from the Original Arabic; with Explanatory Notes and Commentaries. To which is prefixed a Preliminary Discourse, by George Sale; evidently making use of the Latin of Maracci (Padua 1698). One of the copies owned by American Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, on which Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, was sworn.

1800s

1841-??-??, Flügel’s text formed the foundation of modern Qur’an research and the basis for several new translations into European languages. [www.idc.nl/pdf/dissemination_quran.pdf]

1858 Polish Quran (al Quran) by Jan Murza Tarak Buczacki

1861-??-??, English, The Quran by John Medows Rodwell

1880,English THE QUR’ÂN by Edward Henry Palmer

1886, Bengali, ? by Girish Chandra Sen

1900s

1902. Urdu, Tarjama Quran by Maulana Aashiq Ilahi Meeruti,.

1905. Urdu, Bayanul Quran by Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi,.

1910. Urdu, Kanzul Iman by Aalahazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan,.

1910.English, The Quran by Dr. Mirza Abul Fazl, Arabic Text and English Translation Arranged Chronologically with an Abstract (Allahabad).

1915-19. Urdu, Tarjama Shaikhul Hind by Shaikhul Hind Maulana Mahmood Hasan Deobandi,.

1917-??-??, English, The Holy Qur'an — , by Maulana Muhammad Ali, ISBN 0-913321-11-7.[6]

1930-??-??, English, The Meaning of the Glorious Koran — , by Marmaduke Pickthall, ISBN 1-879402-51-3 [7] [8]

1934-??-??, English, The Holy Qur'an: Text, Translation and Commentary — , by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, ISBN 0-915957-76-0.

1936, Bosnian, Kur´an by Hafiz Muhamed Pandža and Džemaludin Čaušević

1936, Hebrew, "AlQur'an", by Josef Rivlin.

1955-, English, The Koran Interpreted: A Translation — , by Arthur John Arberry, ISBN 0-684-82507-4.

1971. English, The Quran, by Muhammad Zafrulla Khan (Curzon Press).

1971, Hebrew, "HaQur'an", by Aharon Ben Shemesh.

1974. English, The Message of the Qur'an : Presented in Perspective, by Dr. Hashim Amir Ali (Hyderabad, Deccan, India). He translated the Qur`an into English and arranged it according to chronological order, ISBN 0-8048-0976-3.

1978. Kannada, Divya Qur'an, Qur'an Majid, (An effort of six scholars: Mawlana Shah Abd al-Qadir, Mawlana Sayyid, Abu Raihan Ahmed Noori, Abd Allah Sahib, I’jaz al-Din and Abd al-Ghaffar), 2 vol. Bangalore 1978, p. 1400.

1981, English, Al Qur'aan, by As Sayyid Imam Isa Al Haadi Al Mahdi, founder of the Ansaaru Allah Community of the West

1985, English, Noble Qur'an — , by Muhammad Muhsin Khan.

1985, English, The Qur'an: First American Version, by T. B. Irving.

1986 Polish Koran by Józef Bielawski

1987 Hungarian Korán by Róbert Simon

1989-05-??, English, The Qur'an — , by M. H. Shakir ISBN 0-940368-16-1.

1990's Khowar Chitrali Language (Pakistan) (in the North West of Pakistan bordering Afghanistan) Qari Syed Bazurg Shah Al-Azhari (Sitara Imtiaz) in early 1990s

1991.English, The Clarion Call Of The Eternal Qur-aan, by Muhammad Khalilur Rahman, (Dhaka, Bangladesh).

1991, Hindi, Quran Sharif: Anuwad awr VyakhyaArshad Madani & Pro Sulaiman 1991. Jamiat Ulama Hind, New Delhi, India

1993 Kanzul-i-iman Sindhi Language (Pakistan) by Mufti Muhammad Raheem Sikandri Pir jo Goth Dargah Shareef Pir Pagara.

1996, English, El's Holy Qur'aan, by Malachi Z. York for the Holy Tabernacle Ministries

1998-??-??,Swedish language, Koranens budskap — , by Mohammed Knut Bernström

2000's

2001, English "The Holy Quran" By (Late)Prof.Dr.S.M.Afzal-ur-Rahman.

2005, English, The Noble Qur'an: A New Rendering of its Meaning in English by AbdalHaqq and Aisha Bewley.

2006, English, "Quran: a Reformist Translation", By Edip Yuksel, Layth al-Shaiban, Martha Schulte/Nafeh BrainbowPress.

2003, English, "The Message: God's Revelation to Humanity", By ProgressiveMuslims.Org.

2003, English, The Qur'an As It Explains Itself by Shabbir Ahmed.

2005, English, The Qur'an With a Phrase-by-Phrase English Translation by Ali Quli Qara'i.

2004, English, "The Qur'an" (Oxford World Classics) by M.A.S Abdel Haleem

2007, English, The Glorious Qur’an (Interpretation of the Meaning of) by Professor (Dr.) Syed Vickar AhamedISBN 978-1-879402-68-3

2005, Hebrew, "HaQur'an", by Uri Rubin.

2007, Estonian, "Koraan", By Haljand Udam

2008, English, Irfan-Ul-Quran translated by Shaykh ul Islam Dr.(Prof.) Muhammad Tahir-Ul-Qadri

[shiraz.virani]

Strangely, though, he chose to interpolate material in his translation of chapter 37 to show that the sacrificial son was Ishmael and not Isaac.[49]

how is is interpolate sister ?? the sacrificial son was ishmael[as] and not isaac.....forget about english translation, the original arabic translation talks about ishmael and not issac.

genious znanwalla, stop making fool of yourself...

This is rather unusual, for while most contemporary Muslims opine that Ishmael was the sacrificial son, early exegetes differed on his identity, and as is well known, the Bible clearly states that it was Isaac (Genesis 22:9).[50]

and that why allah[swt] clearly mentioned in quran that bible is corrupt

Indicative of the desire and drive of Saudi Arabia to impose a Salafi[51] interpretation upon the Muslim world, the kingdom has banned Muhammad's work over some creedal issues.

for what ?? for saying ishmael was to be sacrificed ???

Because the Saudi government subsidizes the publication and distribution of so many translations, the ban has in effect made Asad's translation both expensive and difficult to obtain.

yet you find it on www.islamicity.com

Nevertheless, it remains one of the best translations available, both in terms of its comprehensible English and generally knowledgeable annotations.

correcto !!!

[shiraz.virani]

The Qur'an in the English Language. By Muhammad Taqi al-Din al-Hilali and Muhammad Muhsin Khan.

Now the most widely disseminated Qur'an in most Islamic bookstores and Sunni mosques throughout the English-speaking world, this new translation[41] is meant to replace the Yusuf 'Ali edition and comes with a seal of approval from both the University of Medina and the Saudi Dar al-Ifta.

Whereas most other translators have tried to render the Qur'an applicable to a modern readership, this Saudi-financed venture tries to impose the commentaries of Tabari (d. 923 C.E.), Qurtubi (d. 1273 C.E.), and Ibn Kathir (d. 1372 C.E.), medievalists who knew nothing of modern concepts of pluralism.

and yet you find pickhtall and abdullah yusufali in most part of middle eastern countries....the problem with HILALI and KHAN was they used some hardcore line [ just like meherali used for ismailis ] and so we dont find their tanslation not only in masjids but also on major islamic websites ....

The numerous interpolations make this translation particularly problematic, especially for American Muslims who, in the aftermath of 9-11, are struggling to show that Islam is a religion of tolerance.

From the beginning, the Hilali and Muhsin Khan translation reads more like a supremacist Muslim, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian polemic than a rendition of the Islamic scripture.

In the first sura, for example, verses which are universally accepted as, "Guide us to the straight path, the path of those whom You have favored, not of those who have incurred Your wrath, nor of those who have gone astray"[43] become, "Guide us to the Straight Way, the way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)."[44]

What is particularly egregious about this interpolation is that it is followed by an extremely long footnote to justify its hate based on traditions from medieval texts.

Contemporary political disputes also pollute the translation, marring what should be a reflection of timeless religion.

Whereas the Qur'an reports Moses's address to the Israelites as "O my people! Enter the Holy Land that God has assigned unto you,"[45] this Saudi version twists the verse with modern politics, writing, "O my people! Enter the holy land (Palestine)."

The appendix includes a polemical comparison of Jesus and Muhammad, reporting that the former had no claim to divinity.[46]

From a Muslim perspective, what Jesus did or did not do should be drawn from the Qur'anic text, not an appendix, and certainly not by Muslim readings of the gospels.

In fact, while the Qur'an does take issue with the Christian claims of divinity for Jesus, it views him, along with his mother Mary, as being truly blessed and peaceful, much in concordance with the general Christian belief.[47]

Although this Saudi-sponsored effort, undertaken before 9-11, is a serious liability for American Muslims in particular, it still remains present in Sunni mosques, probably because of its free distribution by the Saudi government.

how is @ above even related to current topic ??

[shiraz.virani]

if he did not then what's the purpose of quran[ as a book] in first place ??
its like saying ok rasool[saw] you duty is to deliver the message...thats it !! forget about the compilation ......do you think allah[swt] doesnt know ?

44:58 (O Prophet) We have made this Qur’an easy in your tongue, in order that they may take it to heart. ....so what does this ayah indicate? who are "they"? mankind ! and what does "to heart" imply?

duh !!!

lets read it again !

44:58 (Picktall) And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.

44:58 (Asad) THUS, THEN, [O Prophet,] have We made this [divine writ] easy to understand, in thine own [human] tongue, so that men might take it to heart

44:58 (Y. Ali) Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed.


tafsir just for sister znanwalla :

(And We have made (this Scripture) easy in your language) We have made easy for you the recitation of the Qur'an (only that they may heed) that they may take admonition by means of the Qur'an.

************************************************************

For We have made it easy, We have facilitated the Qur’ān, in your tongue, in your language, so that the Arabs may understand it from you, that perhaps they may remember, [that perhaps] they may be admonished and become believers — but they do not believe.

************************************************************

hope its clear from what allah[swt] is talking about

004.068
YUSUFALI: And We should have shown them the Straight Way.
PICKTHAL: And should guide them unto a straight path.
SHAKIR: And We would certainly have guided them in the right path.
004.069

4:68 (Picktall) And should guide them unto a straight path.

4:69 (Picktall) Whoso obeyeth Allah and the messenger, they are with those unto whom Allah hath shown favor, of the Prophets and the saints and the martyrs and the righteous. The best of company are they!

4:70 (Picktall) Such is the bounty of Allah, and Allah sufficeth as knower.



Tafsir just for sister znanwalla :

And We would have guided them to a straight path. Some Companions said to the Prophet (s): ‘How will we be able to see you in Paradise, when you will be in the highest stations and we will be lower than you?’, and so the following was revealed

************************************************************

Whoever obeys God and the Messenger, in what he commands, they are with those whom God has blessed of the prophets and the truthful, that is, the most excellent of the Prophet’s Companions, because of the fullness of their truthfulness and their affirmation of the truth; and the martyrs, those slain in the path of God; and the righteous, [all those] other than the ones mentioned. What fine companions they are!, in Paradise, since in it one will enjoy seeing them, visiting them and being in their presence, even though they will be in the highest stations in relation to others.

***********************************************************

That, namely, their being with those mentioned (dhālika, ‘that’, is the subject, the predicate of which is [the following]) is bounty from God, with which He has favoured them, and not because they have earned it through their obedience. God suffices as Knower, of the reward of the Hereafter, in other words, trust in what He has told you: None can tell you like One Who is aware [Q. 35:14].

I simply fail to understand your stubborness - so what is the bounty of Allah? anyone who clings to Imam maherally gets the bounty of Iblis !!....

well iam not allah[swt] nouzbillah sister....so lets just leave it on allah[swt] to decide on whom there is his bounty and who will be in hell fire.

The first clue one has is that the "path" of your Imam M, which is NOT straight will be crooked and this will be the path of the unjust ones as per Allah's covenant with Abraham that HIS covenant will NOT reach the unjust or the cursed ones !

exactly !

Allah guides unto HIS NOOR whomsoever HE Wills...God does not wish to torture any soul but again this is an inexorable law of Nature that man shall be responsible for all his evil behaviour - passion - anger - greed - lust - jealousy and degenerate tendencies and so they will undergo MASKH (Transformation) and the experience of DHULMAT, resulting as retributive consequences, equal in proportion to the
karma .....truly sad !

psst ...psst.....allah guides to his light whoever he wants is again mentioned in uthmanic book[as per you] lol

khair , ill pray for your recovery sister.

[zina.khan]

"...Whoever obeys God and the Messenger, in what he commands..."

but the question is did the majority of you follow the Prophet ?

33:36 “IT IS NOT FOR TRUE BELIEVERS - MEN OR WOMEN - TO TAKE THEIR CHOICE IN THEIR AFFAIRS IF ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE DECREE OTHERWISE. HE THAT DISOBEYS ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE STRAYS FAR INDEED.”

49:1-2 “BELIEVERS DO NOT BE FORWARD IN THE PRESENCE OF ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE. HAVE FEAR OF ALLAH: HE HEARS ALL AND KNOWS ALL. BELIEVERS DO NOT RAISE YOUR VOICE ABOVE THE VOICE OF THE PROPHET, NOR SPEAK ALOUD WHEN SPEAKING TO HIM AS YOU DO TO ONE ANOTHER. LEST YOUR LABOUR SHOULD COME TO NOTHING WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE.”

59:8 “WHATEVER THE PROPHET GIVES YOU, ACCEPT IT AND WHATEVER HE FORBIDS YOU FORBEAR IT.”...so did your ancestors accept what the Prophet had sent to them ? did they follow all that he told them to follow ?

You are saying that the original arabic compilation is okay though not the translations....but 80% of the muslims are non-arabic speaking...and so what you are now conceding that they are all reading faulty texts and narrations - is that why muslims find themselves in turbulence.... they cannot read or write arabic....

How is it possible that the arabic text is okay, the translations are not ? the translations are done from where? how many translations are there? so many? why would all of them not be okay if the original arabic compilation is okay ?...

Let me ask you....in this original arabic text that you so much boast about, are all the longer suras in the front? and the shorter ones at the end? is the ayah about perfection of Islam also in Sura 5? if so then the arabic text is also flawed....

[shiraz.virani]

how come our holy dua is made from the book of flaws[as per you and her] ?

No it is not made necessarily from your flawed texts as the entire quran is protected and preserved in its original form in the Manifest Imam from the pure progeny of the Prophet SAW ! A like thereof may have "similarities" which simply means that certain portions may be correct - not all ! You haven't answered which is the SURA which Allah ordained that muslims recite as a Du'a ! Your bollywood acting does not impress me....you using "our Du'a" and all this crap about being an Ismaili is just a fairy tale.....you are talking as if you are the only guys in twon who have the "quran"? actually it is the other way around and that is why we habe what we have and what you have is not what we have ! get the drift pal ?

oh really ?? its is preserved in imam ??
then i think h.uthman must be a mind reader who read what is in imam ali[as]'s heart who was busy collecting quran

seriously all your arguements are full of foolishness.

chalo if quran is in imam[as you say] then how come each and every surah matches that of present quran ???

do yourself a favor, go to JK [just for once] ...take dua book in your hand....see the surah and aayat number....then go to council ask them to hand you over the holy quran[uthmanic as per you] and then match !!

bingo !!! every verse matches !

plus i have already answered your question , this is the fourth time ok...here it goes

allah[swt] has ordained any verse to be recited as prayer ...any verse.....again ANY VERSE

do you want me to translate this in hindi,gujarati or urdu ???

clear? you sure ? postitive ?

ok let us continue then

well you should say that we should learn some bollywood skills from you and your sister[zina] who run from one topic to another which you called strategy, lol

iam not actor...i answered all you question but when i ask for the answer to my question...you say ....oh we dont follow quran....we just follow the quran of imam e zaman, and when i ask you how come imam e zmans quran has the same exact surah and verse numbers that matches to that of present quran....you as usual curse me or try to say some crap...just to divert the topic

this time iam focuse sister....so kindly tell us why do we recite our holy dua from the same present quran ?[uthmanic as per you]

you said its in imam...lemme ask you how is it possible that all 7surahs mentioned in quran matches to that of imam e zamans quran ???

magic !!!!


stop fooling my brothers for gods sake.....you have already lost your creditibility......please stop mocking your ownself !!!

[zina.khan]

THE QUR'AN SAYS:

"To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"

"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."

"We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."

[Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104]

do you find this in your arabic version pal?

It seems God wanted to give Avraham a double blessing, through Ishmael and through Isaac, and ordered that Ishmael's descendents should live in the desert of Arabia and Isaac's in Canaan.

So does then The Qur'an recognize the Land of Israel as the heritage of the Jews and it explains that, before the Last Judgment, Jews will return to dwell there. What does your arabic text say?

THE LAND OF ISRAEL IN QUR'ANIC EXEGESIS

The fundamentalist Muslim program to use Islam as an instrument for political warfare against Jews finds a major obstacle in the Qur'an itself.

What does your arabic text say?

Both the Bible and the Qur'an state quite clearly that the right of the Israelites to the Land of Israel does not depend on conquest and colonization. This right flows from the will of almighty God Himself....so do you agree with what the quran says?

Both the Jewish and Islamic Scriptures teach that God, through His chosen servant Moses, decided to free the offspring of Jacob from slavery in Egypt and to constitute them as heirs of the Promised Land.

Whoever claims that Jewish sovereignty over the Land of Israel is something new and rooted in human politics denies divine revelation and divine prophecy as explicitly expressed in the Quran.

The Qur'an relates the words by which Moses ordered the Israelites to conquer the Land:

"And [remember] when Moses said to his people: 'O my people, call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when he produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave to you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.'" [Qur'an 5:20-21]

does this appear in your text....don't try to teach me "tafsirs"...answer me !

Moreover - and those who try to use Islam as a weapon against Israel always conveniently ignore this point - the Holy Qur'an explicitly refers to the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel before the Last Judgment - where it says:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd.'" [Qur'an 17:104]

So now what is your viewpoint? I have shown you the quranic views...

[shiraz.virani]

sister zina AKA znanpurwalla

"...Whoever obeys God and the Messenger, in what he commands..."

but the question is did the majority of you follow the Prophet ?

33:36 “IT IS NOT FOR TRUE BELIEVERS - MEN OR WOMEN - TO TAKE THEIR CHOICE IN THEIR AFFAIRS IF ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE DECREE OTHERWISE. HE THAT DISOBEYS ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE STRAYS FAR INDEED.”

49:1-2 “BELIEVERS DO NOT BE FORWARD IN THE PRESENCE OF ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE. HAVE FEAR OF ALLAH: HE HEARS ALL AND KNOWS ALL. BELIEVERS DO NOT RAISE YOUR VOICE ABOVE THE VOICE OF THE PROPHET, NOR SPEAK ALOUD WHEN SPEAKING TO HIM AS YOU DO TO ONE ANOTHER. LEST YOUR LABOUR SHOULD COME TO NOTHING WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE.”

59:8 “WHATEVER THE PROPHET GIVES YOU, ACCEPT IT AND WHATEVER HE FORBIDS YOU FORBEAR IT.”...so did your ancestors accept what the Prophet had sent to them ? did they follow all that he told them to follow ?

You are saying that the original arabic compilation is okay though not the translations....but 80% of the muslims are non-arabic speaking...and so what you are now conceding that they are all reading faulty texts and narrations - is that why muslims find themselves in turbulence.... they cannot read or write arabic....

i agree with you....but again as usual you just read without understanding !

what i said was quran itseld was naazil in arabic and hence translated in english by those who accepted islam and learned araby in 1st place

muhammad yusufali
pickhtall
muhammad asad are few examples

they dint puffed themselves like you do without any knowledge sister....they learned the language 1st !!

How is it possible that the arabic text is okay, the translations are not ? the translations are done from where? how many translations are there? so many? why would all of them not be okay if the original arabic compilation is okay ?...

again getting me wrong.....please read @ above and feel enlightened as i cannot write the very same thing again and again

Let me ask you....in this original arabic text that you so much boast about, are all the longer suras in the front? and the shorter ones at the end? is the ayah about perfection of Islam also in Sura 5? if so then the arabic text is also flawed....

lol,what does long and short surah have to do with the topic in the first place ?

longer surah in front ???

are you talking about surah fatehah ?? which barely has 7 verse ? and which barely takes a min to read the whole thing !

and again about surah 5 the perfection of islam......what does that has to do with coming at the end or start....it is just telling you that there are no more laws[haram/halal] to come !!

then according to you....surah mariam should be the 1st surah because jesus[pbuh] lived way before rasool[saw] ?????????

you dont even make any sense !

[zina.khan]

While the Saudis and Wahabbis like you may seek to monopolize Qur'anic interpretation among the Sunni community through the use of funding from the petro dollars, many Shi'ites reject this annotation.

Syed V. Mir Ahmed 'Ali, an Indian scholar of Arabic and Persian, has produced a translation that has become the standard Shi'ite translation

The copious instructions on Shi'ite doctrine and ritual observances ensure that the audience remains almost exclusively Shi'ite.

The translation carries gravitas that the previous Shi'ite rendition did not have, since it is written, as the term 'Syed' (or sayyid) indicates, by a descendant of Muhammad and because it includes commentary by one of the highest-ranking authorities in contemporary Shi'ism...so what are you asking foolish questions and boasting so much for?

[zina.khan]

brother, you said the arabic version was perfect...it is not ! you are now making excuses unduly ! Allah's book was PERSPICOUS ! neither the arabic version nor the translations are perfect....you are free to stay deluded...you are just making mention of one Sura....all the shorter ones are at the end? all the longer ones are at the beginning....does this not affect the flow and context? it does...

okay lets do a check now....read your arabic version and let me know

How many Makki Surahs (chapters) are there in your arabic Quran?

How many Madani Surahs (chapters) are there ?

How many Manzils (stages) are there ?

How many Paara or Juz (parts) are there ?

How many Surahs (chapters) are there ?

How many Rukoo (paragraphs) are there ?

How many times is the word 'Allah' repeated ?

How many different types of Aayaath (verses) are there in the Quran?

How many Aayaath (verses) on Sajda (prostat ion) are there

In which Paara (part) and Surah (chapter) do you find the first verse about Sajda (prostation) ?

How many times has the Quran stressed about Salaat (prayer)?

Once you give me the answers we will know if your arabic version is correct or not vis a vis the translations or are they both of the same quality...

[znanwalla]

Thank you so much sister Zina ! I want you to know how much I appreciate your help and support...may God bless you dear !

You are right in saying that Sh'ias do have their own translations which the majority follow...not only that but one must also remember that we are a Sufi Tariqa also and so additionally the translations by the Sufis which have credibility amongst the Sufis also is an option for us....let me explain a bit....

The Shi'ites have their translation, and so, too, do the Sufis... The creedal bias of Abdalhaqq and Aisha Bewleys' Sufi-inspired work is low indeed...the work is in excellent, readable English, rendered in a manner that is neither flowery nor prosaic.

The translators seem to have fulfilled their "main objective in presenting this new rendering: to allow the meaning of the original, as far as possible, to come straight through."

The lack of footnotes allows the reader to see the text as it is, there is little evidence of sectarian bias in the actual translation.

Because of their Sufi leanings, the translators are not likely to be endorsed by the mainstream Islamic religious trusts and most definitely not by the Saudi religious foundations.

The result is that an excellent work will most probably remain expensive and unavailable at most Wahabbi funded libraries and mosques....however Ismailis have access to both Sh'ia and Sufi narrations which offer a better qualitative option and comparatively others are not even exposed to them...and then they are questioning ismailis because of their own ignorance...and obscurantist views...

Sister you have raised a very interesting point about the arabs and the Jews....but Virani simply swept it under the carpet....I do not believe that Islam is the factor preventing normalization between Arabs and the State of Israel.

The real problem is that members of the ruling classes in Arab countries believe their authority and power would be threatned by democracy, modernization, and education in the Arab world. So they fund puppets everywhere to further their despotic agenda....

They use a distorted interpretation of Islam as a political tool, and unfortunately the majority of uneducated folks believe their poisonous propaganda.

I believe that we must return to the time when Islam was in the vanguard of scientific progress and interfaith dialogue. Instead of following false "leaders" who will only take us to the pits of darkness.

Noteworthy also is the fact that throughout, the translators render the Arabic Allah as God, an astute choice, since the question of why many Muslims refuse to use the word God as a functional translation has created the misconception for many that Muslims worship a different deity than the Judeo-Christian creator.

Qur'anic English-language translation should stand to compete with the Saudi-financed translations.

The field remains open for future attempts to reflect the true meaning of the Qur'an because this mandates not only translation but also a better understanding of context.

The revisionist works of scholars such as John Wansbrough, Michael Cook, Patricia Crone, Christoph Luxenberg, Gerd-Rudiger Puin, and Andrew Rippin, indicate that there is much that is unclear about the early history and interpretation of the Qur'an. ...obviously even the arabic text compiled by them, is equally flawed

Their theories about such key elements as the influence of contemporary politics should be addressed in any work seeking to elucidate Islam's main document...While seeking to stick to linguistic accuracy, they make some basic linguistic errors.

Arabic words are built from three-letter roots to which are added prefixes, infixes, suffixes, and vowels, and their context can lead to a wide range of meanings.

For example, ahl ad-dhikr both is taken as "people of the reminder" and "people of long memories" instead of "people of remembrance.."

Virani is only splashing water...wants people to think he has knowledge....he is just a front who peddles what he is given, by those behind him....and then each time he gets socked, he goes back to ask his "masters" what to do and gets more "alms" also...that is is his full time work....

Thanks sister for your feedback and valuable views...

[zznoor]

I would love to read at least one aya of this so called “Qur’an with my moula” !

Ismaili Scholar like Zanewala must have one. Anything will do. From Imam No. 1 to No. 49.

[znanwalla]

zz, I too would love to show you but my hands are tied....where Allah has placed a full stop nobody can now put a question mark....you abandoned the wise ones...and so have fallen into misguidance....now you have to do with what you have....sorry pal !

Sura Ya Seen

8. Lo! We have put on their necks carcans reaching unto the chins, so that they are made stiff-necked.

9. And We have set a bar before them and a bar behind them, and (thus) have covered them so that they see not.

10. Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not, it is alike for them, for they believe not.

These two unprecedented and magnificent things, each of which is weightier than the heaven and the earth, or rather the entire universe, are the Qur'ân and its Teacher (the Imam) whom the Prophet appointed as his khalifah or successor.

It is they who are the rope of God which is stretched from the heaven to the earth to lift the people of the earth to the heaven (Sharh, X, 481)." [Source: Tawil 669: A Thousand Wisdoms]

Allah guides unto HIS Noor whomsover HE Wills...which means everyone is not entitled to it...." Verily I make thee Imam for mankind " - Abraham said:.." And of my offspring".....Allah said " Yes! but my Covenant reaches NOT the unjust ones !...so please you cannot see any ayah.....the blind and the seeing cannot be equal...truly sad but then that is how Nature wishes to operate....

[znanwalla]

06. NARRATORS

A). 110 companions of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.)
B). 84 Successors (Tabiun)
C). Over 360 scholars to the present day (Most of them are sunnies)
1: Abaqat al-Anwar a book written in Persian by Allama Mir Hamid Husayn al-Musawi (d. 1304 AH) of India. Allama Mir Hamid Husayn has devoted two bulky volumes (consisting of about 1,080 pages) on the isnad, tawatur and meaning of the hadith of Ghadir.

2: Al-Ghadir in 11 volumes in Arabic by Allama Abdul Husayn al-Amini where he gives with full references the names of 110 sahaba of the Prophet and also 84 tabi'un (disciples of the sahaba) who have narrated the hadith of Ghadir. He has also chronologically given the names of the historians, traditionists, exegesis's and poets who have mentioned the hadith of Ghadir from the first until the fourteenth Islamic century.

05. AUTHENTICITY


A). Consecutively naratted (Mutawatir)
B). Numerous Sahih versions
C). Dedicated treatisis by 26 authors (Most of them are sunnies)


04. CONTEXTS


A). QURANIC EXEGESIS (Tafsir):

O Messenger! Deliver what has been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; (AL-MAEDA/5:67)

This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; (AL-MAEDA/5:3)

The above two ayats are the final ayats which came....the scribes have wrongfully placed them in Sura 5 but they have a historical significance as they relate to Ali (as)

One demanding, demanded the chastisement which must befall, The unbelievers there is none to avert it, From Allah, the Lord of the ways of Ascent.(AL-MAARIJ/70:1-3)

B). PROPHETIC TRADITION (Hadith):

Imam Ahmad has recorded the tradition related by Bara' ibn 'Azib in his Musnad, vol.4, p. 281, transmitted through two different sources. Bara' says: "We were with the Messenger of Allah.

We alighted at Ghadir-e-Khumm. Congregational prayer was in order. An area under two trees was swept and cleaned for the Messenger of Allah, Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his posterity.

He offered midday prayers and he grasped the hand of 'Ali and said: 'Do you not know that I have superior authority over the lives of the faithful than the faithful themselves?'

'Yes you have,' they replied. He again inquired: 'Do you not know that I have superior right to the life of every believer than the believer himself?'

'Surely, you have,' they answered. Then he grasped the hand of 'Ali and said: 'Ali is the mawla of all those of whom I am mawla.

O Allah! Love him who loves him and hate him who hates him.'"

Bara' ibn 'Azib says: "Then 'Umar came to 'Ali and said: 'Congratulations to you the son of Abu Talib. You have become the mawla (master) of all the faithful men and women.'"

C). HISTORICAL REPORTS (Tarikh):

Here we will just mention one instance which took place in Kufa during the khilafah of Imam Ali (A.S.), 25 years after the Prophet's death.

When at Ali's insistence a large number of people gathered in the plain of Rahbah in Kufah, he addressed them saying:

"I administer an oath in the name of Allah to all such Muslims as heard the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) making a proclamation on the day of Ghadir-e-Khumm, to stand up and testify what they heard him say.

Only those who saw the Holy Prophet that day with their own eyes and heard the proclamation with their own ears should stand up."

Thereupon, thirty companions of the Holy Prophet(S.A.W), including twelve of those who had participated in the battle of Badr, stood up and witnessed that the Holy Prophet(S.A.W) grasped his (Ali's) hand and said to the audience:

"Do you know that I have a prior right to and superior authority over the souls (i.e., lives) of the faithful than the faithful themselves?"

"O yes!" they said. The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) then said: "He (Ali) is the mawla (i.e., has prior right to and superior authority over the lives) of all those of whom I am mawla.

O Allah, love him who loves him (Ali) and hate him who hates him."

It is logically impossible that thirty companions might have secretly agreed to speak a unanimous lie.

In addition to the thirty witnesses there were other male companions whom enmity with Ali prevented from standing up and giving their evidence as eye-witnesses, like Anas ibn Malik.

When Ali (A.S.) said to Anas:

"Why do you not stand up and testify what you heard from the messenger of Allah on the day of Ghadir?" he answered,

"O Amir al-Momineen! I have grown old and do not remember."

Thereupon Ali said: "May Allah mark you with a white spot (of leprosy) unconcealable with your turban, if you are intentionally withholding the truth.

" And before Anas got up from his place he bore a large white spot on his face. Thereafter, Anas used to say:

"I am under the curse of a righteous slave of Allah.

This incident which took place in Kufa in the year 35 A.H. has itself been narrated by four sahaba and 14 tabi'un and has been recorded in most books of history and tradition.

[zznoor]

zz, I too would love to show you but my hands are tied....

L O L

[znanwalla]

Lo !

"Seek the people of God!

Enter thou among My servants! Enter thou My Paradise! [Holy Qur'an 89:29-30].

God does not speak to everyone, just as kings of this world do not speak to every weaver.

They appoint ministers and representatives so that through them people may find the way to them.

In the same way God has singled out certain servants, so that everyone who seeks Him may find Him within them.

All the prophets have come for this reason. Only they are the Way. (F 229/237)" [Source: W. C. Chittick, The Sufi Path of Love, p.122]


The Prophet of Islam showed the people the Right way....to follow or not to follow is their own free will !

Ta'wil of word 'Ayat' (The luminous personality of the Imam in which all signs are encompassed):

"Mawlâ Ali has said:

"Anâ âyâtu'llâhi wa aminu'llâh, i.e. I am Allah's signs and I am the trustworthy of Allah." (Kawkab, p.208).

Âyât in the sense of the signs of Divine power or miracles, are in four places:

(i) The higher world, (ii) the wise Qur'ân, (iii) the external universe and (iv) the personal world, but according to the Qur'ân (36:12) all these âyât (signs) are encompassed in the light of the Imâm-i Mubin.

That is, his light is the higher world, he is the speaking Qur'ân, the quintessence of the universe and a luminious personal world in true sense." [Source: Tawil 10: A Thousand Wisdoms]

[rizwan_78]

Shiraz...

If you are truly an Ismaili, why don't you believe in what Imam is telling you when he says that the Quran has been tampered with..that is, paraphrasing Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah's farman...some verses have been added and some have been removed. For Ismailis, Imam's word is like gold...what he says goes, no question asked. So please do tell me how it is that you as an Ismaili are unwilling to believe the fact that the present textual Quran is different from the one that was revealed to the Prophet when the Imam has told you so!

Imam has not said that the entire Quran is corrupted, hence some verses we recite in our daily dua are from the Quran that you can read today, whereas other verses are not to be found in there.

Also, I remember someone posted a farman of Hazar Imam where he said to follow parts of the Quran, thus allowing us to deduct that there are some parts of the Quran that have not been tampered with.

This is as per my views...

Ya Ali Madad

[shiraz.virani]

THE QUR'AN SAYS:

"To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"

"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."

"We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."

[Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104]

do you find this in your arabic version pal?

ms.jack of all trade,master of none !

when and where did you see me mentioning anything against jews/christians ? again trying to run from the current topic ??

khair since you're soooooo dumb, you dint even cared to mention those 9 signs given by allah[swt] to musa[as], allow me to explain it for my brothers and sisters

tafsir of 17:101

And verily We gave Moses nine manifest signs, clear [signs], namely, [those of] the hand, the staff, the flood, the locusts, the lice, the frogs, the blood and the obliteration [of their possessions, cf. Q. 10:88], the years [of dearth] and scarcity of fruits [cf. Q. 7:130]. Ask, O Muhammad (s), the Children of Israel, about this (a [rhetorical] question meant as an affirmation for the idolaters of your sincerity; or [it means that] We said to him [Muhammad, s], ‘Ask’; a variant reading has the past tense [fa-sā’ala, ‘and he asked’]), when he came to them, Pharaoh said to him, ‘O Moses, I truly think that you are bewitched’, duped, your mind deceived.

tafsir of 17:102

He [Moses] said, ‘Indeed you know that none revealed these, signs, except the Lord of the heavens and the earth, as proofs, lessons; however, you are being stubborn (a variant reading [for ‘alimta, ‘you know’] has ‘alimtu [‘I know’]); and I truly think that you, O Pharaoh, are doomed’, [that you] will be destroyed — or [it, mathbūran, means that Pharaoh has been] turned away from [all deeds that are] good.

tafsir of 17:103

And he, Pharaoh, desired to scare them, to expel Moses and his people, from the land, the land of Egypt; so We drowned him and those with him, all together.

tafsir of 17:104

And after him We said to the Children of Israel, ‘Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter, namely, the Hour, comes to pass, We shall bring you [gathered] in mixed company’, all together, you and them.

sister as i said last time, quran itself was nazil in the tongue[arabic] so asking to show something in arabic is a foolish question....khair @ above is the tafsir from 17:100-104 , happy ?

It seems God wanted to give Avraham a double blessing, through Ishmael and through Isaac, and ordered that Ishmael's descendents should live in the desert of Arabia and Isaac's in Canaan.

So does then The Qur'an recognize the Land of Israel as the heritage of the Jews and it explains that, before the Last Judgment, Jews will return to dwell there. What does your arabic text say?

i would like to ask sister. zina, where jerusalem is located at.....and whats so special about jerusalem ??

if sister zina can answer it ,then the above question itself be answered for the fact that jerusalem is the holy place of alllllllllllllllllllllll the jews living on this planet, just like mecca for muslims .

try as hard as you could sister but there aren't any flaws in the quran

THE LAND OF ISRAEL IN QUR'ANIC EXEGESIS

The fundamentalist Muslim program to use Islam as an instrument for political warfare against Jews finds a major obstacle in the Qur'an itself.

What does your arabic text say?

where ???
whereeeeeeeeeeeeeee ???

Both the Bible and the Qur'an state quite clearly that the right of the Israelites to the Land of Israel does not depend on conquest and colonization. This right flows from the will of almighty God Himself....so do you agree with what the quran says?

absolutely !!!
no wonder we see more jews in israel , we see their holy jerusalem there...jews living in different countries travel israel to visit jerusalem...and so on and so forth.

you call this a flaw ????
i call it common sense !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Both the Jewish and Islamic Scriptures teach that God, through His chosen servant Moses, decided to free the offspring of Jacob from slavery in Egypt and to constitute them as heirs of the Promised Land.

Whoever claims that Jewish sovereignty over the Land of Israel is something new and rooted in human politics denies divine revelation and divine prophecy as explicitly expressed in the Quran.

and when did i said that ?????

The Qur'an relates the words by which Moses ordered the Israelites to conquer the Land:

"And [remember] when Moses said to his people: 'O my people, call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when he produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave to you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.'" [Qur'an 5:20-21]

does this appear in your text....don't try to teach me "tafsirs"...answer me !

after reading @ above i think that you think iam anti-jew.....which is totally absurd because i dont make any difference between any religion...i never cursed them or abused them....matter of fact my neighbors are jews

Moreover - and those who try to use Islam as a weapon against Israel always conveniently ignore this point - the Holy Qur'an explicitly refers to the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel before the Last Judgment - where it says:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd.'" [Qur'an 17:104]

So now what is your viewpoint? I have shown you the quranic views...

when and where did i said anything about jews ????????? again trying to change the topic ??

you're the one who talked about 9 signs but yet ignored or felt lazy to even disclose what were the signs !!!

allah[swt] did cursed them...but allah[swt] never said he wiped them out completely which means that there were people[jews] who submitted themselves to allah[swt]

jerusalem is on the the signs !!!


as i said last time sister , you dont even make sense !!

[shiraz.virani]

While the Saudis and Wahabbis like you may seek to monopolize Qur'anic interpretation among the Sunni community through the use of funding from the petro dollars, many Shi'ites reject this annotation.

Syed V. Mir Ahmed 'Ali, an Indian scholar of Arabic and Persian, has produced a translation that has become the standard Shi'ite translation

The copious instructions on Shi'ite doctrine and ritual observances ensure that the audience remains almost exclusively Shi'ite.

The translation carries gravitas that the previous Shi'ite rendition did not have, since it is written, as the term 'Syed' (or sayyid) indicates, by a descendant of Muhammad and because it includes commentary by one of the highest-ranking authorities in contemporary Shi'ism...so what are you asking foolish questions and boasting so much for?

lol..... .....sister, once again you have proved us that you know nothing !!!

can you please tell us when did this so called SYED sahebs quran was introduced ?? which year was that ?

khair, even if we agree that SYED sahebs translation is authentic lemme ask you , doe it have 114 chapters as that of present quran ????

if yes, then kindly show us the 1st aayat i.e surah fatehah of SYED sahebs interpreted quran and then v'll match it with surah fatehah of present quran


psst psst....i thought you'll show us the quran of imam e zaman [ zznoor even asked you to show one verse from imam e zamans book] and here you are showing used a translation of some SYED saheb who himself was a student of some AYATULLAH

[shiraz.virani]

zz, I too would love to show you but my hands are tied....where Allah has placed a full stop nobody can now put a question mark....you abandoned the wise ones...and so have fallen into misguidance....now you have to do with what you have....sorry pal !

Sura Ya Seen

8. Lo! We have put on their necks carcans reaching unto the chins, so that they are made stiff-necked.

9. And We have set a bar before them and a bar behind them, and (thus) have covered them so that they see not.

10. Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not, it is alike for them, for they believe not.

These two unprecedented and magnificent things, each of which is weightier than the heaven and the earth, or rather the entire universe, are the Qur'ân and its Teacher (the Imam) whom the Prophet appointed as his khalifah or successor.

It is they who are the rope of God which is stretched from the heaven to the earth to lift the people of the earth to the heaven (Sharh, X, 481)." [Source: Tawil 669: A Thousand Wisdoms]

Allah guides unto HIS Noor whomsover HE Wills...which means everyone is not entitled to it...." Verily I make thee Imam for mankind " - Abraham said:.." And of my offspring".....Allah said " Yes! but my Covenant reaches NOT the unjust ones !...so please you cannot see any ayah.....the blind and the seeing cannot be equal...truly sad but then that is how Nature wishes to operate....

you sure its your hand sister and not your neck ?? because the stiff necked right now is you and not those who believe in quran.....you're the one who is not able to swallow the fact that there is no flaws in current quran.....and if so, you fail to provide even 1 single flaw...lol

and as i said last time sister, who is following the light of allah[swt] , who is guided ....lets just leave that on allah[swt] because only he knows best !!!!!!!

psst psst surah 2:124 talks about h.ibrahim[as] and his progeny [ahle bait/descendants].....how is it even related to brother/sister zznoor.

Is brother zznoor a descendant of h.ibrahim[as] ??????? just like SYED saheb is of rasool[saw]

see !!!! this is what i call misuse of holy quran

2:124 talks about h.ibrahim[as] and how he is promoted from prophethood to imamat.....but god said this imamat he will not bestow of wrongdoes !! .....dont forget that h.ishmael[as] had soooo many descendants.

some did good and some were evil !

as you said THIS IS HOW NATURE WISHES TO OPERATE


learn the holy quran with tarjuma and only then come here and have an arguement....please dont make fool of yourself


salam

yaa ali madad

[shiraz.virani]

Lo !

"Seek the people of God!

Enter thou among My servants! Enter thou My Paradise! [Holy Qur'an 89:29-30].

God does not speak to everyone, just as kings of this world do not speak to every weaver.

They appoint ministers and representatives so that through them people may find the way to them.

In the same way God has singled out certain servants, so that everyone who seeks Him may find Him within them.

All the prophets have come for this reason. Only they are the Way. (F 229/237)" [Source: W. C. Chittick, The Sufi Path of Love, p.122]


The Prophet of Islam showed the people the Right way....to follow or not to follow is their own free will !

Ta'wil of word 'Ayat' (The luminous personality of the Imam in which all signs are encompassed):

"Mawlâ Ali has said:

"Anâ âyâtu'llâhi wa aminu'llâh, i.e. I am Allah's signs and I am the trustworthy of Allah." (Kawkab, p.208).

Âyât in the sense of the signs of Divine power or miracles, are in four places:

(i) The higher world, (ii) the wise Qur'ân, (iii) the external universe and (iv) the personal world, but according to the Qur'ân (36:12) all these âyât (signs) are encompassed in the light of the Imâm-i Mubin.

That is, his light is the higher world, he is the speaking Qur'ân, the quintessence of the universe and a luminious personal world in true sense." [Source: Tawil 10: A Thousand Wisdoms]

god does not speak to everyone ???? are you sure sister ?? khair, the quranic verse that you copy/pasted again is from the present quran[uthmanic as per you]